uht-bachynsky
Dutchess
His website is www.lymetherapy.com
The therapy is great. I did it in july 2003 for two weeks and I feel better
than I have done in 20 years.
First I had done it in 2001 for only three and two days. No additional
therapies. It helped me a lot but I still had some symptoms. Than I found
out I still had babesiosis.
I did a 4 week cure with mepron for the babesiosis. Than I developed an
allergy to the mepron.
I went to Italy last july and did the heat therapy and only two days of
antibiotics due to my allergies. I did not do the hyperbaric. ( couldn't
face being in the little room)
So the main thing I did was ICHT. I am so glad I went and I am very very
gratefull to dr. Bachynsky.
To anyone who is considering going I would say give it a try. Treat
co-infections shortly before you go.
There are of course no guarantees but I took the gamble and I am very happy
I did.
Before I did many therapies including 4 month of intravenous abx, years of
oral abx,colloidal silver etc.
UHT finally did the trick.
If it will last noone knows but that goes for any therapy for lyme since it
is such a nasty bacteria.
But I am a different person thanks to docter Bachynsky.
I am in contact with several patiënts who did the therapy.
About half of the people I know have personally told me it cured them. Which
I think is a very good score considering that most of them had tried many
therapies before with no results.
From most of the others who did not get cured I heard they had more issues.
a.o.babesiosis, ehrlichiosis, or damaged nerves.
I feel very sorry for the people who went in vain. Hope they will find a
cure soon.
Due to the overwhelming amount of spam I received the last time I posted on
this newsgroup I haven't been keeping up my mail account, but I will check
this newsgroup regularly now so I will hopefully read any questions you
have here.
Never give up
H.
Rita Stanley
was presented. A lot is censored there about ICHT and other topics esp.
posts of a questioning nature or posts that present information that certain
people do not want to see. Argument is considered "offensive" or nasty, or
"negative" or "disruptive" rather than thought-provoking (advancement in any
thought process does not occur in a controlled, go along to get along
environment) , and so a limited picture gets presented. People can't make
decisions based on what someone considers the best for them. Did the doctor
who died actually see all sides to this picuture when he made a decision, or
was he actively recruited on the internet because the controversies were
made difficult to find?
There was concern about this post being deleted, so someone posted it again.
I think it has merit. It is from the thread
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/019086.html which may or may not be
deleted if you access it to read the entire thing::
ASCT
Flash Member
Posts: 22
From: CT USA
Registered: Jul 2003
posted 21 August 2003 16:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In respect of hopetohelp and in the memory of his young brother, here
is his original post.
My brother was the young doctor who tragically lost his life in Italy
during the UHT.
He was a very intelligent doctor, which is why my parents, my oldest
brother, and I did not question his desire for the treatment.
He had always been an active young man and when his lyme disease
caught up with him it took away a part of his life. He would have tried
anything to get better. We never thought that it would take his life.
My parents did everything they could to help him. He lived with them
for the past two years, in which he tried everything to get better. I am a
pharmacist, so I was able to get him his medications as cheap as possible.
He tried colestid, rocephin, ceftin, different oral solutions,
supplements, etc.
No matter how sick he felt he tried to keep his spirits up. He read at
my wedding 8 months ago even though he could barely stand.
I spoke with him every night, and before he left for Italy I asked him
if the treatment was safe and he said yes. I spoke with him on the Sunday
before his death and he sounded so good.
I was devasted when I received the call Tuesday evening that he had
died. I immediately drove to my parents the next day to be with them, but I
never expected the ordeal ahead.
It took over a week to get my brother back to this country so we could
have a funeral.
My dad spent every day on the phone with the doctor trying to find out
what happened. I thought it was odd that it seemed so difficult to get an
autopsy. We still haven't received the results.
My opinion, knowing his past medical history, was that he died from an
electrolyte imbalance that caused two seizures, according to the doctor.
If this is the case, then his death could have been prevented. As the
other man who was in the room next to my brother pointed out, this was not a
hospital.
There was not adequate equipment or drugs available to treat trauma.
My brother did not have any allergies to medications, not even any adverse
reactions besides the usual stomach problems associated with lyme disease.
We were very close, and he was one of the most loving people I have
ever met. Anyone who ever knew him could only say good things about him
because he was so much fun to be around.
He struggled with the disease but he shouldn't have passed away.
Anyone considering this treatment should keep in mind the people who
may be left behind.
My family and I will never recover from our loss, and we will always
think there must have been something we could have done.
But my parents did try everything for their son. He lived with them
for two years and took him to see a doctor in Phila, bought him any
medication no matter the cost, and supported him in everything he wanted to
try, including the UHT.
He had all of us convinced that he would come back better, which is
why we didn't stop him.
I would like to thank those of you for your kind words to my family,
and to the gentleman and his wife for writing about what really happened
over there.
Please remember that the clinic is not a hospital and does not have
adequate facilities or medicatios to treat trauma.
My oldest brother thinks that if he had been in the US he could have
been saved.
Also remember that the drug DNP is a pesticide with very serious side
effects. How each person's body reacts to such a poison is never
predictable.
My brother's girlfriend is setting up a website on Lyme disease
dedicated to him, which I will post when it is complete.
I am also looking into creating a scholarship fund in his name at the
college he once loved.
Please continue your prayers, as I will continue to pray for all who
suffer from this devastating disease.
Frank Andreas de Groot
>
> Also remember that the drug DNP is a pesticide with very serious side
> effects. How each person's body reacts to such a poison is never
> predictable.
What nonsense!
The same could be said about nitroglycerine, which has saved countless heart
patients:
"Also remember that the drug nitroglycerine is a powerful explosive that is
widely used by Al Qaida and how the body reacts to such an explosive is never
predictable".
This is spreading FUD with no medical/scientific basis WHATSOEVER.
To put things into perspective for the people who are new:
R. Stanley is a stakeholder in a competing (also extremely expensive)
Lyme-curing scheme (HBOT).
WoodTick
That means you were there when the young American physician died while
undergoing the UHT therapy in Italy.
Maybe you will be called as a witness.
Frank Andreas de Groot
>
> This is spreading FUD with no medical/scientific basis WHATSOEVER.
Oh, and BTW, I would not trust a doctor who would claim to cure Lyme patients
with hyperthermia and none of his patients would die in the process. Lyme is a
deadly disease and hyperthermia sufficient enough to cure the disease is a very
big strain on a sick person.
This serves that Bachynsky is bona-fide, not like that fake hyperthermia in
Mexico.
OF COURSE 1 in 200, 300 people die during such a treatment!
What did you think? It's very severe treatment, for crying out loud.
What do you do when 1 in 200 cancer patients die on the operating table of a
doctor, vilify him?
It's NORMAL that sick people die during strong treatment. His death might have
been preventable, but then again, he would probably have died of Lyme anyway,
only slower.
Did he drink enough during treatment?
Did he have a long flight (US-Italy)?
Strokes are common even 2 weeks after long flights.
Who says it's the DNP that killed him anyway?
jill ellen
today. I assume James Johnson is doing well too.
It is a risky treatment, and sometimes a cure; and each individual has
the right and responsibility to assess that risk themselves, and if
they *choose* to go out of the country, and pay for an unorthodox
treatment, the responsibility lies with them for choosing it. Nobody
is handcuffing anybody or forcing them to do anything.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> treatment, the responsibility lies with them for choosing it. Nobody
> is handcuffing anybody or forcing them to do anything.
The brother of the deceased is a cardiologist and the deceased himself was a
dentist.
Still they thought the benefits of DNP outweighed the risks.
The risk with DNP is that it is a non-specific mitochondrial uncoupler.
The ideal uncoupler only uncouples mitochondria in cells of tissues that are
non-essential to sustain life, like the voluntary muscles.
DNP uncouples heart & brain cells, so those cells have a risk of running out of
ATP ("fuel" for cells, DNP speeds up the metabolism so that fuel is burnt
faster)
The cells ceases to function when it has no ATP.
You might be able to reduce the risk by keeping the liver filled with glycocen.
(eating food with high glycemic index every 4 hours should do the trick)
Anyway, I posted all this stuff BEFORE the poor guy died, but hey, he & his
family being doctors, I doubt that they read anything at all. It's the typical
"MD stubbornness" that killed him. Reluctance to get educated.
I haven't done DNP but I have read every single DNP animal experiment online.
I have a whole stash of DNP-related abstracts here, asked questions to people
who have done DNP-self medication, etc. I said that if anyone needed advice /
more info, just ask me.
That MD-guy and his MD-familly thought they didn't need my literature research,
ideas and opinions.
Well, RIP.
I know a lot more about Lyme than any LLMD and I know a lot more about DNP than
Dr. Bachynsky.
Now some people go whining and trying to get hyperthermia cut off for Lymies.
That is poor sportsmanship, envious, childish and just vile.
Dutchess
This post is new to me. I did meet the patiėnt and was there when it
happened.
His family has had a great shock and I wish them strenght in their grieving
proces.
To complete the picture from my point of view here is some information I
would like to add.
Our fellow patiėnt died during the first few days of treatment. It was a
great shock to us all. The clinic is not big and all us Lyme patients were
in contact a lot. So we knew him personally and we knew what happened.
We were told there was going to be an autopsy but noone knew the cause of
death at that time. It could have been anything varying from aneurysm to
heart attack.
Everybody who was there at the time continued their treatment. If we hadn't
felt it was safe we would have gone home.
The clinic is small, but well equiped.
It is not a state of the art hospital with hundreds of beds and hundreds of
specialists.
They do however have the basics like e.g. a CT scan. They also have the
hyperbaric facility.
There are fully equiped hospitals nearby and I am sure Dr. Bachynsky would
have transported the patient if he had thought it would save his life. One
other patient who was treated with ICHT a long time before this told me that
she was transported to another hospital when she had disturbing symptoms. So
it would be unfounded to suggest otherwise.
My information was that due to the concerns surrounding his death his body
was taken to a top hospital in Milan to do an independent autopsy.
The results were known informally in summer but not formally released until
september because during august nothing was processed in that particular
hospital due to a summer break I heard.
When I heard there was an electrolyte inbalance I remembered I was told
years ago by a very knowledgeable doctor that I shouldn't take certain
sportsdrinks because in combination with the medicine and supplements I was
taken it could cause an electrolyte inbalance which could lead to an attack
that could kill me. I am no doctor but it sounded plausibel to me.
As you mentioned Rita everyone should make their own independent choice. I
asked a medical doctor, with several lyme patients and a docter in
biochemicals who has his own specialized health center check everything out
before I went.
This made me confident it was oke for me. They even said it was my best
option. And I am glad I did.
Please consider the whole picture and make an informed decision. I found
out years ago that the medical profession is far from infallable. Lots of
statistics here.
The best thing is not to get a disease :-)
Whatever you decide to do
Never give up
Henriėtte
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:XMTvb.211592$ao4.752035@attbi_s51...
Dutchess
But than who knows. If you get fat in the States it seems you can prosecute
the person who sold you the food.
"WoodTick" <Woodt...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:94d2171b.03112...@posting.google.com...
Frank Andreas de Groot
> They do however have the basics like e.g. a CT scan.
The entire country of Norway (4.5 million inhabitants and one of the richest
countries in the world with a multi-billion USD budget *surplus*) does not have
a CT scanner, they cost millions of USD and millions/year to operate. Either you
are mistaken or that hospital is one of the largest and best equipped in Italy.
Rita Stanley
> Rita,
>>
> As you mentioned Rita everyone should make their own independent choice. I
> asked a medical doctor, with several lyme patients and a docter in
> biochemicals who has his own specialized health center check everything
out
> before I went.
> This made me confident it was oke for me. They even said it was my best
> option. And I am glad I did.
>
> Please consider the whole picture and make an informed decision. I found
> out years ago that the medical profession is far from infallable. Lots of
> statistics here.
You can't make an informed decision when the factual information is deleted,
hidden and difficult to find. Then when found, damned. I remember how people
said the factual information was "nasty rumors"......................
You mean you checked out his legal problems involving all sorts of
confidence schemes (deja news sci.med for all details) and loss of license
http://204.65.101.19/OnLineVerif/Phys_ReportVerif.asp?ID_NUM=51620&Type=LP,
etc?
I wonder if the doctor who died ever got the whole picture - from stuff
like http://www.lymetreatment.com./ (I see the disclaimers changed as soon
as the doc died) and Lymeflash. I wonder what that story really will turn
out to be. This man trusted his life to someone who was untrustworthy.
OK.
What doctor in his right mind would ever recommend this guy? How could
anyone with any conscience recommend or enable this "clinic"?
Rita
WoodTick
about DNP than
> Dr. Bachynsky.
And I know alot more about Dr. Bachynsky than you do.
You may know alot about Lyme and you may know alot about DNP, but when
a scoundrel/criminal/moral-less/ethics-less/continent-running/ruthless
scumbag administers it.....the consequences are less than ideal.
The fact is, the young doctor who died really wouldn't have had that
much information to base his decision on. He could go to the Lyme
Disease bulletin boards and get easily sucked into the ICHT/UHT
phenomenon because 99% of all posts were PRO ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky. He
probably didn't know about you, Frank, and your treasure chest of
information on Lyme and DNP.
LYMENET has long been the premier procurer of ICHT/UHT participants.
Anyone who posted on Lymenet against the therapy or, especially,
against Bachynsky in any way, shape or form, saw their post deleted
within minutes. The patient coordinator, Roseanne, was a Lymenet
regular, as was L. James Johnson, who went to work for Bachynsky also.
If the ONLY information out there is showing a high percentage of
cure-rates, can the young doctor who died actually be faulted for not
contacting Frank? He would have no way of knowing about you or your
researach, Frank. If you tried to post your theories on Lymenet you
wouldn't stand a chance.
So,everyone, please quit faulting the young doctor himself for dying
at the hands of Nicholas Bachynsky.
SloWa6000
>I have a whole stash of DNP-related abstracts here, asked questions to people
>who have done DNP-self medication, etc. I said that if anyone needed advice /
>more info, just ask me.
>That MD-guy and his MD-familly thought they didn't need my literature
>research,
>ideas and opinions.
If you wouldn't mind I would enjoy reading some of these articles. I find it
fascinating myself and it's certainly something to follow along with. Not
considering doing UHT at this time but I would like to know more about it. If
no one screams to loud they could be posted here or you could send them through
my personal email. :)
That's one reason I like visiting this area. We can say what we like without
fear of having them pulled. We just have to have a strong backbone to ignore
the ones that say nasty things about what we post.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> And I know alot more about Dr. Bachynsky than you do.
Nice for you, but hardly medically relevant.
> You may know alot about Lyme and you may know alot about DNP, but when
> a scoundrel/criminal/moral-less/ethics-less/continent-running/ruthless
> scumbag administers it.....the consequences are less than ideal.
The DNP molecule does not know who administers it.
> The fact is, the young doctor who died really wouldn't have had that
> much information to base his decision on. He could go to the Lyme
> Disease bulletin boards and get easily sucked into the ICHT/UHT
> phenomenon because 99% of all posts were PRO ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky. He
> probably didn't know about you, Frank, and your treasure chest of
> information on Lyme and DNP.
It's unwise not to do a few websearches and Google USENET when planning to do
things like let yourself be injected with DNP. Non-Internet savvy people, of
people with too big ego's will become extinct in a complex society.
> LYMENET has long been the premier procurer of ICHT/UHT participants.
> Anyone who posted on Lymenet against the therapy or, especially,
> against Bachynsky in any way, shape or form, saw their post deleted
> within minutes. The patient coordinator, Roseanne, was a Lymenet
> regular, as was L. James Johnson, who went to work for Bachynsky also.
Sure, many of Dr Bachynski's patients are unreliable and believe in "magic",
but that does not mean ICHT doesn't work. Personally, the people who advocate
DNP, I think they have no clue what they are talking about. I base my opinions
on DNP on science, not on the testimonies of a few people who would just as easy
try Voodoo and swear that it works.
> If the ONLY information out there is showing a high percentage of
> cure-rates, can the young doctor who died actually be faulted for not
> contacting Frank? He would have no way of knowing about you or your
> researach, Frank. If you tried to post your theories on Lymenet you
> wouldn't stand a chance.
Google, my dear, Google.
Without Googling enough, you die sooner, it's as simple as that.
> So,everyone, please quit faulting the young doctor himself for dying
> at the hands of Nicholas Bachynsky.
If he does not want to learn how to use a newsreader or a search engine, that's
his decision.
And there is no evidence that B. killed him, so you are liable to be sued for
libel or worse.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> If you wouldn't mind I would enjoy reading some of these articles. I find it
> fascinating myself and it's certainly something to follow along with.
Google for the links here.
I don't keep a database.
Just do a search with my name as the author and DNP in the message body and
perhaps include another keyword, like "uncoupler" or "risk" etc.
WoodTick
young physician who died in Italy in July, could possibly have gotten
any bad info about ICHT.
LYMENET was/is a primary source of info for ICHT (now UHT) and any
postings in any way against ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky were deleted within
minutes of posting. It's very possible, and highly likely, that the
physician who died while undergoing Bachynsky's ICHT in Italy, never
had a clue there was any bad press.
Since LYMENET was a major vein of information for seekers of
ICHT/Bachynsky's therapy, only adverse posts were deleted, so....to
anyone posting looking for information, the only posts available would
be pro-ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky advising Lyme sufferers to go for it.
In my personal opinion, LYMENET is responsible for pushing alot of
patients to ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky in Italy. Rushkiller/Rose (Roseanne
Barrett) and L. James Johnson, would, obviously, be at the top of the
list, since they went on to work for Bachynsky.
And you, JEN, went out of your way to get Lou Bachmann, of LYMENET, to
delete posts that were negative Bachynsky and ICHT on numerous
occasions. Technically, you are as guilty as anyone for steering some
of these people to their death.
Italy x 4 patients
Mexico x 6 patients
Switzerland x 2 patients
Where next?
WoodTick
> A wittness in what? As far as I know there is no case.
>
Normally, that would be laughable, but in this case it is not.
Appropriate agencies are investigating Bachynsky now. Have you not
seen the postings? Italian authorities are looking for Bachynsky, but
of course, he has skated off somewhere. It's only a matter of time.
They will find him if they haven't already.
Did you or did you not know there was a death in Italy while you were
being treated in July 2003??? Did you truly not know of the death of
the 28-year old physician in Italy? Or are you just putting on the
"Mask of Bachynsky" and denying all?
If you were in Italy in July 2003 (as you just posted) you will
certainly be a material witness to the young physician's death.
Hoepfully, his family is watching this board.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> postings in any way against ICHT/UHT/Bachynsky were deleted within
> minutes of posting. It's very possible, and highly likely, that the
> physician who died while undergoing Bachynsky's ICHT in Italy, never
> had a clue there was any bad press.
What nonsense.
It was his choice to rely exclusively on a commercial, heavily censored,
non-Google searchable website for his info instead of the public USENET.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> certainly be a material witness to the young physician's death.
> Hoepfully, his family is watching this board.
She actually heard him die, she had the room next to his.
If you would have read this newsgroup better you would have known.
I wonder whether anyone called a doc, BTW..
WoodTick
treatment,....but god knows you sure tried, didn't you?????
How many posts can we contribute to you in defense of Bachynsky's
bogus treatment??
How many times did you speak with him & post positively of his therapy
& your conversations with him? OOooh, Jen, your research is all
documented....all your posts, that is. Have the authorities contacted
you yet???
Get ready!!! Oh, yeah....check the ISP of this post so you know
exactly who it is....(ha!)..as if you have more than one nemesis.
Joel??? Ha!
WoodTick
What proof do you have of that? Has the family spoken to you directly?
That is what appears....
Frank Andreas de Groot
> No, Jen...no one forced or handcuffed anyone to do the
> treatment,....but god knows you sure tried, didn't you?????
You give her too much credit.
I can't imagine that logically thinking people can be influenced by her.
Sinaj101
>Anyone who posted on Lymenet against the therapy or, especially,
>against Bachynsky in any way, shape or form, saw their post deleted
>within minutes. The patient coordinator, Roseanne, was a Lymenet
>regular, as was L. James Johnson, who went to work for Bachynsky also.
I remember this Roseanne that was here some time back. She seemed to be a
trouble maker and at the time I was pretty much in remission so I didn't follow
along with the ICHT therapy very much. I know more about it lately since
relapsing.
It is a shame that posts on LymeNet were removed and people aren't allow the
freedom to weigh things back and forth. That's the main reason I am here now
and not on any other Lyme message boards. Even though occasionally we do have
to put up with some hecklers. :-(
WoodTick
> She actually heard him die, she had the room next to his.
> If you would have read this newsgroup better you would have known.
> I wonder whether anyone called a doc, BTW..
I did miss that bit of information. I read someone's account on
Lymenet who stated he was in the room next to the man who died, but I
don't recall reading anything on this board. Any hints on where I
might find it?
Frank Andreas de Groot
> Lymenet who stated he was in the room next to the man who died, but I
> don't recall reading anything on this board. Any hints on where I
> might find it?
Roughly half of the time I say something, people ask for a reference.
Not just here, everywhere.
Keeping databases of everything I read for the sole benefit of incredulous/inept
people would reduce my information-uptake to a trickle. The only advice I have
is: Become a Google-virtuoso.
Dutchess
Rita,
Maybe you better check your facts.
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:wz9wb.218341$ao4.776722@attbi_s51...
Rita Stanley
I had to research the area because I was assigned Johnson's original article
to edit for LA. My advise was that it was unpublishable and highly biased;
my concerns about conflict of interest were borne out. As were my concerns
about safety and legality, etc. What a shame. I only hope no one was enticed
to do the treatment from this article.
Nevertheless, enlighten me on the "facts". Not your opinion. Can you erase
his past? Can you convince me that this person with untrustworthy background
is to be trusted with lives?
Tell me why any person of conscience should enable this clinic. Tell me how
any doctor who wants to retain credibility and license to practice would
recommend this "clinic".
Rita
"Dutchess" <there...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fc23fa5$0$170$1b62...@news.wanadoo.nl...
Frank Andreas de Groot
> Nevertheless, enlighten me on the "facts". Not your opinion. Can you erase
> his past? Can you convince me that this person with untrustworthy background
> is to be trusted with lives?
Simple market forces ensure his care.
He does not want to get a bad name.
You know that just as well as I do.
So what's your REAL agenda?
Dutchess
Rita,
The method was reviewed, not the person.
Whether or not Dr. Bachynsky was accused of fraud has something that has no
bearing on whether the method works or not.
He was the only one offering it and I am glad I got this opportunity.
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:wz9wb.218341$ao4.776722@attbi_s51...
Dutchess
How old are you wood tick?
People die in hospitals every day without there being a case.
Anyway I find the amount of opinions, hearsay, gossip and nonsens that is
posted here overwhelming.
Just because something appears in print doesn't make it true.
It just means someone took the time to type it.
The only thing I know for 100% is that I did the treatment. It got me better
than I have been in 20 years. Dr. Bachynsky treated me very well. What I saw
of him he was knowledgeable, conscientious and helpfull.
He might have other sides but since I did not witness these I will not
comment on them. Maybe a good idea for more people to just talk about their
own experiences.
Have you ever met Dr Bachynsky and if so what exactly did he do to you that
you are so hellbent on spreading bad things about him?
"WoodTick" <Woodt...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:94d2171b.03112...@posting.google.com...
Frank Andreas de Groot
>
> Have you ever met Dr Bachynsky and if so what exactly did he do to you that
> you are so hellbent on spreading bad things about him?
Conflicting financial interests, Bachynsky and Stanley share the same market of
rich gullible Lymies like yourself. Stanley with her HBOT can't tolerate that
Bachynsky is doing the same but added hyperthermia and IV abx. She is a bad
loser.
Now, who would trust a self-proclaimed "Lyme support person" (Stanley) when it's
clear that she is unable to have rational, logical thoughts? I mean, equating
tax evasion with murder, using FUD and nonsensical "arguments", trying to remove
ICHT as a choice for informed Lymies, she is a strong liability to the
international Lyme community and someone should stop her before it's too late
and people will die due to her actions.
Stanley, face it, they are NOT going to fall for your cronies' HBOT scam, you
have to come up with something more compelling instead if you want a piece of
the pie.
You know what Stanley did when, 3 years ago, I posted about the risks of HBOT?
She launched a MASSIVE defamation-of-character campaign against me and tried to
get me cut off the Internet, denied all medically documented facts about the
risks of HBOT.
That's how "objective" Madame Stanley is.
She is a major stakeholder in HBOT treatment for Lymies and Bachynsky is her
major competitor.
That's why she vilifies Bachinsky 24/7 instead of focusing on useful stuff for
Lyme patients here.
Since I am on this newsgroup (4 years or so), Stanley hasn't come up with a
single original thought of her own. She is a vile politician and sees Lyme as
something to derive power and money from.
WoodTick
and came back with 4 postings only, all within the last 2 days, none
of which stated she was in the room next to the man who died. That's
why I asked where I might find it. Maybe you read it on another
newsgroup.
Rita Stanley
>
> Rita,
>
> The method was reviewed, not the person.
These are the "facts" you are showing me?
Who "reviewed" the method?
The record (dejasearch) shows how good the "method" (whatever THAT is or
was (involved a whole bunch of stuff) - seems it took a lot to get him to
cough up that he was even using DNP in the beginning for
starters..........speaking of ethics) shown to be.
The person's ethics are the groundrock of medical treatment AND research. If
you don't buy that, then you get what you deserve.
>
> Whether or not Dr. Bachynsky was accused of fraud has something that has
no
> bearing on whether the method works or not.
Oh, yes it does. Untrustworthy people do illegal, unethical and
untrustworthy things. They suck in the gullible, and they get these people
to "work" for them to suck in more and to damn anyone who would question.
Note Johnson's involvement as well as others. Also, note how almost everyone
who supported him flew the coop since the doc's death. Or is rationalizing
their invovlement. And blaming a dead doc for being sucked in by a jolly
crew of recruiters. Pathetic.
He was not accused, BTW, he was convicted of numerous illigal activities
pertaining to patients. THOSE are supportable facts. They are out there and
one can search and find them easily now. In the beginning it took great
effort.
Where is he now anyway?
Rita
Frank Andreas de Groot
news:94d2171b.03112...@posting.google.com...
> To read Dutchess'post of what you said I did a search on her postings
> and came back with 4 postings only, all within the last 2 days, none
> of which stated she was in the room next to the man who died.
Nope.
The problem with "Dutchess" is that she changes monikers like Ismelda Marcos
changed her shoes.
> That's why I asked where I might find it. Maybe you read it on another
newsgroup.
Nope.
But if "Dutchess" isn't willing to enlighten us again, I'm afraid you just have
to believe what I said at face value.
And come on, you have to learn to use Google. Not bloody search for postings of
the same author..
Use your imagination. Make up a story inside your head that could contain the
words that might be in a story that someone could have posted here, about being
next door from the dying guy. Actually it made me sick because the story implied
that several people overheard him dying (rather noisily) over the course of at
least 1.5 hours and nobody lifted a finger. I may be wrong, but that was the
impression I got from the story at least.
Rita Stanley
2Bgroup:sci.med.diseases.lyme%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26c
2coff%3D1%26filter%3D0
Rita Stanley
Just to summarize: I learned about the details of the Italy clinic and the
background info from the research I had to do to review Johnson's article
for possible publication. Otherwise I would not have learned as much as I
did. In fact, I wasn't much interested way back when because it appeared to
be just another scam that surfaces from time to time, sucking in the
desperate, and leaving damage in its wake. That article should never have
been published by any organization with any reputation at all.
What struck me from the very first to the very last can be summarized in one
word, and that is deceit. The marketing was deceitful from using false
patients on the internet for recruiting (does a reputable place use fake
patients?), to the lying about what products were being used (only revealed
when push came to shove, and it became obvious that an illegal chemical was
being used), to the status of Bachynsky's medical license, to the recruiting
of patients who would further recruit patients to the clinic, to the death
of the doctor, to the quick inability to locate the "doctor" (no license
there) following the death, etc.etc. It all smelled like a week old fish.
Deceit.
If by chance you find yourself feeling that deceit is not important, you
deserve anything that comes your way. Really. But don't rag on a dead
physician who was sucked in by deceit. Often the most educated are not the
wisest when it comes to human chicanery.
And if by chance you are trying to recruit further for another clinic
somewhere, then it just futhers the concept of deceit.
Which says it all.
Rita
WoodTick
speaking directly to me, WoodTick. I am not Rita Stanley. Rita
obviously has the balls to post as herself and isn't afraid to say
what she feels.
I honestly do not think RS comes here to villify Bachynsky so she can
get more HBOT patients or whatever it is you're claiming. I think she
sees him for what he is. Just because you can't see it, or choose not
to Frank, doesn't mean it isn't so.
I will continue to look for the post, Frank. I know how to use Google,
but since you said Dutchess posted it that's where I went first. I
don't see where the above link helps much since it is simply a
reposting of Lymex3's Lymenet post of his experience. Unless Lymex3 &
Dutchess are the same.
Rita Stanley
> speaking directly to me, WoodTick. I am not Rita Stanley. Rita
> obviously has the balls to post as herself and isn't afraid to say
> what she feels.
>
> I honestly do not think RS comes here to villify Bachynsky so she can
> get more HBOT patients or whatever it is you're claiming.
Frank is in my killfile so I don't know what he is saying. The same old
thing about HBOT?
Just dejanews my reply on that one. It gets tiresome to respond to the same
old lying scenrio designed to discredit me. If anyone can find some
conflict-of-interest on my part about anything, go ahead. Making up crap
doesn't count although some think it's the way to go. Is that one learned in
5th grade? Such good argument! Bravo!
> I think she
> sees him for what he is.
The facts speak for themselves. I just dug for them because I wasn't content
to take any of the hype at face value and because I had to review an
article. How hard is that?
And if some of the argument that I have kill-filed is that" deaths occur all
the time in medical practice so the doc death is justified". Please. How can
you compare what a properly licensed doctor does - even though iatrogenic
deaths are a leading cause of death in the US - with someone who does stuff
w/o a medical license? Even if that person now claims he
"consults".................see disclaimer on site. What went on in that
clinic is more analogous to getting the guy down the street - or even a
biochemist or pharmacist if you want to up the credentials - to start IVing
you with stuff (or overseeing someone to do it) because he has some
hypothesis that you will be cured. What do you call that? One has a license
to practice medicine so that there are SOME standards to hopefully keep
things under some sort of control. What would the death rate be if there
were no standards?
What would you call it if I oversaw - or actually did the procedure - of
injecting a person with DNP and the patient died? Or even if the patient
didn't die - yet?
What, did you say you would call the cops? Or would you say it's OK because
deaths occur all the time in proper medical practices?
Rita
WoodTick
WoodTick
Really? Bachynsky? He already HAS a bad name...and the truth is...HE
knows it! Why do you think he doesn't come on these boards and speak
up for himself?? He KNOWS!
He used to. Do a search. He posted as WERNB. His patsy posted as
Hope4U a couple of years ago, to initially stir up the interest in
ICHT in Switzerland. She pretended to be a patient who had actually
undergone the therapy herself. She had alot of stuff on LYMEnet that
has since been deleted. I do think I have it somewhere. I will post it
at a later time when I find it.
He also posted to let people know he had heard of a new, innovative
therapy in Switzerland:
#1 <<("WERNB" <we...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011013072239...@mb-bd.aol.com...
> A new therapy is now avaialbale for chronic or persistent Lyme disease in
> Switzerland. It is a form of in vivo pasteurization, working by heating the
> spirochetes up with a new drug given IV to the point they can`t survive.
> Results have been 99% with negative follow-up PCR DNAs.
>
> Contact info is Richard Diagostino at 01141795417285)>>
_______________________________________________________
#2 <<Author Topic: Aeskulap Klinik
Hope4u
Flash Member
Posts: 19
From: Coral Springs
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 10 October 2001 11:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Just wanted to let you know yes, this is the clinic, much info on
cancer not so
much on lyme. Me and Doc Bachynsky are working on new lyme page for
site to
inform you of more I got lots of answers to all your questions that
will be
posed. Also will have direct doctor lines so you don't get vague
answers. I got
2 more #'s to Switzerland for yous people just waiting to answer yoiur
calls so
that is whats underway.
Rachele >>
_________________________________________________________
#3 <<Henriette, the person who did it last year, is doing real well
too as
is hope4u, fully cured.>>
_________________________________________________________
#4 <<From: Rosanne Barrett (r.bar...@verizon.net)
Subject: Re: CFIDS Chronicle focuses on Lyme and TBDs
View: Complete Thread (77 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: sci.med.diseases.lyme
Date: 2002-06-07 16:37:01 PST >>
Jill, hope4u posted on Septeber 27 2001. I spoke to her on April
lst., 2002 and she is doing great.
WoodTick
to no avail. I can't find anything where Dutchess (or another AKA)
posts of being in the next room to the doctor who died while
undergoing ICHT/UHT in Italy in July.
I see where Lymex3 posted of such on LYMEnet, but nothing on this
board.
I guess you win.
Frank Andreas de Groot
Ha!
WERNB? That's Bachynsky? I remember him!
*Very* intelligent posts, highly ethically motivated, very informed.
Now I am really convinced Bachynsky is 100% bona-fide.
Again, you can find a lot of criticasl things I have said about both Bachynsky
and ICHT, but still I would rush to get ICHT treatment. Anyone working to get
ICHT banned or Bachynsky out of business is responsible for removing one of the
only (perhaps *the* only) chances of a full cure for 3rd stage Lyme patients.
Here is the first posting I found with WERNB as an author:
---
Does the level of viremia correlate with increased surivival? The only way to
know for certain is to do long term studies on survival and see if there is a
positive correlation. Viremia (viral load) is a"relatively" new concept in
managing viral infections. A bacterial abscess, even if there is no
detectable bacteria in the blood on blood culture, can still cause morbidity
and mortality. Common sense, at least at the present, dictates that if
patients are improving on HAART, and this correlates with a decrease in viral
load, then there is some positive correlation. This appears to be the case, at
least in the short term.
The best advice to any Doc, and any patient, is ...treat the patient, not the
laboratory results. The patient will tell you if he/she is improving, And, if
that is the case, then keep treating with those drugs that are helping
irrespective of the viral load or other tests of viral resistance. All other
data, ie., lab results are helpful & rational and good reasoning- but
speculation only as to long term clinical benefits. The old saying "if you got
a horse, ride 'em" is appropriate until proven otherwise. Surrogate markers
are just surrogates, not the real McCoy.
N. Bachynsky, M.D., Ph.D.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> I wholeheartedly agree 100% with Rita's above post. I couldn't have said it
better.
Excuzez le mot, but..
Opinions are like assholes, everybody has them.
What makes them relevant are the ethical concepts behind them or the scientific
facts to back them up.
Merely stating that you have the same opinion, (especially without stating your
own credentials), is like shouting: "Look, I just shat a turd too!".
People who regurgitate opinions are not taken seriously by people who can make
logical deductions, inductions, reductions, generalizations etc. Stanley & you
are similar in the respect that both of you have no valid scientific arguments
against ICHT or Bachynsky's Lyme treatment, but you have a personal or business
antipathy against him, so you proceed to doubt his medical prowess by defaming
his character.
This is a well-known "dishonest discussion trick" and serves nothing but
removing your own credibility.
You have to understand that discussion tricks are reserved for politicians, and
shunned by scientists.
Frank Andreas de Groot
> bogus treatment??
As I just heard that Bachynsky posted as WE...@aol.com, I looked up his
retrievable posts.
This is a wonderful snippet from some of his posts that shows what an
exceptionally eminent scientific mind he has:
"In reading scientific literature, containing it's associated terms, I suggest
a few pointers: (1) don't be proud, repeatedly use a medical dictionary
(Stedman's) or an AIDS glossary (must be online?); (2) terms/definitions
should be read (interpreted) very narrowly; (3) relate terms to current dogma
(unless qualified); (4) in vitro or lab studies or designed only to test one
or two isolated questions - results do not always equate to in vivo; (5) in
vivo, mice are not (usually) men; (6) don't believe everything you read,
important results are quickly verified or disputed by another independent
study - wait for the hype and dust to settle; (7) read the introduction and
discussion sections of articles first, comprehend it's clinical implications,
i.e., what is in it for you."
(N. Bachynsky)
These are not the writings of the typical run-of-the-mill MD.
This is a highly critital-thinking, intelligent person.
I found *only* similar posts where Bachynsky is engaged in conversations aiming
to help AIDS patients, for example. No peddling of wares, no bullshit.
Bachynsky is perhaps not a genius by the definition of the word but he sure as
hell comes pretty damn close. He seems the kind of person that I would have as a
personal friend and believe me, I am =extremely= selective.
jill ellen
groups as WERNB at one time. I haven't talked to him in a long time
and it reminded me what a pleasure it was to discuss medical stuff of
any kind with him. The guy was friggin' brilliant.
WoodTick
there. Opinions are just that, opinions. Sometimes they're based on
logic, science, research, heresay, etc., but oftentimes they're simply
based on a gut feeling.
As far as my opinion of Bachynsky, it's a matter of history repeating
itself, over and over and over.
Dutchess
Why shouldn't I tell my experience.
I am gratefull someone cared enough to try this therapy.
The whole financial or marketing side of things I have and had nothing to do
with. If I am asked to tell my story why shouldn't I ?
I am only referring to the medical side and things I have firsthand
experience with.
It did help me and others.
And it did not help everyone. Neither did any other therapy.
I was treated well.
I did not pay for things I didn't receive.
For other people this might be different.
Anyway there were several docters involved with reputable names in Europe.
Were they incompetent too according to you?
That is the facts I am talking about.
The financial, tax or marketing scam you refer too I have not seen or
experienced.
I am not about to comment on this one way or another since I have no
knowledge about this.
Unlike some people here I am not basing anything on other peoples stories
unless I personnaly talked to them.
I would appreciate it if you stopped insinuating there is a connection which
doesn't exist.
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:Zhuwb.222458$275.842251@attbi_s53...
Dutchess
To resolve the confusion.
Thanks Frank for your posts. it is good to find logical and intelligent
posts here. I am glad you are on this newsgroup because you keep insanity
here in check :-))))
The post about the patient next door was from another patient.I know from
which patient.
We were all in rooms not far from eachother and we all saw eachother daily.
I haven't posted on the Italy trip because I wanted to see how I progressed.
I will keep y'all posted on progression and regression under the name
Dutchess so there will not be more confusion.
I am not posting here a lot because I have a hard time with alll the
agression it seems to invoke.
And I did change names once but that was over a year ago.
So it is not hard to find my posts should anyone be interested.
I don't mind answering to remarks on my posts but I find all else that is
attributed to me very annoying. Could everyone please stop doing that.
Thanks
Dutchess
"Frank Andreas de Groot" <nos...@abcdefgnospam.biz> schreef in bericht
news:Edtwb.1131$Y06....@news4.e.nsc.no...
joshuapa...@gmail.com
Would you be able to shed any more light on the patient you knew and who died. I am beginning to beleive it was my very good friend from high school. All the details line up. But I cannot get closure on what happened, and if this is him.
On Sunday, November 23, 2003 4:03:55 PM UTC-5, Dutchess wrote:
> Rita,
>
> This post is new to me. I did meet the patiënt and was there when it
> happened.
> His family has had a great shock and I wish them strenght in their grieving
> proces.
>
>
> To complete the picture from my point of view here is some information I
> would like to add.
>
> Our fellow patiënt died during the first few days of treatment. It was a
> great shock to us all. The clinic is not big and all us Lyme patients were
> in contact a lot. So we knew him personally and we knew what happened.
> We were told there was going to be an autopsy but noone knew the cause of
> death at that time. It could have been anything varying from aneurysm to
> heart attack.
>
> Everybody who was there at the time continued their treatment. If we hadn't
> felt it was safe we would have gone home.
> The clinic is small, but well equiped.
> It is not a state of the art hospital with hundreds of beds and hundreds of
> specialists.
> They do however have the basics like e.g. a CT scan. They also have the
> hyperbaric facility.
> There are fully equiped hospitals nearby and I am sure Dr. Bachynsky would
> have transported the patient if he had thought it would save his life. One
> other patient who was treated with ICHT a long time before this told me that
> she was transported to another hospital when she had disturbing symptoms. So
> it would be unfounded to suggest otherwise.
>
> My information was that due to the concerns surrounding his death his body
> was taken to a top hospital in Milan to do an independent autopsy.
>
> The results were known informally in summer but not formally released until
> september because during august nothing was processed in that particular
> hospital due to a summer break I heard.
>
> When I heard there was an electrolyte inbalance I remembered I was told
> years ago by a very knowledgeable doctor that I shouldn't take certain
> sportsdrinks because in combination with the medicine and supplements I was
> taken it could cause an electrolyte inbalance which could lead to an attack
> that could kill me. I am no doctor but it sounded plausibel to me.
> As you mentioned Rita everyone should make their own independent choice. I
> asked a medical doctor, with several lyme patients and a docter in
> biochemicals who has his own specialized health center check everything out
> before I went.
> This made me confident it was oke for me. They even said it was my best
> option. And I am glad I did.
>
> Please consider the whole picture and make an informed decision. I found
> out years ago that the medical profession is far from infallable. Lots of
> statistics here.
>
>
>
> Whatever you decide to do
> Never give up
>
>
> Henriëtte
> news:XMTvb.211592$ao4.752035@attbi_s51...
> > The following original post on Lyment had been deleted almost as soon as
> it
> > was presented. A lot is censored there about ICHT and other topics esp.
> > posts of a questioning nature or posts that present information that
> certain
> > people do not want to see. Argument is considered "offensive" or nasty, or
> > "negative" or "disruptive" rather than thought-provoking (advancement in
> any
> > thought process does not occur in a controlled, go along to get along
> > environment) , and so a limited picture gets presented. People can't make
> > decisions based on what someone considers the best for them. Did the
> doctor
> > who died actually see all sides to this picuture when he made a decision,
> or
> > was he actively recruited on the internet because the controversies were
> > made difficult to find?
> >
> > There was concern about this post being deleted, so someone posted it
> again.
> > I think it has merit. It is from the thread
> > http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/019086.html which may or may not
> be
> > deleted if you access it to read the entire thing::
> >
> > ASCT
> > Flash Member
> > Posts: 22
> > From: CT USA
> > Registered: Jul 2003
> > posted 21 August 2003 16:21
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > In respect of hopetohelp and in the memory of his young brother,
> here
> > is his original post.
> >
> > My brother was the young doctor who tragically lost his life in
> Italy
> > during the UHT.
> >
> > He was a very intelligent doctor, which is why my parents, my oldest
> > brother, and I did not question his desire for the treatment.
> >
> > He had always been an active young man and when his lyme disease
> > caught up with him it took away a part of his life. He would have tried
> > anything to get better. We never thought that it would take his life.
> >
> > My parents did everything they could to help him. He lived with them
> > for the past two years, in which he tried everything to get better. I am a
> > pharmacist, so I was able to get him his medications as cheap as possible.
> > He tried colestid, rocephin, ceftin, different oral solutions,
> > supplements, etc.
> >
> > No matter how sick he felt he tried to keep his spirits up. He read
> at
> > my wedding 8 months ago even though he could barely stand.
> >
> > I spoke with him every night, and before he left for Italy I asked
> him
> > if the treatment was safe and he said yes. I spoke with him on the Sunday
> > before his death and he sounded so good.
> >
> > I was devasted when I received the call Tuesday evening that he had
> > died. I immediately drove to my parents the next day to be with them, but
> I
> > never expected the ordeal ahead.
> >
> > It took over a week to get my brother back to this country so we
> could
> > have a funeral.
> >
> > My dad spent every day on the phone with the doctor trying to find
> out
> > what happened. I thought it was odd that it seemed so difficult to get an
> > autopsy. We still haven't received the results.
> >
> > My opinion, knowing his past medical history, was that he died from
> an
> > electrolyte imbalance that caused two seizures, according to the doctor.
> >
> > If this is the case, then his death could have been prevented. As
> the
> > other man who was in the room next to my brother pointed out, this was not
> a
> > hospital.
> >
> > There was not adequate equipment or drugs available to treat trauma.
> > My brother did not have any allergies to medications, not even any adverse
> > reactions besides the usual stomach problems associated with lyme disease.
> >
> > We were very close, and he was one of the most loving people I have
> > ever met. Anyone who ever knew him could only say good things about him
> > because he was so much fun to be around.
> >
> > He struggled with the disease but he shouldn't have passed away.
> >
> > Anyone considering this treatment should keep in mind the people who
> > may be left behind.
> >
> > My family and I will never recover from our loss, and we will always
> > think there must have been something we could have done.
> >
> > But my parents did try everything for their son. He lived with them
> > for two years and took him to see a doctor in Phila, bought him any
> > medication no matter the cost, and supported him in everything he wanted
> to
> > try, including the UHT.
> >
> > He had all of us convinced that he would come back better, which is
> > why we didn't stop him.
> >
> > I would like to thank those of you for your kind words to my family,
> > and to the gentleman and his wife for writing about what really happened
> > over there.
> >
> > Please remember that the clinic is not a hospital and does not have
> > adequate facilities or medicatios to treat trauma.
> >
> > My oldest brother thinks that if he had been in the US he could have
> > been saved.
> >
> > Also remember that the drug DNP is a pesticide with very serious
> side
> > effects. How each person's body reacts to such a poison is never
> > predictable.
> >
> > My brother's girlfriend is setting up a website on Lyme disease
> > dedicated to him, which I will post when it is complete.
> >
> > I am also looking into creating a scholarship fund in his name at
> the
> > college he once loved.
> >
> > Please continue your prayers, as I will continue to pray for all who
> > suffer from this devastating disease.
> >
> >
> >
> >
Dear