Stellar Lipid Results -- and a Question
zob
last October (2007) , I got serious about being proactive in improving
my health and doing all that I can to improve my chances for remaining
free of further CAD incidents.
This is what I've been doing in the past few months:
Medications (relating to cholesterol):
I was put on 210 mg Lipitor (to lower LDL) and 145 mg Tricor (to
lower triglycerides) , as well as 1000 mg of Niaspan (to raise HDL).
Nutrition:
I've followed my cardiologist's recommended heart-healthy diet (under
50 mg fat daily, less than 15 mg saturated fat, no simple starches or
sugar, plenty of low-glycemic fruit and berries, lots of non-starchy
vegetables, whole grain cereals and breads and reasonable portions of
fish and skinless chicken -- no red meat). So far I have lost 52
pounds since October with just 38 more pounds to go to reach my
recommended BMI. (Male, 6'1", I've gone from 270 to 218 pounds).
Exercise:
I've also been exercising as much as possible. A 1998 stroke made it
difficult for me to even walk fast or do aerobic type exercises, so I
committed to a new round of physical therapy with a goal of being
able to walk better to improve my ability to exercise. This PT has
just ended, and I now do 30 minutes of reasonable home exercises each
day.
The bottom line of all this is ... I expected an improvement with this
combination of changes but I was downright shocked at the stellar
results in 5 months. I had read that nutrition alone can only lower
cholesterol a certain %, same with the statins and fenofibrates. I'm
56 years old, and my cholesterol has *never* been anywhere near this
low in my entire adult life; it has literally been cut in half in 5
months. This was completely unexpected. Ironically, the first set
of readings that follow were taken just a couple of weeks before my
ACS incident and stent insertions:
10/2007 3/2008
Total Cholesterol: 234 117
HDL Cholesterol: 35 38
LDL Cholesterol: 122 56
LDL/HDL Ratio: 3.6 1.5
VLDL Cholesterol: 77 23
Triglycerides: 359 117
CRP was 2.1 ("average") on the last test -- not measured on the first
one.
Obviously I'm very excited about these results, and psychologically
feel great about my health future now that I'm on the right track. But
one question is bugging me, and I realize that this may be the
proverbial $64,000 question: I've been a bit surprised that my HDL
has not risen more than the 3 points that it has, even though the
LDL/HDL ratio has improved tremendously. What else can I do that I'm
not doing already to improve the HDL? Exercise, Niaspan, diet haven't
seemed to help much. The more I read, the more I'm convinced that
the scrubbing effect of the HDL may be the ultimate key to my
continued cardiovascular health and ultimate longevity. (I've been
wondering if the statins or fenofibrates also tend to minimize HDL
along with LDL). I realize there is no magic bullet, but I'd
appreciate any ideas about anything else -- or any combination of
things -- that I could try to get that HDL higher. Or even any
suggested reading on the subject.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Zob
zob
> I was put on 210 mg Lipitor
(sorry, typo -- that should read, "20 mg of Lipitor.")
Zob
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
optimally more than 50 mg/dL in many people until all the black fat
(VAT) is gone:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/BlackFat
Therefore, it remains smarter to eat less, down to the right amount:
Here is a simple parable given in hopes of promoting understanding:
But of course, what good is a high HDL if you still end up losing your
soul:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
You do not have much longer, dear neighbor Zob:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Prophecy
May you wisely choose to repent soon by publicly declaring with your
mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
newsreader
Like you, I cut my TC in half after my 9/30/07 attack & angio stents.
Unlike you, by HDL went down, from 38 to 30 IIRC. Since learning that in
December, I started adding more specific **good** fat containing foods
as per suggestions from nurses & nutritionists.
I now eat a fair amount of: Walnuts, Avocados, freshly ground Flax seed,
grape juice, high cocoa dark chocolate in moderation, pecans, and even
some peanut butter. Smart Balance brand fake butter was also
recommended, and it tastes pretty decent. Of all the above, I think
Avocados offer the most benefit, and certainly the most satisfaction,
for me anyway.
I should have my latest blood work results midweek to see if this has
made a difference.
How do you exercise at home? I invested in a recumbent bike recently,
which is a great machine for folks who don't handle the impact of
treadmill usage well. This thing can really get my heart rate up quickly
with the variable resistance programs.
I still do most of my exercise on a treadmill, mostly warm up on the bike.
Keep up the good work,
David in MD
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Way to go Zob! Stellar performance.
Actually his low HDL < 50 mg/dl remains a concern.
> Like you, I cut my TC in half after my 9/30/07 attack & angio stents.
> Unlike you, by HDL went down, from 38 to 30 IIRC.
Suboptimal.
> Since learning that in
> December, I started adding more specific **good** fat containing foods
> as per suggestions from nurses & nutritionists.
This will not remove the black fat (VAT) that you have as evident by
your low HDL.
> I now eat a fair amount of: Walnuts, Avocados, freshly ground Flax seed,
> grape juice, high cocoa dark chocolate in moderation, pecans, and even
> some peanut butter. Smart Balance brand fake butter was also
> recommended, and it tastes pretty decent. Of all the above, I think
> Avocados offer the most benefit, and certainly the most satisfaction,
> for me anyway.
When something makes one full thereby killing the hunger, one should
be dissatisfied rather than satisfied. This is because it is only
when we are hungry that our bodies get rid of the VAT. There is only
one exercise that burns the black fat and that is the exercise your
stomach does when it sings and laughs out loud.
May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a
blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus
Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD
Hunger is wonderful:
It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.
Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy
of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish ( gone !!! )
forever ...
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
... gone:
http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E
Such will be the demise of all those who refuse to know **and** love
the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21
A simple parable for the wise and discerning:
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier
irwin...@erols.com
interrupted and spewed:
> newsreader wrote:
>
> > Way to go Zob! Stellar performance.
>
> Actually his low HDL < 50 mg/dl remains a concern.
>
> > Like you, I cut my TC in half after my 9/30/07 attack & angio stents.
> > Unlike you, by HDL went down, from 38 to 30 IIRC.
>
> Suboptimal.
>
Screw you Chung. I know what my numbers are, and what they should be.
I don't want your bullshit attached to my reply to a fellow sufferer.
You really are a waste of ectoplasm.
Please shrivel up & drift away
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
yama...@aol.com
Hi Zob. I'm a Board Certified Internist. You did wonderfully well with
what you've done so far. As for improving your HDL, possibly crestor
instead of lipitor. It theoretically can increase HDL. Also consider
omega 3 fish oils and a diet high in salmon. Sometimes it's just
genetics, and hard to change. I am really impressed with the changes
you've made. You must feel wonderful. I'd recommend adding some gentle
yoga or some meditation to your other lifestyle changes.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Michael F. Poellot
What's your point here, Chung ? Yamantaka provides valuable advice
-- and you are mocking him.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/CrazySockPuppet
> >
> > of
> >
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Frustratedsatan
>
> What's your point here, Chung ?
Rebuking satan.
> Yamantaka provides valuable advice
As if satan could provide anything valuable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamantaka
> -- and you are mocking him.
Rebuking is not mocking:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Rebukesatan
Bottom line:
You are pathologically untruthful.
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForPoellot
J666
(in message <k97fv318dpggcsobt...@4ax.com>):
Be prepared to be convicted and prayed for by Chung - you will be entering a
very intelligent and thinking group of people. The goal is to become a
member of the elite group of sockpuppets of Satan.
Michael F. Poellot
Chung convicted me last year and predicted that I won't have much
longer :-) He also prays for my perishing soul.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
J666
(in message
<60633a93-940b-4323...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>):
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForPoellot
Congratulations Poellot. You are now in a group of wonderful and thinking
and intelligent people.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Pramesh Rutaji
Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office. Niacin also improves
cholesterol quality typically increasing LDL particle size to more
healthy levels. One needs a VAP test to determine particle size and sub
fractions. Not eating enough fat, particularly saturated fat, will keep
your HDL low. Your total cholesterol is too low at this point. Optimum
according to the life extension foundation is between 180-200. Lower
than 180 and other causes of mortality increase. Above 200 and other
cause of mortality increase but in this case it looks like one needs to
get well above 240 total, perhaps closer to 300. Anything with trans
fats will lower HDL and decrease LDL particle size and often whole grain
products use trans fats. I would avoid processed foods like that an
decrease my consumption of grains because evolutionary wise, man has
only had 10,000 years to adapt genetically to grains and that is far too
short a time. I would also work to get more fat in the diet as that
will increase your HDL numbers. I would eat some read meat.
Have you had a VAP test, homocysteine test, and checked thyroid which
can increase cholesterol numbers?
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297ton...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
Don Kirkman
<tivdv3dnmm7vfunk1...@4ax.com>:
>After my bout with ACS and resulting angioplasty/3 stent insertions
>last October (2007) , I got serious about being proactive in improving
>my health and doing all that I can to improve my chances for remaining
>free of further CAD incidents.
>
>This is what I've been doing in the past few months:
>Medications (relating to cholesterol):
> I was put on 210 mg Lipitor (to lower LDL) and 145 mg Tricor (to
>lower triglycerides) , as well as 1000 mg of Niaspan (to raise HDL).
>Nutrition:
> I've followed my cardiologist's recommended heart-healthy diet . . .
>Exercise:
> I've also been exercising as much as possible.
>The bottom line of all this is ... I expected an improvement with this
Congratulations and two "attaboys," Zob. Great readings and a very fast
adjustment! Your results and numbers profile is similar to mine, although my
HDL may be just a tad higher. My risk factor is also similar to yours--now--and
had been well above average when I first started my much longer treatment
program. Continue on in good health!
Don Kirkman
<80a8134a-c331-41ae...@a22g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:
>newsreader wrote:
>>
>> Way to go Zob! Stellar performance.
>
>Actually his low HDL < 50 mg/dl remains a concern.
Not nearly the concern it would be if his risk factor were in mid-range instead
of as low as it is.
>> Like you, I cut my TC in half after my 9/30/07 attack & angio stents.
>> Unlike you, by HDL went down, from 38 to 30 IIRC.
>Suboptimal.
But not nearly as bad as it would be for someone with a normal risk factor.
>> Since learning that in
>> December, I started adding more specific **good** fat containing foods
>> as per suggestions from nurses & nutritionists.
>This will not remove the black fat (VAT) that you have as evident by
>your low HDL.
Since there is no such thing as "black fat" this should not be a concern for any
of us patients. :-). You could counter this assertion by citing a
peer-reviewed study establishing "black fat" as a medical issue.
>> I now eat a fair amount of: Walnuts, Avocados, freshly ground Flax seed,
>> grape juice, high cocoa dark chocolate in moderation, pecans, and even
>> some peanut butter. Smart Balance brand fake butter was also
>> recommended, and it tastes pretty decent. Of all the above, I think
>> Avocados offer the most benefit, and certainly the most satisfaction,
>> for me anyway.
>When something makes one full thereby killing the hunger, one should
>be dissatisfied rather than satisfied. This is because it is only
>when we are hungry that our bodies get rid of the VAT. There is only
>one exercise that burns the black fat and that is the exercise your
>stomach does when it sings and laughs out loud.
Publish or cite some science that supports anything in this paragraph.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Don Kirkman
<ft8d8...@news1.newsguy.com>:
>zob wrote:
>> After my bout with ACS and resulting angioplasty/3 stent insertions
>> last October (2007) , I got serious about being proactive in improving
>> my health and doing all that I can to improve my chances for remaining
>> free of further CAD incidents.
>> This is what I've been doing in the past few months:
>> Medications (relating to cholesterol):
>> I was put on 210 mg Lipitor (to lower LDL) and 145 mg Tricor (to
>> lower triglycerides) , as well as 1000 mg of Niaspan (to raise HDL).
>> Nutrition:
>> I've followed my cardiologist's recommended heart-healthy diet (under
>> 50 mg fat daily, less than 15 mg saturated fat, no simple starches or
>> sugar, plenty of low-glycemic fruit and berries, lots of non-starchy
>> vegetables, whole grain cereals and breads and reasonable portions of
>> fish and skinless chicken -- no red meat). So far I have lost 52
>> pounds since October with just 38 more pounds to go to reach my
>> recommended BMI. (Male, 6'1", I've gone from 270 to 218 pounds).
[. . .]
>> Obviously I'm very excited about these results, and psychologically
>> feel great about my health future now that I'm on the right track. But
>> one question is bugging me, and I realize that this may be the
>> proverbial $64,000 question: I've been a bit surprised that my HDL
>> has not risen more than the 3 points that it has, even though the
>> LDL/HDL ratio has improved tremendously. What else can I do that I'm
>> not doing already to improve the HDL? Exercise, Niaspan, diet haven't
>> seemed to help much. The more I read, the more I'm convinced that
>> the scrubbing effect of the HDL may be the ultimate key to my
>> continued cardiovascular health and ultimate longevity. (I've been
>> wondering if the statins or fenofibrates also tend to minimize HDL
>> along with LDL). I realize there is no magic bullet, but I'd
>> appreciate any ideas about anything else -- or any combination of
>> things -- that I could try to get that HDL higher. Or even any
>> suggested reading on the subject.
>Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
>publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office.
I guess my first, excellent, cardiologist didn't know that. He started me at
1000mg/day, and one of his successors lowered it to 500mg when my blood work
stabilized.
>Your total cholesterol is too low at this point.
Are you medically qualified to make such a definite statement about a patient
you know only from some numbers?
newsreader
>
>> Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
>> publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office.
>
> I guess my first, excellent, cardiologist didn't know that. He started me at
> 1000mg/day, and one of his successors lowered it to 500mg when my blood work
> stabilized.
I was wondering about that 1500 mg statement.
My Doc started me on 500 mg/day last December, at the same time he cut
my Lipitor from 80mg to 40mg. Most of the stuff I have read seems to be
saying low doses of Niaspan coupled with low doses of Crestor show good
results in raising HDL levels. I'm still on the 500 mg, but Doc switched
me to Crestor 10mg quite recently.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
>
> >
> >> Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
> >> publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office.
> >
> > I guess my first, excellent, cardiologist didn't know that. He started me at
> > 1000mg/day, and one of his successors lowered it to 500mg when my blood work
> > stabilized.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon
> I was wondering about that 1500 mg statement.
> My Doc started me on 500 mg/day last December, at the same time he cut
> my Lipitor from 80mg to 40mg. Most of the stuff I have read seems to be
> saying low doses of Niaspan coupled with low doses of Crestor show good
> results in raising HDL levels. I'm still on the 500 mg, but Doc switched
> me to Crestor 10mg quite recently.
It remains smarter to eat less, down to the right amount, in order to
lose the VAT thereby increasing HDL (typically by more than 100%):
A simple parable given in hopes of promoting understanding:
May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a
... by being hungrier:
http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD
Hunger is wonderful:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
... gone:
http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed
Amen.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
J666
(in message <Ja6dnYq0TalsLWXa...@comcast.com>):
> I was wondering about that 1500 mg statement.
> My Doc started me on 500 mg/day last December, at the same time he cut
> my Lipitor from 80mg to 40mg. Most of the stuff I have read seems to be
> saying low doses of Niaspan coupled with low doses of Crestor show good
> results in raising HDL levels. I'm still on the 500 mg, but Doc switched
> me to Crestor 10mg quite recently.
The labels on most niacin sold for this say 500mg qd and not to take more
without checking with your doctor
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
who is
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Wailingsatan
is also still
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Doomedsatan
forevermore
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Alpha_Omega
guaranteed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/ProofsByGOD
<><
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
... by being hungrier:
http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD
Hunger is wonderful:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
... gone:
http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed
Amen.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21
A simple parable for the wise and discerning:
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier
Marana tha
zob
I'm taking Niaspan, a prescription-only version of niacin.
Zob
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
> > newsreader wrote :
> >> satan via another sockpuppet hissed:
> >
> >> I was wondering about that 1500 mg statement.
> >> My Doc started me on 500 mg/day last December, at the same time he cut
> >> my Lipitor from 80mg to 40mg. Most of the stuff I have read seems to be
> >> saying low doses of Niaspan coupled with low doses of Crestor show good
> >> results in raising HDL levels. I'm still on the 500 mg, but Doc switched
> >> me to Crestor 10mg quite recently.
> >
> >The labels on most niacin sold for this say 500mg qd and not to take more
> >without checking with your doctor
>
> I'm taking Niaspan, a prescription-only version of niacin.
Pretenders would continue to not have a clue:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Pretendersatan
You would still be smarter to ignore satan's sockpuppets and eat less,
down to the right amount...
And, wisely repent by publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus
is LORD:"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForZob
zob
<p297ton...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
>publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office. Niacin also improves
>cholesterol quality typically increasing LDL particle size to more
>healthy levels. One needs a VAP test to determine particle size and sub
>fractions. Not eating enough fat, particularly saturated fat, will keep
>your HDL low.
I eat enough fat. In fact, I faithfully weight, measure, record and
track every single thing I eat using Fitday nutritional software. My
cardiologist recommended I follow the AHA's guideline of less than 50
mg of fat per day and less than 15 mg of saturated fat. Over the past
5 months, my fat intake has been 49g and saturated fat has been 14g.
I've been controlling it very carefully to stay within the recommended
limits yet not eat too little.
>Your total cholesterol is too low at this point. Optimum
>according to the life extension foundation is between 180-200. Lower
>than 180 and other causes of mortality increase.
My LDL cholesterol is in the range that studies have shown can
minimize -- or even possible reverse -- CAD. THe Mayo clinic
recommends LDL being in the 60 - 70 mg range, and mine is lightly low
now at 56. But it's far better than being too high. As far as total
cholesterol goes, again the Mayo clinic research shows 140 - 150 being
the optimal range. ANd this was the exact reason for my original
post. I need to somehow get my HDL level raised significantly, almost
doubled from what it is now. This will put my HDL *and* my total
cholesterol exactly in the optimal range.
> Above 200 and other
>cause of mortality increase but in this case it looks like one needs to
>get well above 240 total, perhaps closer to 300. Anything with trans
>fats will lower HDL and decrease LDL particle size and often whole grain
>products use trans fats.
I don't eat any transfats or any products that use transfats
whatsoever.
> I would avoid processed foods like that an
>decrease my consumption of grains because evolutionary wise, man has
>only had 10,000 years to adapt genetically to grains and that is far too
>short a time. I would also work to get more fat in the diet as that
>will increase your HDL numbers.
Not necessary. I eat grain products in moderation. I have exactly
one cup of whole-grain Cheerios (as recommended by my cardiologist)
with 1/2 cup of skim milk and fresh berries every day for lunch, and
have one or two slices of whole grain, double-fiber bread every other
day or so. This is it for processed grains. I do eat non-processed
grains more often, I enjoy rolled oats several times a week with
cinnamon and sliced banana.
> I would eat some read meat.
'Why? The fats in the fish I'm eating nearly daily are unsaturated
and high in the Omega oils that are heart-healthy -- much more so than
the fats in a hamburger or steak. Again, I'm following my
cardiologist's recommendations for now in this area. I have no
problem actually with eating red meat; I've just gotten out of the
habit. I've gotten so I much prefer a grilled salmon steak or broiled
Tilapia over a hunk of pot roast or barbeque ribs. What could the
advantage be of eating the red meat over the fish? It seems to be the
opposite of what the AHA recommends.
>Have you had a VAP test, homocysteine test, and checked thyroid which
>can increase cholesterol numbers?
I have not had a VAP or homocysteine test. My cardiologist told me
that new, extensive studies showed little correlation between
homocysteine levels and heart attack or death from CAD, and as a
result he no longer recommends this test for is patients. (I get
plenty of B vitamins and folic acid anyway, so I'm not too worried
about it). The same studies, however, have shown that C-Reactive
Protein *does* have a direct correlation to heart attack and sudden
CAD death -- so he is more concerned about controlling arterial
inflammation. My latest CRP level is now in the center of the median
for risk, not bad for someone who had Acute Coronary Syndrome just a
few months ago.
Aside from the low HDL, the only other thing out of the normal range
on my blood tests were elevated EOS and "absolute EOS." My doctor
said that the elevated reading is probably due to seasonal allergies
(for which I take Zyretc). Everything else is normal.
When I have my next Dr. appointment - which is in two months - I'm
going to request a VAP test for further breakdown of the cholesterol.
After reading your post I did some online research and found that the
test is fairly new and may have to be requested by patients. I'll do
exactly that. Thanks for the suggestion.
Zob
zob
wrote:
>Way to go Zob! Stellar performance.
>Like you, I cut my TC in half after my 9/30/07 attack & angio stents.
>Unlike you, by HDL went down, from 38 to 30 IIRC. Since learning that in
>December, I started adding more specific **good** fat containing foods
>as per suggestions from nurses & nutritionists.
>I now eat a fair amount of: Walnuts, Avocados, freshly ground Flax seed,
> grape juice, high cocoa dark chocolate in moderation, pecans, and even
>some peanut butter. Smart Balance brand fake butter was also
>recommended, and it tastes pretty decent. Of all the above, I think
>Avocados offer the most benefit, and certainly the most satisfaction,
>for me anyway.
I've started using Smart Balance also. I was eating my vegetables,
etc. plain, but I've started using two or three tablespoons a day now.
Flax seed sounds like a great idea; I eat a lot of oatmeal and it
would be easy to mix it in or sprinkle it on top. I think I'll also
start eating more nuts -- I love pecans and walnuts, and will wee how
I can work them into my diet plan.
> I should have my latest blood work results midweek to see if this has
>made a difference.
Let us know how it turned out!
Zob
J666
(in message
<c9eee4a6-fdcf-4c59...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>):
> Pretenders would continue to not have a clue:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Pretendersatan
And those who are delusional continue not to have right answers.
zob
<don...@wavecable.com> wrote:
>It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
><80a8134a-c331-41ae...@a22g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:
>
>>newsreader wrote:
>>>
>>> Way to go Zob! Stellar performance.
>>
>>Actually his low HDL < 50 mg/dl remains a concern.
>
>Not nearly the concern it would be if his risk factor were in mid-range instead
>of as low as it is.
Yep, I'm concentrating on the positive. Considering that in 5 months
I've improved my LDL/HDL ratio from 3.6 to 1.5, I'd say that I've
pretty dramatically decreased cholesterol-related risk. I'm not where
I want to be yet -- the whole point of my original post in this
thread was to get suggestions on increasing my HDL level some more.
But I'm very happy with the results of the changes I've made in
lifestyle and diet and the impact on my overall health that these
changes have made.
Zob
zob
Thanks.
And yep, one of the reasons I'm being so pro-active is because I have
a heavy family history (on both sides) of early death from CAD. My
father died in his 50's from a stroke after having had two heart
attacks in his 40's, and my mother died in her 60's from a heart
attack. My younger brother has had quintuple bypass surgery in his
40's as well as 6 stent insertions since, and my sister has
diabetic-related CAD. So I know that there are some genetic factors
in play that I can do absolutely nothing about. However, that's all
the more reason for me to be motivated to maximize my options in the
health issues over which I *do* directly have some control.
You're right, it's a good feeling to see the pretty dramatic results
that simple nutrition has made. My primary care physician is using my
results as an example for his other patients as to what can be
accomplished with a little perseverance and determination. I'm proud
of what I've done, and results like this are self-motivating and makes
it easier to continue. The doctors can do only so much; I'm finding
that we really each hold our destinies in our own hands to a large
degree where our cardiac health is concerned.
As far as meditation goes... I've addressed the spiritual aspect of my
life as well in conjunction with the physical changes I'm making. I
recently started visiting churches, and found one that I love and feel
very much at home and at peace in. I'm joining the church next
Sunday.
Zob
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
J666
(in message <96kiv3tc3nokg8lmq...@4ax.com>):
> I'm proud
> of what I've done, and results like this are self-motivating and makes
> it easier to continue. The doctors can do only so much; I'm finding
> that we really each hold our destinies in our own hands to a large
> degree where our cardiac health is concerned.
A motivated, educated patient who realizes his/her responsiblity is always
better.
With the internet today, and being careful as to what you read, you can learn
a lot which helps you.
There are some good starting points, like the web site for the American Heart
(Diabetic,etc) Association and many of the universities have sites which end
in "edu" and there are some good sites like WebMD and eMedicine. There are
some good private-type sites, but need to be very careful and these groups,
be very careful - do NOT trust (private sites and groups) until you have
varified it with one reliable source or even more.
Also need to realize, that there is not uniform agreement in medicine and
there is still the science and the art in the practice of medicine. So pick a
good doctor, be informed and compliant and stick with that doctor. Do not be
afraid of asking for a second opinion - a good doctor should not mind that -
if your doctors does object, time to look for a new doctor.
Good work on what you have done, keep it up and I hope you continue to do
well.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Pramesh Rutaji
Taking 500 mg/day of Niacin didn't solve my small particle problem as
measured with a vap test. Neither did any increments until I got to at
least 2500 mg/day. Initially my cardiologist refused to even order the
VAP test so I ordered it myself and then got another cardiologist who
had a clue what a VAP test and small particle LDL was.
One think I like about niacin is that I can but the product over the
counter and not pay the 10-50 times drug mark ups, I can order my own
blood work and track my own results. I can do what's best for me and
place my cardiologist in the position of having to make his case that I
should change what I'm doing; He has to treat me individually instead of
as another patient statistic.
>> Your total cholesterol is too low at this point.
>
> Are you medically qualified to make such a definite statement about a patient
> you know only from some numbers?
Statistically speaking, when people are divided into 4 quartiles based
on total cholesterol, those in the lowest quartile die at greater than
twice the rate as those in the highest quartile using the end point
all-cause-mortality. One may look at cardiovascular events if they
exclude heart failure and find benefits to lowering cholesterol, but
death rates from other causes increased. Science in health has most
often been about "statistical" models. I have never been to a doctor
that just treated me; doctors have an "assembly line" mentality and
their patents get the down side of that mentality. If you have
cholesterol that happens to be above the drug influenced limits, you
will be prescribed medication with no regard to it's ultimate effect on
you personally. If A then B;if not B;then C;etc.
Try a web search for "risks low cholesterol".
A total cholesterol of 117 is way below the point where health problems
start occurring. The recommendation that LDL be lowered below 70 is
thin at best, bullshit at worst. When the one study used
all-cause-mortality as the end point, not just cardiovascular events,
mortality INCREASED when LDL was lowered to 70 or below although that
increase did not reach statistical significance. There is no good
evidence to lower LDL to 70 or below and a lot of reason to keep total
cholesterol above 180; if or course, your goal is to live the longest
and healthiest life possible, statistically speaking. If you don't care
about death from any other cause, only cardiovascular events, then go
for it. Given the choice between surviving a heart attack or a stroke,
I much rather have a weak heart and all my cognitive facilities. Low
cholesterol lowers IQ.
I would be screwed if I had depended on cardiologists for my
cardiovascular health care. They have to look at a lot of issues, I get
to be focused on mine. As a result, I'm a "consumer" of cardio related
services, not a patient.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Don Kirkman
>Don Kirkman wrote:
>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Pramesh Rutaji wrote in article
>> <ft8d8...@news1.newsguy.com>:
>>> Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
>>> publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office.
>> I guess my first, excellent, cardiologist didn't know that. He started me at
>> 1000mg/day, and one of his successors lowered it to 500mg when my blood work
>> stabilized.
>Taking 500 mg/day of Niacin didn't solve my small particle problem as
>measured with a vap test. Neither did any increments until I got to at
>least 2500 mg/day. Initially my cardiologist refused to even order the
>VAP test so I ordered it myself and then got another cardiologist who
>had a clue what a VAP test and small particle LDL was.
>One think I like about niacin is that I can but the product over the
>counter and not pay the 10-50 times drug mark ups, I can order my own
>blood work and track my own results. I can do what's best for me and
>place my cardiologist in the position of having to make his case that I
>should change what I'm doing; He has to treat me individually instead of
>as another patient statistic.
Your response has nothing to do with my rebuttal of your statement that
"[t"]herapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day."
>>> Your total cholesterol is too low at this point.
>> Are you medically qualified to make such a definite statement about a patient
>> you know only from some numbers?
>Statistically speaking, when people are divided into 4 quartiles based
>on total cholesterol, those in the lowest quartile die at greater than
>twice the rate as those in the highest quartile using the end point
>all-cause-mortality. One may look at cardiovascular events if they
>exclude heart failure and find benefits to lowering cholesterol, but
>death rates from other causes increased. Science in health has most
>often been about "statistical" models. I have never been to a doctor
>that just treated me; doctors have an "assembly line" mentality and
>their patents get the down side of that mentality. If you have
>cholesterol that happens to be above the drug influenced limits, you
>will be prescribed medication with no regard to it's ultimate effect on
>you personally. If A then B;if not B;then C;etc.
Your essay on statistical analysis has nothing to with your claim that zob's
cholesterol is too low (statistics can't say anything very meaningful about one
individual case) nor about your medical qualifications to diagnose an unseen
individual.
Pramesh Rutaji
Perhaps zob should ask his his cardiologist, the one with all the
'qualified' answers, instead of fishing for possibilities from the
general internet population. But, as we both know, doctors often and
frequently fail at their task and when they succeed, it most often is
the case that body healed itself and would have done so regardless of
the "qualifications" of the doctor.
Zob has quite a number of venues he can address for information on his
case and his expectations should be appropriately adjusted. Zob's low
cholesterol is "statistically" speaking very very very likely to degrade
his intellectual capacity over time and if his cholesterol is
undiagnosed small particle LDL, then no matter how low he takes it, it
will still continue to clog his arteries getting worse and worse in
spite of his limited but better than average diet.
One place he shouldn't be getting diet advise from is the AHA, an
organization designed to keep physicians in business and highly paid.
Saturated fats raised HDL and zob continues to limit his on the dubious
advise of the AHA. He should get a copy of "Good Calories, Bad
Calories" by Taub and then he will understand why 'qualifications' are
failing him in significant ways.
In my personal case, my HDL was 31 on day of a heart attack and it now
reads in the high 60s. My trigs run in the 90s without taking any
medications specifically to lower it and my hsCRP run between 0.22 and
0.27. Other blood parameters show similar quality values. NONE of the
advise I got from several cardiologists would have made much of a
difference in those numbers and NONE of the cardiologist was too
concerned about elevating HDL. So, whatever 'qualifications' do for
you, they certainly are not very effective in addressing real concerns
that are not profitable to drug companies. My qualifications are that I
have achieved excellent blood work in areas where zob and his physicians
continue to fail.
If you Don want to start your own moderated medical list and limit
contributions to a narrow range of qualifications, they by all means,
get it on. I will continue to provide feedback on this list as I see
fit. I don't charge and no one has to listen.
Don Kirkman
>Don Kirkman wrote:
>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Pramesh Rutaji wrote in article
>> <ftcgj...@news4.newsguy.com>:
>>> Don Kirkman wrote:
>>>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Pramesh Rutaji wrote in article
>>>> <ft8d8...@news1.newsguy.com>:
>>>>> Therapeutic doseages of niacin start at 1500 mg/day according to a
>>>>> publication on Niacin in my cardiologist's office.
>>>> I guess my first, excellent, cardiologist didn't know that. He started me at
>>>> 1000mg/day, and one of his successors lowered it to 500mg when my blood work
>>>> stabilized.
[. . .]
>If you Don want to start your own moderated medical list and limit
>contributions to a narrow range of qualifications, they by all means,
>get it on. I will continue to provide feedback on this list as I see
>fit. I don't charge and no one has to listen.
I've never tried to moderate any newsgroup I participate in. I do, however,
challenge information and experience that don't seem credible and/or that are
not supportable by recognized studies, just as I've done with some of your
statements. So far you have not offered support for them; in fact you have
repeated your diagnosis that zob has dangerously low HDL. You also seem to be
making your individual experience a model for others.
zob
That would make sense to me,and nothing mysterious. If low
cholesterol though nutrition,diet and exercise is making people feel
better,t hey're getting more active. The statistics that you site
include things like plane crashes and getting hit by cars while
jogging. I promise not to do crazy things once I'm at my weight goal
;-D.
>>> One may look at cardiovascular events if they exclude heart failure and find benefits to lowering cholesterol, but
>>> death rates from other causes increased. Science in health has most
>>> often been about "statistical" models. I have never been to a doctor
>>> that just treated me; doctors have an "assembly line" mentality and
>>> their patents get the down side of that mentality. If you have
>>> cholesterol that happens to be above the drug influenced limits, you
>>> will be prescribed medication with no regard to it's ultimate effect on
>>> you personally. If A then B;if not B;then C;etc.
>>
>> Your essay on statistical analysis has nothing to with your claim that zob's
>> cholesterol is too low (statistics can't say anything very meaningful about one
>> individual case) nor about your medical qualifications to diagnose an unseen
>> individual.
>
>Perhaps zob should ask his his cardiologist, the one with all the
>'qualified' answers, instead of fishing for possibilities from the
>general internet population.
I'm not sure I understand this statement or condescending attitude.
Why do you post on the usenet if not to share and discuss ideas?
That's what I'm here for. To get as much information as possible to
assimilate into my ever-weaking LDL-starved brain cells <g> so that I
can make intelligent decisions based on both input from my
cardiologist --in whom I have great faith, by the way -- from my own
research, and from conversations with those who are knowledgeable and
experienced in the area.
>But, as we both know, doctors often and frequently fail at their task and when they succeed, it most often is
>the case that body healed itself and would have done so regardless of
>the "qualifications" of the doctor.
>Zob has quite a number of venues he can address for information on his
>case and his expectations should be appropriately adjusted. Zob's low
>cholesterol is "statistically" speaking very very very likely to degrade
>his intellectual capacity over time and if his cholesterol is
>undiagnosed small particle LDL, then no matter how low he takes it, it
>will still continue to clog his arteries getting worse and worse in
>spite of his limited but better than average diet.
>One place he shouldn't be getting diet advise from is the AHA, an
>organization designed to keep physicians in business and highly paid.
>Saturated fats raised HDL and zob continues to limit his on the dubious
>advise of the AHA.
I disagree. You do not know me as an individual. The single most
important thing for me right now is to lose 90 - 100 pounds.
Obesity=daibetes=cAD=heart attack as far as I'm concerned. The
calorie-dense saturated fat , (along with sugar), is the worst thing I
can eat right now. The very best thing I can do for my health is to
continue to do what I am lose the weight.. Than I can begin to fine
tune the micro nutrients a bit more.
>He should get a copy of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taub and then he will understand why 'qualifications' are
>failing him in significant ways.
My Cardiologist is not a traditionalist. The diet that I'm on is more
like (but not exactly) a South Beach type, from which Taub seems to
have taken many of his ideas. (Isn't Taubs a journalist, not a
scientist?) I eat fats, but good fats - and I eat carbs, but
low-glycemic carbs. I eat starches, but complex, not simple starches.
Same principles. I eat protein, but see absolutely no advantage to
eating red meat fat over healthy omega-righ fats in fish. And I've
never seen a study that even remotely supports eating red meat over
fish. ( This is just what works for me, I'm not advocating it for
everybody). My hunger is satisfied and I've been losing about 10
pounds a month for the past 5 months with no stalls, plateaus or
cravings. I'm also eating well-nutritionally balanced food and
tracking the calories, fat, cholesterol, saturated fat, vitamins,
minerals and micro nutrients that I eat every single day. I can't
imagine anyone being more self-conscious or proactive about their diet
than I am being. My doctor appreciates that I'm being proactive and
making suggestions and taking control of my own eating patterns.
>
>In my personal case, my HDL was 31 on day of a heart attack and it now
>reads in the high 60s. My trigs run in the 90s without taking any
>medications specifically to lower it and my hsCRP run between 0.22 and
>0.27.
I fully expect that when I reach my goal weight of my ideal BMI, Iwill
be able to kick the Tricor to the curb also. I've had classic
metabolic syndrome -- all my extra weight in the midsection, slightly
elevated blood glucose, high blood pressure, high LDL and low HDL
cholesterol. That is what I'm devising my diet to overcome. I
strongly believe I can completely reverse this, and am well on my way
to doing this. I was shocked when I saw how low my cholesterol had
gone after 3 or 4 months between the meds, nutritional intake and
weight loss. It did strike me as too low. This is exactly why I'm
having discussions like these, trying to get some input form others
besides my doctors as to how to raise my HDL -- since the AHA
recommendations aren't working- or are working only slightly - for me.
>Other blood parameters show similar quality values. NONE of the advise I got from several cardiologists would have made much of a
>difference in those numbers and NONE of the cardiologist was too
>concerned about elevating HDL. So, whatever 'qualifications' do for
>you, they certainly are not very effective in addressing real concerns
>that are not profitable to drug companies. My qualifications are that I
>have achieved excellent blood work in areas where zob and his physicians
>continue to fail.
>
>If you Don want to start your own moderated medical list and limit
>contributions to a narrow range of qualifications, they by all means,
>get it on. I will continue to provide feedback on this list as I see
>fit. I don't charge and no one has to listen.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cholesterol-level/AN01394
"Some research suggests that LDL cholesterol levels between 60 and 70
mg/dL are not only safe but can help slow or even reverse coronary
artery disease."
The question in my original post was to look for advice on other ways
that I can raise my HDL, and I appreciate the answers I've been given.
My (LDL + VLDL) of 79 seems to be just fine for now.
Zob
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
optimal until after all the VAT (black fat) is gone:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/BlackFat
Personally, my own HDL has increased from 54 to 94 mg/dl after eating
less, down to the right amount:
This completely free Approach comes with free cardiologist support via
usenet and includes an unprecedented 2 million dollar guarantee...
http://HearftMDPhD.com/Guarantee
... whose criteria has been freely posted and discussed in
sci.med.cardiology:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Guarantee/Criteria
Here is a simple parable given in hopes of promoting understanding:
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
convicted neighbor zob wrote:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForZob
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
> >convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon
> >> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
> >>> convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
> >>>> satan via a sockpuppet corporeal demon) hissed::
yama...@aol.com
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> It remains our collective clinical experience that HDL does not become
> optimal until after all the VAT (black fat) is gone:
Simple question for Chung. How does one measure VAT? What units are
used? How does one know if it's gone? Please cite a medical journal or
text book source for this. Please also show where human VAT is called
"black fat."
Citing your own bullshit websites or avoiding answering this question
will prove that you are a charlatan and a fraud who is giving medical
misinformation.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Pramesh Rutaji
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cholesterol-level/AN01394
> "Some research suggests that LDL cholesterol levels between 60 and 70
> mg/dL are not only safe but can help slow or even reverse coronary
> artery disease."
>
> The question in my original post was to look for advice on other ways
> that I can raise my HDL, and I appreciate the answers I've been given.
> My (LDL + VLDL) of 79 seems to be just fine for now.
>
> Zob
"[a]fter performing an exhaustive review of existing research on LDL
cholesterol and heart health, they [the researchers] conclude that there
is no scientifically valid evidence to support the ultra-low LDL target
of 70 milligrams/deciliter for very high-risk patients that has been
advocated by some members of the federal government’s National
Cholesterol Education Program. Further, they suggest that the evidence
previously cited to support an LDL goal of less than 100mg/dL for high
risk patients also has major flaws;" every marketing and advertising
campaign for statins would need a major over-haul?"
OR
"If they remain quiet, the public may not hear about how the researchers
found "For those with LDL cholesterol levels less than 3.36 mmol/L (less
than 130 mg/dL), the authors found no clinical trial subgroup analyses
or valid cohort or case–control analyses suggesting that the degree to
which LDL cholesterol responds to a statin independently predicts the
degree of cardiovascular risk reduction."
"As is clear in this review, lowering LDL cholesterol below 130 or below
100 or below the new target of 70, has no support in the data, is not
based on evidence and is a target without foundation for the marketing
or promotion of statins."
http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2006/10/study-lowering-ldl-not-supported-by.html
Value of Cholesterol Targets Is Disputed
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/health/17chol.html