The Cut & Runners
D. Spencer Hines
folks told you this *before* the US went into Iraq. We destabilized
the country. We cannot fix it. There is no way short of placing
something of [sic] the order of 800,000 men into Iraq to have enough
people to patrol and protect, 24/7/365. Since that is impossible,
we have no choice but to get out and let the inevitable happen."
"We can, if we wish, take more casualties. But in the end there
*will* be civil war and the region, totally destabilized, may
come apart. Or it may not. But in any event, Iraq is lost."
Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
---------------------------------------------
The Cry of the Loon.
By:
Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Military Strategist.
Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
The American People have made the same decision.
Bless 'Em...
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Deus Vult
zzbu...@netscape.net
> "If we leave, there will be real civil war. I and several other
> folks told you this *before* the US went into Iraq. We destabilized
> the country. We cannot fix it. There is no way short of placing
> something of [sic] the order of 800,000 men into Iraq to have enough
> people to patrol and protect, 24/7/365. Since that is impossible,
> we have no choice but to get out and let the inevitable happen."
>
> "We can, if we wish, take more casualties. But in the end there
> *will* be civil war and the region, totally destabilized, may
> come apart. Or it may not. But in any event, Iraq is lost."
Well, but all that's just a partial list of the reasons the people
with actual science, engineering,
and military brains even invented Adaptive A.I,, Satellites, solar
energy, wind energy, PV Cells,
laser art, DVD, microcomputers, USB, optical computers, post-
neanderthal robotics. blogs,
and cruise missiles for the idiot sloganeers in the idiot US of
Exxon military.
Since our motto is:
"We will be not taken prisoner, and we take no prisoners".
!Jones
Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>The American People have made the same decision.
Well, son... the American People are the pampered product of 50+ years
of everything we want right when we want it. I think that America
will win if and only if victory comes at no cost, no personal
sacrifice, and, by all means, no tax increase. (Remember how the
greatful Iraqis were going to repay us with cheap oil?)
I didn't like Saddam any better than you did; I just doubted that the
American People had the sand it will take to win... and I still doubt
it.
Oh, we *can* win... if we quadruple taxes immediately, slash domestic
spending, ration gasoline, etc. That's how we survived WWII... four
gallons of gasoline per household per week and staggering taxes. Are
you kidding? There would be riots in the streets of every city.
So... since we're not willing to do what it takes to win, I say that
"cut and run" is the next best option... the third one is losing, and
I like that one less.
Jones
La N.
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:23:41 +0100, in alt.war.vietnam "D. Spencer
>
I understand that recently the Iraqi government has asked the US (and
coalition) for a firm time table of withdrawal as part of their
agreement of their - the US - staying in the country beyond this
year. Does what the Iraqis want count?
- nilita
Raymond O'Hara
"!Jones" <h...@there.org> wrote in message
news:m5o3a4t3f1lv6k56f...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:23:41 +0100, in alt.war.vietnam "D. Spencer
> Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>>The American People have made the same decision.
>
> Well, son... the American People are the pampered product of 50+ years
> of everything we want right when we want it. I think that America
> will win if and only if victory comes at no cost, no personal
> sacrifice, and, by all means, no tax increase. (Remember how the
> greatful Iraqis were going to repay us with cheap oil?)
>
oil is sold on a world wide commodies market at a world price, that is true
no matter where its pumped.
that's why speculators were able to drive the price up.
maybe if you look you'll see that, when they quote the price of oil they
don't give a country by country price.
> I didn't like Saddam any better than you did; I just doubted that the
> American People had the sand it will take to win... and I still doubt
> it.
>
> Oh, we *can* win... if we quadruple taxes immediately, slash domestic
> spending, ration gasoline, etc. That's how we survived WWII... four
> gallons of gasoline per household per week and staggering taxes. Are
> you kidding? There would be riots in the streets of every city.
>
> So... since we're not willing to do what it takes to win, I say that
> "cut and run" is the next best option... the third one is losing, and
> I like that one less.
>
> Jones
>
and what do you mean by "the sand to do it" do you mean we should act like
the nazies? because anything less than massacre and atrocity isn't goint to
cut it.
the days of acting like the dutch in the east indies, the belgians in the
congo, the british on tasmania and the germans in the balkans are over.
the truth is to "win" as you call it doesn't need a tax increase or more
troops, it just requires brutal killing and massacre to cow them into
submission
i'm sure after we killed 4 or 5 million and destroyed every town and city in
iraq they might submit.
we have the ability to do that without gas and tax increases.
but we do lack the total immorality and brutality to do it.
stick to bitching about mcdonalds and banning fast food.
Raymond O'Hara
"La N." <nilit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:caccfba9-3eae-4822...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
- nilita
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
no, and why should it? the germans and the japanese did want us in their
countries either.
we should leave because no matter when do the civil war there will happen
anyway. we can't prevent that so every soldier who does there will be a
waste,
as were all the ones who have already died there.
we should have partioned iraq into 3 prts and told the turks and persians to
go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
they are the real reason there will be a civil war, they are afraid of a
kurdish state on their borders so we keep trying to cobble together an
artificial country
that no one there wants.
D. Spencer Hines
"The Sky Is Falling!"
Hilarious!
Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
Enjoy!
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Deus Vult
Sholem Aleichem
----------------------------------------------------------
Let me be even more clear: I recognize that we've
lost in Iraq. Lost in the sense that outside of the aim
of physically removing Saddam, we've not attained *any*
of the many stated goals for the invasion.
I also recognize that it is beyond our power to put the
situation right. It's an egg. We broke it. It's gone.
And I *also* recognize that it is our duty to leave Iraq
as soon as feasible. And that means leaving while doing
the least damage to what is left of Iraq. That's hard.
It might mean leaving tomorrow or it might mean staying
for another year or more. It might mean sending *more*
troops. And it might cost enough to force even Bush to
rescind his tax cuts. But it would be the right thing
to do.
I'm old. The damage this administration has done to
the nation's finances will not be repaired in my lifetime.
I'm sorry about that. You younger folks can stop worrying
about social security and worry about the financial
integrity of the entire nation instead."
Pogue J. Gans -- 17 September 2005
-------------------------------------------------
Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Military & Financial
Strategist.
Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
And Ben Bernanke at the FED...
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke>
[Ben is far smarter than Gans, when it comes to Finance and Economics
[Harvard College A.B. Economics; MIT Ph.D. Economics]. He's also Jewish,
like Gans, but smarter on that score too -- Ben's maternal grandfather was a
professional Torah reader and Hebrew teacher -- who taught Ben, a smart
boy.]
The American People have made the same decision.
Bless 'Em...
La N
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ab-dnZbIAMXlcTzV...@rcn.net...
What's this "we should have partitioned Iraq ....". Is it "our" country to
do with as we will? Or does the country still belong to Iraqis to decide
what *they* will now that they have a "democracy".
- nilita
William Black
> we should have partioned iraq into 3 prts and told the turks and persians
> to go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
Except the Turks would win.
The US can't attack them, they're a full NATO member, and they'd mulch the
Kurds no matter what toys they were given.
Then the Sunnis would descend on the Shia, with Saudi help, and the Shia,
who would have the oil and Iran on their side, would fight back...
We can always rely on Ray to produce an unworkable solution that would
supply the maximum bloodshed, the maximum chaos and reduce the USA to a
laughing stock....
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
!Jones
O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>but we do lack the total immorality and brutality to do it.
>
>stick to bitching about mcdonalds and banning fast food.
Wow! You absolutely demolished an argument I never made... refuted a
position I never took. Did you happen to read my posting? The reason
I ask is because your replies are usually complete non sequiturs... I
honestly do not know where you come up with the ideas you attribute to
me; however, I'm certain they do *not* come from my writing.
Jones
!Jones
O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>we should have partioned iraq into 3 prts and told the turks and persians to
>go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
So... minding our own business is out of the question?
Jones
Raymond O'Hara
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:y6mok.6462$%b7.209@edtnps82...
we took it over and could easily accomplish it.
you might have noticed we destroyed the iraqi army and occupied the country
and we have created what passes for a government there.
and such actions have a long history throughout world history.
and seperating antagonistic ethnic and religious has had more success than
trying to force them together.
also, did the germans approve of partition in 1945? did anybody ask or even
care what they thought?
when the allies dismantled the austro-hungarian empire in 1918 did we ask
anybody there if they cared.
when Napoleon did away with the holy roman empire did he ask any germans for
theit opinion?
generally the side with superior firepower decides.
and the "iraqis" don't see themselves as iraqi.
it didn't work for Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia and it isn't going to work
in Iraq.
to hold such a mixed country together you need a strongman backed by guns
and a willingness to use them.
La N
Gosh. Great minds think alike ... :)
- nilita
La N
> >
> and the "iraqis" don't see themselves as iraqi.
> it didn't work for Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia and it isn't going to
> work in Iraq.
> to hold such a mixed country together you need a strongman backed by guns
> and a willingness to use them.
>
>
So dig Saddam up already and resuscitate him!
- nilita
Peter Skelton
the world has seen? Enjoy its the failure of its ill-advised
military adventurism? Enjoy it finding itself unable to take the
moral high ground it once owned almost as a matter of right?
I'd rather not.
Peter
Raymond O'Hara
we will get three countries or a new saddam.
how things will play out will be interesting because the turks and persians
fear a kurdish state because they realize it will make it impossible to keep
their kurds in check. as soon as we are gine the rival groups, sunni , shia
and kurds will get into it.
>
Raymond O'Hara
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g7sqta$glb$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ab-dnZbIAMXlcTzV...@rcn.net...
>
>> we should have partioned iraq into 3 prts and told the turks and persians
>> to go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
>
> Except the Turks would win.
>
will they win? its not 1919 where they could massacre with impunity anymore.
they will "win" like we have "won" their control will extend as far as rifle
range and no more.
> The US can't attack them, they're a full NATO member, and they'd mulch
> the Kurds no matter what toys they were given.
>
we won't attack them, we like the turks more than the kurds. but people that
don't want to be ruled won't beshort of using genocidal tactics and that
won't play very well, turkey has enough internal problems with growing
islamic fundamentalism threatening the secular government.
the chimp opened pandora's box except hope hasn't flown out. it will be a
while before things settle down
history will not view our adventure in Iraq favorably, all we need is israel
to bomb Iran and things will really explode.
> Then the Sunnis would descend on the Shia, with Saudi help, and the
> Shia, who would have the oil and Iran on their side, would fight back...
>
> We can always rely on Ray to produce an unworkable solution that would
> supply the maximum bloodshed, the maximum chaos and reduce the USA to a
> laughing stock....
>
what we have is an unworkable situation. the sunni's are going to "decend on
the shia, iran and saudi arabia will be dragged in.
there is no stopping that.
Raymond O'Hara
you mean ignoring the civil war that is going to break out. yes it would be
the best thing, let them settle it among themselves.
Raymond O'Hara
yeah. we should just say " excuse me, never mind"
i only see things getting worse.
J A
Tell us how you think Petraeus quelled the insurgency.
Tell us what you think will happen going forward.
How much do you think this has cost?
How the US has been benefited from the invasion?
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:4Hjok.733$AB3....@eagle.america.net...
Paul J Gans
You do realize that you are not only accepting my position
but are pushing it?
Hines will not be happy.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
William Black
>
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:g7sqta$glb$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ab-dnZbIAMXlcTzV...@rcn.net...
>>
>>> we should have partioned iraq into 3 prts and told the turks and
>>> persians to go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
>>
>> Except the Turks would win.
>>
>
> will they win? its not 1919 where they could massacre with impunity
> anymore.
They did last month.
They put an armoured brigade over that border and killed and looted and
burnt at random for more than a week.
The US stood back and watched the flames...
Peter Jason
Read: especially chapter IV....
http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm
Raymond O'Hara
"Peter Jason" <p...@jostle.com> wrote in message
news:U6-dnb1h4q9ptD_V...@netspace.net.au...
of course he ignores all the inconvenient facts to arriveat his positions.
!Jones
O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>of course he ignores all the inconvenient facts to arriveat his positions.
And what "positions" are these to which you refer? We can discuss the
"inconvenient facts" later; try to stick to one idea and develop that
well... you do have a tendency to ramble all over the map, you know.
Jones
!Jones
Gans <ga...@panix.com> wrote:
>Hines will not be happy.
Oh, he can always claim PTSD.
Jones
Raymond O'Hara
like the reason "alexander's conquests didn't rebel" when he died,
his conquests were divided up among his top men and all eventually fell
apart except for egypt.
greece seperated from macedonia, and the old persian empire became a pile
of small kingdoms.
the turks held their power by a ruthless and liberal use of the sword,
while in france the country has held together precisely for the things
machiavelli didn't like, the french nobles had rights
people who can exist regarless of the whim of their monarch tend to be more
loyal to the whole because it is the whole that gives them those rights.
Surreyman
> "If we leave, there will be real civil war. I and several other
> folks told you this *before* the US went into Iraq. We destabilized
> the country. We cannot fix it. There is no way short of placing
> something of [sic] the order of 800,000 men into Iraq to have enough
> people to patrol and protect, 24/7/365. Since that is impossible,
> we have no choice but to get out and let the inevitable happen."
>
> "We can, if we wish, take more casualties. But in the end there
> *will* be civil war and the region, totally destabilized, may
> come apart. Or it may not. But in any event, Iraq is lost."
>
> Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> The Cry of the Loon.
>
> By:
>
> Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Military Strategist.
>
> Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
>
> The American People have made the same decision.
>
> Bless 'Em...
> --
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
> Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
> Deus Vult
Would Pogue Hines care to detail what other future he sees for Iraq,
and how that will be expedited?
Twit.
Surreyman
D. Spencer Hines
Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
---------------------------------------------
The Cry of the Loon...
By:
Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty Military
Vincent Brannigan
> "But in any event, Iraq is lost."
>
> Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> The Cry of the Loon...
>
> By:
>
> Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty Military
> Strategist.
>
> Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
>
> The American People have made the same decision.
>
> Bless 'Em...
Bless Allah for the glorious Shiite victory
The heretics are being crushed
The American fools will pay for all
Vince
D. Spencer Hines
Yep, he's a charter member of the Cut & Run From Iraq squad.
It's DEELIGHTFUL watching them slip, sizzle and slither on the griddle of
their own prior foolish, cowardly, defeatist statements -- statements they
have never disavowed and still continue to defend.
Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
Enjoy!
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Deus Vult
Sholem Aleichem
"Vincent Brannigan" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:iAHok.721$EL2.138@trnddc01...
J A
> "But in any event, Iraq is lost."
>
> Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> The Cry of the Loon...
>
> By:
>
> Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty Military
> Strategist.
>
> Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
Maybe Petraeus should just take over the US....
Moishe Oysher
Paul J Gans
Or whatever. Basically, why do folks care? He is so stupid
that he reposts stuff that make him seem like an idiot. Let
him do it.
tankfixer
says...
>
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ab-dnZbIAMXlcTzV...@rcn.net...
> >
> > "La N." <nilit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:caccfba9-3eae-4822...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 12, 12:22 pm, !Jones <h...@there.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
> >> >The American People have made the same decision.
> >>
> > to go fuck themselves over the kurdish issue.
> > kurdish state on their borders so we keep trying to cobble together an
> > artificial country
> > that no one there wants.
> >
>
> What's this "we should have partitioned Iraq ....". Is it "our" country to
> do with as we will? Or does the country still belong to Iraqis to decide
> what *they* will now that they have a "democracy".
>
Iraq is making stumbling steps towards democracy. With luck the draw
down can continue even before the election and Obama will get what he
has been promising without having to make the hard decisions himself.
Now Iraqi democracy won't look exactly like ours, or England's or
France. Or any of the other countries that attempt to practice it.
But if they can craft something that gives each constituency a share
maybe they can find peace for the first time in 40 years.
--
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.
D. Spencer Hines
Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
---------------------------------------------
The Cry of the Misinformed, Defeatist, Pig-Ignorant and Mule-Stubborn
Loon...
By:
Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty Military
Strategist.
Frankly, I'll take the word of General David Petraeus, United States Army,
any day over that of the Cut & Runners.
D. Spencer Hines
Yep, he's a charter member of the Cut & Run From Iraq squad.
It's DEELIGHTFUL watching them slip, sizzle and slither on the griddle of
their own prior foolish, cowardly, defeatist statements -- statements they
have never disavowed and still continue to defend.
Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
Enjoy!
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Deus Vult
Sholem Aleichem
"Vincent Brannigan" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:iAHok.721$EL2.138@trnddc01...
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>> "But in any event, Iraq is lost."
>>
>> Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>> The Cry of the Misinformed, Defeatist, Pig-Ignorant
>> and Mule-Stubborn Loon...
>>
>> By:
>>
>> Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty
>> Military Strategist.
>>
>> Frankly, I'll take the word of General David Petraeus, United States
>> Army, over that of the Cut & Runners any day.
Vincent Brannigan
> Pogue Brannigan jumps right in with Pogues Gans and Surreyman...
>
> Yep, he's a charter member of the Cut & Run From Iraq squad.
>
> It's DEELIGHTFUL watching them slip, sizzle and slither on the griddle of
> their own prior foolish, cowardly, defeatist statements -- statements they
> have never disavowed and still continue to defend.
>
> Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
>
> Enjoy!
4000 American dead for a puppet government that will last as long as we
prop them up. It will be replaced by shiite fundamentalists fighing
their own domestic war with the Kurds and Sunnis
No wonder the puppet government keep the 78 billion cash on had to take
into exile
Keep reinforcing failure
Its the only way to avoid confronting the truth
Vince
!Jones
Gans <ga...@panix.com> wrote:
>why do folks care?
I am not one of these.
!Jones
<moi...@potsmail.com> wrote:
>The voices. It's the voices ...
You're just pissed because "the voices" only talk to *me*!
D. Spencer Hines
> without starting with a hen and a rooster.
>
> I'm pointing out that the egg is broken. You run around
> saying "I want your plan for fixing it!"
>
> It can't be fixed. Our only recourse is to spank the folks
> who broke it. They were warned it would break if they played
> with it.
>
> ----- Pogue J. Gans -- 3 March 2006
---------------------------------------------
The Cry of the Misinformed, Defeatist, Appeasement-Oriented, Cowardly,
Pig-Ignorant and Mule-Stubborn Loon...
Chicken-Little Rantings...
By:
Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty Military
Strategist.
Frankly, I'll take the word of General David Petraeus, United States Army,
any day...
And that of Ambassador Ryan Crocker...
Over that of Pogue Gans, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
The American People have made the same decision.
Bless 'Em...
D. Spencer Hines
wrong-headed postings.
It's hard to believe he will ever post another one as dumb as this one...
But I'm sure he'll give it the old NYU try.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
> Iraq is a broken egg. You *can't* put it back together again
> without starting with a hen and a rooster.
>
> I'm pointing out that the egg is broken. You run around
> saying "I want your plan for fixing it!"
>
> It can't be fixed. Our only recourse is to spank the folks
> who broke it. They were warned it would break if they played
> with it.
>
> ----- Pogue J. Gans -- 3 March 2006
---------------------------------------------
The Cry of the Misinformed, Defeatist, Appeasement-Oriented, Unpatriotic,
Cowardly, Pig-Ignorant, Whinging, Hand-Wringing and Mule-Stubborn Loon...
Chicken-Little Rantings At Their WORST...
Surreyman
> Pogue Brannigan jumps right in with Pogues Gans and Surreyman...
>
> Yep, he's a charter member of the Cut & Run From Iraq squad.
>
> It's DEELIGHTFUL watching them slip, sizzle and slither on the griddle of
> their own prior foolish, cowardly, defeatist statements -- statements they
> have never disavowed and still continue to defend.
>
> Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
>
> Enjoy!
> --
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
> Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
> Deus Vult
> Sholem Aleichem
>
>
> news:iAHok.721$EL2.138@trnddc01...
>
>
>
> > D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> >> "But in any event, Iraq is lost."
>
> >> Pogue J. Gans -- 18 July 2007
> >> ---------------------------------------------
>
> >> The Cry of the Loon...
>
> >> By:
>
> >> Pogue J. Gans, New York University chemist and Great Walter-Mitty
> >> Military Strategist.
>
> >> Frankly, I'll take General David Petraeus, United States Army, any day.
>
> >> The American People have made the same decision.
>
> >> Bless 'Em...
>
> > Bless Allah for the glorious Shiite victory
> > The heretics are being crushed
> > The American fools will pay for all
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Some intelligent positive contribution from you please?
Twit.
Surreyman
Surreyman
Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
moment?
Surreyman
James Hogg
<a.spe...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
>moment?
Not at all. Condi is talking tough, reminding Russia that this is
not 1968 and that you can no longer invade a country, occupy a
capital, and overthrow a government and get away with it...
(unless the country is Iraq and the invader is America, of
course).
James
Vince
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
>
>
> >Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
> >moment?
>
> Not at all. Condi is talking tough, reminding Russia that this is
> not 1968 and that you can no longer invade a country, occupy a
> capital, and overthrow a government and get away with it...
>
> (unless the country is Iraq and the invader is America, of
> course).
>
> James
What nonsense
Bush is cutting and running as fast as he can
The United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has arrived in
Tbilisi in another show of support by the US for Georgia, but also to
get President Mikheil Saakashvili to put his signature on the EU-
backed peace plan. Diplomats hope that if he signs it, it may
encourage the Russians to pull their troops out of Georgia.
Saakashvili has said he will need to take a close look at exactly what
is written on the deal. He says he agreed to the “general principles”
but sees no reason to sign it, “given it is only a political
document”. The deal, which originated in France, was shuttled between
Georgia and Russia and signed by the leaders of the two separatist
regions yesterday, before taking a detour via the south of France
where Rice met up with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
The future of the breakaway regions is no longer mentioned in the
peace plan, but those who have seen it say it is a humiliating
document for Georgia as it does not mention the country’s territorial
integrity.
http://www.euronews.net/en/article/15/08/2008/rice-arrives-in-tbilisi-on-peace-mission/
Big Hat, no cattle
Vince
James Hogg
<fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 7:01 am, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
>>
>> <a.spenc...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
>> >moment?
>>
>> Not at all. Condi is talking tough, reminding Russia that this is
>> not 1968 and that you can no longer invade a country, occupy a
>> capital, and overthrow a government and get away with it...
>>
>> (unless the country is Iraq and the invader is America, of
>> course).
>>
>> James
>
>What nonsense
SHOCK HORROR! Are you trying to tell me it's all just
hypocritical rhetorical bluster?
>Bush is cutting and running as fast as he can
>
>
>The United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has arrived in
>Tbilisi in another show of support by the US for Georgia, but also to
>get President Mikheil Saakashvili to put his signature on the EU-
>backed peace plan. Diplomats hope that if he signs it, it may
>encourage the Russians to pull their troops out of Georgia.
>Saakashvili has said he will need to take a close look at exactly what
>is written on the deal. He says he agreed to the “general principles”
>but sees no reason to sign it, “given it is only a political
>document”. The deal, which originated in France, was shuttled between
>Georgia and Russia and signed by the leaders of the two separatist
>regions yesterday, before taking a detour via the south of France
>where Rice met up with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
>
>The future of the breakaway regions is no longer mentioned in the
>peace plan, but those who have seen it say it is a humiliating
>document for Georgia as it does not mention the country’s territorial
>integrity.
>
>http://www.euronews.net/en/article/15/08/2008/rice-arrives-in-tbilisi-on-peace-mission/
>
>Big Hat, no cattle
The vaguely worded Point 5 of the peace plan allows Russian
troops to remain on Georgian soil as long as they think it is
necessary for security reasons. That's the agreement Condi wants
Saakashvili to sign.
If the Bush administration isn't trying to APPEASE Russia, they
will have to think of a different word for it.
Any experts in Newspeak here?
James
Vince
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:24:48 -0700 (PDT), Vince
> <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 15, 7:01 am, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
>>>
>>> <a.spenc...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
>>>> moment?
>>> Not at all. Condi is talking tough, reminding Russia that this is
>>> not 1968 and that you can no longer invade a country, occupy a
>>> capital, and overthrow a government and get away with it...
>>>
>>> (unless the country is Iraq and the invader is America, of
>>> course).
>>>
>>> James
>> What nonsense
>
> SHOCK HORROR! Are you trying to tell me it's all just
> hypocritical rhetorical bluster?
of course I am
But the brain dead neocons will miss the joke
vince
>
> James
William Black
"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message news:rpfpk.7$p72.5@trnddc05...
You're kidding, right?
They're already claiming victory for Bush and his 'forward policy' and
claiming that without the decisive US contribution Georgia would be once
more under the Communist... Oops, they mean Russian, heel.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Larry Swain
I saw an article yesterday that compared Bush to Truman, noting that
Truman was enormously unpopular at the time, but has gone down in
history as a good if not even great president. The article predicted
that the same would occur with Bush II.
David E. Powell
Russian army still moving despite the cease fire.
If anything they are starting to like McCain, who they consider kind
of liberal in some areas and grumbled about before, a lot more because
he has always been wary of Putin, while Bush reached out to him.
The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
done. Bush reached out to him constantly. Obama, who had big
popularity with the media the past few months, is not seen as strong
on foreign policy, and McCain can say pretty easily that this is his
power alley and that he has been talking about Putin being a problem
for years. Now he's burned GWB and handed a big issue to John McCain
to both distance himself from Obama and from G.W. Bush on the Russia
issue.
Europe was already quite wary over Putin after the assassination in
England and the attempt on the Ukranian President's life, among other
things. (Gas pipeline stuff, Russian journalist deaths, etc.) However
Bush tried to reach out to Putin the past few years and talk up a
partnership. This included Iraq and Afghanistan where both countries'
forces now use plenty of Russian gear and where Russian influence is
pretty huge. Not only is Bush upset right now but McCain is going to
be going with this. As for Obama, he may come to the conclusion that
he needs to show toughness to win more voters in the middle.
(Another interesting question: If Hillary Clinton were still in the
race I personally believe that there would be a bit of a "Thatcher
effect" and she would feel she had be a lot tougher than Obama at this
point in her rhetoric, maybe tougher than McCain, but that's just my
theory and I could be wrong. The Clintons went from skittish in
Somalia to wary in Bosnia to absolutely stone hard on Kosovo over the
years, though, so she might be really tough on Putin if she were still
running.)
Also, if Bush wants he can probably go to Iraq and Afghanistan and try
to petition them to start going to equipment made in other places than
Russia. Former WP countries, etc.
If Georgia's aircraft plant survives this, maybe Su-25s made there for
the new Iraqi air force? Polish MiG-29s? Polish and Ukranian ammo,
vehicles, choppers etc.? Money that could have gone to Russia now sent
elsewhere? There are economic ways to "vote with the pocketbook." Not
involving direct confrontation but quite effective in doing two things
at once. (Not supporting Putin, and boosting economies of allies.)
The sad irony is that the move by Russia's government may have cost
them a lot more than they ultimately may gain. There are a lot of
friendly feelings from US people to Russia built up over the last 20
years. (And they should remain so, it's the governments that are
messed up.) Russia also had a good chance at influence in Iraq and
Afghanistan which may now be a problem. Afghanistan is more of a place
they can maintain influence due to geography though. Also Bush was
apparently willing to "firewall" a bit against criticism of Putin, at
least he did so a bit in the US.
Maybe since Bush was about to leave that is one of the reasons Putin
moved. Oh well, no one can no except the Russian gov't.
But as for McCain, some of the people on the right here in the US who
weren't really rah-rah about him before are finding him a lot more
desirable right now.
William Black
"David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
> done.
The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
Georgia attacked, not Russia.
As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today which makes
any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within their
sphere of interest.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com> wrote in messagenews:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
So, being attacked justifies throwing every positive attribute to the
winds, reviving the concept of Russian soldiers as loot squads and
their negotiations as capework for destroying the other side's
infrastructure.
William Black
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:501b9cd7-ec70-42ed...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 12:26 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
>> > done.
>>
>> The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
>>
>> Georgia attacked, not Russia.
>>
>> As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
>> ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today which
>> makes
>> any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within their
>> sphere of interest.
>>
>
> winds, reviving the concept of Russian soldiers as loot squads and
> their negotiations as capework for destroying the other side's
> infrastructure.
I don't think they've revived anything.
I don't think they ever gave any of it up...
The Russians have behaved exactly the way they have always behaved.
Did anyone expect anything else?
It's like expecting US forces not to drop bombs.
The Russians are brutal, unfeeling and nasty to everyone in reach and never,
ever say sorry.
The US is nice, feels guilty about things, but still drops bombs on
innocents.
Who would you rather have?
Raymond O'Hara
"Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:QeOdneKx_LGbNDjV...@comcast.com...
>
> I saw an article yesterday that compared Bush to Truman, noting that
> Truman was enormously unpopular at the time, but has gone down in history
> as a good if not even great president. The article predicted that the
> same would occur with Bush II.
the neo-cons keep trying to make that comparison. they've also compared the
chimpler to lincoln and GW.
Raymond O'Hara
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g84anb$khp$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>> The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
>> done.
>
> The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
>
> Georgia attacked, not Russia.
>
> As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
> ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today which
> makes any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within
> their sphere of interest.
>
> --
georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
Raymond O'Hara
>
>
do you have a autographed picyure of oswald mosely
William Black
>
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:g84g6v$s8l$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>
> do you have a autographed picyure of oswald mosely
>
Oh brother do you have the wrong guy.
Mind you, your ability to draw the wrong conclusions from data received are
becoming legendary.
You're almost as bad as whoever is running US foreign policy.
John Briggs
> On Aug 15, 12:26 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
>>> done.
>>
>> The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
>>
>> Georgia attacked, not Russia.
>>
>> As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
>> ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today
>> which makes
>> any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within
>> their
>> sphere of interest.
>
> winds, reviving the concept of Russian soldiers as loot squads and
> their negotiations as capework for destroying the other side's
> infrastructure.
Which is why more effort should have been put into preventing this happening
in the first place, because the outcome was always going to be bad. A bit
like Iraq, really. Can you blame that one on the Russians?
--
John Briggs
D. Spencer Hines
Left-Wing Loons, especially my own pet loon, Pogue Gans, which made fun of
the idea that Communists were any sort of threat today.
NOW we see what an ex-KGB man has done in Georgia.
How short-sighted the Left-Wing Loons were.
Communists are still a threat in today's world -- whether they be Russian,
Chinese, Cuban, British, North Korean, Canadian, American or Venezuelan
Communists -- and any serious, intelligent, well-educated person will
recognize that primordial, undeniable fact.
D. Spencer Hines
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Larry Swain" <gi...@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:QeOdneKx_LGbNDjV...@comcast.com...
> I saw an article yesterday that compared Bush to Truman, noting that
D. Spencer Hines
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Actually the "neocons" over here are pointing out the reports of the
D. Spencer Hines
Black The Red, our crypto-communist in these newsgroups, jumps in to defend
his ideological mates -- the Russian Communists, led by ex-KGB lieutenant
colonel, Vladimir Putin.
Perfectly Predictable...
Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.
Enjoy!
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g84anb$khp$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
James Hogg
<raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:g84anb$khp$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
>>> done.
>>
>> The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
>>
>> Georgia attacked, not Russia.
>>
>> As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
>> ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today which
>> makes any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within
>> their sphere of interest.
>>
>> --
>
>
>georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
in favour of independence in 2006).
The US does not support the separatists in this case, but Russia
does (and will gladly incorporate South Ossetia and Abkhazia in
the Russian Federation).
This is the reverse of Kosovo, where the US supported the Muslim
separatists and immediately recognised Kosovo as an independent
state. Russia thought that Kosovo should remain a part of Serbia.
There's no point in looking for consistency. Both the superpowers
are prepared to encourage separatists, but never the same ones.
James
William Black
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:j_kpk.799$AB3....@eagle.america.net...
> Hilarious!
>
> Black The Red, our crypto-communist in these newsgroups, jumps in to
> defend his ideological mates -- the Russian Communists, led by ex-KGB
> lieutenant colonel, Vladimir Putin.
Communists?
How terribly 'twentieth century' of you.
James Hogg
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
>news:j_kpk.799$AB3....@eagle.america.net...
>> Hilarious!
>>
>> Black The Red, our crypto-communist in these newsgroups, jumps in to
>> defend his ideological mates -- the Russian Communists, led by ex-KGB
>> lieutenant colonel, Vladimir Putin.
>
>Communists?
>
>How terribly 'twentieth century' of you.
Hines doesn't get out of the house much. He still thinks Russia
is collective farms and five-year plans.
Putin is still a KGB thug, though. He might not use the power he
so enjoys in service of the same ideals, but his methods are the
same.
And he's been wrapping Bush around his little finger for years.
Bush has willingly adopted the role of Chamberlain (if you can
imagine Chamberlain with blank eyes too close together and an
inarticulate Texan drawl).
James
J A
I don't think we should overlook the potential for Cheney, or maybe even
Bush on his own, to do something stupid and dangerous.
This russian action does interfere with the confluence of the Cheney/Bush
oil plans and strategic plans, for US power in the region.
>
> vince
>
>
>
>>
>> James
>
>
William Black
"James Hogg" <Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7quba4l20mn0gue7f...@4ax.com...
> Putin is still a KGB thug, though. He might not use the power he
> so enjoys in service of the same ideals, but his methods are the
> same.
The methods of the Russian secret police predate the Communist regime.
La N
> <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
>>news:j_kpk.799$AB3....@eagle.america.net...
>>> Hilarious!
>>>
>>> Black The Red, our crypto-communist in these newsgroups, jumps in to
>>> defend his ideological mates -- the Russian Communists, led by ex-KGB
>>> lieutenant colonel, Vladimir Putin.
>>
>>Communists?
>>
>>How terribly 'twentieth century' of you.
>
> Hines doesn't get out of the house much. He still thinks Russia
> is collective farms and five-year plans.
>
And commies eat babies, and maybe it's time to start rooting them out of
Hollywood again. Whatever happened to the good ole Blacklist? (Wm, look -
I said *Black* list ... :)
- nilita
D. Spencer Hines
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pzopk.7412$%b7.3818@edtnps82...
tankfixer
Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com says...
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:16:26 -0400, "Raymond O'Hara"
> <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:g84anb$khp$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> >>
> >> "David E. Powell" <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote in message
> >> news:ac3f6681-4f4b-4716...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>> The timing of this may turn out to be the stupidest thing Putin has
> >>> done.
> >>
> >> The timing wasn't within Putin's gift.
> >>
> >> Georgia attacked, not Russia.
> >>
> >> As it is the timing seems to be fortuitous for the Russians as the US
> >> ratified/signed some sort of silly ABM treaty with Poland today which
> >> makes any Russian moves that appear harsh acceptable to everyone within
> >> their sphere of interest.
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >
> >georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
>
>
> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
> in favour of independence in 2006).
South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
Russia.
>
> The US does not support the separatists in this case, but Russia
> does (and will gladly incorporate South Ossetia and Abkhazia in
> the Russian Federation).
>
> This is the reverse of Kosovo, where the US supported the Muslim
> separatists and immediately recognised Kosovo as an independent
> state. Russia thought that Kosovo should remain a part of Serbia.
>
> There's no point in looking for consistency. Both the superpowers
> are prepared to encourage separatists, but never the same ones.
>
> James
>
--
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.
tankfixer
oh...@hotmail.com says...
As opposed to Ramond Ohare, who no one will ever get confused with
anything smarter than a rock.
Vince
>>>
>>> georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
>>
>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted in
>> favour of independence in 2006).
>
> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago
> from Russia.
>
This is simply nonsense
Ossetia is an ancient region and well defined region and people. They
are neither Russians nor Georgians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
Vince
tankfixer
So why would they have an affinity for Russians ?
Vince
> In article <bwppk.39$5C.8@trnddc02>, fir...@firelaw.us says...
>> tankfixer wrote:
>>
>>>>> georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted in
>>>> favour of independence in 2006).
>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago
>>> from Russia.
>>>
>> This is simply nonsense
>>
>> Ossetia is an ancient region and well defined region and people. They
>> are neither Russians nor Georgians
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
>
> So why would they have an affinity for Russians ?
>
Your enemy's enemy can be a useful ally
They just played a key role in letting Putin ream Bush out with a
crowbar. Russia can do more for them than Georgia
as the text of the agreement comes out the full extant of Bush's
humiliation will become more obvious
From the London Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4543728.ece
August 16, 2008
Georgia forced to accept a Russian occupation
Tony Halpin in Tbilisi
President Saakashvili was forced to accept defeat yesterday as he signed
a peace agreement that gives the Russian Army the right to patrol on
Georgian soil.
In a critical amendment to the ceasefire drawn up by President Sarkozy
of France, the Kremlin forced Mr Saakashvili to accept that Russian
troops could control a buffer zone of Georgian territory up to 10km
beyond the border of the breakaway region of South Ossetia.
Mr Saakashvili was humiliated further when the final text of the
agreement, delivered personally by Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of
State, removed a reference to Russian recognition of Georgia's
territorial integrity. It referred only to independence and sovereignty,
a day after Ser-gei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, said that the
world could forget about Georgia's territorial integrity.
Bush let his mouth make a promise his backbone couldn't keep
Vince
tankfixer
Makes you feel good too doesn't it Vince ?
Doesn't matter that people got hurt to make you feel good now does it ?
La N
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
news:MPG.230fdd814...@nntp.earthlink.net...
People got hurt to make Vince feel good? How *do* you make these loco leaps
of logic, Tanky?
- nilita
tankfixer
says...
He seems to champion anything that makes the US look bad.
I doubt anyone could have prevented this whole mess from happening.
Vince
Makes me feel terrible that real Americans voted for this idiot
everyone will suffer at the hands of the Russian thugs
but loyal bushies will blame anyone else
vince
tankfixer
So how do you feel about Carter and Iran ?
Vince
Vince
D. Spencer Hines
OR Republican, it would not be a Good Thing for ANY American, in the long
run -- OR for the United States.
Pogue Brannigan doesn't seem to have a clue about those indubitable FACTS.
But, in common with many Democrats, Pogue Brannigan HATES President Bush SO
much because of his wins in 2000 and 2004 Brannigan simply doesn't CARE if
he damages the United States in the process of trying to see George Walker
Bush "reamed" and "humiliated".
Sad...
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:c0qpk.42$5C.33@trnddc02...
> They just played a key role in letting Putin ream Bush out with a crowbar.
> Russia can do more for them than Georgia
>
> as the text of the agreement comes out the full extant [sic] of Bush's
> humiliation will become more obvious
> Bush let his mouth make a promise his backbone couldn't keep
>
> Vince
Vince
> IF ANY American President were to be "reamed" and/or "humiliated", Democrat
> OR Republican, it would not be a Good Thing for ANY American, in the long
> run -- OR for the United States.
>
> Pogue Brannigan doesn't seem to have a clue about those indubitable FACTS.
>
> But, in common with many Democrats, Pogue Brannigan HATES President Bush SO
> much because of his wins in 2000 and 2004 Brannigan simply doesn't CARE if
> he damages the United States in the process of trying to see George Walker
> Bush "reamed" and "humiliated".
>
> Sad...
The fact that bozo Bush is an idiot is a tragedy for America
The public humiliation is a fact
anyone who supported this idiot should hang his head in shame and
apologize to those of us who have been pointing out for years what a
disaster he is
Otherwise you are just a partisan America hater
Vince
Larry Swain
> In article <bwppk.39$5C.8@trnddc02>, fir...@firelaw.us says...
>
>>tankfixer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
>>>>
>>>>That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted in
>>>>favour of independence in 2006).
>>>
>>>South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago
>>>from Russia.
>>>
>>
>>This is simply nonsense
>>
>>Ossetia is an ancient region and well defined region and people. They
>>are neither Russians nor Georgians
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
>
>
> So why would they have an affinity for Russians ?
>
Because Russia has kept them out of Georgia......
Larry Swain
> In article <bwppk.39$5C.8@trnddc02>, fir...@firelaw.us says...
>
>>tankfixer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>georgia "attacked" georgia not russia.
>>>>
>>>>That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted in
>>>>favour of independence in 2006).
>>>
>>>South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago
>>>from Russia.
>>>
>>
>>This is simply nonsense
>>
>>Ossetia is an ancient region and well defined region and people. They
>>are neither Russians nor Georgians
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
>
>
> So why would they have an affinity for Russians ?
>
I had meant to include in my response this blog post from historian Jeff
Spycek: http://www.quidplura.com/?p=209
Larry Swain
DOn't forget that North Ossetia is in Russia, a split homeland usually
wants to unite under a single banner, and if not their own, the one that
has been friendliest to them. In this case, the Russians.
Larry Swain
> IF ANY American President were to be "reamed" and/or "humiliated", Democrat
> OR Republican, it would not be a Good Thing for ANY American, in the long
> run -- OR for the United States.
>
> Pogue Brannigan doesn't seem to have a clue about those indubitable FACTS.
>
> But, in common with many Democrats, Pogue Brannigan HATES President Bush SO
> much because of his wins in 2000 and 2004 Brannigan simply doesn't CARE if
> he damages the United States in the process of trying to see George Walker
> Bush "reamed" and "humiliated".
>
> Sad...
Two things, I completely agree with the first paragraph.....and
completely disagree with the third. GW Bush has been reamed and
humiliated in this situation, and the only thing he can do is spout
hypocrisy and saber rattle....because of our military commitments in
Iraq and our current poor position in the world economy, we can do
nothing to give Russia any incentives for not simply retaking Georgia
and annexing it. We can condemn it, we can stamp our feet, but as a
direct result of Bush's policies and decisions, the US is humiliated and
powerless in this situation. Has nothing to do with being "democrat" or
hating Bush....
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen
news:fMspk.26$482.11@trnddc06...
>> So how do you feel about Carter and Iran ?
>>
> Carter handled a difficult problem badly
Well he did attempt to solve the problem militarily - didn't he ?
The Reagan administration then resolved the situation by bribing the
Iraniens by giving them
US military hardware.
Sure, the rescue operation ended really badly, but it was attempted.
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen,
Love me ! - Take me as I think I am
Surreyman
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
>
> <a.spenc...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, doesn't Bush appear to be trying 'appeasment' in Georgia at the
> >moment?
>
> Not at all. Condi is talking tough, reminding Russia that this is
> not 1968 and that you can no longer invade a country, occupy a
> capital, and overthrow a government and get away with it...
>
> (unless the country is Iraq and the invader is America, of
> course).
>
> James
Er ... Bush has said that no military forces will come in.
And the Russians are still advancing to within 20 miles of Tblisi
(according to UK news a.m. Saturday).
I'm sure the Russians are really scared by now.
Surreyman
Vincent
Reagan also handled Iran badly but so did every US president
Vince
John Briggs
The one person who could have prevented it was George W. Bush.
--
John Briggs
John Briggs
> Carl Alex Friis Nielsen wrote:
>> "Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:fMspk.26$482.11@trnddc06...
>>
>>>> So how do you feel about Carter and Iran ?
>>>>
>>> Carter handled a difficult problem badly
>>
>> Well he did attempt to solve the problem militarily - didn't he ?
>>
>> The Reagan administration then resolved the situation by bribing the
>> Iraniens by giving them
>> US military hardware.
>>
>> Sure, the rescue operation ended really badly, but it was attempted.
>
George Bush Sr was particularly culpable as Director of the CIA.
--
John Briggs
Jack Linthicum
> > says...
>
> >> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.230fdd814...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> >>> In article <c0qpk.42$5C.33@trnddc02>, fire...@firelaw.us says...
> >>>> tankfixer wrote:
> >>>>> In article <bwppk.39$5C.8@trnddc02>, fire...@firelaw.us says...
All of that looking into Putin's eyes, bullshitting Saakashvilli, dumb
speech in Tbilisi, jawing with Putin in Beijing, The usual drugstore
cowboy act with no idea that he is not impressing anyone. That, and
the seeming assumption of the role of President by both major
candidates makes the rest of the world think we have lost our
intellectual capacity.
William Black
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>
> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
> Russia.
The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past 40
years.
It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Don T
>
> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.230fbb956...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepql...@4ax.com>,
>> Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>
>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>
>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>> Russia.
>
> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past
> 40 years.
>
> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>
> --
> William Black
>
You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor serfs.
Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of honest
Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just as they
tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
Vince
Loyal Bushies always blame the boy who points out the Emperor has no
clothes. Bush is simply out of his league, as is Rice. It will be very
interesting one day to read the opinion of the career ambassador to
Georgia John F. Tefft, who is one of the USA's most experienced career
diplomats and has not been heard from in this crisis
The reality is The Russians have a long history of imperialism and
autocratic rule. I always remember the lines from the GODFATHER part
whatever
Michael Corleone: C'mon Frankie... my father did business with Hyman
Roth, he respected Hyman Roth.
Frank Pentangeli: Your father did business with Hyman Roth, he
respected Hyman Roth... but he never *trusted* Hyman Roth!
Putin is a vicious master of an incredibly ancient Kremlin power game
You can sometimes do business with such, but never never trust them
Vince
Vince
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:g86ihk$cj4$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.230fbb956...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepql...@4ax.com>,
>>> Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>
>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>
>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>>> Russia.
>>
>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the
>> past 40 years.
>>
>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>
> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just
> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>
Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
Vince
La N
Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!
- nilita
Peter Skelton
La N
"Peter Skelton" <skel...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:90pda4tga6flkspji...@4ax.com...
Yee Haw!
- nilita