I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
that to 5 mg in the next few months,
Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function but his office is closed for an extended period due to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
family doctor.
My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
My main question is what lifestyle changes can I make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
lots of water, which I always have done while on
lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
my diet pop intake.
Also are there any nutritional supplements that might improve kidney function?
Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
it improves I may come off that waiting list.
David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
> I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
> years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
> Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
> low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
> at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
> 10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
> that to 5 mg in the next few months,
> Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function > but his office is closed for an extended period due > to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
> family doctor.
> My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
> 144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
> worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
> My main question is what lifestyle changes can I > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
> lots of water, which I always have done while on
> lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
> I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
> which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
> affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
> my diet pop intake.
> Also are there any nutritional supplements that might > improve kidney function?
> Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
> when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
> list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
> how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
> it improves I may come off that waiting list.
Buy this book and follow the advice that is in the book:
COPING WITH KIDNEY DISEASE by Mackenzie Walser, M.D.
Also, there are some other newer medications that are now used to treat
bipolar disorder. Ask your doctor to take you off of Lithium and prescribe
one or more of those newer medications. If he does not know about those
newer medications, ask him or her to prescribe valproic acid. You may want
to google "valproic acid" to find out more about it. If you keep taking
Lithium--you will develop total kidney failure.
>I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
>years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
>Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
>low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
>at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
>10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
>that to 5 mg in the next few months,
>Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function >but his office is closed for an extended period due >to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
>family doctor.
>My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
>144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
>worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
>My main question is what lifestyle changes can I >make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
>have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
>such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
>lots of water, which I always have done while on
>lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
>I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
>which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
>affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
>my diet pop intake.
>Also are there any nutritional supplements that might >improve kidney function?
>Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
>when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
>list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
>how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
>it improves I may come off that waiting list.
Hello David welcome aboard.
First and foremost you/we need to eliminate ALL the junk in our
diet/lives if we are to stand any chance, otherwise doing anything is
pointless. No point taking supplements etc unless we have sorted out
the basics first. Though you're bound to find the odd smart arse who
drinks and smokes and has a rock and roll lifestyle and how it has
never affected them!!
Anything *diet* simply means the fat and sugar has been replaced with
something toxic, so avoid it all. Don't drink *too* much water,
because that is obviously unhealthy too (around 2ltrs a day is
considered fine)
Lose the milk/meat in your diet as much as possible, and concentrate
on fruit and veg. And dont forget the exercise. Sitting on your butt
all day is terrible for the body. So try to keep moving, and walk at
least 30 mins a day if possible.
Once you have a good foundation, then you can start working at it
properly. But we're all struggling here, apart from one or two smug
mugs, and so you will have to try various things and see what suits
you.
One thing is FOR SURE you need to do something NOW to prevent further
kidney damage, and should have considered alternatives long ago.
Doesn't sound like your current medical experts are too bright either,
if monitoring your decline in kidney function is all he is doing!!
> I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
> years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
> Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
> low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
> at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
> 10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
> that to 5 mg in the next few months,
> Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function
> but his office is closed for an extended period due
> to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
> family doctor.
> My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
> 144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
> worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
> My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
> lots of water, which I always have done while on
> lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
> I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
> which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
> affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
> my diet pop intake.
> Also are there any nutritional supplements that might
> improve kidney function?
> Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
> when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
> list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
> how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
> it improves I may come off that waiting list.
David,
Welcome! Come by as often as you like. We're not physicians here,
but we've been through much of the world of the Kidney Disease
sufferers. As mentioned above, read "Coping With Kidney Disease" by
Mackenzie Walser, MD. He worked in kidney research for Johns Hopkins
for 45 years. The book can be found on amazon.com and if you look at
the 'used' section, they have it there for $7.50+ shipping.
The book above recommends a Very Low Protein Diet (VLPD) which
relieves the kidneys of some of their work. When I got on it I gained
7 points on my eGFR almost immediately. The diet can slow and
sometimes stop the progressive deterioration common in CKD. On this
diet you also MUST take an amino acid supplement because you will not
be getting enough nutrition otherwise.
I agree with those above in that you should get rid of all
'garbage' food like diet soda or diet anything (al means ALL), and
avoid 'processed' food as much as possible. Exercise to the degree
you're able will help in any situation. As they say, everything in
moderation.
Chronic Kidney Disease can kill, so you're not entering an
amusement park. It's serious business in avoiding dialysis, which can
be bad for some people. I checked with 2 doctors and the statistics
at various hospitals are true. After going into dialysis, 25% of all
patients die in the first year, so it's something to avoid as long as
possible.
BTW, the VLPD is used as the primary treatment in Europe for over
50% of nephrologists. Here, you're lucky if they've even heard of it
or mention it. I've been on it for 6 years now, and I can swear to it
that it has helped me immensely.
Humans can get used to anything if they have to...:)
Come by anytime and ask about anything you need to know. There
are also some folks here that are on dialysis too, if you need to know
about that area.
> I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
> years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
> Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
> low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
> at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
> 10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
> that to 5 mg in the next few months,
> Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function
> but his office is closed for an extended period due
> to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
> family doctor.
> My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
> 144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
> worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
> My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
> lots of water, which I always have done while on
> lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
> I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
> which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
> affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
> my diet pop intake.
> Also are there any nutritional supplements that might
> improve kidney function?
> Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
> when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
> list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
> how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
> it improves I may come off that waiting list.
<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 13, 9:10 pm, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
>> I have been on lithium for bipolar disorder for over twenty
>> years now and my kidney function is starting to be affected.
>> Thus my psychiatrist and I have decreased the lithium as
>> low as we can, going to 900 mg lithium carbonate/day all
>> at bedtime, for a lithium level of 0.7. I also take
>> 10 mg olanzapine/day at bedtime but am hoping to reduce
>> that to 5 mg in the next few months,
>> Ordinarily my psychiatrist monitors my kidney function
>> but his office is closed for an extended period due
>> to illness so I am temporarily being monitored by my
>> family doctor.
>> My latest blood work produced a creatinine level of
>> 144 (and my psychiatrist had said he wouldn't be
>> worried unless it was above 150) and a eGFR of 44.
>> My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
>> make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
>> have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
>> such as Depakote? For now I am trying to drink
>> lots of water, which I always have done while on
>> lithium, and moderate my caffeine and alcohol intake.
>> I also have noted the 2009 study of over 3000 nurses
>> which indicated that diet pop intake could adversely
>> affect kidney function, and am planning to eliminate
>> my diet pop intake.
>> Also are there any nutritional supplements that might
>> improve kidney function?
>> Of course I will discuss this with my family doctor
>> when I see her on May 28. I am also on the waiting
>> list to see a kidney specialist but that depends on
>> how my blood work goes in the next few months; if
>> it improves I may come off that waiting list.
It seems we're dumb n dumber when it comes to listening to good
advice. I was watching TV last night about an old woman who is a very
much anti smoking and discussing why we should ban cigarette
advertising. Smoked most of her life. Now has cancer and is STILL
smoking!!!
Same with many fat people. Desperate to lose weight, but wont give up
eating to excess which is what's killing them!!
Surely it has to be something beyond willpower and apathy?
I suspect nothing a good kick up the backside cant cure.
On Apr 14, 9:24 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> On 4/13/2012 9:10 PM, David Dalton wrote:
> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> > such as Depakote?
> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
backwards, Susan. :(
All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.
Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
about ten years ago.
Right off the top of my head, he should he should be eating less
protein or meat because a high protein diet puts a stress on kidney
function.
Now, all that the guy has to do is click on the above hyperlinks, and
follow through a couple dozen of the links. But, is he intelligent
enough to do that?
>> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
>> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
>> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
>> > such as Depakote?
>> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
>> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
>> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
>IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
>backwards, Susan. :(
He doesn't have kidney disease. The lithium is damaging his kidneys
and so a different course is required than for us who do have kidney
disease. Anything that lessens the load on his kidneys will be of
help, but I'm not sure if anything else will. He needs to get off the
lithium ASAP if he is to save his kidneys. I'm stunned his doctor
would sit there and watch his decline and do nothing. But again if
David feels he cannot/will not give up lithium then he's stuffed.
>All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.
>Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
>that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
>about ten years ago.
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:26:06 -0700 (PDT), "John H. Gohde"
> <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 14, 9:24 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> >> On 4/13/2012 9:10 PM, David Dalton wrote:
> >> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> >> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> >> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> >> > such as Depakote?
> >> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
> >> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
> >> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
> >IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
> >backwards, Susan. :(
> He doesn't have kidney disease. The lithium is damaging his kidneys
> and so a different course is required than for us who do have kidney
> disease. Anything that lessens the load on his kidneys will be of
> help, but I'm not sure if anything else will. He needs to get off the
> lithium ASAP if he is to save his kidneys. I'm stunned his doctor
> would sit there and watch his decline and do nothing. But again if
> David feels he cannot/will not give up lithium then he's stuffed.
> >Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
> >that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
> >about ten years ago.
> >> > My main question is what lifestyle changes can I
> >> > make to improve my kidney function so that I don't
> >> > have to switch from lithium to another mood stabilizer
> >> > such as Depakote?
> >> I don't know what's driving your kidney damage, but for me, eating low
> >> carb reversed a decade long case of kidney damage, and it's kept
> >> improving the longer I've limited foods that convert to glucose.
> >IMHO, you got the lifestyle advice for Kidney Disease exactly
> >backwards, Susan. :(
> He doesn't have kidney disease. The lithium is damaging his kidneys
> and so a different course is required than for us who do have kidney
> disease. Anything that lessens the load on his kidneys will be of
> help, but I'm not sure if anything else will. He needs to get off the
> lithium ASAP if he is to save his kidneys. I'm stunned his doctor
> would sit there and watch his decline and do nothing. But again if
> David feels he cannot/will not give up lithium then he's stuffed.
> >All the guy has to do is google kidney disease diets.
> >Then the guy should google kidney disease treatments. Better than
> >that the dude should use my custome google search which I created
> >about ten years ago.
If he has an eGFR of 44, he has kidney disease. I'm sure he hasn't
just gotten that reading in the last month or two. That fulfills the
diagnosis for kidney disease. No matter what else may be going on.
"Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless otherwise demonstrated.
> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> otherwise demonstrated.
THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
"pill popper" wrote:
> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
web page.
In article <dalton-E07097.00522517042...@news.eternal-september.org>,
David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
> In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
> "pill popper" wrote:
> > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
> Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> web page.
Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
have bipolar disorder?
Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <dalton-E07097.00522517042...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
> > In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
> > "pill popper" wrote:
> > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a > > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your > > > lifestyle."
> > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> > web page.
> Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
> that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
> in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
> have bipolar disorder?
Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
with other people offline.
> > > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a > > > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your > > > > lifestyle."
> > > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> > > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> > > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> > > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> > > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> > > web page.
> > Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
> > that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
> > in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
> > have bipolar disorder?
> Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
> brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
> does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
> problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
> going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
> I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
> valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
> here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
> But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
> psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
> and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
> doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
> I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
> with other people offline.
You need to get off lithium but should probably go off of his slowly by
taking a slighly lower dose each week. It may take as long as two months
to totally go off of it. They do that when they take people off of
Prednisone. They call it tapering off.
You may want to google these drug names. They are now being used to treat
bipolar disorder:
<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 16, 3:51 pm, "pill popper" wrote:
>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
>> bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
>> otherwise demonstrated.
>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
>about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvinced
its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
>> In article <dalton-E07097.00522517042...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
>> > In article <4f8c784e$0$2697$1c468...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
>> > "pill popper" wrote:
>> > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a >> > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your >> > > lifestyle."
>> > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
>> > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
>> > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
>> > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
>> > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
>> > web page.
>> Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
>> that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
>> in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
>> have bipolar disorder?
>Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
>brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
>does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
>problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
>going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
>I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
>valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
>here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
>But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
>psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
>and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
>doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
>I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
>with other people offline.
What you should also remember is once you were hooked on lithium it is
gonna take a lot to get you off, and that means hard work on your part
for a good few weeks probably. Most people give up a change in
medications in a few days, better the devil they know etc...but one
thing 100% sure is you have to get OFF lithium.
> > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
> > The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
> > epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> > otherwise demonstrated.
> THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
> to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
> hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
> How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
> Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
> about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
John,
It's not true that the person with a problem owns the problem every
time. Sometimes there are people with a problem that make further
problems for others without the others asking for it. Such as your
style of expression.
We can also look at the California outbreak of Pertussis, where
over 80% of the victims were vaccinated and were up to date with their
shots. The parents had done the generally accepted 'right thing' and
gotten the kids vaccinated, believing the general government and drug
industry story that vaccination confers immunity. They looked after
their kids and the kids got B. Pertussis. How did their lifestyle
cause their kids to be patients?
There was a time when schizophrenia was thought universally to be a
mental problem that built up in a person until it became obvious to
onlookers. Then it was thought that it was a genetic disease, and
finally, they found that it was an imbalance in cetain compounds in
the body and could be mostly cured by taking certain compounds
regularly. Of course, there will still be stupid fokks that wil think
the disease is caused by problems building up or by genetics, and they
will no doubt make other people's lives miserable with their little
wrong-headed conclusions.
The general rule for discussion here is that we discuss the topic
and not the poster. Personal insults do no one any good.
> >> > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> >> > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your
> >> > > lifestyle."
> >> > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> >> > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> >> > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> >> > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> >> > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> >> > web page.
> >> Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
> >> that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
> >> in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
> >> have bipolar disorder?
> >Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
> >brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
> >does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
> >problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
> >going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
> >I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
> >valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
> >here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
> >But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
> >psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
> >and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
> >doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
> >I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
> >with other people offline.
> What you should also remember is once you were hooked on lithium it is
> gonna take a lot to get you off, and that means hard work on your part
> for a good few weeks probably. Most people give up a change in
> medications in a few days, better the devil they know etc...but one
> thing 100% sure is you have to get OFF lithium.
> > > > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> > > > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your
> > > > > lifestyle."
> > > > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> > > > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> > > > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> > > > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> > > > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> > > > web page.
> > > Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
> > > that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
> > > in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
> > > have bipolar disorder?
> > Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
> > brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
> > does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
> > problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
> > going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
> > I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
> > valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
> > here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
> > But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
> > psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
> > and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
> > doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
> > I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
> > with other people offline.
> You need to get off lithium but should probably go off of his slowly by
> taking a slighly lower dose each week. It may take as long as two months
> to totally go off of it. They do that when they take people off of
> Prednisone. They call it tapering off.
> You may want to google these drug names. They are now being used to treat
> bipolar disorder:
> Some of them have some bad side effects. I copied the above names out of
> my Medical reference book from the section that is about bipolar disorder.
Jason,
I would suggest as you direct people to do this and that with
medications, that you advise them to do it with a physician being
aware of changes being made in medication and treatments.
> On Apr 16, 9:02 pm, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 3:51 pm, "pill popper" wrote:
> > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
> > > The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
> > > epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
> > > otherwise demonstrated.
> > THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
> > to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
> > hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
> > How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
> > Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
> > about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
> > obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
> John,
> It's not true that the person with a problem owns the problem every
> time. Sometimes there are people with a problem that make further
> problems for others without the others asking for it. Such as your
> style of expression.
> We can also look at the California outbreak of Pertussis, where
> over 80% of the victims were vaccinated and were up to date with their
> shots. The parents had done the generally accepted 'right thing' and
> gotten the kids vaccinated, believing the general government and drug
> industry story that vaccination confers immunity. They looked after
> their kids and the kids got B. Pertussis. How did their lifestyle
> cause their kids to be patients?
> There was a time when schizophrenia was thought universally to be a
> mental problem that built up in a person until it became obvious to
> onlookers. Then it was thought that it was a genetic disease, and
> finally, they found that it was an imbalance in cetain compounds in
> the body and could be mostly cured by taking certain compounds
> regularly. Of course, there will still be stupid fokks that wil think
> the disease is caused by problems building up or by genetics, and they
> will no doubt make other people's lives miserable with their little
> wrong-headed conclusions.
> The general rule for discussion here is that we discuss the topic
> and not the poster. Personal insults do no one any good.
> Chris
NEWS FLASH: Sucking down lithium is part of lifestyle.
Suckers are born everyday. Conventional medicine NEVER tells the
patient standing before them that taking THEIR toxic crap indefinitely
will eventually kill them, by any number of ways. NO THANKS, but I
prefer to deal with my problems, the natural way, as well as keep my
kidney in all my other organs in good health for as long as possible.
I can assure you that lithium has NEVER been part of my lifestyle, nor
will any toxic psychotropic medication for some imaginary psych
condition resulting from eating a crappy diet, etc,, etc., etc., is
ever going to be part of my lifestyle.
> > >> > > "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
> > >> > > bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your
> > >> > > lifestyle."
> > >> > Lifestyle contributed to the onset of my bipolar disorder
> > >> > but lifestyle adjustments alone are not going to fix it.
> > >> > I have been on lithium since September 1991 and the one
> > >> > year when I was on no and then low lithium, 1996, was
> > >> > my worst year, as documented in my Salmon on the Thorns
> > >> > web page.
> > >> Does bipolar disorder run in your family? My medical reference book states
> > >> that some researchers has found some evidence indicating that it does run
> > >> in families. In other words, do any of your relatives or ancestors also
> > >> have bipolar disorder?
> > >Yes, my maternal grandmother was bipolar and my older
> > >brother is either bipolar or schizoaffective but he
> > >does not have cycles similar to mine. His kidney
> > >problems resulted in him coming off lithium and
> > >going on double the olanzapine but in my case if
> > >I was to come off lithium I would probably go on
> > >valproic acid (or Depakote), as someone suggested on
> > >here, and stay on the same amount of olanzapine.
> > >But that is complicated a bit by the fact that my
> > >psychiatrist's office is closed due to his illness
> > >and I am being temporarily monitored by my family
> > >doctor. Luckily I am fairly steady these days though
> > >I tend to be more eccentric online than in my dealings
> > >with other people offline.
> > What you should also remember is once you were hooked on lithium it is
> > gonna take a lot to get you off, and that means hard work on your part
> > for a good few weeks probably. Most people give up a change in
> > medications in a few days, better the devil they know etc...but one
> > thing 100% sure is you have to get OFF lithium.
> With a doctor's knowledge, of course.
> Chris
I gave up participating in sci.med.psychobiology a long time ago,
because it is full of very stupid legal drug addicts who have bought
hook line and sinker into the lies of conventional medicine.
sci.med.psychobiology should kindly stay off the fuck off
sci.medicine.nutrition, PLEASE!
Let the dead bury the dead, is what I say. I am too busy enjoying my
life to let a bunch of dumb-asses bum me out with all their stupidity,
whining, and refusal to live in reality.
> On Apr 17, 7:17 am, mainframetech<mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 9:02 pm, "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 16, 3:51 pm, "pill popper" wrote:
>>>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
>>>> bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
>>>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
>>>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
>>>> otherwise demonstrated.
>>> THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
>>> to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
>>> hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>>> How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>>> Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
>>> about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
>>> obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
>> John,
>> It's not true that the person with a problem owns the problem every
>> time. Sometimes there are people with a problem that make further
>> problems for others without the others asking for it. Such as your
>> style of expression.
>> We can also look at the California outbreak of Pertussis, where
>> over 80% of the victims were vaccinated and were up to date with their
>> shots. The parents had done the generally accepted 'right thing' and
>> gotten the kids vaccinated, believing the general government and drug
>> industry story that vaccination confers immunity. They looked after
>> their kids and the kids got B. Pertussis. How did their lifestyle
>> cause their kids to be patients?
>> There was a time when schizophrenia was thought universally to be a
>> mental problem that built up in a person until it became obvious to
>> onlookers. Then it was thought that it was a genetic disease, and
>> finally, they found that it was an imbalance in cetain compounds in
>> the body and could be mostly cured by taking certain compounds
>> regularly. Of course, there will still be stupid fokks that wil think
>> the disease is caused by problems building up or by genetics, and they
>> will no doubt make other people's lives miserable with their little
>> wrong-headed conclusions.
>> The general rule for discussion here is that we discuss the topic
>> and not the poster. Personal insults do no one any good.
>> Chris
> NEWS FLASH: Sucking down lithium is part of lifestyle.
> Suckers are born everyday. Conventional medicine NEVER tells the
> patient standing before them that taking THEIR toxic crap indefinitely
> will eventually kill them, by any number of ways. NO THANKS, but I
> prefer to deal with my problems, the natural way, as well as keep my
> kidney in all my other organs in good health for as long as possible.
> I can assure you that lithium has NEVER been part of my lifestyle, nor
> will any toxic psychotropic medication for some imaginary psych
> condition resulting from eating a crappy diet, etc,, etc., etc., is
> ever going to be part of my lifestyle.
So how do you propose to deal with your bipolar symptoms?
Ice water baths?
Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> "John H. Gohde"<john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "pill popper" wrote:
>>> "Why are you taking lithium for bipolar disorder? Why do you have a
>>> bipolar disorder? ANSWER: It is always going to be due to your lifestyle."
>>> The scientific evidence for this claim if you please. To mention
>>> epigenetic research does not mean it applies in this disorder unless
>>> otherwise demonstrated.
>>THE person with the problem OWNS the problem. Egro, they are the ones
>>to spend THEIR time researching THEIR issue. If they do NOT give a
>>hoot, then that is likewise THEIR problem.
>>How much are you paying me? That is exactly, what I thought!!!!
>>Oh, by the way, for those with half-a-brain: It is ALWAYS going to be
>>about lifestyle. Those who think otherwise are just ignorant,
>>obnoxious, dumb-asses IMHO.
>I dunno sometimes genetics do play a big role. Though I am unconvinced
>its a hurdle that cannot be overcome in many cases with lifestyle
>changes. We can only, and should, do the best for ourselves. If we
>don't, well we cannot cry about it later.
The function of natural enemies is to limit genetic defects.
When we suppress enemies, the defects proliferate.
