OT: 16 Children
Bambi C.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Sixteen_Kids.html?cxntnid=amn101305e
--
"Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and
stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think."
Christopher Robin to Pooh
Sandi
"Bambi C." <blc...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:ayt3f.1798$lb.1...@news1.epix.net...
grief" about summed it up.
Sandi
Blupencl
As I pointed out on another site, how embarrassing do you think it is to
be from a state who had a rep named "Jim Bob" who has 16 kids that are
all dressed alike and still having more -- and a first lady who was
photographed/videotaped with GUM IN HER MOUTH. OMG.
That woman apparently makes all those kids' clothes, they are all
matched and coordinated and they have that awful hair.
My grandfather was "one of those men" who "doesn't believe in birth
control" but certainly believes in dipping his stick any time he felt
like it. He wore out two women fertilizing them, had 22 children. I
think that is absolutely disrespectful to the wife - then again, she
has it in her control.
I believe the good Lord gave me a wonderful strong mind. I believe that
He intends for me to use it, and not get led around the nose by somebody
who will NOT be worn out from having children no matter how many he
fathers. That poor girl is more worn-out looking by the day.
I did run into her at Wal-Mart not too long ago - she apparently comes
to Little Rock pretty frequently - and she complimented my grandson's
manners and cuteness, so she can't be all bad but I don't consider her
very intelligent, just my opinion.
Nobody would EVER have been allowed to tell me what to do with my own
body, not even Brian, whom I was with for 30 years. She can't possibly
have wanted to stay pregnant for her entire youth and be stuck in the
house with all those kids.
Again, JMO.
Hillary would never have chewed gum.
--
Blupencl
Tallulah
mixed up it'll just look like she's stuttering. I knew a guy who was
the youngest of several boys, and he says he grew up thinking his name
was something different because by the time his mom went through the
list of boy's names trying to think of his when she was in a fit of
anger, she finally gave up usually right when it was his turn in the
lineup, and just said "God Dammit!"
LizzieB.
> Good grief:
I can think of worse places for 16-odd children to be than with a family
who obviously loves them madly and cares for them well and without debt.
Like...in cages in Ohio. Or in any inner city in America.
I might think they're gluttons for punishment and I wouldn't do it, but
at least SOMEONE is willing to live up to the responsibilities they've
taken on--and with aplomb and grace.
Judity
Judity
http://judity.myblogsite.com/
Sandi
"LizzieB." <blah...@blahblahblah.com> wrote in message
news:3r7bbdF...@individual.net...
That may be so, but they're also raising daughters who will be "obedient"
and sons who will expect women to be, and fairly well enslaving the older
children - no, make that only the older DAUGHTERS - to caring for the
younger and doing household chores. I find that rather sad, but that's just
me.
Sandi
amiebobamie
uncle Eddie and they did not get along very well - personality clash. From
the time he was very little, she addressed him frequently using "Dammit
Eddie..." When he went to school for the first time in first grade he
introduced himself as "Dammit Eddie." He thought that was his name!! I
will say that by the time she had the last two kids she was tired and not
nearly as good of a mother as she was to the older children.
Amy
"Tallulah" <tallulah...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129215545....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bambi C.
I used to think (before I had kids) that I wanted 5 ... now 2 seems like
plenty. :-)
I just don't understand the mentality that because you CAN have 16 children,
you SHOULD have 16 children. As far as it being God's will ... who's to say
that God didn't have a hand in inventing birth control pills???
Bambi C.
--
"Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and
stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think."
Christopher Robin to Pooh
"LizzieB." <blah...@blahblahblah.com> wrote in message
news:3r7bbdF...@individual.net...
LizzieB.
> That may be so, but they're also raising daughters who will be "obedient"
> and sons who will expect women to be, and fairly well enslaving the older
> children - no, make that only the older DAUGHTERS - to caring for the
> younger and doing household chores. I find that rather sad, but that's just
> me.
While I agree that it's kinda sad in a way, I still don't think it holds
a candle to what other irresponsibly borne children are being
taught--that women are ho's and are the property of whichever person has
the power over her at that moment, that they are objects to be taken
(oh, again! like property--I think there's a theme there) and used for
whatever purpose the male intends, against her will--and the girls buy
into this, as well.
So while we are apparently talking about extremes of behavior and
training, I can say without doubt that the extreme (to us) way these
girls are being brought up sure beats the alternative extreme.
Now...will we ever reach a point where women are un-objectified or
treated as property in some way? Don't think so.
If their worst problem is that they're being brought up to be obedient
and do household chores (when they most likely would rather do something
else more true to their nature), I'll take that over the cesspool at the
other end.
And, Sandi, I know that you have expressed your opinion without
comparison in mind, but I can't help but compare (because I grew up in
the inner city and it wasn't pretty then, either), so forgive me for the
tangent.
LizzieB.
> My "good grief" was because I personally can't imaging having 16 children.
> I used to think (before I had kids) that I wanted 5 ... now 2 seems like
> plenty. :-)
Oh, me neither. I'm about to pop with #2 and I'm just as miserable as
miserable can be.
> I just don't understand the mentality that because you CAN have 16 children,
> you SHOULD have 16 children.
I think if you can pay for them, care for them, and love them, have at it.
They aren't on welfare. They're not in debt. They're hand-building
their own house. I don't see why they SHOULDN'T if they want to.
> As far as it being God's will ... who's to say
> that God didn't have a hand in inventing birth control pills???
Well, it must also be God's will that babies are successfully borne to
crack addicts and raging alcoholics while people who crave children
remain barren, too, but none of that makes sense to me, so I can only
speculate that this is the point of view of people who are trying to do
the right thing for their own lives.
Sandi
I don't think it's really a tangent; you have a valid point. There are many
less-than-ideal ways to raise children, and unfortunately a theme that runs
through many of them is the objectification or control of females, which
hurts both sexes in the end. :(
Sandi
LizzieB.
> There are many
> less-than-ideal ways to raise children, and unfortunately a theme that runs
> through many of them is the objectification or control of females, which
> hurts both sexes in the end. :(
I totally agree.
Maureen Galvin
kids or more. They were just good Irish Catholic families with excellent
rhythm <snort> I thought my family was big with 5 kids, but these kids
never felt like they missed out on anything or were mistreated. Of course,
they were about the only ones who looked forward to gym class in high school
cause they could shower without someone banging on the bathroom door.
Maureen
"LizzieB." <blah...@blahblahblah.com> wrote in message
news:3r7dr8F...@individual.net...
Phyllis Nilsson
loving home with two parents who obviously love each other and can
afford to care for them properly. There are many women with just one or
two children and cannot say the same.
It is demeaning and insulting to assume this woman (who none of us knows
personally) does only what her husband wants her to do. Some women
truly like being pregnant (although I am not one of them), and since so
many women here are pro-choice, I would think they would allow her the
choice of how many children she has without making less than
complimentary comments on the husband's name, children's clothing or
hair or equating being brought up to be obedient and do household chores
with being enslaved.
It appears to me they are teaching them responsibility and the safety of
having a place and purpose in their family. With children killing
children and being disrespectful to their parents and getting into the
legal system earlier and earlier in their lives, I'd rather have
children be reared the way these children are than some I've seen.
Phyllis Nilsson
wanted 12, settled for 4 when my mind cleared), but many, many of my
female ancestors had that many and more. Everyone has a choice, but
maybe she prefers children to pills. Not my cup of tea, but if she has
them, and still wants more, then she is pro-choice . . . her choice is
just different than some (mine included).
Sandi
"Phyllis Nilsson" <phyllis...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:434E98F1...@buckeye-express.com...
>I certainly agree with you. These children are being brought up in a
>loving home with two parents who obviously love each other and can afford
>to care for them properly. There are many women with just one or two
>children and cannot say the same.
>
> It is demeaning and insulting to assume this woman (who none of us knows
> personally) does only what her husband wants her to do. Some women truly
> like being pregnant (although I am not one of them), and since so many
> women here are pro-choice, I would think they would allow her the choice
> of how many children she has without making less than complimentary
> comments on the husband's name, children's clothing or hair or equating
> being brought up to be obedient and do household chores with being
> enslaved.
>
> It appears to me they are teaching them responsibility and the safety of
> having a place and purpose in their family. With children killing
> children and being disrespectful to their parents and getting into the
> legal system earlier and earlier in their lives, I'd rather have children
> be reared the way these children are than some I've seen.
>
> LizzieB. wrote:
Phyllis, I wasn't assuming anything. There was a rather extensive article
about them which I read, in which they were interviewed and quoted. You're
right that that situation is preferable to many, but I don't think that
necessarily renders it wonderful.
Sandi
Anne Vasquez
was to? I wonder because the cited article really doesn't infer this,
at least not to me. It wouldn't particularly surprise me, as there is
just NO WAY two parents alone can properly care for so many day in and
day out, but I know nothing about them other than what was said in this
article. Am I missing something?
Anne
Anne Vasquez
that sometimes it pays to read the whole thread before diving in. <G>
If you happen to still have a link to the article handy, I'd be
interested in reading it. Or I could get off my lazy behind and do a
Google search.
Anne
RaeMorrill
Sandi
"Anne Vasquez" <annev...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76x3f.2551$7h7....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Aha, that answers the question I posted a few minutes ago! Goes to show
> that sometimes it pays to read the whole thread before diving in. <G> If
> you happen to still have a link to the article handy, I'd be interested in
> reading it. Or I could get off my lazy behind and do a Google search.
>
> Anne
>
it may be at least partially online. Someone subscribed to "Parents"
magazine on my behalf a while back (as a joke? who knows), and I must
admit, I enjoyed it even though I don't have any small children.
Sandi
RaeMorrill
okay and maybe they aren't and just putting up a facade. I just think it
is grossly irrespnosible to have that many kids when there are already
too many hungry kids in the world. We are horrified when people breed
animals indiscriminately
jmorn...@aol.com
Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
> It appears to me they are teaching them responsibility and the safety of
> having a place and purpose in their family. With children killing
> children and being disrespectful to their parents and getting into the
> legal system earlier and earlier in their lives, I'd rather have
> children be reared the way these children are than some I've seen.
Being 1 of 14, although not all biological, I can tell you, that it is
likely not as it would appear in these articles. What you consider the
"purpose" in the family and "responsibility" might not be as rosey as
you want to portray.
While 2 of the 14 have 5 children each, many have none and most have
only 1 or 2.
Janice
Bob Rahe
Phyllis Nilsson <phyllis...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>I certainly agree with you. These children are being brought up in a
>loving home with two parents who obviously love each other and can
>afford to care for them properly. There are many women with just one or
>two children and cannot say the same.
>It is demeaning and insulting to assume this woman (who none of us knows
>personally) does only what her husband wants her to do. Some women
>truly like being pregnant (although I am not one of them), and since so
>many women here are pro-choice, I would think they would allow her the
>choice of how many children she has without making less than
>complimentary comments on the husband's name, children's clothing or
>hair or equating being brought up to be obedient and do household chores
>with being enslaved.
This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
--
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Judity
right after another. For years, she never seemed to be out of maternity
clothes. However, most of the kids turned out okay.
Judity
http://Writing.Com/authors/judity
Bob Rahe
RaeMorrill <RaeMo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Sometimes what looks good on outside turns out not to be. Maybe they are
>okay and maybe they aren't and just putting up a facade. I just think it
>is grossly irrespnosible to have that many kids when there are already
>too many hungry kids in the world. We are horrified when people breed
>animals indiscriminately
My, my, my... how judgemental of you! What ever happened to the
'not forcing my version of morality' on someone? Or does that only work
when it isn't YOUR morality?
jmorn...@aol.com
This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
--
Bob,
Who mentioned abortion? I am one of 14, so I speak a little from
experience of what it is like to be on the inside of one of these
larger than normal families. Do not have children that the older
children are expected to help raise. Got nothing to do with abortion.
It has to do with not continuing to have children that you cannot
possibly parent and expect siblings to help raise.
You won't miss number 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16 and so forth if you
don't have them. Once you have them, you raise them the best you can,
or the siblings do. My oldest sister Ruth, raised two of her own
children while she was raising 13 and 14 in our family. This is not
right.
But this has nothing to do with abortion. Even rhythm or any other
acceptable birth control would likely result in less than 17 children.
Janice
Anne Vasquez
Anne
Phyllis Nilsson
adopt me! On second thought, maybe not. I like not doing chores when I
don't want to.
Sandi
"Bob Rahe" <b...@hobbes.dtcc.edu> wrote in message
news:dim7so$rn2$1...@dewey.udel.edu...
>
> This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
> amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
> only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
> hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
> an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------_------
> |Bob Rahe, MIEEE, b...@dtcc.edu (RWR50) / ASCII ribbon campaign ( )
> |
> |Delaware Technical & Community College / - against HTML email X
> |
> |Computer Center, Dover, Delaware / & vCards / \
> |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um, Bob, I've been pretty much the most critical, and I'm not on the left...
Sandi
Phyllis Nilsson
living in a loving family with two parents who love each other and who
can afford to support their children well is preferable.
I wouldn't want that many children either, but I think if it is truly
pro-choice (and not just pro-abortion) we have to accept both sides of
the coin without judgement; whether it is no children, one or two
children, five, of 16. I was reared in a family with purpose and
responsbility and I had only three siblings (and by brother was born
only shortly before I married and left home). I think it makes children
stronger adults, and I'm sure they have less time to get into trouble
than other children (and more tattletales to run to mom and dad if they
do something they shouldn't).
Phyllis Nilsson
excellent education, who are we to say they are wrong? Their pro-choice
just turned out differently than someone else's pro-choice.
Anne Vasquez
Bob Rahe
<jmorn...@aol.com> wrote:
>Bob Rahe wrote....
> This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
>amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
>only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
>hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
>an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
>Bob,
>Who mentioned abortion? I am one of 14, so I speak a little from
I did. As an example of the hypocrisy of the left. They cry 'choice'
but if the choice isn't the choice THEY think it should be.... And,
again, the obvious - 'choice' is a just a euphemism in their vocabulary
for abortion....
CindyB
wrote:
>
>Phyllis, I wasn't assuming anything. There was a rather extensive article
>about them which I read, in which they were interviewed and quoted. You're
>right that that situation is preferable to many, but I don't think that
>necessarily renders it wonderful.
>
>Sandi
>
Can you guide me to that article, please? The one I read didn't
indicate that the mother was anything but a loving and caring woman
who truly enjoyed her children and husband.
CindyB
Rahe) wrote:
>In article <ncx3f.47361$7b6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
>RaeMorrill <RaeMo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Sometimes what looks good on outside turns out not to be. Maybe they are
>>okay and maybe they aren't and just putting up a facade. I just think it
>>is grossly irrespnosible to have that many kids when there are already
>>too many hungry kids in the world. We are horrified when people breed
>>animals indiscriminately
>
> My, my, my... how judgemental of you! What ever happened to the
>'not forcing my version of morality' on someone? Or does that only work
>when it isn't YOUR morality?
Thank you, Bob. I was too angry to come up with the words. I "only"
have 6 kids but I've been fighting that kind of prejudice and
judgement ever since the 4th one was born.
Bob Rahe
>
>"Bob Rahe" <b...@hobbes.dtcc.edu> wrote in message
>news:dim7so$rn2$1...@dewey.udel.edu...
>> This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
>> amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
>> only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
>> hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
>> an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
>> --
>Um, Bob, I've been pretty much the most critical, and I'm not on the left...
>Sandi
And your point? That you are claiming to be not on the left but
critical doesn't mean those on the left who are critical aren't hypocrites.
At least not by any logic that I know of.
A implies B does NOT mean that not-A implies not B.
Bob Rahe
Phyllis Nilsson <phyllis...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>If they love each other, love their children, provide a good home and
>excellent education, who are we to say they are wrong? Their pro-choice
>just turned out differently than someone else's pro-choice.
Once again proving that pro-choice is just another way of
saying pro-abortion.
>RaeMorrill wrote:
>> I think it is obscene and totally irresponsible.
jmorn...@aol.com
Thank you, Bob. I was too angry to come up with the words. I "only"
have 6 kids but I've been fighting that kind of prejudice and
judgement ever since the 4th one was born.
But do you plan to have 16? And what does abortion have to do with
this discussion. Obviously it is your choice to have as many children
as you want, as is it the choice of this AK family. My comments were
about things that many of the parents probably don't think about. If
you plan on having 16, I might suggest that you talk to some of my
siblings on what it was like.
Janice
CindyB
wrote:
>I think it is obscene and totally irresponsible.
>
Which ones should she give back?
LizzieB.
> Can you guide me to that article, please? The one I read didn't
> indicate that the mother was anything but a loving and caring woman
> who truly enjoyed her children and husband.
I saw this family on a Discovery special about a year ago when she was
expecting #15.
They are not in debt.
They are hand-building (or contracting) their home as they can pay for
each phase to be done.
This woman is unutterably organized.
She homeschools and is an accomplished violinist who is teaching her
children to play violin. They take field trips to various things
(museums, art galleries, construction sites, etc.) to learn about other
occupations.
This woman considers this her JOB, she likes it, and she's very, very
good at it--so I'm not sure what the hullabaloo about her doing it is
all about. Is it because it's not a PAID job? Is it because it
involves raising children--something we as a society value little
anyway? (I mean, look how much childcare workers and teachers get paid.)
*I* would not do this. I am a basically selfish and lazy and
money-oriented individual. But I'm sure glad somebody can, will, and does.
CindyB
I don't think my reply was to you but to Rae. You spoke from your own
experience. She spoke out of judgement.
Sandi
"CindyB" <cinq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bbbtk1hdqgveb98j4...@4ax.com...
I would if I could - see my earlier post - and of course, the woman was all
smiles in the interview. It was the detailed description of their daily
routine and way of life that I was addressing.
I'm completely willing to admit that I have my own biases in this regard. I
don't like extremism of any sort, find many religious organizations to be at
least somewhat cult-like, and become very sad when young girls are taught
that the subjugation of women is A-OK. These people may be perfectly happy
and healthy; I'm just speaking from my own point of view.
Sandi
Sandi
The sheer number of children these folks have has very little to do with my
opinions, although I do find it rather bizarre. Six children? Nah, not
bizarre in the least. Multiply that by almost 3, though...
Sandi
Sandi
Well, to be more exact, I don't really see where anyone but me and one other
person even are critical in the slightest. This discussion doesn't have a
thing in the world to do with abortion. Every discussion on the planet does
not have to do with abortion, although extremists on both sides would like
to make it so.
Sandi
Anne Vasquez
Magazine. I'm not sure whether this is the same article, but a search
came up with this article:
http://www.parents.com/articles/family_time/5432.jsp?page=1
Maybe there are things going on behind the scenes that aren't so pretty,
I don't know, but it really does sound to me like these people love and
care well for their children. I can't honestly say it sounds like such
a bad deal to me, even though children in such a large family are
inevitably going to have to shoulder more responsibility than those in
smaller families. My uneducated guess would be that these children may
have fewer problems with work ethics and taking personal responsibility
than we often see these days, and I don't see that as a bad thing! JMO,
of course.
And, hey Bob, I'm one of those prochoice people you keep talking about,
but I DO see having such a large family as their choice and respect it! :-)
Anne
jmorn...@aol.com
don't think my reply was to you but to Rae. You spoke from your own
experience. She spoke out of judgement.
I guess I am blonde and dumb or I just plain live in nirvana. If
people are judgmental of me and my life, I guess they just plain keep
their mouths shut or I am deaf to it.
I am struggling because my new boyfriend tends to be a tad prejudiced
and my hope is that this is out of not knowing and understanding
because up until this time, I have loved living among people who were
able to make their own choices, be them religious, sexual, family size,
economics, or racial make-up without seeing any hatred, except from
outsiders. I would invite all of you to live in my world, but I don't
think the infrastructure could support all of you.
Cindy, do you mean that people actually say to your face, you shouldn't
have six children?
Janice
Anne Vasquez
Anne
Tallulah
My best friend's family had 6 kids, and they had a lot of neighborhood
kids there too because their house was the most fun. They all turned
out great. One of my classmates was in a big Catholic family, I think
there were 8 kids - all turned out very successful, he is a banker and
now in the state senate, several sisters are teachers and school
principals - not one of them didn't turn out wonderful. It's all in
the raising.
My mom, though, came from a very poor family in Kentucky, she was the
oldest girl of 13 kids. She took over cooking for the whole family
plus the hired hands when she was 9 years old. She had to stand on a
dynamite box to reach the stove. Had to churn butter (the hard part
was cleaning the churn), had to do all the laundry (diapers too -
gross) by hand on a washboard, while her mother worked on the tobacco
farm all day. She got beat with a whip by her father when she was in
high school because she overslept from exhaustion and missed the bus.
My grandma died right after my mom got married, so even then, she still
had to come back and take care of the last baby until one of the girls
graduated from high school and could be home with them. To my uncle,
(that baby) my mom was his mom.
She still says her dad kept her grandma pregnant because it was free
farm labor. She did not have a happy childhood.
But, again, it's all in the raising. Numbers aren't as important as
how happy the kids are. JMO
Maureen Galvin
kids. My kids (and I only have 3) think I treated them as slaves, I am
still friends with two of the girls from one of the large families and one
has no kids and the other 4, and while she said things were not always
perfect, they had a great life. You cant really judge things just based on
the amount of kids anyone has.
Maureen
<jmorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129230129....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CindyB
>
>Cindy, do you mean that people actually say to your face, you shouldn't
>have six children?
>
>Janice
Not so much any more, now that they are all grown and on their own
except the youngest, but yes. I used to get looks at the grocery
store. "Are they all yours?!" When I'd reply that they were, some
people would go on a tirade about my family being a drain on society
and haven't I ever heard of zero population growth. I got it from
strangers, family and co-workers.
Needless to say, I'm a little sensitive on this subject and should
probably stay out of discussions like this.
By the way, my oldest was a godsend to me. But, when helping with the
younger ones got to be too much for him, he had the common sense to
tell me and we lessened his responsibilities. He is now a teacher,
loves kids and they love him. He and his wife are seeing a fertility
specialist and praying that they will be able to have children.
CindyB
It's what I used to say to shut people up who would tell me I had too
many. Worked every time.
jmorn...@aol.com
But Janice every family's dynamics are different be it 1 kid, 3 kids or
16
kids. My kids (and I only have 3) think I treated them as slaves, I
am
still friends with two of the girls from one of the large families and
one
has no kids and the other 4, and while she said things were not always
perfect, they had a great life. You cant really judge things just
based on
the amount of kids anyone has.
Maureen,
All children think that they are treated as slaves. I was the oldest
prior to the merger. I felt the responsibility being too much on
having to babysit my younger two sisters, but there is a very big
difference between thinking you were a slave, an actually being a
slave.
Most people do say they have had a great life, even when they haven't.
You need to ask if they would have that many children and do to their
children what was done to them. Then you might be able to understand
what I am getting at.
I think that we are talking about different things here.
Janice
Blupencl
Not true. She has the choice. It's beautiful to have choices. Nobody
said she should not have the choice to do this. It's just obscene. And
I am probably the only one on this board who is really familiar with
how she has just been bred down to nothing, having seen her in person
lots of times.
There are worse things said about women who have abortions. There is a
huge difference against taking choice away from somebody and talking
about their choices.
Again, you throw that smoke screen up there and make an issue where
there is none. Nobody's removing her choices.
I'd block your arse again, yours and that of your peas-in-a-pod
rightwinger buddy, but the way this board is set up, it wouldn't do me
any good, as I'd have to read it anyway.
>>This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
an abortion? Sheeshhhh.<<
--
Blupencl
Blupencl
The thing here is that nobody is taking her right away to do those
things, even if we feel that it is obscene and irresponsible (I agreed
with this sentiment) to go around plopping out little housekeepers
every year.
Her choice is not being removed. We can say whatever we like about her
and that doesn't take away her rights.
And she does dress them tacky!
--
Blupencl
Kathycarp
> Cindy, do you mean that people actually say to your face, you shouldn't
> have six children?
>
I'm not Cindy, but I can say for a fact that people told my parents to their
faces that they shouldn't have 5 kids.
One of the saddest things that my mom ever told me, in her last years before
the dementia took over, was that her sister and her cousin always made her
feel like "trash" for having 5 kids. (They each had one). This was in the
1940s and 1950s. They had "careers" as a school teacher and a hairdresser,
but she was "only a mother" and made her family her career. It made me very
sad that the people she loved made her feel that way.
They (her sister and cousin) were so lonely in their final years, and
expected my mom to care for them.
Oh well.. it's a long story so I'll just stop here.
--
Kathy
www.ambergriscaye.com/villadelsol
<jmorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129230738.7...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
RaeMorrill
children, then fine, but they damn well better be able to care for them.
Anyone with even one child can suffer a financial set back to point it
would be hard to care for that one child properly, but with 16 .... wow.
Imagine if every family procreated this way? Schools would be
overcrowded, school taxes would go up - for all us responsible people
with 0 to few children, etc. Now with tax exemptions, are they getting
money put back in their pockets or at least not paying any tax? The
reward should stop at some point then if they WANT to and can AFFORD to,
fine.
Bob Rahe wrote:
> In article <434E98F1...@buckeye-express.com>,
> Phyllis Nilsson <phyllis...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>
>>I certainly agree with you. These children are being brought up in a
>>loving home with two parents who obviously love each other and can
>>afford to care for them properly. There are many women with just one or
>>two children and cannot say the same.
>
>
>>It is demeaning and insulting to assume this woman (who none of us knows
>>personally) does only what her husband wants her to do. Some women
>>truly like being pregnant (although I am not one of them), and since so
>>many women here are pro-choice, I would think they would allow her the
>>choice of how many children she has without making less than
>>complimentary comments on the husband's name, children's clothing or
>>hair or equating being brought up to be obedient and do household chores
>>with being enslaved.
RaeMorrill
Tells you something right there.
Sandi
"Kathycarp" <kath...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Te-dnWHSNK7...@comcast.com...
>
>> Cindy, do you mean that people actually say to your face, you shouldn't
>> have six children?
>>
> -------
>
> I'm not Cindy, but I can say for a fact that people told my parents to
> their faces that they shouldn't have 5 kids.
>
> One of the saddest things that my mom ever told me, in her last years
> before the dementia took over, was that her sister and her cousin always
> made her feel like "trash" for having 5 kids. (They each had one). This
> was in the 1940s and 1950s. They had "careers" as a school teacher and a
> hairdresser, but she was "only a mother" and made her family her career.
> It made me very sad that the people she loved made her feel that way.
>
> They (her sister and cousin) were so lonely in their final years, and
> expected my mom to care for them.
>
> Oh well.. it's a long story so I'll just stop here.
>
> --
> Kathy
Sounds to me like they were lonely for a reason...and it sounds like your
mom probably did try to care for them, as she sounds like a caring person.
I may throw out my opinions about strangers on a newsgroup, but I can't
imagine making my friends or relatives feel like trash, regardless of what
they did. I do have one friend whom I hope fervently never has any more
children, but that's only because I'm afraid it would kill her and would
selfishly like to keep her around forever. :(
Sandi
Sandi
"RaeMorrill" <RaeMo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cSy3f.47367$7b6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> It's my opinion, nothing more. IF people are going to have herds of
> children, then fine, but they damn well better be able to care for them.
> Anyone with even one child can suffer a financial set back to point it
> would be hard to care for that one child properly, but with 16 .... wow.
> Imagine if every family procreated this way? Schools would be overcrowded,
> school taxes would go up - for all us responsible people with 0 to few
> children, etc. Now with tax exemptions, are they getting money put back in
> their pockets or at least not paying any tax? The reward should stop at
> some point then if they WANT to and can AFFORD to, fine.
>
Sandi
RaeMorrill
exhausting. How must that poor mother cope with that many so close
together. Oh, right, she birthed babysitters already.
Sandi wrote:
> "Bob Rahe" <b...@hobbes.dtcc.edu> wrote in message
> news:dim7so$rn2$1...@dewey.udel.edu...
>
>> This thread has shown, once again, the hypocrisy that is so rampant
>>amongst the left. They spout the cry of 'choice', 'choice' but the
>>only 'choice' that is acceptable is abortion. Can you imagine the
>>hue and cry if someone were to say those things about a woman who had
>>an abortion? Sheeshhhh.
>>--
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------_------
>>|Bob Rahe, MIEEE, b...@dtcc.edu (RWR50) / ASCII ribbon campaign ( )
>>|
>>|Delaware Technical & Community College / - against HTML email X
>>|
>>|Computer Center, Dover, Delaware / & vCards / \
>>|
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
RaeMorrill
just as bad as you say I am. I'm not saying ban it, but I would say
people who have kids they cannot support have them taken away from them,
at least unless they agree to be sterilized or use effective birth
control. People do not have the right to have kids on my dime. Maybe
this particular family is self-supporting, I don't know, but there are
plenty who are not
Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
> Janice, I don't know of any life that is "rosy", but I believe that
> living in a loving family with two parents who love each other and who
> can afford to support their children well is preferable.
>
> I wouldn't want that many children either, but I think if it is truly
> pro-choice (and not just pro-abortion) we have to accept both sides of
> the coin without judgement; whether it is no children, one or two
> children, five, of 16. I was reared in a family with purpose and
> responsbility and I had only three siblings (and by brother was born
> only shortly before I married and left home). I think it makes children
> stronger adults, and I'm sure they have less time to get into trouble
> than other children (and more tattletales to run to mom and dad if they
> do something they shouldn't).
>
> jmorn...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>> Being 1 of 14, although not all biological, I can tell you, that it is
>>
>> likely not as it would appear in these articles. What you consider the
>> "purpose" in the family and "responsibility" might not be as rosey as
>> you want to portray.
>>
>> While 2 of the 14 have 5 children each, many have none and most have
>> only 1 or 2.
>>
>> Janice
>>
>
RaeMorrill
RaeMorrill
CindyB wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:34:48 -0400, "Sandi" <sandi...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Phyllis, I wasn't assuming anything. There was a rather extensive article
>>about them which I read, in which they were interviewed and quoted. You're
>>right that that situation is preferable to many, but I don't think that
>>necessarily renders it wonderful.
>>
>>Sandi
>>
>
>
RaeMorrill
only the fetus has value, but once the cord is cut let the chips fall
where they may. This particular family may take care of their kids well,
but there are plenty of same mindset who are not paying for them and
still think it is their right to have all they want and the kids are not
well taken care of or are being shuttled from home to home in foster care.
Bob Rahe wrote:
> In article <434EA97D...@buckeye-express.com>,
> Phyllis Nilsson <phyllis...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>
>>If they love each other, love their children, provide a good home and
>>excellent education, who are we to say they are wrong? Their pro-choice
>>just turned out differently than someone else's pro-choice.
>
>
> Once again proving that pro-choice is just another way of
> saying pro-abortion.
RaeMorrill
on the topic, but can you honestly say you were filled with unmitigated
joy when you found out about #5 and #6? If so, more power to you. I'd
bee suicidal so that's the only way I can feel about it. Maybe some
folks are happy when they find out the umpteenth they didn't plan is on
the way - but I'm betting most are not.
CindyB wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:51:31 GMT, RaeMorrill <RaeMo...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I think it is obscene and totally irresponsible.
>>
>
>
RaeMorrill
why anyone would want that many (now I can't understand any actually),
but 16? It's beyond my comprehension. I just think many women were
brought up in mindset "you get married, you have kids" that's what a
woman does. I figured out too late that that isn't for every woman and
it pisses me off that at least in the generation I grew up in, you
didn't hear the negatives.
RaeMorrill
they are called collectors. They can't care for them but think no one
else can. It's pathologic. Except these are kids, not animals, so it's ok?
RaeMorrill
is going to have kids - just reverse of same thing. I'm sure plenty who
say they don't have kids then get bombarded with why and God forbid you
say you don't even want kids.
Rae <grateful her daughter has already figured out she doesn't want kids>
Bambi C.
she's "the most tired mother in the history of mothers." She has 6 nurses
(2 on each shift), a housekeeper, nutritionist, and a few others that I
can't remember. That girl needs a little dose of reality!
Bambi C.
--
"Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and
stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think."
Christopher Robin to Pooh
"RaeMorrill" <RaeMo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bUy3f.47369$7b6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Sandi
>> In another post, Sandi referred to an article she'd read in Parents
>> Magazine. I'm not sure whether this is the same article, but a search
>> came up with this article:
>>
>> http://www.parents.com/articles/family_time/5432.jsp?page=1
>>
>>
printed article, along with quite a few photos.
Sandi
Anne Vasquez
Sandi
news:Ksz3f.2856$7h7....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> <Choke> I guess so! <G>
>
>
> RaeMorrill wrote:
>> She obviously has been enjoying her husband plenty!
Oh, I don't know. There's only 16 times that we know about - actually less,
considering there's more than one set of twins...
Sandi
Anne Vasquez
else's business.
Maureen Galvin
<jmorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129232443.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Maureen,
> All children think that they are treated as slaves. I was the oldest
> prior to the merger. I felt the responsibility being too much on having
> to babysit my younger two sisters, but there is a very big difference
> between thinking you were a slave, an actually being a slave.
>
> Most people do say they have had a great life, even when they haven't.
> You need to ask if they would have that many children and do to their
> children what was done to them. Then you might be able to understand what
> I am getting at.
>
> I think that we are talking about different things here.
>
> Janice
Im not sure we are. I was the 2nd of 5 and the only girl. I was the one
who made school lunches, did laundry, stayed with them after school, walked
them to school, and babysat while both mom and dad were at work, helped with
dinner when I was younger and then responsible for it as I got older, set
the table, cleared the table, cleaned the house, sold band candy and little
league candy <according to mom, the boys were too busy>.
My dad was a security guard and worked 6 days a week and mom cleaned a
medical office 6 days. I wont say I had a great life growing up. My
brothers may, but I wont.
But in the end, I dont believe it had any bearing on the number of kids we
had. What affect it did have on me was to make sure that my kids were each
treated the same and my son learned how to cook and clean just like my
girls. What affected me more growing up was being poor and always seeing
my folks worry about finances. I love kids but I always feel like we are on
the verge of financial disaster <which I know is not true>, but I have such
an irrational fear of ending up like my parents.
Maureen
Anne Vasquez
Blupencl
She is a sweet woman, Cindy (even though you weren't talking to me).
What bugs me about it is her dern husband talking about all this "we"
stuff when he is not the one who has to carry them and ruin his body
with them.
She seems happy enough but I think they've gone over the top with this
thing. Only my opinion. And I know you have 6 kids and I think that is
FINE, by the way. Nobody's talking about you here, at all.
--
Blupencl
jmorn...@aol.com
Im not sure we are. I was the 2nd of 5 and the only girl. I was the
one
who made school lunches, did laundry, stayed with them after school,
walked
them to school, and babysat while both mom and dad were at work, helped
with
dinner when I was younger and then responsible for it as I got older,
set
the table, cleared the table, cleaned the house, sold band candy and
little
league candy <according to mom, the boys were too busy>.
Maureen,
Magnify this by 4 or 5 times. There is no question that life can be
difficult no matter how many children you have. You didn't have it so
great. How do you think it would be to be 12 and have to help take
care of 12 other children younger than you.
Janice
Anne Vasquez
choice to make. I can't imagine the physical effects of 16 pregnancies
(or 14 or whatever it was with the twins), and it seems it would be just
that much more important for both parents to have a reasonable
expectation of living long enough to raise their kids when there are
that many to consider!
Anne
Susan Mitchell
the "raising" of the younger ones instead of living their own lives. The
kids probably do most of the work around the house as well. I believe all
kids should do work around the house but not all of it.
--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medla...@comcast.net)
"LizzieB." <blah...@blahblahblah.com> wrote in message
news:3r7pdnF...@individual.net...
> CindyB wrote:
>
> > Can you guide me to that article, please? The one I read didn't
> > indicate that the mother was anything but a loving and caring woman
> > who truly enjoyed her children and husband.
>
> I saw this family on a Discovery special about a year ago when she was
> expecting #15.
>
> They are not in debt.
>
> They are hand-building (or contracting) their home as they can pay for
> each phase to be done.
>
> This woman is unutterably organized.
>
> She homeschools and is an accomplished violinist who is teaching her
> children to play violin. They take field trips to various things
> (museums, art galleries, construction sites, etc.) to learn about other
> occupations.
>
> This woman considers this her JOB, she likes it, and she's very, very
> good at it--so I'm not sure what the hullabaloo about her doing it is
> all about. Is it because it's not a PAID job? Is it because it
> involves raising children--something we as a society value little
> anyway? (I mean, look how much childcare workers and teachers get paid.)
>
> *I* would not do this. I am a basically selfish and lazy and
> money-oriented individual. But I'm sure glad somebody can, will, and
does.
fairjan
VBG - I remember those days. I thought my name was Gina, Jan, Judy - oh
S*** - Jan. She is 82 years old now and still does it. My brother
lucked out I guess because he was the only boy and it would be hard to
confuse Bob with anything.
Judity Wrote:
> Tallulah, for years I thought my name was "Jan, June, Judith Anne"!
>
> Judity
> http://judity.myblogsite.com/
--
fairjan
Susan Mitchell
in the early 70s in a law firm and had a catholic attorney (before you
pounce it was evident by the trinkets in the office) ask me if I was
planning a family and I said I did not want children. I proceeded to get a
lecture for about five minutes when I interrupted him and said, How do you
know that I am even able to have them? How dare you preach to me like
this. Shove your job along with your plastic statues and I walked out. I
asked the staff on the way out how could they work for such a pig!
--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medla...@comcast.net)
"Anne Vasquez" <annev...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Sxz3f.2858$7h7...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
LizzieB.
> the other kids are probably doing a lot of
> the "raising" of the younger ones instead of living their own lives.
Yes, each older child is teamed up with a younger "buddy" child,
according to the special I saw.
> kids probably do most of the work around the house as well.
I'm sure they do a good portion of it, and why shouldn't they?
Obviously, Becky is more knowledgable about this lady's physical
condition and situation than anybody else here is, special or article or
not.
If the worst thing anybody can say about this family is that they dress
tacky and the kids work harder than other kids their age and the mom
must be worn out by now...so what? They're not doing any harm and
they're taking care of the responsibility that they've incurred.
I'm way more horrified by the rate of teenage pregnancy (yeah, they're
taught birth control in school, but do they practice it?) and the
squalor they're raising their babies in, doomed to poverty and working
the system because they don't have enough life experience or education
or home training under their belt to be able to be effective child
rearers--and there are generations of people like that.
I just don't get why this family is obscene and irresponsible just
because it's out of the norm and not a choice most of us would make.
LizzieB.
> VBG - I remember those days. I thought my name was Gina, Jan, Judy - oh
> S*** - Jan. She is 82 years old now and still does it. My brother
> lucked out I guess because he was the only boy and it would be hard to
> confuse Bob with anything.
Naw. I called my kid (whose name is Lydia) by one of the cat's names
the other day and called one of the cats (Raspberry or Blackberry, can't
remember which) by the kid's name. And I've only got one kid.
Last night, I called my husband Lydia.
Heaven help me when we have another soul in the house whose name I have
to remember correctly.
Barbara Carlson
that's another topic), but as a conservationist I believe it is
irresponsible for one couple to populate the earth with that many children,
no matter how well they may be cared for. Just my opinion.
Barb C.
"Anne Vasquez" <annev...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0jy3f.1787$BZ5...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> In another post, Sandi referred to an article she'd read in Parents
> Magazine. I'm not sure whether this is the same article, but a search
> came up with this article:
>
> http://www.parents.com/articles/family_time/5432.jsp?page=1
>
> Maybe there are things going on behind the scenes that aren't so pretty, I
> don't know, but it really does sound to me like these people love and care
> well for their children. I can't honestly say it sounds like such a bad
> deal to me, even though children in such a large family are inevitably
> going to have to shoulder more responsibility than those in smaller
> families. My uneducated guess would be that these children may have fewer
> problems with work ethics and taking personal responsibility than we often
> see these days, and I don't see that as a bad thing! JMO, of course.
>
> And, hey Bob, I'm one of those prochoice people you keep talking about,
> but I DO see having such a large family as their choice and respect it!
> :-)
>
> Anne
>
>
Judity
lucked out I guess because he was the only boy and it would be hard to
Oh sh** Jan, my other sister also lucked out with the name of Barbara.
Judity
http://Writing.Com/authors/judity
RaeMorrill
pregnant man yet (except in the movies). My SIL had one child when she
married my BIL. She has two more now, apparently as much his wish as
hers if not more. But, OMG if she leaves him with "his" children he has
a fit.
RaeMorrill
RaeMorrill
every time.
RaeMorrill
can conceive? That's what makes me saddest. My MIL didn't believe in
birth control apparently, or at least not in a tubal (religious but not
Catholic). After #7, I guess she rethought it. It just sickens me to
think of the poor women in times past were told they had no choice by
their priest, even when he could see it was killing them.
RaeMorrill
plenty already and so many children that need a home. If you want that
many, why not adopt?
RaeMorrill
Now how they call them I don't know.
LizzieB.
> It's sad to me they are making more people on the planet when there are
> plenty already and so many children that need a home. If you want that
> many, why not adopt?
Well. That I couldn't say. It WOULD seem to be the logical thing to
do, wouldn't it?
RaeMorrill
LizzieB.
> George Foreman
I love that man. And that's why.
Blupencl
"Miss Becky!"
Can you imagine the mood I am in to be as hateful as I am today?
Geeeezzzzzzzzz. This is a lunatic asylum and I only have two children
and one extra plus the grandbaby (who can do no wrong of course).
I have dealt with paranoia, cut wrists, hysteria, unrealistic attitudes
about money, sleep deprivation, and my own aggravation.
Give you an example of my mood, when shown the slit wrists:
"Well, I guess you know how completely stupid that was."
No sympathy coming from here.
How many children people have is not my business and I know it. I just
feel like Michelle? was sold a bill of goods is all.
And I think the being on TV and feeling superior to the rest of us mere
mortals who make the irresponsible choice of limiting our families,
working hard and gasp! Not home schooling! is what makes me furious.
Let alone day care.
My kids' umbilical stumps dropped off in the day care center. Not
really, of course, but it wasn't long after that when I had to go back
to work. HAD to go back to work. Not wanted to. HAD to.
Because I didn't want to be poor. Nobody does. I didn't want my kids
looking scroungy at school. I didn't want them feeling scroungy. I
didn't want to be scroungy and poor.
I feel like some people think you are "less than" if you do not share
their particular faith, if you make choices that don't agree with
theirs. I loved and love my children, to distraction. I'd lay down my
life for either of them, certainly for my grandson, and probably for my
poor DIL. It makes me mad to be perceived by some not to love them.
You know, part of this comes from real life, at home, in my own
extended family, and not the Duggars. I know I have a chip on my
shoulder.
--
Blupencl
Susan Mitchell
--
Sue -- Firefighter mom -- Still Rabid UW Dawg Fan!
(to reply send to medla...@comcast.net)
"Barbara Carlson" <bbca...@snappydsl.net> wrote in message
news:PeGdnYzI15CSQNPe...@snappydsl.net...
Phyllis Nilsson
think it is wonderful. They will probably have a bond throughout life
that most of us would dearly love to have with our siblings. They would
be that child's mentor and friend. As far as the housework goes, who do
you thinks makes most of it? If they are that organized, then they have
house rules, you know:
Take your own dishes to the sink
Take turns doing dishes (with that many kids it would be only once very
ten days or so)
Make your bed
Take your dirty laundry to the laundry room
Take your clean laundry to your room and put it away
Help bring in and put away the groceries
Take out the garbage
which I think every parent should instill in their children. It is a
parent's obligation to teach their children how to live without them.
That means learning how to cook, sew, shop, do laundry, mop, vacuum etc.
People don't learn by watching someone else do it, they have to do it
themselves to learn; make mistakes and do better next time.
Phyllis Nilsson
who need adoptive parents for the couples who can't have children and
need to adopt if they have any at all?
Phyllis Nilsson
parents have the money to build a beautiful house to care for all of
them. Can't you be happy for someone who has a different view point
than we have?
RaeMorrill wrote:
> Sort of reminds me of people with too many animals that get to point
> they are called collectors. They can't care for them but think no one
> else can. It's pathologic. Except these are kids, not animals, so it's ok?