Iatrogenic causes of TMJ Disorders
Clayburn
disorders. Can anyone provide me with articles on the issue? I have
several related to 4-bicuspid extraction, and a few on anesthesia. I
was hoping I could find some research on orthodontic head gear and TMJ
disorders. No luck yet.
Any help would be appreciated.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Here's the problem--evidence that orthodontic treatment of any kind on
children will cause so-called "TMJ problems" later is very spotty, and
controversial. Anesthesia can set up a muscle spasm for sure, but is
unlikely in the extreme to cause structural damage in any but the most
extreme cases. So case studies for iatrogenesis are isolated, and
evidence of a strong link are hard to find--because they haven't been
established.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Dartos
Without having a complete and thorough statistical analysis, I would
estimate the cases of 'TMJ' to be pretty equally spread through the
general population. I see lots of cases with no history of ortho.
I see lots of cases that have had ortho. I see occasional cases after
some type of trauma. Almost all of them get a lot better when you
reduce the clenching with an NTI.
My thoughts are that many people have clenching disorders that may
be at a sub clinical level (IOW's they do not manifest a great deal
of symptoms that the patient is aware of). Toss in stress, injury,
or 'something' to upset the fragile balance, and 'TMJ' (everyone has
two TMJ's unless surgically altered <G>) 'suddenly' appears.
The new factor did not directly cause 'TMJ', it merely pushed
things past the asymptomatic level of dysfunction.
My 2�
D
Amatus Cremona
I agree that you do not get so called "TMJ" from orthodontics. Does not
happen.
BTW "TMJ" is the name a joint, not a disease.
What Law Firm is the research for anyway?
--
/
Amatus
/
"Dartos" <tuthj...@myturbonet.com> wrote in message
news:12471671...@news.newsville.com...
The Webby
<494e6e6a-b986-4b27...@h18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Clayburn <clay...@gmail.com> wrote:
I know the meaning of the word "iatrogenic" yet I must ask you to
explain the use of the word as you are in your posts from July.
Although something is iatrogenic, this does not address the root cause
of such an outcome. It seems to me that you are looking for articles
that would explain how an iatroepidemic results in the condition you
have described as "TMJ".
In other words, if you are looking for articles to support the idea that
"head gear" causes "TMJ disorders", you must decide if you are searching
for the systematic cause of this "condition" or if it is simply a random
and undesired outome for which carelessness might be the "cause".
Another poster asked, "What Law Firm is the research for anyway?" The
reason for the question is not that he was being sarcastic. He was
simply pointing out what seemed obvious to him. It seems obvious to me
too that someone is looking for something to "prove" fault rather than
to be teaching material that enhances understanding as to ... anything
at all really.
If you want to make the point that a certain dentist did something
*wrong* which in turn caused "TMJ" or "TMJ disorders", you first need a
much better understanding of what "TMJ"/"TMJ disorders" actually is and
is not. At that point, you should try to learn about iatroepidemics and
why what you seem to be looking for by the nature of your very question
is exactly that: you want evidence that head gear used in orthodontics
causes "TMJ and or "TMJ disorders". That would be an iatroepidemic. In
that case, you probably won't have the legal outcome you are hoping for.
Webby
vaughn
"The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tmjiatroepidemic-8E...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com...
Hello Webby. Long time no hear (or here).
How is life in the desert and how are your grandmunchkins?
Vaughn
The Webby
In article
<tmjiatroepidemic-8E...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com
>,
The Webby <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote:
In no way did I intend for my comments to represent a personal opinion
regarding the general use of "head gear" in orthodontics or what
constitutes a proper informed consent for such treatment. The main
purpose of my post was to make notation that the original poster
*seemed* less than well-informed about "the TMJ" and conditions
affecting the joint. The comments made by Dartos concerning "clenching
disorders" is more than likely the "TMJ" that the original poster was
referring to but unless and until the poster comes back to clarify what
he was intending by his post ... we will be left to draw our own
conclusions from the hints left behind!
Iatroepidemics are not thought to be caused by negligence or
carelessness; nor are they accidental in nature. They are by all
accounts, quite the opposite. And so, in the case of this thread's
question concerning "head gear" in orthodontics as a cause for "TMJ
disorders", the first question to the speaker (the original poster)
*must* be: What are the TMJ disorders which concern you? You can not
expect a good answer unless you ask a good question.
"Only when the questions become more important than the answers will the
solutions emerge" ... from "Mystere", Cirque du Soleil
Webby
The Webby
"vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
Hey ....!!!!!!! How great to see your post, Vaughn!!!
Life in the desert is very good! And the grandmunckins (adorable word)
are growing into interesting phases of childhood development ...
something I **know** you know all about!!!!
It's seems that time goes by so quickly yet the beauty of smd is that
time sort of stands still for a moment when we all realize that some of
us have been out of touch for a little while ... but like old friends,
the gap in time never seems to mean a thing!
Please ... how are your grandmuchkins and all the family?? I sure wish I
could reduce the elevation of this place where I live so you two could
come for a visit sometime. But there seems no way I can achieve that
dream except that we can meet up in the Bay Area at some point!!
Webby
Happy Oyster
Howdy!
Aribert
--
**** WARNING **** The web-hoster Globat.com steals money from your
credit card account. If you are a customer of Globat.com, never give
them any credit card information. If you can't erase the information,
then do delete the old card and get a new one! **** WARNING ****
The Webby
Happy Oyster <happy....@ariplex.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:57:46 -0700, The Webby <tmjiatro...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <h80sgg$cai$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >> news:tmjiatroepidemic-8E...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.co
> >> m..
> >> Hello Webby. Long time no hear (or here).
> >It's seems that time goes by so quickly yet the beauty of smd is that
> >time sort of stands still for a moment when we all realize that some of
> >us have been out of touch for a little while ... but like old friends,
> >the gap in time never seems to mean a thing!
> >Webby
>
> Howdy!
>
> Aribert
And "Howdy!" to you too, Aribert!!
W. :-)
vaughn
>
> Please ... how are your grandmuchkins and all the family??
Doing good. I sent you pix from my new e-mail account.
> I sure wish I
> could reduce the elevation of this place where I live so you two could
> come for a visit sometime.
As I recall Lost Wages is only at about 2000 feet. Margaret can actually
spend a night or two at that altitude, though nighttime supplimental O2 is
better. The problem is that any method of getting to LV (car or airline)
involves passing through higher altitudes so we still have to spend the
bucks to rent the portable O2 concentrator.
>But there seems no way I can achieve that
> dream except that we can meet up in the Bay Area at some point!!
Bay area is good. We have tentative plans to be there for Christmas.
Vaughn
The Webby
"vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
> "The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:tmjiatroepidemic-28...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com..
> .
> >
> > Please ... how are your grandmuchkins and all the family??
>
> Doing good. I sent you pix from my new e-mail account.
The pics arrived and made my day!!! Thanks so much! And I also sent
you some in return to your new account.
>
> > I sure wish I
> > could reduce the elevation of this place where I live so you two could
> > come for a visit sometime.
>
> As I recall Lost Wages is only at about 2000 feet. Margaret can actually
> spend a night or two at that altitude, though nighttime supplimental O2 is
> better. The problem is that any method of getting to LV (car or airline)
> involves passing through higher altitudes so we still have to spend the
> bucks to rent the portable O2 concentrator.
Yes, the Lost Wages vicinity is a little bit over 2000 ... the place
where the steel birds come and go is a bit higher; 2178, and out in my
neck of the cactus it is about 2350 or so. So rather than risk your
wages I think we should get another hopeful plan.
>
> >But there seems no way I can achieve that
> > dream except that we can meet up in the Bay Area at some point!!
>
> Bay area is good. We have tentative plans to be there for Christmas.
When you have a good idea of your dates, let me know. It just might be
workable!!! Wouldn't that be fabulous??? :-)
>
> Vaughn
Webby
The Webby
"vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
Your "Organization" line just caught my eye ... ;-)
Webby
vaughn
> Your "Organization" line just caught my eye ... ;-)
Hmmm..."Organization: A noiseless patient Spider".
Actually that's not my line. Must have been auto added by
eternal-september.org. But cute!
By the way...
If anyone is still using GoogleGroups to read Usenet, get thee to
eternal-september.org and register for free access. You will then need to
configure your news reader (probably Outlook Express; configuring it is a
job so simple that even I can do it) When you are done, you will have much
faster access, much less garbage on your screen and 90% less spam. Also,
with just a little bit more effort, you will be able to set filters in OE to
reduce the noise level and make your SMD experience much more pleasent..
Vaughn
The Webby
"vaughn" <vaughnsimo...@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote:
> "The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:tmjiatroepidemic-A7...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com..
> .
> > Your "Organization" line just caught my eye ... ;-)
>
> Hmmm..."Organization: A noiseless patient Spider".
This has to be "one of those" events that I don't know whether it is
best described as that of serendipity, irony, coincidence, metaphoric
ambiguity, or ... just a bit of artificial intelligence subtly; or
perhaps obviously if your eyes are open, plugged into the vastness of
it "all" by eternal-september.org .
An auto-generator with AI potential ... sounds possible enough to me.
But what the .org *probably* didn't "know" is that inside "that book" on
pages 30 and 31, there is something to be learned about the worlds of
the spider and the patient and about the virtue of being patient while
observing and learning about the worlds around "them" ...
>
> Actually that's not my line. Must have been auto added by
> eternal-september.org. But cute!
Absolutely ... and better auto-generated timing could not have been ...
"better" ... ;-)
>
> By the way...
>
> If anyone is still using GoogleGroups to read Usenet, get thee to
> eternal-september.org and register for free access. You will then need to
> configure your news reader (probably Outlook Express; configuring it is a
> job so simple that even I can do it) When you are done, you will have much
> faster access, much less garbage on your screen and 90% less spam. Also,
> with just a little bit more effort, you will be able to set filters in OE to
> reduce the noise level and make your SMD experience much more pleasent..
>
> Vaughn
I still have the Mac. And I still use my ISP for usenet but it is
running painfully slow these past couple days and I don't know why that
is. I'm looking for an alternative and will check into the one you've
suggested ... and you should take "that book" off your shelf and see how
"funny-odd" this little bit of the thread has become. :::-))) I love a
good "mystery" even when it has a simple answer because it encourages
"thinking out of the box".
Webby ... with a Spider on her web ...
Dartos
> I still have the Mac. And I still use my ISP for usenet but it is
> running painfully slow these past couple days and I don't know why that
> is. I'm looking for an alternative and will check into the one you've
> suggested ... and you should take "that book" off your shelf and see how
> "funny-odd" this little bit of the thread has become. :::-))) I love a
> good "mystery" even when it has a simple answer because it encourages
> "thinking out of the box".
>
> Webby ... with a Spider on her web ...
Just wanted to add a 'hello'. Our kids are 28, 25, & 23. No gks to
date however (only one is married, so that isn't all bad <G>).
BTW, as of today, I now have *over* 30 years in private practice! Never
would have thought that would have arrived so fast.
:-)
D
The Webby
Dartos <tuthj...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
Hi there, D!! Good to hear from you ... I was hoping you'd be by with a
little update on your adventures. Can't believe your kids have grown up
... just like that!!! Wow. And as for your private practice; over 30
years ... congratulations!!!
Now let me add one more amazing speed and time factor into it all:
You've spent about one-half of that time in good ole smd!! Now that is
**truly eye opening**!!! And I don't think you look a day older ... ;-)
Webby :-)
Dartos
>>Just wanted to add a 'hello'. Our kids are 28, 25, & 23. No gks to
>>date however (only one is married, so that isn't all bad <G>).
>>
>>BTW, as of today, I now have *over* 30 years in private practice! Never
>>would have thought that would have arrived so fast.
>>
>>:-)
>>D
>
>
> Hi there, D!! Good to hear from you ... I was hoping you'd be by with a
> little update on your adventures. Can't believe your kids have grown up
> ... just like that!!! Wow. And as for your private practice; over 30
> years ... congratulations!!!
>
> Now let me add one more amazing speed and time factor into it all:
> You've spent about one-half of that time in good ole smd!! Now that is
> **truly eye opening**!!! And I don't think you look a day older ... ;-)
>
> Webby :-)
1995? with a Mac Plus, a 20 meg hard drive, and a slow dial-up modem.
I think I bought the thing in December 1994 and it took me a little
while to find anything on the internet that was interesting.
I had a lady call the office about a post I made in *2003* that she
somehow interpreted as being pro-sargenti (which I have never advocated,
nor used the technique or the sealer). Makes me think I should
write a book....or not <VBG>.
All the best,
D
Amatus Cremona
--
::::
Amatus Cremona
;;;;;;
"Dartos" <tuthj...@myturbonet.com> wrote in message
news:12524386...@news.newsville.com...
Dartos
Amatus Cremona wrote:
> I am 13 months without owning a practice.
>
How's everything working out?
D
Amatus Cremona
I have to take over the practice. I did the eulogy last week.
--
::::
ac
;;;;;;
"Dartos" <tuthj...@myturbonet.com> wrote in message
news:12530955...@news.newsville.com...
Dartos
Congratulations or regrets (use whatever fits best <G>)
D
Amatus Cremona
--
::::
ac;;;;;;
"New B." <new...@bix.nex> wrote in message
news:a7j4b51hdlhu3eksd...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:57:19 -0400, "Amatus Cremona"
> <Nic...@sottovoce.com> wrote:
>
>>My vacation is over.
>>
>>I have to take over the practice. I did the eulogy last week.
>
> Sorry to hear that.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -newb
Steven Bornfeld
> I lost a good friend.
>
Steve
The Webby
"Amatus Cremona" <Nic...@sottovoce.com> wrote:
> My vacation is over.
>
> I have to take over the practice. I did the eulogy last week.
Looks like there's lots to catch up on.
Best regards,
Webby
Steven Bornfeld
L'Shana Tovah!
Steve
The Webby
Steven Bornfeld <dentalt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
And to you as well!!
Webby
Amatus Cremona
AC
"The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tmjiatroepidemic-6D...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com...
The Webby
W.
In article <bjRxm.221860$sC1.1...@newsfe17.iad>,
The Webby
W.
In article <bjRxm.221860$sC1.1...@newsfe17.iad>,
"Amatus Cremona" <arcus@martole.e..com> wrote:
Amatus Cremona
--
::::
Amatus Cremona
;;;;;;
"The Webby" <tmjiatro...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tmjiatroepidemic-9D...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com...