EU convoys through the Gulf of Aden
hcobb
convoy escorts so why aren't they used as such?
It's not like the Russians are going to invade through the North Sea
anytime soon.
-HJC
http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11751360
Western intelligence services are less worried about the growing cost
to global shipping than the possibility that the pirates may link up
with, or turn into, Islamist terrorists.
Andre Ilausky
> The blue water capable ships of the EU "fleets" are little better than
> convoy escorts so why aren't they used as such?
Because there weren't that many notable convoy operations since Earnest
Will in 1987-1988 - or even since World War 2 for that matter?
> It's not like the Russians are going to invade through the North Sea
> anytime soon.
Self-escort!11!!
<http://www.pntl.co.uk/pntl-fleet/>
The Pacific Teal and Pacific Pintail have been fitted with additional
security features that enable them to transport MOX fuel and plutonium
dioxide. They have fixed naval guns and other physical protection
systems, only some of which are visible from the outside.
Andre Ilausky
> hcobb <henry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The blue water capable ships of the EU "fleets" are little better than
>> convoy escorts so why aren't they used as such?
>
> around in harms way...
But they are already there (War on Terror) - Combined Task Force 150 -
they just don't form "convoys" (AFAIK). Maybe a frigate accompanying a
ship a little bit - like some Coalition of the Willing ships on their
way to Iraq or so.
> under German law, for example, fighting off
> pirates would be a police task,
Not in "emergency assistance", while another is under attack. Happened a
few times this year.
> however the German Federal Police
> (former border guards) don't have a blue water navy.
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bredstedt-Klasse>
Reichweite 2000 sm (25 kn) / 7000 sm (10 kn)
;)
Andre Ilausky
> Andre Ilausky <ai_...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> Self-escort!11!!
>>
>> <http://www.pntl.co.uk/pntl-fleet/>
>> The Pacific Teal and Pacific Pintail have been fitted with additional
>> security features that enable them to transport MOX fuel and plutonium
>> dioxide. They have fixed naval guns and other physical protection
>> systems, only some of which are visible from the outside.
>
>
> Most of those ships aill be insured by Lloyds, won't they?
>
> Would it be illegal for Lloyds to send out Q-ships, to operate in
> international waters?
I'm not even sure this would be practical. There probably aren't that
many high seas raiders.
> Or rent out services from Blackwater?
They have a single ship/boat/yacht or so.
> Imagine the look on the pirates' faces if they encounter a modern
> version of the HSK Kormoran :-)
Then let's hope the pirates aren't regular navy personnel on a real
warship ;)
Andre Ilausky
>> But they are already there (War on Terror) - Combined Task Force 150 -
>> they just don't form "convoys" (AFAIK). Maybe a frigate accompanying a
>> ship a little bit - like some Coalition of the Willing ships on their
>> way to Iraq or so.
>
> The problem is that the official mandate only includes "search for
> weapon trafficers in the Gulf of Aden",
It says:
"Gleichzeitig wird ein Beitrag zum Schutz dieser für den Welthandel
strategisch wichtigen Seepassage vor terroristischen Anschlägen geleistet."
Is piracy a terrorist attack on sea lanes?
Anyway, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea says:
"All States shall cooperate to the fullest possible extent in the
repression of piracy on the high seas or in any other place outside the
jurisdiction of any State."
> not "protect civilian shipping
> against piracy in Somalian territorial waters".
Well, let's hope we wouldn't breach territorial waters simply because of
a mandate by Bundestag. Given our track-record, this could very well
lead to World War 3 ;)
BTW: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters>
Territorial sea claims
200 nautical miles (370.4 km): [...] Somalia
They can't even police 12 nm.
>>> under German law, for example, fighting off
>>> pirates would be a police task,
>> Not in "emergency assistance", while another is under attack. Happened a
>> few times this year.
>
> But IIRC they were too far away to claim to be in "hot pursuit".
They are sending a Sea Lynx towards the ship under attack and the
pirates turn tail and run ;)
Roger Conroy
"Andre Ilausky" <ai_...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:4886fb36$0$19908$9b4e...@newsspool1.arcor-online.net...
They "usually" are peasant fishermen (Somali or Indonesian) taking a chance
on a quick profit.
In the case of the Somalis they are often connected to a tribal warlord,
while the Indonesians may be members of "jidadist" organisations.
Carribean pirates are usually part of the drug smuggling networks.
William Black
"Andre Ilausky" <ai_...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:4886fb36$0$19908$9b4e...@newsspool1.arcor-online.net...
> Juergen Nieveler schrieb:
>> Or rent out services from Blackwater?
>
> They have a single ship/boat/yacht or so.
And on current performance will probably start sinking passing ships at
random for no very good reason...
You can get away with slaughtering a bus queue in Iraq without much in the
way of problems, try that on the high seas and you may just upset the
French, who have proved remarkably humourless about such things...
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
William Black
"Juergen Nieveler" <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:Xns9AE4968B0136...@nieveler.org...
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> You can get away with slaughtering a bus queue in Iraq without much in
>> the way of problems, try that on the high seas and you may just upset
>> the French, who have proved remarkably humourless about such
>> things...
>
> Yacht was hijacked - they only attacked the pirates after they left the
> yacht, AND they took prisoners.
>
> I'd have expected them to simply bomb the yacht with pirates and
> hostages on board, purely because of "raison d'état"
One assumes that if they ever let the RN out of their muzzle they'd act a
touch rabid as well, but so far there's no sign...
hcobb
wrote:
> One assumes that if they ever let the RN out of their muzzle they'd act a
> touch rabid as well, but so far there's no sign...
They found out a long time ago that a daily grog ration keeps the
scurvy dogs in line.
-HJC
hcobb
<juergen.nieveler.nos...@arcor.de> wrote:
> But as recently discussed, the grog rations were stopped quite some
> time ago...
And the Royal Navy has been in a death spiral ever since.
-HJC
Andre Ilausky
> "Andre Ilausky" <ai_...@arcor.de> wrote in message
>>> Imagine the look on the pirates' faces if they encounter a modern version
>>> of the HSK Kormoran :-)
>> Then let's hope the pirates aren't regular navy personnel on a real
>> warship ;)
>
> They "usually" are peasant fishermen (Somali or Indonesian) taking a chance
> on a quick profit.
<http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/BG1379.cfm>
June 22, 2000
[...]
The problems of underpaid maritime security forces and smuggling infect
China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy as well. Recent reports
describe documented attacks on a number of ships on the high seas that
were boarded by personnel from military gunboats bearing the markings of
the PLA Navy. The pirates reportedly were dressed in PLA Navy uniforms.
These reports illustrate that although piracy is not condoned in the
regional maritime security forces, the temptation to participate in it
or to turn a blind eye to it in exchange for kickbacks or bribes appears
to be very strong.
Who knows, maybe a "Kormoran 2" would also meet a warship
in combat one day - like the original did (HMAS Sydney) ;)
> In the case of the Somalis they are often connected to a tribal warlord,
> while the Indonesians may be members of "jidadist" organisations.
> Carribean pirates are usually part of the drug smuggling networks.
The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have even an "official" navy - the
Sea Tigers. I wonder, if the government of "Tamil Eelam" issues Letters
of Marque? ;)