Report: Bush Admin Raised Terror Alert Based On Con Man's Al Jazeera 'Decoding' Scam
Jack Linthicum
scam artist who claimed to read the code in Al Jazerra broadcasts. Got
the color code raised in December 2003. The idea at the time that the
system was a joke sounds better than what actually happened.
Report: Bush Admin Raised Terror Alert Based On Con Man's Al Jazeera
'Decoding' Scam
Justin Elliott | December 21, 2009, 9:32AM
Then-Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge making an announcement
about the Code Orange terror alert in December 2003.
A self-styled Nevada codebreaker convinced the CIA he could decode
secret terrorist targeting information sent through Al Jazeera
broadcasts, prompting the Bush White House to raise the terror alert
level to Orange (high) in December 2003, with Tom Ridge warning of
"near-term attacks that could either rival or exceed what we
experience on September 11," according to a new report in Playboy. 1/
The report deals another blow to the credibility of the Department of
Homeland Security's color-coded terror alert system, and comes after
Ridge's claim that the system was used as a political tool when he was
DHS secretary.
The man who prompted the December 2003 Orange alert was Dennis
Montgomery, who has since been embroiled in various lawsuits,
including one for allegedly bouncing $1 million in checks during a
Caesars Palace spree. His former lawyer calls him a "habitual liar
engaged in fraud."
Working out of a Reno, Nevada, software firm called eTreppid
Technologies, Montgomery took in officials in the CIA's Directorate of
Science and Technology and convinced them that technology he invented
-- but could not explain -- was pulling terrorist-produced "bar codes"
from Al Jazeera television broadcasts. Using his proprietary
technology, those bar codes could be translated into longitudes and
latitudes and flight numbers. Terrorist leaders were using that data
to direct their compatriots about the next target.
But Montgomery's "technology" could not be reproduced, and the Playboy
piece explains how he fell out of favor after word of what was going
on spread in the CIA:
The federal government was acting on the Al Jazeera claims without
even understanding how Montgomery found his coordinates. "I said,
'Give us the algorithms that allowed you to come up with this stuff.'
They wouldn't even do that," says the first officer. "And I was
screaming, 'You gave these people fucking money?'" ...
A former CIA official went through the scenario with me and
explained why sanity finally won out. First, Montgomery never
explained how he was finding and interpreting the bar codes. How could
one scientist find the codes when no one else could? More implausibly,
the scheme required Al Jazeera's complicity. At the very least, a
technician at the network would have to inject the codes into video
broadcasts, and every terrorist operative would need some sort of
decoding device. What would be the advantage of this method of
transmission?
A branch of the French intelligence services helped convince the
Americans that the bar codes were fake. The CIA and the French
commissioned a technology company to locate or re-create codes in the
Al Jazeera transmission. They found definitively that what Montgomery
claimed was there was not. Quietly, as far as the CIA was concerned,
the case was closed. The agency turned the matter over to the
counterintelligence side to see where it had gone wrong.
Former Homeland Security adviser Frances Townsend defended the use of
Montgomery's "intelligence" in an interview with Playboy, telling the
magazine, "It didn't seem beyond the realm of possibility. We were
relying on technical people to tell us whether or not it was feasible.
I don't regret having acted on it."
Check out this New York Times article 1/ from the time, which reported
that the decision to raise the threat level "came after intense
consultations over the weekend among intelligence agencies, which had
picked up recent talk among extremists about some unspecified but
spectacular attack."
But even after the CIA abandoned Montgomery, he appears to have
convinced other agencies that his decoding technology was legit. He
inked a $3 million research contract with the Air Force in January of
this year. An official explained to Playboy, "We were just looking at
[software] to see if there was anything there."
The full story by Aram Roston in Playboy is definitely worth a read.
1/http://www.playboy.com/articles/the-man-who-conned-the-pentagon-
dennis-montgomery/index.html
David E. Powell
and having nothing happen wasn't the worst option. Not going on alert
and having something happen would have been the bigger worry.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> In 2003 it wasn't like people weren't a bit jumpy, and going on alert
> and having nothing happen wasn't the worst option. Not going on alert
> and having something happen would have been the bigger worry.
Yes, I remember. Every time someone vaguely connected to the
Democratic Party looked good for 15 seconds we had another alert.
Sometimes to the astonishment of the people in charge of that
particular operation.
Alan Lothian
<2f4a475e-f2a0-4749...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
That's true enough, but only up to a certain point. "Henny Penny, the
sky is falling" eventually, and indeed quickly, becomes seriously
counter=productive. In the UK many this week are celebrating the
retirement of Sir Liam Donaldson, the Government's Scaremonger-General:
"hundreds of thousands will die of SAR; er, Avian Flu; er, AIDS, er,
drinking small glasses of wine under the age of 15; er, Swine Flu.
Passive breathing was the one problem he never mastered. Something
really should be done about passive breathing: all that CO2.
The overworked Sir Liam never quite got round to the appalling health
risks attached to picking your own nose, either. Doubtless he will be
working on it through his gold-plated retirement.
Someday something serious will arise, and no one will believe a word
the current Scaremonger-General says. Don't tell me it's so very
different on the other side of the Pond.
Mark my words: the so-called "Precautionary Principle" marks the end of
the Enlightenment, and indeed Western civilization. Still, we can
resist. I will, anyway, and I doubt if I will be alone. Aux armes,
citoyens! Bugger, it's snowing again.
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
Blueyonder is a thing of the past.
Jack Linthicum
> In article
> <2f4a475e-f2a0-4749-87ba-bbf6a086a...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/tom-ridge-admits-terror-alerts-were-use
David E. Powell
> In article
> <2f4a475e-f2a0-4749-87ba-bbf6a086a...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > In 2003 it wasn't like people weren't a bit jumpy, and going on alert
> > and having nothing happen wasn't the worst option. Not going on alert
> > and having something happen would have been the bigger worry.
>
> That's true enough, but only up to a certain point. "Henny Penny, the
> sky is falling" eventually, and indeed quickly, becomes seriously
> counter=productive. In the UK many this week are celebrating the
> retirement of Sir Liam Donaldson, the Government's Scaremonger-General:
> "hundreds of thousands will die of SAR; er, Avian Flu; er, AIDS, er,
> drinking small glasses of wine under the age of 15; er, Swine Flu.
> Passive breathing was the one problem he never mastered. Something
> really should be done about passive breathing: all that CO2.
>
> The overworked Sir Liam never quite got round to the appalling health
> risks attached to picking your own nose, either. Doubtless he will be
> working on it through his gold-plated retirement.
>
> Someday something serious will arise, and no one will believe a word
> the current Scaremonger-General says. Don't tell me it's so very
> different on the other side of the Pond.
>
> Mark my words: the so-called "Precautionary Principle" marks the end of
> the Enlightenment, and indeed Western civilization. Still, we can
> resist. I will, anyway, and I doubt if I will be alone. Aux armes,
> citoyens! Bugger, it's snowing again.
Well at least that disproves global warming, or maybe not.
Depends who you ask....
David E. Powell
wrote:
No, we had alerts quite often. I don't believe they were politically
connected. Nobody in any beauracracy wanted to go down as the one who
didn't report a lead or put something out there, not while the 9/11
Commision was going on, though some of the people on it (Gorelick)
should have been answering the questions instead of asking them. It
wasn't "Oh let's make one party bad" far from it, it was "Let's try to
make the past look good, but put out any possible alert because we're
all worried about looking bad if we don't."
Jack Linthicum
Please, these are adults here. Note date of article.
Friday, Jul. 07, 2006
Toying With Terror Alerts?
By JOSHUA MICAH MARSHALL
In these perilous days, we must be ready to think the unthinkable. No,
I don't mean the possibility of a catastrophic terrorist attack. After
9/11, that's all too easy to imagine. No, I'm talking about a thought
that even now seldom forces its way into respectable conversation: the
quite reasonable suspicion that the Bush Administration orchestrates
its terror alerts and arrests to goose the GOP's poll numbers.
Now, I'm a respectable columnist. I don't want to draw rolled eyes.
But think about it.
The 18 months prior to the 2004 presidential election witnessed a
barrage of those ridiculous color-coded terror alerts, quashed-plot
headlines and breathless press conferences from Administration
officials. Warnings of terror attacks over the Christmas 2003
holidays, warnings over summer terror attacks at the 2004 political
conventions, then a whole slew of warnings of terror attacks to
disrupt the election itself. Even the timing of the alerts seemed to
fall with odd regularity right on the heels of major political events.
One of Department of Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge's terror
warnings came two days after John Kerry picked John Edwards as his
running mate; another came three days after the end of the Democratic
convention.
So it went right through the 2004 election. And then not long after
the champagne corks stopped popping at Bush campaign headquarters,
terror alerts seemed to go out of style. The color codes became
yesterday's news. With the exception of one warning about mass-transit
facilities in response to the London bombing on July 7, 2005, that was
pretty much it until this summer. I live in lower Manhattan and my
wife works in a building overlooking Ground Zero. So I want to know
when something's really up and not worry that I'm getting bamboozled
to amp the President's approval rating.
Can I prove any of this was politically motivated? Of course not. But
that's the magic of the terror-alert song and dance. There's no way to
know. All the key facts are veiled in secrecy, as they must be. So
it's impossible to know from the outside whether it's on the level or
not. But with another election looming, it seems we're about to get a
bunch of new chances to wonder.
On June 23, cable-news channels went gonzo over a raid on a homegrown
terror cell in Miami that foiled an alleged plot to blow up Chicago's
Sears Tower. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales held a press conference
to announce the arrests. Even Vice President Dick Cheney weighed in
and called the group a "very real threat." He did so at a political
fundraiser.
But as often is the case in these announcements, it turned out to be a
lot less than advertised, unless you were a writer for Saturday Night
Live. When the FBI raided the abandoned warehouse where the group hung
out in Miami's impoverished Liberty City neighborhood, they found no
weapons, no money and no evidence of ties to any terrorist group
anywhere. Indeed, these would-be jihadis were so early in their
planning for jihad that they hadn't yet set aside time to become
Muslims. The group, according to a follow-up report from Reuters,
"mixes Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and
Taoism." Their covert methods included taking turns guarding the
abandoned warehouse (which served as their clubhouse) wearing black
uniforms, ski masks and combat boots in the hot Florida summer. Their
leader, Narseal Batiste, roamed the streets in a bathrobe with a
crooked wooden staff recruiting men to join his group. The oath of
allegiance to al-Qaeda they allegedly made to an FBI informant seems
as likely as not to have been prompted by the informants' offer of new
pairs of boots for the gang. Shoes were apparently in short supply.
You don't need to be a Muslim or even that bright a bulb to create
deadly mayhem. Richard Reid, the would-be shoe bomber, was a klutz,
but one who might have downed an airliner en route to the U.S. in the
days after 9/11. But the Miami warehouse cult that gave Cheney the
willies seemed like they'd have trouble finding a Sears let alone
blowing up the Sears Tower.
Two weeks later there was another report of a foiled plot, this one a
far more serious-sounding scheme to blow up the Holland Tunnel, which
connects New Jersey to Manhattan. Sensing their credibility might be
running thin, FBI officials as well as members of media started
referring to these plotters as the "real deal" plotters, presumably to
distinguish them from whack jobs in Miami. These guys too, it turned
out, hadn't done much more than talk in an Internet chat room about
blowing something up. And their plan to flood downtown New York City
with sea water from a demolished tunnel would have been complicated a
bit by the fact that, unlike New Orleans, Manhattan is well above sea
level.
The "tell" in this case was the date. The FBI got wind of this plot
last summer and arrests were made back in April. So why did we hear
about them on July 7, the anniversary of the London bombings? I
believe the question answers itself. The story was leaked to pump up
the anniversary of the London subway bombings on July 7, 2005, and
remind people that if it could happen in London it could happen here.
The dozens if not hundreds of law enforcement folks who worked on
thwarting this embryonic plot were not part of some political scheme.
But whoever chose July 7 to leak the story clearly was. With the mid-
term election less than four months away, for some people, that's a
helpful message.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1211369,00.html
dott.Piergiorgio
> Playboy article, yes some people read the stories, about a Las Vegas
> scam artist who claimed to read the code in Al Jazerra broadcasts. Got
> the color code raised in December 2003. The idea at the time that the
> system was a joke sounds better than what actually happened.
First the light side: perhaps will be interesting that you post links to
this magazine's specialization, that is, how to put with style ? Female
Aesthetic ? after all, it's somewhat Naval ;)
On to the more serious aspects, that the colour code was questionable,
and I suspect everyone can agree that was (is?) rather counter-intuitive
(even I don't remember the exact order...) Orange was the second top
colour ? Anyway, thanks to the Divine that they don't have put Amber in
the mix, whose have led to major, if not massive misunderstandments
between child protection and anti-terrorism.....
> A branch of the French intelligence services helped convince the
> Americans that the bar codes were fake. The CIA and the French
> commissioned a technology company to locate or re-create codes in the
> Al Jazeera transmission. They found definitively that what Montgomery
> claimed was there was not. Quietly, as far as the CIA was concerned,
> the case was closed. The agency turned the matter over to the
> counterintelligence side to see where it had gone wrong.
well, if really was needed the help of a *foreign* service to put saner
concepts and sort out the issue, it's an *HUGE* the Divine bless America....
Aside that this "counterintelligence side" seems to me a sort of
euphemism for the FBI... *sigh*
> But even after the CIA abandoned Montgomery, he appears to have
> convinced other agencies that his decoding technology was legit. He
> inked a $3 million research contract with the Air Force in January of
> this year. An official explained to Playboy, "We were just looking at
> [software] to see if there was anything there."
So, the thing was publicly revealed only because of the UAV broadcast
SNAFU ? but wasn't supposed to exist a "quack blacklist" in the military
& intelligence procurement ? and, as I guess, if actually exists, how
the air farce has done a so dearly oversight ???? (whose I suspect will
be frowned not only by the GAO....)
saying that I'm astonished is rather mild....
Best regards from Italy, and the Divine really bless America,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
Alan Lothian
<e514ef48-41e8-47e1...@g12g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
David E. Powell <David_Po...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Well at least that disproves global warming, or maybe not.
>
> Depends who you ask....
Quite. And quote:
�In August was the jackal born;
The Rains fell in September;
�Now such a fearful flood as this,�
Says he, �I can�t remember!��
Note that this, from Kipling's Second Jungle Book, could be applied to
either side of the GW argument. Consider it a cautionary observation,
no more. Not as stupid as he looked, old Rudyard.
Snow stopped here, lots of (for winter solstice) warmish rain. So GW is
winning right now.
OBsmn: HMS Kipling and Second Battle of Sirte. She *was* named after
Kipling; his daughter launched her. Rescued Lord Mountbatten, too, when
that other K-class Kelly went down, and under constant air attack at
the time. There were those who did not consider this a battle honour
but that is to say the least uncharitable.
http://www.kipling.org.uk/facts_hms.htm
is better than average for these old boys' things. Much better. And
Kipling did get U-75.
Alan Dicey
>
> OBsmn: HMS Kipling and Second Battle of Sirte. She *was* named after
> Kipling; his daughter launched her. Rescued Lord Mountbatten, too, when
> that other K-class Kelly went down, and under constant air attack at
> the time. There were those who did not consider this a battle honour
> but that is to say the least uncharitable.
> http://www.kipling.org.uk/facts_hms.htm
> is better than average for these old boys' things. Much better. And
> Kipling did get U-75.
>
Destroyers. "The Choosers of the Slain" He did have a way with words.
Great man, Kipling. Last poet who could speak to any Briton, lowest to
highest, and be appreciated. Gets denounced as a lackey of imperialism,
and some of his stuff is hard to read nowadays without Victorian
blinkers on; but there are some that move me deeply even today.
Paul J. Adam
Dicey <al...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> writes
>Destroyers. "The Choosers of the Slain" He did have a way with words.
"A soldier of the Great War, known unto God" for the graves of the
unidentified: Kipling's words, likely over his own son's resting place.
>Great man, Kipling. Last poet who could speak to any Briton, lowest to
>highest, and be appreciated. Gets denounced as a lackey of
>imperialism, and some of his stuff is hard to read nowadays without
>Victorian blinkers on; but there are some that move me deeply even today.
Seconded.
--
He thinks too much, such men are dangerous.
Paul J. Adam
Alan Lothian
<ne...@jrwlynchANDNOTTHIS.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Thirded. Don't know how I missed this: server lag or my own
incompetence. Both, perhaps.
Kipling, in effect writing about the death of his son Jack (a far
crueller death than the old man knew at the time):
If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.
and then there's the eye-tearing firing squad couplet (this from memory)
I could not look on Death. This being known
Men led me to him blindfold, and alone.
George Orwell got his knickers in something of a twist in his long and
intelligent essay on Kipling: good bad writing etc. Kipling never wrote
badly. (Neither did Orwell.) He may have, from time to time, written
wrongly (as did Orwell) but that's an entirely different matter.
He's also the *only* English writer ever to have made a good fist of
Scots: MacAndrew's Hymn. Obsmn. You can read every single word of it in
a true Scots voice without once wincing. The cadence is damn near
perfect, and that's no small achievement. Lord, Thou has made the world
below/The shadow of a dream. And taught by time I tak' it so/Excepting
always steam. From memory. Kipling has a way of sticking in your
memory. Predestination in the stride/of yon connecting rod. Etc.
Iron, said the cannoneer, shooting from the wall
Iron, cold iron, shall be master of us all.
Note that the above (again from memory) is actually part of a
profoundly religious poem. From memory. Again and again. That makes
Kipling a great, not just a good, poet. In my book. I don't give a shit
if he's an unfashionable imperialist (he was, in fact, very subtle
about his imperialism). But he'll be remembered when NuLabour is one
with Nineveh and Tyre. Kipling again. Lest we forget.
Fred J. McCall
:In article <KlSgTxCl$+MLF...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk>, Paul J. Adam
:
One of the few poets I actually like and whose works I relate to.
"There are wolves at large in the world ... Some of them are the
good guys..." -- "Leverage"
--
"Now this is the Law of the Jungle --
as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper,
but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk
the Law runneth forward and back --
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-- "The Law of the Jungle", Rudyard Kipling
Alan Lothian
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the few poets I actually like and whose works I relate to.
Try your own Robert Lowell:
this from The Quaker Graveyard in Nantucket, and obsmn, too.
I see the Quakers drown and hear their cry:
"If God himself had not been on our side,
If God himself had not been on our side,
When the Atlantic rose against us, why,
Then it had swallowed us up quick."
Rooted in Psalm 124, but Lowell Lowelled it. I love the repeated second
and third line. Clever bastard, Lowell. Shouldn't work but it does.
I always liked Housman's "definition" of good poetry as something that
made your bristles stand up when you were shaving. Sexist, to be sure,
and no obvious female equivalent. (Oh, there will be one somewhere.
Different wiring, is all.)
Indeed, since it's New Year's Day, I will paste in what are probably
Housman's own most famous eight lines: his "Epitaph for an Army of
Mercenaries". He is, of course, referring to the 1914 BEF.
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling,
And took their wages, and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay.
Passes the bristle test for me. Soldiers are mostly lunatic romantics,
almost as bad as sailors, and I have seen these lines bring tears to
the eyes of much-bemedalled, ah, drunks. They were sober in the
morning, of course, but the lines remain.
I plead New Year's Day indulgence.
Alan Lothian
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Lothian <alanl...@mac.com> wrote:
>
<snip of Housman poem>
> :
> :I plead New Year's Day indulgence.
> :
>
> No pleading or indulgence necessary. I guess I'm just one of those
> lunatic romantics...
Generous of you, Fred.
>
> [I also cry when I hear 'Taps' or see aircraft go over 'Missing Man'.]
I once spent two hours or so (it was supposed to be about 5 minutes) in
the rear turret of a (grounded) Lancaster bomber. God knows where my
head went, but it went.
As for Taps, or as we call it, the Last Post.... I actually went out of
my way to avoid the daily Menin Gate ceremony because I didn't want to
make a weeping fool of myself. Mind you, if I must be a fool I'd rather
be one who can weep than one who merely giggles.
And the November 11 ceremonies in this little town... I believe I
posted some details. But the long, long (read-out) lists of names from
very small villages: Mort pour la France, Mort pour la France.... I
know how anti-French you can be but you'd have cried your eyes out too,
I'd bet you cash money on that one. Note the absolute necessity of
standing, silent, at attention out of respect, so you can't even wipe
your eyes and your tears must dry in the wind.
Stupid sentimental lunatic romantic sod that you are, Fred. I am at
least as bad.
Jack Linthicum
> In article <0hv2k59dkfod7f36rp325a3l4gj9o0f...@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>
> <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:
I lived nexty to Fort Meyer in Virginia for five years. You can get
tired op Taps.
Alex Potter
> And the November 11 ceremonies in this little town...
I, too, cry my eyes out at such ceremonies. I'd thought I was just a
silly old sod, but perhaps I'm wrong...
For the record, I've never served in the armed forces.
--
Regards
Alex
Richard Casady
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>[I also cry when I hear 'Taps' or see aircraft go over 'Missing Man'.]
I used to live across the street from a cemetery. Heard taps and
gunfire regularly. I did ask the employees to be silent until it was
over. We felt that thirty seconds of somewhat respect was not too much
to ask.
Casady
Jeffrey Hamilton
Alan, Fred *_does not_* have sentimental feelings regarding November 11th in
anyway shape or form, Fred simply doesn't respect the Commonwealth's
contribution to the defeat of their enemy in two world wars.
Possibly you missed his rant when _nilita_ had the *audacity* to post a
picture of her late parents in their WW II Canadian Forces uniforms, _on_
November 11th here on s.m.n.!
cheers.....Jeff
Alan Lothian
<bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
> Alan Lothian wrote:
>
<snippaggio of what Alan wrote>
> Alan, Fred *_does not_* have sentimental feelings regarding November 11th in
> anyway shape or form, Fred simply doesn't respect the Commonwealth's
> contribution to the defeat of their enemy in two world wars.
We got off light. Only a million in Big Mistake 1, and something like
400K in Big Mistake II. Fred may speak for himself. It's the social
costs of the dying, which is why I made the point about the little
French town with its long, long lists. BM I cost the Frogs damn near 2
million, and so many, many of them from tiny little places, where they
represented most of the young men. Brits think of the Somme, which was
pretty damned bad, I agree. They don't think of Champagne (not the
fizzy drink), Verdun and the Chemain des Dames. Plenty more, too, with
lots of dead young frogs.
In BMII, in Britain the war of the first generation of educated
working-class grammar school boys. BMI took 48,000 young officers, and
inspired a generation of well-written but frankly historically silly
books. Bomber Command helped itself to 55,000. There were few surviving
poets to record their passing.
Here's one, though, from John Pudney:
Do not despair
For Johnny-head-in-air;
He sleeps as sound
As Johnny underground.
Fetch out no shroud
For Johnny-in-the-cloud;
And keep your tears
For him in after years.
Better by far
For Johnny-the-bright-star,
To keep your head,
And see his children fed.
Pudney wasn't even in BC, but he got the general idea. The poem was
used in a certain, very sentimental, film.
Gavin Ewart was probably the best RAF poet, although he was Coastal,
and not BC. Coastal wasn't quite so horrible, but it had its moments.
Here we go:
When a Beau goes in
Into the drink
It makes you think,
Because, you see, they always sink;
But nobody says "Poor lad!"
Or goes about looking sad;
Because, you see, it's war,
It's the unalterable law.
Although it's perfectly certain
The pilot's gone for a Burton
And the observer too,
It's nothing to do with you;
And if they both should go
To a land where falls no rain nor hail nor driven snow--
Here, there, or anywhere,
Do you suppose THEY care?
You shouldn't cry
Or say a prayer or sigh.
In the cold sea, in the dark
It isn't a lark
But it isn't Original Sin--
It's just a Beau going in.
The last two lines of the above have an utterly chilling power, at
least for me. Anyway, I think I have used up my entire 2010
poetry-posting ration on smn. It's just a Beau going in... Jesus. Good
poets on their best days can be very, very frightening.
For those who need footnotes, a "Beau" is either a Beaufighter or a
Beaufort. Makes no difference to the poem. It's just a Beau going in.
This posting undoubtedly involves a breach of copyright, but dead poets
don't usually mind and I don't give a monkey's about publishers. Let
them sue.
"In the cold sea, in the dark
It isn't a lark"
Shudders. Poor dear brave dead young men.
>
> Possibly you missed his rant when _nilita_ had the *audacity* to post a
> picture of her late parents in their WW II Canadian Forces uniforms, _on_
> November 11th here on s.m.n.!
I did indeed miss it. Fred rants too much for his own good, but la
Nilita is beginning seriously to piss me off.
Arved Sandstrom
Fred ticks _me_ off from time to time, but in fairness to the crotchety
bugger, the reason he took LaN to task for doing that was because he
felt it was grandstanding: he felt it was her puffing herself up by
showing off her folks. He may have been right or he may have been wrong,
but that's clearly where he was coming from. And quite frankly I recall
feeling the same way when I saw Nilita's post back then; I just didn't
say anything about it.
I don't recall Fred impugning her parents, and I don't believe for a
second that he thinks the US won either of the two world wars on its own.
AHS
La N
> >
> Fred ticks _me_ off from time to time, but in fairness to the
> crotchety bugger, the reason he took LaN to task for doing that was
> because he felt it was grandstanding: he felt it was her puffing
> herself up by showing off her folks. He may have been right or he may
> have been wrong, but that's clearly where he was coming from. And
> quite frankly I recall feeling the same way when I saw Nilita's post
> back then; I just didn't say anything about it.
Well, you've said it now.
How do you get me "puffing up" by showing a photo of my deceased parents on
Remembrance Day, who both served in the military in WWII, as one of the many
reminders of why that day is very poignant for me. That was the first time
I ever was "brave" enough to do that in a group of guys of whom many,
including you, see yourselves as heroes on the Usenet warfront. I featured
that photo in other places, and it compelled people to share memories and
photos of their own parents/grandparents, etc. and to share with me the pain
and the pride of having family members who have made the ultimate sacrifice.
You, Arved, and F***, were the lone POSs in this regard. Shame, shame,
shame. I shall never look at you, Arved, in the same way, especially since
you have admitted publicly that most of your own service was served either
drunk or in the hoosegaw.
Shame on you.
- nilita
La N
>
> I did indeed miss it. Fred rants too much for his own good, but la
> Nilita is beginning seriously to piss me off.
Well, here's a hint. Do not read me. Do not respond to me. Do not post
your patronizing and often vulgar crap to me. And do NOT call yourself a
Christian. Not even JC wants you to say or do anything in His name, because
by your behaviour and your words, you are not doing Him a favour.
- nilita (hath spoken)
La N
>
> Possibly you missed his rant when _nilita_ had the *audacity* to post
> a picture of her late parents in their WW II Canadian Forces
> uniforms, _on_ November 11th here on s.m.n.!
>
Jeff, thank you. There was/is no need to defend me, as this just brings out
the ugliness in some people.
Having said that, I'm cooked. I'm done. This used to be a place of fun and
learning, and a lot of the people who used to participate here who would
make me laugh and answer my questions and with whom I enjoyed bantering, and
most have gone from this place and from Usenet.
I have had the honour of knowing some real military heroes in my own family,
in my work, and among my friendships. They will always remain a special
part of my life.
Obviously, my presence has caused an unnecessary disruption in recent times,
and this certainly was not my intention.
So, I am outta here, and that is good on so many levels because I have been
too badly BADLY distracted from my w*rk and my plans to head to the US again
in the not too distant future.
Of course, there are several from here with whom I will maintain contact and
know where to find me.
So, this is nilita ...
signing OUT.
PS: Best wishes to all in the New Year. May all your dreams come true.
Arved Sandstrom
I'm sorry you took it that way. But I believe one thing that Fred
remarked upon was your concentration on _you_. I note above that
apparently we needed a reminder why Nov 11th is poignant for _you_: I'm
sorry, but I don't need that reminder, and evidently neither did Fred.
Last I checked Remembrance Day was a day for commemorating those who
made the ultimate sacrifice, not for their surviving relatives to
commemorate themselves.
Cheap shot on your way out, Nilita. Very classy. Your memory is for crap
also - somehow I don't think I would have got an Honorable discharge, an
NCM, and several meritorious promotions if I'd spent most of my service
drunk or in the brig. In fact I've never been in the brig as a prisoner
- I've just been in the brig a number of times.
AHS
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
>
> So, I am outta here,
Well...my dear ass-kissing airhead...go sit next to your phony hero "billzz"
ha ha ha
;-)
Alan Lothian
<nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Alan Lothian wrote:
> >
> > I did indeed miss it. Fred rants too much for his own good, but la
> > Nilita is beginning seriously to piss me off.
>
> Well, here's a hint. Do not read me. Do not respond to me. Do not post
> your patronizing and often vulgar crap to me.
Not to worry.
> And do NOT call yourself a
> Christian.
That is NOT for you to decide. How fucking dare you try to tell what I
may or may not call myself?
> Not even JC wants you to say or do anything in His name, because
> by your behaviour and your words, you are not doing Him a favour.
You'd know, though, eh?
>
> - nilita (hath spoken)
Arrividerci. <plonk>
Alan Lothian
<dce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snippaggio>
> Cheap shot on your way out, Nilita. Very classy.
Indeed. I think the thing known over on soc.history.what-if as the
Brain Eater has got her. Well, she's in my killfile now. I don't take
kindly to mortal insults, and I can't challenge a woman to a duel.
Assuming she actually *is* a woman, of course: you never can tell on
the wilderness of the Net. Now there's a thought. To be sure, there is
something feminine about her rampant stupidity: men tend to be stupid
in different ways. But you never know.
> Your memory is for crap
> also - somehow I don't think I would have got an Honorable discharge, an
> NCM, and several meritorious promotions if I'd spent most of my service
> drunk or in the brig. In fact I've never been in the brig as a prisoner
> - I've just been in the brig a number of times.
Harrumph. With you here all the way, Arved. How fucking dare she.
Jeffrey Hamilton
> And here's Jif for Round #6 of his stupid little vendetta.
>
>>
>> Possibly you missed his rant when _nilita_ had the *audacity* to
>> post a picture of her late parents in their WW II Canadian Forces
>> uniforms, _on_ November 11th here on s.m.n.!
>>
>
It was homage to her late parents. You silly little miscreant.
> This is a 'rant' about your usual "Jeffrey Hamilton is a FUCKTARD"
> approach, Skippy.
No I'm merely pointing out _your_ usual sociopathic gyrations with which you
insist on abusing every NG you infest, you obsessive gutless *fuckwit*.
FOAD
cheers.....Jeff
Jeffrey Hamilton
Why should YOU or FRED, give a rats ass if a woman remembers and/or pays
homage to her late parents (both of whom were in the WW 2 Canadian military)
on Rememberance Day ? This is a military NG afterall, so it seems a pretty
appropriate place to do so, to me anyway.
Rememberance Day is _not_ just a day for the dead, Arved, here in Canada
it's _the day_ we salute and honour _all_ our servicepeople. I'm surprised
you don't know that, Arved, you've lived and worked in Canada for quite some
time, I believe.
I wouldn't dream of questioning an American's reason for paying respects to
members of their family who were or are in the service, on America's day of
rememberance. It would never occur to me they were doing it merely for
*grandstanding self-puffery*. Now is that the difference between _me_ and
Americans, or between _me_ and you and Fred ?
Fred attacks nilita because that's what Fred does.
He's been obsessively doing it for years.
Fred is not a "crotchety bugger", Fred is a sociopath !
It is an illness and Fred *is* a mentally sick individual and he's getting
sicker and sicker with each passing year. It's very evident if you read him
as often as I do.
Do you actually *_know_* why Novenber 11th, is *_so_* cherished here in
Canada, Arved ? If not, say so and I'll explain it to you, it's really quite
simple actually.
cheers.....Jeff
Strobe
>In article <Ous0n.2043$5m....@newsfe12.iad>, Jeffrey Hamilton
><bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>> Alan Lothian wrote:
>>
>
><snippaggio of what Alan wrote>
>
>> Alan, Fred *_does not_* have sentimental feelings regarding November 11th in
>> anyway shape or form, Fred simply doesn't respect the Commonwealth's
>> contribution to the defeat of their enemy in two world wars.
>
>We got off light. Only a million in Big Mistake 1, and something like
>400K in Big Mistake II. Fred may speak for himself. It's the social
>costs of the dying, which is why I made the point about the little
>French town with its long, long lists. BM I cost the Frogs damn near 2
>million, and so many, many of them from tiny little places, where they
>represented most of the young men. Brits think of the Somme, which was
>pretty damned bad, I agree. They don't think of Champagne (not the
>fizzy drink), Verdun and the Chemain des Dames. Plenty more, too, with
>lots of dead young frogs.
In the 50s I spent a few months camping in the Vosge, courtesy of HMG.
The collapsing trenches from WW1 were still easily visible, criss-crossed by the
more recent ones. I remember the little, neatly kept cemeteries at nearly
every crossroads.
I got a lump in my throat there, but I did cry in 1979 at a British war grave in
Jerusalem - with fresh flowers on it.
And I, like many of us, had maiden aunts - their boy friends had died on the
Somme,and there just weren't enough lads left to go around.
Soldiers pay a terrible price - but those they leave behind suffer longer.
As a teen I met Edmund Blunden at a school cricket match, but he talked only
about the game. Probably as well, I didn't then know what to ask him, or how.