root canal re-retreatment chances of success?
eatmoreoats
About a year ago I had a root canal re-treatment performed on molar
#3. The original root canal work was done about 8 or 9 years ago. The
re-treatment involved redoing 3 root canals that were infected at the
top, and also performing a root canal on a missed 4th root on the same
tooth. A year later and the xray shows that the roots have not healed
and my endodontist wants to re-re-treat.
My question is this : given that the first re-treatment was
unsuccessful, what are the chances that a re-re-treatment will finally
solve the problem ? Is it generally the case that if a re-treatment
doesn't cure the problem, then a second attempt won't either ? Or are
the attempts independent in the likelihood of success ? The doctor
will be using a slightly different technique on the second try
around. I don't have dental insurance and its quite expensive work,
not to mention years of jaw ache. I'm wondering whether to skip the re-
re-treatment, and put the $ toward an extraction/implant instead.
Thoughts / advice ?
Thanks in advance,
Dom
Steven Bornfeld
I cannot address your specific tooth, but esp. if the second root canal
was done by a good endodontist, the chances of subsequent retreats
failing goes up. Sometimes there is an undiagnosed root fracture or
other insurmountable problem. In any case, this tooth is already a
two-time loser, and unless the endodontist sees a specific problem with
the root canal that can be remedied, I would think long and hard about
going a third round with this tooth.
Steve
eatmoreoats
wrote:
Steve,
Thanks very much for the reply.
-Dom
Jan
ROOT CANALS POSE HEALTH THREAT
AN INTERVIEW WITH
GEORGE MEINIG, D.D.S.
Dr. Meinig brings a most curious perspective to an expose of latent
dangers of root canal therapy - fifty years ago he was one of the
founders of the American Association of Endodontists (root canal
specialists)! So he's filled his share of root canals. And when he
wasn't filling canals himself, he was teaching the technique to
dentists across the country at weekend seminars and clinics. About two
years ago, having recently retired, he decided to read all 1174 pages
of the detailed research of Dr. Weston Price, (D.D.S). Dr. Meinig was
startled and shocked. Here was valid documentation of systemic
illnesses resulting from latent infections lingering in filled roots.
He has since written a book, "Root Canal Cover-Up EXPOSED - Many
Illnesses Result", and is devoting himself to radio, TV, and personal
appearances before groups in an attempt to blow the whistle and alert
the public.
MJ Please explain what the problem is with root canal therapy.
GM First, let me note that my book is based on Dr. Weston Price's
twenty-five years of careful, impeccable research. He led a 60-man
team of researchers whose findings - suppressed until now rank right
up there with the greatest medical discoveries of all time. This is
not the usual medical story of a prolonged search for the difficult-to-
find causative agent of some devastating disease. Rather, it's the
story of how a "cast of millions" (of bacteria) become entrenched
inside the structure of teeth and end up causing the largest number of
diseases ever traced to a single source.
MJ What diseases? Can you give us some examples?
GM Yes, a high percentage of chronic degenerative diseases can
originate from root filled teeth. The most frequent were heart and
circulatory diseases and he found 16 different causative agents for
these. The next most common diseases were those of the joints,
arthritis and rheumatism. In third place - but almost tied for second
- were diseases of the brain and nervous system. After that, any
disease you can name might (and in some cases has) come from root
filled teeth.
Let me tell you about the research itself. Dr. Price undertook his
investigations in 1900. He continued until 1925, and published his
work in two volumes in 1923. In 1915 the National Dental Association
(which changed its name a few years later to The American Dental
Association) was so impressed with his work that they appointed Dr.
Price their first Research Director. His Advisory Board read like a
Who's Who in medicine and dentistry for that era. They represented the
fields of bacteriology, pathology, rheumatology, surgery, chemistry,
and cardiology.
At one point in his writings Dr. Price made this observation: "Dr.
Frank Billings (M.D.), probably more than any other American
internist, is due credit for the early recognition of the importance
of streptococcal focal infections in systemic involvements."
What's really unfortunate here is that very valuable information was
covered up and totally buried some 70 years ago by a minority group of
autocratic doctors who just didn't believe or couldn't grasp - the
focal infection theory.
MJ What is the "focal infection" theory?
GM This states that germs from a central focal infection - such as
teeth, teeth roots, inflamed gum tissues, or maybe tonsils -
metastasize to hearts, eyes, lungs, kidneys, or other organs, glands
and tissues, establishing new areas of the same infection. Hardly
theory any more, this has been proven and demonstrated many times
over. It's 100% accepted today. But it was revolutionary thinking
during World War I days, and the early 1920's!
Today, both patients and physicians have been "brain washed" to think
that infections are less serious because we now have antibiotics.
Well, yes and no. In the case of root-filled teeth, the no longer-
living tooth lacks a blood supply to its interior. So circulating
antibiotics don't faze the bacteria living there because they can't
get at them.
MJ You're assuming that ALL root-filled teeth harbor bacteria and/or
other infective agents?
GM Yes. No matter what material or technique is used - and this is
just as true today - the root filling shrinks minutely, perhaps
microscopically. Further and this is key - the bulk of solid appearing
teeth, called the dentin, actually consists of miles of tiny tubules.
Microscopic organisms lurking in the maze of tubules simply migrate
into the interior of the tooth and set up housekeeping. A filled root
seems to be a favorite spot to start a new colony.
One of the things that makes this difficult to understand is that
large, relatively harmless bacteria common to the mouth, change and
adapt to new conditions. They shrink in size to fit the cramped
quarters and even learn how to exist (and thrive!) on very little
food. Those that need oxygen mutate and become able to get along
without it. In the process of adaptation these formerly friendly
"normal" organisms become pathogenic (capable of producing disease)
and more virulent (stronger) and they produce much more potent
toxins.
Today's bacteriologists are confirming the discoveries of the Price
team of bacteriologists. Both isolated in root canals the same strains
of streptococcus, staphylococcus and spirochetes.
MJ Is everyone who has ever had a root canal filled made ill by it?
GM No. We believe now that every root canal filling does leak and
bacteria do invade the structure. But the variable factor is the
strength of the person's immune system. Some healthy people are able
to control the germs that escape from their teeth into other areas of
the body. We think this happens because their immune system
lymphocytes (white blood cells) and other disease fighters aren't
constantly compromised by other ailments. In other words, they are
able to prevent those new colonies from taking hold in other tissues
throughout the body. But over time, most people with root filled teeth
do seem to develop some kinds of systemic symptoms they didn't have
before.
MJ It's really difficult to grasp that bacteria are imbedded deep in
the structure of seemingly-hard, solid looking teeth.
GM I know. Physicians and dentists have that same problem, too. You
really have to visualize the tooth structure - all of those
microscopic tubules running through the dentin. In a healthy tooth,
those tubules transport a fluid that carries nourishment to the
inside. For perspective, if the tubules of a front single-root tooth,
were stretched out on the ground they'd stretch for three miles!
A root filled tooth no longer has any fluid circulating through it,
but the maze of tubules remains. The anaerobic bacteria that live
there seem remarkably safe from antibiotics. The bacteria can migrate
out into surrounding tissue where they can "hitch hike" to other
locations in the body via the bloodstream. The new location can be any
organ or gland or tissue, and the new colony will be the next focus of
infection in a body plagued by recurrent or chronic infections.
All of the "building up" done to try to enhance the patient's ability
to fight infections - to strengthen their immune system - is only a
holding action. Many patients won't be well until the source of
infection - the root canal tooth - is removed.
MJ I don't doubt what you're saying, but can you tell us more about
how Dr. Price could be sure that arthritis or other systemic
conditions and illnesses really originated in the teeth - or in a
single tooth?
GM Yes. Many investigations start with the researcher just being
curious about something - and then being scientifically careful enough
to discover an answer, and then prove it's so, many times over. Dr.
Price's first case is very well documented. He removed an infected
tooth from a woman who suffered from severe arthritis. As soon as he
finished with the patient, he implanted the tooth beneath the skin of
a healthy rabbit. Within 48 hours the rabbit was crippled with
arthritis!
Further, once the tooth was removed the patient's arthritis improved
dramatically. This clearly suggested that the presence of the infected
tooth was a causative agent for both that patient's and the rabbit's -
arthritis.
[Editor's Note - Here's the story of that first patient from Dr.
Meinig's book: "(Dr. Price) had a sense that, even when (root canal
therapy) appeared successful, teeth containing root fillings remained
infected. That thought kept prying on his mind, haunting him each time
a patient consulted him for relief from some severe debilitating
disease for which the medical profession could find no answer. Then
one day while treating a woman who had been confined to a wheelchair
for six years from severe arthritis, he recalled how bacterial
cultures were taken from patients who were ill and then inoculated
into animals in an effort to reproduce the disease and test the
effectiveness of drugs on the disease.
With this thought in mind, although her (root filled) tooth looked
fine, he advised this arthritic patient, to have it extracted. He told
her he was going to find out what it was about this root filled tooth
that was responsible for her suffering. "All dentists know that
sometimes arthritis and other illnesses clear up if bad teeth are
extracted. However, in this case, all of her teeth appeared in
satisfactory condition and the one containing this rootcanal filling
showed no evidence or symptoms of infection. Besides, it looked normal
on x-ray pictures.
"Immediately after Dr. Price extracted the tooth he dismissed the
patient and embedded her tooth under the skin of a rabbit. In two days
the rabbit developed the same kind of crippling arthritis as the
patient - and in ten days it died.
"..The patient made a successful recovery after the tooth's removal!
She could then walk without a cane and could even do fine needlework
again. That success led Dr. Price to advise other patients, afflicted
with a wide variety of treatment defying illnesses, to have any root
filled teeth out."]
In the years that followed, he repeated this procedure many hundreds
of times. He later implanted only a portion of the tooth to see if
that produced the same results. It did. He then dried the tooth,
ground it into powder and injected a tiny bit into several rabbits.
Same results, this time producing the same symptoms in multiple
animals.
Dr. Price eventually grew cultures of the bacteria and injected them
into the animals. Then he went a step further. He put the solution
containing the bacteria through a filter small enough to catch the
bacteria. So when he injected the resulting liquid it was free of any
infecting bacteria. Did the test animals develop the illness? Yes. The
only explanation was that the liquid had to contain toxins from the
bacteria, and the toxins were also capable of causing disease.
Dr. Price became curious about which was the more potent infective
agent, the bacteria or the toxin. He repeated that last experiment,
injecting half the animals with the toxin-containing liquid and half
of them with the bacteria from the filter. Both groups became ill, but
the group injected with the toxins got sicker and died sooner than the
bacteria injected animals.
MJ That's amazing. Did the rabbits always develop the same disease the
patient had?
GM Mostly, yes. If the patient had heart disease the rabbit got heart
disease. If the patient had kidney disease the rabbit got kidney
disease, and so on. Only occasionally did a rabbit develop a different
disease - and then the pathology would be quite similar, in a
different location.
MJ If extraction proves necessary for anyone reading this, do you want
to summarize what's special about the extraction technique?
GM Just pulling the tooth is not enough when removal proves necessary.
Dr. Price found bacteria in the tissues and bone just adjacent to the
tooth's root. So we now recommend slow-speed drilling with a burr, to
remove one millimeter of the entire bony socket. The purpose is to
remove the periodontal ligament (which is always infected with toxins
produced by streptococcus bacteria living in the dentin tubules) and
the first millimeter of bone that lines the socket (which is usually
infected).
There's a whole protocol involved, including irrigating with sterile
saline to assure removal of the contaminated bone chips, and treating
the socket to stimulate and encourage infection-free healing. I
describe the procedure in detail, step by step, in my book [pages 185
and 186].
MJ Perhaps we should back up and talk about oral health - to PREVENT
needing an extraction. Caries or inflamed gums seem much more common
than root canals. Do they pose any threat?
GM Yes, they absolutely do. But let me point out that we can't talk
about oral health apart from total health. The problem is that
patients and dentists alike haven't come around to seeing that dental
caries reflect systemic - meaning "whole body" - illness. Dentists
have learned to restore teeth so expertly that both they and their
patients have come to regard tooth decay as a trivial matter. It
isn't.
Small cavities too often become big cavities. Big cavities too often
lead to further destruction and the eventual need for root canal
treatment.
MJ Then talk to us about prevention.
GM The only scientific way to prevent tooth decay is through diet and
nutrition. Dr. Ralph Steinman did some outstanding, landmark research
at Loma Linda University. He injected a glucose solution into mice -
into their bodies, so the glucose didn't even touch their teeth. Then
he observed the teeth for any changes. What he found was truly
astonishing. The glucose reversed the normal flow of fluid in the
dentin tubules, resulting in all of the test animals developing severe
tooth decay! Dr. Steinman demonstrated dramatically what I said a
minute ago: Dental caries reflect systemic illness.
Let's take a closer look to see how this might happen. Once a tooth
gets infected and the cavity gets into the nerve and blood vessels,
bacteria find their way into those tiny tubules of the dentin. Then no
matter what we do by way of treatment, we're never going to completely
eradicate the bacteria hiding in the miles of tubules. In time the
bacteria can migrate through lateral canals into the surrounding bony
socket that supports the tooth. Now the host not only has a cavity in
a tooth, plus an underlying infection of supporting tissue to deal
with, but the bacteria also exude potent systemic toxins. These toxins
circulate throughout the body triggering activity by the immune system
- and probably causing the host to feel less well. This host response
can vary from just dragging around and feeling less energetic, to
overt illness - of almost any kind. Certainly, such a person will be
more vulnerable to whatever "bugs" are going around, because his/her
body is already under constant challenge and the immune system
continues to be "turned on" by either the infective agent or its
toxins - or both.
MJ What a fascinating concept. Can you tell us more about the
protective nutrition you mentioned?
GM Yes. Dr. Price traveled all over the world doing his research on
primitive peoples who still lived in their native ways. He found
fourteen cultural pockets scattered all over the globe where the
natives had no access to "civilization" - and ate no refined foods.
Dr. Price studied their diets carefully. He found they varied greatly,
but the one thing they had in common was that they ate whole,
unrefined foods. With absolutely no access to tooth brushes, floss,
fluoridated water or tooth paste, the primitive peoples studied were
almost 100% free of tooth decay. Further - and not unrelated - they
were also almost 100% free of all the degenerative diseases we suffer
- problems with the heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, joints, skin
(allergies), and the whole gamut of illnesses that plague Mankind. No
one food proved to be magic as a preventive food. I believe we can
thrive best by eating a wide variety of whole foods.
MJ Amazing. So by "diet and nutrition" for oral (and total) health you
meant eating a pretty basic diet of whole foods?
GM Exactly. And no sugar or white flour. These are (and always have
been) the first culprits. Tragically, when the primitives were
introduced to sugar and white flour their superior level of health
deteriorated rapidly. This has been demonstrated time and again.
During the last sixty or more years we have added in increasing
amounts, highly refined and fabricated cereals and boxed mixes of all
kinds, soft drinks, refined vegetable oils and a whole host of other
foodless "foods". It is also during those same years that we as a
nation have installed more and more root canal fillings - and
degenerative diseases have become rampant. I believe - and Dr. Price
certainly proved to my satisfaction - that these simultaneous factors
are NOT coincidences.
MJ I certainly understand what you are saying. But I'm still a little
shocked to talk with a dentist who doesn't stress oral hygiene.
GM Well, I'm not against oral hygiene. Of course, hygiene practices
are preventive, and help minimize the destructive effect of our
"civilized", refined diet. But the real issue is still diet. The
natives Dr. Price tracked down and studied weren't free of cavities,
inflamed gums, and degenerative diseases because they had better tooth
brushes!
It's so easy to lose sight of the significance of what Dr. Price
discovered. We tend to sweep it under the rug - we'd actually prefer
to hear that if we would just brush better, longer, or more often, we
too could be free of dental problems.
Certainly, part of the purpose of my book is to stimulate dental
research into finding a way to sterilize dentin tubules. Only then can
dentists really learn to save teeth for a lifetime. But the bottom
line remains: A primitive diet of whole unrefined foods is the only
thing that has been found to actually prevent both tooth decay and
degenerative diseases.
eatmoreoats
>
> read more »
What are the best alternatives to root canal therapy ? Implants ?
Bridges ?
Thanks
Dartos
D
Dartos
> What are the best alternatives to root canal therapy ? Implants ?
> Bridges ?
> Thanks
Depends upon the individual case.
Bridges are faster, less invasive, slightly less expensive, and
have a long history of success. The dentist does have to cut
on the adjacent teeth, and the appliance needs special care to
keep things clean under the false tooth after cementation.
Implants do not involve any cutting on neighboring teeth, allow
normal brushing and flossing, and are becoming the first choice
of treatment in many cases.
BTW, get your dental advice from licensed professionals. Some
smd posters are not experts in dental treatment.
;-)
D
Jan
None don't ever get a root canal, it is the very worse treatment you
can get. Damge to your whole body. Better to have the tooth pulled.