How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01
Christian Person
---------------------------------
| How to Become a Christian |
| Version 1.01, August, 2004 |
---------------------------------
Introduction
------------
Some people think a personal relationship with God is something only
theologians can comprehend. Actually, God's plan of salvation is
simple enough for everyone to understand. Here are the ABCs of
salvation.
Admit
-----
Admit to God that you are a sinner. All persons need salvation. Each
of us has a problem that the Bible calls sin. Sin is a refusal to
acknowledge God's authority over our lives. Everyone who does not
live a life of perfect obedience to the Lord in guilty of sin. "For
all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
Since none of us are perfect, all of us are sinners (Romans 3:10-18).
The result of sin is spiritual death (Romans 6:23). Spiritual death
means eternal separation from God. By God's perfect standard we are
guilty of sin and therefore subject to the punishment for sin, which
is separation from God. Admitting that you are a sinner and separated
from God is the first step of repentance, which is turning from sin
and self and turning toward God.
Believe
-------
Believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son and receive Jesus' gift of
forgiveness from sin. God loves each of us. God offers us salvation.
Although we have done nothing to deserve His love and salvation, God
wants to save us. In the death of Jesus on the cross, God provided
salvation for all who would repent of their sins and believe in Jesus.
"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so
that everyone who believe in Him will not perish but will have eternal
life" (John 3:16).
Confess
-------
Confess to others your faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord. After you
have received Him into your life, share your decision with another
person. Tell your pastor or a Christian friend about your decision.
Following Christ's example, ask for baptism by immersion in your local
church as a public expression of your faith. "If you confess with
your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised
Him from the dead, you will be saved. With the heart one believes,
resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses,
resulting in salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).
Comments concerning this public service announcement will be taken
under advisement via comm...@truthrus.org.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here on Usenet,
in Christ's holy name.
Amen.
> Comments concerning this public service announcement will be taken
> under advisement via comm...@truthrus.org.
My comments have been sent to you via email.
May God continue to bless your organization today and everyday.
You will be in my prayers, dear brothers and sisters whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48
Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
Jeff
Jeff
gr...@invalid.com
wrote:
>What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>
>Jeff
The way's of Allah are mysterious in the extreme ;-)
listener
$o...@library2.airnews.net:
> What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Nothing, of course. But it does smell like the work of Dr. Chung (see his
ChungFaq that he publishes from time to time). I love his reply! Of course,
the website was registered through Domains By Proxy.
Just more fun and games here in SMC.
L.
Sa...@hell.com
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:9fcab6f7.0408...@posting.google.com...
> May God continue to bless your organization today and everyday.
>
> You will be in my prayers, dear brothers and sisters whom I love.
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> Andrew
Does it comfort you to know that Satan loves you?
Love,
Satan
Life is Hell. Welcome to my world.
George
I find it hard to imagine that anyone, even those who are desperate,
can take anything our resident doctor says seriously, let alone use
his information/advice to determine medical next steps. Sure some of
what he says seems to make sense, and he did finish med school, but we
are definitely dealing with someone who has gone off the deep end.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>
> Jeff
Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
Truth is simple.
It seems the truth bothers you. Sorry about that.
You will be in my prayers to God, in Christ's name, dear neighbor whom I love.
Bob (this one)
> "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
>
>>What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>>
>>Jeff
>
> Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
<LOL> One of my employees told me that Mohammed was the greatest
scientist who ever lived.
What with the Olympics in full swing, I expect Dr. OCD Chung to say
that Jesus was the best tennis player. The best archer. The best pole
vaulter...
I can't wait to see what perverse madness Chung exhibits with this...
> It seems the truth bothers you. Sorry about that.
Poor lackwit Chung can't seem to understand that everybody is poking
at just at Chung. For Chung "truth" is whatever his fingers have
typed. "Truth" no longer needs to actually be true. Much more
convenient that way.
Bob
SomeGuy
> I find it hard to imagine that anyone, even those who are desperate,
> can take anything our resident doctor says seriously, let alone use
> his information/advice to determine medical next steps. Sure some of
> what he says seems to make sense, and he did finish med school, but we
> are definitely dealing with someone who has gone off the deep end.
Especially this whole "truth discernment" thing. I'd hate to think he uses
that for diagnosis "No need for blood tests, I'll use my God-given gifts to
determine what's wrong with you!"
It's a shame, really, because he'd probably be a very cool guy if he wasn't
so full of himself.
SomeGuy
> I don't think Christ would be a crossposting spammer of newsgroups.
> Seems to me he and the boys always got a park permit and set up shop
> so folks could come to them if they wanted to hear the word. Or
> they'd go to a local church and then hand out flyers to spread the
> word that they were in town. Or they might even chat you up at the
> market or do a miracle to drum up business while taking a walk. But
> they'd leave you alone if you let them know you weren't interested.
> Heck, they might even set up a soup kitchen and feed the hungry to
> help get their message across. But, no brow beating pressure sales
> techniques. Well, maybe John the baptist was a little bit zealous.
> ;) However, these neo-pseudo Christians are sometimes an
> embarassment. At least that's how I see it. YMMV.
Well, I guess Andrew figures that if it worked for Tomás de Torquemada, it
could work for him.
MU
> What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
Pretty much everything I would think.
listener
news:9fcab6f7.04082...@posting.google.com:
> Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
> Andrew
...and he just lost his overtime benefits. Shame.
L.
Bob (this one)
And, of course, therein lies your problem, MU_cus.
Bob
Beav
"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:10ikg0...@corp.supernews.com...
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
> >
> >>What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >
> > Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
>
> <LOL> One of my employees told me that Mohammed was the greatest
> scientist who ever lived.
>
> What with the Olympics in full swing, I expect Dr. OCD Chung to say
> that Jesus was the best tennis player. The best archer. The best pole
> vaulter...
He was a fucking good nail catcher by all accounts.
MU
> On 23 Aug 2004 04:06:02 -0700, nos...@heartmdphd.com (Dr. Andrew B.
> Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
>>SpammerPerson <spa...@truthrus.org> wrote in message news:
>>> | How to Become a Christian |
>>> | Version 1.01, August, 2004 |
>
> I don't think Christ would be a crossposting spammer of newsgroups.
I think Christ was the original "xposter" of all time, MOF.
> Seems to me he and the boys always got a park permit and set up shop
> so folks could come to them if they wanted to hear the word. Or
> they'd go to a local church and then hand out flyers to spread the
> word that they were in town. Or they might even chat you up at the
> market or do a miracle to drum up business while taking a walk. But
> they'd leave you alone if you let them know you weren't interested.
I would say the NT disagrees with you.
> Heck, they might even set up a soup kitchen and feed the hungry to
> help get their message across. But, no brow beating pressure sales
> techniques.
I would say the NT disagrees with you.
> Well, maybe John the baptist was a little bit zealous.
> ;) However, these neo-pseudo Christians are sometimes an
> embarassment.
Who are the pseodo-Christians?
> At least that's how I see it. YMMV.
Not my mileage, the Truth.
Steve Harris sbharris@ROMAN9.netcom.com
> Christian Person <chri...@truthrus.org> wrote in message news:<tllii09o9ccmkd3c8...@4ax.com>...
> > ---------------------------------
> > | How to Become a Christian |
> > | Version 1.01, August, 2004 |
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > Introduction
> > ------------
> > Some people think a personal relationship with God is something only
> > theologians can comprehend. Actually, God's plan of salvation is
> > simple enough for everyone to understand. Here are the ABCs of
> > salvation.
> >
> > Admit
> > -----
> > Admit to God that you are a sinner. All persons need salvation. Each
> > of us has a problem that the Bible calls sin. Sin is a refusal to
> > acknowledge God's authority over our lives. Everyone who does not
> > live a life of perfect obedience to the Lord in guilty of sin.
COMMENT:
Ahem. Excuse me? The "Lord" is silent. He doesn't send me email. He
doesn't appear in my bathroom. He doesn't knock on my door, unless
he's dressed like a JW or Mormon missionary. So it's rather a problem
knowing what he wants. Or even that he exists.
>"For
> > all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
> > Since none of us are perfect, all of us are sinners (Romans 3:10-18).
COMMENT:
Sorry, but you're quoting from some old writings whose relevence is
not in evidence. Why are you not quoting from the Hindu scriptures, or
the Qu'ran?
> > The result of sin is spiritual death (Romans 6:23).
COMMENT:
Says who? And how do we know they speak the truth?
>>Spiritual death
> > means eternal separation from God.
COMMENT:
Says who? And since god is silent, separation from him is sort of
what we have now, is it not?
>By God's perfect standard we are
> > guilty of sin and therefore subject to the punishment for sin, which
> > is separation from God.
COMMENT:
By god's perfect standard? Any parent who had the standard that his
or her children were required to obey absolutely perfectly on every
matter at all times and all places, or be cut off forever, would be a
complete ass. Why do I have to explain this to you? Has your
religion perverted your sense of fairness, decency, and basic humanity
to the point that you can no longer recognize a viciously impossible
set of rules? How sad for you. Is this what "Christianity" does to the
human mind? Yeech.
Here's fair question: if YOU were god, would you have set similar
impossible standards? If so, I pity you. You'd certainly suck at your
eternal job. You'd certainly suck even as a human being and human
parent, let alone as a deity.
> Admitting that you are a sinner and separated
> > from God is the first step of repentance, which is turning from sin
> > and self and turning toward God.
COMMENT:
If being a sinner is simply being imperfect, there's nothing to admit,
since we obviously are imperfect. So what's the point?
> > Believe
> > -------
> > Believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son and receive Jesus' gift of
> > forgiveness from sin. God loves each of us. God offers us salvation.
> > Although we have done nothing to deserve His love and salvation, God
> > wants to save us.
COMMENT:
Well, then, why doesn't he just do it and be done with it? This stuff
about his having to send his son to Earth is certainly overly
complicated, overly painful, and frankly makes no sense whatsoever.
>> In the death of Jesus on the cross, God provided
> > salvation for all who would repent of their sins and believe in Jesus.
> > "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so
> > that everyone who believe in Him will not perish but will have eternal
> > life" (John 3:16).
COMMENT:
This is the part that makes no sense at all. Why should it matter what
people believe? Why did god have to send his "son" (in what sense is
Jesus a "sun") to save imperfect people from being cut off?
> > Confess
> > -------
> > Confess to others your faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord. After you
> > have received Him into your life, share your decision with another
> > person. Tell your pastor or a Christian friend about your decision.
COMMENT:
Why? All this sounds like forming a social club, preparatory to
fleecing people with collections and tithes. I suppose Christianity
and the strange salvation you discuss above wouldn't be very
interesting if everybody didn't gather to yak about it? And trade
money for various promises, and as protections against various
threats?
> > Following Christ's example, ask for baptism by immersion in your local
> > church as a public expression of your faith.
COMMENT:
Again, facts not in evidence. We have the problem of why we should
believe the Christian scripture and not somebody elses. Even if we
believe the Christian scripture, we don't see anything in the baptism
of Jesus that specifies "immersion" or a "local church". If anything,
the opposite is implied.
> "If you confess with
> > your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised
> > Him from the dead, you will be saved. With the heart one believes,
> > resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses,
> > resulting in salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).
COMMENT:
Sorry, makes no sense at all.
> > Comments concerning this public service announcement will be taken
> > under advisement via comm...@truthrus.org.
COMMENT:
Sorry, it's a tale of a god far more vicious than your average child
abuser, with a Rube Goldberg plan for fixing things up which is one
part sadism, one part needless showmanship, and two parts ritual
magic. To which is added a bunch of human institutions whose only
purpose seems to be public displays of emotion, for purposes of
induction of mass psychosis, and the collection of money. And the
gaining of social power by people articulate enough to run such shows.
I'm gunna pass. I won't even say "Thanks for the thought" since the
thoughts you've given us are utterly disgusting (and so are the shows)
and contribute nothing to humanity. (Unless you count Jimmy Swaggart
and Gene Scott as contributions). If anything, I wish these weird
ideas had never been thought of at all. Whoever first did, must have
been a sick puppy indeed. Saul of Tarsus needed some Haldol in the
worst way.
And you the poster: Wake up! Grow up! This is complete idiocy and
crap! Try thinking for yourself, even for just a few seconds, and
you'll begin to see how nutso all this is.
SBH
marengo
| May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here on Usenet,
| in Christ's holy name.
God doesn't bless spam you idiot.
You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians a
bad name by breaking rules, being condescending, patronizing and obnoxious
thereby turning many people off to the otherwise beautiful Word of God.
Every time you post these off-topic corssposts you break His heart and drive
the nails in His hands again.
I'll pray for you, that you will see the evil of your ways and stop serving
the other master.
--
Peter
270/215/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html
marengo
||
|| I don't think Christ would be a crossposting spammer of newsgroups.
|
|
|| Seems to me he and the boys always got a park permit and set up shop
|| so folks could come to them if they wanted to hear the word. Or
|| they'd go to a local church and then hand out flyers to spread the
|| word that they were in town. Or they might even chat you up at the
|| market or do a miracle to drum up business while taking a walk. But
|| they'd leave you alone if you let them know you weren't interested.
|
| I would say the NT disagrees with you.
Then you merely emphasize your ignorance. If you really believe that the
Word of God teaches Chistians to win souls by being obnoxious then you are
very sad.
Bob (this one)
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:53:14 GMT, Lee Rodgers wrote:
>
>> On 23 Aug 2004 04:06:02 -0700, nos...@heartmdphd.com (Dr. Andrew
>> B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>>
>>> SpammerPerson <spa...@truthrus.org> wrote in message news:
>>>
>>>> | How to Become a Christian |
>>>> | Version 1.01, August, 2004 |
>
>> I don't think Christ would be a crossposting spammer of
>> newsgroups.
>
> I think Christ was the original "xposter" of all time, MOF.
You'd have to say that after your sanctimonious pleading yesterday
that you're so honest and Christlike yourself and that you wouldn't
lie because Chung and Jesus would know it. Haven't had a laugh like
that since Chung said 2 pounds of bread contains 4000 calories.
I bet you forgot that Jesus said, in essence, to all things as
appropriate. You know that "render unto Caesar" thing... That means
there are some things one does and others one does not. All except for
you radical fundies who can do whatever you want because you believe
in "Christianity Lite" - nothing too inconvenient.
>> Seems to me he and the boys always got a park permit and set up
>> shop so folks could come to them if they wanted to hear the word.
>> Or they'd go to a local church and then hand out flyers to spread
>> the word that they were in town. Or they might even chat you up
>> at the market or do a miracle to drum up business while taking a
>> walk. But they'd leave you alone if you let them know you
>> weren't interested.
>
> I would say the NT disagrees with you.
You'd say that the NT says that no matter what you do, if you believe,
you get a "get out of hell free" card. Ever read the sermon on the
mount? Too bad for you, MU_s.
>> Heck, they might even set up a soup kitchen and feed the hungry
>> to help get their message across. But, no brow beating pressure
>> sales techniques.
>
> I would say the NT disagrees with you.
That's because you don't get it. And because you know no history.
You're one of those idiot zealots who think the world was created 50
years ago, just for you. Funny how of the billions and billions of
Christians, only a few wacko fundies like you buy that idea of
berating folks into believing.
>> Well, maybe John the baptist was a little bit zealous. ;)
>> However, these neo-pseudo Christians are sometimes an
>> embarassment.
>
> Who are the pseodo-Christians?
Mirror, mirror on the wall...
You, MU_mbles, are the pseudo-Christian. Your actions speak volumes.
Your words doom you. Your ideas about Christlike behavior show you to
be shallow, smug and wrong. Phony Christians. Self-described
Christians that no normal, rational person would agree with.
>> At least that's how I see it. YMMV.
>
> Not my mileage, the Truth.
<LOL> AS if you could know the truth if it bit you on your
surgically-corrected ass...
Off with you, MU_scid. Flex those powerful biceps (if you actually
have them) and lift something heavy. Play to your strengths, I always
say. Even if you only have one.
Bob
Jeff
> "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
> > What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
Unless you can give verifiable and falsifiable evidence that Christ was a
great physician.
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
>
> Truth is simple.
>
> It seems the truth bothers you. Sorry about that.
>
> You will be in my prayers to God, in Christ's name, dear neighbor whom I
love.
Please, save your prays for your patients.
Jeff
listener
$a...@library2.airnews.net:
>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:9fcab6f7.04082...@posting.google.com...
>> "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
>> > What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>> >
>> > Jeff
>>
>> Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
>
> This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
>
You're wasting your time, as have many before you.
Dr. Chung is a bit of a (very predictable) loon. (I know, Dr. Chung -
<hiss, hiss, snip, snip>, why do I hate Christians?, I'm in your prayers,
blah, blah, blah...etc.. etc...).
Have a nice day.
L
Carey Gregory
>This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
Of course it doesn't belong here, and his refusal to honor the charters of
these groups is abuse. Repeatedly posting off-topic is a violation of the
AUP for both his ISP (bellsouth) and google, where he's posting from.
If you would like to put a stop to Chung's abuse, one polite complaint from
each person here would probably do the job. The complaint addresses are
ab...@bellsouth.net and groups...@google.com
Include a copy of an offending post with all the headers in your complaint.
(The easiest way to ensure you get all the headers is to forward the post
rather than trying to copy and paste it.)
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> | May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here on Usenet,
> | in Christ's holy name.
>
> God doesn't bless spam you idiot.
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
> You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians
Have you accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
> a
> bad name by breaking rules,
Whose rules have I broken?
> being condescending, patronizing and obnoxious
Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you.
> thereby turning many people off to the otherwise beautiful Word of God.
Truth has this effect on the untruthful (shrug).
> Every time you post these off-topic corssposts you break His heart and drive
> the nails in His hands again.
It seems you are the one who is suffering and not Him whom I serve with
all my heart, soul, and mind. Sorry the OP bothers you.
>
> I'll pray for you,
Thanks.
> that you will see the evil of your ways and stop serving
> the other master.
Whom do you believe I am serving?
> --
> Peter
You remain in my prayers to God, dear neighbor whom I love, may you
accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior someday, so that you too
will have eternal life and the incredible riches of His everlasting
kingdom.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:9fcab6f7.04082...@posting.google.com...
> > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
> > > What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
>
> This is religion, not science.
Many are able to think about both at the same time.
> It does not belong in this newsgroup.
Discussion about physicians does belong in this newsgroup.
> Unless you can give verifiable and falsifiable evidence that Christ was a
> great physician.
I have given evidence. Discussion of such evidence does belong in this
newsgroup.
> > http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
> >
> > Truth is simple.
> >
> > It seems the truth bothers you. Sorry about that.
> >
> > You will be in my prayers to God, in Christ's name, dear neighbor whom I
> love.
>
> Please, save your prays for your patients.
Though I pray for them, it seems you need my prayers more, dear neighbor
whom I love.
> Jeff
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior someday so that
you too will have eternal life and the fathomless riches of His
everlasting kingdom.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
>
> Of course it doesn't belong here, and his refusal to honor the charters of
> these groups is abuse. Repeatedly posting off-topic is a violation of the
> AUP for both his ISP (bellsouth) and google, where he's posting from.
>
> If you would like to put a stop to Chung's abuse, one polite complaint from
> each person here would probably do the job. The complaint addresses are
> ab...@bellsouth.net and groups...@google.com
Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
Ever wonder about the possibility that the good folks at Bellsouth and
Google might also be Christians and that such complaints might be
falling on deaf ears especially during this time when America needs
God's blessings now more than ever?
> Include a copy of an offending post with all the headers in your complaint.
> (The easiest way to ensure you get all the headers is to forward the post
> rather than trying to copy and paste it.)
That would help them discern that I did not start this thread though I
will freely admit that I encouraged it.
Nonetheless, you remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
MB
original ass-nine post.
I'm amused at the propensity of so many folks to blindly believe in the most
absurd fairy tales called religion.
LOL
MB
"marengo" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:2ovcdhF...@uni-berlin.de...
Daniel Prince
>And you the poster: Wake up! Grow up! This is complete idiocy and
>crap! Try thinking for yourself, even for just a few seconds, and
>you'll begin to see how nutso all this is.
One thing that really bothers me about bible thumpers is that when
someone says that the bible has been translated several times and that
errors must have crept in, they say that the translators prayed while
they translated it so the translations have no errors.
I would LOVE to run a test where several translators were required to
translate a long, difficult, ancient Greek text completely independently
with as much prayer as they want to use. I would be VERY surprised if
the translations were all identical which they would be if prayer really
insured perfect results.
--
I give my child a substance that he absolutely LOVES.
He sniffs it, snorts it, eats it and rolls around on
the floor in it. I wonder if this makes me a bad parent.
Eldritch
>
> I would LOVE to run a test where several translators were required to
> translate a long, difficult, ancient Greek text completely independently
> with as much prayer as they want to use. I would be VERY surprised if
> the translations were all identical which they would be if prayer really
> insured perfect results.
Referring to the virgin birth?
E
Carey Gregory
>Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew. Your
abuse of these newsgroups is what bothers me.
>Ever wonder about the possibility that the good folks at Bellsouth and
>Google might also be Christians and that such complaints might be
>falling on deaf ears especially during this time when America needs
>God's blessings now more than ever?
Now you imagine there's a Christian cabal that will protect you? Sorry, but
most Christians don't share your warped view of Christianity as a license to
trample the rights of others as you do. I assure you that even the most
fervently Christian news admin will enforce their AUP if enough people
notify them of your abuse.
>That would help them discern that I did not start this thread though I
>will freely admit that I encouraged it.
Yeah, right. I've seen too many lies and too many sock puppets out of you,
Andrew. Your word is worthless. But whether you started this thread or not
-- and I'm confident you did -- there's no shortage of posts from you to
form the basis for actionable complaints.
REP
Carey Gregory <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
>
> I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
Neither does he. He apparently doesn't think Matthew 7:21-23 applies to
him.
--
"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather
severesocialanxiety
> ---------------------------------
> | Version 1.01, August, 2004 |
>
> Introduction
> ------------
> Some people think a personal relationship with God is something only
> theologians can comprehend. Actually, God's plan of salvation is
> simple enough for everyone to understand. Here are the ABCs of
> salvation.
>
> Admit
> -----
> Admit to God that you are a sinner. All persons need salvation. Each
> of us has a problem that the Bible calls sin. Sin is a refusal to
> acknowledge God's authority over our lives. Everyone who does not
> all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
> Since none of us are perfect, all of us are sinners (Romans 3:10-18).
>
> means eternal separation from God. By God's perfect standard we are
> guilty of sin and therefore subject to the punishment for sin, which
> from God is the first step of repentance, which is turning from sin
> and self and turning toward God.
>
>
> -------
> Believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son and receive Jesus' gift of
> forgiveness from sin. God loves each of us. God offers us salvation.
> Although we have done nothing to deserve His love and salvation, God
> salvation for all who would repent of their sins and believe in Jesus.
> "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so
> that everyone who believe in Him will not perish but will have eternal
> life" (John 3:16).
>
>
> -------
> Confess to others your faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord. After you
> have received Him into your life, share your decision with another
> person. Tell your pastor or a Christian friend about your decision.
> your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised
> Him from the dead, you will be saved. With the heart one believes,
> resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses,
> resulting in salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).
>
>
> under advisement via comm...@truthrus.org.
religious belief is mental illness.
J. David Anderson
Prepare to be very surprised then.
There is little problem with translating the Greek language, and Jesus,
James etc., spoke modern Greek, not ancient Greek. Ancient Greek is the
Greek language *prior* to the Roman empire.
There are some problems with dead languages, i.e., ancient Hebrew, but
even then, any scholar capable of translating from that language would
be in pretty close agreement with any other scholar.
It is a common misconception that there can be a wide range of
interpretations in translation, the difficulty is in the intended
meaning of the translated text in modern terms, not in accuracy of
translation.
There are inconsistencies in the Bible, but they are not related to
translation.
Don't forget that the Bible, originally the Jewish Books of Law, wasn't
consecrated into scripture until the Church was well established, many
years after Christ's death. The Church at that time was riddled with
corruption and self serving men in high office. It hasn't changed much
since those days.
Regards
David
Jeff
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:412ACD...@heartmdphd.com...
> Carey Gregory wrote:
> >
> > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
> >
> > Of course it doesn't belong here, and his refusal to honor the charters
of
> > these groups is abuse. Repeatedly posting off-topic is a violation of
the
> > AUP for both his ISP (bellsouth) and google, where he's posting from.
> >
> > If you would like to put a stop to Chung's abuse, one polite complaint
from
> > each person here would probably do the job. The complaint addresses are
> > ab...@bellsouth.net and groups...@google.com
>
> Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
Doesn't bother me at all. Your preaching in a newsgroup does.
> Ever wonder about the possibility that the good folks at Bellsouth and
> Google might also be Christians and that such complaints might be
> falling on deaf ears especially during this time when America needs
> God's blessings now more than ever?
No, the Christian thing to do is to obey the rules and do your preaching in
the appropriate newsgroups.
> > Include a copy of an offending post with all the headers in your
complaint.
> > (The easiest way to ensure you get all the headers is to forward the
post
> > rather than trying to copy and paste it.)
>
> That would help them discern that I did not start this thread though I
> will freely admit that I encouraged it.
>
> Nonetheless, you remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
If you are a servant to the hublest person in the universe, doesn't that
make you more humble?
Or full of....
Jeff
Jeff
"Carey Gregory" <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f0pli0t250gh9q2mh...@4ax.com...
(...)
> Sorry, but
> most Christians don't share your warped view of Christianity as a license
to
> trample the rights of others as you do.
I can think of a few who work in wash. D.C. who do. Unfortunately, one of
them lives at 1600 PA Ave.
Jeff
Nico Kadel-Garcia
"J. David Anderson" <jdavida...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ilFWc.250$HO4....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Prepare to be very surprised then.
>
> There is little problem with translating the Greek language, and Jesus,
> James etc., spoke modern Greek, not ancient Greek. Ancient Greek is the
> Greek language *prior* to the Roman empire.
Jesus spoke Aramaic, and probably good Hebrew as a good Jewish boy. There's
not the slightest hint that he spoke Greek or Latin. Greek is the language
that materials written many, many years after his death were recorded in,
but given the lack of verifiable documents that were not re-recorded and
re-translated on for King James's scholars to work with, it's extremely
unlikely that they had a single original document written by any of the
literary apostles to work from.
Take a look at the various Gnostic questions, the probable existence of the
"Q" document from which several of the gospels drew common material, and the
degree of direct overlap among the gospels of exact word and phrase, not
simply similar stories. You've got evidence of clear literary mixing of
distinct original materials.
> There are some problems with dead languages, i.e., ancient Hebrew, but
> even then, any scholar capable of translating from that language would
> be in pretty close agreement with any other scholar.
>
> It is a common misconception that there can be a wide range of
> interpretations in translation, the difficulty is in the intended
> meaning of the translated text in modern terms, not in accuracy of
> translation.
>
> There are inconsistencies in the Bible, but they are not related to
> translation.
BWA-HA-HA! OK, what about the Greek word for "Brother" being similar to the
word for "cousin", and the possibility that the word got mis-translated and
James was actually the brother of Jesus? It kind of throws the whole "Mary
virgin unto birth" thing out the window.
> Don't forget that the Bible, originally the Jewish Books of Law, wasn't
> consecrated into scripture until the Church was well established, many
> years after Christ's death. The Church at that time was riddled with
> corruption and self serving men in high office. It hasn't changed much
> since those days.
Well, that's true, and it's also true that they had and have huge political
arguments that get bound up in very slight phrasing differences or
interpretation of the same documents. We have the same problems interpreting
the Constitution.
MU
>
>||
>|| I don't think Christ would be a crossposting spammer of newsgroups.
>|| Seems to me he and the boys always got a park permit and set up shop
>|| so folks could come to them if they wanted to hear the word. Or
>|| they'd go to a local church and then hand out flyers to spread the
>|| word that they were in town. Or they might even chat you up at the
>|| market or do a miracle to drum up business while taking a walk. But
>|| they'd leave you alone if you let them know you weren't interested.
> MU wrote:
>| I would say the NT disagrees with you.
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:24:55 -0400, marengo wrote:
> Then you merely emphasize your ignorance. If you really believe that the
> Word of God teaches Chistians to win souls by being obnoxious then you are
> very sad.
Christ, obviously, was "obnoxious" enough to get Himself crucified.
Disagree with the NT? Not the point, is it marengo. Your post was a twist
of the above to take a shot at me. That's OK as long as we recognize what
your intents are.
The OP was making one, sweeping statement that is not backed by the NT.
"But they'd leave you alone if you let them know you weren't interested" is
not true across the board. The NT is chocked full of instances of
persistence. Do you think the early Church was borne by a bunch of part
time believers who were bored? "Hey, Apostle Dudes, let's go start a
Christian community in Corinth; who cares if they chop our heads off, we're
bored this decade. This might be fun and we can proselytize on Wednesdays
after 8PM. Nothing else to do."
Sorta like that, eh, marengo?
MU
wrote:
> COMMENT:
> Ahem. Excuse me? The "Lord" is silent. He doesn't send me email. He
> doesn't appear in my bathroom. He doesn't knock on my door, unless
> he's dressed like a JW or Mormon missionary. So it's rather a problem
> knowing what he wants. Or even that he exists.
I would agree, Steve, with no faith you would have no clue.
> COMMENT:
> Says who? And since god is silent, separation from him is sort of
> what we have now, is it not?
My God is not silent and our separation is a matter or temporality vs
supernaturalism. Not in influence, guidance or assistance. Ever present.
> COMMENT:
> By god's perfect standard? Any parent who had the standard that his
> or her children were required to obey absolutely perfectly on every
> matter at all times and all places, or be cut off forever, would be a
> complete ass.
Sure would. Thankfully, we have Christ's Death and Resurrection, His Word
that we are saved regardless of our sins.
> Here's fair question: if YOU were god, would you have set similar
> impossible standards?
I have no idea what being God would be like so I have no way to answer.
>>> Believe
>>> -------
>>> Believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son and receive Jesus' gift of
>>> forgiveness from sin. God loves each of us. God offers us salvation.
>>> Although we have done nothing to deserve His love and salvation, God
>>> wants to save us.
>
> COMMENT:
> Well, then, why doesn't he just do it and be done with it? This stuff
> about his having to send his son to Earth is certainly overly
> complicated, overly painful, and frankly makes no sense whatsoever.
Oh, you are pretentious today, aren't you? Know God's Mind, understand His
plan? I don't. Why do you waste time worrying about something you will
never be able to comprehend? Which part of the definition of "super"natural
do you not understand?
> COMMENT:
> This is the part that makes no sense at all. Why should it matter what
> people believe? Why did god have to send his "son" (in what sense is
> Jesus a "sun") to save imperfect people from being cut off?
See above.
> COMMENT:
> All this sounds like forming a social club, preparatory to
> fleecing people with collections and tithes. I suppose Christianity
> and the strange salvation you discuss above wouldn't be very
> interesting if everybody didn't gather to yak about it? And trade
> money for various promises, and as protections against various
> threats?
If you do not find the concept and promise of immortality interesting, in
and of itself, all human trappings aside, I have no idea *what* you might
find interesting.
> COMMENT:
> We have the problem of why we should
> believe the Christian scripture and not somebody elses. Even if we
> believe the Christian scripture, we don't see anything in the baptism
> of Jesus that specifies "immersion" or a "local church". If anything,
> the opposite is implied.
The problem is solved by faith. Immersion or not is arguable and IMO
inconsequential. It's symbolic and, in the times of the NT, ritualistic as
many Jews and non Jews were ritualistic.
> COMMENT:
>
> Sorry, it's a tale of a god far more vicious than your average child
> abuser, with a Rube Goldberg plan for fixing things up which is one
> part sadism, one part needless showmanship, and two parts ritual
> magic. To which is added a bunch of human institutions whose only
> purpose seems to be public displays of emotion, for purposes of
> induction of mass psychosis, and the collection of money. And the
> gaining of social power by people articulate enough to run such shows.
I see you understand the Mind Of God better than I do. I have no way to
explain why things are as they are and spend little time worrying about
them.
Have humans adulterated Christianity? Of course, what else would you
expect; we adulterate damn near everything?
> I'm gunna pass. I won't even say "Thanks for the thought" since the
> thoughts you've given us are utterly disgusting (and so are the shows)
> and contribute nothing to humanity. (Unless you count Jimmy Swaggart
> and Gene Scott as contributions).
Christians contribute nothing? Ridiculous and you know it. Even those two
miscreants you mentioned have favorable pieces in their lives and I find
them far from my liking.
> If anything, I wish these weird
> ideas had never been thought of at all. Whoever first did, must have
> been a sick puppy indeed. Saul of Tarsus needed some Haldol in the
> worst way.
Yes, those weird ideas will haunt you, worry and nag you, Steve, and for
those who never receive Christ's Blessings, I'll bet it does sting to be
constantly reminded of a fate as certain as Hell.
> And you the original poster: Wake up! Grow up! This is complete idiocy and
> crap! Try thinking for yourself, even for just a few seconds, and
> you'll begin to see how nutso all this is.
>
> SBH
Think for yourself, huh? Good idea. I have and I think that I'll leave
God's business, His plans and His World to Him.
Me, I'll go and try to spend my time on things that don't waste it. Trying
to crawl into the Mind Of God is a waste.
MU
> One thing that really bothers me about bible thumpers is that when
> someone says that the bible has been translated several times and that
> errors must have crept in, they say that the translators prayed while
> they translated it so the translations have no errors.
I would tell you that they are wrong.
> I would LOVE to run a test where several translators were required to
> translate a long, difficult, ancient Greek text completely independently
> with as much prayer as they want to use. I would be VERY surprised if
> the translations were all identical which they would be if prayer really
> insured perfect results.
Surprised? I'd be absolutely dumbfounded.
MU
> God doesn't bless spam you idiot.
You know how God judges, do you? Then tell me, how did He judge Hitler or
Eva Braun?
> You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians a
> bad name by breaking rules, being condescending, patronizing and obnoxious
> thereby turning many people off to the otherwise beautiful Word of God.
You are a Christian? Congratulations. Why are you a "real" one and I am
not? You know God's Mind so explain this to me.
> Every time you post these off-topic corssposts you break His heart and drive
> the nails in His hands again.
Really? And *your* evidence is.......?
> I'll pray for you, that you will see the evil of your ways and stop serving
> the other master.
Thank you.
Btw, who is this "other" master who controls me? Best let both Jesus and I
know.
MU
> WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!!! Your response is almost as ridiculous as the
> original ass-nine post.
>
> I'm amused at the propensity of so many folks to blindly believe in the most
> absurd fairy tales called religion.
>
> LOL
Anyone who blindly believes in anything is a fool. Christians, however, are
not blind.
SomeGuy
> Anyone who blindly believes in anything is a fool. Christians,
> however, are not blind.
Ha, ha, ha! You're too much. Thanks for the laugh, Mu!
SomeGuy
"MU" <muno...@fastmail.fm> wrote ...
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:20:08 -0400, marengo wrote:
>
> > You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians
a
> > bad name by breaking rules, being condescending, patronizing and
obnoxious
> > thereby turning many people off to the otherwise beautiful Word of God.
>
> You are a Christian? Congratulations. Why are you a "real" one and I am
> not? You know God's Mind so explain this to me.
You are not capable of understanding, Mu.
> > Every time you post these off-topic corssposts you break His heart and
drive
> > the nails in His hands again.
>
> Really? And *your* evidence is.......?
No evidence required, only faith.
> Btw, who is this "other" master who controls me? Best let both Jesus and I
> know.
Are you suggesting that Jesus does not know all?
Carey Gregory
>Jeff wrote:
>>
>> This is religion, not science.
>
>Many are able to think about both at the same time.
Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science, but
that doesn't make porn any more appropriate here than religion.
Fact: Religion is completely off-topic in all the groups this thread is
cross-posted to.
>Discussion about physicians does belong in this newsgroup.
According to who? Have you read the charters, Andrew? General discussions
about physicians would be on-topic in only in one of the five groups this
thread is being cross-posted to.
>I have given evidence. Discussion of such evidence does belong in this
>newsgroup.
Not according to the charters it doesn't. Recommend you quit inventing your
own rules, figure out where newsgroup charters are, and read what they
actually say.
Your posts are off-topic. Period. And they constitute abuse due to your
willful, repeated disregard for the charters and many requests to stop
posting off-topic.
Carey Gregory
>Whose rules have I broken?
Your ISP's and Google's.
>Whom do you believe I am serving?
Yourself, as always. You're like a spoiled child stomping his feet and
demanding his way at the expense of everyone else. Most adults are capable
of understanding how usenet works and how it depends on cooperative behavior
by the participants. Apparently, you don't understand -- or don't care.
Given that you were smart enough to obtain two graduate degrees, I conclude
it must be the latter.
Brad Edwards
Oh come on now. Don't you remember the playground code? Being a
tattle-tale never solves anything but making you look like an idiot, and
the person you tattled on getting temporarily punished.
Sure the man is crazy and therefor his posts are crazy as well. But when
people push people like this out they just end up alone in a cabin
somewhere plotting to kill your family and wreaking havoc on society.
Surely there are better solutions.
J. David Anderson
> "J. David Anderson" <jdavida...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ilFWc.250$HO4....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
>
>>Prepare to be very surprised then.
>>
>>There is little problem with translating the Greek language, and Jesus,
>>James etc., spoke modern Greek, not ancient Greek. Ancient Greek is the
>>Greek language *prior* to the Roman empire.
>
>
> Jesus spoke Aramaic, and probably good Hebrew as a good Jewish boy. There's
> not the slightest hint that he spoke Greek or Latin.
You are correct, not the slightest hint.
It goes far beyond a "slight hint". There is a huge amount of evidence
that he spoke a form of common Greek. Romans, since Alexander,
habitually spoke Greek and would be unlikely that they all learned
Aramaic simply in order to speak to a subjugated people. Unless Jesus
also spoke Greek, he could not communicate with them, let alone teach
them. James, Jesus' brother, wrote in Greek.
It would in fact be far more remarkable if he *didn't* speak Greek. He
grew to adulthood under Roman occupation, in an area where "koine",
common Greek was the lingua franca. Why would he be one of the few
people of the region not to be able to do so?
It has been long accepted among Biblical scholars that Jesus spoke
Greek, however, with regard to being germane to my post; it isn't. The
OP claimed a likelihood of wide ranging errors in translating from
Greek. My response was that would be unlikely.
If you wish to believe that Jesus spoke only Aramaic, then far be it
from me to disavow you. I have my opinion, you are quite welcome to yours.
Greek is the language
> that materials written many, many years after his death were recorded in,
> but given the lack of verifiable documents that were not re-recorded and
> re-translated on for King James's scholars to work with, it's extremely
> unlikely that they had a single original document written by any of the
> literary apostles to work from.
You are aware of course, that the King James translation is far from the
only translation, and that in all translations, the difficulty was with
ancient Hebrew, not modern Greek?
> Take a look at the various Gnostic questions,
I asked many of them myself.
the probable existence of the
> "Q" document from which several of the gospels drew common material, and the
> degree of direct overlap among the gospels of exact word and phrase, not
> simply similar stories. You've got evidence of clear literary mixing of
> distinct original materials.
I have no problem with this, I don't have any particular axe to grind
regarding the accuracy of the Bible, nor the likelihood that at the time
of writing, the Gospels had *morphed* as it were. They were a long time
coming, so to speak.
Look at the eighties computer analysis of writing style, ala
Shakespeare/Bacon. It is considered among many, that the authors of the
gospels have been incorrectly attributed. It makes little difference, it
is all of minor consequence.
The Bible itself makes little sense in a modern, educated, thinking
world. It is full of misdirection and inconsistency, not errors in
translation. It mentions dragons, witches and unicorns as though they
were a part of life. It also implies that there are other Gods, not just
the Christian one, why else exhort that people have no other Gods if
there *are* no other Gods? ;)
>>There are some problems with dead languages, i.e., ancient Hebrew, but
>>even then, any scholar capable of translating from that language would
>>be in pretty close agreement with any other scholar.
>>
>>It is a common misconception that there can be a wide range of
>>interpretations in translation, the difficulty is in the intended
>>meaning of the translated text in modern terms, not in accuracy of
>>translation.
>>
>>There are inconsistencies in the Bible, but they are not related to
>>translation.
>
>
> BWA-HA-HA! OK, what about the Greek word for "Brother" being similar to the
> word for "cousin", and the possibility that the word got mis-translated and
> James was actually the brother of Jesus? It kind of throws the whole "Mary
> virgin unto birth" thing out the window.
This is not new, I have Biblical research material going back to the
turn of the last century accepting this as *gospel* <g> I believe, along
with many others, that James *was* the brother of Jesus. This is why I
mentioned him, the fact that he wrote in Greek was an indicator that
Jesus would also speak Greek.
>
>>Don't forget that the Bible, originally the Jewish Books of Law, wasn't
>>consecrated into scripture until the Church was well established, many
>>years after Christ's death. The Church at that time was riddled with
>>corruption and self serving men in high office. It hasn't changed much
>>since those days.
>
>
> Well, that's true, and it's also true that they had and have huge political
> arguments that get bound up in very slight phrasing differences or
> interpretation of the same documents. We have the same problems interpreting
> the Constitution.
That is what I said. The problem is not of translation, but of
discerning original meaning, the intent of the author.
As far as I am concerned, the Church was stillborn, it died at birth,
and the extent of the decay is becoming more apparent with every news
story regarding corruption, child abuse, and disregard of Christian
attitude. For centuries the corruption existed but the Church had the
power to protect itself from accusers. Nowadays when even Presidents
can't hide their misdoings from the public eye and retributory justice,
organisations as archaic and venal as the Church have become just as
vulnerable to exposure.
Jesus didn't leave a Church, that was man made, and being man made, was
flawed from the start. Whether you believe Jesus was the son of God or
not, he was a genuine historical figure who set examples worth
following. Leave the Church and the Bible out of it and you might have
something worthwhile.
Regards
David
Steve Harris sbharris@ROMAN9.netcom.com
> On 23 Aug 2004 16:10:03 -0700, Steve Harris sbha...@ROMAN9.netcom.com
> wrote:
>
> > COMMENT:
> > Ahem. Excuse me? The "Lord" is silent. He doesn't send me email. He
> > doesn't appear in my bathroom. He doesn't knock on my door, unless
> > he's dressed like a JW or Mormon missionary. So it's rather a problem
> > knowing what he wants. Or even that he exists.
>
> I would agree, Steve, with no faith you would have no clue.
COMMENT:
I shouldn't need faith. If god wants to talk to me, it would be as
simple as putting a glowing note inside the next banana I buy and
peel, like that John Denver movie. Or simple glowing text in the air
above my bed, for that matter. And that's just the impersonal ways.
How strange this idea that god only talks to people in a way which
looks just like ESP and what crazy people hear, and is just as
information-free and variant from person-to-person, as something their
own subconscious made up. Don't you dream? Question: Who do you think
makes up the dialog of the people who speak to you and to each other,
in your dreams? You think god does? Or do you think it's possible
your brain has a simulation center that does this kind of thing all
the time?
> > COMMENT:
> > Says who? And since god is silent, separation from him is sort of
> > what we have now, is it not?
>
> My God is not silent and our separation is a matter or temporality vs
> supernaturalism. Not in influence, guidance or assistance. Ever present.
COMMENT:
Oh, bullshit. God gives influence, guidance, assistance, you say---
but never any information that can be independently checked. For
example, I'm sure god knows what's on my key-ring besides my car-keys,
and what's in the bottles here beside my computer. And could tell you.
And if you could then post it here (I give you permission), it would
make a huge difference in my own view of your religion and claims to
divine communication in general. But that's not going to happen. And
you're going to have to actively participate in the self-desception by
explaining to yourself and us WHY it won't happen.
What-- we're supposed to believe god does all kinds of miracles to
increase the faith of the faithless, and indeed pulls off complete and
direct communcation, as with Saul/Paul. BUT he can't tell YOU what I
made in 6th grade shop class? No, he won't. You see, by now, only god
and I know what I made in 6th grade shop class, and I'm not talking
and god's not talking. Not to you, not to anybody. You say I have no
faith? You won't get that harmless information from the god with
which you say you have such great contact. I have complete faith in
that. That's because I'm pretty damn sure you're up in the night. But
feel free to prove me wrong. I hereby give you permission to post what
I made in 6th grade shop, right here. My privacy won't be disrupted,
because I freely give it up, for this harmless fact. Pray about it.
You'll be helping to save my soul if you come up with it, I promise.
Because I'll be shocked right down to my scientist-humanist core.
> > COMMENT:
> > By god's perfect standard? Any parent who had the standard that his
> > or her children were required to obey absolutely perfectly on every
> > matter at all times and all places, or be cut off forever, would be a
> > complete ass.
>
> Sure would. Thankfully, we have Christ's Death and Resurrection, His Word
> that we are saved regardless of our sins.
COMMENT:
It was being explained that without Christ, god would be forced to let
us all go to hell. Say what? It's as though god is bound by his own
mechanical magic act, and can't just do whatever he wants, with no
fuss.
Face it-- the Christ story is just the re-working of many similar
resurrection and human sacrifice stories that preceed it in mythology,
in some cases by more than a thousand years. There's something nasty
in the human brain that looks, whenever anything bad happens, for
people to blame. In the old days before Reality TV, even for
sacrifices to kill to propitiate the gods (look at the Aztecs and the
Polynesians; look at the history of witchhunting in all cultures).
And no doubt that has fed into to the Christian myth. But it's all
bullshit. The idea that the shedding of innocent blood gives anybody
power over life and death, is voodoo. Quite literally voodoo. But also
figuratively and metaphorically. It's just a dumb primitive idea,
okay?
> > Here's fair question: if YOU were god, would you have set similar
> > impossible standards?
>
> I have no idea what being God would be like so I have no way to answer.
COMMENT:
That's your problem. It's your way of dealing with the fact that your
Moloch-like god, with his thirst for infant blood (in this case his
own son), is a primitive old-style god in most ways. But now he's just
Moloch-lite. We do the rituals with bread and wine as symbols. Just
like we don't burn anybody in actuality when they get thrown off
Survivor or Weakest Link. Getting "fired" by Trump or whoever, these
days, is not literal. But we still enjoy the spectacle of somebody
getting burned. And that is all religion is: spectacle and ritual of
suffering. Blaming others. Blaming ourselves. Making sacrifices.
Kissing asses. Being fleeced of money. Only the sacred names change.
> > COMMENT:
> > Well, then, why doesn't he just do it and be done with it? This stuff
> > about his having to send his son to Earth is certainly overly
> > complicated, overly painful, and frankly makes no sense whatsoever.
>
> Oh, you are pretentious today, aren't you? Know God's Mind, understand His
> plan? I don't. Why do you waste time worrying about something you will
> never be able to comprehend? Which part of the definition of "super"natural
> do you not understand?
COMMENT:
What part of "idiot" don't YOU understand? I could tell you the worst
piece of nonsense I can think of about god and what he did and what
that requires of you. And give you the same defence when you objected.
In fact, that's sort of what the Muslims and Mormons and Hari Krishnas
do.
Look, it's one thing to tell us that these stories are
incomprehensible. But by doing that, you give up the right to
criticise any story from any other religion. Why don't you believe in
the Hindu story of creation?
> COMMENT:
> > This is the part that makes no sense at all. Why should it matter what
> > people believe? Why did god have to send his "son" (in what sense is
> > Jesus a "sun") to save imperfect people from being cut off?
>
> See above.
COMMENT:
See above, youself. Why aren't you a Hindu or a Mormon?
> > COMMENT:
> > All this sounds like forming a social club, preparatory to
> > fleecing people with collections and tithes. I suppose Christianity
> > and the strange salvation you discuss above wouldn't be very
> > interesting if everybody didn't gather to yak about it? And trade
> > money for various promises, and as protections against various
> > threats?
>
> If you do not find the concept and promise of immortality interesting, in
> and of itself, all human trappings aside, I have no idea *what* you might
> find interesting.
COMMENT:
The promise of immortality I find interesting. The promise that it
comes by devotion to the five pillars of Islam, or Mormon Temple
rituals, or Catholic Host ingestion or whatever other ritualistic crap
somebody has invented, is what *doesn't* interest me. There are
hundreds of these purported magical ways to be immortal. None make any
more sense than the others.
> > COMMENT:
> > We have the problem of why we should
> > believe the Christian scripture and not somebody elses. Even if we
> > believe the Christian scripture, we don't see anything in the baptism
> > of Jesus that specifies "immersion" or a "local church". If anything,
> > the opposite is implied.
>
> The problem is solved by faith. Immersion or not is arguable and IMO
> inconsequential. It's symbolic and, in the times of the NT, ritualistic as
> many Jews and non Jews were ritualistic.
COMMENT:
Lots of Laughs. If faith is all it takes, people have sure wasted a
lot of money on costumes, rituals, and buildings, over the years, and
not just the Masons and the DAR. And you may even believe that. But
if people are that nutso, how do you know you too aren't one of them,
but just in a different way? Magical thinking is magical thinking,
gold trappings or not. A ritual is fine if it saves you time in a
socially awkward position. It becomes increasingly counterproductive
when you expect it to function in some magical role to give you power
over some aspect of the universe. You're better off spending your time
learning science and technology, which really DO function to give you
such power. The airplane or bridge stays up --- or not-- whether you
believe or not. That's how technology differs from ritual magic.
> I see you understand the Mind Of God better than I do. I have no way to
> explain why things are as they are and spend little time worrying about
> them.
COMMENT
Too bad for you. Because you're wasting your time with a lot of empty
promises.
> Have humans adulterated Christianity? Of course, what else would you
> expect; we adulterate damn near everything?
COMMENT:
Well, we're glad to see you've figured out the pure form, when so many
of your peers have been taken in by adulterated versions <g>. It's you
claiming you understand the mind of god better than *I* do, remember?
> > I'm gunna pass. I won't even say "Thanks for the thought" since the
> > thoughts you've given us are utterly disgusting (and so are the shows)
> > and contribute nothing to humanity. (Unless you count Jimmy Swaggart
> > and Gene Scott as contributions).
>
> Christians contribute nothing? Ridiculous and you know it. Even those two
> miscreants you mentioned have favorable pieces in their lives and I find
> them far from my liking.
COMMENT:
Christians I think, as a whole, have done more harm than good. Unlike
(say) Buddhists. But that's my take on a lot of very complex history.
In any case, only a third of the world's people are Christians, and if
you look at the other two-thirds there are plenty of examples of fine,
peace-loving cultures. So Christianity isn't necessary for that. And I
am sure you know the history of the attrocities committed in the name
of Christianity (nobody EXPECTS the Spanish Inquisition!), so I can at
least argue that Christianity doesn't immunize that well AGAINST
cultural pathology.
> > If anything, I wish these weird
> > ideas had never been thought of at all. Whoever first did, must have
> > been a sick puppy indeed. Saul of Tarsus needed some Haldol in the
> > worst way.
>
> Yes, those weird ideas will haunt you, worry and nag you, Steve, and for
> those who never receive Christ's Blessings, I'll bet it does sting to be
> constantly reminded of a fate as certain as Hell.
COMMENT:
A fate as certain as Hell? LOL. Even amoung Christians there's as
much debate about that as there is baptism by immersion. The Catholics
have even officially given up the idea of hell's outer ring, and now
aren't saying what happens to people who die without getting to hear
about Christ. Limbo's officially in limbo. There's not much certainty
here.
Yes, the wierd of idea of Hell will worry and nag YOU the rest of your
life, no doubt. But that sting is yours, not mine.
> Think for yourself, huh? Good idea. I have and I think that I'll leave
> God's business, His plans and His World to Him.
COMMENT:
Great. And keep your ideas of same to yourself, too. Unless you don't
mind having them challenged. I'm tired of people coming here on the
net to tell me what god thinks. I've vowed to stop being polite in the
standard American secular tolerant way, and instead say "bullshit!"
every time I hear somebody going on about god's plans. If you want to
know god's plans, give me your address and I'll send you the Mormon
missionaries. That's not the Spanish Inquisition, but I did say that
things aren't as spicy as they used to be, didn't I? No more burnings
at the stake. We all live now with pale ghosts of former horrors.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE MORMON MISSIONARIES!! Hah.
> Me, I'll go and try to spend my time on things that don't waste it. Trying
> to crawl into the Mind Of God is a waste.
COMMENT:
Then why do you claim you've already done it? You're the one claiming
god talks to you, and you know god's word, and you know when and how
other people have polluted god's word, and so on and so on. If trying
to get to such knowledge is a waste, how is it you come you here,
saying YOU managed to do it?
Eh?
SBH
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
It seems that your choice to judge the Holy Bible and Christians blind you to the
truth.
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
> >
> >
> > Of course it doesn't belong here, and his refusal to honor the charters of
> > these groups is abuse. Repeatedly posting off-topic is a violation of the
> > AUP for both his ISP (bellsouth) and google, where he's posting from.
> >
> > If you would like to put a stop to Chung's abuse, one polite complaint from
> > each person here would probably do the job. The complaint addresses are
> > ab...@bellsouth.net and groups...@google.com
> >
> > Include a copy of an offending post with all the headers in your complaint.
> > (The easiest way to ensure you get all the headers is to forward the post
> > rather than trying to copy and paste it.)
>
> Oh come on now. Don't you remember the playground code? Being a
> tattle-tale never solves anything but making you look like an idiot, and
> the person you tattled on getting temporarily punished.
>
> Sure the man is crazy and therefor his posts are crazy as well.
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
> But when
> people push people like this out they just end up alone in a cabin
> somewhere plotting to kill your family and wreaking havoc on society.
>
> Surely there are better solutions.
Christ is the better solution... indeed the best solution...
He is the way, the truth, and the life.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Whose rules have I broken?
>
> Your ISP's and Google's.
>
Your judgment.
>
> >Whom do you believe I am serving?
>
> Yourself, as always. You're like a spoiled child stomping his feet and
> demanding his way at the expense of everyone else. Most adults are capable
> of understanding how usenet works and how it depends on cooperative behavior
> by the participants. Apparently, you don't understand -- or don't care.
> Given that you were smart enough to obtain two graduate degrees, I conclude
> it must be the latter.
Sorry my choice to openly Christian bothers you.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Jeff wrote:
> >>
> >> This is religion, not science.
> >
> >Many are able to think about both at the same time.
>
> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science,
There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
> but
> that doesn't make porn any more appropriate here than religion.
>
If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography here in the
medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to ignore it as
I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
>
> Fact: Religion is completely off-topic in all the groups this thread is
> cross-posted to.
>
Fact: Christ's ability to heal anything including obesity, diabetes, blindness,
cardiac disease, and even death are on topic for all the groups that this thread
is cross-posted to.
Here's a link describing this ability:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
>
> >Discussion about physicians does belong in this newsgroup.
>
> According to who? Have you read the charters, Andrew?
Yes.
It is well documented that Christ has the ability to heal all human diseases.
This aspect of Christ makes Him on-topic in the medical newsgroups.
> General discussions
> about physicians would be on-topic in only in one of the five groups this
> thread is being cross-posted to.
>
This would be a specific discussion about Christ who is by all accounts the
greatest physician the world has ever known. Name another man in human history
with the documented ability to restore vision in people who have never had
vision, to cure leprosy, to resuscitate those who have been dead for several
hours and even days.
>
> >I have given evidence. Discussion of such evidence does belong in this
> >newsgroup.
>
> Not according to the charters it doesn't.
Your judgment.
Go ahead and cite where discussion of a physician who knows how to cure all
human illness including obesity, diabetes, and heart disease is considered off
topic.
Now that you have incorporated into this thread a discussion about the charters
of each of the respective groups receiving this thread, you have made this
thread on-topic everywhere it might be cross-posted.
Thanks :-)
May everyone who is Christian feel inclined to cross-post this thread with God's
blessing to all Usenet newsgroups, in Christ's name.
> Recommend you quit inventing your
> own rules, figure out where newsgroup charters are, and read what they
> actually say.
>
> Your posts are off-topic. Period.
Your judgment.
> And they constitute abuse due to your
> willful, repeated disregard for the charters and many requests to stop
> posting off-topic.
It will forever remain my choice to be openly Christian. Sorry that bothers
you.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:412ACD...@heartmdphd.com...
> > Carey Gregory wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >This is religion, not science. It does not belong in this newsgroup.
> > >
> > > Of course it doesn't belong here, and his refusal to honor the charters
> of
> > > these groups is abuse. Repeatedly posting off-topic is a violation of
> the
> > > AUP for both his ISP (bellsouth) and google, where he's posting from.
> > >
> > > If you would like to put a stop to Chung's abuse, one polite complaint
> from
> > > each person here would probably do the job. The complaint addresses are
> > > ab...@bellsouth.net and groups...@google.com
> >
> > Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
>
> Doesn't bother me at all.
I sense otherwise.
> Your preaching in a newsgroup does.
>
Again sorry my being openly Christian (in a newsgroup) bothers you.
It remains my choice not to be openly Christian in a closet.
>
> > Ever wonder about the possibility that the good folks at Bellsouth and
> > Google might also be Christians and that such complaints might be
> > falling on deaf ears especially during this time when America needs
> > God's blessings now more than ever?
>
> No, the Christian thing to do is to obey the rules
As a Christian, I obey God's laws and abide (within the frameworks of God's law)
the laws of the country where I currently reside.
> and do your preaching in
> the appropriate newsgroups.
>
It remains my choice to be openly Christian wherever I might be. Again, sorry
my choice bothers you.
>
> > > Include a copy of an offending post with all the headers in your
> complaint.
> > > (The easiest way to ensure you get all the headers is to forward the
> post
> > > rather than trying to copy and paste it.)
> >
> > That would help them discern that I did not start this thread though I
> > will freely admit that I encouraged it.
> >
> > Nonetheless, you remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
> >
> >
> > Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> If you are a servant to the hublest person in the universe, doesn't that
> make you more humble?
>
No. No person is greater than his/her master.
>
> Or full of....
>
> Jeff
>
Again sorry my being openly Christian bothers you. You remain in my prayers,
dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Your judgment. A big plank resides in your eye (simply look at your pseudonym).
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> In article <f0pli0t250gh9q2mh...@4ax.com>,
> Carey Gregory <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
> >
> > I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
>
> Neither does he. He apparently doesn't think Matthew 7:21-23 applies to
> him.
>
Apparently you believe that being openly Christian is contrary to God's
will (i.e. evil).
That would be your choice. My choice is to walk with Christ.
Christ teaches from Matthew 5:
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they
put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In
the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your
good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
>
> I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
Your language betrays what is in your heart.
> Your
> abuse of these newsgroups is what bothers me.
>
Sorry you feel abused.
>
> >Ever wonder about the possibility that the good folks at Bellsouth and
> >Google might also be Christians and that such complaints might be
> >falling on deaf ears especially during this time when America needs
> >God's blessings now more than ever?
>
> Now you imagine there's a Christian cabal that will protect you?
No. I believe that the reason I am able to continue posting on Usenet is
because God wills it.
> Sorry, but
> most Christians don't share your warped view of Christianity as a license to
> trample the rights of others as you do.
Would suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of free speech. You
have not been forced to read what I have written (or cross-posted). Again,
sorry my posts offend you..
> I assure you that even the most
> fervently Christian news admin will enforce their AUP if enough people
> notify them of your abuse.
>
Let me assure you that Christ, whom I serve, is infinitely greater than a
trillion complaining anti-christians.
>
> >That would help them discern that I did not start this thread though I
> >will freely admit that I encouraged it.
>
> Yeah, right. I've seen too many lies and too many sock puppets out of you,
> Andrew.
As if zero could be too many.
> Your word is worthless. But whether you started this thread or not
> -- and I'm confident you did -- there's no shortage of posts from you to
> form the basis for actionable complaints.
Be my guest. May God's will be done, in Christ's name.
You will remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too
will have eternal life and the incredible riches of His everlasting kingdom.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!!! Your response is almost as ridiculous as the
> original ass-nine post.
>
> I'm amused at the propensity of so many folks to blindly believe in the most
> absurd fairy tales called religion.
>
> LOL
>
> MB
Sorry the beliefs of others bother you.
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
jamie
> Eldritch wrote:
>> Daniel Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> I would LOVE to run a test where several translators were required to
>>> translate a long, difficult, ancient Greek text completely independently
>>> with as much prayer as they want to use. I would be VERY surprised if
>>> the translations were all identical which they would be if prayer really
>>> insured perfect results.
>>
>> Referring to the virgin birth?
>
>
> There is little problem with translating the Greek language, and Jesus,
> James etc., spoke modern Greek, not ancient Greek. Ancient Greek is the
> Greek language *prior* to the Roman empire.
Isaiah, however, claimed by Christians to prophecize the virgin
birth, was written in Hebrew, not Greek.
While the surviving canonized Greek translation uses the word for
girl specifically connoting a virgin [parthenos] (but also used to
refer to non-virgin unmarried women by Homer), the Hebrew Isaiah
does not use the word meaning virgin [bethulah] as in Deu. 22
and 24 discussing virgins, but the word for young woman [almah].
Other surviving early fragments of Isaiah in Greek by both Jewish and
early Christian translators use a word that does not connote a virgin
[neanis] in Isaiah 7:14.
> Don't forget that the Bible, originally the Jewish Books of Law, wasn't
> consecrated into scripture until the Church was well established, many
> years after Christ's death. The Church at that time was riddled with
> corruption and self serving men in high office. It hasn't changed much
> since those days.
The first five books of the Bible (Torah - Jewish Law) reached its
final form in Judaism some 400 years before Jesus was born. As to
the remainder of what Christians call the Old Testament, the books
of the Prophets (including Isaiah) were the equivalent of canonized
in Jewish Scripture some 200 years before the birth of Jesus, and the
Writings [Psalms, Proverbs, Lamentations, Song of Songs (Solomon), Job,
Eccliastes, Ruth, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah and the Chronicles]
by about 160 years before Jesus's birth.
(The earliest known translation of Isaiah into Greek being around
150 BCE, with at least 3 known differing versions from many surviving
fragments up through the first century after the birth of Jesus)
I expect you're aware that nothing of the New Testament of the
Christian Bible was ever a part of Jewish scripture. Because my former
neighbors, a young fundamentalist Christian pastor and his wife (who
said their denomination was "Charismatic" and held church services
and Bible study in their home) were completely shocked to hear that
Jews didn't celebrate Christmas, I thought it worth mentioning.
--
jamie (jami...@newsguy.com)
"There's a seeker born every minute."
jamie
> marengo wrote:
>> You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians
>> a bad name by breaking rules,
>
I've already referred you to your own scripture's book of Matthew,
chapter 6, but you apparently can't be bothered to read it.
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in
heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet
before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto
you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy
right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth
in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in
the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when
thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in
secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee
openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard for their much
speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth
what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Carey Gregory
>Carey Gregory wrote:
>
>> I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
>
>Your language betrays what is in your heart.
In other words, you couldn't compose a meaningful reply.
>> Your
>> abuse of these newsgroups is what bothers me.
>>
>
>Sorry you feel abused.
As the abuser, you should. But I know that's another lie. You're not
sorry in the least.
>> Now you imagine there's a Christian cabal that will protect you?
>
>No. I believe that the reason I am able to continue posting on Usenet is
>because God wills it.
You said Christian news admins would allow you to continue your abuse. Now
it's God who wills it. Make up your mind, such as it is.
>> Sorry, but
>> most Christians don't share your warped view of Christianity as a license to
>> trample the rights of others as you do.
>
>Would suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of free speech.
Would suggest you familiarize yourself with the limits of free speech. Some
basic manners and a therapist would help too.
>You
>have not been forced to read what I have written (or cross-posted).
Your off-topic posts displace on-topic posts, thereby denying others their
freedom of speech. But, as you've already shown, it matters not a whit to
you if you trample on the rights of others.
>Let me assure you that Christ, whom I serve, is infinitely greater than a
>trillion complaining anti-christians.
Ah, we finally get to the heart of the matter. Anyone who disagrees with
you is anti-Christian.
>> Yeah, right. I've seen too many lies and too many sock puppets out of you,
>> Andrew.
>
>As if zero could be too many.
It's possible you've reached the point that you don't know when you're
lying; but frankly, I don't believe you've degenerated to the point where
you don't know you're creating sock puppets.
Carey Gregory
>Oh come on now. Don't you remember the playground code? Being a
>tattle-tale never solves anything but making you look like an idiot, and
>the person you tattled on getting temporarily punished.
Playgrounds... an apt analogy. Unfortunately, as the masses found usenet,
it has become increasingly common to have to LART the children who can't
control themselves. Without that, usenet would have collapsed into complete
chaos years ago, due entirely to the Chungs of the world who don't know how
to play in an unsupervised sandbox.
>Sure the man is crazy and therefor his posts are crazy as well. But when
>people push people like this out they just end up alone in a cabin
>somewhere plotting to kill your family and wreaking havoc on society.
>
>Surely there are better solutions.
Pushed out of where? Pushed out of medical groups into the religion groups
where his posts would be completely on-topic and welcome? That's not being
pushed out, that's being taught what most of us understood by the time we
were grade school.
Carey Gregory
>Carey Gregory wrote:
>
>>
>> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science,
>
>There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
More of that disjoint, disorganized thought. Okay, let me simplify for you:
Posting pornography here is off-topic and unwelcome. Posting religion here
is equally off-topic and unwelcome. Neither is better or worse than the
other. Both are abuses of a cooperative system and both are violations of
your ISP's policies.
>If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography here in the
>medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to ignore it as
>I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
And if you were to start discussing psychological studies about religion
here, that would be equally on-topic. But that's not what you post, is it?
No, you evangelize, and that's no different than posting pornography.
>Here's a link describing this ability:
>
>http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
Your dishonesty is a thing to behold sometimes. You know perfectly well
that one URL doesn't change the nature of the hundreds of evangelical posts
you've made and continue to make.
>> >Discussion about physicians does belong in this newsgroup.
>>
>> According to who? Have you read the charters, Andrew?
>
>Yes.
Oh really. Where are they? Care to show us one or two?
>It is well documented that Christ has the ability to heal all human diseases.
>This aspect of Christ makes Him on-topic in the medical newsgroups.
What an astonishingly sophomoric argument. How *did* you earn those
degrees, anyway?
>This would be a specific discussion about Christ who is by all accounts the
>greatest physician the world has ever known. Name another man in human history
>with the documented ability to restore vision in people who have never had
>vision, to cure leprosy, to resuscitate those who have been dead for several
>hours and even days.
Dishonest and sophomoric again. This hasn't been your topic of discussion.
Preaching your personal religious beliefs with no medical content whatsoever
describes the vast majority of your posts in recent months, years.
>> Not according to the charters it doesn't.
>
>Your judgment.
Only someone incapable of reading (or someone who hadn't read the charters
as he claims) would disagree.
>Now that you have incorporated into this thread a discussion about the charters
>of each of the respective groups receiving this thread, you have made this
>thread on-topic everywhere it might be cross-posted.
Has no bearing on your hundreds of other off-topic posts.
>May everyone who is Christian feel inclined to cross-post this thread with God's
>blessing to all Usenet newsgroups, in Christ's name.
A call for global spamming. How nice. Fortunately, most Christians aren't
rude, self-absorbed, mentally disturbed assholes who would engage in
destructive behavior like that.
>It will forever remain my choice to be openly Christian. Sorry that bothers
>you.
Once again, I don't give a rat's ass about your religious choices. I do
care about your complete disregard for the rights of others.
Carey Gregory
>Carey Gregory wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Whose rules have I broken?
>>
>> Your ISP's and Google's.
>>
>
>Your judgment.
You didn't bother reading them, did you?
Carey Gregory
>I've already referred you to your own scripture's book of Matthew,
>chapter 6, but you apparently can't be bothered to read it.
It's been quoted to him before. He simply ignores scripture that conflicts
with his behavior.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Your judgment.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Carey Gregory wrote:
> >
> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Whose rules have I broken?
> >>
> >> Your ISP's and Google's.
> >>
> >Your judgment.
>
> You didn't bother reading them, did you?
I have.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Carey Gregory wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science,
> >
> >There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
>
> More of that disjoint, disorganized thought. Okay, let me simplify for you:
>
> Posting pornography here is off-topic and unwelcome. Posting religion here
> is equally off-topic and unwelcome. Neither is better or worse than the
> other. Both are abuses of a cooperative system and both are violations of
> your ISP's policies.
>
> >If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography here in the
> >medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to ignore it as
> >I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
>
> And if you were to start discussing psychological studies about religion
> here, that would be equally on-topic. But that's not what you post, is it?
No. I post responses to the posts of others in an openly Christian manner.
> No, you evangelize, and that's no different than posting pornography.
Your judgment.
>
> >Here's a link describing this ability:
> >
> >http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
>
> Your dishonesty is a thing to behold sometimes.
It remains my choice to be truthful.
> You know perfectly well
> that one URL doesn't change the nature of the hundreds of evangelical posts
> you've made and continue to make.
The purpose of the link is to glorify God.
>
> >> >Discussion about physicians does belong in this newsgroup.
> >>
> >> According to who? Have you read the charters, Andrew?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> Oh really. Where are they? Care to show us one or two?
>
You may use the links in my sig.
>
> >It is well documented that Christ has the ability to heal all human diseases.
> >This aspect of Christ makes Him on-topic in the medical newsgroups.
>
> What an astonishingly sophomoric argument. How *did* you earn those
> degrees, anyway?
>
With God's help. All praises belong to my heavenly Father, whom I love with all my
heart, soul, and mind.
>
> >This would be a specific discussion about Christ who is by all accounts the
> >greatest physician the world has ever known. Name another man in human history
> >with the documented ability to restore vision in people who have never had
> >vision, to cure leprosy, to resuscitate those who have been dead for several
> >hours and even days.
>
> Dishonest and sophomoric again. This hasn't been your topic of discussion.
This has been about Christ, whom I love with all my heart, soul, and mind.
>
> Preaching your personal religious beliefs with no medical content whatsoever
> describes the vast majority of your posts in recent months, years.
>
Would suggest you make up your mind if you want to convince anyone that you are
truthful.
>
> >> Not according to the charters it doesn't.
> >
> >Your judgment.
>
> Only someone incapable of reading (or someone who hadn't read the charters
> as he claims) would disagree.
>
Anyone with God's gift of truth discernment would disagree.
>
> >Now that you have incorporated into this thread a discussion about the charters
> >of each of the respective groups receiving this thread, you have made this
> >thread on-topic everywhere it might be cross-posted.
>
> Has no bearing on your hundreds of other off-topic posts.
>
Nonetheless, this discussion is here in this thread.
>
> >May everyone who is Christian feel inclined to cross-post this thread with God's
> >blessing to all Usenet newsgroups, in Christ's name.
>
> A call for global spamming.
It's called the Great Commission.
> How nice.
It is quite wonderful.
> Fortunately, most Christians aren't
> rude, self-absorbed, mentally disturbed assholes who would engage in
> destructive behavior like that.
>
Christ teaches from Matthew 28:
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority
in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and
make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to
obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you
always, to the very end of the age."
Comment:
In short, this means to spread the Word with the authority that is God-given.
>
> >It will forever remain my choice to be openly Christian. Sorry that bothers
> >you.
>
> Once again, I don't give a rat's ass about your religious choices. I do
> care about your complete disregard for the rights of others.
It remains my choice to acknowledge that you have free will.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> > marengo wrote:
> >> You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real Christians
> >> a bad name by breaking rules,
> >
> > Whose rules have I broken?
>
> I've already referred you to your own scripture's book of Matthew,
> chapter 6, but you apparently can't be bothered to read it.
>
I have read it many times:
Christ teaches from Matthew 6:
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be
seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in
heaven.
Comment:
My motivation for helping others here on Usenet has always been to glorify God
whom I love with all my heart, soul and mind. This is not about me but is
about Him. This I do in fulfillment of what He has taught me in the above.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets,
as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be
honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward
in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand
know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in
secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward
you.
Comment:
It remains my choice to give to bring glory to God whom I serve with all my
heart, soul, and mind. This is in fulfillment of what Christ has taught me in
the above.
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to
pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen
by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to
your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done
in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on
babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their
many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you
need before you ask him.
Comment:
Most know me to be of very few words. Though you may know that I am praying
for you, you will not hear me praying in public. When I pray, I do it
privately. This is in fulfillment of what Christ has taught me in the above.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Satan
> Sorry the beliefs of others bother you.
I'm happy my beliefs bother YOU.
> You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
I hear your prayers. They need work. You can do better.
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Why would God want a moron like you as a servant? You are not worthy. Come
into the fire. I will set you free.
Love,
Satan
Life is Hell. Welcome to my world.
GaryG
news:412BDCCB...@heartmdphd.com...
> Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Carey Gregory wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about
science,
> > >
> > >There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
> >
> > More of that disjoint, disorganized thought. Okay, let me simplify for
you:
> >
> > Posting pornography here is off-topic and unwelcome. Posting religion
here
> > is equally off-topic and unwelcome. Neither is better or worse than the
> > other. Both are abuses of a cooperative system and both are violations
of
> > your ISP's policies.
> >
> > >If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography
here in the
> > >medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to
ignore it as
> > >I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
> >
> > And if you were to start discussing psychological studies about religion
> > here, that would be equally on-topic. But that's not what you post, is
it?
>
> No. I post responses to the posts of others in an openly Christian
manner.
From my perspective, you are a troll. A sanctimounious and "pious" troll,
but a troll nonetheless.
How would you feel if someone posted about their personal belief in Satan,
or personal support of pedophelia, over and over again in these newsgroups?
Just because you believe in your god, doesn't mean the rest of us want to be
proselytized. There are other newsgroups that are more appropriate for the
discussion of religion.
GG
listener
news:10inq8k...@corp.supernews.com:
> From my perspective, you are a troll. A sanctimounious and "pious"
> troll, but a troll nonetheless.
>
> How would you feel if someone posted about their personal belief in
> Satan, or personal support of pedophelia, over and over again in these
> newsgroups?
>
> Just because you believe in your god, doesn't mean the rest of us want
> to be proselytized. There are other newsgroups that are more
> appropriate for the discussion of religion.
>
> GG
Attempting to reason in any way with Dr. Chung on this matter is a colossal
waste of time. He simply will never be swayed from his irrational behavior
regarding the overbearing imposition of his religous beliefs in this
newsgroup. He will continue in his serial proslytizing and no amount of
pleading, persuasion, coercion or outright bullying will have any effect on
him.
Dr. Chung, I'm sorry my not being a Christian offends you.
May the universe have mercy on your deluded being.
L.
MU
>>Carey Gregory wrote:
>>> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science,
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>>There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:05:10 -0400, Carey Gregory wrote:
> More of that disjoint, disorganized thought.
Speaking of de joint and de disorganized thought, do you post under the
influence of marijuana often or just this evening?
MU
> It is well documented that Christ has the ability to heal all human diseases.
> This aspect of Christ makes Him on-topic in the medical newsgroups.
Sure does. If there are other "lords" who can claim the same, let them also
post their Good News to Usenet.
marengo
| You remain in my prayers
Please do continue to pray for us. We need the prayer, and you obviously
need the practise.
--
Peter
270/215/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html
marengo
| On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:20:08 -0400, marengo wrote:
|
|| God doesn't bless spam you idiot.
|
| You know how God judges, do you? Then tell me, how did He judge
| Hitler or Eva Braun?
|
|| You and you phony self-righteous ilk, give Christ and us real
|| patronizing and obnoxious thereby turning many people off to the
|| otherwise beautiful Word of God.
|
| You are a Christian? Congratulations. Why are you a "real" one and I
| am not? You know God's Mind so explain this to me.
|
|| Every time you post these off-topic corssposts you break His heart
|| and drive the nails in His hands again.
|
| Really? And *your* evidence is.......?
|
|| I'll pray for you, that you will see the evil of your ways and stop
|| serving the other master.
|
| Thank you.
|
| Btw, who is this "other" master who controls me? Best let both Jesus
| and I know.
Are you schizophrenic Mu? Or are you and Chung the same person?
You've begun to answer posts directed to him as if you were the same person.
Bob (this one)
Could you be more profoundly stupid?
Rhetorical...
Bob
Bob (this one)
This from the blatant phony who cried alligator tears defending his
honesty and integrity within the past few days. Wouldn't lie because
Chung (as if...) would know and so would Jesus. Obviously has no idea
what a lie is despite constant practice.
Fraudulent sap.
Bob
MU
> Given that you were smart enough to obtain two graduate degrees, I conclude
> it must be the latter.
I don't have two graduate degrees, Gregory. Why did you say so?
J. David Anderson
> "J. David Anderson" wrote:
>
>
>>That is what I said. The problem is not of translation, but of
>>discerning original meaning, the intent of the author.
>>
>>As far as I am concerned, the Church was stillborn, it died at birth,
>>and the extent of the decay is becoming more apparent with every news
>>story regarding corruption, child abuse, and disregard of Christian
>>attitude. For centuries the corruption existed but the Church had the
>>power to protect itself from accusers. Nowadays when even Presidents
>>can't hide their misdoings from the public eye and retributory justice,
>>organisations as archaic and venal as the Church have become just as
>>vulnerable to exposure.
>>
>>Jesus didn't leave a Church, that was man made, and being man made, was
>>flawed from the start. Whether you believe Jesus was the son of God or
>>not, he was a genuine historical figure who set examples worth
>>following. Leave the Church and the Bible out of it and you might have
>>something worthwhile.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>David
>
>
> It seems that your choice to judge the Holy Bible and Christians blind you to the
> truth.
What truth would that be Andrew?
The truth that emanates from a Church that has a history of violence and
depravity, a Church that commonly *sold* forgiveness for sins before
they were committed (indulgences) a Church that is currently riddled
with paedophiles, a Church that greedily holds onto one of the world's
greatest fortunes in art & property while its congregation starves
around it? Is that the Church that you believe has a monopoly on truth?
>
> You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
I wouldn't waste your time Andrew, I have no wish to spend eternity in a
place where people like yourself congregate. I will spend whatever time
I am allotted with the real Christians, the ones who don't spend their
lives in sanctimonious proselytising conflict with people who are
already Christian in attitude and lifestyle in an attempt browbeat them
into their own particular brand of sycophantic, "look at me, aren't I
Christlike" Christianity.
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> Andrew
You are *NOT* a servant to Christ, you do him a constant disservice. You
annoy and anger people in his name and turn them away from him. Stop
pretending otherwise. If you actually do come in contact with someone
who is truly ambivalent in their attitude toward Christians, you quite
swiftly turn them away while claiming to be serving his cause.
You have yet to learn that a Christian is never defined by what he or
she says or claims, they are defined by what they do. Christ did not
want people to follow him, he wanted people to follow his teaching. You
do not do that.
You appear to be a fraud, working to a personal agenda that is not
Christian in nature.
David
MU
> Ha, ha, ha! You're too much. Thanks for the laugh, Mu!
And I thank you for the discourse. However, it is time for Mu to say
goodbye.
MU
> No evidence required, only faith.
You finally got it.
Congrats.
Bob (this one)
Sarcasm and smarmy editing "R" Us...
Poor morally vacuous MU_lcter.
Bob
Bob (this one)
Whew. Finally...
Ok, everybody, you can take down the air fresheners.
Bob
Bob (this one)
Zowie. It really must all be about you...
Sap.
Bob
MU
> some 400 years before Jesus was born
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N2DB52129
Gosh, jamie, how well you paraphrase your Google searches.
MU
> Why would God want a moron like you as a servant? You are not worthy.
I agree. I am not.
jamie
Just trolling for fresh accusations of you being the same person as
Chung, or are you now suffering from delusions of being Mr. Heartmdphd?
Sleepyman
<beavis....@ntloxoworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:10ikg0...@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Jeff" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:<cgcl1f$o...@library2.airnews.net>...
>>>> >
>>>> >>What does this have to do with science, medicine or cardiology?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Jeff
>>>> >
>>>> > Jesus Christ is the greatest physician the world has ever known:
>>>>
>>>> <LOL> One of my employees told me that Mohammed was the greatest
>>>> scientist who ever lived.
>>>>
>>>> What with the Olympics in full swing, I expect Dr. OCD Chung to say
>>>> that Jesus was the best tennis player. The best archer. The best pole
>>>> vaulter...
>>>
>>>He was a fucking good nail catcher by all accounts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
REP
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> REP wrote:
>
> > In article <f0pli0t250gh9q2mh...@4ax.com>,
> > Carey Gregory <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
> > >
> > > I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
> >
> > Neither does he. He apparently doesn't think Matthew 7:21-23 applies to
> > him.
> >
>
> Apparently you believe that being openly Christian is contrary to God's
> will (i.e. evil).
Odd that you read it that way. Well, no, it isn't.
> You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
And I am praying that you may be forgiven of your blasphemy.
--
"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather
jamie
Sorry, MUoose, didn't need to google that up. But you might have
glanced at the google results you madeashorterlink of before trying to
dance with both feet in your mouth. We can add scriptural history to
medical studies and liability law as subjects on which you haven't the
"credibility" to discuss.
From what I could see glancing at the first page of sites, your link
just brings up a batch of believe-in-Jesus-becuz sites, saying that
Jesus' birth was prophecized 400 years before he was born and then
discussing Christian interpretation of various prophecies. But there
aren't messianic prophecies in the Torah/Pentateuch/Law which was
finalized about 400 BCE.
There is no mention on any of the first page of sites on your Google
link referring to when the other sections of Jewish scripture were
codified as scripture, so what you claim I was paraphrasing doesn't
seem to be there.
One link on the first page of your google search does mention the
Greek Septuagint being first translated around 250 BCE, but neglects
to mention the fact that the early Septuagint was only the Torah (Law)
or first 5 books of the Bible, which doesn't contain Isaiah or any
of the other prophetic books. Isaiah and other books weren't added
to the Septuagint until roughly a century later.
Now I'm sure you could manage to google up corroborating links for
these facts if you focus on history of Hebrew scripture for a moment
instead of searching phrases you found on Christian fundamentalist
hand-out pamphlets.
SomeGuy
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > Doesn't bother me at all.
>
> I sense otherwise.
I sense bullshit.
> It remains my choice not to be openly Christian in a closet.
You mean that when you're in a closet you're not openly Christian? How often
do you go into this closet? What do you do in this closet? Do you go into
this closet with other people?
> > If you are a servant to the hublest person in the universe, doesn't that
> > make you more humble?
>
> No. No person is greater than his/her master.
So, if you're not more humble than God, it's safe to assume that you are
more arrogant than God. Yes?
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> In article <412BBA16...@heartmdphd.com>,
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> > REP wrote:
> >
> > > In article <f0pli0t250gh9q2mh...@4ax.com>,
> > > Carey Gregory <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so much.
> > > >
> > > > I don't give a rat's ass about your (professed) religion, Andrew.
> > >
> > > Neither does he. He apparently doesn't think Matthew 7:21-23 applies to
> > > him.
> > >
> >
> > Apparently you believe that being openly Christian is contrary to God's
> > will (i.e. evil).
>
> Odd that you read it that way. Well, no, it isn't.
Nonetheless, that is what I sense in you.
>
> > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
>
> And I am praying that you may be forgiven of your blasphemy.
Observation is not blasphemy.
Truth is simple.
May you someday learn that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Truth defeats Satan every time :-)
Truth is powerful...
...and Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.
May all who have eyes see.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > "J. David Anderson" wrote:
> >
> >
>
> >>That is what I said. The problem is not of translation, but of
> >>discerning original meaning, the intent of the author.
> >>
> >>As far as I am concerned, the Church was stillborn, it died at birth,
> >>and the extent of the decay is becoming more apparent with every news
> >>story regarding corruption, child abuse, and disregard of Christian
> >>attitude. For centuries the corruption existed but the Church had the
> >>power to protect itself from accusers. Nowadays when even Presidents
> >>can't hide their misdoings from the public eye and retributory justice,
> >>organisations as archaic and venal as the Church have become just as
> >>vulnerable to exposure.
> >>
> >>Jesus didn't leave a Church, that was man made, and being man made, was
> >>flawed from the start. Whether you believe Jesus was the son of God or
> >>not, he was a genuine historical figure who set examples worth
> >>following. Leave the Church and the Bible out of it and you might have
> >>something worthwhile.
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>
> >>David
> >
> >
> > It seems that your choice to judge the Holy Bible and Christians blind you to the
> > truth.
>
> What truth would that be Andrew?
That Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.
> The truth that emanates from a Church that has a history of violence and
> depravity, a Church that commonly *sold* forgiveness for sins before
> they were committed (indulgences) a Church that is currently riddled
> with paedophiles, a Church that greedily holds onto one of the world's
> greatest fortunes in art & property while its congregation starves
> around it? Is that the Church that you believe has a monopoly on truth?
See above.
> >
> > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
>
> I wouldn't waste your time Andrew, I have no wish to spend eternity in a
> place where people like yourself congregate.
Your choice.
> I will spend whatever time
> I am allotted with the real Christians, the ones who don't spend their
> lives in sanctimonious proselytising conflict with people who are
> already Christian in attitude and lifestyle in an attempt browbeat them
> into their own particular brand of sycophantic, "look at me, aren't I
> Christlike" Christianity.
Your choice.
It remains my choice to walk with Christ, whom I love with all my heart,
soul, and mind.
> > Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
> >
> > Andrew
>
> You are *NOT* a servant to Christ,
Your judgment.
> you do him a constant disservice. You
> annoy and anger people in his name and turn them away from him.
Would suggest you read Matthew 5.
> Stop
> pretending otherwise.
I am not.
> If you actually do come in contact with someone
> who is truly ambivalent in their attitude toward Christians, you quite
> swiftly turn them away while claiming to be serving his cause.
That has not been my experience.
> You have yet to learn that a Christian is never defined by what he or
> she says or claims, they are defined by what they do.
In truth, they are defined not by what they do but by what is in their
hearts.
> Christ did not
> want people to follow him, he wanted people to follow his teaching.
I sense that you do not know what He wants.
> You
> do not do that.
It remains my choice to walk with Christ, whom I love with all my heart,
soul, and mind.
> You appear to be a fraud,
Your judgment.
> working to a personal agenda that is not
> Christian in nature.
This is not about me. This is about Him.
> David
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
you too will have eternal life and the incredible peace that is His
everlasting kingdom.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> | You remain in my prayers
>
> Please do continue to pray for us.
I will.
> We need the prayer,
Glad you see the need.
> and you obviously
> need the practise.
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
you too will have eternal life and the unimaginable peace of His
everlasting kingdom.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in
> news:10inq8k...@corp.supernews.com:
> >
> > From my perspective, you are a troll. A sanctimounious and "pious"
> > troll, but a troll nonetheless.
> >
> > How would you feel if someone posted about their personal belief in
> > Satan, or personal support of pedophelia, over and over again in these
> > newsgroups?
> >
> > Just because you believe in your god, doesn't mean the rest of us want
> > to be proselytized. There are other newsgroups that are more
> > appropriate for the discussion of religion.
> >
> > GG
>
> Attempting to reason in any way with Dr. Chung on this matter is a colossal
> waste of time.
Sorry you are still angry about your past difficulties.
> He simply will never be swayed from his irrational behavior
> regarding the overbearing imposition of his religous beliefs in this
> newsgroup. He will continue in his serial proslytizing and no amount of
> pleading, persuasion, coercion or outright bullying will have any effect on
> him.
With His blessing, God empowers those who worship Him.
> Dr. Chung, I'm sorry my not being a Christian offends you.
It doesn't.
> May the universe have mercy on your deluded being.
It remains my choice to worship the Maker rather than His creations.
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:412BBA25...@heartmdphd.com...
>
> > Sorry the beliefs of others bother you.
>
> I'm happy my beliefs bother YOU.
You don't bother me. Sorry to make you unhappy.
> > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
>
> I hear your prayers. They need work. You can do better.
With God's help I am.
> > Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> Why would God want a moron like you as a servant?
Sorry my serving Him bothers you.
Christ tells me that you have always had a problem with coveting.
> You are not worthy.
You will have to take that up with God who chose me.
> Come
> into the fire.
It remains my choice to walk with Christ, whom I love with all my heart,
soul, and mind.
> I will set you free.
I am already free.
> Love,
> Satan
>
> Life is Hell. Welcome to my world.
Sorry you've been feeling bad since my Lord has beaten you handily at
every turn.
May God's will be done concerning you, in Christ's name.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > Carey Gregory wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Carey Gregory wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about
> science,
> > > >
> > >
> you:
> > >
> > > Posting pornography here is off-topic and unwelcome. Posting religion
> here
> > > is equally off-topic and unwelcome. Neither is better or worse than the
> > > other. Both are abuses of a cooperative system and both are violations
> of
> > > your ISP's policies.
> > >
> > > >If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography
> here in the
> > > >medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to
> ignore it as
> > > >I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
> > >
> > > And if you were to start discussing psychological studies about religion
> > > here, that would be equally on-topic. But that's not what you post, is
> it?
> >
> > No. I post responses to the posts of others in an openly Christian
> manner.
>
> From my perspective, you are a troll. A sanctimounious and "pious" troll,
> but a troll nonetheless.
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
> How would you feel if someone posted about their personal belief in Satan,
Their choice. Someone is pretending to be Satan as I write. Do I seem
bothered by it?
> or personal support of pedophelia, over and over again in these newsgroups?
<shrug>
Christ has taught me how to observe without judging.
Would suggest you try it sometime.
> Just because you believe in your god, doesn't mean the rest of us want to be
> proselytized.
Your choice. You have free will from God whom I love with all my heart,
soul, and mind.
> There are other newsgroups that are more appropriate for the
> discussion of religion.
It remains my choice to be openly Christian. Sorry this bothers you.
> GG
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
SomeGuy
> Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> > Many people are able to think about porn while thinking about science,
>
> There are psychological studies regarding pornographic materials.
As there are psychological studies regarding people who imagine they have
supernatural powers.
> If someone starts discussing psychological studies about pornography here
in the
> medical newsgroups, that would be their choice. I would choose to ignore
it as
> I ignore the folks lurking in the dark corners of SMC.
Dark corners? In a newsgroup?
> Fact: Christ's ability to heal anything including obesity, diabetes,
blindness,
> cardiac disease, and even death are on topic for all the groups that this
thread
> is cross-posted to.
Fact: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
Conjecture: inference from defective or presumptive evidence
If a man called upon Christ to heal his blindness, and he did not see again,
Andrew would simply claim that he was not sincere and did not take Christ
into his life. This way, Andrew can never be proven wrong.
> This would be a specific discussion about Christ who is by all accounts
the
> greatest physician the world has ever known. Name another man in human
history
> with the documented ability to restore vision in people who have never had
> vision, to cure leprosy, to resuscitate those who have been dead for
several
> hours and even days.
Mmm, no, not by all accounts. Wakantanka was a great healer long before the
arrival of white men in America. There's Morgan le Fay , but she was kind of
chaotic. Mazu (also know as Matsu, Tianhou, Ma-Tsu, A-ma and a few others)
not only healed but taught others to heal. She also had the power to quell
storms. Wong Fei Hung was another great healer (who also happened to kick
ass). Shah Faridoon could not only heal, but dispell evil. How 'bout
Asclepius? Surely you, of all people, Andrew, him? He could raise the dead.
Chiron was another healer and went so far as to sacrifice his life so
another could live. There was Finn MacCool (or Finn MacCumhaill), a great
healer, but not enough is known about him to comment further. There's
another guy named Theuth (or Thoth, Djeheuty, Tehuti, and a few others) who
could cure blindeness, among other things, and help folks get into the
afterlife. That should be enought to get you started.
> Now that you have incorporated into this thread a discussion about the
charters
> of each of the respective groups receiving this thread, you have made this
> thread on-topic everywhere it might be cross-posted.
Lame
> May everyone who is Christian feel inclined to cross-post this thread with
God's
> blessing to all Usenet newsgroups, in Christ's name.
You speak for Christ now?
Satan
> Satan wrote:
> >
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> > news:412BBA25...@heartmdphd.com...
> >
> > > Sorry the beliefs of others bother you.
> >
> > I'm happy my beliefs bother YOU.
>
> You don't bother me. Sorry to make you unhappy.
I am quite happy.
> > > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
> >
> > I hear your prayers. They need work. You can do better.
>
> With God's help I am.
You need serious psycholigcal counseling.
> > > Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
> >
> > Why would God want a moron like you as a servant?
>
> Sorry my serving Him bothers you.
It doesn't bother me. God told me it bothers him.
> Christ tells me that you have always had a problem with coveting.
He has told me that you have always had a problem with reality.
> > You are not worthy.
>
> You will have to take that up with God who chose me.
Christ told me you were not chosen. You chose him and he doesn't like it.
> > Come into the fire.
>
> It remains my choice to walk with Christ, whom I love with all my heart,
> soul, and mind.
So you don't care what Christ thinks?
> > I will set you free.
>
> I am already free.
You are a hippocrit. Your sinning tells me so. Sing the words below to the
tune Jesus Loves me.
Satan loves me this I know.
For my sinning tells me so.
I pretend to honor Christ.
But I will not sacrifice.
I'm hororrific.
I'm blidgeristic.
I'm hippocritic.
My sinning tells me so.
> > Love,
> > Satan
> >
> > Life is Hell. Welcome to my world.
>
> Sorry you've been feeling bad since my Lord has beaten you handily at
> every turn.
Have you watched the news? Churches have seen a 50% drop in membership.
Why do you suppose that is happening? Doesn't your bible say that death
will set you free?
> May God's will be done concerning you, in Christ's name.
I have exactly what I want for eternity.
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
He doesn't want you and neither do I.