Unruly children
Marsha
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_13680219?source=rss
Marsha
Judity
Judity
I've been on the many flights trapped in a long metal container with
cranky youngsters and their irresponsible parents. These children kick
the back of seats, yell and scream for attention, and otherwise make
the six hour, coast to coast ride feel like a trip to Hell.
My suggestion, Marsha? "Let the kids go outside and play!"
Judity
Sue -- Firefighter mom, Still UW Dawg fan!
Love it. I was on a late night flight with a stupid mother who thought
she'd book it late because her kids "would sleep". No, they would be
tired and excited. They were horrible and kicked the back of the seat.
I told her kid to quit it and she pitched a fit. I told her that I did
not have to put up with future burdens to society.
Sue M
Anne V
news:8a3c8a35-171c-4fbb...@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
I hear you; there's nothing more miserable than being trapped on a plane
with a howling toddler. OTOH, what do you do if you have to travel a huge
distance with your child as quickly as possible? There just ain't no way a
2-year-old is going to be happy and quiet for an entire 8-hour flight, no
matter how many toys and treats you bring along! I've been on both ends of
the scenario and sure wish I had the magic answer; have always had to just
keep reminding myself that we were all 2 and difficult at one time.
Anne
Marsha
It's true that some people find themselves in a situation where they
have to travel with their children. They have my full sympathy.
Unfortunately, it's hard to tell the difference between those folks and
the ones who think they have to haul their little monsters everywhere,
no matter who is inconvenienced.
Marsha
Barbara Carlson
which our children when they were very young--NJ to LA. The stewardesses
were really good. We had 3, and the oldest was a 4th grader. We had talked
to the children about the flight--they were to get to go to Disneyland, so
they really wanted to go. I don't think anyone was bothered by them, but
that was back in the days when it was fun to fly, seats weren't so cramped,
and planes were not short-staffed. I've been on some miserable flights with
kids, too, and while some couldn't be helped, others were just unreasonable.
I still remember one absolutely miserable flight back from London with the
kid in front of us letting out piercing shrieks sporadically throughout the
whole flight.
Barb C.
"Marsha" <m...@xeb.net> wrote in message news:hchn78$urb$2...@news.datemas.de...
Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply
almost-1-year-old and a 3YO (with my husband, too, so there was one
child per adult), and it wasn't anywhere nearly as bad as going camping
with them. But we had layovers on each flight. Still, there are ways
of keeping them calmer if you know what to do.
Rae
Probably now that is considered child abuse, but there is no reason
that makes it okay for everyone else to have to listen to that for
hours on end with no way to escape it. They were right to throw them
off the flight and they should not have refunded anything. If I were
on a plane in that situation I'd probably go postal - I CANNOT stand
hearing that noise.
Anne V
news:e9f8a1e4-446d-42d3...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Hmmmm....preflight Benadryl....
You're probably right about it being considered abusive, Rae, but it
actually doesn't sound like a bad idea to me! My younger daughter is flying
home to Hawaii with my 2-year-old grandson in a couple of months, and I know
she's absolutely dreading the flight. I may ask her if she's considered
giving him some Benadryl before they leave.
Anne
Petro Gibraltar
"Rae" <RaeMo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e9f8a1e4-446d-42d3...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
What medical condition would that MD be treating in his patient?
Rae
my daughter at about age 2 to 3. At that time, a Rx was required and
was provided by my pediatrician without any fuss at all. However, on
return trip my mother (an MD) said a little more wouldn't hurt her.
Unfortunately, apparently Benadryl can have the reverse effect on
children (and I think it still does in my now nearly 30-year-old DD).
She was pretty squirmy on the trip home. Something like Dramamine
might work well, too. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that at
all. Make things easier for all involved.
Sandi
> Anne V wrote:
> > "Judity" <Judit...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wow. I can only say, wow. I'm reminded of my friend, who 17 years
ago went out to eat with me, my then-6-year-old son, and my son's
friend. My son's friend was not the worst-behaved 6-year-old in the
world, but was not a seen-and-not-heard kid, either. My friend went
on a rant which wrapped up in a "no child or mine" statement. Three
children of hers later, we laugh together now about the ridiculousness
of that statement.
People travel. People have children. Children are children, not
miniature adults and not monsters. When adults are uncomfortable or
tired, they have an adult way of expressing it, and they have options
to address their discomfort. Children often do not. I'm saddened
every day by the children I see in the courthouse who are ignored or
treated in ways that we'd never dream of treating adults, until they
demand attention, and then they're little monsters.
Eh, off the soapbox. It's just a pet peeve of mine, the second class
citizens children are.
Sandi
Sandi
You seriously did not just suggest drugging children for your personal
convenience, did you?
Sandi
Sandi
I have a better idea. Drug yourself, and you won't care if there are
people under the age of 10 around.
Sandi
Sandi
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or better yet! Why don't we just get pet carriers for the little
buggers and ship them with the luggage? Odds are, you won't hear them
screaming down there.
Sandi
Marsha
Perhaps you misunderstood, or I am misunderstanding you. Of course
children aren't miniature adults. I'm not talking about fussy babies,
etc. I'm talking about children whose not-so-cute antics are passively
encouraged by their parent(s). Woe to anyone who dares to ask them to
keep their child from kicking your seat for an entire 4-hour trip.
Contrary to popular belief, it's not child abuse to discipline a child.
If you don't have to take a child on plane, it won't kill anyone if
they are left at home. This is no different than going to a restaurant
or movie. Everyone has the right to expect an enjoyable evening. Once,
my mother and I were at a restaurant. There was a table of about eight
adults and one child, less than 2. She was cranky, probably teething.
Cried and screamed the whole time we were there, at least 45 minutes.
Do you think her parents had enough sense to leave? Of course not; they
were too busy socializing. By that time, the whole restaurant was
glaring at them. Bottom line, if you don't have to take your kid with
you, and you're not sure they aren't going to make everyone around you
miserable, leave them at home if you can.
Marsha
Marsha
I think you're being a little too sensitive. We're not children haters.
You know perfectly well which little darlings we're talking about. We
know you work in a courtroom and we know you see neglected children all
the time. That's not what we're discussing.
Marsha
LizzieB.
> I think you're being a little too sensitive. We're not children
> haters. You know perfectly well which little darlings we're talking
> about. We know you work in a courtroom and we know you see neglected
> children all the time. That's not what we're discussing.
>
> Marsha
No, she's not being too sensitive.
Because "the little darlings we're talking about" mean different things
to different people.
--
LizzieB.
After six years of MT, I've caught a suspicious case of ennui.
This is how I've been amusing myself in my MT malaise:
http://theproviso.com
http://b10mediaworx.com
To mail, replace the k with an x.
Sandi
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not talking about the neglected (in the legal sense) children.
I'm talking about the children I see whose parents have business in
the courthouse, and anywhere else (Wal-Mart, restaurants, wherever)
for that matter. Many people treat their children as baggage they
have to drag along, not people who are to be given any kind of
respect. It's been my experience that if children are treated as
people, they tend to act as people (although little, inexperienced,
sometimes mischievious people).
Sandi
Sandi
I'm never sure I'm not going to make everyone around me miserable, or
that anyone else with me is not. It certainly doesn't mean I won't go
anywhere. If my child, normally well-behaved, starts acting up 10
minutes into a 4-hour flight, I'm not going to take him outside, am
I?
Sandi
Anne V
"Sandi" <sandiw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:61d5aba7-cc3e-4312...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I'm never sure I'm not going to make everyone around me miserable, or
that anyone else with me is not. It certainly doesn't mean I won't go
anywhere. If my child, normally well-behaved, starts acting up 10
minutes into a 4-hour flight, I'm not going to take him outside, am
I?
Sandi
Not only that, but how are children going to learn how to behave in public
if they're always left at home? My parents took us to fancy restaurants
when we were kids, we flew to Germany, etc., and that kind of experience
helped us to learn good manners. I took my kids pretty much EVERYWHERE with
me when they were little, and while I can't say they never acted up or
embarrassed me, they were generally very well-behaved, which I attribute to
the fact that they DID go everywhere with me and consequently learned what
was acceptable. People also need to keep in mind that we were all children
once, almost certainly acted up sometimes, and someone put up with us
anyway.
Anne
Anne V
Sandi
I hope that wasn't directed at me. Kids are going to act like kids, and I'm
well aware of that; I wouldn't want people getting huffy with my DD and SIL
because my grandkids weren't miniature adults. I was just kind of thinking
"out loud," trying to come up with ways to make my DD's flight a little
easier. She had a rough time with the normally very active little guy on
the 8-hour flight back to the mainland (fasten seatbelts sign was lit for at
least 6 hours of the flight, so she couldn't even get him out of his seat to
walk up the aisle and back occasionally).
I took a flight with my then 15-month-old daughter from Arizona to Ohio
once. She was incredibly good for the entire flight but had had enough of
being confined by the time we got into the airspace over Toledo, at which
point the pilot announced that we were going to be circling for a while
because there were nasty storms in the area. DD wailed off and on for the
entire hour we circled that airport, and I felt really fortunate that the
man in the seat behind me (DD was standing on my lap, looking over the seat)
kept playing with her and trying to help me entertain her. No-one seemed to
be impatient with her; the people around me acted sympathetic and tried to
help brighten her up. It sure helped the situation a lot more than
grumbling and nasty comments!
Anne
Sandi
> "Sandi" <sandiwork...@gmail.com> wrote in message
No, it wasn't directed at you; it was generally directed at the folks
who want children to just be the hell out of the way so they can have
a silent flight. I am pretty appalled by the medicating idea,
though. It is mentioned joking from time to time by many people, I'm
sure (including me!), but actually sedating a child for the
convenience of the people around the child is extremely inappropriate.
Sandi
Anne V
No, it wasn't directed at you; it was generally directed at the folks
who want children to just be the hell out of the way so they can have
a silent flight. I am pretty appalled by the medicating idea,
though. It is mentioned joking from time to time by many people, I'm
sure (including me!), but actually sedating a child for the
convenience of the people around the child is extremely inappropriate.
Sandi
Okay, I feel better now. :-) I imagine you're right about medicating;
Benadryl on a one-time basis seemed fairly benign to me, but it's not
something I ever did with my kids, either. OTOH, even if deemed acceptable,
it could also have exactly the opposite effect from the intended drowsiness.
One of my kids absolutely could not take any kind of antihistamine, Benadryl
included, without bouncing off the walls and being completely miserable.
What's the medication they used to give kids for itching when they had
chicken pox? Something that starts with a P? My doc prescribed that for
one of my kids when she had chicken pox, and one dose was all it took before
I flushed the whole bottle! Talk about miserable; high fever, all the
discomfort that goes with chicken pox, and bouncing off the walls, not able
to sleep... Nah, the Benadryl probably IS a bad idea, all round.
Sometimes I think it's really sad, the way both elderly people and children
seem to be looked down on in our society. They're by turn our wisdom and
our future, and it would behoove us all to remember it.
Anne
Marsha
> I'm not talking about the neglected (in the legal sense) children.
> I'm talking about the children I see whose parents have business in
> the courthouse, and anywhere else (Wal-Mart, restaurants, wherever)
> for that matter. Many people treat their children as baggage they
> have to drag along, not people who are to be given any kind of
> respect. It's been my experience that if children are treated as
> people, they tend to act as people (although little, inexperienced,
> sometimes mischievious people).
>
> Sandi
Okay, I understand what you mean now.
Marsha
Marsha
> I'm never sure I'm not going to make everyone around me miserable, or
> that anyone else with me is not. It certainly doesn't mean I won't go
> anywhere. If my child, normally well-behaved, starts acting up 10
> minutes into a 4-hour flight, I'm not going to take him outside, am
> I?
>
> Sandi
Well, I'm sure there are some who think you should, but not me. Yes,
you have to show children how to act in public, but it makes sense to
wait until they're a little older. What's a little older? Everyone has
a different idea and usually only the parent knows their child well
enough to decide. Maybe 5 or 6.
Marsha
kathycarp
LOL. Way to go Sandi. I have been sitting on my hands, chanting "I
will not post..." but I'm feeling a bit sassy tonight, (and it's not a
political topic) so here goes. I am usually on an airplane 3-4 trips a
year and my biggest nightmare is a child who is screaming with ear
pain. I'm talking about the cry that we all know. The I-can't-catch-my-
breath-because-I-am-in-so-much-pain cry. Tears me up because the child
is in PAIN and there's not a whole lot that can be done. As opposed to
the rambunctious/bored/fussy child, who can possibly be distracted.
Rather than complain about it, have any of you ever tried to lend a
helping hand? Not your job? Fine. Then sit there and listen to it, and
remember that what goes around comes around and karma's a bitch. When
you're old and alone, perhaps lost, in an airport, and youngins are
all ignoring you, remember that screaming kid and tired mom you could
have tried to help on the plane.
True story: Years ago, flying from Florida to Oregon - BIG plane, the
kind with the 8-10 seats across the middle section. There was a mom,
dad, and about a 10-month-old baby about 4 rows up from us, and across
the aisle. The plane hadn't taken off yet. The man sitting in front of
the mom (and baby on lap) whirled around in his seat and YELLED at the
mom - I SIMPLY *CANNOT* TOLERATE THE KICKING IN THE BACK OF THE SEAT!
The mom was so embarrassed. She apologized and tried to contain the
baby's feet, but he was wanting to squirm. The next time the man
turned around, I got out of my seat and walked up to him and said,
"Sir, would you like to trade seats with me." He looked at me like I
had lost my mind and said, "The kicking won't bother you?" I said,
"No, sir, it won't." He said, "But I'm traveling with my wife." I
said, "And I'm traveling with my husband. We'd both be happy to trade
with you." And so we did. When we were settled the mom and dad thanked
me profusely - and the baby went to sleep shortly after take off and
slept most of the way home. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the man
should have ignored the kicking, but he could have told her nicely
that the baby was kicking his seat. Flies. Sugar. Vinegar.
I feel sorry for the parent who has to travel with small kids, and I
reject the "leave 'em at home" philosophy. I'm (nearly) 60 years old
and I still remember kindnesses that were shown to me when my kids
were small. (Likewise the people who were kind to my mom when she was
confused and living in lala land and sometimes not socially
appropriate. She loved to go out to eat, but would stare
inappropriately at people, be a messy eater, and other things. Should
I have left her at home? It makes me sick to think that some people
would think "yes".) I know I have strayed a bit from the topic here,
but oh well.
Sandi, your post about putting them down with the luggage made me
laugh out loud. You probably said it in anger/frustration, but it
struck me funny.
K
Sandi
>
> - Show quoted text -
I said it in complete seriousness, because the attitude displayed here
toward the "little monsters" is one that those same posters would
probably never consider displaying towards their pets.
Sandi
Anne V
"kathycarp" <kath...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:abc687d8-03a3-4570...@f1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
K
Good for you, Kathy! It sounds like everyone had a better flight because of
your kindness.
Anne
Barbara Carlson
cause. If a child is old enough to understand, you can prepare them in
advance. Tell them to swallow frequently as the plane is taking off and
reaching altitude, or hold their nose and blow GENTLY as if they were
blowing their nose. On landing the swallowing will still help, but don't do
the blow gently thing or you can make it worse. For children old enough to
chew gum give them some before takeoff or landing. For babies anything that
will make them swallow, so a bottle during take off or landing will help,
maybe a pacifier would help--don't know I never used them. Last couple of
SCUBA dives I have done I have had trouble clearing my left ear, so I know
what kind of pain it can cause. Pressurized cabins are only pressurized to
equivalent of an 8,000 foot altitude. An antihistamine before flight might
help, too, so the Benedryl might have a positive effect there, but I do NOT
believe in drugging children to get them through stressful situations. How
will they ever learn to cope. I flew with my youngest when he was just 6
weeks old. A thoughtful stewardess sat next to me during takeoff and
landing so I could discretely allow my baby to nurse.
It's the bratty kids whose parents make no effort whatsoever to keep their
children under control that upsets most of, and the attitude that reasonable
discipline is child abuse.
Barb C.
"kathycarp" <kath...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:abc687d8-03a3-4570...@f1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Marsha
> I said it in complete seriousness, because the attitude displayed here
> toward the "little monsters" is one that those same posters would
> probably never consider displaying towards their pets.
>
> Sandi
And you would be wrong.
Marsha
Marsha
> It's the bratty kids whose parents make no effort whatsoever to keep their
> children under control that upsets most of, and the attitude that reasonable
> discipline is child abuse.
>
Thank you. At least somebody gets it.
Marsha
Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply
>
> Or better yet! Why don't we just get pet carriers for the little
> buggers and ship them with the luggage? Odds are, you won't hear them
> screaming down there.
Problem with THAT solution is that if you start it, it will end up being
required for all children, including those who are well-behaved.