Effects of alpha-linolenic acid on inflammation and oxidative stress
in the diabetic rats.
Zhang LH, Zhang W, Wei GH, Yang P, Liu J, Niu XL
Zhongguo Ying Yong Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi
2012 Jan; 28(1):64-7.
To investigate the effects of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) on
inflammation and oxidative stress in the diabetic rats.
An experimental type 2 diabetes mellitus model was induced by feeding
male SD rats with diet of high fat for 4 weeks and then injected them
intraperitoneally with streptozocin (STZ) at 30 mg/kg.
Then the animals were randomely divided into three groups (n = 10):
control group, diabetic group and ALA group. Four weeks later, tumor
necrosis factor (TNF)-a, soluble P-selectin (sP-selectin), soluble
intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (sICAM-1), nitric oxide (NO)
production, malondialdehyde (MDA), superoxide dismutase (SOD) and
catalase (CAT) in the serum were determined.
Inflammatory agents including TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and sICAM-1
increased in diabetic rats to compare with control group.
Treatment with ALA significantly decreased TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and
slCAM-1 to compare with diabetic group. Furthermore, compared with
control group, serum MDA production increased whereas NO production,
SOD and CAT activities decreased in diabetic rats.
Treatment with ALA reduced MDA production, increased NO production,
promoted SOD and CAT activities compared with diabetic group.
These results indicate that diet rich in ALA exerted the anti-
inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects in diabetic rats, which may be
beneficial to the prevention and treatment of diabetes.
Zhongguo ying yong sheng li xue za zhi = Zhongguo yingyong shenglixue
zazhi = Chinese journal of applied physiology [Zhongguo Ying Yong
Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi]
""Fish oils contains two types of omega 3 fatty acids, namely
eicosapentanoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA)."
"This is in contrast to plant sources of omega 3 oils that contain
alpha linolenic acid (ALA).""
You are confused on this. Ala is converted into the forms found in fish oil in our bodies. The problem is that only about 10 percent or so are converted. It is in the form found in fish and our own bodies that are the active agents in such studies as this one.
Effects of alpha-linolenic acid on inflammation and oxidative stress
in the diabetic rats.
Zhang LH, Zhang W, Wei GH, Yang P, Liu J, Niu XL
Zhongguo Ying Yong Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi
2012 Jan; 28(1):64-7.
To investigate the effects of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) on
inflammation and oxidative stress in the diabetic rats.
An experimental type 2 diabetes mellitus model was induced by feeding
male SD rats with diet of high fat for 4 weeks and then injected them
intraperitoneally with streptozocin (STZ) at 30 mg/kg.
Then the animals were randomely divided into three groups (n = 10):
control group, diabetic group and ALA group. Four weeks later, tumor
necrosis factor (TNF)-a, soluble P-selectin (sP-selectin), soluble
intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (sICAM-1), nitric oxide (NO)
production, malondialdehyde (MDA), superoxide dismutase (SOD) and
catalase (CAT) in the serum were determined.
Inflammatory agents including TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and sICAM-1
increased in diabetic rats to compare with control group.
Treatment with ALA significantly decreased TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and
slCAM-1 to compare with diabetic group. Furthermore, compared with
control group, serum MDA production increased whereas NO production,
SOD and CAT activities decreased in diabetic rats.
Treatment with ALA reduced MDA production, increased NO production,
promoted SOD and CAT activities compared with diabetic group.
These results indicate that diet rich in ALA exerted the anti-
inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects in diabetic rats, which may
be
beneficial to the prevention and treatment of diabetes.
Zhongguo ying yong sheng li xue za zhi = Zhongguo yingyong shenglixue
zazhi = Chinese journal of applied physiology [Zhongguo Ying Yong
Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi]
On Apr 18, 5:44 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@rock.com> wrote:
Effects of alpha-linolenic acid on inflammation and oxidative stress
in the diabetic rats. <<
"Subjects with at least the median ALA intake "
"α-linolenic acid [ALA]"
Association between interaction and ratio of ω-3 and ω-6
polyunsaturated fatty acid and the metabolic syndrome in adults.
Nutrition. 2012 Mar 27.
Mirmiran P, Hosseinpour-Niazi S, Naderi Z, Bahadoran Z, Sadeghi M,
Azizi F.
Department of Clinical Nutrition and Dietetics, Faculty of Nutrition
Sciences and Food Technology, National Nutrition and Food Technology
Research Institute, Shahid Beheshti University of Medical Sciences,
Tehran, Iran.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the association of the intakes of ω-3
(including α-linolenic acid [ALA], eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA] plus
docosahexaenoic acid [DHA]) and ω-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids
(PUFAs), the interaction, and the ratio of these PUFAs with the
metabolic syndrome (MetS) in adults.
METHODS: This cross-sectional study was conducted in a random sample
of participants (n = 2451, 19-84 y old) in the Tehran Lipid Glucose
Study. Dietary intake was assessed using a validated semiquantitative
food-frequency questionnaire. Anthropometric characteristics, blood
pressure, and fasting plasma concentrations of glucose and lipids were
measured. The MetS was defined according to the Adult Treatment Panel
III guidelines.
RESULTS: Among the PUFAs, the ALA and ω-6 PUFA intakes were inversely
associated with the MetS. Subjects in the highest quartile of ALA and
ω-6 fatty acid intakes had a 38% (odds ratio 0.62, 95% confidence
interval 0.41-0.95) and a 0.47% (odds ratio 0.53, 95% confidence
interval 0.31-0.89) lower prevalence of MetS, respectively, compared
with those in the lowest quartile. The dietary ratio of ω-6 to ω-3
fatty acids was not associated with the MetS. When the interaction
between ALA and ω-6 fatty acid was assessed, the ALA intake was
associated with a lower prevalence of the MetS, without modification
by the ω-6 PUFA intake. Subjects with at least the median ALA intake
(1084 mg/d) had a lower prevalence of the MetS, irrespective of an ω-6
PUFA intake lower or higher than the median compared with subjects
with intakes below the median for both.
CONCLUSION: The ALA intake was inversely associated with the MetS,
irrespective of the background intake of ω-6 PUFAs, in adults.
> Zhang LH, Zhang W, Wei GH, Yang P, Liu J, Niu XL
> Zhongguo Ying Yong Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi
> 2012 Jan; 28(1):64-7.
> To investigate the effects of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) on
> inflammation and oxidative stress in the diabetic rats.
> An experimental type 2 diabetes mellitus model was induced by feeding
> male SD rats with diet of high fat for 4 weeks and then injected them
> intraperitoneally with streptozocin (STZ) at 30 mg/kg.
> Then the animals were randomely divided into three groups (n = 10):
> control group, diabetic group and ALA group. Four weeks later, tumor
> necrosis factor (TNF)-a, soluble P-selectin (sP-selectin), soluble
> intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (sICAM-1), nitric oxide (NO)
> production, malondialdehyde (MDA), superoxide dismutase (SOD) and
> catalase (CAT) in the serum were determined.
> Inflammatory agents including TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and sICAM-1
> increased in diabetic rats to compare with control group.
> Treatment with ALA significantly decreased TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and
> slCAM-1 to compare with diabetic group. Furthermore, compared with
> control group, serum MDA production increased whereas NO production,
> SOD and CAT activities decreased in diabetic rats.
> Treatment with ALA reduced MDA production, increased NO production,
> promoted SOD and CAT activities compared with diabetic group.
> These results indicate that diet rich in ALA exerted the anti-
> inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects in diabetic rats, which may be
> beneficial to the prevention and treatment of diabetes.
> Zhongguo ying yong sheng li xue za zhi = Zhongguo yingyong shenglixue
> zazhi = Chinese journal of applied physiology [Zhongguo Ying Yong
> Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi]
> On Apr 18, 5:44 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@rock.com> wrote:
> Effects of alpha-linolenic acid on inflammation and oxidative stress
> in the diabetic rats. <<
> "Subjects with at least the median ALA intake "
> "α-linolenic acid [ALA]"
> Association between interaction and ratio of ω-3 and ω-6
> polyunsaturated fatty acid and the metabolic syndrome in adults.
> Nutrition. 2012 Mar 27.
> Mirmiran P, Hosseinpour-Niazi S, Naderi Z, Bahadoran Z, Sadeghi M,
> Azizi F.
> Department of Clinical Nutrition and Dietetics, Faculty of Nutrition
> Sciences and Food Technology, National Nutrition and Food Technology
> Research Institute, Shahid Beheshti University of Medical Sciences,
> Tehran, Iran.
> Abstract
> OBJECTIVE: To investigate the association of the intakes of ω-3
> (including α-linolenic acid [ALA], eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA] plus
> docosahexaenoic acid [DHA]) and ω-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids
> (PUFAs), the interaction, and the ratio of these PUFAs with the
> metabolic syndrome (MetS) in adults.
> METHODS: This cross-sectional study was conducted in a random sample
> of participants (n = 2451, 19-84 y old) in the Tehran Lipid Glucose
> Study. Dietary intake was assessed using a validated semiquantitative
> food-frequency questionnaire. Anthropometric characteristics, blood
> pressure, and fasting plasma concentrations of glucose and lipids were
> measured. The MetS was defined according to the Adult Treatment Panel
> III guidelines.
> RESULTS: Among the PUFAs, the ALA and ω-6 PUFA intakes were inversely
> associated with the MetS. Subjects in the highest quartile of ALA and
> ω-6 fatty acid intakes had a 38% (odds ratio 0.62, 95% confidence
> interval 0.41-0.95) and a 0.47% (odds ratio 0.53, 95% confidence
> interval 0.31-0.89) lower prevalence of MetS, respectively, compared
> with those in the lowest quartile. The dietary ratio of ω-6 to ω-3
> fatty acids was not associated with the MetS. When the interaction
> between ALA and ω-6 fatty acid was assessed, the ALA intake was
> associated with a lower prevalence of the MetS, without modification
> by the ω-6 PUFA intake. Subjects with at least the median ALA intake
> (1084 mg/d) had a lower prevalence of the MetS, irrespective of an ω-6
> PUFA intake lower or higher than the median compared with subjects
> with intakes below the median for both.
> CONCLUSION: The ALA intake was inversely associated with the MetS,
> irrespective of the background intake of ω-6 PUFAs, in adults.
> > Zhang LH, Zhang W, Wei GH, Yang P, Liu J, Niu XL
> > Zhongguo Ying Yong Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi
> > 2012 Jan; 28(1):64-7.
> > To investigate the effects of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) on
> > inflammation and oxidative stress in the diabetic rats.
> > An experimental type 2 diabetes mellitus model was induced by feeding
> > male SD rats with diet of high fat for 4 weeks and then injected them
> > intraperitoneally with streptozocin (STZ) at 30 mg/kg.
> > Then the animals were randomely divided into three groups (n = 10):
> > control group, diabetic group and ALA group. Four weeks later, tumor
> > necrosis factor (TNF)-a, soluble P-selectin (sP-selectin), soluble
> > intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (sICAM-1), nitric oxide (NO)
> > production, malondialdehyde (MDA), superoxide dismutase (SOD) and
> > catalase (CAT) in the serum were determined.
> > Inflammatory agents including TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and sICAM-1
> > increased in diabetic rats to compare with control group.
> > Treatment with ALA significantly decreased TNF-alpha, sP-selectin and
> > slCAM-1 to compare with diabetic group. Furthermore, compared with
> > control group, serum MDA production increased whereas NO production,
> > SOD and CAT activities decreased in diabetic rats.
> > Treatment with ALA reduced MDA production, increased NO production,
> > promoted SOD and CAT activities compared with diabetic group.
> > These results indicate that diet rich in ALA exerted the anti-
> > inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects in diabetic rats, which may be
> > beneficial to the prevention and treatment of diabetes.
> > Zhongguo ying yong sheng li xue za zhi = Zhongguo yingyong shenglixue
> > zazhi = Chinese journal of applied physiology [Zhongguo Ying Yong
> > Sheng Li Xue Za Zhi]
Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for most
"chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the 1940s,
though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to make
precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham <monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for most
> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the 1940s,
> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to make
> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
conventional.
Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
omega 6
FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
seeds,
soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
7 miles run today and I will not be sore
tommorrow............................Trig
> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for most
>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the 1940s,
>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to make
>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> conventional.
> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> omega 6
> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> seeds,
> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> tommorrow............................Trig
So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
It's not so much the doctors or studies that suggest it, but the
possibility that dropping cholesterol, which is used by the body to
repair and maintain communication in the nervous system, might be
doing harm to that system.
> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> > On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for most
> >> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the 1940s,
> >> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to make
> >> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> > my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> > conventional.
> > Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> > omega 6
> > FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> > Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> > seeds,
> > soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> > 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> > tommorrow............................Trig
> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
understood if one reads the research.
Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
old guys.
I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
providers
"knows".....................................................Trig
> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for most
>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the 1940s,
>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to make
>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
>>> conventional.
>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
>>> omega 6
>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
>>> seeds,
>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
>>> tommorrow............................Trig
>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> understood if one reads the research.
> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> old guys.
> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> providers
> "knows".....................................................Trig
Thanks for your reply.
That sounds very interesting.
I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
I used to run quite a bit when I was younger, but gave it
up as life's larger demands got in the way. Now I walk
about 2 miles almost daily, swim 30 min once a week, and
do some yoga for flexibility. I'm looking to get into biking
this summer, but I'm still hunting for a decent bike.
The Schwinn I got as a gift over a decade ago is a real dog.
> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for >>>>> most
>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the >>>>> 1940s,
>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to >>>>> make
>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
>>>> conventional.
>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
>>>> omega 6
>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
>>>> seeds,
>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
>> understood if one reads the research.
>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
>> old guys.
>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
>> providers
>> "knows".....................................................Trig
> Thanks for your reply.
> That sounds very interesting.
> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80% restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100% restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> > On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> >> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> >>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> >>>>> most
> >>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> >>>>> 1940s,
> >>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> >>>>> make
> >>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> >>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> >>>> conventional.
> >>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> >>>> omega 6
> >>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> >>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> >>>> seeds,
> >>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> >>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> >>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> >>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> >> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> >> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> >> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> >> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> >> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> >> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> >> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> >> understood if one reads the research.
> >> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> >> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> >> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> >> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> >> old guys.
> >> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> >> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> >> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> >> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> >> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> >> providers
> >> "knows".....................................................Trig
> > Thanks for your reply.
> > That sounds very interesting.
> > I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
and hoof broth to help.
<trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
> > > On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> > >> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> > >>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> > >>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> > >>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> > >>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> > >>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> > >>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> > >>>>> most
> > >>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> > >>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> > >>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> > >>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> > >>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> > >>>>> 1940s,
> > >>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> > >>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> > >>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> > >>>>> make
> > >>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> > >>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> > >>>> conventional.
> > >>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> > >>>> omega 6
> > >>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> > >>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> > >>>> seeds,
> > >>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> > >>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> > >>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> > >>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> > >> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> > >> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> > >> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> > >> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> > >> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> > >> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> > >> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> > >> understood if one reads the research.
> > >> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> > >> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> > >> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> > >> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> > >> old guys.
> > >> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> > >> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> > >> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> > >> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> > >> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> > >> providers
> > >> "knows".....................................................Trig
> > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > That sounds very interesting.
> > > I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> > This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> > rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> > told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> > recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> > restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> > I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> > list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> > nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> > started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> > made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> > restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> > Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> > possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> > wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
> and hoof broth to help.
> Trig
I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
>>>>>>>> 1940s,
>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
>>>>>>> conventional.
>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
>>>>>>> omega 6
>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
>>>>>>> seeds,
>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
>>>>> old guys.
>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
>>>>> providers
>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>> That sounds very interesting.
>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
>> and hoof broth to help.
>> Trig
> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
What exercise do you find causes head/brain injuries?
> > On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> > <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
> >>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> >>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> >>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> >>>>>>>> 1940s,
> >>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> >>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> >>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> >>>>>>> conventional.
> >>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> >>>>>>> omega 6
> >>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> >>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> >>>>>>> seeds,
> >>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> >>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> >>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> >>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> >>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> >>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> >>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> >>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> >>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> >>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> >>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> >>>>> understood if one reads the research.
> >>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> >>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> >>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> >>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> >>>>> old guys.
> >>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> >>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> >>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> >>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> >>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> >>>>> providers
> >>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
> >>>> Thanks for your reply.
> >>>> That sounds very interesting.
> >>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> >>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> >>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> >>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> >>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> >>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> >>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> >>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> >>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> >>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> >>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> >>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> >>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> >>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> >>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> >> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
> >> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
> >> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
> >> and hoof broth to help.
> >> Trig
> > I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
> > Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
> > accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
> > Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
> > joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
???
Try reading the above comments.
I happen to belong to a bare-bones health club because I think
exercise is extremely important, or let me put it this way. Exercise
is one of the few things that anyone can do to guarantee a high
quality of life.
My health club is bare-bones becuase just about the only thing you can
do there is work your butt off, besides yacking your mouth.
> What exercise do you find causes head/brain injuries?
Boxing, Pro Wrestling, Caged Strongest Man wins free for all fight
outs, and Pro American style foot ball,
> On Apr 25, 10:15 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>> On 4/25/2012 7:21 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
>>> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
>>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>>>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>>>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>>>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>>>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>>>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>>>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>>>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>>>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
>>>>>>>>>> 1940s,
>>>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>>>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>>>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
>>>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
>>>>>>>>> conventional.
>>>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
>>>>>>>>> omega 6
>>>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
>>>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
>>>>>>>>> seeds,
>>>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
>>>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
>>>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
>>>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
>>>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
>>>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
>>>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
>>>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
>>>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
>>>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
>>>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
>>>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
>>>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
>>>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
>>>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
>>>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
>>>>>>> old guys.
>>>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
>>>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
>>>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
>>>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
>>>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
>>>>>>> providers
>>>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
>>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>>>> That sounds very interesting.
>>>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
>>>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
>>>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
>>>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
>>>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
>>>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
>>>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
>>>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
>>>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
>>>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
>>>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
>>>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
>>>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
>>>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
>>>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
>>>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
>>>> and hoof broth to help.
>>>> Trig
>>> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
>>> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
>>> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
>>> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
>>> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
>> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
> ???
> Try reading the above comments.
I read them and re-read them.
Didn't find your explicit answers to my questions.
> I happen to belong to a bare-bones health club because I think
> exercise is extremely important, or let me put it this way. Exercise
> is one of the few things that anyone can do to guarantee a high
> quality of life.
Good for you.
I don't belong to a health club. I am my own health club.
I pay as I go to use a swimming pool at a local community college.
I own several pairs of walking shoes. I put on a pair and head out the
door almost daily. Also carry a walking stick to ward off any unleashed
dogs.
I have a 10 speed Schwinn that I ride through the neighborhood in good
weather.
I have some weights and stretch ropes in my basement that I use for
various exercises.
> My health club is bare-bones becuase just about the only thing you
> can do there is work your butt off, besides yacking your mouth.
I work my butt off too. By the way, how do you get to your health club?
What's the carbon footprint of your transportation to get there?
Try to be honest.
>> What exercise do you find causes head/brain injuries?
> Boxing, Pro Wrestling, Caged Strongest Man wins free for all fight
> outs, and Pro American style foot ball,
Boxing can qualify as exercise. Those who train alone with a heavy bag,
speed bag, and a jump road risk no head injury. Those who spar with
a partner wear protective head gear and rarely, if ever, receive
hard blows to the head. I knew a guy who trained that way, including a
regular sparring match. But he never boxed in either an amateur or
professional bout. He did it because he loved it as exercise.
The rest of your examples don't qualify as ordinary exercise. They're
entertainment professions.
> > On Apr 25, 10:15 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >> On 4/25/2012 7:21 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
> >>> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> >>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
> >>>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >>>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >>>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >>>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >>>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> >>>>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >>>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >>>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >>>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >>>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> >>>>>>>>>> 1940s,
> >>>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >>>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >>>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> >>>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> >>>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> >>>>>>>>> conventional.
> >>>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> >>>>>>>>> omega 6
> >>>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> >>>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> >>>>>>>>> seeds,
> >>>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> >>>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> >>>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> >>>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> >>>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> >>>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> >>>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> >>>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> >>>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> >>>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> >>>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> >>>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
> >>>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> >>>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> >>>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> >>>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> >>>>>>> old guys.
> >>>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> >>>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> >>>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> >>>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> >>>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> >>>>>>> providers
> >>>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
> >>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
> >>>>>> That sounds very interesting.
> >>>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> >>>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> >>>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> >>>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> >>>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> >>>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> >>>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> >>>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> >>>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> >>>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> >>>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> >>>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> >>>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> >>>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> >>>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> >>>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
> >>>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
> >>>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
> >>>> and hoof broth to help.
> >>>> Trig
> >>> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
> >>> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
> >>> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
> >>> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
> >>> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
> >> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
> > ???
> > Try reading the above comments.
> I read them and re-read them.
> Didn't find your explicit answers to my questions.
You have my condolences.
As far as I am concerned, the comments about MSM more than answers
your questions.
You are NOT paying be jack to be more explicit than that. In this
life, you get exactly what you deserve. :)
Have a nice life. I definitely got better ways to enjoy my life. :)
> On Apr 25, 1:54 pm, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>> On 4/25/2012 11:25 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
>>> On Apr 25, 10:15 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>>>> On 4/25/2012 7:21 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
>>>>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
>>>>>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
>>>>>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
>>>>>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
>>>>>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
>>>>>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1940s,
>>>>>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
>>>>>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
>>>>>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
>>>>>>>>>>> conventional.
>>>>>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
>>>>>>>>>>> omega 6
>>>>>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
>>>>>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
>>>>>>>>>>> seeds,
>>>>>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
>>>>>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
>>>>>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
>>>>>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
>>>>>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
>>>>>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
>>>>>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
>>>>>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
>>>>>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
>>>>>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
>>>>>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
>>>>>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
>>>>>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
>>>>>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
>>>>>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
>>>>>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
>>>>>>>>> old guys.
>>>>>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
>>>>>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
>>>>>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
>>>>>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
>>>>>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
>>>>>>>>> providers
>>>>>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>>>>>> That sounds very interesting.
>>>>>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
>>>>>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
>>>>>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
>>>>>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
>>>>>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
>>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
>>>>>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
>>>>>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
>>>>>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
>>>>>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
>>>>>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
>>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
>>>>>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
>>>>>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
>>>>>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
>>>>>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
>>>>>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
>>>>>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
>>>>>> and hoof broth to help.
>>>>>> Trig
>>>>> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
>>>>> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
>>>>> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
>>>>> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
>>>>> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
>>>> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
>>> ???
>>> Try reading the above comments.
>> I read them and re-read them.
>> Didn't find your explicit answers to my questions.
> You have my condolences.
> As far as I am concerned, the comments about MSM more than answers
> your questions.
I didn't ask you about MSM.
I asked about exercises that abuse the body.
Your answer was wholly inadequate.
> You are NOT paying be jack to be more explicit than that. In this
> life, you get exactly what you deserve. :)
No one should pay you,
You can't answer a simple question on exercise.
> Have a nice life. I definitely got better ways to enjoy my life.
I agree.
One of those ways would be a course in remedial reading comprehension.
Another would be a course in exercise physiology.
When you get done with those two assignments, come back and maybe
you'll be allowed to sit for re-exam.
> > On Apr 25, 1:54 pm, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >> On 4/25/2012 11:25 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
> >>> On Apr 25, 10:15 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>> On 4/25/2012 7:21 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
> >>>>> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> >>>>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >>>>>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >>>>>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1940s,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> >>>>>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> >>>>>>>>>>> conventional.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> >>>>>>>>>>> omega 6
> >>>>>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> >>>>>>>>>>> seeds,
> >>>>>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> >>>>>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> >>>>>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> >>>>>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> >>>>>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> >>>>>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> >>>>>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> >>>>>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> >>>>>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> >>>>>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> >>>>>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> >>>>>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
> >>>>>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> >>>>>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> >>>>>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> >>>>>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> >>>>>>>>> old guys.
> >>>>>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> >>>>>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> >>>>>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> >>>>>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> >>>>>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> >>>>>>>>> providers
> >>>>>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
> >>>>>>>> That sounds very interesting.
> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> >>>>>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> >>>>>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> >>>>>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> >>>>>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> >>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> >>>>>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> >>>>>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> >>>>>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> >>>>>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> >>>>>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> >>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> >>>>>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> >>>>>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> >>>>>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> >>>>>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
> >>>>>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
> >>>>>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
> >>>>>> and hoof broth to help.
> >>>>>> Trig
> >>>>> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
> >>>>> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
> >>>>> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
> >>>>> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
> >>>>> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
> >>>> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
> >>> ???
> >>> Try reading the above comments.
> >> I read them and re-read them.
> >> Didn't find your explicit answers to my questions.
> > You have my condolences.
> > As far as I am concerned, the comments about MSM more than answers
> > your questions.
> I didn't ask you about MSM.
> I asked about exercises that abuse the body.
> Your answer was wholly inadequate.
> > You are NOT paying be jack to be more explicit than that. In this
> > life, you get exactly what you deserve. :)
> No one should pay you,
> You can't answer a simple question on exercise.
> > Have a nice life. I definitely got better ways to enjoy my life.
> I agree.
> One of those ways would be a course in remedial reading comprehension.
> Another would be a course in exercise physiology.
> When you get done with those two assignments, come back and maybe
> you'll be allowed to sit for re-exam.
> Later . . .
I can smell arses like you a mile away. Go waste somebodies else's
time. I have better things to do than play games with some stupid
academic snob.
> > On Apr 25, 1:54 pm, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >> On 4/25/2012 11:25 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
> >>> On Apr 25, 10:15 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>> On 4/25/2012 7:21 AM, John H. Gohde wrote:
> >>>>> On Apr 25, 3:04 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> >>>>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Apr 24, 1:54 pm, Just Wondering<fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:00 PM, Ben Stidd wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 11:48 AM, None Given wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 3:27 am, Ben Stidd<*@*.~> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2012 2:31 AM, trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 11:22 pm, montygraham<monty1...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, at least some omega 3 act as "anti-essential fatty acids."
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that only arachidonic acid (AA) and the Mead acid (MA)can be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> used for vital functions (like blood clotting). The problem with AA
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is that is so reactive that it has what are often called "pro-
> >>>>>>>>>>>> inflammatory" processes, and so is likely largely responsible for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "chronic disease," especially in those who are "middle aged" or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> younger. An antioxidant-rich diet can help prevent AA from becoming
> >>>>>>>>>>>> too dangerous but MA appears optimal, with no threat to health.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Experiments on this subject have often depleted enough of both AA and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> MA so that there may be a deficiency problem. At M.I.T. in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1940s,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> though, it was found that vitamin deficiencies could also be an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> issue. I think Taka found evidence a few years back that these are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> related phenomena. That is, certain vitamins may be necessary to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>> precursor fatty acids into AA or MA.
> >>>>>>>>>>> my take on fat is somewhere between your views (Ray Peat) and the
> >>>>>>>>>>> conventional.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fish oil can help but dropping the omega 6 FA helps as well. Some
> >>>>>>>>>>> omega 6
> >>>>>>>>>>> FA source seem more benign to benefical as compared to others.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Walnuts and unheated tree nuts, yes good and sesame seeds, sunflower
> >>>>>>>>>>> seeds,
> >>>>>>>>>>> soy oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, no.
> >>>>>>>>>>> 7 miles run today and I will not be sore
> >>>>>>>>>>> tommorrow............................Trig
> >>>>>>>>>> So what will you do or ingest to minimize the soreness?
> >>>>>>>>> I am really fit these days so its nothing I don't every day.
> >>>>>>>>> Start with methylsulfonylmethane in gram doses which
> >>>>>>>>> is pretty amazing, then I do a laundry list of stuff worth
> >>>>>>>>> of any denizen of sci.life-extension group. Anyway
> >>>>>>>>> the MSM has other benefical side effects unlike the
> >>>>>>>>> the conventional stuff which will ruin the stomach
> >>>>>>>>> and even ruin the joints. Mechanisms now being
> >>>>>>>>> understood if one reads the research.
> >>>>>>>>> Plus I make my own broth on beef hooves for vegetable soups.
> >>>>>>>>> 7 miles at a rate of 7 to 8 minute miles. Shorter runs of
> >>>>>>>>> 3 miles are at time run at faster rates ;-) I am not going
> >>>>>>>>> to bea the golden boy 20 year old but I can out run most
> >>>>>>>>> old guys.
> >>>>>>>>> I am not sore today. I'll lift weights today and dig up some
> >>>>>>>>> of the garden. Big risk is blisters.............lol.
> >>>>>>>>> Don't mock as you are a denizen of MHA. Some of its
> >>>>>>>>> chattering class are already gone (dead or gone quiet).
> >>>>>>>>> There is more on earth than what the conventional medicine
> >>>>>>>>> providers
> >>>>>>>>> "knows".....................................................Trig
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
> >>>>>>>> That sounds very interesting.
> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of MSM. I'll have to check it out.
> >>>>>>> This is only anecdotal, but I am totally sold on MSM. I once had a torn
> >>>>>>> rotator cuff, confirmed by a MRI and a specialist sports doctor. I was
> >>>>>>> told I needed an operation, that it would take nearly a year to fully
> >>>>>>> recuperate from the operation, and that the best I could expect was 80%
> >>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function. A friend then told me about MSM.
> >>>>>>> I researched it on the internet, and discovered that besides a laundry
> >>>>>>> list of claimed benefits (many of which I doubted), that it was about as
> >>>>>>> nontoxic as anything could be. I figured, what do I have to lose?, and
> >>>>>>> started taking about 6 grams a day. Taking MSM was the only change I
> >>>>>>> made. In 8 weeks my rotator cuff was fully healed, with 100%
> >>>>>>> restoration of my shoulder function, and without surgery.
> >>>>>>> Again, given its nontoxicity, if you have a problem that MSM even as a
> >>>>>>> possibility of helping, why not give it a try? At worst, you will have
> >>>>>>> wasted 10 or 20 bucks.
> >>>>>> Pretty much my take. Heck my dose is lower and it really helps.
> >>>>>> I run 20 miles + a week and I credit the MSM plus determination.
> >>>>>> I know a good man with a operated on shoulder, I'll suggest MSM
> >>>>>> and hoof broth to help.
> >>>>>> Trig
> >>>>> I do NOT take MSM personally, but I have suggested it to others.
> >>>>> Of course, I do NOT believe in abusing my body. My body has responded
> >>>>> accordingly with absolutely no joint pain.
> >>>>> Why men go out of their way to abuse their bodies to the point of
> >>>>> joint replacement and head / brain injuries is totally beyond me.
> >>>> At what point do you view exercise becomes abusive to your body?
> >>> ???
> >>> Try reading the above comments.
> >> I read them and re-read them.
> >> Didn't find your explicit answers to my questions.
> > You have my condolences.
> > As far as I am concerned, the comments about MSM more than answers
> > your questions.
> I didn't ask you about MSM.
> I asked about exercises that abuse the body.
> Your answer was wholly inadequate.
> > You are NOT paying be jack to be more explicit than that. In this
> > life, you get exactly what you deserve. :)
> No one should pay you,
> You can't answer a simple question on exercise.
> > Have a nice life. I definitely got better ways to enjoy my life.
> I agree.
> One of those ways would be a course in remedial reading comprehension.
> Another would be a course in exercise physiology.
> When you get done with those two assignments, come back and maybe
> you'll be allowed to sit for re-exam.
> Later . .
This cross posted monster needs to go back to MHA. People are mixing
here
that shouldn't.
Lower impact exercises tend to be safer. Pretty self-evident. Running
style is
important. Running shoes in my experience are not to be trusted.
Simple
running flats and light running shoes seem safer than the so-called
trainers, YMMV. I go further and faster than......................
