Re: troop morale in sw asia
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Mutiny on the USS Constellation! Yep, Capt Ward called it a "bona-fide mutiny".
Great history!
;-)
redvet wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:03:15 -0800, Mac <NoSpa...@NoSpamToday.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:37:00 -0600, "Le Janitor"
>><awrli...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>that's right....I said SW asia. most of the time we hear about the
>>>deserters and whiners from our lefty friends here in AWV I'd like to add
>>>this one voice to the caca-phony of the newsgroup. click on the link and
>>>enjoy
>>>
>>>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3f3_1257480316
>>>
>>
>>============================
>>That was very interesting.
>>Glad to see he was so serious about his work and his dedication to his
>>duty.
>>-Mac, the Medic
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> Fortunately there is a wealth of documentation
> on this subject and I'm surprised that you are unfamiliar with it. I'm
> thankful for the research done by Col. Ware, Col. Heinl and of course
> Mr. Richard Moser for providing much of the information. Throughout
> the history of warfare defiant soldiers and seaman have resorted to
> mutiny to control the cruel or endangering behavior of brutal or
> overzealous officers. In Vietnam an array of mutinous activities
> culminated in what was called the "combat refusal." This was a form of
> mutiny that resembled a strike and occurred when GIs refused,
> disobeyed, or negotiated an order into combat.
>
> As early as 1965 the expression of soldier discontent began to
> increase, with growing individual refusals to follow orders. In June
> 1965 West Point graduate and special forces officer Lieutenant Richard
> R. Steinke refused a direct order into a combat zone because of his
> disapproval of U.S. policy in Vietnam. ("U.S. Officer
> Guilty", pp.1, 5.) In June 1966 Private Adam R. Weber, Jr., of the
> 25th Infantry Division, was sentenced to a year in prison for his
> refusal to bear arms in Vietnam. (R.W.Apple, Jr., "G.I. Who Refused to
> Bear Arms in Vietnam Gets Year," New York Times, June 12, 1966, p.1)
> In a letter from October of the year, Captain William Wilders of the
> 1st Battalion, 28th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division, described some of
> the rigors of combat and then the reaction of the troops.
>
> " We don't have too many cases of battle fatigue, but we do have a
> goodly number of people who after a certain point just refuse to go
> out anymore and end up being court martialed. And to tell the truth
> it's hard to blame them" (William Wilders to James F. Wilders, Phuoc
> Binh, RVN, Oct.6, 1966)
>
> What a "goodly number" meant and how widespread such resistance was
> in 1966 is difficult to tell. The captain's sympathy for combat
> refusals does hint at a surprising acceptance of such acts by
> officers. These few cases are among the earliest documentation of
> combat refusal, which was later to become one of the most effective
> forms of GI resistance. Starting in 1968, there was a rapid increase
> in incidents of combat refusal, resulting in at least ten major
> mutinies and perhaps hundreds of minor ones, many unreported. (Nancy
> Zaroulis and Gerald Sullivan, "Who Spoke Up? American Protests
> against the War in Vietnam, 1963 1975" <Garden City, N.Y.:
> Doubleday,1984>, p. 366) Serving in the 1st Infantry Division from
> August 1967 to August 1968, Guillermo Alvidrez remembers, "We had a
> barracks full of guys waiting for court martials for refusing to
> fight. They felt it wasn't worth it." (Charley Trujillo, "Soldados:
> Chicanos in Vietnam" <San Jose, Calif: Chusma House,1990>p.64) There
> were sixty eight recorded combat refusals in 1968 alone. (Rinaldi,
> "Olive Drab Rebels," p. 29)
>
> The "Vietnam Courier", a Hanoi based newspaper, cited fifteen major
> events of war resistance by American GI s during the first five months
> of 1969. ("As You Were 7" <Aug.1969>. New York University, Tamiment
> Library <hereafter cited as TL>) In August 1969 Alpha Company, 3d
> battalion, 196th Light Infantry refused an order to attack. In a
> response that can only underscore the political sensitivity of the
> refusal, the forty nine men were not reprimanded. (Myra Macpherson,
> "Long Time Passing: Vietnam and the Haunted Generation" <Garden City,
> N.Y.: Doubleday,1984>, p. 512; Richard Boyle, "The Flower of the
> Dragon: The Breakdown of the U.S. Army during the Vietnam Era" <San
> Francisco:Ramparts, 1972>,pp. 87 88; and Horst Faas and Peter Arnett,
> "Told to Move Again on 6th Deathly Day, Company A Refuses," New
> York Time, Aug 26, 1969, p. 1, 3.) In May 1970 sixteen soldiers from
> Fire Base Washington refused to go into Cambodia. Private Harry Veon
> wrote the GI press, "We have no business here. We have enough trouble
> in Vietnam. Sixteen of us refused to go. We just sat down. Then they
> promised we wouldn't have to go to Cambodia." ("Up Against the
> Bulkhead" 1, No.2 <May 15, 1970>,TL) A week later, a group of men in
> the 3rd Battalion, 8th Infantry refused to board helicopters. In
> December 1970 Lieutenant Fred Pitts and twenty three men of C Company,
> 2d Battalion, 501st Infantry refused a command to advance. (Cortright,
> "Soldiers in Revolt," p.37) Combat refusals were often led by squad
> leaders. Squad leader Dennis Kroll was a veteran of the 1st Cavalry
> Division (Airmobile) and led such an action in the spring of 1970. His
> recollection re creates the dialogue between the reluctant soldiers
> and their officer.
>
> One day there were these ARVN working out close to us. They kept
> going up this hill and the NVA had a 51 caliber out there. They'd get
> halfway up - they'd come back down. Then the Phantoms would work out.
> They'd start back up - they'd didi mau off the hill. This went on all
> day. Our platoon leader says, 'All right saddle up...We'll show em!'
> Everybody was just...'What's your problem?' 'It's their hill, their
> objective.' <Officer> 'Well they're refusing to go back up. Let's go
> show them what we can do.' <Kroll> "Fuck you - it's their territory.
> If they don't want , I don't want it." That caused enough mumbling
> within the platoon that he lost face and said, 'fuck it.'...He call me
> in the tent. He was going to be lenient and give me an article 15
> for refusing an order. I just said 'I refuse the article 15, I want a
> court martial.' (Dennis Kroll, interviewed by Richard Moser, Madison,
> Wis.,Mar. 25,
> 1990)
>
> Scenes like this were repeated scores of time in Vietnam. In the 1st
> Cavalry Division alone, there were thirty five cases of combat refusal
> during 1970. At times, entire units refused combat orders. (Shelby L.
> Standton, "The Rise and fall of an American Army: U.S. Ground forces
> in Vietnam, 1965 1973" <Novato, Calif.: Presido Press, 1985>, p. 349)
>
> In March 1971, fifty three soldiers in Bravo Troop, 1st Squadron, 1st
> Cavalry, refused to go into combat, citing inadequate reasons for
> their mission. ("Vietnam Mutiny," Fatigue Press <May,1971>. Private
> collection of David Cline <hereafter
> cited as DCPC>). In one of the most highly publicized of these events,
> fifteen men from Firebase Pace refused to go out on what they
> considered to be a suicide patrol. Sixty six men from that base sent a
> letter of protest to Senator Edward Kennedy claiming that they were
> continuing to play an offensive role despite the officially declared
> defensive posture of Vietnamization. (Boyle, "Flower of the Dragon,"
> p. 228; and "Company Removed from Base After Soldiers Balk at Patrol",
> Chicago Tribune, Oct. 12, 1971) In the C Company, 3rd Battalion, 187th
> Infantry, seven African Americans refused combat duty, claiming that
> racist commanders were exposing them to undue risk. (Cortright,
> "Soldiers in Revolt," p. 41) According to Representative Paul
> McCloskey of California, an entire platoon of the 1st Brigade,
> 5th Mechanized Division refused combat. ("Congressional Record," 92d
> Cong. 1st sess., Oct. 28, 1971, p 38082) In the later years of the war
> combat refusals came to include increasingly large groups of soldiers.
> In April 1972, for example, one hundred men of C Company, 2nd
> Battalion, 1st Infantry, 196th Brigade, refused an order to advance.
> (Cortright, "Soldiers in Revolt," p. 38. For other evidence of
> combat refusals, see Thomas Stallworth, interview by Sam Cameron and
> Sam Fustukjian, Fisk University Library, Black Oral History Program,
> Nashville, Tenn., Dec. 7 1972 <hereafter cited as FUBOP>; and Freddie
> Smith, interview By Sam Cameron and Sam Fustukjian, Oct. 30, 1972,
> FUBOB.) In 1967 68 Colonel Tom Ware experienced two combat refusals
> of men under his command. By 1972 Ware observed the increasing
> dimensions of combat refusal when the "Phu Bai 13", thirteen African
> American soldiers from the 2d Brigade, 101st Airborne Division,
> refused orders, occupied a barracks, and issued a list of demands.
> (Colonel Tom Ware, "The U.S. Soldier in Vietnam at the Beginning, the
> Middle and Ending" <Paper cited in BDM Corporation, "A Study of
> Strategic Lessons Learned in Vietnam," Vol.4 Defense Logistics
> Agency, Alexandria, Virgina, 1979 pp.4 22> Microfilm published by
> Scholarly Resources Inc. and Navy Historical Library, Washington, D.
> C.)
>
> The air force also suffered combat refusals. As a protest, combat
> pilots Captain Dwight Evans and Captain Michael Heck refused to fly
> missions. Heck a veteran of 175 missions and holder of the
> Distinguished Flying Cross, realized that his targets were hospitals
> and civilian sectors; he cited Nuremburg principles and refused to
> fly. ("B 52 Commander Applies for CO," Camp News 4, no2 <Jan.15,
> 1973>.Indiana University, Underground Newspaper Collection,
> Bloomington, Microfilm AN 123, reel 95 <hereafter cited as UNCIUB>;
> and Cortright, "Soldiers in Revolt," p. 135) He explained his position
> by stating, "I came to the decision that any war creates an evil far
> greater than anything it is trying to prevent....The goals do not
> justify the mass destruction and killing." ("Camp News 4" no. 1 <Jan.
> 15, 1973>, UNCIUB) Four other airmen who refused to fly B 52 missions
> joined Representative Elizabeth Holtzman of New York in a suit
> challenging the legality of the Cambodian bombings. These bombings,
> which exacted a heavy toll among civilians, led to a crisis of morale
> among B 52 bomber crews
> .
> Mutiny in the Navy also took on significant proportions. The USS
> Kitty Hawk had suffered mounting racial tensions during its long 1972
> combat tour. Heading back to the United States, the Kitty Hawk put in
> at Subic Bay, Philippines, but was unexpectedly ordered to return to
> Vietnam. According to a House Armed Services Committee report, the
> rescheduling seems to have been the result of sabotage on board the
> USS Ranger and the USS Forrestal, the Kitty Hawk's sister ships and
> replacements. (Report cited in Cortright, "Soldiers in Revolt," p.
> 125) Expecting relief from the tensions of war, the sailors found
> themselves back in the Gulf of Tonkin. A hundred African American
> sailors assembled for a protest meeting over racial discrimination. A
> foolhardy attempt to suppress the demonstration with a detachment of
> marines backfired, and fighting broke out. Roving bands of black and
> white sailors clashed for hours.
>
> On November 3, 1972, one of the most serious mass mutinies in U.S.
> naval history occurred aboard the USS Constellation, paralyzing the
> ship. Following attempts to suppress a dissident organization of
> African American seamen, a sit in over racism was staged by eighty
> African American sailors. Over 130 sailors, including some whites,
> were put ashore at San Diego, where they held another protest. The
> dissident sailors then refused to board the ship when ordered.
> (Everett R. Holles, "130 Refuse to Join Ship; Most Reassigned by
> Navy," New York Times, Nov.10, 1972; p. 1. Henry P. Leifermann, "The
> Constellation Incident," New York Times Magazine, Feb. 18, 1973, p. 17
> et passim; and Cortright, "Soldiers in Revolt," pp. 121 22 For the
> most complete description of Vietnam era naval mutinies, see Leonard
> F. Guttridge, "Mutiny: A History of Naval Insurrection"< Annapolis,
> Md.:U.S. Naval Institute, 1992>)
>
> These highly publicized and well documented uprisings are only the
> most dramatic expressions of the GI s refusal to fight in Vietnam or
> to obey military authority. Army documentation suggests that a
> thousand small incidents of combat refusal occurred. After all, as
> Col Heinl wrote in "The Armed Forces Journal" "The morale, discipline
> and battle worthiness of the U.S. Armed Forces are, with a few salient
> exceptions, lower and worse than at any time in the century and
> possibly in the history of the United States. By every conceivable
> indicator, our army that now remains in Vietnam is in a state
> approaching collapse, with individual units avoiding or having refused
> combat, murdering their officers and non commissioned officers, drug
> ridden, and dispirited where not near mutinous. Elsewhere than
> Vietnam, the situation is nearly as serious. (1971, p.30)"
>
>
> http://www.ivaw.org/
> http://girights.objector.org/
> http://www.objector.org/http://www.mfso.org/
>
> redvet - Facilitator - Vietnam Veterans Against the
> War/Anti-Imperialist
> http://host274.hostmonster.com/~vvawaior/
--
Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
definition:
murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.
redvet
<dr...@coldine.edu> wrote:
>
>Mutiny on the USS Constellation! Yep, Capt Ward called it a "bona-fide mutiny".
>Great history!
Thanks, I was concerned that 'boys' might want the thread to be 'on
topic'. Did you hear 'em squeal?...Back in the day, I remember the arm
chair warriors telling us how great morale was too. Happy Armistice
Day - redvet