Ronald Reagan's "legacy" a lie
Erik Bloodaxe
Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
xyzzy
I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"xyzzy" <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
˝* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
LG
--
No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the
will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
--
"To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible." - George
W.Bush
Dennis
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good,
Some primal termite knocked on wood,
And tasted it, and found it good;
And that's why your Aunt May
Fell through the parlor floor today!
- Ogden Nash
Damon Hynes
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
>
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> ~~~~
> ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
Why does it have to be either/or?
rwa2play (Lost mode on)
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
>
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> ~~~~
> ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
He got you to answer, I say "Mission Accomplished."
The Grand Beckoning
wrote:
The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
alive and well.
(and not a lie).
Paul J. Adam
Dennis M <denn...@dennism3.invalid> writes
>I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their empire,
>along with their global aspirations.
And you don't think that one of the former Soviet Socialist Republics
kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that the
Evil Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by
infighting?
Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies,
from bicycles to SA-2 sites and MiG-21s. Today the former USSR is
talking big, rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen
any Iraqi or Afghan insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or
manning Russian-supplied MR-SAM sites, lately?
--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides
paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
Andrew Chaplin
news:4wGkmwAp...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk...
> In message <dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Dennis M <denn...@dennism3.invalid> writes
>>I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their empire,
>>along with their global aspirations.
>
> And you don't think that one of the former Soviet Socialist Republics
> kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that the Evil
> Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by infighting?
>
> Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies, from
> bicycles to SA-2 sites and MiG-21s. Today the former USSR is talking big,
> rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen any Iraqi or Afghan
> insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or manning Russian-supplied
> MR-SAM sites, lately?
Now the Russians expect a benefit, either cash or useful, significant
consideration, for anything they supply, a much sounder basis of ops than that
of the USSR. I think they also have a much clearer understanding of what their
vital interests are.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Jerry Okamura
"Dennis M" <denn...@dennism3.invalid> wrote in message
news:dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET...
> In article <1ftba4ht7vr517h78...@4ax.com>, The Grand
> Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote:
>
>>The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>>alive and well.
>>
>>(and not a lie).
>
> along with their global aspirations.
The first World War was suppose to have "demolished" Germany's empire, and
of course that only worked for a few decades.
Raymond O'Hara
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:iZnpk.32705$QX3....@newsfe02.iad...
germany never had an empire.
it had germany and that remained intact.
the few overseas colonie were irrekevent.
and everybody else went broke after WWI too.
a425couple
(I deleted 2 sports ng, and will stick to the national defense issue.)
Do you think a even a "legacy" can last forever?
(About the only thing that lasts forever IMHO,
is the knowledge that one day every one of us will die.
And maybe - in various forms, taxes is also a constant.)
Now, I'm not much of a fan of the "Doomsday Clock",
but even it shows some interesting trends:
1968 7 11:53 -5 France and China acquire and test nuclear weapons, wars
rage on in the Middle East, Indian subcontinent, and Vietnam.
(POTUS Johnson)
1969 10 11:50 +3 The U.S. Senate ratifies the Nuclear Non-Proliferation
Treaty.
1972 12 11:48 +2 The United States and Soviet Union sign the SALT I and
ABMT.
1974 9 11:51 -3 India tests nuclear device (Smiling Buddha), SALT II talks
stall.
(POTUS Nixon & Ford)
1980 7 11:53 -2 Further deadlock in US-USSR talks, increase in nationalist
wars--.
1981 4 11:56 -3 Arms race escalates, conflicts Afghan., SA & Pol. add to
tension.
(POTUS Carter, 1981 transition, but above cited trends are from
before.)
1984 3 11:57 -1 Further escalation of the arms race between US and USSR.
1988 6 11:54 +3 U.S. and SU sign treaty to eliminate IRMnf, relations
improve.
1990 10 11:50 +4 Fall of the Berlin Wall, success of anti-communist
movements
in Eastern Europe, Cold War nearing an end.
1991 17 11:43 +7 United States and Soviet Union sign the Strategic Arms
Reduction Treaty. The clock is at its greatest distance from midnight
so far.
(So, under POTUS Reagan & his VP elected to own term, GHWBush,
the world became safer than it's been since 1948! Not too bad!)
1995 14 11:46 -3 Global military spending continues at Cold War levels;
concerns about post-Soviet nuclear proliferation of weapons and brainpower.
1998 9 11:51 -5 Both India and Pakistan test nuclear weapons in a
tit-for-tat show of aggression; the United States and Russia run into
difficulties in further reducing stockpiles.
2002 7 11:53 -2 Little progress on global nuclear disarmament; United States
rejects a series of arms control treaties and announces its intentions to
withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty; concerns about the
possibility of a nuclear terrorist attack due to the amount of weapon-grade
nuclear materials that are unsecured and unaccounted for worldwide.
2007 5 11:55 -2 North Korea's recent test of a nuclear weapon, Iran's
alleged nuclear ambitions, a renewed U.S. emphasis on the military utility
of nuclear weapons, the failure to adequately secure nuclear materials, and
the continued presence of some 26,000 nuclear weapons in the United States
and Russia.[4] Experts assessing the dangers posed to civilization have
added climate change to the prospect of nuclear annihilation as the greatest
threats to humankind.
So, even after all the stupid bad events lately, these scientists that run
this "clock", think we are still safer than when Reagan became POTUS.
David E. Powell
are still doing OK.
Reagan gave the opportunity, if subsequent leaders botch it, that's
not Raygun's fault!
Jim Yanik
news:uJ6dnbnK0sSHljvV...@giganews.com:
> "Paul J. Adam" <ne...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4wGkmwAp...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk...
>> In message
>> <dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET>, Dennis M
>> <denn...@dennism3.invalid> writes
>>>I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their
>>>empire, along with their global aspirations.
>>
>> And you don't think that one of the former Soviet Socialist Republics
>> kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that
>> the Evil Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by
>> infighting?
IMO,it's more of a effort by Russia to regain the influence over it's
former SSRs,control oil from the Caspian,gain control over Europe(by it's
supply of oil/natural gas to them) and help Iran give the US,Israel, and
the West a difficult time.
>>
>> Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies,
>> from bicycles to SA-2 sites and MiG-21s. Today the former USSR is
>> talking big, rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen
>> any Iraqi or Afghan insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or
>> manning Russian-supplied MR-SAM sites, lately?
Russia just sold Iran a bunch of SAM systems,Tor-M1,IIRC.
Sold ballistic missile tech and supplies to Iran.
they also supplied low-enriched uranium fuel for Iran's Busheir
reactor,that -could- be diverted to Iran's centrifuges and enriched further
to weapons-grade,greatly shortening the time to a nuclear bomb.Russia and
Iran have been quite cozy lately.
An EMP attack by Iran(from a container ship) on the CONUS would put the US
back into the 19th century,US people would starve in great numbers,and the
rest of the world would lose it's protection.
>
> Now the Russians expect a benefit, either cash or useful, significant
> consideration, for anything they supply, a much sounder basis of ops
> than that of the USSR. I think they also have a much clearer
> understanding of what their vital interests are.
Yes,they are not only depending on huge military force,but now
potent economic force.
The Russians are great chess players.
The US and West are weakened by a Socialist 5th column.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Jim E
"Erik Bloodaxe" <er...@fjord.nl> wrote in message
news:g84gp6$u9$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
He defeated and destroyed the USSR, fragmented it
One fragment, the corruption driven Russia chooses to continue to play the
thug is not relevant to that fact.
There is no soviet or Russian super power since Reagan's victory.
Suck it up and move on moonbat.
Jim E
Jim E
"Dennis M" <denn...@dennism3.invalid> wrote in message
news:dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET...
> In article <1ftba4ht7vr517h78...@4ax.com>, The Grand
> Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote:
>
>>alive and well.
>>
>>(and not a lie).
>
> along with their global aspirations.
In case you failed to notice, their empire was demolished.
This is an attempt to rebuild it.
Jim E
God versus a can of tuna
Reagan had nothing to do with Russia's collapse in the eighties.
Reagan's legacy is the legitimatizing of greed and selfishness.
Reagan's legacy is the destruction of the middleclass and the giant
increase of the gulf between the poorest and the wealthiest. Years
from now, Reagan will be remembered as the man who started the
undermining of our economy.
Raymond O'Hara
"Jim E" <Grid...@SEA.net> wrote in message
news:6gmms9F...@mid.individual.net...
it collapsed he didn't destroy anything. he was just president when it
happened.
Tiger
Stick to Wrestling Erik. Your out of your depth...
George Grapman
Armed Iran.
Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
fred
government in a renewed arms race, Reagan strove to make the Cold War
economically and rhetorically hot.
Many analysts argue that the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union was due
more
to the re-emergence of separatist movements under glasnost, an inherent
weakness in communist economic theory, and the depressed global price of
crude
oil, on which the Soviet economy during those years depended heavily.
Furthermore, Reagan's much heralded military buildup that increased American
military spending by 8% per annum in fact did not appear to have the planned
effect of forcing the Soviets to mirror American growth: according to CIA
estimates, Soviet military spending leveled off at a growth rate of 1.3% per
annum in 1975 and remained at that level for a decade, although it more than
tripled to approximately 4.3% in 1985 through 1987 (though spending on
offensive strategic weapons continued to grow at 1.3% during that period),
before returning to 1.3% in 1988.
Perhaps more startling, Reagan's military build up, coupled with his fierce
anti-soviet rhetoric, contributed to Soviet near-panic reaction to a routine
NATO exercises in November 1983, ABLE ARCHER 83. Though the threat of nuclear
war ended abruptly with the end of the exercise, this historically obscure
incident illustrates the possible negative repercussions of Reagan's
"standing
tall" to a nuclear power. Some historians, among them Beth B. Fischer in her
book The Reagan Reversal, pin ABLE ARCHER 83 as an incident which had a
profound effect on President Reagan and his turn from a policy of
Confrontation
towards the Soviet Union to a policy of rapprochement.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"Damon Hynes" <damon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f1f92b5-07d7-412d...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
Good point.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"rwa2play (Lost mode on)" <rwa2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd6c9e15-3e01-4dea...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
What about the 4,000+ brain cells he killed off making that post?
LG
--
Freedom, by its nature, cannot be imposed -- it must be chosen. From Beirut
to Baghdad, people are making the choice for freedom. - George W. Bush
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HoqdnYYs_ro1tjvV...@rcn.net...
Oh goody! It's one of you people...
FDR didn't win WWII, he was just president when Hitler shot himself...
rich hammett
> (and not a lie).
Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
Neville Chamberlain was right?
You people are confusing.
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/
\ "How come things that happen to stupid people keep
/ happening to me?!"
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"God versus a can of tuna" <goof...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ce824a5-6075-41e4...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
So, umm, statistics mean nothing to you then?
Elsa Schneider
> On Aug 15, 2:07�pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
> >
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
"starting war in the middle east"??? so you americans have forgotten
about 9-11-01 already, have you?
Raymond O'Hara
"Elsa Schneider" <el...@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
news:e7ab051f-1b54-4a55...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
xyzzy wrote:
iraq was not involved in 9/11.
how many times does that have to be pointed out.
Damon Hynes
> In rec.sport.football.college The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>
> > wrote:
> >>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> >>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>
> >>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> >>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
> > The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
> > alive and well.
> > (and not a lie).
>
> Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
> Neville Chamberlain was right?
>
> You people are confusing.
Chamberlain had a choice between war and dishonor. He chose dishonor
and got war. ($1.)
Damon Hynes
wrote:
> The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
> alive and well.
>
> (and not a lie).
Nice little delay-fuse on that one. I tip my hat.
Raymond O'Hara
"rich hammett" <bubba...@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:svmdnUKfurLA3DvV...@posted.hiwaay2...
> In rec.sport.football.college The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com>
> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <er...@fjord.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>>>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>>>lie.
>>>
>>>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
>> The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>> alive and well.
>
>> (and not a lie).
>
> Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
> Neville Chamberlain was right?
>
> You people are confusing.
>
germany didn't have to attack czechoslovakia. it fell apart after munich and
the germans just occupied it
a425couple
> Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
Uhh, haa,
I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
to the 'mujadeen'.
frank
wrote:
> "Jim E" <GridRe...@SEA.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6gmms9F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Erik Bloodaxe" <e...@fjord.nl> wrote in message
> >news:g84gp6$u9$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> >> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> >> lie.
>
> >> He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so much
> >> for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> > He defeated and destroyed the USSR, fragmented it
> > One fragment, the corruption driven Russia chooses to continue to play the
> > thug is not relevant to that fact.
> > There is no soviet or Russian super power since Reagan's victory.
> > Suck it up and move on moonbat.
>
> it collapsed he didn't destroy anything. he was just president when it
> happened.
No that was Bush I. Though it sounds so much better to have Reagan be
responsible for it. Bush did nothing when China slaughtered thousands
or tens of thousands in Tianamen Square.
Though a lot more people think the Pope from Poland was way more
responsible for the collapse of Eastern Europe than Reagan ever was. I
hope they turned up the heat on Stalin in hell when he found out how
many divisions the Pope really had...
The Grand Beckoning
THIS IS PAYBACK FOR BOMBING PERL HARBOR!!!
NO MORE GOLD FOR TOJO!!!!!!!11!23E
Dan
Well, I cannot speak for other Americans, but I have not forgotten.
I also have not forgotten that Iraq was not involved. Perhaps you
forgot that small fact?
Dan
Dan
>> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>>
>> He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>> much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> alive and well.
>
> (and not a lie).
The OP wasn't talking about his real legacy, just the [false] one
advertised by the Republicans... You know, St. Ronnie of Reagan Slaying
the Dragon, and Other Hogwashed Tales.
Dan
The Grand Beckoning
YOU MAKE IS SOUND LIKE They were takinga a shit on an airplane. Keep
in mind they killed 12 fucking million people in death camps. Now i'm
sure a few of them had it coming but come on 12 million??????
The Grand Beckoning
<bubba...@warmmail.com> wrote:
>In rec.sport.football.college The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <er...@fjord.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>>>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>>>
>>>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
>> The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>> alive and well.
>
>> (and not a lie).
>
>Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
>Neville Chamberlain was right?
>
>You people are confusing.
>
>rich
No, that would tend to prove Ronald Reagan was right.
Fred J. McCall
:In message <dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET>,
:Dennis M <denn...@dennism3.invalid> writes
:>I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their empire,
:>along with their global aspirations.
:
:And you don't think that one of the former Soviet Socialist Republics
:kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that the
:Evil Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by
:infighting?
:
:Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies,
:from bicycles to SA-2 sites and MiG-21s. Today the former USSR is
:talking big, rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen
:any Iraqi or Afghan insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or
:manning Russian-supplied MR-SAM sites, lately?
:
Well, to be fair, INSURGENTS virtually never have their own air force
or SAM divisions.
Russian arms sales worldwide are second (barely) only to the United
States, going to such lovely countries as China and Iran.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
rwa2play, The Northern Lariat
What makes you think he needed the brain cells to begin with?
--
rwa2play, The Northern Lariat
As a dog returneth to its vomit so a fool returneth to his folly. -- Proverb 26:11.
Seek advice but use your own common sense. -- Yiddish Proverb.
Politics is a rotten egg; if broken, it stinks. -- Russian Proverb.
Seek counsel of him who makes you weep, and not of him who makes you laugh. -- Arabic Proverb.
psyber_o...@yahoo.com
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
>
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> ~~~~
> ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>
> --
> No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the
> will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
> "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible." - George
> W.Bush
Naw, it's because you are so blind Lord Gow, as most neocons are. You
are blinded by your idolatry of an idol who is unworthy to be
worshipped as an idol, as well as your idolatry of the empty values
neocons worship.
*crack
(sound of me hitting yet another home run out of the park)
boy, that feels good!
psyber_o...@yahoo.com
naw, we still haven't, and probably never will be able to, forget that
GWBush already ahd it in mind to convert as many of the countries in
the world that did not conform to his vision of "democracy" to
democracy. unfortunately for everyone involved though, when you talk
about GWBush, it is spelt "demoKKKKracy" instead - in honour of his
wont to tread on human rights, have torture committed, and to commit
war crimes.
but thanks for playing, Elsa. come on back when you have more time to
spend with us.
Fred J. McCall
:
:An EMP attack by Iran(from a container ship) on the CONUS would put the US
:back into the 19th century,US people would starve in great numbers,and the
:rest of the world would lose it's protection.
:
Oh, don't be silly. You don't get significant EMP from a ground burst
and it would be line of sight in any case.
You've got to be able to put one up high in the stratosphere...
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
psyber_o...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> >Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>
> >He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> >much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> alive and well.
false.... proves that despite the claims of Ronnie Raygun, that the
Russians were never subdued by him.
>
> (and not a lie).
psyber_o...@yahoo.com
> In message <dennism3-ya02408000R1508081655350...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Dennis M <denni...@dennism3.invalid> writes
>
> >I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their empire,
> >along with their global aspirations.
>
> And you don't think that one of the former Soviet Socialist Republics
> kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that the
> Evil Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by
> infighting?
>
> Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies,
> from bicycles to SA-2 sites and MiG-21s.
Yeah, and meanwhile America was flooding Vietnam with all kinds of
weaponry.
>Today the former USSR is
> talking big, rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen
> any Iraqi or Afghan insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or
> manning Russian-supplied MR-SAM sites, lately?
And this varies rom the "talking big, rattlin a rusty sabre, and then
turning on itself" side of the recent Georgian start of hostilities in
South Ossetia? Yeah, so funny how the president of Geogia doesn't
realize the heresy, and yes, prescience, of his words. So I'll run
them by you, as has been done elsewhere.
****************************************************************
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26216434/
Emotional tirade
Even as Rice stood with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili in a
show of solidarity, he asked, “Who invited the trouble here? Who
invited this arrogance here? Who invited these innocent deaths here?”
Shaky and near tears following a difficult, nearly five-hour meeting
with her, Saakashvili answered his own question: “Not only those
people who perpetrate them are responsible, but also those people who
failed to stop it.”
Rice let that pass, focusing instead on the demand that Moscow
immediately withdraw its forces.
“With this signature by Georgia, this must take place and take place
now,” she declared.
**********************************************************************************
Notice how Saakashvili is into 'blame game' mode. He says those who
caused the problem should be made to answer. Failing to admit or
acknowledge it was HIM who caused it by Georgia invading South
Ossetia. Oh yes, Mr. Saakashvili, those responsible for this mess
will be called to task about it - starting with you! The chicken that
laid the egg.
It appears that Condoleeza Rice was none too happy - she actually
seemed to be embarrassed, by all accounts - with Saakashvili
indicating he was somehow stood up. It has been pointed out repeatedly
as this saga has continued to Saakashvili has been "all over the
place", saying all kinds of things, with some incongruities in his
renditions. Which has certainly not added to his resume any.... or
enhanced the reputations of any entity that may have put him up to it
and left him hanging - whether it be the US or any of the other ghoul
rogue states of NATO.
>
> --
> The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
> warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
> by fools.
> -Thucydides
"let me make you a present as song.....
....as the wise man breaks wind, and then is gone" - jethro tull
"thick as a brick"
>
> paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
Markku Grönroos
a425couple
> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> lie. He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
It may be worth considering what ex-Russian leader
Gorbachev had to say about POTUS Reagan in 2004:
"Reagan," said Gorbachev, 73, was "an extraordinary political leader" who
decided "to be a peacemaker" at just the right moment -- the moment when
Gorbachev had come to power in Moscow. He, too, wanted to be a peacemaker,
so "our interests coincided." Reagan's second term began in January 1985;
two months later, Gorbachev was elected general secretary of the Soviet
Communist Party.
Reagan had been a kind of reformer in the United States, Gorbachev
suggested. His first term as president "came at a time when the American
nation was in a very difficult situation -- not just in socio-economic
terms, but psychologically, too," because of "the consequences of Vietnam
and Watergate" and turmoil at home. Reagan rose to the occasion and
"restored America's self-confidence. . . . This is what he accomplished."
"He was a person committed to certain values and traditions," Gorbachev
continued. "For him the American dream was not just rhetoric. It was
something he felt in his heart. In that sense he was an idealistic
American."
(in other words, not "short sighted", nor "bad actor")
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"rwa2play, The Northern Lariat" <rwa2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48a662ad$0$29517$607e...@cv.net...
He's a liberal. He needs every one he can get his hands on...
LG
--
The shining beacon of truth in a newsgroup full of liberals. - rafiki
Siobhan Medeiros
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Damon Hynes" <damonhy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9f1f92b5-07d7-412d...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 3:15 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
>
>
>
> <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > > lie.
>
> > > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> > I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> > resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> > watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> > was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> > by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> > bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> > ~~~~
> > ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>
>
> ~~~~
> Good point.
>
> LG
> --
> No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the
> will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
I noticed you couldn't actually answer the points, dumbfuck
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
<psyber_o...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0cd151c2-cb02-4961...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
Funny... change "Lord Gow" to "(any random lib) and "neocon" to "libtard"
and make the subject Obama instead of Reagan and that claim actually works.
~~~~
*crack
(sound of me hitting yet another home run out of the park)
boy, that feels good!
~~~~
It must be a libtard trait to have to congratulate youself.
Is it because no one else will?
LG
--
'Greatness doesn't have to be explained. It just is.' - Rush Limbaugh
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"Elsa Schneider" <el...@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
news:e7ab051f-1b54-4a55...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
xyzzy wrote:
> On Aug 15, 2:07�pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
> >
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
"starting war in the middle east"??? so you americans have forgotten
about 9-11-01 already, have you?
~~~~
Half of us forgot it on 9-12-01, the rest of us will never forget it.
LG
--
The attacks were meant to bring us to our knees, and they did, but not in
the way the terrorists intended. Americans united in prayer, came to the aid
of neighbors in need, and resolved that our enemies would not have the last
word. - George W. Bush
Siobhan Medeiros
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <psyber_operati...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Yeah, if Obama had claimed to end the Cold War..
> *crack
> (sound of me hitting yet another home run out of the park)
>
> boy, that feels good!
Nope. That "crack" was the sound of the knockout punch hitting your
jaw.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5tudnZ-hFPUO2TvV...@rcn.net...
>
> "Elsa Schneider" <el...@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
> news:e7ab051f-1b54-4a55...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> xyzzy wrote:
>> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
>> > escalating
>> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>> > lie.
>> >
>> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
>> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
>> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
>> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
>> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
>> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> about 9-11-01 already, have you?
>
>
> how many times does that have to be pointed out.
As many times as we need to point out that Iraq was aiding terrorists and
acting in violation of UN resolutions, apparently.
Also as part of the Desert Storm peace negotiation we reserved the right to
resume kicking their ass if we considered it necessary.
History... it's fun!
LG
--
Freedom, by its nature, cannot be imposed -- it must be chosen. From Beirut
to Baghdad, people are making the choice for freedom. - George W. Bush
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
<psyber_o...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:99044fe3-dea4-45f5...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
Boy you are a dumbass, ain't ya?
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>> wrote:
>>>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>>>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>>>lie.
>>>
>>>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
>> alive and well.
>
>
> Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
> Neville Chamberlain was right?
>
> You people are confusing.
I hope you warmed up before all that stretching...
sfgeorge
> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote ...
>
> > Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
>
> Uhh, haa,
> I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
> to the 'mujadeen'.
But why didn't the ever wise Reagan stop aiding them?
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
<psyber_o...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:23f2e9db-7a76-4bf2...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
If the Russians were never subdued then why don't they still own Georgia?
a425couple
> "Dennis M" <denn...@dennism3.invalid> wrote ...
>> The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote:
>>>The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>>>alive and well.
>>
>> I thought Reagan's (alleged) legacy was the demolition of their empire,
>> along with their global aspirations.
>
> This is an attempt to rebuild it.
> Jim E
Jim, would you consider a friendly small amendment to your above?
"In case you failed to notice, their empire was demolished.
This is an attempt to rebuild a very tiny part of it."
Siobhan Medeiros
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Elsa Schneider" <e...@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
Yeah. The half that forgot went and attacked the wrong country.
Stupid idiots.
Siobhan Medeiros
> In message <dennism3-ya02408000R1508081655350...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Dennis M <denni...@dennism3.invalid> writes
>
> >along with their global aspirations.
>
> kicking seven shades of shite out of another fSSR demonstrates that the
> Evil Empire has broken up and is at least partly distracted by
> infighting?
>
> Forty years ago the USSR was flooding Vietnam with military supplies,
> talking big, rattling a rusty sabre, and then turning on itself. Seen
> any Iraqi or Afghan insurgents flying Russian-supplied fighters, or
> manning Russian-supplied MR-SAM sites, lately?
>
> The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
> warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
> by fools.
> -Thucydides
>
You might. The Ruskies have gone into the arms business big-time.
EIB Factor
I suppose you have no problem with Islamic fundamentalists wanting to
convert the world to Islam. You wouldn't have problem because Islamic
fundamentalists are Fascist and misogynists.
---[EIB FACTOR]----
.
"This is a clear choice that the American people have.
I had the courage and the judgment to say I would rather
lose a political campaign than lose a war. It seems to
me that Obama would rather lose a war in order to win a
political campaign."
Senator John McCain 22 July 2008
EIB Factor
When you say that,you remind me of the Left's infatuation with Barack
Hussein Obama. He's the one that Liberals idolize for no reason.
President Reagan exhibited optimism. Barack Hussein Obama points out
America's faults at every opportunity. The only time Obama exhibited
optimism is when he told his disciples a vote for him is a vote for
America's future and would remove the racist legacy of the United
States.
President Reagan hated Communism. Barack Hussein Obama had numerous
associates who had Marxist influences and ideals. That's why Obama has
the support of Communist, Socialist and Marxist organizations.
President Reagan said, "How do you tell a communist? Well, it's
someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an
anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
President Reagan once said, "Government's view of the economy could be
summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps
moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
Barack Hussein Obama never met a tax or a government program he didn't
like."
President Reagan once said, "How can a president not be an actor?"
Barack Hussein Obama proves he is an actor. He is lost without a
written script and cue cards (teleprompters).
President Reagan demanded respect for the office of the President.
Barack Hussein Obama demands idol worship of the President on
condition he is voted President.
Chris Mathews of MSNBC epitomizes that blind feeling Liberal
Democrats have for Barack Hussein Obama.
"I have to tell you, you know, it's part of reporting this case, this
election, the feeling most people get when they hear Barack Obama's
speech. My, I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have
that too often."
Present Ronald Reagan's legacy is that it was alright to be an
American and proud of it. Barack Hussein Obama's legacy will be
America has a lot to apologize for.
Raymond O'Hara
"EIB Factor" <AntiP...@Dittohead.com> wrote in message
news:5qrda4lmd81f44qlm...@4ax.com...
>> President Reagan exhibited optimism. Barack Hussein Obama points out
> America's faults at every opportunity. The only time Obama exhibited
> optimism is when he told his disciples a vote for him is a vote for
> America's future and would remove the racist legacy of the United
> States.
unfounded optimism is the way to disaster,
there are problems thsat need to be dealt with.
happy talk doesn;t change that.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:667d4684-0208-41e1...@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
There were points? I saw a bunch of lies and whining, but no real points.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
~~~~
That just makes it all the better. B. Hussein hasn't even done anything and
they still fawn over him.
LG
--
Today, all you have to do is suggest a date by which U.S. forces in Iraq
should surrender, and you're officially a Democratic candidate for
president. - Ann Coulter
David E. Powell
> rwa2play, The Northern Lariat <rwa2p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What makes you think he needed the brain cells to begin with?
>
>
> He's a legend, but being personable and not all that bright is the stuff of
> legends.
>
> I actually liked the idea of SDI, but only because it was a way to invest
> money into NASA. Which, during the 1960's was 5% of the GDP. Now? It's
> .05% of the US GDP.
>
> Any idiot with a brian knew that Reagan's SDI was a joke.
Not the Russians, which was the brilliance of it, really.... Reagan
made them spend like mad.
Raymond O'Hara
and how does that change anything which i said.
"The Grand Beckoning" <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote in message
news:glnca4dm0kad0fspj...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:15:46 -0400, "Raymond O'Hara"
> <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"rich hammett" <bubba...@warmmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:svmdnUKfurLA3DvV...@posted.hiwaay2...
>>> In rec.sport.football.college The Grand Beckoning
>>> <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com>
>>> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <er...@fjord.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
>>>>>escalating
>>>>>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>>>>>lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>>>>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>>
>>>> The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>>>> alive and well.
>>>
>>>> (and not a lie).
>>>
>>> Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
>>> Neville Chamberlain was right?
>>>
>>> You people are confusing.
>>>
>>
>>germany didn't have to attack czechoslovakia. it fell apart after munich
>>and
>>the germans just occupied it
>>
>
> YOU MAKE IS SOUND LIKE They were takinga a shit on an airplane. Keep
> in mind they killed 12 fucking million people in death camps. Now i'm
> sure a few of them had it coming but come on 12 million??????
and how does that change anything which i said.
germany didn't attack czechoslavakia after munich internal pressures caused
it to fall apart and the germans occupied it.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
Stellar rebuttal! Captain of the debate team, right?
LG
Raymond O'Hara
"frank" <dhssres...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:4673e789-b47f-45d6...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
No that was Bush I. Though it sounds so much better to have Reagan be
responsible for it. Bush did nothing when China slaughtered thousands
or tens of thousands in Tianamen Square.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tianamen square is for the people of china to deal with not us.
Though a lot more people think the Pope from Poland was way more
responsible for the collapse of Eastern Europe than Reagan ever was. I
hope they turned up the heat on Stalin in hell when he found out how
many divisions the Pope really had...
Siobhan Medeiros
> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote ...
>
> > Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
>
> Uhh, haa,
> I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
> to the 'mujadeen'.
Wrong.
"Redeye missiles were delivered to the Mujahideen by the US during the
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1984, where they were used to shoot
down a number of aircraft including several Su-25 jets as well as
Mi-24 and Mi-8 helicopters [1]. By November 1985 it had largely been
replaced by the dramatically more successful FIM-92 Stinger missiles."
Last time I checked, Reagan was President in 1984.
So the next time you walk by Ground Zero, think of Reagan.
Siobhan Medeiros
> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote ...
>
> > Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
>
> Uhh, haa,
> I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
> to the 'mujadeen'.
Oh, I forgot, here's the link.
Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!
"sfgeorge" <sfge...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:028d97a1-2e52-4166...@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
~~~~
What? You want him to fix EVERYTHING that Carter fucked up? He only had two
terms...
LG (satisfied with that whole USSR defeat thing)
Siobhan Medeiros
> "Erik Bloodaxe" <e...@fjord.nl> wrote ...
>
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie. He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> Gorbachev had to say about POTUS Reagan in 2004:
Yeah, right after Reagan died.
>
> "Reagan," said Gorbachev, 73, was "an extraordinary political leader" who
> decided "to be a peacemaker" at just the right moment -- the moment when
> Gorbachev had come to power in Moscow. He, too, wanted to be a peacemaker,
> so "our interests coincided." Reagan's second term began in January 1985;
> two months later, Gorbachev was elected general secretary of the Soviet
> Communist Party.
>
> Reagan had been a kind of reformer in the United States, Gorbachev
> suggested. His first term as president "came at a time when the American
> nation was in a very difficult situation -- not just in socio-economic
> terms, but psychologically, too," because of "the consequences of Vietnam
> and Watergate" and turmoil at home. Reagan rose to the occasion and
> "restored America's self-confidence. . . . This is what he accomplished."
>
> "He was a person committed to certain values and traditions," Gorbachev
> continued. "For him the American dream was not just rhetoric. It was
> something he felt in his heart. In that sense he was an idealistic
> American."
>
> (in other words, not "short sighted", nor "bad actor")
Gorbachev just didn't want to speak ill of the dead. Rather bad
manners to criticize someone at their funeral, don't ya think?
The Grand Beckoning
wrote:
>On Aug 15, 5:32 pm, The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com>
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>> >Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>>
>> >He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>> >much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>
>> alive and well.
>
>Russians were never subdued by him.
>
>
>>
Wrong, it proves they were (and are) evil and that Reagan's legacy
resulted in the breakaways. Without Reagan, Russia going into Georgia
would have been an internal matter.
The Grand Beckoning
<raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>and how does that change anything which i said.
You analogy was not valid.
John Rogers
like the same things I do! Wax paper! Boiled football leather! Dog
breath!
The Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, dumnass.
John Rogers
AU Class of 1985
The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"If someone says they're a true Auburn fan, but also says they'll
pull for Alabama except when they play Auburn, then they'll lie
about other things too." (Unknown)
Hoover
"John Rogers" <tige...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fhbea41bhgu84ap4n...@4ax.com...
a425couple
> On Aug 15, 9:00 pm, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote ...
>> > Said that the mujadeen were "freedom fighters".
>>
>> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
>> to the 'mujadeen'.
>
> Oh, I forgot, here's the link.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-43_Redeye
(which says "the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1984" -- !!)
I would hope, for your sake (and others), that you do not
normally consider "wikipedia" entries (esp. on anything 'political'),
a solid and final research tool!!!
ohh, maybe on this try:
"Fighting Dirty, the inside story of covert opns ---" by Peter Harclerode
"The Bear Trap: Afghanistan's Untold Story" by Mohammad Yousaf, Mark Adkin -
""Unholy Wars - Afgan. - America& Inter Terrorism" by John K. Cooley.
Carter was POTUS Jan. 1977 to Jan. 1981.
The USSR * started sending in large numbers of troops
on 24 Dec. 1979. They started siezing critical places
in Kabul the evening of the 27th, and at the 'palace'
they executed Prime Minister Amin.
Several dozen "Redeye's" were delivered via
Pakistan in 1980.
* footnote, and for now, probably no use getting into the
major difference of opinions of Carter's Sec. of State Vance,
and his NSA Brzezinski, and Carter indecisivly vacilating
between the two, which caused huge frustrations at the
mixed signals by the USSR, heightened tensions, and led
to the Afganistan Invasion and real mess...
Carter's SS Vance and NSA B
The Grand Beckoning
Proving their incapability of governing, the Dems have gone from "I'm
going to save the planet" to "opening the shelf" for offshore
drilling. All in the space of about 2 weeks.
This is fucking incredible incompetence (at best).
Each cycle these creeps say ANYTHING to get elected.
a425couple
> On Aug 16, 8:03 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Erik Bloodaxe" <e...@fjord.nl> wrote ...
>> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
>> > escalating
>> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>> > lie. He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks
>> > so
>> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>
>> It may be worth considering what ex-Russian leader
>> Gorbachev had to say about POTUS Reagan in 2004:
>
>> decided "to be a peacemaker" at just the right moment -- the moment when
>> Gorbachev had come to power in Moscow. He, too, wanted to be a
>> peacemaker,
>> so "our interests coincided." Reagan's second term began in January 1985;
>> two months later, Gorbachev was elected general secretary of the Soviet
>> Communist Party.
>>
>> Reagan had been a kind of reformer in the United States, Gorbachev
>> suggested. His first term as president "came at a time when the American
>> nation was in a very difficult situation -- not just in socio-economic
>> terms, but psychologically, too," because of "the consequences of Vietnam
>> and Watergate" and turmoil at home. Reagan rose to the occasion and
>> "restored America's self-confidence. . . . This is what he accomplished."
>>
>> "He was a person committed to certain values and traditions," Gorbachev
>> continued. "For him the American dream was not just rhetoric. It was
>> something he felt in his heart. In that sense he was an idealistic
>> American."
>>
>> (in other words, not "short sighted", nor "bad actor")
>
> Yeah, right after Reagan died.
> Gorbachev just didn't want to speak ill of the dead. Rather bad
> manners to criticize someone at their funeral, don't ya think?
Valid enough thought, but I'm sure even you can easily
find other 'kind' comments re Gorbachev / Reagan.
such as -
'When Reagan and Gorbachev signed the INF Treaty in Washington, in 1987, the
first treaty to reduce the number of nuclear weapons, the United States and
Western Europe rejoiced. Later when they called each other "friend" in
Moscow, many saw it as "the ratification of their mutual desire for peace."
'
I assure you, Leonid Brezhnev never had similar
things to say of Jimmy Carter!
(Even the worst fears of disagreements about the 1st
Reagan / Gorbachev meetings were = "anything would be better than
the frozen silence in which the White House and Kremlin have eyed each
other since Jimmy Carter and Leonid Brezhnev met in Vienna in 1979.)
christoph
The Grand Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote:
> THIS IS PAYBACK FOR BOMBING PERL HARBOR!!!
>
> NO MORE GOLD FOR TOJO!!!!!!!11!23E
Comedy gold; I snorted beer out my nose.
Do it again!
--
"Hope. Wonderful thing; should be a controlled substance"
xristoph at earthlink dot net
frank
> "Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm2...@shaw.ca> wrote
We didn't start sending in hundreds until Reagan. Plus tons of CIA
advisors and others. Including one who showed up on PBS making the
fateful comment, 'We don't care if they're for the US or not, just as
long as they kill Commies.' There were factions we could have backed
to the hilt at the expense of some of the others. But we didn't. For
that, we can blame 9/11 on the GOP and Reagan.
Not to mention the little excursion into Lebanon which was a real
clusterfuc&. Just all the Mid East CIA experts, a few hundred Marines,
then we cut and ran. Or rather decided it ain't worth the trouble. Too
bad this president was a C student in history. At least Reagan said
we're outta here.
Look, the Middle East is a mess. Sort of like the old idea of not
going into a Ground War In Asia. Remember that? No, you were too young
for that. This president really has screwed us into something that is
a real Tar Baby. At least Powell knew enough to stay out. But he
warned us, we didn't listen.
The only really good thing is all the batteries that power the
Stingers are now dead. As a doornail. Don't work. And are not
replaceable. After that little fiasco, we made damn sure some stuff
self destructs somewhat if its not used. Or at least we keep really
close hold on some of the more important spare parts.
EIB Factor
When you want to change a person, you don't beat him over the head
with his faults. It is the good things one grows with.
The United States is relatively young compared other major countries
in the world and yet it has done so much to make positive
contributions to the world.
Raymond O'Hara
"EIB Factor" <AntiP...@Dittohead.com> wrote in message
> Raymond O'Hara wrote...
>
>>
>>"EIB Factor" <AntiP...@Dittohead.com> wrote in message
>>news:5qrda4lmd81f44qlm...@4ax.com...
>>>> President Reagan exhibited optimism. Barack Hussein Obama points out
>>> America's faults at every opportunity. The only time Obama exhibited
>>> optimism is when he told his disciples a vote for him is a vote for
>>> America's future and would remove the racist legacy of the United
>>> States.
>>
>>unfounded optimism is the way to disaster,
>>there are problems thsat need to be dealt with.
>>happy talk doesn;t change that.
>>
> When you want to change a person, you don't beat him over the head
> with his faults. It is the good things one grows with.
>
> The United States is relatively young compared other major countries
> in the world and yet it has done so much to make positive
> contributions to the world.
>
if you don't face your problems you can't overcome them.
i guess you are one of the "everybody gets a trophy" bent..
"i'm ok , you're ok"
a425couple
> "Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm...@shaw.ca> wrote
>> "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
>>> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
>>> to the 'mujadeen'.
>>
>> Oh, I forgot, here's the link.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-43_Redeye
>
> (which says "the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1984" -- !!)
>
> I would hope, for your sake (and others), that you do not
> normally consider "wikipedia" entries (esp. on anything 'political'),
> a solid and final research tool!!!
>
> ohh, maybe on this try:
> "Fighting Dirty, the inside story of covert opns ---" by Peter Harclerode
> "The Bear Trap: Afghanistan's Untold Story" by Mohammad Yousaf, Mark
> Adkin -
> ""Unholy Wars - Afgan. - America& Inter Terrorism" by John K. Cooley.
As regards wikipedia,
while looking for something else, I found this,
relevant and of interest:
Watch out for Wikipedia
Posted by: Michael Mandel on November 01
So I was researching the 'misery index'-the unemployment rate plus the
inflation rate-and of course looked at the wikipedia entry. The very first
sentence says:
The Misery Index is an economic indicator created by Chicago economist
Robert Barro in the 1970s
Okay. I didn't remember that. So I looked further. Under the Wikipedia entry
for Barro, it said:
During the 1970s Barro also developed the concept of the Misery Index, which
Jimmy Carter publicized during his 1976 presidential campaign, and Ronald
Reagan in his 1980 presidential campaign
Boy, that's pretty specific. So I shot off an email to Barro asking him if
that was true (it was 5AM in the morning, and I was pretty sleepy). In the
meantime, I looked at the site www.miseryindex.us, which says
The misery index was initiated by Chicago Economist Robert Barro in the 1970's
and the Investopedia describes the misery index this way:
The index was initiated in the 1970s by a U.S. economist named Robert Barro
Safety in numbers? Hardly. By then my brain was functioning, despite the
early hour, and I was pretty sure all these entries were wrong. Finally I
tracked down the truth. In fact, the original misery index was invented by
economist Arthur Okun. Barro was responsible for the much more recent "Barro
misery index," which he described in a 1999 BusinessWeek column . The Barro
misery index includes GDP and interest rates, as well as unemployment and
inflation.
The moral of this story: Be very suspicious of Wikipedia information, even
if it seems confirmed by other sites.
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://blogs.businessweek.com/mt/mt-tb.cgi/5025.1413113876
Reader Comments
Ray Lopez
November 1, 2006 12:48 PM
Good comment. I just fixed the Wikipedia article based on this article. For
now it's correct (could change in the future though)
The Grand Beckoning
Q: How do they fill up the Olympic swimming pool?
A: Michael Phelps.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhaAHAHHAAH!!!!
Teeeheeheheheheheehehheheehheehehehehehe!!!!!
a425couple
-"a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> Carter was POTUS Jan. 1977 to Jan. 1981.
-> Several dozen "Redeye's" were delivered via
-> Pakistan in 1980.
-"frank" <dhssres...@netscape.net> wrote
-Sort of like the old idea of not going into a Ground War In Asia.
-Remember that? No, you were too young for that.
Frank,
Please get a little real and stop making foolish assumptions
and false assertions.
There are facts out there, that I accept are facts, even if I
do not like them.
Leaders I like and respect have done good things, and
obviously some 'not good' things. Likewise, leaders I'm
not fond of have done some good things along with their
blunders.
There are opinions people have, that I accept are validly
held, even if I differ.
We can each be civil, even friends, and respect each other based
on other areas of values and understanding.
But civility starts to break down, when we begin to make
derogatory conclusions about someone, when they posted
a fact we don't like.
"too young" - wrong.
(Mark "minus 2" on Frank's credibility!)
I was in the USMC and served in Vietnam.
And, I'll admit that I'm not awfully fond of JFK & Johnson
who put us in there to fight for 'democracy', and lost this country
57,000 military deaths.
(Hmmm, 535,000 in country at max. and 57,000 dead, kinda
tends to put modern things in a different perspective doesn't it?)
"frank" <dhssres...@netscape.net> wrote
-"a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> "Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm2...@shaw.ca> wrote
-> > "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> >> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote ...
-> >> I would hope you are aware that it was POTUS
-> >> Carter who started shipping Redeye SAMs
-> >> to the 'mujadeen'.
>
-> > Oh, I forgot, here's the link. http://en.wikipedia.
-> (which says "the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1984" -- !!)
Jerry Okamura
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:156dnTA8luJPkDvV...@rcn.net...
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:iZnpk.32705$QX3....@newsfe02.iad...
>>
>> "Dennis M" <denn...@dennism3.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:dennism3-ya0240800...@News.Individual.NET...
>>> In article <1ftba4ht7vr517h78...@4ax.com>, The Grand
>>> Beckoning <t...@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>>>>alive and well.
>>>>
>>>>(and not a lie).
>>>
>>> along with their global aspirations.
>>
>> The first World War was suppose to have "demolished" Germany's empire,
>> and of course that only worked for a few decades.
>
>
> germany never had an empire.
> it had germany and that remained intact.
> the few overseas colonie were irrekevent.
> and everybody else went broke after WWI too.
>
No, they wanted an empire, they just did not succeed.
Logician
> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>
> He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
Americans are cowards. They are tough when attacking small defenceless
nations. Any country able to offer a credible self-defence and the
tough Americans just run away like frightened dogs.
Timothy Horrigan
> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
>
> He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
Ummm, Reagan was President between 1981 and 1989. A lot of history
happened since then. You can't blame everything on him.
Ronnie's Russia strategy did end up with two desirable results:
1. the relatively peaceful dismemberment of the old Soviet Empire,
including the reunification of Germany. (The current conflict in
Georgia is fairly minor: there are plenty of worse wars going on in
places which never were part fot e Soviet empire. Like, the Iraqi
War, for example.)
2. the avoidance of an all-out war between the USSR and USA, which
likely would have escalated into a nuclear holocaust (i.e., the worst
disaster in the history of the human race, and even the worst
catastrophe since an asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs.)
If anything the current mess shows that it is better to make peace.
We stopped short of making a full peace with Russia when we refused
to dismantle NATO and even refused to pull our troops out of Germany
where they were deployed to defend West Germany from a Russian attack
via East Germany. (In case you hadn't noticed, the two Germanys
merged peacefully almost 20 years ago, and Poland has been a western
capitalist country for about the same amount of time.) Even though
for about 15 years, NATO had no threat to defend itself against, we
now have one... and only because Russia is defending itself against
NATO.
Fred J. McCall
:
:"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:
No, they HAD an empire, largely in Africa and the Pacific, despite
having come late to the game due to the delay in German unification.
It was taken away at the end of WWI and largely given over to the
French and British.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
J. Hugh Sullivan
Hopefully more of them are just beginning to understand that
socialism/liberalism doesn't work.
Hugh
Jack Linthicum
No, this is taking a fake issue away from the drill drill drill idiots
who don't know how to inflate their tires and check the air pressure.
Consider it a charity.
EIB Factor
It serves no purpose to list America's faults and transgressions to
foreign countries. Pessimism does not create optimism. We don't have
to continuously let our allies and our enemies know our weaknesses.
The thing that separates President Reagan and someone like Barack
Obama, President Reagan told us how great America is and we should not
sit on our laurels but strive to be greater. Someone like Barack Obama
does not give credit to the United States for anything.
"[The Democrats] say that the United States has had its days in the
sun, that our nation has passed its zenith.… My fellow citizens, I
utterly reject that view."
-Ronald Reagan July 17, 1980 (from his acceptance speech at the
Republican National Convention)
Raymond O'Hara
"EIB Factor" <AntiP...@Dittohead.com> wrote in message
> utterly reject that view."
> -Ronald Reagan July 17, 1980 (from his acceptance speech at the
> Republican National Convention)
>
> ---[EIB FACTOR]----
so you want to be stroked as opposed to told the truth.
that's why reagan and the chimpler have run record deficits, bush 1 bailed
us out from reagans mistakes , mccain won't save us ftom chimpy's
yeah "don't tell me the truth, tell me how wonderful i am"
that's the way to run the country
Bret Cahill
> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a lie.
Just recently Carter was completely vindicated on stagflation and now
Repugs themselves are tacitly admitting that the Gipster was as
worthless as a fart in a whirlwind.
Bret Cahill