Re: Reversed or "cured". That is the question
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> SugarQueen <cwg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife--
>
> > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed
> > their diabetes. Now I'm not looking for opinions on what you think a
> > person should do to attempt to reach that goal, I would like to know
> > if any of you have actually become "no longer a diabetic."
>
> In whose opinion? If you want to be diagnosed by a doctor as no longer
> diabetic you first have to find a doctor who believes that it's
> possible, and then if your condition convinces that doctor you have to
> choose to believe that doctor rather than thoe other doctors.
>
> There are a few folk walking around of whom doctors say, "We must have
> been mistaken in our original diagnosis of diabetes, because you
> clearly are not diabetic now, and since diabetes is not curable, you
> therefore can't have been diabetic then."
This would be a circular argument where greater faith is placed on
type-2 diabetes being incurable than on the reliability of the type-2
diabetes diagnosis.
Meanwhile, our bariatric surgeons are touting a surgical cure for
type-2 diabetes.
> Since there is some agreement that pre-diabetes is reversible, and if
> unchecked it can develop into diabetes which is irreversible, there
> will necessarily be a grey area of mistaken diagnosis at the boundary
> between the two.
No such thing as a grey area of mistaken diagnosis.
If there were, there would no longer be any grounds for medical
malpractice liability for mistaken diagnoses.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist
tr...@is-best.com
"No such thing as a grey area of mistaken diagnosis.
If there were, there would no longer be any grounds for medical
malpractice liability for mistaken diagnoses."
All the more evidence in the area of diabetes and related metabolic
disorders to ignore the above source. Inthe past couple of decades the
arbitrary point to diagnose diabetes has steadily come down as measured
by glucose levels. Diabetes is a stage in a range of metabolic
disorders, it is not a black and white definition in the gray areas of
its course.
Unless and untill any opinion of the above source has been confirmed
independently by expert sources first, it is best to ignore opinions
coming from it.
God bless.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
<snip>
>
> One of my daughters was diagnosed as T2 diabetic 15 yrs. ago... She
> went on a diet, exercised... did all the right stuff.
Without eating less, down to the right amount, all is not right.
> It seemingly went away, although I doubted that it was gone.
Without eating less, down to the right amount to become hungrier
(healthier), the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) would persist.
> Sure enough, a year an
> a ahlf, or so ago, she was diagnosed as diabetic again...
Not surprising when VAT persists.
> I think what must have happened was that she was actually pre-diabetic
> before, postponed the hardcore case, by shaping up, and then resumed
> the downhill slide into true diabetes. She used to go through a whole
> case of sodas every week...
That would be overeating and so VAT would persist. Sad to read this
about your daughter.
It remains wiser to eat less, down to the optimal amount to lose the
VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly cure the type-2 diabetes:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
This completely free Approach comes with an unprecedented million-
dollar guarantee:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> SugarQueen wrote:
> > Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/
> > answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have
> > it, manage it to get the best results possible. Ok then. There is no
> > hope of eating an entire chocolate cake with my husband in the future.
> > Don't worry I won't eat it all alone. I won't even bake one. Sorry
> > honeee, no ice cream. I'm not diabetic. I can eat a ton of sweets at
> > one time with 0 that's 0 raise in BG. However, having a hubby that is
> > T2 is making me feel a lot better because we eat pretty much the same
> > foods except for my Yoplait pina colada yogurt and a peanut butter,
> > raisin, and wholewheat bread sandwhiches. I'm younger than he is, so
> > now is a good time for me to eat well too. I also cut out the sweets.
> > Who needs all that sugary stuff anyway? Not me. I've cut out sugar in
> > the decaf. I'm trying to get him to toss the artificial sweeteners and
> > have the coffee and cream and that's it. Who needs all that weird
> > stuff anyway? Bottom line--live well and eat right. It benefits a
> > person with MS too.
> >
>
> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
> say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how.
The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an
excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals.
It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures
the type-2 diabetes:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgitool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229
or
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1847605&blobtype=pdf
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Iceman6409 <icema...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >SugarQueen wrote:
>
> >> Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/
> >> answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have
> >> it, manage it to get the best results possible. Ok then. There is no
> >> hope of eating an entire chocolate cake with my husband in the future.
> >> Don't worry I won't eat it all alone. I won't even bake one. Sorry
> >> honeee, no ice cream. I'm not diabetic. I can eat a ton of sweets at
> >> one time with 0 that's 0 raise in BG. However, having a hubby that is
> >> T2 is making me feel a lot better because we eat pretty much the same
> >> foods except for my Yoplait pina colada yogurt and a peanut butter,
> >> raisin, and wholewheat bread sandwhiches. I'm younger than he is, so
> >> now is a good time for me to eat well too. I also cut out the sweets.
> >> Who needs all that sugary stuff anyway? Not me. I've cut out sugar in
> >> the decaf. I'm trying to get him to toss the artificial sweeteners and
> >> have the coffee and cream and that's it. Who needs all that weird
> >> stuff anyway? Bottom line--live well and eat right. It benefits a
> >> person with MS too.
> >>
> >
> >I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
> >eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
> >say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how.
>
It is what they are observing:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1847605&blobtype=pdf
or
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229
Losing the VAT is the key:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/7/1699
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> SugarQueen <cwg...@yahoo.com> wrote in part:
>
> >"Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife--
> >I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed
> >their diabetes. Now I'm not looking for opinions on what you think a
> >person should do to attempt to reach that goal, I would like to know
> >say that diabetes is reversible. I'm not sure if that meant curable.
> >I'm looking for testimonials from actualy people. This is a question
> >with a "yes" or "no" answer. You were a diabetic and now you are not a
> >diabetic. Plain and simple. Ok. You are probably thinking "well if
> >people have had it reversed and became normal then they wouldn't be
> >here on this group." Ok then. How about...do you know of anyone
> >personally--friend or relative--who has reversed their diabetes
> >completely to where their BG is within the normal range (non-diabetic)
> >no matter what was eaten and no medication was taken and you or
> >someone has gone on with their merry life and never had to worry about
> >it ever again--not a temporary thing. I apologize for sounding blunt
> >or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but
> >I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :)
>
> You don't want opinions but diabetes is diagnosed in an inconsistent way.
> The diagnosis is based on high readings on more than one sequential test of
> fasting bg or postprandial bg. Not that many people actually undergo PP bg
> testing.
>
> So, a diabetic who lost weight and reduced carbs and exercised until their
> fasting bg dropped below 126 mg/dl would not be diagnosed by a new doctor as
> diabetic.
>
> But if they insisted on a glucose tolerance test, they might well still test
> diabetic and be diagnosed as such again. And maybe they would pass.
>
> But if they are able to get a normal fasting BG and a normal A1c, there's a
> good chance they can maintain that status with careful attention to weight
> and to diet and exercise. Perhaps they can't eat a large pure carb meal
> without having diabetic bgs, but large pure carb meals aren't normal to
> begin with.
>
> So it is possible for a diabetic to achieve a normal fasting bg and A1c and
> never experience levels of bg outside the normal range.
>
> I'd call that great, even if the term "cured" can't be applied.
The bariatric surgeons are calling it a cure:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1847605&blobtype=pdf
Frankly, I agree with them.
Losing **all** the VAT is the key:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/7/1699
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
KC
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <hear...@emorycardiology.com> wrote in message
news:1185933667....@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Iceman6409 wrote:
>> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
>> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
>> say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how.
>
> The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an
> excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals.
>
> It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures
> the type-2 diabetes:
Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less without
hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced. Another thing is that people
with gastric bypass are counselled to eat their protein first, so that if
they cannot handle any more food than that, they will at least get their
protein requirements met. So, they are essentially low carbing, which also
helps to reduce hunger. How can they possibly be losing VAT without
hunger? You have said that people lose SAT, not VAT if they lose weight
without accompanying hunger.
KC
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Iceman6409 wrote:
>
> >> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
> >> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
> >> say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how.
> >
> > The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an
> > excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals.
> >
> > It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures
> > the type-2 diabetes:
>
> Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less without
> hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced.
Incorrect.
It is well-established that reduction in intake is due to the physical/
mechanical constraints because similar results have been observed for
lap-gastric banding, which does not reduce ghrelin levels.
Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery
report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical
discomfort (pain) that stops them from eating more just as it is for
people who have not had bariatric surgery. The difference is the
amount of food before there is pain. Over time, this increases so
that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they
become more able to do so.
> Another thing is that people
> with gastric bypass are counselled to eat their protein first, so that if
> they cannot handle any more food than that, they will at least get their
> protein requirements met.
This would be the case for their official meals. This would not be
the case for the snacking.
> So, they are essentially low carbing, which also
> helps to reduce hunger.
However, they get carbs with the snacking if not with the meals and so
they are actually hungrier.
> How can they possibly be losing VAT without
> hunger?
They are hungrier and as they lose the VAT even more so.
> You have said that people lose SAT, not VAT if they lose weight
> without accompanying hunger.
It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing
truthfully.
> >
> > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229
flyingrat
heart...@emorycardiology.com says...
> It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing
> truthfully.
>
--
Andrew Chung:
Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number)
Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days
Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely
bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover
onto food.
Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.
Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as
"being
on vacation".
Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.
Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the
blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they
pass away.
BrG...@gmail.com
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing
> truthfully.
If only you would, Mr. Chung. If only you would.
"Quackery is a sin." -- Holly Spit
Amen.
Wiser to post less, down to the optimal amount thereby becoming a
responsible person.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/d559bc684dd89f
--
Mr. Chung's on-line behavior simply shows that the Holy Spirit is
absolutely right in convicting him.
The 10mg Lizard-Spit Approach is not a diet.
It does help people manage their Diabetes Mellitus (DM) possibly
preventing long-term complications resulting from poor control.
Bottom line: It remains wise to be peanut-free.
May your BG and A1c get better, dear neighbor whom I communicate with
unconditionally.
Be well, travel with a light heart and a low A1c [Gene, 3:16]
Prayerfully in Lizard-Spit's awesome love,
Gene Goldman
http://heartmdphd.com/Convicts/
T2
Metformin, Lizard-Spit, Aspartame, Nutrisweet, Sacarin
"Unlike quacks pushing snake oil and fad diets, please consult a
competent medical professional."
Consuming copious amounts of Aspartame-laden soft drinks with reckless
abandon!
Give me NutraSweet over peanuts any day!
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2007. All rights reserved.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Iceman6409 <icema...@frontiernet.net> wrote in part:
> >SugarQueen wrote:
> >> Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/
> >> answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have
> >> it, manage it to get the best results possible. Ok then. There is no
> >> hope of eating an entire chocolate cake with my husband in the future.
> >> Don't worry I won't eat it all alone. I won't even bake one. Sorry
> >> honeee, no ice cream. I'm not diabetic. I can eat a ton of sweets at
> >> one time with 0 that's 0 raise in BG. However, having a hubby that is
> >> T2 is making me feel a lot better because we eat pretty much the same
> >> foods except for my Yoplait pina colada yogurt and a peanut butter,
> >> raisin, and wholewheat bread sandwhiches. I'm younger than he is, so
> >> now is a good time for me to eat well too. I also cut out the sweets.
> >> Who needs all that sugary stuff anyway? Not me. I've cut out sugar in
> >> the decaf. I'm trying to get him to toss the artificial sweeteners and
> >> have the coffee and cream and that's it. Who needs all that weird
> >> stuff anyway? Bottom line--live well and eat right. It benefits a
> >> person with MS too.
> >>
> >
> >eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
> >say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how.
>
> bg doesn't take place until there is weight loss, does it?
More specifically with VAT loss:
flyingrat
hear...@emorycardiology.com says...
> Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
>
scams
FR
KC
http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/abstract/12/2/346
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote in message
news:1185959916.1...@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> convicted friend Kathy Claytor (KC) wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > Iceman6409 wrote:
>>
>> >> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
>> >> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
>> >> say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or
>> >> how.
>> >
>> > The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an
>> > excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals.
>> >
>> > It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures
>> > the type-2 diabetes:
>>
>> Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less
>> without
>> hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced.
>
> Incorrect.
>
> It is well-established that reduction in intake is due to the physical/
> mechanical constraints because similar results have been observed for
> lap-gastric banding, which does not reduce ghrelin levels.
But gastric banding produces much smaller weight losses than gastric bypass,
and also the "curing" of diabetes was much smaller with gastric banding:
http://www.emaxhealth.com/cms/?m=show&id=6656
The difference is that gastric banding does not alter ghrelin and pyy
levels.
>
> Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery
> report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical
> discomfort (pain) that stops them from eating more just as it is for
> people who have not had bariatric surgery. The difference is the
> amount of food before there is pain. Over time, this increases so
> that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they
> become more able to do so.
>
KC
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > convicted friend Kathy Claytor (KC) wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > Iceman6409 wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to
> >> >> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They
> >> >> say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or
> >> >> how.
> >> >
> >> > The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an
> >> > excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals.
> >> >
> >> > It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures
> >> > the type-2 diabetes:
> >>
> >> Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less
> >> without
> >> hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced.
> >
> > Incorrect.
> >
> > It is well-established that reduction in intake is due to the physical/
> > mechanical constraints because similar results have been observed for
> > lap-gastric banding, which does not reduce ghrelin levels.
>
> But gastric banding produces much smaller weight losses than gastric bypass,
> and also the "curing" of diabetes was much smaller with gastric banding:
> http://www.emaxhealth.com/cms/?m=show&id=6656
Gastric banding is less invasive/radical surgery where the physical
barrier to overeating is less daunting (less pain) and more easily
overcome as folks get hungrier.
> The difference is that gastric banding does not alter ghrelin and pyy
> levels.
Incorrect. See comments above.
> >
> > Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery
> > report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical
> > discomfort (pain) that stops them from eating more just as it is for
> > people who have not had bariatric surgery. The difference is the
> > amount of food before there is pain. Over time, this increases so
> > that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they
> > become more able to do so.
It remains wiser to use the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach to eat less,
down to the optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the
VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly even cure the type-2 diabetes:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes
with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee:
Be hungry... be healthy.... be blessed:
tr...@for-me.com
"It remains wiser to use the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach to eat less,
down to the optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the
VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly even cure the type-2 diabetes:"
All aspects of the two pound diet is based on trash science. Long term
readers of our friend come to know this very quickly, so this is for new
readers.
snip
"This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes
with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee:"
That form of weight reduction surgery causes a quick change in insulin
resistence and glucose levels long before loss of vat and weight start
to have an impact and the changes are due to increases in hormones not
related to vat. When one loses vat and weight by calorie restriction
the above changes take a long time to occurr and even then diabetes
remains as measured by any of the standard glucose testing methods. It
is not a cure of diabetes but a roll back of the symptoms of some
aspects of diabetes with the underlying metabolic disorder remaining.
Any of the science on which my comments are based can be offered on
request. When our friend is shown the research, from many studies, he
just ignores it.
He does not keep up with research, he invents trash science in pursuit
of a non-science agenda he also invented, heignores; as above; research
shown him which refutes in part and whole the two pound diet and his
agenda.
For those continuing facts the truth is not in his unsupported opinions
and those opinions can with full peace of mind be ignored.
God bless.
flyingrat
heart...@emorycardiology.com says...
> This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes
> with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee:
>
Post a link to a copy of a bank statement showing the million dollars.
Flickr or imgshack both offer free image hosting.
Do it now or be condemned as the liar and fraud we all know you are
FR
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> The changes in insulin resistance and glucose levels starts soon after
> the surgery. This surgery diverts food intake to the part of the gut
> with the most dense levels of l cells which are the source of glp-1,
> which byetta mimics. This incretin is greatly increased post surgery
> and is certainly related to the changes above.
The gastric bypass surgery does not work if there is no reduction in
stomach capacity so that the physical barrier to overeating appears to
be more important than the ileal transposition.
Indeed, this is underscored by the fact that lap-banding results in
similar improvements in insulin sensitivity and lowered glucose levels
immediately after surgery.
Nonetheless, it still remains wiser to simply eat less, down to the
optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, cure
the IR/MetS, and possibly even cure type-2 diabetes:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
This free Approach is simply a non-invasive equivalent to bariatrics
except that it also includes an unprecedented million-dollar
guarantee:
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
flyingrat
hear...@emorycardiology.com says...
> This free Approach is simply a non-invasive equivalent to bariatrics
> except that it also includes an unprecedented million-dollar
> guarantee:
>
tr...@for-me.com
> the surgery. This surgery diverts food intake to the part of the gut
> with the most dense levels of l cells which are the source of glp-1,
> which byetta mimics. This incretin is greatly increased post surgery
> and is certainly related to the changes above.
"The gastric bypass surgery does not work if there is no reduction in
stomach capacity so that the physical barrier to overeating appears to
be more important than the ileal transposition.
Indeed, this is underscored by the fact that lap-banding results in
similar improvements in insulin sensitivity and lowered glucose levels
immediately after surgery."
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, we will need research supporting
this as it is in contrast to what I have read on the subject.
In any case, the core issue here which refutes the two pound diet and
the vat notions you assert is the changes occur long before either
weight loss and vat status. The changes soon after surgery are found to
coorelate with greatly increased incretin output which does in itself
account for the changes.
God bless.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
>
> > Yes, but I'd thought the discussion of gastric bypass was in terms of
> > "Reversed or cured" as it says in the subject line. That is reversal or
> > cure of diabetes, yes?
>
>
> Priscilla, here's how the exchange started:
>
> In article <5hbprtF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Susan <neve...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >>
> >> Jim Chinnis wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Surely it is because there is a huge weight loss. The transition
> to normal
> >>> > bg doesn't take place until there is weight loss, does it?
> >>> >
> >
> >> Yes, it does. Normal bg is attained pretty quickly due to overall
> >> caloric restriction and due to the fact that bypass patients are
> >> instructed to eat mostly protein and some veggies, limiting fats and
> carbs.
>
>
> Too bad they aren't just given the information about diet before they're
> talked into mutilating their bodies. :-( Especially considering the
> high rate of complications and mortality within a few years after
> gastric bypass surgery.
>
> Priscilla
> ***************************
>
> My point was that in these extremely obese folks, who've tried all the
> diets, typically, including low carb, it doesn't work, or they're unable
> to sustain appetite control on any of them. Hence, bg control suffers
> along with weight issues.
>
> It would be hard to describe to you how hungry elevated cortisol levels
> make you; it's like a constant feeling of ravenous hunger. It's how I
> know if I'm in a high cycle, and I'm sure it's why I never got appetite
> suppression on low carb, though I got reduction of it.
>
> I think those folks know all about various diets, typically. What they
> and their doctors don't know is just how big a % of them have
> pituitary/adrenal problems causing their obesity. What's so unfortunate
> is that a lot of the folks most likely to be desperate enough for the
> surgery are the ones most likely to become obese again anyway, due to
> cortisol driven hunger defeating the bypass. :-/
Folks who know in their hearts that "hunger is wonderful" are no
longer compelled to overeat (eat until their stomach is so stretched
that they are no longer hungry) even when they become hungrier than
they have ever been in their lives. For such folks, there is no such
thing as "too hungry" just as there is no such thing as "too healthy."
This does require overcoming the world's great lie about hunger:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed.
tr...@for-me.com
compelled to overeat (eat until their stomach is so stretched that they
are no longer hungry) even when they become hungrier than they have ever
been in their lives. For such folks, there is no such thing as "too
hungry" just as there is no such thing as "too healthy.""
Bottom line, what a mess of tautology and non-scientific hooy. I remain
free in the truth to tell the truth.
Including the truth that no additional evidence is required to ignore
the above source with complete peace of mind, because the truth is not
in it.
God bless.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> ala...@brasspot.com wrote:
>
> >But was it ever diabetes in the first place beyond the usual diagnostic
> >numbers as used in t2 if the genetic predisposition for t2 was not
> >there?
Yes.
Just as it is coronary disease if a person suffers from angina
pectoris even if the genetic predisposition is absent.
> Only about 1/3 of folk with similar weight etc. risks become
> >diabetic.
Incorrect. Depends on the weight... more specifically on the amount
of VAT.
> If one is morpidly overweight etc. t2 like diabetic levels
> >could occur as outlined above.
It occurs when the amount of a person's visceral adipose tissue (VAT)
exceeds his/her body's threshold for expressing frank type-2 diabetes.
> >Remove the source of the inbalance
That would the VAT.
> >without the genetic disposition and they are back in normal ranges which
> >would not occur with a "true" t2 diabetic.
Actually, once the VAT is gone, there can be regeneration of beta
islet cells so that possibly all "true" type diabetics can become
euglycemic on a regular diet where there is no overeating.
> Excellent point; something I've wondered about myself when
> reading those "I'm cured" reports. The high BG's of a
> morbidly obese person may, or may not, be due to diabetes.
Medically, s/he would be diagnosed with type-2 diabetes if his/her
fasting blood glucose is greater than 126 mg/dL. This can be
confirmed with an oral glucose tolerance test as needed to remove all
doubt.
> When the diet and obesity problem is corrected the BG's may
> return to normal levels because there may be no underlying
> diabetes.
Incorrect.
The definition of type-2 diabetes does not include the stipulation
that if the condition is cured that retrospectively the condition was
not type-2 diabetes.
This reminds me of when Jesus cured the blindness of a man who was
blind from birth:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Healer.asp
There were those who falsely claimed that the blind man must not have
been blind because they believed congenital blindness was not curable.
"With man this is impossible, but with GOD all things are possible."
-- LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:26)
Amen.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > as a way to treat their DM, what makes you think that these "morbidly
> > obese" people are? I'm hearing about bariatric surgery being pushed on
> > fat people almost as a matter of routine -- without other routes
> > considered to treat their real problem. The clinicians assume "fat
> > person -- must cut them up" and don't bother with treating their actual
> > presenting problem. It's like they can't see or hear anything but the
> > person's body size. I've heard too many horror stories of doctors
> > ignoring the patient's presentation of symptoms and being willing to do
> > nothing but try to make them smaller. People have died because their
> > actual illnesses are ignored.
> >
> > No, I doubt very much that people who are scammed into this kind of
> > mutilation are informed of options for treating their diabetes.
> >
> > Priscilla
>
> I agree, as I know several people who did get bariatric surgeries, and
> another who was considering it, but got pregnant so it is on hold for now.
> I don't think they tried every diet on earth.
Diets do not help people achieve lasting weight loss.
> I, myself have been morbidly obese. I have managed to get below that line
> now, and am just plain old obese now. I work extremely hard to lose or even
> to just maintain my weight, so I know the extreme out of control hunger.
Until you have a change of heart about hunger, it will continue to be
hard work, struggle, and suffering to "lose or even to just
maintain..."
> I presume it is even worse for some than me as a very few people get up to
> 700, 800 or even 1000 pounds.
For those who have had a change of heart about hunger, being hungrier
is better and not worse.
> I am not sure if low carb could help them or not.
It does not help people lose the VAT that causes poor health.
The late Dr. Atkins would be an example.
When he died, he had severe heart disease despite being a
cardiologist.
> I saw this documentary about some very obese people, and as part of it
> they showed all the food they ate in a day. The amount did not surprise me
> (although it was alot) as much as the pale color of all the food; it was
> fat, starch and sugar.
It is not what they are eating but how much they are eating that is
problematic.
> The only color I saw was M&Ms. I was pretty shocked
> that they weren't at least trying to eat healthy foods even if they were
> overeating.
Color does not make the food necessarily healthy for somebody.
Food that brings about a healthy appetite (hunger) is healthy for that
particular somebody.
> But, starches and sugars give boosts of serotonin to our
> brains, so maybe they are addicted to the starches.
If that were true, we would observe folks addicted to their anti-
depressant medications...
... we don't.
> I know I am actually,
> but I try to control it with a lower carb diet (best for an addict to avoid
> their addiction), L-tryptophan supplements to help my brain get more of the
> serotonin building blocks and nicotine lozenges (which also help to boost
> serotonin levels).
That which suppresses appetite invariably harms you.
> I saw another show about the heaviest man on earth. He was around 1200
> pounds. I can't recall the exact number. He went on the Zone diet with the
> free help of a whole team of nutritionists who specialized in the Zone diet.
> At the end of the show he had lost about 400 pounds, but was at a weight
> loss plateau.
This means that the amount of food remains excessive.
> That was very current, so time will tell how he continues
> doing. He was considering gastric bypass several times on the show too, but
> both times he opted for the Zone diet instead. He was offered a free
> gastric bypass though, so that's why he considered it twice. He thought
> that when the spotlight was off of him that nobody would offer him a free
> one, so it was hard to pass up a free gastric bypass without knowing for
> sure if the Zone diet could really help him as much as he needed help. For
> one thing, at 1200 and 800 pounds he couldn't get out of bed, so could only
> eat what people brought him. It remains to be seen if he can stay on the
> Zone diet after he can serve himself.
It is the world's great lie about hunger that has enslaved him taking
away his free will to choose to eat less, down to the optimal amount,
and driving him to irrationally eat until his stomach is stretched to
kill his hunger:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed.
flyingrat
heart...@emorycardiology.com says...
> It is the world's great lie about hunger that has enslaved him taking
> away his free will to choose to eat less, down to the optimal amount,
> and driving him to irrationally eat until his stomach is stretched to
> kill his hunger:
Matthew 5:6 - Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for
righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Luke 6:21, 25 - Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be
satisfied. . . Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
Both these quotes from the Bible, and both infer that God (or Jesus)
considers hunger to be BAD.
Those who are hungry (for food or spiritual matters) will have the BAD
hunger removed, and those who are 'full' will be made hungry because
hunger is BAD.
"Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry" means HUNGER IS
BAD
Chung twists these quotes to sell his diet and gain fraudulent donations
for his one-man charity. No wonder he dare not set foot inside a church.
The Two Pound Diet is based on a lie, and Chung distorts scripture to
sell it. Expect him to either run away screerching and howling, or do a
furious little foot-stamping jig on Bob Pastorio's grave. Either way
Chung's core lies are exposed and the VICTORY is for the TRUTH of his
vile ways.
tr...@for-me.com
> >numbers as used in t2 if the genetic predisposition for t2 was not
> >there?
"Yes.
Just as it is coronary disease if a person suffers from angina
pectoris even if the genetic predisposition is absent."
No. As currently done diabetes is but a glucose mere number which ignores
what factors may or may not cause that number to change. Chest pain is a
mechanical symptom, analogy not relevant to the question.
> Only about 1/3 of folk with similar weight etc. risks become
> >diabetic.
"Incorrect. Depends on the weight... more specifically on the amount
of VAT."
Incorrect, please present the researcch to the contrary, self absorbed self
serving ignorance of the research does not serve.
> If one is morpidly overweight etc. t2 like diabetic levels
> >could occur as outlined above.
"It occurs when the amount of a person's visceral adipose tissue (VAT)
exceeds his/her body's threshold for expressing frank type-2 diabetes."
Incorrect again, mere wishful opinion to work backwards to make the trash
science two pound diet valid. Again, research or no go.
> >Remove the source of the inbalance
"That would the VAT."
Ditto
Everyone has vat, it is having too much that is a problem. It is a normal
endoctrine gland for energy storage and source of hormones for energy
metabolism within normal ranges.
BrG...@gmail.com
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> ... we don't.
See, that is part of your problem. You don't (see). Doctors, actual
physicians with real medical practices, who see actual patients, do.
"Quackery is a sin." -- Holly Spit
Amen.
Wiser to post less, down to the optimal amount thereby becoming a
responsible person.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/d559bc684dd89f
--
Mr. Chung's behavior simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely
Michael F. Poellot
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>It does not help people lose the VAT that causes poor health.
>
>The late Dr. Atkins would be an example.
>
>When he died, he had severe heart disease despite being a
>cardiologist.
>
What kind of heart disease did Dr Atkins have ? Cardiomyopathy ? CAD
?
MP
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >It does not help people lose the VAT that causes poor health.
> >
> >The late Dr. Atkins would be an example.
> >
> >When he died, he had severe heart disease despite being a
> >cardiologist.
>
>
> What kind of heart disease did Dr Atkins have ? Cardiomyopathy ? CAD
> ?
According to a CNN report, he had suffered a heart attack and been
diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in April 2002. At death in April 2004,
his weight was reportedly 258 lbs. My condolences to his friends and
family who survive him.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/02/16/atkins.widow/index.html
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Michael F. Poellot
<hear...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>Michael F. Poellot wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> >It does not help people lose the VAT that causes poor health.
>> >
>> >The late Dr. Atkins would be an example.
>> >
>> >When he died, he had severe heart disease despite being a
>> >cardiologist.
>>
>>
>> What kind of heart disease did Dr Atkins have ? Cardiomyopathy ? CAD
>> ?
>
>According to a CNN report, he had suffered a heart attack and been
>diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in April 2002. At death in April 2004,
>his weight was reportedly 258 lbs. My condolences to his friends and
>family who survive him.
It would be interesting to know his blood work. I am sure that his
one-sided no-carb fat-only diet approach could have resulted in an
undesirable lipid profile probably causing CAD. Was he hypertensive,
too ??
Michael
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >Michael F. Poellot wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >>
> >> >It does not help people lose the VAT that causes poor health.
> >> >
> >> >The late Dr. Atkins would be an example.
> >> >
> >> >When he died, he had severe heart disease despite being a
> >> >cardiologist.
> >>
> >>
> >> What kind of heart disease did Dr Atkins have ? Cardiomyopathy ? CAD
> >> ?
> >
> >According to a CNN report, he had suffered a heart attack and been
> >diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in April 2002. At death in April 2004,
> >his weight was reportedly 258 lbs. My condolences to his friends and
> >family who survive him.
>
>
> It would be interesting to know his blood work. I am sure that his
> one-sided no-carb fat-only diet approach could have resulted in an
> undesirable lipid profile probably causing CAD.
The diet he advocated was low-carb, with increased protein and fat.
His was not a fat-only diet.
> Was he hypertensive, too ??
Though the coroner report has been released to the public, full
medical records have understandably not been.
tr...@for-me.com
records have understandably not been."
The first required by law, the second not released for privacy laws.
His relatives could decide to do so, or not as they choose.
Be a good example, release yours.
God bless.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Already have via the book, Be Hungry:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
May your suffering in the lake of fire that awaits you, satan, be
excruciatingly painful beyond all imagining and as everlasting.
Thus, you, satan, have been both cursed and rebuked in Jesus' most
precious and holy name.
Prayerfully in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Servant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
tr...@is-better.com
medical
> records have understandably not been."
>
> The first required by law, the second not released for privacy laws.
> His relatives could decide to do so, or not as they choose.
>
> Be a good example, release yours.
"Already have via the book, Be Hungry:"
Nope, not good enough, a photo copy of *ALL* your formal medical records
with signatures from all sources showing all diagnosis records if you
please. Better still, a blanket permision to all your docs to discuss
in public all your medical history.
May God bless and protect you and provide peace.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> medical
> > records have understandably not been."
> >
> > The first required by law, the second not released for privacy laws.
> > His relatives could decide to do so, or not as they choose.
> >
> > Be a good example, release yours.
>
> "Already have via the book, Be Hungry:
>
> "
>
> Nope, not good enough
There is nothing better than what the Great Physician has wrought with
HIS healing hands. All whom HE has touched and blessed with bringing
back from the dead no longer have medical problems:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Healer.asp
May you suffer infinitely exceedingly excruciating pain, satan, when
you are cast into that lake of fire which awaits to consume you for
the rest of eternity.
Thus, I curse and rebuke you yet again, satan, in Jesus' most precious
and holy name.
Prayerfully in the awesome power of the Holy Spirit,
Abrams1117
<and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> satan via a sockpuppet (demon) hissed:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > "Though the coroner report has been released to the public, full
> > medical
> > > records have understandably not been."
>
> > > The first required by law, the second not released for privacy laws.
> > > His relatives could decide to do so, or not as they choose.
>
> > > Be a good example, release yours.
>
> > "Already have via the book, Be Hungry:
>
> >http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
> > "
>
> > Nope, not good enough
>
> There is nothing better than what the Great Physician has wrought with
> HIS healing hands. All whom HE has touched and blessed with bringing
> back from the dead no longer have medical problems:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Healer.asp
>
> May you suffer infinitely exceedingly excruciating pain, satan, when
> you are cast into that lake of fire which awaits to consume you for
> the rest of eternity.
>
> Thus, I curse and rebuke you yet again, satan, in Jesus' most precious
> and holy name.
Even another cherub didn't dare to do what you just did. Read Jude. G-
D Judges.
> Prayerfully in the awesome power of the Holy Spirit,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Servant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > satan via a sockpuppet (demon) hissed:
> >
> > > > "Though the coroner report has been released to the public, full
> > > medical
> > > > records have understandably not been."
> >
> > > > The first required by law, the second not released for privacy laws.
> > > > His relatives could decide to do so, or not as they choose.
> >
> > > > Be a good example, release yours.
> >
> > > "Already have via the book, Be Hungry:
> >
> > >http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
> > > "
> >
> > > Nope, not good enough
> >
> > There is nothing better than what the Great Physician has wrought with
> > HIS healing hands. All whom HE has touched and blessed with bringing
> > back from the dead no longer have medical problems:
> >
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Healer.asp
> >
> > May you suffer infinitely exceedingly excruciating pain, satan, when
> > you are cast into that lake of fire which awaits to consume you for
> > the rest of eternity.
> >
> > Thus, I curse and rebuke you yet again, satan, in Jesus' most precious
> > and holy name.
>
> Even another cherub didn't dare to do what you just did.
GOD has not shaped me as a cherub.
> Read Jude.
Read Matthew 19:26
> G-D Judges.
GOD has indeed judged satan and has cast satan down from heaven.
It remains my choice to continue to receive the guidance of the Holy
Spirit in everything I say, do, and write:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more
special...
... we are simply forgiven by GOD:
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/
May you wisely choose to be forgiven too by publicly declaring with
your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist
tr...@is-best.com
Spirit in everything I say, do, and write:"
And you, and I, being mere flawed humans wishing always for the above
however are not so blessed. As flawed humans we are unable to
distinguish our wishfull thinking from divine direction in so many
things.
Which is why you have been advised repeatably to seek spiritual guidance
in another person external to your own imagination in order that you do
not fall into that trap.
We might have a conceit and a vanity of mind to think we are different,
but we are not. Read again the letters of St. Paul wherein he reveals
his struggles in this area. Knowing of his weakness he distinguishes
between what he had been taught from the followers of Christ concerning
divine matters and those of his own opinion.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "It remains my choice to continue to receive the guidance of the Holy
> Spirit in everything I say, do, and write:
>
> "
> And you, and I, being mere flawed humans wishing always for the above
> however are not so blessed.
Lie.
You, satan, are not human but rather an ancient dragon with incretins
in your spit that you wish to pass off as a cure for type-2 diabetes:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/0e3f06817d9621ff?
In Jesus' most precious and holy name, I rebuke you, satan, yet again.
May you suffer terribly excruciating and everlasting pain when you,
satan, are cast into that burning lake of fire that awaits you.
Prayerfully in the infinite power of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Servant of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
tr...@is-better.com
> Spirit in everything I say, do, and write:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
> "
> And you, and I, being mere flawed humans wishing always for the above
> however are not so blessed.
"Lie.
You, satan, are not human but rather an ancient dragon with incretins
in your spit that you wish to pass off as a cure for type-2 diabetes:"
May God bless and protect you and provide peace.
flyingrat
heart...@emorycardiology.com says...
> Lie.
>
truth
--
Andrew Chung:
Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number)
Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days
Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely
bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover
onto food.
Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.
Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as
"being
on vacation".
Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.
Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the
blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they
pass away.
flyingrat
you really could not make this shit up. Chung is accusing people of
being dragons now
Fr
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
LORD Almighty GOD has. Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to
my LORD for HIS blessings, protection, and peace. Laus Deo !
May your pain and suffering be infinite and everlasting when you are
cast into the lake of fire that awaits you, satan.
In Jesus' most holy and precious name, I again curse and rebuke you,
satan.
Prayerfully in the awesome power and might of the Holy Spirit,
flyingrat
heart...@emorycardiology.com says...
> LORD Almighty GOD has. Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to
> my LORD for HIS blessings, protection, and peace. Laus Deo !
>
> May your pain and suffering be infinite and everlasting when you are
> cast into the lake of fire that awaits you, satan.
>
> In Jesus' most holy and precious name, I again curse and rebuke you,
> satan.
>
> Prayerfully in the awesome power and might of the Holy Spirit,
>
as he is issuing new commandments, does that not mean Chung is again
setting himself up as a prophet? The messenger of God?
"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not
commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods,
must be put to death."
"You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not
been spoken by the Lord?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the
Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has
not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of
him" (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV).
So as Chung prophesied earthquakes, nuclear wars, the destruction of
Tehran (complete with dates) and the rest, that qualifies him firmly as
a false prophet. No doubt his St Chung the Baptist fantasy will continue
unabated.
FR
percy
Well he's not doing a very good job. I thought he was accusing you of
being a gila monster.
я黨wぃf
pinched out a steaming pile
of<MPG.211ed7b7f...@news.readfreenews.net>:
ZOMG! Well dont anyone tell him to start looking in alt.fan.dragons
then...
Not to mention furries who are "scalies"...
:)
Daedalus
That's the kind of guy *I* want to get medical advice from!
Jade
BrG...@gmail.com
but obviously convicted by the Holy Spirit wrote:
> May you suffer infinitely exceedingly excruciating pain, satan, when
> you are cast into that lake of fire which awaits to consume you for
> the rest of eternity.
And this from someone who **claims** to be a Christian.
Name-calling is "the use of offensive names especially to win an
argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or
project) without objective consideration of the facts."
Source: http://m-w.com/dictionary/name-calling
"Quackery is a sin." -- Holly Spit
Amen.
Wiser to post less, down to the optimal amount thereby becoming a
responsible person.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/d559bc684dd89f
--
Mr. Chung's name-calling behavior simply shows that the Holy Spirit is