saw palmetto and female libido
ch...@nospam.soluna.demon.co.uk
My (female) partner has been taking saw palmetto to try to slow down
hair loss of unknown origin. She's 40 and not menopausal.
She seems to have suffered some loss of libido since she started
taking it - could it be a side effect?
Chris
Bertha Veronneau
eric
<ch...@nospam.soluna.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3846cc0a...@news.demon.co.uk...
Saw palmetto is an anti androgen. Androgens effect libido. It will only help
her hair loss if it is due to DHT binding in the scalp. In this case she
should see a endocrinologist. If the hair loss is patchy I would definately
see a doctor immediately, If not I would see a doctor, possibly a
endocrinologist if nessacary since this is most likely a hormonal problem,
but not nessacarily due to testosterone or DHT.
>
> Chris
Tom Matthews
>
> <ch...@nospam.soluna.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3846cc0a...@news.demon.co.uk...
> > Hi
> >
> > My (female) partner has been taking saw palmetto to try to slow down
> > hair loss of unknown origin. She's 40 and not menopausal.
> >
> > She seems to have suffered some loss of libido since she started
> > taking it - could it be a side effect?
>
> Saw palmetto is an anti androgen.
eric, terms like "anti-androgen" do not help much. They mask correct
information and understanding.
Saw palmetto lows serum DHT (to the small extent it does) buy preventing
its conversion from testosterone and thereby *raising* testosterone.
In addition, saw palmetto has never been proven to help with hairloss,
and it may not, partly because its major effect is to work directly on
the testosterone receptors and 5AR conversion enzyme in protstate cells
themselves.
She would be better to take finasteride for the hair loss, if DHT is the
problem.
However, that is even more likely to reduce libido.
> Androgens effect libido. It will only help
> her hair loss if it is due to DHT binding in the scalp. In this case she
> should see a endocrinologist. If the hair loss is patchy I would definately
> see a doctor immediately, If not I would see a doctor, possibly a
> endocrinologist if nessacary since this is most likely a hormonal problem,
> but not nessacarily due to testosterone or DHT.
This is correct.
Most hair loss in females is not due to DHT.
--Tom
Tom Matthews
The LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION - http://www.lef.org - 800-544-4440
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ch...@nospam.soluna.demon.co.uk
<tom...@internet.look.ca> wrote:
>Saw palmetto lows serum DHT (to the small extent it does) buy preventing
>its conversion from testosterone and thereby *raising* testosterone.
>In addition, saw palmetto has never been proven to help with hairloss,
>and it may not, partly because its major effect is to work directly on
>the testosterone receptors and 5AR conversion enzyme in protstate cells
>themselves.
>
>She would be better to take finasteride for the hair loss, if DHT is the
>problem.
>However, that is even more likely to reduce libido.
>
Some clarifiction, please. If lowered DHT raises testosterone by
leaving more of it unconverted, shouldn't that increase libido? Or is
DHT the major trigger for libido (and thus finasteride would lower
libido even more because it inhibits the test.>DHT conversion more
strongly)?
Also, are these effects identical in men?
Chris
eric
> Some clarifiction, please. If lowered DHT raises testosterone by
> leaving more of it unconverted, shouldn't that increase libido? Or is
> DHT the major trigger for libido (and thus finasteride would lower
> libido even more because it inhibits the test.>DHT conversion more
> strongly)?
>
> Also, are these effects identical in men?
>
DHT is a stronger androgen period. 5-alpha reductase allows perticular areas
of the body to experience more androgen binding by amplfing available
testosterone. 5-alpha reductase is found in the prostate, penis, scalp, skin
to some extent, and the brain (this is just an educated guess).
By elimating the 5-alpha reductase you are reducing androgen amplifacation
in the brain.
correct me if im wrong.
There may also be a non androgen receptor mediated mechanism that makes DHT
a more powerful CNS stimulant.
eric
> leaving more of it unconverted, shouldn't that increase libido? Or is
> DHT the major trigger for libido (and thus finasteride would lower
> libido even more because it inhibits the test.>DHT conversion more
> strongly)?
>
> Also, are these effects identical in men?
>
Dht is a more potent androgen than testosterone. Throught the enzyme 5 alpha
reductase testosterone activity is amplified by converting test to dht where
ever 5-ar is found. 5-ar is found in the penis, scalp, skin to some extent,
and in the brain (not 100% possitive on this last one, but pretty sure).
DHT may also be a more potent CNS androgen through some other non androgen
recptor mediated activity.
and no, in adult males finasteride wont shrink your penis, nor should extra
test make it bigger.
Tom Matthews
>
> On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 16:28:03 GMT, Tom Matthews
> <tom...@internet.look.ca> wrote:
>
> >Saw palmetto lows serum DHT (to the small extent it does) buy preventing
> >its conversion from testosterone and thereby *raising* testosterone.
> >In addition, saw palmetto has never been proven to help with hairloss,
> >and it may not, partly because its major effect is to work directly on
> >the testosterone receptors and 5AR conversion enzyme in protstate cells
> >themselves.
> >
> >She would be better to take finasteride for the hair loss, if DHT is the
> >problem.
> >However, that is even more likely to reduce libido.
> >
> leaving more of it unconverted, shouldn't that increase libido? Or is
> DHT the major trigger for libido (and thus finasteride would lower
> libido even more because it inhibits the test.>DHT conversion more
> strongly)?
The last is correct.
eric explained it fairly well.
Much of the conversion of testosterone to DHT occurs at the
receptor/cell membrane level and the DHT is not released after
conversion.
This is also true for some of the aromatization of testosterone to
estrogen, I think.
Testosterone is considered to be a "pro-hormome" (except for muscle
cells where it works directly)
and has its major effects by converting to other things right in the
cell membrane and then the synthesized DHT binds strongly to the
receptor and causes the intracellular effect.
> Also, are these effects identical in men?
The effect on the brain for libido purposes is virtually identical
between the sexes.
The effect on sex cell types will be different of course because of the
different types of sexually related cells.
> Chris
--