PBS Series: "The Carrier"
La N
called THE CARRIER, and they gave the website as www.pbs.org/carrier With
the few preview peeks they gave, it seemed like it would be good dramatic
watching.
In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
Making the film CARRIER required 17 filmmakers to take a six-month journey
aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz during its deployment to the Gulf in
support of the Iraq War. They disembarked from Coronado, California on May
7, 2005 and returned there November 8, 2005 with stops at Pearl Harbor, Hong
Kong, Guam, Kuala Lumpur, Bahrain and Perth, Australia.
The trip proved an evolution for the film crew who spent the early weeks
trying to find their place while the 5,000 sailors and Marines around them
were too busy to take notice. Eventually, the film crew discerned the ebb
and flow of life on a carrier, and began to feel more at home on board. The
ship's crew not only accepted them but also took a vested interest in the
project, making suggestions on the best places to film and providing access
to missions that helped capture the full experience of the deployment.
Jammed into their own staterooms, the crew that once felt apart now felt
kinship as they shared both trepidation and jubliation awaiting the safe
return of the carrier's jet fighters. When the huge emotional surge of
seeing home hit in November, the filmmakers knew how the Nimitz crew must
feel. But back on land, their own mission of editing and production
continued for nearly three more years before the film CARRIER docked at PBS
on April 27, 2008.
Episode Descriptions
Addressing larger themes as family, faith, discipline, patriotism,
love and war, the rites of passage and the war on terror, the series closely
follows a core of characters, from the Admiral of the fleet to the elite
fighter pilots to the lowliest scrubs.
Director's Diary
Maro Chermayeff, director of CARRIER, describes how she captured the
unique experience of living on a ship for six months. To do that, Chermayeff
shaped each episode in the series into a specific theme, finding members of
the Nimitz crew whose personal stories and ship duties fit the topic.
Scout Diary
Directors Maro Chermayeff and Deborah Dickson and Consulting Producer
Michael Polaire visited the Nimitz twice to learn how best to capture the
story. They recount their findings in this day-to-day diary from February
and March of 2005.
Making of CARRIER
Seven members of the documentary crew that helped bring a very
intimate and revealing look at life in the Navy share their personal moments
from their time aboard the Nimitz.
Music in the Film
Discover the music that introduces a scene, establishes the mood or
provides background for every episode.
Grey Satterfield
<nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just saw a commercial on TV (which I rarely watch) about a new PBS series
> called THE CARRIER, and they gave the website as www.pbs.org/carrier With
> the few preview peeks they gave, it seemed like it would be good dramatic
> watching.
>
> In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
[Series details snipped.]
High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the opening
episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has been very
interesting.
NIMITZ was the ship that the two Russian aircraft flew over last February,
although that happed long after the events depicted in the series, which
were filmed in 2005.
Anyway, it's off to a good start. Highly recommended.
Grey Satterfield
La N
"Grey Satterfield" <gsatte...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:C43B25FD.5025%gsatte...@cox.net...
Good to see you, Grey! I've asked about you from time to time. Glad my
troll^^^posting of this series brought you back ... :)
- nilita, who will probably have to catch the reruns or rent the DVD when it
is released ...
Fred J. McCall
:On 4/27/08 11:32 AM, in article wU1Rj.2517$PM5.393@edtnps92, "La N"
:
It's ALIVE!
<insert insane laughter>
Oh, wait. Wrong place.
Welcome back, Grey. :-)
Jim Yanik
first two parts ran last night.
tonight is "Super Secrets" and "Squared Away";scandal alters the lives of
two sailors and in Guam,a sailor gets forced out of the Navy.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Jack Linthicum
> Grey Satterfield <gsatterfi...@cox.net> wrote innews:C43B25FD.5025%gsatte...@cox.net:
>
>
>
> > On 4/27/08 11:32 AM, in article wU1Rj.2517$PM5.393@edtnps92, "La N"
>
> >> I just saw a commercial on TV (which I rarely watch) about a new PBS
> >> series called THE CARRIER, and they gave the website as
> >>www.pbs.org/carrier With the few preview peeks they gave, it
> >> seemed like it would be good dramatic watching.
>
> >> In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
>
> >>http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
>
> > [Series details snipped.]
>
> > High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the
> > opening episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has
> > been very interesting.
>
> > NIMITZ was the ship that the two Russian aircraft flew over last
> > February, although that happed long after the events depicted in the
> > series, which were filmed in 2005.
>
> > Anyway, it's off to a good start. Highly recommended.
>
> > Grey Satterfield
>
> first two parts ran last night.
> tonight is "Super Secrets" and "Squared Away";scandal alters the lives of
> two sailors and in Guam,a sailor gets forced out of the Navy.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net
Note, in the rest of the Navy the bad apples get sent to aircraft
carriers, it would seem if you are a bad apple on a CV it's up and out.
BlackBeard
> On 4/27/08 11:32 AM, in article wU1Rj.2517$PM5.393@edtnps92, "La N"
>
> > I just saw a commercial on TV (which I rarely watch) about a new PBS series
> > the few preview peeks they gave, it seemed like it would be good dramatic
> > watching.
>
> > In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
>
> >http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
>
> [Series details snipped.]
>
> High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the opening
> episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has been very
> interesting.
>
> NIMITZ was the ship that the two Russian aircraft flew over last February,
> although that happed long after the events depicted in the series, which
> were filmed in 2005.
>
> Anyway, it's off to a good start. Highly recommended.
>
> Grey Satterfield
Nice to see you are still around Grey, you've been missed.
BB
I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...
Paul J. Adam
<gsatte...@cox.net> writes
>High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the opening
>episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has been very
>interesting.
Good to hear from you, Grey!
Haven't seen word of this show in the UK yet. On the other hand I got
out to the HARRY S TRUMAN recently and that *was* worth seeing. Amazing
how that deck can look so big and spacious between cycles... and so
small and cramped when it's working...
--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides
paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
Weatherlawyer
> I just saw a commercial on TV (which I rarely watch) about a new PBS series
> the few preview peeks they gave, it seemed like it would be good dramatic
> watching.
>
> In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
>
> return of the carrier's jet fighters. When the huge emotional surge of
> feel. But back on land, their own mission of editing and production
> continued for nearly three more years before the film CARRIER docked at PBS
> on April 27, 2008.
>
> Episode Descriptions
> Addressing larger themes as family, faith, discipline, patriotism,
> love and war, the rites of passage and the war on terror, the series closely
> follows a core of characters, from the Admiral of the fleet to the elite
> fighter pilots to the lowliest scrubs.
Shouldn't that last bit read: ...war of terror?
Or is there more to the 3 years careful editing than meets the aye?
Tiger
Saw the shows last night. Quite a Documentry & rather personal in detail
in the lives of the crew. Frankly too damn personal. The Goofoff/ racist
guy should have never made it past a recruiters desk. The Guy was just
there for the check. A bad attiude & a drunk makes for a bad sailor. As
for the ammo handler/sex advice guy? Good way to screw up a career with
a one night stand in Hong Kong. Lucky the Girl dismissed the rape stuff
rather than cover her ass. SAdly I see Navy females have not immproved
much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the bunch.....
Grey Satterfield
e9a2c870-bc00-4a86...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, "Jack
Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Note, in the rest of the Navy the bad apples get sent to aircraft
> carriers, it would seem if you are a bad apple on a CV it's up and out.
Jack -- I am so far removed from the present day Navy I don't know what the
answer is these days but what you said was once very true, especially during
Viet Nam. A guy who was a hot running captain aviator got the Holy Grail, a
CVA command in the '60s. He was the brother of a woman who was distantly
related to me by marriage. Unfortunately, there was a race riot aboard,
which resulted in some injuries, so he not only never achieved flag rank, he
was relived of command and retired. Like Barry Switzer said, "It's just a
short walk from the palace to the outhouse."
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's ALIVE!
>
> <insert insane laughter>
>
> Oh, wait. Wrong place.
>
> Welcome back, Grey. :-)
Fred! I can't tell you how good it is to hookup with some of my crazy
friends. I figured this thread would be as likely a place as any to avoid
partisan political rants.
I have only watched Sunday night's episodes but plan on seeing the next two
sometime today. I noticed that the NIMITZ's XO was an O-6. This makes me
suspect that he must have been on the cusp of being reassigned. I wonder if
the CO made O-7, a lot of the guys who get commands as prestigious as CO of
the NIMITZ do.
Carrier reminded me of just how dangerous and intense every aspect of
carrier deck ops is. My God! Everybody involved, from the pilots to the E3s
on the deck, routinely risk their lives, sometimes for 18 hours a day. Even
in daylight it's hairy but night landing evolutions have to be seen to be
believed. Jesus! It's a hard, dangerous way to make a living.
Going to sea had its moments but, I confess, I never fell in love with 6
month deployments -- and I didn't have to contend with carrier decks.
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
49edffae-8c06-43b4...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
"BlackBeard" <spk...@msn.com> wrote:
> Nice to see you are still around Grey, you've been missed.
>
> BB
>
> I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
> It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...
Sean -- Thanks, it's good to be seen, not to mention to be upright and
taking nourishment at my age. :)
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
J. Adam" <ne...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <C43B25FD.5025%gsatte...@cox.net>, Grey Satterfield
> <gsatte...@cox.net> writes
>> High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the opening
>> episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has been very
>> interesting.
>
> Good to hear from you, Grey!
>
> Haven't seen word of this show in the UK yet. On the other hand I got
> out to the HARRY S TRUMAN recently and that *was* worth seeing. Amazing
> how that deck can look so big and spacious between cycles... and so
> small and cramped when it's working...
Paul -- I hope Blighty gets the show before too long. It's very interesting
and, I think it would be in your wheelhouse.
Grey Satterfield
Derek Lyons
>On 4/28/08 9:13 AM, in article
>e9a2c870-bc00-4a86...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, "Jack
>Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Note, in the rest of the Navy the bad apples get sent to aircraft
>> carriers, it would seem if you are a bad apple on a CV it's up and out.
>
>Jack -- I am so far removed from the present day Navy I don't know what the
>answer is these days but what you said was once very true, especially during
>Viet Nam.
It was still true in the 80's - and from what rumblings and rumours I
hear this is still true today.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Jack Linthicum
>
> Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Note, in the rest of the Navy the bad apples get sent to aircraft
> > carriers, it would seem if you are a bad apple on a CV it's up and out.
>
> Jack -- I am so far removed from the present day Navy I don't know what the
> answer is these days but what you said was once very true, especially during
> Viet Nam. A guy who was a hot running captain aviator got the Holy Grail, a
> CVA command in the '60s. He was the brother of a woman who was distantly
> related to me by marriage. Unfortunately, there was a race riot aboard,
> which resulted in some injuries, so he not only never achieved flag rank, he
> was relived of command and retired. Like Barry Switzer said, "It's just a
> short walk from the palace to the outhouse."
>
> Grey Satterfield
My experience was based on an investigation I did on an attempted
suicide. They sent him to a CV.
Where my OCS class went bananas was the aviator assigned to get "deep
draft" experience on an AP or AO and treating it like an entrance exam
to join a drinking club. Jgs sweating arrivals while the "CO" was
drinking coffee and talking on the port radio with one of his friends.
Later great elation when the aviator's CV went aground on an
"uncharted reef" inside Subic Bay.
Jim Yanik
> Carrier reminded me of just how dangerous and intense every aspect of
> carrier deck ops is. My God! Everybody involved, from the pilots to
> the E3s on the deck, routinely risk their lives, sometimes for 18
> hours a day. Even in daylight it's hairy but night landing evolutions
> have to be seen to be believed. Jesus! It's a hard, dangerous way to
> make a living.
>
> Going to sea had its moments but, I confess, I never fell in love with
> 6 month deployments -- and I didn't have to contend with carrier
> decks.
>
> Grey Satterfield
>
>
watching how long and hard the crew work made me glad I joined the US Air
Force.
Mark Borgerson
says...
Mark Borgerson
Jim Yanik
news:MPG.228106c47...@newsgroups.comcast.net:
I had heard they get better looking the longer they're at sea..... 8-)
>>
>>
> Did you miss the part where they were talking to the female pilot?
she was OK by me.
>
>
> Mark Borgerson
>
>
I note they never touched upon how many sailors got pregnant on the
cruise.I was also pissed that the sailor with the toothache was skipped
while the officer got his teeth cleaning,after arriving later than the
sailor.
One thing bothering me;a lot of crew,even the Captain,had skin rashes on
their faces,arms,etc. Is that common on a ship?
Mark Borgerson
says...
The part where one of the female sailors got pulled off the flight deck
to spend some weeks TAD cleaning the heads for the female officers and
chiefs brought back memories. One of my main incentives to make
E4 and then E5 was to get past detours like that. Just when I thought
I had it made, I ended up at OCS and graduated to SLJOJs (Shitty Little
Junior Officer Jobs).
I wonder if "Carrier" will tell us about the joys of being the air wing
crypto custodian, or the engineering representative on the United
Way committee.
Mark Borgerson
dott.Piergiorgio
> I have only watched Sunday night's episodes but plan on seeing the next two
> sometime today. I noticed that the NIMITZ's XO was an O-6. This makes me
> suspect that he must have been on the cusp of being reassigned. I wonder if
> the CO made O-7, a lot of the guys who get commands as prestigious as CO of
> the NIMITZ do.
mmm.... Yamatos was smaller and has roughly half the crew (3000+) and
the CO of both Y & M was an Rear-Admiral; I guess that there's not much
reasons against an rear admiral, even upper half, in command of a CVN, IMHO.
Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
dott.Piergiorgio
curiously, I was reading about this sort of thing just yesterday
night.... You refer to this: ?
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm
dott.Piergiorgio
> SAdly I see Navy
>>> females have not immproved much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the
>>> bunch.....
>
> I had heard they get better looking the longer they're at sea..... 8-)
Perhaps they (the females) join the Navy because of this ;) )
Strangely there's no heard of incidents or pregnancies in the Marina
Militare Italiana, notwhistanding the most favorable conditions ever
(100% latin crews & females of more than above average quality... ;) )
Grey Satterfield
47f97985-8b3c-4017...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Jack
Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> My experience was based on an investigation I did on an attempted
> suicide. They sent him to a CV.
>
> Where my OCS class went bananas was the aviator assigned to get "deep
> draft" experience on an AP or AO and treating it like an entrance exam
> to join a drinking club. Jgs sweating arrivals while the "CO" was
> drinking coffee and talking on the port radio with one of his friends.
> Later great elation when the aviator's CV went aground on an
> "uncharted reef" inside Subic Bay.
Naval aviators who get deep draft commands have never had much of a
reputation as shiphandlers. I assume though, that Captain Ted Branch,
NIMITZ's CO during the deployment which was the subject of this series,
avoided trouble as he later attained flag rank:
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=397
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
MPG.228106c47...@newsgroups.comcast.net, "Mark Borgerson"
<mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
SAdly I see Navy females have not immproved
>> much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the bunch.....
>>
>>
> Did you miss the part where they were talking to the female pilot?
Absolutely right! That was one good looking young young aviator.
On another topic, I don't know how much many of you know about Jay,
Oklahoma, where the redneck kid who got in trouble for racism came from. It
is in far northeastern Oklahoma, in the Cookson Hills area, near the
Arkansas border. It is so remote that there used to be a joke that you had
to have a visa to go there. The kid wasn't a rocket scientist but when you
consider how remote where he came from is, it's a little less surprising
than it might otherwise have been.
TMOliver
"Grey Satterfield" <gsatte...@cox.net> wrote...
The series was better than I expected, although ignoring the ship's company
officers except for the CO and XO (and air department pukes) seems a
damaging omission. Obviously, CIC was largely off limits due to posted
info/status boards/etc., and Main Control still out of bounds due to
classification issues a bit silly in today's world, but the Bridge and the
interplay there (especially entering leaving port/replenishing and a dozen
other evolutions would have added a bit of punch. I was not greatly
impressed by the CO or XO, sort of characterless talking heads except when
the XO revealed his insecurity by losing his cool over an unfound sailor
during a suspected man overboard. That's one a good XO handles over the
phone with the Division Officer and later in private. Some of the "girls"
were better looking than I expected, and how are you going to keep'em down
on the farm if they want to go to sea?
I agree with the comments on the bad sailor.. I hope more noticed that the
kid's racism surfaced when in contact with AfricanAmericans/others not among
fellow E3s and below in his own small (and quite integrated) division. His
racism, expectable for one reared in Jay or similar communities more
manifests itself as a classic xenophobia, the redneck disease, much
aggravated by what is likely already a well developed long jump down the
road to alcoholism.
I've commanded all too many sailors who fell into this category, both on
active duty and the reserves. They don't acclimate and improve as mess
cooks or compartment cleaners, are inevitably in trouble in foreign ports,
and would never admit that the prospect of discharge under less than
honorable conditions caused them any apprehension. Chances are, they spend
the rest of their lives as "outs", rarely if ever encountering a place to
"fit". The same perspective may be found among sailors from S. Boston,
Queens, New Jersey, and any one of several Southern states. The worst case
I remember was from Idaho.
Biggest disappointment? Other than aviators aviating, it showed little of
the interaction between senior officers/department heads and junior
officers, and revealed even less of junior officers "working" in their
dealings with CPOs, LPOs and other senior POs. As an ensign/young OI
division officer my superiors, the CIC and OPS officers expected me to
regularly visit the berthing compartment (never w/o the Chief or LPO) to
either formally inspect or monitor, and to spend time every day with my
senior POs along with holding regular "Office Hours"
(disciplinary/motivational/complimentary/critical/fucking exasperated) for
the sailors
I returned from a week + on the road, some business, some pleasure, but 2500
miles of driving with a couple of 650 mile days, harder now than when young,
over in the mountains of North Carolina to find little changed, although the
discussion of "Carrier" does represent some grasp at tenuous reality and
naval subject matter.
Welcome back, Grey.
TMO
o...@uakron.edu
have made it to TV. The girl going on bread and water for sneaking
booze aboard was a bit better story.
If we have any aviators here, what was the new fangled flight helmet
that looked to have a projection display inside the visor. They showed
several pilots wearing/talking about it, but no techie details. I
hope they take us more into the engineering spaces.
Steve Roberts
Fred J. McCall
:On 4/28/08 8:50 AM, in article mflb14d4ffl65sdpb...@4ax.com,
:
We were just discussing this in a review meeting this morning. A
couple of friends of mine (retired O-5 aviator types) opined that it
was quite a good series. I'm starting to feel like I need to order
the thing on DVD in order to see it from the beginning. I gather from
what was said that the price is actually pretty reasonable ($40 or
something like that for the entire series).
--
You have never lived until you have almost died.
Life has a special meaning that the protected
will never know.
Fred J. McCall
:In article <48172D9A...@hotmail.com>, Lana_...@hotmail.com
:says...
:>
:> rather than cover her ass. SAdly I see Navy females have not immproved
:> much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the bunch.....
:>
:
:Did you miss the part where they were talking to the female pilot?
:
I've actually known a few of those over the years and they've been
uniformly attractive.
Unfortunately, I can't speak to whether they're equally attractive
sans uniform. ;-)
--
"Adrenaline is like exercise, but without the excessive gym fees."
-- Professor Walsh, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
Fred J. McCall
:
:One thing bothering me;a lot of crew,even the Captain,had skin rashes on
Not that I ever noticed, but then I didn't ride bird farms.
You sure it wasn't just sunburn or some such?
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
Andrew Venor
The only engineering spaces I've seen on the show so far was damage
control central and one of the emergency diesel generator room. While
would like to see more of the reactor spaces too, I expect that's all we
will see down there.
ALV
Fred J. McCall
:
:If I were a officer, and were that kid's division officer, he wouldnt
I haven't seen the show, but it was probably the HTS (Helmet Targeting
System) for the Hornet (I believe the actual designation for the thing
may be JHMCS - Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System - but I've never
heard anyone call it that).
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
Al Dykes
You can stream it on the tiny screen,
http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/full_episodes.htm
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail
Mark Borgerson
fmc...@earthlink.net says...
> Mark Borgerson <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> :In article <48172D9A...@hotmail.com>, Lana_...@hotmail.com
> :says...
> :>
> :> rather than cover her ass. SAdly I see Navy females have not immproved
> :> much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the bunch.....
> :>
> :
> :Did you miss the part where they were talking to the female pilot?
> :
>
> I've actually known a few of those over the years and they've been
> uniformly attractive.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't speak to whether they're equally attractive
> sans uniform. ;-)
>
>
military gatherings, is that the aviator's spouses are
uniformly more attractive. That may be because I'm old, male,
and straight. ;-)
Mark Borgerson
Jeff Crowell
Welcome back, young man!
> On another topic, I don't know how much many of you know about Jay,
> Oklahoma, where the redneck kid who got in trouble for racism came from.
> It
> is in far northeastern Oklahoma, in the Cookson Hills area, near the
> Arkansas border. It is so remote that there used to be a joke that you
> had
> to have a visa to go there. The kid wasn't a rocket scientist but when
> you
> consider how remote where he came from is, it's a little less surprising
> than it might otherwise have been.
It seemed to me that he was milking it for all he was worth as a quick
way to get out. No great loss to the good old USN! It also seemed
as if the guys who worked with him got along with him just fine--or at
least, they said they did for the benefit of the cameras.
What has really struck me throughout the show to date is the backstories
of so many of these kids. Their upbringing is enough to make your ears
bleed--drugs, alcoholism, abuse, etc., not to mention last night's episode
with the sergeant whose parents were carnies and left him with "Uncle
Bob" when the carny pulled out of town, wow. Yet for most of them the
service has become their home and their divisional buddies their families;
they are busting their guts to become good, productive people and
members of society. It's one of the aspects of the service which never
gets adequately recognized. ISTM that this is not necessarily what you
want for a mission for your military, but for these people it is a
life-changing,
very positive process.
I, too, would like to see an ep dedicated to the interplay between
the chiefs, LPOs, and JOs. All we have gotten so far is junior enlisteds
giving with the old familiar: "Officers don't work, they don't do anything,"
or griping because some guy in khaki got ahead of them in line. OTOH
this is apparently a pretty common idea--a former Army co-worker and
I were talking about the show yesterday, and he was amazed to discover
that the pilots and aircrew also have "real jobs", stand duty, etc. I went
to
some length to explain his error!
Jeff
Jim Yanik
news:rlhf141nrk5oqkhoo...@4ax.com:
> Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>:
>:One thing bothering me;a lot of crew,even the Captain,had skin rashes on
>:their faces,arms,etc. Is that common on a ship?
>:
>
> Not that I ever noticed, but then I didn't ride bird farms.
>
> You sure it wasn't just sunburn or some such?
>
it didn't look like sunburn.
Parts of their face that would have been sunburned were white,and parts red
like a rash,even the people down in the bowels of the ship.
Jack Linthicum
I detect a certain Hollywoodeness in these back stories. Mayhap they
searched out the saddest tales of the 5,000 or so, just as they seem
to have found a number of people who have no idea why there is a war
in Iraq. The only "real" guy seemed to be the Cdr from a family with a
Navy history who said if the President says do it I do it. I have been
gone too long from the day to day and never spent more than a few days
on an aircraft carrier.
I remember one of the people who used to do the carrier transfers from
Westpac telling of walking down a passageway and saying "I smell
Phillapine pussy". Several days later they found two broads in a space
on that passageway. Only on a carrier.
Fred J. McCall
:In article <p4hf14dg3pdn4vt1v...@4ax.com>,
:
You seem somewhat confused. Note that we were talking about *female*
pilots.
We'll now leave you so you can worry about your inadvertent admission
about your attraction to the spouses of female pilots...
--
"So many women. So little charm."
-- Donna, to Josh; The West Wing
Mark Borgerson
> Mark Borgerson <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> :In article <p4hf14dg3pdn4vt1v...@4ax.com>,
> :fmc...@earthlink.net says...
> :> Mark Borgerson <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
> :>
> :> :In article <48172D9A...@hotmail.com>, Lana_...@hotmail.com
> :> :says...
> :> :>
> :> :> rather than cover her ass. SAdly I see Navy females have not immproved
> :> :> much in 20 years. NOT a Looker in the bunch.....
> :> :>
> :> :
> :> :Did you miss the part where they were talking to the female pilot?
> :> :
> :>
> :> I've actually known a few of those over the years and they've been
> :> uniformly attractive.
> :>
> :> Unfortunately, I can't speak to whether they're equally attractive
> :> sans uniform. ;-)
> :>
> :
> :My impression, garnered around the hotel pool in Yuma during various
> :military gatherings, is that the aviator's spouses are
> :uniformly more attractive. That may be because I'm old, male,
> :and straight. ;-)
> :
>
> You seem somewhat confused. Note that we were talking about *female*
> pilots.
>
> We'll now leave you so you can worry about your inadvertent admission
> about your attraction to the spouses of female pilots...
>
is by the short haircut. I have no idea whether any of the women
sitting with the men who had short haircuts were aviators themselves.
Perhaps I should have said "of all the aviators and spouses around the
pool in Yuma, there were more attractive spouses than aviators."
I wouldn't want to offend male aviators by implying that they're an
ugly bunch. They're not all Tom Cruise, though---for one thing, they're
taller! ;-)
Mark
Derek Lyons
Grey Satterfield
"dott.Piergiorgio" <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
Dottore -- In both the British and US navies, flag officers historically
have not commanded individual ships. Commands of deepdraft ships in the US
and, I assume, British navies are given to captains. Major commands, such
as Nimitz, are given to senior captains, who probably had an earlier
deepdraft command and will likely make flag rank out of the deal if they
perform well.
Further, Major capitol ships almost always have the admiral aboard who
commands the force that the ship is part of and his staff.
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
"TMOliver" <tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
[Snip.]
> I returned from a week + on the road, some business, some pleasure, but 2500
> miles of driving with a couple of 650 mile days, harder now than when young,
> over in the mountains of North Carolina to find little changed, although the
> discussion of "Carrier" does represent some grasp at tenuous reality and
> naval subject matter.
>
> Welcome back, Grey.
>
> TMO
Tom -- Thanks its great to be back and have a chance to again interact with
The Usual Suspects. I chumped off and bought a new car last fall -- after
having had the old one for 7 years. To Christen it, I took two long driving
trips from OKC. The first was to visit my son and his family in Milwaukee
and the other to see my brother and sister in law in Atlanta. Man, I am
getting old for that sort of stuff, but it was a lot of fun, nonetheless.
Back on topic for the moment, the aviator who got grounded reminded me of
what a meritocracy naval aviation is. It's so damned dangerous that those
who are dangerous to themselves are also a danger to others, so something
has to be done. Does anyone else recall the female fighter jet pilot who,
despite her will know incompetence, didn't get grounded because of a fear of
a sexism claim in the post-Tailhook scandal world? She ended up crashing
and killing herself. I don't recall whether there was a backseater who died
with her.
Grey Satterfield
jgro...@hotmail.com
> On 4/27/08 11:32 AM, in article wU1Rj.2517$PM5.393@edtnps92, "La N"
>
> > I just saw a commercial on TV (which I rarely watch) about a new PBS series
> > the few preview peeks they gave, it seemed like it would be good dramatic
> > watching.
>
> > In any case, here's a bit of history on the making of the series:
>
> >http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/the_film.htm
>
> [Series details snipped.]
>
> High gang, long time, no post. I have come back to talk about the opening
> episode of this PBS series. I've seen some of it and it has been very
> interesting.
Interesting indeed. The enlisted staff seemed to be comprised of carny
offspring and small town natives with few job prospects.
Pilots were 99% Republican, with only 1 described as "blue" ( an
independent thinker ??).
Political affiliation sure seemed to be a requirement for carrier
pilot duty..JG
dott.Piergiorgio
>> curiously, I was reading about this sort of thing just yesterday
>> night.... You refer to this: ?
>>
>> http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm
>
> Sobering reading that.
Indeed.
Grey Satterfield
Lyons" <fair...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "dott.Piergiorgio" <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
>> Grey Satterfield ha scritto:
>>> On 4/28/08 9:13 AM, in article
>>> e9a2c870-bc00-4a86...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, "Jack
>>> Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note, in the rest of the Navy the bad apples get sent to aircraft
>>>> carriers, it would seem if you are a bad apple on a CV it's up and out.
>>>
>>> Jack -- I am so far removed from the present day Navy I don't know what the
>>> answer is these days but what you said was once very true, especially during
>>> Viet Nam. A guy who was a hot running captain aviator got the Holy Grail, a
>>> CVA command in the '60s. He was the brother of a woman who was distantly
>>> related to me by marriage. Unfortunately, there was a race riot aboard,
>>> which resulted in some injuries, so he not only never achieved flag rank, he
>>> was relived of command and retired. Like Barry Switzer said, "It's just a
>>> short walk from the palace to the outhouse."
>>
>> curiously, I was reading about this sort of thing just yesterday
>> night.... You refer to this: ?
>>
>> http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm
>
> Sobering reading that.
My distant relation's unfortunateness may have been the KITTY HAWK affair,
but don't hold me to it. I don't even remember the guy's name any more and
never knew him personally.
Billzz
news:a4f9f9d7-568b-4df4...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
You have an interesting observation that I made in 1958, when I was forced
to enlist after the death of parents. Since I was a student at Boston
University (and in Air Force ROTC) I looked at opportunity in all the
services and found the US Army was way ahead of all the other services in
opportunity for advancement. Air Force and Marines followed and the navy
was in last place, by a lot. A lot of it had to do with size, but the navy
was by far most WASPish at the top, colored at the bottom. And I suspected,
but did not follow up, that the navy "twanged" the most political people
with direct commissions (LBJ, JFK, etc. - but maybe they were just more
noticeable - and since I was not going to get one, I did not care.) I was
assured that the navy place for any minority was as a mess steward, which I
did not know if it was true or not, but declined to find out.
Anyway, I volunteered for the draft in the army, mostly maxed their tests,
they sent me to OCS, and paid for both bachelor's and master's degrees.
This was 1958, and I could not see any of the other services doing as much.
I looked at two minutes of "Carrier" where some flirty female enlisted
person sprinkled a male with some bread crumbs, and thought that it would
just annoy me. Anyway, I'm posting from us.military.army, so the film is
not on my recommended TV viewing list.
La N.
> >
> I looked at two minutes of "Carrier" where some flirty female enlisted
> person sprinkled a male with some bread crumbs, and thought that it would
> just annoy me. Anyway, I'm posting from us.military.army, so the film is
> not on my recommended TV viewing
Okay, Colonel, *I'll* bite. What *is* on your recommended TV viewing?
- nilita who a year or so ago watched another great PBS documentary on
The Marines ....
Mark Borgerson
says...
Lt. Kara Hultgren. IIRC, the backseater survived.
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
billzz...@starband.net says...
Was the Kennedy family politically powerful prior to WWII? Or were they
just plain wealthy? I know his father was an ambassador---but that
doesn't always mean great political power.
When I think of direct commissions, I generally don't think of men
who were commissioned as ensigns---and then go to OCS, as did
Kennedy. LBJ is more typical---being directly appointed as a
lieutenant commander (O-4).
> Anyway, I volunteered for the draft in the army, mostly maxed their tests,
> they sent me to OCS, and paid for both bachelor's and master's degrees.
> This was 1958, and I could not see any of the other services doing as much.
>
> I looked at two minutes of "Carrier" where some flirty female enlisted
> person sprinkled a male with some bread crumbs, and thought that it would
> just annoy me. Anyway, I'm posting from us.military.army, so the film is
> not on my recommended TV viewing list.
>
Mark Borgerson
Billzz
news:610cba84-ab73-410f...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Well, if you must know, our oldest son, daughter-in-law, and two grandsons
(four and two) are staying with us while they transition from Texas to
California. Because of the housing implosion (and he is a finance person)
there will not be a house purchase for at least a year. So the bottom line
is that the TV is on Sesame Street, the Disney Kids Channel, Baby Einstein,
maybe Spongebob. When the kids go to bed then it's American Idol, and on
Sunday evening, Deperate Housewives. You can see I do not get a pick, and
why I only get five minutes of whatever.
If the PBS documentary was the one on the Marine Mountain Warfare Training
Center, then you saw some engineering done by our third son, who just got
out of the Marines as a sergeant. He was not on camera, just some of his
roads, and the landing strip.
If I ever get the TV back, then I'll go back to watching Johnny Carson on
the Tonight Show, and SNL - that Chevy Chase cracks me up.
Billzz
news:MPG.228294fc6...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
The history of the Kennedy's (I grew up in Boston) is interesting and I
recommend "The Dark Side of Camelot," by Seymour Hersh.
Anyway, Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. graduated from Harvard, but was more or less
steamed by, and ignored by the WASP elite, so he, like most Irish Catholic
became Democrat to oppose the incumbent Republican Protestants. About the
1920's there was the change from Republican Protestantism to Irish Catholic,
and meantime JPK, made millions on Wall Street (some say he invented the
"pump and dump") and brought some millions to the FDR campaign. As a result
he was made Ambassador to England about 1938 (there is more than a touch of
irony there) but was relieved when he became a little too pro-German. Oddly
enough FDR made him the first Chairman of the Securities Exchange
Commission, more or less putting the fox in charge of the fox den, with the
admonition to make laws that would ban what he had done.
Come late 1930's, war clouds brewing, and all the Kennedy sons were expected
to join up, with Jospeph P. Kennedy, Jr, being his father's choice for
future political office. Unfortunately JPK Jr died in a bomber, and then it
fell to JFK, who received a commission, in the navy, natch, and went to
naval intelligence in Washington, D.C. He was never in good health, and
there is evidence that he was probably not physically able to pass an exam,
but I leave that subject. It was not unusual in those days to just "issue"
a commission. End of WWII sort of reformed that. Anyway JFK had a tryst
with one Inga Arvard, who had been photographed with Hitler at the Nuremburg
Olympics, and so (I"m making this short) the FBI, trailing her, found JFK,
and J.Edgar Hoover phoned JPK Sr. who phoned his friends in the
administration, and got JFK transferred to the south pacific. That story
from John St. John, of the Dallas Morning News who interviewed Arvard's son
at the dissolution of her estate.
One could become very cynical researching the avenues to a commission in the
armed forces, considering that the sons of the rich and famous could get any
sort of diploma, commission, promotion, while absolutely outstanding people,
like Hyman Rickover (the father of the nuclear navy) blackballed at
Annapolis, because he was Jewish, and held from promotion until the congress
blocked all navy promotions, until he was promoted, (that's one story, but I
can well believe it, which says something about the navy I did not want to
enter)
Well, sorry for the long answer to a short question. The saving grace is
that I could have made it much longer!
Mark Borgerson
billzz...@starband.net says...
In the last few years, I'v worked with a number of retired recon
marines. IIRC, they said the mountain warfare school was one
tough stretch.
There was also a good series about the military free-fall parachute
school. I found that interesting since I've been working with these
Marines on gps-guided parachute systems.
> If I ever get the TV back, then I'll go back to watching Johnny Carson on
> the Tonight Show, and SNL - that Chevy Chase cracks me up.
Mark Borgerson
Jim Yanik
news:321e$48190889$9440b19b$12...@STARBAND.NET:
> "La N." <nilit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:610cba84-ab73-410f...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com..
you only have ONE TV set? I live in a 1 bedroom apt,and have 3;one with the
new DTV converter.
1;living room(DTV)
2;dining room next to PC
3;bedroom.
the last two,I repaired and returned to service. that's why I have 3 TVs.
Fred J. McCall
:
:Back on topic for the moment, the aviator who got grounded reminded me of
:what a meritocracy naval aviation is. It's so damned dangerous that those
:who are dangerous to themselves are also a danger to others, so something
:has to be done. Does anyone else recall the female fighter jet pilot who,
:despite her will know incompetence, didn't get grounded because of a fear of
:a sexism claim in the post-Tailhook scandal world? She ended up crashing
:and killing herself. I don't recall whether there was a backseater who died
:with her.
Kara Hultgreen. Her RIO initiated ejection when he realized the
aircraft had gone non-recoverable. Since the RIO seat fires first, he
made it out. By the time her seat fired in sequence the plane was
partially inverted and she ejected into the water.
dott.Piergiorgio
>>>> I am so far removed from the present day Navy I don't know what the
>>>> answer is these days but what you said was once very true, especially during
>>>> Viet Nam. A guy who was a hot running captain aviator got the Holy Grail, a
>>>> CVA command in the '60s.
>>> http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm
>> Sobering reading that.
>
> My distant relation's unfortunateness may have been the KITTY HAWK affair,
> but don't hold me to it. I don't even remember the guy's name any more and
> never knew him personally.
Thanks. Also I have noticed only now that you refer to the 60s and this
report refer to early 70s incidents.
dott.Piergiorgio
> So the bottom line
> is that the TV is on Sesame Street, the Disney Kids Channel, Baby Einstein,
> maybe Spongebob. When the kids go to bed then it's American Idol, and on
> Sunday evening, Deperate Housewives. You can see I do not get a pick, and
> why I only get five minutes of whatever.
> If I ever get the TV back, then I'll go back to watching Johnny Carson on
> the Tonight Show, and SNL - that Chevy Chase cracks me up.
Mh... seems that at least in some part of the US there's an check of
pervasiveness of TV receiver, whose here in Italy is a real issue (aside
the political abuse of it)
For example, in my mansion, there are... let's count: three LCD screens,
six CRT screens, plus two or three decommissioned but working CRT
screen (I guess they count as backups), all this for five people plus
one servant. No Komment. (for the record, here are only one screen in my
house, relegated to the role of videogame/DVD monitor)
Best regards from the pathethic Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
dott.Piergiorgio
>
> you only have ONE TV set? I live in a 1 bedroom apt,and have 3;one with the
> new DTV converter.
>
> 1;living room(DTV)
> 2;dining room next to PC
> 3;bedroom.
>
> the last two,I repaired and returned to service. that's why I have 3 TVs.
As I have reported above, here in Italy, there are more TV receivers
than people....
Grey Satterfield
"dott.Piergiorgio" <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> Grey Satterfield ha scritto:
>> My distant relation's unfortunateness may have been the KITTY HAWK affair,
>> but don't hold me to it. I don't even remember the guy's name any more and
>> never knew him personally.
>
> Thanks. Also I have noticed only now that you refer to the 60s and this
> report refer to early 70s incidents.
>
>
> Best regards from Italy,
> Dott. Piergiorgio.
Right you are. This was near the end of the Viet Nam War and it was,
indeed, the '70s.
Grey Satterfield
Grey Satterfield
The segment showing the struggles to get the airplanes back on deck, in a
pitching sea and pitch-black dark was riveting. My heart was in my throat
and I was honestly relieved that they didn't lose any airplanes or a fliers.
Do you want to talk about dangerous? Jesus!
I was impressed by the senior pilot, a commander, who bumped the young
female pilot on her first deployment because he thought she would have been
in over head in the heavy seas and the dark. Given the unshirted hell that
so many other pilots had getting back aboard, it struck me that he was right
to relieve her. I am sure she disagreed but I thought his decision was
prudent.
Grey Satterfield
Jeff Crowell
in message news:C43F86DD.5485%gsatte...@cox.net...
>I was surprised to see that there were no comments on last nights episodes.
> The segment showing the struggles to get the airplanes back on deck, in a
> pitching sea and pitch-black dark was riveting. My heart was in my throat
> and I was honestly relieved that they didn't lose any airplanes or a
> fliers.
> Do you want to talk about dangerous? Jesus!
A beautiful illustration of how even the big ones can get up and dance
in the right conditions. I was surprised to not see any slippin' and
slidin'
as the guys were taxiing about--by the end of the cruise, the deck is
usually
pretty well sans nonskid, not to mention oily/greasy. Makes it even more
interesting...
Also interesting was the comment made by one of the higher-ups that this
was a necessay training event--Heaving Decks 101. I think they realized
they were getting more than they bargained for, that's why they canc'd the
rest of the schedule.
> I was impressed by the senior pilot, a commander, who bumped the young
> female pilot on her first deployment because he thought she would have
> been
> in over head in the heavy seas and the dark. Given the unshirted hell
> that
> so many other pilots had getting back aboard, it struck me that he was
> right
> to relieve her. I am sure she disagreed but I thought his decision was
> prudent.
Clearly a case of the skipper taking care of his nuggets. I wonder how
much she grumbled (and how seriously she meant it) when he was giving
her the hook... I also wondered at how far along she got toward manning
up before he yanked her.
My family's favorite part was the "going to the movies" atmosphere in the
ready rooms--popcorn, kibitzers, and all. And the redhead in CATCC
who was body-Englishing every pass to help them get aboard was
priceless.
If you've ever wondered how you get respect in a Ready Room, you saw it
in that ep when the skipper brung it aboard in one pass!
Jeff
TMOliver
"Grey Satterfield" <gsatte...@cox.net> wrote...
deck plays no favorites. The advantage of the old A1 tanker package was the
ability of the sumbitch to stay airborne until first light, but you always
had to feel for the poor guy in an A4 w/Buddy Store, the last to recover
with no one to tank but himself.
The show did not quite communicate the noise and light show for those on the
Bridge, in Pri-Fly and lining Vultures' Row (or the LSO platform, where jaws
grew tight). I hope folks watching noticed that except for the deck edge,
centerline and Fresnel, they turn off all the lights for night flight ops.
It gets awfully dark out for the plane pushers.
Close up Foxtrot.
TMO
Eugene Griessel
>A beautiful illustration of how even the big ones can get up and dance
>in the right conditions.
One of my most vivid memories was a film we were shown, I think it was
at NBCD school for some odd reason, of a Murmansk convoy which was
accompanied by a fairly large carrier - not an escort carrier, but a
fleet carrier. She appeared, to the untutored eye, to be seesawing
back an forth around 90 degrees - bows up 45, bows under 45. Although
it was probably less than that - but it was an awesome dance for an
800 foot long vessel!
Eugene L Griessel
Great blunders are often made, like large ropes, of a multitude of fibres.
- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
TMOliver
"Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOT...@hp.com> wrote ....
>
> If you've ever wondered how you get respect in a Ready Room, you saw it
> in that ep when the skipper brung it aboard in one pass!
>
Wasn't it his last trap as CO (and probably his last operational trap unless
he gets a tour as CAG)?
I'm interested to see the old "Automated Carrier Landing System" dating from
about 1970 is still stored away in some AET's storeroom, proving to be not
quite as good as the dancing skills of them trained to grease'em on to the
deck.
When you stick your ear into CCA from CIC, and you hear'em say: "They're
stacked up 10 high and several deep out at Night Marshall, the wind's
blowing like Hell, the sea's kicking up, and there's a squall line crossing
the wake!", the last Recovery is going to be a long one.....
TMO
Paul J. Adam
<tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> writes
>"Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOT...@hp.com> wrote ....
>>
>> If you've ever wondered how you get respect in a Ready Room, you saw it
>> in that ep when the skipper brung it aboard in one pass!
>
>Wasn't it his last trap as CO (and probably his last operational trap unless
>he gets a tour as CAG)?
There's at least one two-star admiral who kept his carrier quals in date
while he flew his flag off a CVN...
--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides
paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
Mark Borgerson
says...
(missed approaches) in a row, the other pilots finally started getting
down. It then showed the air group commander's approach and the other
pilots in the ready room watching the video and taking odds on how
many attempts he would need. You could see that he was way above
the flight path as he approached, and the observers were guessing
at a bolter. Then the cross hairs swept up and seemed to lock
on the aircraft. He landed on his first approach. Flying that
tanker hornet and being last to land was no job for a nugget.
That twenty minutes of reality TV was as intense as anything
I've seen in quite a long time. I haven't seen that kind
of pitching in a ship that size before.
The CO certainly made the right decision when he earlier
canceled further night operations. That they got all the
aircraft down is a testament to the skills and courage
of those aviators.
Mark Borgerson
Fred J. McCall
:
:That twenty minutes of reality TV was as intense as anything
:I've seen in quite a long time. I haven't seen that kind
:of pitching in a ship that size before.
:
:The CO certainly made the right decision when he earlier
:canceled further night operations. That they got all the
:aircraft down is a testament to the skills and courage
:of those aviators.
The best in the world.
If it was easy we'd let the Air Force do it...
--
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night
to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
-- George Orwell
David Lesher
Can anyone point towards specifics on the arresting system? Is it
hydraulic ram based, or are there hydraulic motors with sheaves?
How often does a cable break? I gather it does happen and kills folks on
deck when it happens...
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Fred J. McCall
:
:Can anyone point towards specifics on the arresting system? Is it
:hydraulic ram based, or are there hydraulic motors with sheaves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arresting_gear
:
:How often does a cable break? I gather it does happen and kills folks on
:deck when it happens...
:
Can happen but if proper maintenance is done it doesn't happen. The
same thing can happen when a ship moors. If a line parts people can
be hurt or killed.
Any time you have a line under tension it is going to kill anyone in
the way if it breaks.
David Lesher
>:Can anyone point towards specifics on the arresting system? Is it
>:hydraulic ram based, or are there hydraulic motors with sheaves?
>:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arresting_gear
I'd read that, but wanted to get confirmation that was actully
the case on this class ship. I have a memory of hydraulic motor
system...
>:How often does a cable break? I gather it does happen and kills folks on
>:deck when it happens...
>Can happen but if proper maintenance is done it doesn't happen. The
>same thing can happen when a ship moors. If a line parts people can
>be hurt or killed.
>Any time you have a line under tension it is going to kill anyone in
>the way if it breaks.
And part of my question is.. why are folks in the way?
Isn't the deck clear until after the aircraft stops?
Fred J. McCall
:Fred J. McCall <fmc...@earthlink.net> writes:
:
:>:Can anyone point towards specifics on the arresting system? Is it
:>:hydraulic ram based, or are there hydraulic motors with sheaves?
:>:
:
:>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arresting_gear
:
:I'd read that, but wanted to get confirmation that was actully
:the case on this class ship. I have a memory of hydraulic motor
:system...
:
:>:How often does a cable break? I gather it does happen and kills folks on
:>:deck when it happens...
:
:>Can happen but if proper maintenance is done it doesn't happen. The
:>same thing can happen when a ship moors. If a line parts people can
:>be hurt or killed.
:
:>Any time you have a line under tension it is going to kill anyone in
:>the way if it breaks.
:
:And part of my question is.. why are folks in the way?
:Isn't the deck clear until after the aircraft stops?
:
The people have to be somewhere. They need to be nearby to get ready
for the next trap. If everyone ran half a ship away rather than going
down along the sides you'd need permanent tanker support over the ship
because you wouldn't be able to get everyone down before they ran out
of gas.
This isn't like flying into an airport.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
Alan Lothian
dott.Piergiorgio <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> As I have reported above, here in Italy, there are more TV receivers
> than people....
O tempora. O mores. O Silvio Berlusconi. Povera Italia; ti posso
offrire solo le mie lacrime....
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
Blueyonder is a thing of the past.
dott.Piergiorgio
> In article <3FkSj.28555$o06....@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
> dott.Piergiorgio <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
>> As I have reported above, here in Italy, there are more TV receivers
>> than people....
>
> O tempora. O mores. O Silvio Berlusconi. Povera Italia; ti posso
> offrire solo le mie lacrime....
Eh.... comunque la sinistra non č stata certo colle mani in mano :D se
guardi su emule mettendo come parola chiave p-2005 troverai un
abbondantissima selezione di redditi dichiarati al fisco (Hai vissuto in
Italia, sai bene cosa significa dare in pasto alla popolazione generale
le dichiarazioni di tutti o quasi.
Se hai seguito la vicenda, noterai che nel passaggio ufficio
entrate-blocco imposto dal garante della privacy-ripubblicazione su
emule "stranamente" sono spariti i dati delle "Regioni Rosse"; e
considera anche i fattori temporali, essendo stati ufficialmente online
solo una manciata di ore... ma sto dilungandomi in lingua Italiana, non
vorrei annojare gli altri....
ENGLISH ABSTRACT OF ABOVE:
I have described & talked about the last Italian political case, namely
that the outgoing Finance minister has put online the declared Incomes
of every Italian, (and also in a format easy to machine processing) and
the Italian national Privacy obdusman has vetoed the initiative; and in
few minutes after the closure of the Finance Minister's webpage they
reappar, albeit in a part, on the P2P system E-Mule. One must known that
here in Italy is common knowledge that people dodge Income taxes; and
the half of Italy whose pay regulary Income taxes despises the other
half whose dodge said Income taxes. also of note is that these tvo
halves coincides exactly with the two halves of the Italian electorate....
Jeff Crowell
> I agree that he was correct---and he proved it. After about 12 bolters
> (missed approaches) in a row, the other pilots finally started getting
> down. It then showed the air group commander's approach and the other
> pilots in the ready room watching the video and taking odds on how
> many attempts he would need. You could see that he was way above
> the flight path as he approached, and the observers were guessing
> at a bolter. Then the cross hairs swept up and seemed to lock
> on the aircraft. He landed on his first approach. Flying that
> tanker hornet and being last to land was no job for a nugget.
Interesting. As I saw the video supposed to be that of the skipper,
it seemed to me he was nailed to the crosshairs until the in-close
position, where he went low (or the deck went high). This means
the driver is looking at a faceful of droplights and steel, and two very
large eyeballs as the stern lookout wonders if he has time to get that
watertight door closed before the F-18 joins him in the stern gallery
(not that it'd help, but at times like this that's not how the mind
works). As a general statement, it is considered to be a Bad Thing
when the plane disappears below deck level (cue music, "Later that
Night / When his lights went out of sight / Came the wreck of the
Edmund Fitzgerald.")
This is the place where ordinary mortals (and nearly all this guy's
predecessors on this night) add too much power and the ball either
shoots up and completely off the lens (waveoff at the ramp), or
they land fast, long, and flat (bolter or hook-skip bolter). But after
17 years of flying, the damn guy just sort of Zens his way aboard.
Did you notice there were not many guys landing short? Likely
that's partly because the LSO wouldn't let them get there if he
could help it. But it is thought-provoking to walk back to the
round-down and see all the dents put there by hook points of
guys who Just Barely Cleared It. Worst of that is, it tends to
break off (or, maybe worse, seriously weaken) hook points.
No hookee no trappee. Wonder if they'd even try the barricade
at night with a heaving deck?
Howsomever, there is an underconsidered group of participants
here, and that's the backseaters. About half these planes were
two-seaters. Bad enough you're the driver, drowning in sweat
and trying not to think about those last three bolters as you make
a trick-or-treat pass (if you miss this time, it's up into the tanker
pattern for some go-juice and then start over). Imagine being
the guy in the pit. No flight controls, no instruments beyond the
"I love me" gauges (usually airspeed, altitude, heading, maybe a
peanut gyro, though I'm not sure what the Hornets carry back
there, maybe he can echo the main nav display). Well, I take
that back--you have just one flight control: the braided loops
which activate your ejection seat. Trying to encourage the
driver without letting him know you'd really rather be in the
Ready Room with the guys eating popcorn just now, thanks
very much (so would he!) is a fine and undervalued art. To sit
there and take it, with no control over your fate, requires a
special kind of guts.
My favorite sound bite was when that driver said that now he
was aboard, he just wanted to go to a quiet corner and have his
aneurysm in peace.
Jeff
Vince Brannigan
>
>
> ENGLISH ABSTRACT OF ABOVE:
>
> I have described & talked about the last Italian political case,
> namely that the outgoing Finance minister has put online the declared
> Incomes of every Italian, (and also in a format easy to machine
> processing) and the Italian national Privacy obdusman has vetoed the
> initiative; and in few minutes after the closure of the Finance
> Minister's webpage they reappar, albeit in a part, on the P2P system
> E-Mule. One must known that here in Italy is common knowledge that
> people dodge Income taxes; and the half of Italy whose pay regulary
> Income taxes despises the other half whose dodge said Income taxes.
> also of note is that these tvo halves coincides exactly with the two
> halves of the Italian electorate....
>
> Best regards from Italy,
> Dott. Piergiorgio.
fishermen are
compensated for their loss of income. They use the income the
fishermen report,
which causes huge protests and a collapse of the local economy
Vince
Fred J. McCall
:
:Interesting. As I saw the video supposed to be that of the skipper,
:it seemed to me he was nailed to the crosshairs until the in-close
:position, where he went low (or the deck went high).
Looked more to me like that happened around midrange and then the boat
moved and he was right back in the crosshairs. Wherever it happened,
he was WAY out of there for a while.
What I found impressive (or at least indicative of a good leadership
style) was the "I wouldn't ask one of my pilots to do something I
wasn't willing to do" immediately followed by the call up to tell them
he'd take the last gascan up. That and "You may not understand why
I'm doing this now, but you will in about 20 minutes when you see
these guys trying to get back aboard" comment.
I think he got down as well as he did because of the statement he made
after he was down ("This isn't my first pitching deck in the dark,
although it's probably my last.").
It was funny watching all the guys who'd already gotten down betting
against him making it in one pass. This is sort of typical - "I
couldn't do it in one, so nobody else can possibly do it that way"
thinking.
TMOliver
"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote >
> And part of my question is.. why are folks in the way?
> Isn't the deck clear until after the aircraft stops?
> --
The usual certain casualty from a cable parting is the guy with the steel
pole waiting to rush out to disengage the hook when necessary. There's
another a/c in the pattern, 45 seconds or less out, and the just trapped a/c
has to be taxied (or moved by hand) clear of the landing area. A "Foul
Deck" is not a status that PriFly, the Bridge or the flag welcomes for more
than a few seconds if at all.
The others on the flight deck all have jobs related to the a/c coming back
aboard. I was amazed, 43 years after leaving my ship, to see that the
entire complex ballet continues to be orchestrated in a form and fashion
quite familiar to me, not unlike it was during WWII, and amazingly close to
the first semi-stumbling versions shown on old grainy film from the 1920s.
TMO
Mark Borgerson
fmc...@earthlink.net says...
> Mark Borgerson <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
> :
> :That twenty minutes of reality TV was as intense as anything
> :I've seen in quite a long time. I haven't seen that kind
> :of pitching in a ship that size before.
> :
> :The CO certainly made the right decision when he earlier
> :canceled further night operations. That they got all the
> :aircraft down is a testament to the skills and courage
> :of those aviators.
> :
>
> The best in the world.
>
> If it was easy we'd let the Air Force do it...
>
a 5000-foot runway that doesn't move in even one
dimension! In evidence, I offer the fact that
I've done it myself with only about 20 hours
of training. (yes, the Air Force has faster
aircraft---but they get longer runways also.)
When the runway is moving in two dimensions and
you have to touch down +/- about 150 feet
to catch a wire, it gets tough. Add a third
dimension of runway movement then turn off the
lights and you've got naval aviator tough!
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
How do you translate "What goes around, comes around" into
Italian? ;-)
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
says...
I was saddened a bit when that skipper announced that he was
retiring after the cruise. I can understand his reasons,
though---flying a desk in DC just wouldn't be the same.
I hope I've got him, or someone like him, in the front seat
the next time my United flight gets diverted to Denver
in December.
A couple of questions for those who might know:
Do retired Naval aviators end up with the airlines, or
is that more common with AF pilots?
Can a retired military pilot use GI Bill money to pay the costs to
get type rated in civilian aircraft?
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
fmc...@earthlink.net says...
> "Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOT...@hp.com> wrote:
> :
> :Interesting. As I saw the video supposed to be that of the skipper,
> :it seemed to me he was nailed to the crosshairs until the in-close
> :position, where he went low (or the deck went high).
> :
>
> Looked more to me like that happened around midrange and then the boat
> moved and he was right back in the crosshairs. Wherever it happened,
> he was WAY out of there for a while.
>
> What I found impressive (or at least indicative of a good leadership
> style) was the "I wouldn't ask one of my pilots to do something I
> wasn't willing to do" immediately followed by the call up to tell them
> he'd take the last gascan up. That and "You may not understand why
> I'm doing this now, but you will in about 20 minutes when you see
> these guys trying to get back aboard" comment.
>
> I think he got down as well as he did because of the statement he made
> after he was down ("This isn't my first pitching deck in the dark,
> although it's probably my last.").
>
> It was funny watching all the guys who'd already gotten down betting
> against him making it in one pass. This is sort of typical - "I
> couldn't do it in one, so nobody else can possibly do it that way"
> thinking.
>
pilots it will go more like this: "You think you can fly?
I remember that night in the IO with 50-feet of pitch on the
deck. We alerted the laundry detail for incoming shorts after
the first 25 bolters. The skipper is the last one up in the
gas can---and he nails it in one. Now that guy can fly!"
I hope there's a lot of satisfaction in going out at the top of
your game---and having a camera crew record it so that some
folks who haven't played the game gain a bit of appreciation
for the skills and leadership involved.
Mark Borgerson
Derek Lyons
>here in Italy is common knowledge that people dodge Income taxes; and
>the half of Italy whose pay regulary Income taxes despises the other
>half whose dodge said Income taxes. also of note is that these tvo
>halves coincides exactly with the two halves of the Italian electorate
They've finally found a criteria that only divides the Italian
electorate into _two_ categories? Will wonders never cease!
I kid of course! :) :)
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Jeff Crowell
> Do retired Naval aviators end up with the airlines, or
> is that more common with AF pilots?
>
> Can a retired military pilot use GI Bill money to pay the costs to
> get type rated in civilian aircraft?
O's don't get GI Bill benefits. Yer on yer own!
He was saying he didn't know what he'd do. Chances
are he's working for a Beltway Bandit of some type.
When I was in, a rated military pilot could get
appropriate FAA ratings and licensure by taking a
written (95-question??) test. As a Bug driver he could
get multi-engine/centerline thrust, instrument, and
commercial ratings, I'd say. Obviously he's got to
go to school for transport ratings.
A lot of former Navy drivers end up flying big iron. But
IMO, based on what he said throughout the show, I
doubt he's the busdriver type. Without implying anything,
I suspect that's rather more the province of P-3 drivers.
Jeff
Vince Brannigan
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
>
>> Do retired Naval aviators end up with the airlines, or
>> is that more common with AF pilots?
>>
>> Can a retired military pilot use GI Bill money to pay the costs to
>> get type rated in civilian aircraft?
>>
>
> O's don't get GI Bill benefits. Yer on yer own!
>
Eligibility
To qualify, you must meet the following requirements:
* Have a six-year obligation to serve in the Selected Reserve signed
after June 30, 1985. If you are an officer, you must have agreed
to serve six years in addition to your original obligation. For
some types of training, it is necessary to have a six-year
commitment that begins after September 30, 1990;
http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/CH1606/CH1606_Pamphlet_General.htm
IIRC only officers who had their education paid for were ineligible
Not Eligible to Enroll
* U.S. Service Academy graduate or ROTC scholarship graduate.
Exceptions are :
o Servicemembers separating from active duty under the
provisions of Public Laws 101-510 (Involuntary Separation)
or 102-484 (Voluntary Separation Incentive/Special
Separation Benefit).
o ROTC Scholarship recipients entering active duty after
September 30, 1996, and who received less than $2,000 in any
one school year. This amount was increased to $3,400 for
those entering active duty after December 27, 2001.
o Reservist on active duty for training.
https://www.earmyu.com/public/public_money_for_college-montgomery_gi_bill.aspx#noteligible
I have had officer/grad students at U of Md on the GI bill
Vince
Jeff Crowell
> Eligibility
(snip)
We were discussing, mostly, the skipper of VFA-41,
who was retiring and, IIRC, a boat-schooler. But I
certainly grant that the specific question was not focused
that tightly.
Jeff
Grey Satterfield
Crowell" <jeffDOT...@hp.com> wrote:
> Grey Satterfield wrote:
> in message news:C43F86DD.5485%gsatte...@cox.net...
>
>> I was impressed by the senior pilot, a commander, who bumped the young female
>> pilot on her first deployment because he thought she would have been in over
>> head in the heavy seas and the dark. Given the unshirted hell that so many
>> other pilots had getting back aboard, it struck me that he was right to
>> relieve her. I am sure she disagreed but I thought his decision was prudent.
>
> Clearly a case of the skipper taking care of his nuggets. I wonder how
> much she grumbled (and how seriously she meant it) when he was giving
> her the hook... I also wondered at how far along she got toward manning
> up before he yanked her.
>
> My family's favorite part was the "going to the movies" atmosphere in the
> ready rooms--popcorn, kibitzers, and all. And the redhead in CATCC
> who was body-Englishing every pass to help them get aboard was
> priceless.
>
> If you've ever wondered how you get respect in a Ready Room, you saw it
> in that ep when the skipper brung it aboard in one pass!
As noted in my earlier post, I loved it, too. I was sympathetic with the
CO, or maybe the admiral, who ordered the night evolution in rough seas.
Although it finally got a little too rough, the need for readiness requires
training in all conditions.
One of my dearest friends, a Naval Academy graduate and fighter jet jockey
during his active duty years, left the reserves in the '60s because he
couldn't get enough hours there to feel safe flying. I thought of him when
I saw the boys and girls sweating bullets.
CDR Fravor, the squadron CO who relieved the young female pilot and took the
flight himself, was an impressive guy. His farewell to his troops, with the
"Thanks for the Memories!!!" sign on his camopy and the lei on his helmet as
he made his last takeoff from NIMITZ before his retirement were nice
touches. I am sure he was missed.
On another subject, the scenes with the families were uniformly moving, some
in a not entirely upbeat way. This was a great series, one of the very best
documentaries I have seen and certainly the best about life at sea.
Grey Satterfield
Mark Borgerson
says...
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > Do retired Naval aviators end up with the airlines, or
> > is that more common with AF pilots?
> >
> > Can a retired military pilot use GI Bill money to pay the costs to
> > get type rated in civilian aircraft?
>
> O's don't get GI Bill benefits. Yer on yer own!
When did that change? Obviously some time after 1980.
I RADd as an O2 in '74 and collected GI Bill benefits through three
years of grad school and for a couple of odd classes here and there
until the time limit ran out.
> He was saying he didn't know what he'd do. Chances
> are he's working for a Beltway Bandit of some type.
>
> When I was in, a rated military pilot could get
> appropriate FAA ratings and licensure by taking a
> written (95-question??) test. As a Bug driver he could
> get multi-engine/centerline thrust, instrument, and
> commercial ratings, I'd say. Obviously he's got to
> go to school for transport ratings.
>
> A lot of former Navy drivers end up flying big iron. But
> IMO, based on what he said throughout the show, I
> doubt he's the busdriver type. Without implying anything,
> I suspect that's rather more the province of P-3 drivers.
>
>
Transition to a commuter line with the twin turboprops
should be fairly easy for a COD pilot, too. I think I
had a former naval aviator up front one time when
I took a short hop into LAX in a Porter. Full flaps
and slats and a VERY steep approach. I could look
up through the cockpit windscreen and see the runway
numbers in mid windscreen and no sky at all from
my viewpoint 3 rows back.
Mark Borgerson
dott.Piergiorgio
>
> How do you translate "What goes around, comes around" into
> Italian? ;-)
"Chi se la fa se l' aspetti"
But how you put it in the context ? I can't see the joke or pun that the
smile indicate... (as many known I'm not exactly versed in
Britsh/American humour....)
David Lesher
>"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote >
>> And part of my question is.. why are folks in the way?
>> Isn't the deck clear until after the aircraft stops?
>> --
>The usual certain casualty from a cable parting is the guy with the steel
>pole waiting to rush out to disengage the hook when necessary. There's
>another a/c in the pattern, 45 seconds or less out, and the just trapped a/c
>has to be taxied (or moved by hand) clear of the landing area. A "Foul
>Deck" is not a status that PriFly, the Bridge or the flag welcomes for more
>than a few seconds if at all.
I'd assumed he would be off one side or the other [I don't know the term
for the just-below-flight deck spaces we saw people standing in] if only
to NOT be in the way of the aircraft. The airman may be replaceable but
that landing aircraft would get dented if it hit him.
Once the aircraft stops and the cable tension is released, it's not going
to snap....true?
dott.Piergiorgio
> "dott.Piergiorgio" <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
>> here in Italy is common knowledge that people dodge Income taxes; and
>> the half of Italy whose pay regulary Income taxes despises the other
>> half whose dodge said Income taxes. also of note is that these tvo
>> halves coincides exactly with the two halves of the Italian electorate
>
> They've finally found a criteria that only divides the Italian
> electorate into _two_ categories? Will wonders never cease!
>
> I kid of course! :) :)
LOL ! ROTFL !!! LOOOLLL !!!!
*Really* an excellent wittiness !!!
Thanks :) :) :D :D :D
David Lesher
>A lot of former Navy drivers end up flying big iron. But
>IMO, based on what he said throughout the show, I
>doubt he's the busdriver type. Without implying anything,
>I suspect that's rather more the province of P-3 drivers.
Can they stand the pay cut? While high-seniority flight crew
in some airlines do well; not so those joining up. And
the older airlines are all declaring bankruptcy, or have...
I was just reading in the NYT about puddlejumper crew making
~$25k/year...
Mark Borgerson
says...
the concept to the producers, the personal and family issues and the
relationships between junior and senior enlisted and officers certainly
resonated with me.
Mark Borgerson
Vince Brannigan
Mark Borgerson
> "Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOT...@hp.com> writes:
>
>
> >A lot of former Navy drivers end up flying big iron. But
> >IMO, based on what he said throughout the show, I
> >doubt he's the busdriver type. Without implying anything,
> >I suspect that's rather more the province of P-3 drivers.
>
> Can they stand the pay cut? While high-seniority flight crew
> in some airlines do well; not so those joining up. And
> the older airlines are all declaring bankruptcy, or have...
>
> I was just reading in the NYT about puddlejumper crew making
> ~$25k/year...
I knew one guy who was flying twin otters and skyvans for
a busy skydiving center. That's apparently a good
way to build up hours and you get 20+ takeoffs and
landings a day. The guy in question was apparently
not thrilled with pay at the local Arizona commuter
airlines, and ended up taking a job with a railroad
(engineer-in-training, or something like that).
It seems that a lot of senior Air National Guard
pilots are airline pilots in their day jobs.
Maybe they were the military pilots that got
out at the end of their first committment
and started with United at age 30 or so.
I suspect a lot of those ANG pilots get a big
kick out of yanking and banking in an F-15 after
spending all week making sure the 747 autopilot doesn't
spill the tea on the trip to London.
Mark Borgerson
Jack Linthicum
> In article <fvfpt2$bq...@reader2.panix.com>, wb8...@panix.com says...
There is that scene in Red Storm Rising where the Air National Guard
flying A-10s does a low level approach and zoom on the Soviet Fleet.
IIRC those were reserve airline pilots.
We had one guy who went from being the duty pilot for a SecGru
detachment as well as a linguist to fly for American Airlines.
dott.Piergiorgio
> think of tilting at the quintain
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgmF2h0bMPg
>
> Vince
mmm.... I have only seen the first pair of minutes, and I have a
curiosity: you have even visited Arezzo, especially at the end of June
or the early september ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saracen_Joust
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giostra_del_Saracino_%28Arezzo%29
the photos at the end of the Italian Wikipedia article are very
self-explanatory, but alas there's no footage of an jouster whose don't
dodge "Buratto"'s morningstar....
Derek Lyons
That video annoys the heck out of me, all kinds of cool stuff happens
at June Faire and I miss it every year because I'm in the cooking
demo. (If you could look through the yellow building you can see at
about 1:36 - you'd see me either bent over the fire or working at a
prep table.)
Fred J. McCall
:
:Do retired Naval aviators end up with the airlines, or
:is that more common with AF pilots?
Fast-mover pilots are not, in general, what airlines are looking for
in a pilot. More USAF pilots wind up in commercial air because USAF
has a lot more trash haulers and big-wing types.
:
:Can a retired military pilot use GI Bill money to pay the costs to
:get type rated in civilian aircraft?
:
I would think so, if they were actually enrolled in the system.
Officers by default are not and must make a special request to be
enrolled prior to entering OBC.
--
"We come into the world and take our chances.
Fate is just the weight of circumstances.
That's the way that Lady Luck dances.
Roll the bones...."
-- "Roll The Bones", Rush
Fred J. McCall
:
:Transition to a commuter line with the twin turboprops
:should be fairly easy for a COD pilot, too. I think I
:had a former naval aviator up front one time when
:I took a short hop into LAX in a Porter. Full flaps
:and slats and a VERY steep approach. I could look
:up through the cockpit windscreen and see the runway
:numbers in mid windscreen and no sky at all from
:my viewpoint 3 rows back.
I swore I had one going into Denver one time. We were in the pattern
and the field came up and offered to let us land immediately (out of
turn) if we could slip into the landing pattern RIGHT NOW.
This guy rolled in like he was about to drop iron, went wings level
just off the end of the runway, and then stuck the thing to the ground
in a way that made it feel like the props went into full reverse while
we were still airborne.
--
You have never lived until you have almost died.
Life has a special meaning that the protected
will never know.
David Lesher
Moving from the stopping to the starting department....
From what I've scraped up, the catapult pistons are ~21" in diameter, and
the length of the bore, there's a ?1"? wide slot that connects to the
shuttle.
[Any graphics of the innards?]
No one has talked about anything blocking the slot, so is it just open? I
can picture something like a metal tape measure on the shuttle, reeling
out as it goes, but I suspect it would last a few trips then foul...
The further the piston gets, the more in^2 are vented. As I figure, by
the time it's slid ~300 inches down the bore, there's greater area open
than the possible supply size. [Assuming the cylinder is fed with a 21"
dia pipe...] By the time it's 3000+....
I wonder what the acceleration vs distance curve looks like? Ideally,
you'd want it steady or ramping up as you go, but I see it
decreasing. [Obviously, the velocity is always increasing until it hits
the brake...]
Do they pressure the far end to return the piston to the start?
I see why there's all this talk about linear induction motors; sounds
like a much nicer scheme..
Roger Conroy
"Mark Borgerson" <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.22852048f...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
I once met a SAAF Buccaneer pilot who said he would never want to fly planes
with "payload that pukes!"
Roger