lifestyle changes for improved kidney function

[David Dalton]

I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
that to 5 mg in the next few months,

Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function
but his office is closed for an extended period due
to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
family doctor.

My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.

My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
lots of water, which I always have done while on
lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
my diet pop intake.

Also are there any nutritional supplements that might
improve kidney function?

Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
it improves I may come off that waiting list.

--
David Dalton dal...@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)

[Jason]

In article <dalton-0D9A0C....@news.eternal-september.org>,

Buy this book and follow the advice that is in the book:

COPING WITH KIDNEY DISEASE by Mackenzie Walser, M.D.

Also, there are some other newer medications that are now used to treat
bipolar disorder. Ask your doctor to take you off of Lithium and prescribe
one or more of those newer medications. If he does not know about those
newer medications, ask him or her to prescribe valproic acid. You may want
to google "valproic acid" to find out more about it. If you keep taking
Lithium--you will develop total kidney failure.

[Pendrag0n]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:40:47 -0230, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com>
wrote:

Hello David welcome aboard.

First and foremost you/we need to eliminate ALL the junk in our
diet/lives if we are to stand any chance, otherwise doing anything is
pointless. No point taking supplements etc unless we have sorted out
the basics first. Though you're bound to find the odd smart arse who
drinks and smokes and has a rock and roll lifestyle and how it has
never affected them!!

Anything *diet* simply means the fat and sugar has been replaced with
something toxic, so avoid it all. Don't drink *too* much water,
because that is obviously unhealthy too (around 2ltrs a day is
considered fine)

Lose the milk/meat in your diet as much as possible, and concentrate
on fruit and veg. And dont forget the exercise. Sitting on your butt
all day is terrible for the body. So try to keep moving, and walk at
least 30 mins a day if possible.

Once you have a good foundation, then you can start working at it
properly. But we're all struggling here, apart from one or two smug
mugs, and so you will have to try various things and see what suits
you.

One thing is FOR SURE you need to do something NOW to prevent further
kidney damage, and should have considered alternatives long ago.

Doesn't sound like your current medical experts are too bright either,
if monitoring your decline in kidney function is all he is doing!!

This is interesting

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=13&m=339904

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[mainframetech]

> David Dalton  dal...@nfld.com  http://www.nfld.com/~dalton(home page)http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.htmlNewfoundland&Labrador Travel & Musichttp://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.htmlSalmon on the Thorns (mystic page)

>    "Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)

David,
Welcome! Come by as often as you like. We're not physicians here,
but we've been through much of the world of the Kidney Disease
sufferers. As mentioned above, read "Coping With Kidney Disease" by
Mackenzie Walser, MD. He worked in kidney research for Johns Hopkins
for 45 years. The book can be found on amazon.com and if you look at
the 'used' section, they have it there for $7.50+ shipping.

The book above recommends a Very Low Protein Diet (VLPD) which
relieves the kidneys of some of their work. When I got on it I gained
7 points on my eGFR almost immediately. The diet can slow and
sometimes stop the progressive deterioration common in CKD. On this
diet you also MUST take an amino acid supplement because you will not
be getting enough nutrition otherwise.

I agree with those above in that you should get rid of all
'garbage' food like diet soda or diet anything (al means ALL), and
avoid 'processed' food as much as possible. Exercise to the degree
you're able will help in any situation. As they say, everything in
moderation.

Chronic Kidney Disease can kill, so you're not entering an
amusement park. It's serious business in avoiding dialysis, which can
be bad for some people. I checked with 2 doctors and the statistics
at various hospitals are true. After going into dialysis, 25% of all
patients die in the first year, so it's something to avoid as long as
possible.

BTW, the VLPD is used as the primary treatment in Europe for over
50% of nephrologists. Here, you're lucky if they've even heard of it
or mention it. I've been on it for 6 years now, and I can swear to it
that it has helped me immensely.

Humans can get used to anything if they have to...:)

Come by anytime and ask about anything you need to know. There
are also some folks here that are on dialysis too, if you need to know
about that area.

Good Luck,
Chris

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 13, 9:10 pm, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> David Dalton  dal...@nfld.com  http://www.nfld.com/~dalton(home page)http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.htmlNewfoundland&Labrador Travel & Musichttp://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.htmlSalmon on the Thorns (mystic page)

>    "Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)

No matter what a person may be suffering from, THEY all automatically
assume that they are different from everybody else. NEWS FLASH: You
are NOT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCe10yt9wQ0

Everybody is fighting the same battle.

Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your
lifestyle.

http://tinyurl.com/c7vc3qv

STOP eating YOUR horrible junk food diet. And, get healthy now.

http://tinyurl.com/bmluxdp

[Pendrag0n]

It seems we're dumb n dumber when it comes to listening to good
advice. I was watching TV last night about an old woman who is a very
much anti smoking and discussing why we should ban cigarette
advertising. Smoked most of her life. Now has cancer and is STILL
smoking!!!

Same with many fat people. Desperate to lose weight, but wont give up
eating to excess which is what's killing them!!

Surely it has to be something beyond willpower and apathy?

I suspect nothing a good kick up the backside cant cure.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 14, 9:24 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 4/13/2012 9:10 PM, David Dalton wrote:
>
> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> > such as Depakote?
>

> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.

IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
backwards, Susan. :(

All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.

http://tinyurl.com/crp29wf

Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
about ten years ago.

http://tinyurl.com/cwm3t8g

Right off the top of my head, he should he should be eating less
protein or meat because a high protein diet puts a stress on kidney
function.

Now, all that the guy has to do is click on the above hyperlinks, and
follow through a couple dozen of the links. But, is he intelligent
enough to do that?

[Pendrag0n]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:26:06 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
<john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 14, 9:24 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> On 4/13/2012 9:10 PM, David Dalton wrote:
>>
>> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
>> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
>> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
>> > such as Depakote?
>>
>> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
>> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
>> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
>
>IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
>backwards, Susan. :(

He doesn't have kidney disease. The lithium is damaging his kidneys
and so a different course is required than for us who do have kidney
disease. Anything that lessens the load on his kidneys will be of
help, but I'm not sure if anything else will. He needs to get off the
lithium ASAP if he is to save his kidneys. I'm stunned his doctor
would sit there and watch his decline and do nothing. But again if
David feels he cannot/will not give up lithium then he's stuffed.

>All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/crp29wf
>
>Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
>that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
>about ten years ago.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cwm3t8g
>

Quite handy links as it happens.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 14, 11:01 am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:26:06 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 14, 9:24 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> >> On 4/13/2012 9:10 PM, David Dalton wrote:
>
> >> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> >> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> >> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> >> > such as Depakote?
>
> >> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
> >> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
> >> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
>
> >IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
> >backwards, Susan. :(
>
> He doesn't have kidney disease. The lithium is damaging his kidneys
> and so a different course is required than for us who do have kidney
> disease. Anything that lessens the load on his kidneys will be of
> help, but I'm not sure if anything else will. He needs to get off the
> lithium ASAP if he is to save his kidneys. I'm stunned his doctor
> would sit there and watch his decline and do nothing. But again if
> David feels he cannot/will not give up lithium then he's stuffed.

Then ALL you have to do is change one word.

http://tinyurl.com/blehtr3

> >All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.
>
http://tinyurl.com/crp29wf
>
> >Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments.  Better than
> >that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
> >about ten years ago.
>
http://tinyurl.com/cwm3t8g
>
> Quite handy links as it happens.

Man is a tool user, thus it make sense to create tools that make your
life easier.

On my custom google search engine, you will see on top of the page a
number of Tab links that will return different search results.

Tutorials Treatments Information Research Purchases

I will add "Diets" to the list, as Diets can be a special form of
treatment. My updated search engine will be operational within a few
minutes. :)

[mainframetech]

On Apr 14, 11:01 am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:

If he has an eGFR of 44, he has kidney disease. I'm sure he hasn't
just gotten that reading in the last month or two. That fulfills the
diagnosis for kidney disease. No matter what else may be going on.

Chris

["pill popper"]

"Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."

The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
otherwise demonstrated.

[John H. Gohde]

THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.

How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!

Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.

[David Dalton]

In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,

"pill popper" wrote:

> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."

Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
web page.

--

David Dalton dal...@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music

http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)

[Jason]

In article <dalton-E07097....@news.eternal-september.org>,

David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
> "pill popper" wrote:
>
> > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
>
> Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> web page.

Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
have bipolar disorder?

[David Dalton]

In article
<Jason-16041...@67-150-122-192.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
with other people offline.

[Jason]

In article <dalton-9D2C03....@news.eternal-september.org>,

You need to get off lithium but should probably go off of his slowly by
taking a slighly lower dose each week. It may take as long as two months
to totally go off of it. They do that when they take people off of
Prednisone. They call it tapering off.

You may want to google these drug names. They are now being used to treat
bipolar disorder:

risperidone
quetiapine
olanzapine
carbamazepine
divalproex
lamotrigine
oxcarbazepine
topiramate

Some of them have some bad side effects. I copied the above names out of
my Medical reference book from the section that is about bipolar disorder.

[Pendrag0n]

I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvinced
its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
don't, well we cannot cry about it later.

[Pendrag0n]

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:21:43 -0230, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com>

What you should also remember is once you were hooked on lithium it is
gonna take a lot to get you off, and that means hard work on your part
for a good few weeks probably. Most people give up a change in
medications in a few days, better the devil they know etc...but one
thing 100% sure is you have to get OFF lithium.

[mainframetech]

John,
It's not true that the person with a problem owns the problem every
time. Sometimes there are people with a problem that make further
problems for others without the others asking for it. Such as your
style of expression.

We can also look at the California outbreak of Pertussis, where
over 80% of the victims were vaccinated and were up to date with their
shots. The parents had done the generally accepted 'right thing' and
gotten the kids vaccinated, believing the general government and drug
industry story that vaccination confers immunity. They looked after
their kids and the kids got B. Pertussis. How did their lifestyle
cause their kids to be patients?

There was a time when schizophrenia was thought universally to be a
mental problem that built up in a person until it became obvious to
onlookers. Then it was thought that it was a genetic disease, and
finally, they found that it was an imbalance in cetain compounds in
the body and could be mostly cured by taking certain compounds
regularly. Of course, there will still be stupid fokks that wil think
the disease is caused by problems building up or by genetics, and they
will no doubt make other people's lives miserable with their little
wrong-headed conclusions.

The general rule for discussion here is that we discuss the topic
and not the poster. Personal insults do no one any good.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 17, 1:53 am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:21:43 -0230, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article

> ><Jason-1604122044540...@67-150-122-192.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
> > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> >> In article <dalton-E07097.00522517042...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >> David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
>
> >> > In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,

With a doctor's knowledge, of course.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 17, 12:14 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <dalton-9D2C03.01214317042...@news.eternal-september.org>,

>
>
>
>
>
> David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
> > In article

> > <Jason-1604122044540...@67-150-122-192.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
> >  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > > In article <dalton-E07097.00522517042...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > > David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,

Jason,
I would suggest as you direct people to do this and that with
medications, that you advise them to do it with a physician being
aware of changes being made in medication and treatments.

Chris

[John H. Gohde]

NEWS FLASH: Sucking down lithium is part of lifestyle.

Suckers are born everyday. Conventional medicine NEVER tells the
patient standing before them that taking THEIR toxic crap indefinitely
will eventually kill them, by any number of ways. NO THANKS, but I
prefer to deal with my problems, the natural way, as well as keep my
kidney in all my other organs in good health for as long as possible.

I can assure you that lithium has NEVER been part of my lifestyle, nor
will any toxic psychotropic medication for some imaginary psych
condition resulting from eating a crappy diet, etc,, etc., etc., is
ever going to be part of my lifestyle.

[John H. Gohde]

I gave up participating in sci.med.psychobiology a long time ago,
because it is full of very stupid legal drug addicts who have bought
hook line and sinker into the lies of conventional medicine.

sci.med.psychobiology should kindly stay off the fuck off
sci.medicine.nutrition, PLEASE!

Let the dead bury the dead, is what I say. I am too busy enjoying my
life to let a bunch of dumb-asses bum me out with all their stupidity,
whining, and refusal to live in reality.

[Ben Stidd]

So how do you propose to deal with your bipolar symptoms?
Ice water baths?

[dav...@agent.com]

The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.

["pill popper"]

> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? =A0Why do you have a
> bipolar disorder? =A0ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your
lifesty=
le."
>
> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. =A0To mention

> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> otherwise demonstrated.

"THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones to
spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a hoot, then
that is likewise THEIR problem.

How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!

Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be about
lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant, obnoxious,
dumb-asses IMHO."

There is no scientific evidenceepigenetic or otherwise, in your response.

So be it.

[Jason]

In article
<e4ed53ac-4329-48ff...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, "John
H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 17, 7:17=A0am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 9:02=A0pm, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 16, 3:51=A0pm, "pill popper" wrote:
> >
> > > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? =A0Why do you have =
> a
> > > > bipolar disorder? =A0ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lif=
> estyle."
> >
> > > > The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. =A0To mention

> > > > epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> > > > otherwise demonstrated.
> >

> > > THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. =A0Egro, they are the one=
> s
> > > to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. =A0If they do NOT give a

> > > hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
> >

> > > How much are you paying me? =A0That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
> >
> > > Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: =A0It is ALWAYS going to b=
> e
> > > about lifestyle. =A0Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> > > obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
> >
> > John,
> > =A0 =A0It's not true that the person with a problem owns the problem ever=
> y
> > time. =A0Sometimes there are people with a problem that make further
> > problems for others without the others asking for it. =A0Such as your
> > style of expression.
> >
> > =A0 =A0We can also look at the California outbreak of Pertussis, where

> > over 80% of the victims were vaccinated and were up to date with their

> > shots. =A0The parents had done the generally accepted 'right thing' and

> > gotten the kids vaccinated, believing the general government and drug

> > industry story that vaccination confers immunity. =A0They looked after
> > their kids and the kids got B. Pertussis. =A0How did their lifestyle

> > cause their kids to be patients?
> >

> > =A0 =A0There was a time when schizophrenia was thought universally to be =

> a
> > mental problem that built up in a person until it became obvious to

> > onlookers. =A0Then it was thought that it was a genetic disease, and

> > finally, they found that it was an imbalance in cetain compounds in
> > the body and could be mostly cured by taking certain compounds

> > regularly. =A0Of course, there will still be stupid fokks that wil think

> > the disease is caused by problems building up or by genetics, and they
> > will no doubt make other people's lives miserable with their little
> > wrong-headed conclusions.
> >

> > =A0 =A0The general rule for discussion here is that we discuss the topic
> > and not the poster. =A0Personal insults do no one any good.

> >
> > Chris
>
> NEWS FLASH: Sucking down lithium is part of lifestyle.
>
> Suckers are born everyday. Conventional medicine NEVER tells the
> patient standing before them that taking THEIR toxic crap indefinitely
> will eventually kill them, by any number of ways. NO THANKS, but I
> prefer to deal with my problems, the natural way, as well as keep my
> kidney in all my other organs in good health for as long as possible.
>
> I can assure you that lithium has NEVER been part of my lifestyle, nor
> will any toxic psychotropic medication for some imaginary psych
> condition resulting from eating a crappy diet, etc,, etc., etc., is
> ever going to be part of my lifestyle.

That's great for you but don't expect everyone that suffers from bipolar
disorder or heart disease or kidney disease or any other major diseases to
agree with you. My best friend has Lupus and has major muscle and bone
pains on a daily basis. I don't blame her for taking about 5 pain pills
per day. Yes, those pain pill may cause her to die before she is 60 years
old--but so what--at least the pain pills made her life a little bit
better. I don't even care if people that have pain smoke marijuana--do
you?

Jason

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 17, 5:25 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <e4ed53ac-4329-48ff-b0c1-5a38d8a80...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, "John

Let the Damned bury the Damned. And, let those smart enough to use
the brain that god gave them live!

Amen. :)

[Pendrag0n]

My physician couldn't give a toss. Isn't that the case with most of
us!! He's just giving free advice and opinion. Ul;timately its up to
the individual to do what he thinks is right. Yes, if he has a good
doc, use them. Most of us are on our own.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 17, 1:30 pm, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:

Nope. When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them and they come
back another day to wipe you out.

Chris

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
<john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Let the Damned bury the Damned. And, let those smart enough to use
>the brain that god gave them live!
>
>Amen. :)

Better use vaccines than let the children die.

http://www.gavialliance.org/library/news/gavi-features/2012/miracle-of-vaccines-deliver-on-africa-development/

<quote>
You are here:
Library
News
GAVI features
2012

“Miracle of Vaccines” will help deliver on Africa development


Seth Berkley speech underlines broader consequences of vaccination for
economic development


GAVI CEO, Seth Berkley, delivering the fourth annual Manhiça Foundation
lecture - "Miracle of Vaccines" - at Maputo University's Faculty of
Medicine. Photo credit: Eva-Lotta Jansson/2012.

Maputo, Mozambique, 12 March 2012 – GAVI CEO Seth Berkley underlined the
extraordinary potential of a new generation of life-saving vaccines for
African development in a landmark global health speech on Monday.

“Vaccination has a broad development impact that stretches far beyond
the immediate benefits to a child’s health,” said Dr. Berkley, who was
delivering the fourth annual Manhiça Foundation lecture – the Miracle of
Vaccines - at Maputo University’s Faculty of Medicine.

“Healthier children can attend school and learn more effectively. They
also live longer – a one year increase in life expectancy increases
labour productivity by four percent.”

According to a study by David Bloom, vaccination leads to increased
cognitive ability and a higher earning potential in adulthood.
Africa’s opportunity

“Ten countries account for the over 19 million unimmunised children in
the world; seven lie on the African continent,” said Dr. Berkley on his
first official visit to Africa since joining GAVI last year.

With GAVI support, African countries have the opportunity to introduce
new vaccines against pneumococcal disease and rotavirus, the primary
causes of pneumonia and diarrhoea respectively and biggest killers of
under-fives in the developing world.

“Each year, more than half a million children die of pneumococcal
disease, of which 90 percent are born in Africa,” said Dr. Berkley.

By the end of 2016, GAVI expects to help globally immunise 13.6 million
children against pneumococcal disease.
Mozambique

As part of his three-day visit to Mozambique, Dr. Berkley will be
discussing the country's own preparations for pneumococcal vaccine
introduction with the Ministry of Health.

Dr. Berkley started his visit by meeting with Premier Aires Ali, who
pledged his support for immunisation in Mozambique; he will also be
visiting GAVI partners on the ground, WHO and UNICEF.

Mozambique was one of the first countries to receive GAVI support in
2001; last October, GAVI approved Maputo’s application for pneumococcal
vaccine support - recognition that 13% of under-five deaths in
Mozambique are caused by pneumonia.

However, while Mozambique has made advances in vaccination over the last
decade, there are signs that an additional push for routine immunisation
is needed, particularly in health worker capacity and cold chain
storage. Slight increases in measles' cases have also led to concerns
about the level of protection achieved across the country.
Village Reach

Dr. Berkley also highlighted the role that non-governmental
organisations can play in facilitating vaccination delivery, pointing to
Village Reach's pioneering work in Cabo Delgado as one potential model
for Mozambique.
Vaccination has a broad development impact that stretches far beyond the
immediate benefits to a child’s health.

Dr. Seth Berkley, CEO, GAVI Alliance

Renaissance age of vaccines

Dr. Berkley likened the recent flux of new vaccines to a “Renaissance
age” of new vaccines. In the two decades from 1980-99, three new
vaccines were developed; in the following two decades, it is expected
that more than 12 will come on to the market.

“When my father was born in the 1900s, there was only one vaccine. When
I was born, there were a handful more. Now, my children have access to
many many more,” he said.
HPV and rubella

Last November, GAVI took the first steps towards offering support for
two new vaccines: HPV and rubella.
HPV is the main cause of cervical cancer, which kills over 270,000 women
every year; 85 percent of deaths occur in developing countries while in
Mozambique more than 33 percent of women's cancer is cervical cancer.

Dr. Berkley also listed other new vaccines that could benefit Africa in
the near future: conjugated typhoid vaccine and malaria.
Manhiça Foundation

With over three million recorded cases of malaria infection in
Mozambique each year, the Manhiça Foundation is playing a lead role in
conducting phase III trials of a potential breakthrough vaccine against
malaria.

Dr. Berkley is the third high-level representative from GAVI to deliver
the Manhiça Foundation lecture on global health in the past four years.
Former Vaccine Fund Chair Graça Machel and Her Royal Highness the
Infanta Cristina, Director of the International Area of "La Caixa" and
an important supporter of GAVI, delivered the keynote address in 2010
and 2011 respectively.

The lecture was chaired by Dr. Pascoal Mocumbi, former Mozambican
Premier (1994-2004) and President of the Manhiça Foundation.


Download a PDF of Seth Berkley's presentation
http://www.gavialliance.org/library/news/gavi-features/2012/manhica-mozambique-gh-lecture/

</quote>

--

http://www.twitter.com/aribertdeckers http://www.Journalist.is
http://www.kindersprechstunde.at http://www.pharmamafia.com
http://www.medulla.at http://www.ariplex.com/folia
http://www.ariplex.com/pixaloid http://www.ariplex.com/lyme/lymeblog

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 18, 6:46 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
>

> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Let the Damned bury the Damned.  And, let those smart enough to use
> >the brain that god gave them live!
>
> >Amen. :)
>
> Better use vaccines than let the children die.

Ha, ...hah, Ha!

Happy Oyster is clearly suffering from dementia, NOT to mention low
I.Q. :(

Having a senior moment, Happy Oyster?

[dav...@agent.com]

Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, Obesity, Lupus, etc. are proliferating.
We need to stop immunizing people.

[Jason]

In many cases, diseases and disorders are caused by the genes. For
example, if everyone of your relatives and ancestors died before the age
of 60 as a result of heart disease--you will probably also die before the
age of 60 as a result of heart disease. It's difficult to win a battle
with your genes. Believe or not--not all diseases are the result of
immunizing people. I had an aunt that developed Polio which is a terrible
disease. It affects nerves and can produce permanent muscle weaknesses,
paralysis and other symptoms. I am very glad that millions of people in
the world have immunizations to prevent them from getting polio and
various other terrible diseases such as anthrax and cholera.

I do agree that autism may be caused by the mercury that is still in some
vaccines.

[Jason]

In article <uu1to7tadgpuu8pq7...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

That is correct in regard to some doctors. A doctor also killed me by
ordering me to keep taking statins--and I was having major statin caused
side effects. I did not take her stupid advice.

[Jason]

In article <Jason-18041...@67-150-123-126.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

update: I meant to say my doctor almost killed me...

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 18, 3:31 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com wrote:

News Flash: Lifestyle, as well as vitamin D, are more than capable of
turning on and off genes that affect the so called genetic diseases.

[Happy Oyster]

http://www.gavialliance.org/media_centre/facts/index.php

<quote>
GAVI Alliance
Home > Media and Publications > Facts and figures


Facts and figures
Every year, academics, journalists, teachers and students send the GAVI
Alliance queries seeking statistics about our organisation’s work well
as more general information about vaccines and immunisation.

To help answer their questions, the Alliance has started to compile an
online database of facts and figures which draws both on GAVI numbers as
well as sourcing our partners, including WHO, UNICEF and civil society
organisations. It is hoped this information will educate and inform as
well as encourage critical reflection on global immunisation.

5 million
The number of future deaths averted as a result of GAVI support provided
since 2000 is 5 million.
Source: WHO projections 2010

72
There are 72 countries that can apply for GAVI support. Together they
make up half the world’s population.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

US$ 4 billion
GAVI has committed to provide US$ 4 billion to the health programmes of
75 developing countries between 2000 and 2015.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2009

US$ 750 million
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave GAVI a start-up grant of US$
750 million in 1999.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

267 million
The number of additional children immunised with three doses against
hepatitis B vaccine since GAVI was established is 267 million.
Source: WHO projections 2010

45
Forty-five countries have been approved for GAVI support for health
system strengthening.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

53 %
Fifty-three percent of GAVI vaccines are produced by pharmaceutical
companies in emerging markets.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

US$ 800 million
GAVI is investing US$ 800 million in developing countries’ health
systems between 2006 and 2015.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

67
There are 67 developing countries receiving GAVI funds to immunise
children with hepatitis B vaccine.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

530,000
Rotavirus disease claims 530,000 lives every year.
Source: WHO 2004

5 in 1
Pentavalent vaccine covers 5 antigens: Hib, hepatitis B, diphtheria,
tetanus and pertussis.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

24.1 million
As many as 24.1 million babies are not vaccinated against common
diseases.
Source: WHO 2008

US$ 30 million
GAVI is investing US$ 30 million in civil society organisations in
developing countries.
Source: GAVI Alliance 2008

699 million
UNICEF supplied 699 million autodisable syringes to developing countries
in 2007.
Source: UNICEF 2007

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 18, 3:31 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com wrote:

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:24:08 -0700, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> That is correct in regard to some doctors. A doctor also killed me by
>> ordering me to keep taking statins--and I was having major statin caused
>> side effects. I did not take her stupid advice.
>
>update: I meant to say my doctor almost killed me...

There is a slight difference... One could call it narrow escape, I
guess.

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:45:16 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
<john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>News Flash: Lifestyle, as well as vitamin D, are more than capable of
>turning on and off genes that affect the so called genetic diseases.

That is plain bullshit.

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:22:52 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
<john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>News Flash: Lifestyle, as well as vitamin D, are more than capable
>of
>turning on and off genes that affect the so called genetic diseases.

No, that is an insane claim.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 18, 6:46 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
>

> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Let the Damned bury the Damned.  And, let those smart enough to use
> >the brain that god gave them live!
>
> >Amen. :)
>
> Better use vaccines than let the children die.
>

Most vaccines aren't worth anything these days. The big California
outbreak of B. Pertussis (whooping cough) had 80% of victims up to
date with their vaccine shots. Most vaccines for children don't do
half of what they're supposed to and (happy drug companies) neeed to
be given up to 3 times just to get 3 years worth of immunity. As well
some of them are killing and injuring childen to a much greater degree
than expected, like the HPV Gardasil vaccine, which they're notr
trying to get boys to take. Of course, the drug industry has gotten
itself a carte blanche freebee. They aren't any longer responsible
for any vaccine related injury.

> http://www.gavialliance.org/library/news/gavi-features/2012/miracle-o...

> Download a PDF of Seth Berkley's presentationhttp://www.gavialliance.org/library/news/gavi-features/2012/manhica-m...
>


Sounds like a lot of advertising.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 18, 3:15 pm, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
>
>
>
>
>
> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 18, 6:46 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
>
> >> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Let the Damned bury the Damned.  And, let those smart enough to use
> >> >the brain that god gave them live!
>
> >> >Amen. :)
>
> >> Better use vaccines than let the children die.
>
> >Ha, ...hah, Ha!
>
> >Happy Oyster is clearly suffering from dementia, NOT to mention low
> >I.Q.  :(
>
> >Having a senior moment, Happy Oyster?
>
> http://www.gavialliance.org/media_centre/facts/index.php
>
> <quote>
> GAVI Alliance
> Home > Media and Publications > Facts and figures
>
> Facts and figures
> Every year, academics, journalists, teachers and students send the GAVI
> Alliance queries seeking statistics about our organisation’s work well
> as more general information about vaccines and immunisation.
>

No doubt the 'facts and figures' are made to look better than they
are. Vaccines are dangerous tro children and seniors more than the
average person, and those are the people that are pushed more to have
them!

[mainframetech]

On Apr 18, 3:31 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com wrote:

Jason,
The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
been found. Andrew Wakefield, who was vilified by the drug companies
has since been found to have been right. There are many studies that
have shown that his results were right in finding the MMR vaccine was
the cause of difficulties in the intestines which entered the
bloodstream and caused trouble in the brain for vaccinated children.
I will put a list of the studies that either duplicated Wakefield's
results, or agreed with his results.

If you want to see the corrective treatment for ASD and related
diseases, there is a website for Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, who was
a neurosurgeon and when her son got Autism (ASD) she studied and
became a pediatrician and found a diet that would clean up his 'gut'
and correct his autism. She now uses her method successfully on many
other children. Of course, the drug companies hope she will die,
because they sell really costly medicines for the disorder that mostly
do nothing.
http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=35

While the polio vaccine has done amazing things when it was new,
now the vacine is like many other vaccines in that it was made to be
very weak and needs more than one shot to make it work (booster). All
for the drug industry profits. Soon they will come out with a vaccine
for flaky dandruff and the government will make it mandatory.

Chris

Here's the list of studies that agree or support Wakefield:
The following peer-reviewed papers support the findings of the
original work by Wakefield and colleagues at the Royal Free Hospital
in the UK:

1) Furlano R, Anthony A, Day R, Brown A, Mc Garvey L, Thomson M, et
al. Colonic CD8 and T cell filtration with epithelial damage in
children with autism. J Pediatr 2001;138:366-72.

2) Torrente F., Machado N., Perez-Machado M., Furlano R., Thomson M.,
Davies S., Wakefield AJ, Walker-Smith JA, Murch SH. Enteropathy with T
cell infiltration and epithelial IgG deposition in autism. Molecular
Psychiatry. 2002;7:375-382.

3) Ashwood P, Murch SH, Anthony A, Hayes C, Machado MP, Torrente F,
Thomson MA, Heuschkel R, Wakefield AJ., Mucosal and peripheral blood
lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with regressive autism and
gastrointestinal symptoms: Mucosal immune activation and reduced
counter regulatory interleukin-10. Gastroenterol. 2002;122
(Suppl):A617

4) Ashwood P, Anthony A, Torrente F, Wakefield AJ. Spontaneous mucosal
lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and
gastrointestinal symptoms: mucosal immune activation and reduced
counter regulatory interleukin-10. J Clin Immunol. 2004;24(6):664-73.

5) Wakefield AJ., Puleston J. Montgomery SM., Anthony A., O’Leary
J.J., Murch SH Entero-colonic encephalopathy, autism and opioid
receptor ligands. Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics.
2002;16:663-674

6) Wakefield AJ. The Gut-Brain Axis in Childhood developmental
Disorders. Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition.
2002;34:S14-S17

7) Uhlmann V, Martin CM, Sheils O, Pilkington L, Silva I, Killalea A,
Murch SH, Wakefield AJ, O’Leary JJ., Potential viral pathogenic
mechanism for new variant inflammatory bowel disease. Molecular
Pathology 2002;55:84-90

8) Ashwood P, Anthony A, Pellicer AA, Torrente F, Wakefield AJ.
Intestinal lymphocyte populations in children with regressive autism:
evidence for extensive mucosal immunopathology. Journal of Clinical
Immunology, 2003;23:504-517.

9) Torrente F, Anthony A, Heuschkel RB, Thomson MA, Ashwood P, Murch
SH. Focal-enhanced gastritis in regressive autism with features
distinct from Crohn's and Helicobacter pylori gastritis. Am J
Gastroenterol. 2004;99:598-605

10) Ashwood P, Wakefield AJ. Immune activation of peripheral blood and
mucosal CD3+ lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and
gastrointestinal symptoms. J Neuroimmunol. 2006;173(1-2):126-34.

11) Wakefield AJ, Ashwood P, Limb K, Anthony A. The significance of
ileo-colonic lymphoid nodular hyperplasia in children with autistic
spectrum disorder. Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2005 Aug;17(8):827-36.

The following two peer-reviewed papers from the Royal Free Hospital in
the UK were withdrawn for political reasons, but the science remains
valid and relevant

1) Wakefield AJ, Murch SM, Anthony A et al., Ileal- lymphoid- nodular
Hyperplasia, Non- specific Colitis, and Pervasive Developmental
Disorder in Children, The Lancet, 1998, 351(9103): 637– 41.

2) Wakefield AJ, Anthony A, Murch SH, Thomson M, Montgomery SM, Davies
S, Walker-Smith JA. Enterocolitis in children with developmental
disorder. American Journal of Gastroenterology 2000;95:2285-2295.

The following peer-reviewed papers duplicate Dr. Wakefield’s original
findings in five additional countries, including the US, Italy,
Venezuela, Canada and Poland:

1) Gonzalez, L. et al., Endoscopic and Histological Characteristics
of the Digestive Mucosa in Autistic Children with gastro-Intestinal
Symptoms. Arch Venez Pueric Pediatr, 2005;69:19-25.

2) Balzola, F., et al., Panenteric IBD-like disease in a patient with
regressive autism shown for the first time by wireless capsule
enteroscopy: Another piece in the jig-saw of the gut-brain syndrome?
American Journal of Gastroenterology, 2005. 100(4): p. 979- 981.

3) Balzola F et al . Autistic enterocolitis: confirmation of a new
inflammatory bowel disease in an Italian cohort of patients.
Gastroenterology 2005;128(Suppl. 2);A-303.

4) Krigsman A, Boris M, Goldblatt A, Stott C. Clinical Presentation
and Histologic Findings at Ileocolonoscopy in Children with Autistic
Spectrum Disorder and Chronic Gastrointestinal Symptoms. Autism
Insights. 2009;1:1–11.

5) Horvath K., Papadimitriou J.C., Rabsztyn A., Drachenberg C., Tildon
J.T. 1999. Gastrointestinal abnormalities in children with autism. J.
Pediatrics 135: 559-563.

6) Sabra S, Bellanti JA, Colon AR. Ileal lymphoid hyperplasia, non-
specific colitis and pervasive developmental disorder in children. The
Lancet 1998;352:234-5.

7) Sabra A, Hartman D, Zeligs BJ et al., Linkage of ileal-lymphoid-
nodular hyperplasia (ILNH), food allergy and CNS developmental
abnormalities: evidence for a non-IgE association, Ann Allergy Asthma
Immunol, 1999;82:8

8) Galiatsatos P, Gologan A, Lamoureux E, Autistic enterocolitis: Fact
or fiction? Can J Gastroenterol. 2009:23:95-98

9) Jarocka-Cyrta et al. Brief report: eosinophilic esophagitis as a
cause of feeding problems in an autistic boy. The first reported
case.J. Aut. Dev. Disord. Online July 10, 2010

The following articles support the importance of recognizing and
treating gastrointestinal symptoms in autistic children:

1) Buie T, et al. Pediatrics. 2010 Jan;125 Suppl 1:S19-29.
Recommendations for evaluation and treatment of common
gastrointestinal problems in children with ASDs.

2) Buie T, et al. Pediatrics. 2010 Jan;125 Suppl 1:S1-18.
Evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment of gastrointestinal disorders in
individuals with ASDs: a consensus report.

The following peer-reviewed papers provide further support for
gastrointestinal disturbances involving the immune system in autism.

1) Jyonouchi H., Sun S., Lee H. 2001. Proinflammatory and regulatory
cytokine production associated with innate and adaptive immune
responses in children with autism spectrum disorders and developmental
regression. J. Neuroimmunol. 120(1-2):170-9

2) Jyonouchi H, Geng L, Ruby A, Zimmerman-Bier B. Dysregulated Innate
Immune Responses in Young Children with Autism Spectrum Disorders:
Their Relationship to Gastrointestinal Symptoms and Dietary
Intervention. Neuropsychobiology. 2005;28:5177-85

3) Jyonouchi H, Geng L, Ruby A, Reddy C, Zimmerman-Bier B. Evaluation
of an association between gastrointestinal symptoms and cytokine
production against common dietary proteins in children with autism
spectrum disorders. J Pediatr.2005;146(5):605-10.

4) Jyonouchi H, Sun S, Itokazu N. Innate immunity associated with
inflammatory responses and cytokine production against common dietary
proteins in patients with autism spectrum disorder.
Neuropsychobiology. 2002;46(2):76-84.

5) Vojdani A, O'Bryan T, Green JA, McCandless J, Woeller KN, Vojdani
E, Nourian AA, Cooper EL. Immune response to dietary proteins, gliadin
and cerebellar peptides in children with autism. Nutr. Neurosci.
2004;7:151-61.

6) Whiteley P, Haracopos D, Knivsberg AM, Reichelt KL, Parlar S,
Jacobsen J, Seim A, Pedersen L, Schondel M, Shattock P. The ScanBrit
randomised, controlled, single-blind study of a gluten- and casein-
free dietary intervention for children with autism spectrum disorders.
Nutr Neurosci. 2010;13(2):87-100.

7) Knivsberg AM, Reichelt KL, Høien T, Nødland M. A randomised,
controlled study of dietary intervention in autistic syndromes. Nutr
Neurosci. 2002;5(4):251-61.

8) Balzola F, et al. Beneficial behavioural effects of IBD therapy and
gluten/casein-free diet in an Italian cohort of patients with autistic
enterocolitis followed over one year. Gastroenterology 2008;4:S1364.

9) Valicenti-McDermott M., McVicar K., Rapin I., et al., Frequency of
Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders
and Association with Family History of Autoimmune Disease.
Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics. 2006;27:128-136

10) Chen B, Girgis S, El-Matary W. Childhood Autism and Eosinophilic
Colitis. Digestion 2010;18:127-129

11) Sandler R, Finegold SM., Bolte ER., et al. Short-term benefit from
oral vancomycin treatment of regressive-onset autism. J Child Neurol.
2000;15:429-435

[Jason]

In article
<612eb7ad-0952-4286...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, "John
H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 18, 3:31=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com=

> wrote:
> > > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >dav...@agent.com wrote:
> > > >> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > >> > "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> "pill popper" wrote:

> > > >> >>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? =A0Why do you =
> have a
> > > >> >>> bipolar disorder? =A0ANSWER: It is always going to be due to you=
> r
> > lifestyle."
> >
> > > >> >>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. =A0To ment=
> ion
> > > >> >>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder un=
> less
> > > >> >>> otherwise demonstrated.
> >
> > > >> >>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. =A0Egro, they are th=
> e ones
> > > >> >>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. =A0If they do NOT giv=

> e a
> > > >> >>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
> >

> > > >> >>How much are you paying me? =A0That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
> >
> > > >> >>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: =A0It is ALWAYS going=
> to be
> > > >> >>about lifestyle. =A0Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> > > >> >>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
> >
> > > >> >I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvin=

> ced
> > > >> >its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
> > > >> >changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
> > > >> >don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
> >
> > > >> The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
> > > >> When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
> >

> > > > =A0 Nope. =A0When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them and they =

> come
> > > >back another day to wipe you out.
> >
> > > Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, Obesity, Lupus, etc. are proliferating.
> > > We need to stop immunizing people.
> >
> > In many cases, diseases and disorders are caused by the genes.
>
> News Flash: Lifestyle, as well as vitamin D, are more than capable of
> turning on and off genes that affect the so called genetic diseases.

Believe it or not--you can't turn off genes.

[Jason]

In article
<a382dcc8-6098-4d68...@v22g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 18, 3:31=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com=

> wrote:
> > > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >dav...@agent.com wrote:
> > > >> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > >> > "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> "pill popper" wrote:

> > > >> >>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? =A0Why do you =
> have a

> > > >> >>> bipolar disorder? =A0ANSWER: It is always going to be due to you=
> r
> > lifestyle."
> >
> > > >> >>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. =A0To ment=
> ion
> > > >> >>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder un=
> less
> > > >> >>> otherwise demonstrated.
> >

> > > >> >>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. =A0Egro, they are th=

> e ones

> > > >> >>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. =A0If they do NOT giv=

> e a
> > > >> >>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
> >

> > > >> >>How much are you paying me? =A0That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
> >
> > > >> >>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: =A0It is ALWAYS going=
> to be

> > > >> >>about lifestyle. =A0Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> > > >> >>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
> >
> > > >> >I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvin=

> ced
> > > >> >its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
> > > >> >changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
> > > >> >don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
> >
> > > >> The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
> > > >> When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
> >

> > > > =A0 Nope. =A0When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them and they =

> http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=3D35

> 5) Wakefield AJ., Puleston J. Montgomery SM., Anthony A., O=92Leary

> J.J., Murch SH Entero-colonic encephalopathy, autism and opioid
> receptor ligands. Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics.
> 2002;16:663-674
>
> 6) Wakefield AJ. The Gut-Brain Axis in Childhood developmental
> Disorders. Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition.
> 2002;34:S14-S17
>
> 7) Uhlmann V, Martin CM, Sheils O, Pilkington L, Silva I, Killalea A,

> Murch SH, Wakefield AJ, O=92Leary JJ., Potential viral pathogenic

> mechanism for new variant inflammatory bowel disease. Molecular
> Pathology 2002;55:84-90
>
> 8) Ashwood P, Anthony A, Pellicer AA, Torrente F, Wakefield AJ.
> Intestinal lymphocyte populations in children with regressive autism:
> evidence for extensive mucosal immunopathology. Journal of Clinical
> Immunology, 2003;23:504-517.
>
> 9) Torrente F, Anthony A, Heuschkel RB, Thomson MA, Ashwood P, Murch
> SH. Focal-enhanced gastritis in regressive autism with features
> distinct from Crohn's and Helicobacter pylori gastritis. Am J
> Gastroenterol. 2004;99:598-605
>
> 10) Ashwood P, Wakefield AJ. Immune activation of peripheral blood and
> mucosal CD3+ lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and
> gastrointestinal symptoms. J Neuroimmunol. 2006;173(1-2):126-34.
>
> 11) Wakefield AJ, Ashwood P, Limb K, Anthony A. The significance of
> ileo-colonic lymphoid nodular hyperplasia in children with autistic
> spectrum disorder. Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2005 Aug;17(8):827-36.
>
> The following two peer-reviewed papers from the Royal Free Hospital in
> the UK were withdrawn for political reasons, but the science remains
> valid and relevant
>
> 1) Wakefield AJ, Murch SM, Anthony A et al., Ileal- lymphoid- nodular
> Hyperplasia, Non- specific Colitis, and Pervasive Developmental

> Disorder in Children, The Lancet, 1998, 351(9103): 637=96 41.

>
> 2) Wakefield AJ, Anthony A, Murch SH, Thomson M, Montgomery SM, Davies
> S, Walker-Smith JA. Enterocolitis in children with developmental
> disorder. American Journal of Gastroenterology 2000;95:2285-2295.
>

> The following peer-reviewed papers duplicate Dr. Wakefield=92s original

> findings in five additional countries, including the US, Italy,
> Venezuela, Canada and Poland:
>
> 1) Gonzalez, L. et al., Endoscopic and Histological Characteristics
> of the Digestive Mucosa in Autistic Children with gastro-Intestinal
> Symptoms. Arch Venez Pueric Pediatr, 2005;69:19-25.
>
> 2) Balzola, F., et al., Panenteric IBD-like disease in a patient with
> regressive autism shown for the first time by wireless capsule
> enteroscopy: Another piece in the jig-saw of the gut-brain syndrome?
> American Journal of Gastroenterology, 2005. 100(4): p. 979- 981.
>
> 3) Balzola F et al . Autistic enterocolitis: confirmation of a new
> inflammatory bowel disease in an Italian cohort of patients.
> Gastroenterology 2005;128(Suppl. 2);A-303.
>
> 4) Krigsman A, Boris M, Goldblatt A, Stott C. Clinical Presentation
> and Histologic Findings at Ileocolonoscopy in Children with Autistic
> Spectrum Disorder and Chronic Gastrointestinal Symptoms. Autism

> Insights. 2009;1:1=9611.

> 7) Knivsberg AM, Reichelt KL, H=F8ien T, N=F8dland M. A randomised,

> controlled study of dietary intervention in autistic syndromes. Nutr
> Neurosci. 2002;5(4):251-61.
>
> 8) Balzola F, et al. Beneficial behavioural effects of IBD therapy and
> gluten/casein-free diet in an Italian cohort of patients with autistic
> enterocolitis followed over one year. Gastroenterology 2008;4:S1364.
>
> 9) Valicenti-McDermott M., McVicar K., Rapin I., et al., Frequency of
> Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders
> and Association with Family History of Autoimmune Disease.
> Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics. 2006;27:128-136
>
> 10) Chen B, Girgis S, El-Matary W. Childhood Autism and Eosinophilic
> Colitis. Digestion 2010;18:127-129
>
> 11) Sandler R, Finegold SM., Bolte ER., et al. Short-term benefit from
> oral vancomycin treatment of regressive-onset autism. J Child Neurol.
> 2000;15:429-435

I agree with you.
Jason

[Jason]

In article <df5uo75pvsa5hhu1d...@4ax.com>, Happy Oyster

<*@*.*> wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:24:08 -0700, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> >> That is correct in regard to some doctors. A doctor also killed me by
> >> ordering me to keep taking statins--and I was having major statin caused
> >> side effects. I did not take her stupid advice.
> >
> >update: I meant to say my doctor almost killed me...
>
> There is a slight difference... One could call it narrow escape, I
> guess.

It was--since if I had kept taking statins--they would have killed me.
They killed the husband of a email friend of mine.

[Bob Officer]

<sarcasm>
and I have 1000's of supporters in email, of course.
</sarcasm>


--
Bob Officer
I used to wonder just what a "calcium deficient idiot" was, and now I know
"I don't need to know the breakdown chains to know when
I am calcium deficient idiot." Carole Hubbard
Message-ID: <5Mfbp.11718$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

[Pendrag0n]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:24:08 -0700, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> That is correct in regard to some doctors. A doctor also killed me by
>> ordering me to keep taking statins--and I was having major statin caused
>> side effects. I did not take her stupid advice.
>
>update: I meant to say my doctor almost killed me...

That was a given Jason...mind you we do have a few Zombies here from
time to time :)

[dav...@agent.com]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> >> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
>> >> > "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> "pill popper" wrote:
>> >> >>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? �Why do you have

>> >> >>> BP? �ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."

>> >>
>> >> >>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. �To mention
>> >> >>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
>> >> >>> otherwise demonstrated.
>> >>

>> >> >>THE person w/the problem OWNS the problem. �Ergo, they're the ones

>> >> >>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. �If they do NOT give a
>> >> >>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>> >>
>> >> >>How much are you paying me? �That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>> >>
>> >> >>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: �It is ALWAYS going to be
>> >> >>about lifestyle. �Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
>> >> >>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
>> >>
>> >> >I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvinced
>> >> >its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
>> >> >changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
>> >> >don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
>> >>
>> >> The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
>> >> When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
>> >

>> >When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them & they come

>> >back another day to wipe you out.
>>
>> Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, Obesity, Lupus, etc. are proliferating.
>> We need to stop immunizing people.
>
>In many cases, diseases and disorders are caused by the genes. For
>example, if everyone of your relatives and ancestors died before the age
>of 60 as a result of heart disease--you will probably also die before the
>age of 60 as a result of heart disease. It's difficult to win a battle
>with your genes. Believe or not--not all diseases are the result of
>immunizing people. I had an aunt that developed Polio which is a terrible
>disease. It affects nerves and can produce permanent muscle weaknesses,
>paralysis and other symptoms. I am very glad that millions of people in
>the world have immunizations to prevent them from getting polio and
>various other terrible diseases such as anthrax and cholera.
>

>I do agree autism may be caused by the mercury that is still in
>some vaccines.

Normally, those with autism & other defects would be more likely
to die young from the diseases. But when you immunize against
those diseases, it allows more of the defects to grow to adulthood.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 5:21 am, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > dav...@agent.com wrote:

How does one immunize themselves against autism?

This is what I got to read, for a good laugh.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 18, 8:00 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <612eb7ad-0952-4286-ad56-db5fdbf74...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, "John

YOU are the one here who is confused. Why am I NOT surprised?

Epigenetics - Lifestyle Trumps Family History

http://tinyurl.com/c7vc3qv

Furthermore, research has shown that vitamin D can turn both off on
and on genes. In fact, that is precisely why vitamin D is effective
against cancer and a host of other diseases.

Quite frankly, YOUR quite obvious mental problems are NOT worth me
wasting anymore of my precious time on this issue, throwing pearls
before swine.

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 05:07:26 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not very impressive. 99% conjecture and post hoc fallacy. The studies
he cites are questionable in construction and the structuring of
analysis on 1st read through.

[Steelclaws]

Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote in
news:vp30p79jikk10hcik...@4ax.com:

>>> Believe it or not--you can't turn off genes.
>>
>>YOU are the one here who is confused. Why am I NOT surprised?
>>
>>Epigenetics - Lifestyle Trumps Family History
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/c7vc3qv
>>
>>Furthermore, research has shown that vitamin D can turn both off on
>>and on genes. In fact, that is precisely why vitamin D is effective
>>against cancer and a host of other diseases.
>>
>>Quite frankly, YOUR quite obvious mental problems are NOT worth me
>>wasting anymore of my precious time on this issue, throwing pearls
>>before swine.
>
> Not very impressive. 99% conjecture and post hoc fallacy. The studies
> he cites are questionable in construction and the structuring of
> analysis on 1st read through.

Orac has a good dissect on alternut abuse of epigenetics:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/04/epigenetics_does_not_mean.php

--
There is no reason why claims of conspiracy should be
credited, if no real evidence can be produced to support it.
- Mary Lefkowitz

[Happy Oyster]

Despite they know - AND ARE TOLD ABOUT IT - doctors are so doggone
stupid to prescribe medicaments which are contraindicated. The
interesting point: how do they react when one tells them that they are
messing up.

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:41:59 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
<mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Better use vaccines than let the children die.
>>
> Most vaccines aren't worth anything these days.

That is an insane claim.

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
<mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
>been found. Andrew Wakefield, who

Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
market!

[Happy Oyster]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
<mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> No doubt the 'facts and figures' are made to look better than they
>are. Vaccines are dangerous tro children and seniors more than the
>average person, and those are the people that are pushed more to have
>them!

That is paranoia and conspiracy-madness.

[Jason]

In article <rpbvo7lg2ctge6484...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

Yes--as you have probably figured out from my spelling errors and grammar
errors--I don't edit my posts.

[Jason]

What type of diseases are you discussing?

[dav...@agent.com]

"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Before immunization, most people would have a bout with a disease,
and come out just fine. A small % would die from the disease, and
that small % is the group more likely to have Autism, ADHD, Bipolar,
Obesity, Lupus, etc., which is why the incidences of those defects
has increased since before immunization.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>

> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>
> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
> market!

Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
the same day. If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.

But, please be sure to tell us where you are residing, so that we can
send your relatives and love ones flowers on your sudden departure
from this life for being foolish enough to believe that the
vaccination industry is nothing but scientific fraud. :)

[Happy Oyster]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
<john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>>
>> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
>> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>>
>> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
>> market!
>
>Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
>vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
>the same day.

Thats is an insane idea. No wonder John H. Gohde has it.

[Jason]

Do you agree that the vaccine for polio had helped to prevent millions of
people from developing polio? Have you taken the polio vaccine?

[mainframetech]

John,
If the subject of Autism type disorders and their treatment
interests you, go to the site I noted above authored by Dr. Natasha
Campbell-McBride. It's at:
http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=35

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 19, 10:11 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:41:59 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>

> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Better use vaccines than let the children die.
>
> >  Most vaccines aren't worth anything these days.
>
> That is an insane claim.
>
> --
>
> http://www.twitter.com/aribertdeckers http://www.Journalist.is     http://www.kindersprechstunde.at       http://www.pharmamafia.comhttp://www.medulla.at                 http://www.ariplex.com/foliahttp://www.ariplex.com/pixaloid       http://www.ariplex.com/lyme/lymeblog

Tell it to the young girls that have been paid off at the vaccine
court...quietly...:)

Chris

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 3:10 pm, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
>

> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>
> >> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
> >> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>
> >> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
> >> market!
>
> >Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
> >vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
> >the same day.
>
> Thats is an insane idea. No wonder John H. Gohde has it.

That is less than your ilk give to new born babies and infants every
day of the week.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 19, 10:13 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>

> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  No doubt the 'facts and figures' are made to look better than they
> >are.  Vaccines are dangerous tro children and seniors more than the
> >average person, and those are the people that are pushed more to have
> >them!
>
> That is paranoia and conspiracy-madness.
> --
>

Nope. It's not. And my voice is just as valid as yours here...:)

Chris

[mainframetech]

Interesting. After looking through the many proofs I presented of
the studies that verified or backed up Wakefield's results, out pops a
statement with no backup whatsoever...:)

Now if there were any proof that Wakefield was a forger and tried to
sell his own vaccine, I'd like to see it. But you won't find it from
any legitimate site. Now, if you want to discuss Brian Deer, there
you could find some nasty history. I figure he once wrote for the
National Enquirer...:)

Chris

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>>
>> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
>> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>>
>> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
>> market!
>
>Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
>vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
>the same day. If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
>afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.

John,stop be silly. No one takes 100 shots of MMR. No one but an
idiot would suggest such a thing.

You need to understand, The courts finding was Wakefield falsified
information. HE made stuff up. HE lied and was caught.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 8:32 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
> "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>
> >> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
> >> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>
> >> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
> >> market!
>
> >Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
> >vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
> >the same day.  If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
> >afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.
>
> John,stop be silly. No one takes 100 shots of MMR. No one but an
> idiot would suggest such a thing.

Look who is chicken, now!

No, I think that you quacks should either step up to the plate or
admit, that you guys are lying through your teeth.

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:31:44 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 19, 8:32 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>> "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>>
>> >> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
>> >> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>>
>> >> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
>> >> market!
>>
>> >Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
>> >vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
>> >the same day.  If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
>> >afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.
>>
>> John,stop be silly. No one takes 100 shots of MMR. No one but an
>> idiot would suggest such a thing.
>
>Look who is chicken, now!

No John, the argument you are using is a common fallacy. One which
only an Idiot would use in the discussion. IT is an irrational act to
take an overdoes of a vaccine. It doesn't happen in the real world.

Grow up! You debate/and discuss things like an 8 year old child.

>No, I think that you quacks should either step up to the plate or
>admit, that you guys are lying through your teeth.

No place, in any literature on Vaccines have I seen such a silly idea
brought forth by anyone else.

When you counter the proven finding of a court, that Wakefield forged
the results of test, with a demand that people take irreconcilably
large/massive doses of vaccine, shows you can't handle loosing an
argument.

[dav...@agent.com]

>Do you agree the vaccine for polio helped to prevent millions of

>people from developing polio? Have you taken the polio vaccine?

If we allow the population to rise to 8 or 9 billion, there will be
huge problems. If we just use birth control to limit population,
there will be fewer young workers to support a growing number
of elderly/retirees, which isn't sustainable. We must have
death control, too. We could start by stopping the suppression
of influenza, and see how that goes. You know, stop making
flu vaccines and stop killing infected animals.

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 8:32 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
> "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>
> >> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
> >> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>
> >> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
> >> market!
>
> >Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
> >vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
> >the same day.  If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
> >afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.
>
> John,stop be silly. No one takes 100 shots of MMR. No one but an
> idiot would suggest such a thing.
>
> You need to understand, The courts finding was Wakefield falsified
> information. HE made stuff up. HE lied and was caught.

You mean that the Brits railroaded Wakefield, don't you?

The court in the American Lawsuit has yet to rule, or are you having
another senior moment?

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 20, 2:38 am, dav...@agent.com wrote:

> We could start by stopping the suppression
> of influenza, and see how that goes.

Ha, hah, ... Ha! LOL, tell me another tall tale.

> You know, stop making
> flu vaccines and stop killing infected animals.

YES, please do. :)

[mainframetech]

On Apr 19, 8:32 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:

Wakefield was vindicated, but the supporters of the drug industry
can't afford to admit it and so the attacks on Wakefield wil continue
for a while until the word gets around that he was right.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 20, 2:38 am, dav...@agent.com wrote:

The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion. There aren't any real
efforts any more to limit it. The old ZPG movement has died out years
ago, and some areas of humankind think they have to repopulate the
world only with their own people, so they go at it with a will...:)

If you want a place to start cutting down on elderly and senior
citizens, let them do it themselves by choice. Dr. Kevorkian was
right, that sane folks have a right to decide about ending their own
life. The laws have changed to allow it in some places now, and will
probably spread.

Stopping making vaccines won't do much to eliminate humans, since
most vaccines (not all) don't work as well as they were advertised to
do. Check the news on 'outbreaks' of diseases that are being
vaccinated against. You'll find that many outbreaks have most
patients up to date on vaccinations. And the normal resistance to Flu
that humans have works better at avoiding Flu the second time around
and is far better than a Flu shot, which sometimes leads to injury
anyway. You're better off keeping your vitamin D3 levels up to avoid
Flu.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 20, 7:00 am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 8:32 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:59:31 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
> > "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >On Apr 19, 10:12 am, Happy Oyster <*@*.*> wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>
> > >> <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >  The cause of many childhood autism spectrum disorders (ASD) have
> > >> >been found.  Andrew Wakefield, who
>
> > >> Wakefield is a forger and only wanted to push his own vaccine into the
> > >> market!
>
> > >Well big mouth, how about volunteering to take 100 shots of the MMR
> > >vaccine (immunization shot against measles, mumps, and rubella) all on
> > >the same day.  If you are capable of posting on these newsgroups
> > >afterwards then I will concede that you are indeed right.
>
> > John,stop be silly. No one takes 100 shots of MMR. No one but an
> > idiot would suggest such a thing.
>
> > You need to understand, The courts finding was Wakefield falsified
> > information. HE made stuff up. HE lied and was caught.
>
> > --
> > Bob Officer
> > I used to wonder just what a "calcium deficient idiot" was, and now I know
> > "I don't need to know the breakdown chains to know when
> >  I am calcium deficient idiot."  Carole Hubbard

> > Message-ID: <5Mfbp.11718$gM3.10...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

>
> Wakefield was vindicated, but the supporters of the drug industry
> can't afford to admit it and so the attacks on Wakefield wil continue
> for a while until the word gets around that he was right.
>
> Chris

An addendum to the above is that one of Wakefield's co-authors
(Walker-Smith) received his medical license back after a UK high court
quashed the decision of the Medical Council to remove it.

"In his decision, Justice Mitting stated that the GMC's finding of
serious professional misconduct "was flawed, in two respects:
inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a
wrong conclusion."
From:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Autism/31590

Over time this may mean that Wakefield will get his license back
also, if the same reasoning was used to damage him, as was used on
Walker-Smith.

The current suit Where Wakefield is suing the British Medical Journal,
Brian Deer (a scandal monger) and another person is continuing with
the journal trying to get out of it by using a gimmick in the law that
tries to stop people suing others just to cause them money and
difficulty.

Chris

[Bob Officer]

The courts in the US will toss the case out. It has already been
decided in a court.

You must not be aware of the laws and treaties between the U.S. and
UK.

[Bob Officer]

Chris, how can you call being caught forging the results of tests,
vindication?

That's right you often change the meaning of words to fit your needs?

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 19, 11:47 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:

> When you counter the proven finding of a court, that Wakefield forged
> the results of test, with a demand that people take irreconcilably
> large/massive doses of vaccine, shows you can't handle loosing an
> argument.

No such thing happened, no matter how many participants in the science
fraud called vaccination, without the gold standard of research to
back up ANY of the fraudulent claims that vaccines are safe and
effective say so.

The Brits railroaded Wakefield, plain and simple.

I do NOT recognize any Kangaroo British court that you Quacks are
obviously so enamored with. Besides, the decision of this so-called
court was recently overturned in reference to Wakefield's co-author.

The American court has yet to rule on Wakefield's lawsuit.

Your lies, word-games, and B/S don't work with me; Buddy!

[dav...@agent.com]

mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>> > dav...@agent.com wrote:
>>
>> >> Before immunization, most people would have a bout with a disease,
>> >> and come out just fine.  A small % would die from the disease, and
>> >> that small % is the group more likely to have Autism, ADHD, Bipolar,
>> >> Obesity, Lupus, etc., which is why the incidences of those defects
>> >> has increased since before immunization.
>>
>> >Do you agree the vaccine for polio helped to prevent millions of
>> >people from developing polio? Have you taken the polio vaccine?
>>
>> If we allow the population to rise to 8 or 9 billion, there will be
>> huge problems.  If we just use birth control to limit population,
>> there will be fewer young workers to support a growing number
>> of elderly/retirees, which isn't sustainable.  We must have
>> death control, too.  We could start by stopping the suppression
>> of influenza, and see how that goes.  You know, stop making
>> flu vaccines and stop killing infected animals.
>
> The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion.

What will the world be like with 8 or 9 billion?

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 20, 11:32 am, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >   The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion.
>
> What will the world be like with 8 or 9 billion?

Duh!

Why don't you go talk to the demographics who believe in big families?

[dav...@agent.com]

"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >   The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion.
>>
>> What will the world be like with 8 or 9 billion?
>

>Why don't you go talk to the demographics who believe in big families?

I'm looking at the big picture, and you're just thinking of yourself!

[dav...@agent.com]

mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion. There aren't any real
>efforts any more to limit it. The old ZPG movement has died out years
>ago, and some areas of humankind think they have to repopulate the
>world only with their own people, so they go at it with a will...:)

Having fewer young workers to support a growing number of
elderly/retired is not sustainable.

> If you want a place to start cutting down on elderly and senior
>citizens, let them do it themselves by choice. Dr. Kevorkian was
>right, that sane folks have a right to decide about ending their own
>life. The laws have changed to allow it in some places now, and will
>probably spread.

They didn't come into the world by choice, did they?
We don't like paying taxes, too, but we still have to do it!

> Stopping making vaccines won't do much to eliminate humans, since

>most vaccines (not all) don't work as well as advertised.

The bugs are mutating all the time, so vaccine makers
always have to play catch up. Let's stop killing infected
animals & see what happens...

[John H. Gohde]

On Apr 20, 2:15 pm, dav...@agent.com wrote:

I hate those who are " looking at the big picture" because they are
just clueless fools who ALWAYS think that hey are better than me. :(

Heaven help us because YOU certainly are NEVER going to do anything
remotely helpful and constructive.

["pill popper"]

> I'm looking at the big picture, and you're just thinking of yourself!

"I hate those who are " looking at the big picture" because they are just
clueless fools who ALWAYS think that hey are better than me. :("

Ah so, now we know.

[dav...@agent.com]

"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> >> mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >   The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion.
>>
>> >> What will the world be like with 8 or 9 billion?
>>
>> >Why don't you go talk to the demographics who believe in big families?
>>
>> I'm looking at the big picture, and you're just thinking of yourself!
>
>I hate those who are " looking at the big picture" because they are
>just clueless fools who ALWAYS think that hey are better than me. :(

Do you thank oil companies, inventors & engineers
every time you gas up your car & drive off in
air-conditioned comfort along paved roads
(instead of having to go by horseback/horse-drawn
carriage, open to the elements, along dirt roads)?
I do.

[carole]

On Apr 19, 5:31 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> > >dav...@agent.com wrote:

> > >> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > >> > "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> >> "pill popper" wrote:
> > >> >>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder?  Why do you have a
> > >> >>> bipolar disorder?  ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your

> lifestyle."
>
> > >> >>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please.  To mention
> > >> >>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> > >> >>> otherwise demonstrated.
>

> > >> >>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem.  Egro, they are the ones

> > >> >>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue.  If they do NOT give a
> > >> >>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>
> > >> >>How much are you paying me?  That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>
> > >> >>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain:  It is ALWAYS going to be
> > >> >>about lifestyle.  Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> > >> >>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
>
> > >> >I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvinced
> > >> >its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
> > >> >changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
> > >> >don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
>
> > >> The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
> > >> When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
>

> > >   Nope.  When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them and they come

> > >back another day to wipe you out.
>
> > Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, Obesity, Lupus, etc. are proliferating.
> > We need to stop immunizing people.
>
> In many cases, diseases and disorders are caused by the genes. For
> example, if everyone of your relatives and ancestors died before the age
> of 60 as a result of heart disease--you will probably also die before the
> age of 60 as a result of heart disease. It's difficult to win a battle
> with your genes. Believe or not--not all diseases are the result of
> immunizing people. I had an aunt that developed Polio which is a terrible
> disease. It affects nerves and can produce permanent muscle weaknesses,
> paralysis and other symptoms. I am very glad that millions of people in
> the world have immunizations to prevent them from getting polio and
> various other terrible diseases such as anthrax and cholera.
>

> I do agree that autism may be caused by the mercury that is still in some
> vaccines.

Sometimes though, when heart disease runs in families it can be
connected to a certain diet which also gets passed down through the
family. If you're brought up on a diet of fried food and not that much
veg for example, it would contribute to heart disease.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Jason]

In article
<bad980a0-72fd-4397...@i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 2:38=A0am, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > dav...@agent.com wrote:
> >
> > >> Before immunization, most people would have a bout with a disease,

> > >> and come out just fine. =A0A small % would die from the disease, and

> > >> that small % is the group more likely to have Autism, ADHD, Bipolar,
> > >> Obesity, Lupus, etc., which is why the incidences of those defects
> > >> has increased since before immunization.
> >
> > >Do you agree the vaccine for polio helped to prevent millions of
> > >people from developing polio? Have you taken the polio vaccine?
> >
> > If we allow the population to rise to 8 or 9 billion, there will be

> > huge problems. =A0If we just use birth control to limit population,

> > there will be fewer young workers to support a growing number

> > of elderly/retirees, which isn't sustainable. =A0We must have
> > death control, too. =A0We could start by stopping the suppression
> > of influenza, and see how that goes. =A0You know, stop making

> > flu vaccines and stop killing infected animals.
>
> The population WILL rise to 8-9 billion. There aren't any real
> efforts any more to limit it. The old ZPG movement has died out years
> ago, and some areas of humankind think they have to repopulate the
> world only with their own people, so they go at it with a will...:)
>
> If you want a place to start cutting down on elderly and senior
> citizens, let them do it themselves by choice. Dr. Kevorkian was
> right, that sane folks have a right to decide about ending their own
> life. The laws have changed to allow it in some places now, and will
> probably spread.
>
> Stopping making vaccines won't do much to eliminate humans, since
> most vaccines (not all) don't work as well as they were advertised to
> do. Check the news on 'outbreaks' of diseases that are being
> vaccinated against. You'll find that many outbreaks have most
> patients up to date on vaccinations. And the normal resistance to Flu
> that humans have works better at avoiding Flu the second time around
> and is far better than a Flu shot, which sometimes leads to injury
> anyway. You're better off keeping your vitamin D3 levels up to avoid
> Flu.
>
> Chris

Some people do believe there is a plan to reduce the population of the
world. The way they may have decided to do it is by the use of genetic.
modified food. It's also called "GMO foods".

I try to avoid eating GMO foods but we can't always trust what the labels
of the food have to say.

Mary and I saw a movie called "Food Inc." and it explained in that movie
the dangers of eating GMO foods. One young lady in that film almost died.
She developed some medical disorder. The doctors had a very difficult time
figuring out what caused that medical disorder to happen. They concluded
that she had developed that disorder as a result of eating GMO foods.

Once everyone in the world is eating lots of GMO foods--the end result
will be that millions of people will die at young ages and as a result
will reduce the population. They may not live long enough to produce any
children--and that is the end goal.

The governments will not make it illegal to sell GMO foods because the
want the poplulation of the world to be reduced.

Jason

[mainframetech]

On Apr 20, 11:32 am, dav...@agent.com wrote:

More crowded? Ever read the results of a few rats that had a
limited amount of food and a cage? Guess what happened as they
generated more rats and there was not more food or space?

Chris


Chris

[mainframetech]

Given the kind of fraud recorded in the news over and over by the
drug industry, the 'gold standard' of research isn't so golden
anymore. Studies can (and have been) subverted to become advertising
for a drug product. A good amount of money can accomplish many things
with studies.
http://www.americanbar.org/newsletter/publications/aba_health_esource_home/Morrissey.html

Chris

[mainframetech]

I look at the oil people liek I would look at a drug dealer that had
gotten me hooked on a drug that was impossible to get off of. I have
hopes for rehab from the alternative energy sources.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 20, 5:42 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <bad980a0-72fd-4397-9a18-e5cea0c8b...@i18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,

Jason,
I just don'r see that happening. GMO foods won't kill enough
people fast enough to accomplish that goal of reducing population.
Now, war is a good possibility...and new vaccines and drugs from
companies that care more for their profits than their customers. As
well there are the nutjobs that get into power and start a genocide
against folks they don't like.

Chris

[Dennis R]

In article <1e8b0264-dc3d-4e23-a7fa-e7b28fb5e8f0@
12g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, mainfr...@yahoo.com says...

Chris:

Did you even read the article? Don't re-write the facts spelled out in
the article you posted.

The original actual paper did not say that the vaccine caused autism.
Wakefield and one other of the 13 authors on the paper were the only
ones to claim in public, beyond the scope of the paper, that the vaccine
caused autism. Walker-Smith and the others carefully refused to do that.
Walker-Smith was cleared because he clearly acted differently than
Wakefield. Your conclusions cannot be supported from the article as it
is written.

Dennis

[Bob Officer]

The Diet can not be passed down that way. Diet is an
enviromental/lifestyle/habit issue. Not genetic.

A genetic predisposition is one which is written into your bodies
Cellular Programming.

--
Bob Officer
I used to wonder just what a "calcium deficient idiot" was, and now I know
"I don't need to know the breakdown chains to know when
I am calcium deficient idiot." Carole Hubbard

Message-ID: <5Mfbp.11718$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

[carole]

On Apr 20, 1:47 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:31:44 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

No, that response of John's is more applicable when mercury was
thought to be the problem with vaccines. Then it was appropriate to
challenge another to take 100 shots as this is the equivalent of what
a baby gets taking into account its size and ability to process it.
Now that it seems its the vaccines themselves that somehow interfere
with the body's own immune system, its not entirely appropriate - but
I don't think you would have known that bob.

>
> When you counter the proven finding of a court, that Wakefield forged
> the results of test, with a demand that people take irreconcilably
> large/massive doses of vaccine, shows you can't handle loosing an
> argument.

How about all those studies that back up Wakefield's findings?
Should be interesting to see how things unfold in the future - maybe
with Wakefield having his license restored?

Now that would be something I'd like to see.

carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

On Apr 19, 11:14 pm, Bob Officer <*@*.*> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 05:07:26 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

> "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >On Apr 18, 8:00 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> >> In article

> >> <612eb7ad-0952-4286-ad56-db5fdbf74...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, "John
>
> >> H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Apr 18, 3:31=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> >> > > In article <ieqto7dcebtmt6ggogrubb1jkpos2od...@4ax.com>, dav...@agent.com=

> >> >  wrote:
> >> > > > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >dav...@agent.com wrote:
> >> > > > >> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:

> >> > > > >> > "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> > > > >> >> "pill popper" wrote:
> >> > > > >> >>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? =A0Why do you =
> >> > have a
> >> > > > >> >>> bipolar disorder? =A0ANSWER: It is always going to be due to you=
> >> > r
> >> > > lifestyle."
>
> >> > > > >> >>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. =A0To ment=
> >> > ion
> >> > > > >> >>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder un=
> >> > less
> >> > > > >> >>> otherwise demonstrated.
>
> >> > > > >> >>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. =A0Egro, they are th=
> >> > e ones
> >> > > > >> >>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. =A0If they do NOT giv=

> >> > e a
> >> > > > >> >>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>

> >> > > > >> >>How much are you paying me? =A0That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>
> >> > > > >> >>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: =A0It is ALWAYS going=
> >> >  to be
> >> > > > >> >>about lifestyle. =A0Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> >> > > > >> >>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
>
> >> > > > >> >I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvin=

> >> > ced
> >> > > > >> >its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
> >> > > > >> >changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
> >> > > > >> >don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
>
> >> > > > >> The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
> >> > > > >> When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
>

> >> > > > > =A0 Nope. =A0When you suppress enemies, you strengthen them and they =

> >> > come
> >> > > > >back another day to wipe you out.
>
> >> > > > Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, Obesity, Lupus, etc. are proliferating.
> >> > > > We need to stop immunizing people.
>
> >> > > In many cases, diseases and disorders are caused by the genes.
>

> >> > News Flash:  Lifestyle, as well as vitamin D, are more than capable of
> >> > turning on and off genes that affect the so called genetic diseases.
>
> >> Believe it or not--you can't turn off genes.
>
> >YOU are the one here who is confused.  Why am I NOT surprised?
>
> >Epigenetics - Lifestyle Trumps Family History
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/c7vc3qv
>
> >Furthermore, research has shown that vitamin D can turn both off on
> >and on genes.  In fact, that is precisely why vitamin D is effective
> >against cancer and a host of other diseases.
>
> >Quite frankly, YOUR quite obvious mental problems are NOT worth me
> >wasting anymore of my precious time on this issue, throwing pearls
> >before swine.
>
> Not very impressive. 99% conjecture and post hoc fallacy. The studies
> he cites are questionable in construction and the structuring of
> analysis on 1st read through.

Classic bob response to any studies that challenge his views.
Where are the studies bob?
Did you actually find and read the studies and why what's wrong with
them.

I didn't see them anywhere obvious.

carole
www.conspiracee.com