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RichD
Apr 30, 2013, 12:26:37 AM4/30/13
to
Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
It's about a hundred million"
Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
--
Rich
was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
It's about a hundred million"
Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
--
Rich
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 3:27:29 AM4/30/13
to
In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
Perhaps the bus driver had a UK-based education.
quasi
karl
Apr 30, 2013, 2:43:31 AM4/30/13
to
I thought, in Europe a billion is 10^(12), i.e. 1000*1000 millions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
Karl
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Apr 30, 2013, 2:42:33 AM4/30/13
to
In article <easun81b8nj8hrpfp...@4ax.com>, quasi
i.e. a US trillion. 1000 million, the equivalent of the US billion, was
the milliard. However, US-style usage is becoming more prevalent in the
UK, just as many people today say "radio" and no longer "wireless".
In other languages, terms similar to the old UK usage are the only ones
in use, e.g. German has Milliarde for 1000 million and Billion for one
million million.
> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
Right.
<qu...@null.set> writes:
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
No, it is not, and it never was. The UK billion was a million million,
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
i.e. a US trillion. 1000 million, the equivalent of the US billion, was
the milliard. However, US-style usage is becoming more prevalent in the
UK, just as many people today say "radio" and no longer "wireless".
In other languages, terms similar to the old UK usage are the only ones
in use, e.g. German has Milliarde for 1000 million and Billion for one
million million.
> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 3:44:06 AM4/30/13
to
careful reading yields:
In the US,
a billion = 10^9
a trillion = 10^12
In the UK (and many other countries),
a billion = 10^12 (1 million squared)
a trillion = 10^18 (1 million cubed)
quasi
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Apr 30, 2013, 2:43:24 AM4/30/13
to
In article <517f6797$0$9519$9b4e...@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>, karl
<oud...@nononet.com> writes:
> I thought, in Europe a billion is 10^(12), i.e. 1000*1000 millions.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
Right, though in the UK the US usage is becoming more common.
> I thought, in Europe a billion is 10^(12), i.e. 1000*1000 millions.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Apr 30, 2013, 2:44:40 AM4/30/13
to
In article <b5tun8t1obm7tdgot...@4ax.com>, quasi
> In the US,
>
> a billion = 10^9
> a trillion = 10^12
>
> In the UK (and many other countries),
>
> a billion = 10^12 (1 million squared)
> a trillion = 10^18 (1 million cubed)
Right. 10^15 being a billiard.
<qu...@null.set> writes:
> Forget what I said above -- I misread a web link.
In general, if you have to look it up yourself, don't post.
> Forget what I said above -- I misread a web link.
> In the US,
>
> a billion = 10^9
> a trillion = 10^12
>
> In the UK (and many other countries),
>
> a billion = 10^12 (1 million squared)
> a trillion = 10^18 (1 million cubed)
Martin Brown
Apr 30, 2013, 2:51:37 AM4/30/13
to
On 30/04/2013 08:27, quasi wrote:
> RichD wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>> It's about a hundred million"
>>
>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid Americans.
> RichD wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>> It's about a hundred million"
>>
>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
Milliard was the old English word for modern billion.
A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it was fully
redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974 parliamentary answer
to match the US (aka international) definition. US dictionaries do not
seem to have kept pace with this "recent" development.
In fact both forms of billion existed in the UK up until the mid 60's
but from 1951 onwards the US definition was becoming prevalent in the
small circle of people that actually needed to use such large numbers.
http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN04440.pdf
>
> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
>
> Perhaps the bus driver had a UK-based education.
>
> quasi
>
--
> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
>
> Perhaps the bus driver had a UK-based education.
>
> quasi
>
Regards,
Martin Brown
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 4:00:02 AM4/30/13
to
Phillip Helbig wrote:
>The UK billion was a million million, i.e. a US trillion.
>1000 million, the equivalent of the US billion, was the
>milliard. However, US-style usage is becoming more prevalent
>in the UK, just as many people today say "radio" and no
>longer "wireless".
>
>In other languages, terms similar to the old UK usage are the
>only ones in use, e.g. German has Milliarde for 1000 million
>and Billion for one million million.
>
>> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
>
>Right.
So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
perhaps I could drive a bus.
quasi
>quasi wrote:
>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>No, it is not, and it never was.
A careless mistake on my part.
>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>No, it is not, and it never was.
>The UK billion was a million million, i.e. a US trillion.
>1000 million, the equivalent of the US billion, was the
>milliard. However, US-style usage is becoming more prevalent
>in the UK, just as many people today say "radio" and no
>longer "wireless".
>
>In other languages, terms similar to the old UK usage are the
>only ones in use, e.g. German has Milliarde for 1000 million
>and Billion for one million million.
>
>> In the US, a billion equals 1000 million.
>
>Right.
perhaps I could drive a bus.
quasi
Jasen Betts
Apr 30, 2013, 2:49:45 AM4/30/13
to
On 2013-04-30, quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
> RichD wrote:
>
>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>It's about a hundred million"
>>
>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
never!
> RichD wrote:
>
>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>It's about a hundred million"
>>
>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
since 1974 it's been 10^9 (and before that 10^12)
--
⚂⚃ 100% natural
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 4:11:16 AM4/30/13
to
Phillip Helbig wrote:
>quasi wrote:
>>
>quasi wrote:
>>
>> Forget what I said above -- I misread a web link.
>
>In general, if you have to look it up yourself, don't post.
Nonsense.
>
>In general, if you have to look it up yourself, don't post.
Had I known it in advance, I still might have remembered it
incorrectly.
Besides, I caught and corrected my own error almost right away.
>> In the US,
>>
>> a billion = 10^9
>> a trillion = 10^12
>>
>> In the UK (and many other countries),
>>
>> a billion = 10^12 (1 million squared)
>> a trillion = 10^18 (1 million cubed)
>
>Right.
quasi
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 4:17:31 AM4/30/13
to
Jasen Betts wrote:
>since 1974 it's been 10^9 (and before that 10^12)
What happened in 1974?
quasi
>quasi wrote:
>> RichD wrote:
>>>
>>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>>It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>never!
I've acknowledged my error several times already.
>> RichD wrote:
>>>
>>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>>It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>never!
>since 1974 it's been 10^9 (and before that 10^12)
quasi
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 4:32:23 AM4/30/13
to
Martin Brown wrote:
>quasi wrote:
>> RichD wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid
>Americans.
Actually, it seems that we Americans (stupid or not) have
>quasi wrote:
>> RichD wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid
>Americans.
managed to get the UK to change _their_ usage (at least
officially) to match ours.
>Milliard was the old English word for modern billion.
>
>A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it
>was fully redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974
>parliamentary answer to match the US (aka international)
>definition. US dictionaries do not seem to have kept pace
>with this "recent" development.
Laws don't change language usage -- people do.
>In fact both forms of billion existed in the UK up until the
>mid 60's but from 1951 onwards the US definition was becoming
>prevalent in the small circle of people that actually needed
>to use such large numbers.
agencies needed greater consistency with their US counterparts.
>http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN04440.pdf
quasi
quasi
Apr 30, 2013, 4:34:06 AM4/30/13
to
quasi
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Apr 30, 2013, 4:02:36 AM4/30/13
to
In article <1SJft.11576$UI3....@newsfe22.iad>, Martin Brown
equivalent of the old milliard with the equivalent of a billion being a
thousand milliards etc.
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
> A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it was fully
> redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974 parliamentary answer
> to match the US (aka international) definition. US dictionaries do not
> seem to have kept pace with this "recent" development.
US yes, international no. Many languages, such as German, have the
> A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it was fully
> redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974 parliamentary answer
> to match the US (aka international) definition. US dictionaries do not
> seem to have kept pace with this "recent" development.
equivalent of the old milliard with the equivalent of a billion being a
thousand milliards etc.
John Larkin
Apr 30, 2013, 9:41:11 AM4/30/13
to
and politicians are obviously innumerate, which they generally are.
Could be the driver was being ironic with that busload of college brats.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Spehro Pefhany
Apr 30, 2013, 11:02:18 AM4/30/13
to
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:41:11 -0700, John Larkin
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:26:37 -0700 (PDT), RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>It's about a hundred million"
>>
>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
>Bus drivers don't need to know this stuff. It's more disturbing when journalists
>and politicians are obviously innumerate, which they generally are.
>
>Could be the driver was being ironic with that busload of college brats.
If you want to feel sad, read some of the comments on this:
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:26:37 -0700 (PDT), RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>It's about a hundred million"
>>
>>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
>Bus drivers don't need to know this stuff. It's more disturbing when journalists
>and politicians are obviously innumerate, which they generally are.
>
>Could be the driver was being ironic with that busload of college brats.
http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
I hope most of them are 'plants' by some amoral marketing firm. I'd
hate to think that many people are so innumerate.
All they need to do is to solve a couple of "technical problems".
Kettles and toasters from something the size of a hockey puck. 8-(
John Larkin
Apr 30, 2013, 11:22:30 AM4/30/13
to
ideas like this, get crowdsource funding, repeat as needed.
Maybe there was a reason that private investment and going-public fund raising
had some rules.
Check out these people!
http://www.yankodesign.com/about/
Thanks for the link; this is great stuff.
George Herold
Apr 30, 2013, 1:32:29 PM4/30/13
to
On Apr 30, 11:02 am, Spehro Pefhany
cool very well) They need someone who has done some thermodynamics.
George H.
<speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:41:11 -0700, John Larkin
>
> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:41:11 -0700, John Larkin
>
> >On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:26:37 -0700 (PDT), RichD <r_delaney2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
> >>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
> >>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
> >>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
> >>It's about a hundred million"
>
> >>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> >Bus drivers don't need to know this stuff. It's more disturbing when journalists
> >and politicians are obviously innumerate, which they generally are.
>
> >Could be the driver was being ironic with that busload of college brats.
>
> If you want to feel sad, read some of the comments on this:
>
> http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
>
> I hope most of them are 'plants' by some amoral marketing firm. I'd
> hate to think that many people are so innumerate.
>
> All they need to do is to solve a couple of "technical problems".
> Kettles and toasters from something the size of a hockey puck. 8-(
Fun... they have stainless steel ice cubes too. ('cause ice doesn't
>
> >>Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
> >>was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
> >>you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
> >>monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
> >>It's about a hundred million"
>
> >>Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>
> >Bus drivers don't need to know this stuff. It's more disturbing when journalists
> >and politicians are obviously innumerate, which they generally are.
>
> >Could be the driver was being ironic with that busload of college brats.
>
> If you want to feel sad, read some of the comments on this:
>
> http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
>
> I hope most of them are 'plants' by some amoral marketing firm. I'd
> hate to think that many people are so innumerate.
>
> All they need to do is to solve a couple of "technical problems".
> Kettles and toasters from something the size of a hockey puck. 8-(
cool very well) They need someone who has done some thermodynamics.
George H.
Edward A. Falk
Apr 30, 2013, 1:42:23 PM4/30/13
to
In article <ontun896g9espv9a3...@4ax.com>,
wheel is totally on the wrong side and the other drivers tend
to come right at you, honking their horns and forcing you up
onto the sidewalk.
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
>
>So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
>perhaps I could drive a bus.
Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
>
>So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
>perhaps I could drive a bus.
wheel is totally on the wrong side and the other drivers tend
to come right at you, honking their horns and forcing you up
onto the sidewalk.
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Jeff Liebermann
Apr 30, 2013, 1:57:50 PM4/30/13
to
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:02:18 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>If you want to feel sad, read some of the comments on this:
>http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
Welcome to the weird world of industrial design. Yanko is the leading
>http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
web site for displaying concept devices. A concept device is
something that looks good, might solve a few problems, is highly
artistic, shows creativity, but probably can't be built or made to
work. It's an extreme case of form not following function. However,
it does have value. I like to view at the concept bicycles and
transportation machines, which invariably cannot be ridden by normal
humans, but which often have some ideas worth stealing. Same with
strange looking cell phones, appliances, furniture, and gadgets.
Whenever I suffer from lack of inspiration (designers block), I go to
the industrial design sites for ideas.
More:
<http://www.monkeedesign.com>
<http://www.industrialdesignserved.com>
<http://core77.com>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Tom Del Rosso
Apr 30, 2013, 2:30:28 PM4/30/13
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
--
Reply in group, but if emailing remove the last word.
Tom Del Rosso
Apr 30, 2013, 2:31:39 PM4/30/13
to
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>
> If you want to feel sad, read some of the comments on this:
>
> http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/04/26/plug-it-on-the-window/
>
> I hope most of them are 'plants' by some amoral marketing firm. I'd
> hate to think that many people are so innumerate.
>
> All they need to do is to solve a couple of "technical problems".
> Kettles and toasters from something the size of a hockey puck. 8-(
"Look up Ohm's law. Anything that works off 240v will need more than the
minuscule amps that this will be able to produce. On the other hand, convert
this to a USB plug (5v) and you have something useful."
Spehro Pefhany
Apr 30, 2013, 3:29:13 PM4/30/13
to
people , found on paid twitter accounts. LAME !"
This would be great for camping � blowing up your air mattress,
lights, radio, toaster etc good marketing potential!
I�ll buy one as soon as it hits the market!!! Awesome idea!!!
what�s the phrase? �SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!�
Geeez, these would be a GODSEND to us apartment dwellers who want to
go solar, but can�t install panels due to idiotic landlords.
LOVE the idea of this product!! would like to be notified of
production and availability!!
When will this be available to buy and where?
When will this be in stores?
Where can I buy this?
Where can I place the order? The design looks really nice and if it
works well I would say another hole in the market is about to be
filled !
Wonderful concept. Please include me in your first e-mailshot as soon
as it�s commercially available. (I hope the �powers that be� don�t
sabotage this excellent invention of yours.)
I thought fantastic, to use clean energy and benefit many people and
especially our planet! luck and creative ideas that may well
I can�t wait�..please let me know when I can buy a bunch of these�how
much do you think they will cost?..and will they be available with a
u.s. style socket?�
Jeff Liebermann
Apr 30, 2013, 5:27:04 PM4/30/13
to
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:30:28 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
Having helped design a few utilitarian devices, that were all function
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
and totally ugly, I can appreciate the contributions of industrial
designers. My favorite example was a marine radio, with no obvious
on/off switch. I've also been a victim as much as a contributor. I
once worked on a rack mounted utility radio, where the industrial
designer had no concept of shielding, grounding, thermal management,
connector access, serviceability, and weight. The mechanical design
failed miserably in all these areas, but it sure was cool looking. The
design was approved by management which proclaimed that "aesthetics is
what sells the product, and you can always make it work later". Sigh.
John Larkin
Apr 30, 2013, 5:49:54 PM4/30/13
to
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:30:28 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>
>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
Form Without Function!
>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>
>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Michael A. Terrell
Apr 30, 2013, 8:56:19 PM4/30/13
to
"Edward A. Falk" wrote:
>
> In article <ontun896g9espv9a3...@4ax.com>,
> quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
> >
> >So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
> >perhaps I could drive a bus.
>
> Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
> wheel is totally on the wrong side and the other drivers tend
> to come right at you, honking their horns and forcing you up
> onto the sidewalk.
benj
Apr 30, 2013, 11:26:22 PM4/30/13
to
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:27:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:30:28 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>
>>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
>
> Having helped design a few utilitarian devices, that were all function
> and totally ugly, I can appreciate the contributions of industrial
> designers. My favorite example was a marine radio, with no obvious
> on/off switch. I've also been a victim as much as a contributor. I
> once worked on a rack mounted utility radio, where the industrial
> designer had no concept of shielding, grounding, thermal management,
> connector access, serviceability, and weight. The mechanical design
> failed miserably in all these areas, but it sure was cool looking. The
> design was approved by management which proclaimed that "aesthetics is
> what sells the product, and you can always make it work later". Sigh.
Obviously management was right!
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:30:28 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> It's an extreme case of form not following function.
>
>>Their slogan is "Form Beyond Function!!!"
>
> Having helped design a few utilitarian devices, that were all function
> and totally ugly, I can appreciate the contributions of industrial
> designers. My favorite example was a marine radio, with no obvious
> on/off switch. I've also been a victim as much as a contributor. I
> once worked on a rack mounted utility radio, where the industrial
> designer had no concept of shielding, grounding, thermal management,
> connector access, serviceability, and weight. The mechanical design
> failed miserably in all these areas, but it sure was cool looking. The
> design was approved by management which proclaimed that "aesthetics is
> what sells the product, and you can always make it work later". Sigh.
My favorite story was "How Xerox beat the Japanese at their own game!"
Some years back Xerox facing heavy competition from Japan and copiers
that actually worked. So they got out their wallet and developed the
model 8000 to try to fight back! But the Xerox CEO gets the big money for
a reason (read his book to see this story). Model 8000 just didn't do it.
Then he had a STROKE OF GENIUS! Change it to the model 10,000! Of course
manuals were already printed and it cost a million (stockholder) bucks to
reprint them all, but Hey! It beat Japan at their own game! It's clearly
THIS kind of corporate leadership that keeps America on top!
I can only wonder what they'd have come up with if they gave that million
buck to engineers and said "design the best copier you can".
Jeff Liebermann
May 1, 2013, 2:09:15 AM5/1/13
to
On Wed, 01 May 2013 03:26:22 GMT, benj <be...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>Model 8000 just didn't do it.
>Then he had a STROKE OF GENIUS! Change it to the model 10,000!
Been there, but not by management. The company I worked for was top
>Model 8000 just didn't do it.
>Then he had a STROKE OF GENIUS! Change it to the model 10,000!
heavy with engineers. We produced fairly well engineered but really
ugly radios. Something had to be done. Management hired an
industrial designer, who cleaned up the appearance of the radio by
converting the ugly sheet metal look, to molded plastic and aluminum
castings. However, when it hit the dealers shelves, there was a
problem. Customers that didn't have a clue on how to evaluate the
relative merits of the assorted SSB radio offerings tended to buy the
heaviest radio. So, I was told to add "as much weight as possible" to
the radio. Like any good engineer, I followed the instructions to the
letter and added about 33lbs (15kg) of lead weights to the radio,
converting it from a fly weight, to a boat anchor. Anything worth
doing, is also worth overdoing. Marketing wisely scaled back the
added weight to about 7lb (3kg) and switched from lead to steel plate.
They sent one of the sales people on tour of the local dealers to
retrofit their radios in stock. Sales immediately improved. For my
efforts, I was awarded a similar trip to the east coast, which I used
to interview with a potential client (and competitor). It never
ceases to amaze me why I wasn't fired.
There are plenty of other "tricks" in product design that have a huge
effect on merchandising. The obvious ones are color, weight, size,
and texture. The non-obvious ones are wrapped in the mysteries of
subliminals, motivational research, style, and fashion. All are the
stock and trade of the industrial designer. For example, rounded
corners appeal to women, while squared corners appeal to men.
Drivel: Selecting the model number of a radio was a lengthy process
worthy of keeping marketing out of my hair for weeks. When no
consensus was reached, someone made the capital mistake of asking me
for a suggestion. Since the other radios were called COM 150, COM
500, COM 1500, COM 2500, etc, I proposed COM1c. This was duly
presented to the growing membership of the model number selection
committee. Some members actually liked my idea, until someone noticed
that it spelled COMIC. Again, it never ceases to amaze me why I
wasn't fired.
Robin Chapman
May 1, 2013, 4:29:30 AM5/1/13
to
On 30/04/2013 18:42, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <ontun896g9espv9a3...@4ax.com>,
> quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
>>
>> So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
>> perhaps I could drive a bus.
>
> Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
> wheel is totally on the wrong side
They are on the right side...
> In article <ontun896g9espv9a3...@4ax.com>,
> quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
>>
>> So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
>> perhaps I could drive a bus.
>
> Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
> wheel is totally on the wrong side
Shmuel Metz
May 1, 2013, 2:47:47 PM5/1/13
to
In <easun81b8nj8hrpfp...@4ax.com>, on 04/30/2013
* 1,000,000,000, one thousand million, 10^9, in the short scale
* 1,000,000,000,000, one million million, 10^12, in the
long scale
Note that the term Milliard is the (old) UK equivalent of the US
Billion.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
at 02:27 AM, quasi <qu...@null.set> said:
>In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
No. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion>
>In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
* 1,000,000,000, one thousand million, 10^9, in the short scale
* 1,000,000,000,000, one million million, 10^12, in the
long scale
Note that the term Milliard is the (old) UK equivalent of the US
Billion.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
quasi
May 1, 2013, 4:40:07 PM5/1/13
to
Shmuel wrote:
I corrected my own error almost right way (within 15 minutes of
my errant post), and that was over 24 hours ago. Many others
also noted the error at about the same time.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion>
Been there, done that.
quasi
>quasi wrote:
>>
>>In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>No.
Old news.
>>
>>In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
>No.
I corrected my own error almost right way (within 15 minutes of
my errant post), and that was over 24 hours ago. Many others
also noted the error at about the same time.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion>
Been there, done that.
quasi
Message has been deleted
Artemus
May 1, 2013, 3:30:10 PM5/1/13
to
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:9ha1o8la259uboga6...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 May 2013 03:26:22 GMT, benj <be...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
>>Model 8000 just didn't do it.
>>Then he had a STROKE OF GENIUS! Change it to the model 10,000!
>
> Been there, but not by management. The company I worked for was top
> heavy with engineers. We produced fairly well engineered but really
> ugly radios. Something had to be done. Management hired an
> industrial designer, who cleaned up the appearance of the radio by
> converting the ugly sheet metal look, to molded plastic and aluminum
> castings. However, when it hit the dealers shelves, there was a
> problem. Customers that didn't have a clue on how to evaluate the
> relative merits of the assorted SSB radio offerings tended to buy the
> heaviest radio. So, I was told to add "as much weight as possible" to
> the radio. Like any good engineer, I followed the instructions to the
> letter and added about 33lbs (15kg) of lead weights to the radio,
> converting it from a fly weight, to a boat anchor. Anything worth
> doing, is also worth overdoing. Marketing wisely scaled back the
> added weight to about 7lb (3kg) and switched from lead to steel plate.
> They sent one of the sales people on tour of the local dealers to
> retrofit their radios in stock. Sales immediately improved. For my
> efforts, I was awarded a similar trip to the east coast, which I used
> to interview with a potential client (and competitor). It never
> ceases to amaze me why I wasn't fired.
>
The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB
>
>>Model 8000 just didn't do it.
>>Then he had a STROKE OF GENIUS! Change it to the model 10,000!
>
> Been there, but not by management. The company I worked for was top
> heavy with engineers. We produced fairly well engineered but really
> ugly radios. Something had to be done. Management hired an
> industrial designer, who cleaned up the appearance of the radio by
> converting the ugly sheet metal look, to molded plastic and aluminum
> castings. However, when it hit the dealers shelves, there was a
> problem. Customers that didn't have a clue on how to evaluate the
> relative merits of the assorted SSB radio offerings tended to buy the
> heaviest radio. So, I was told to add "as much weight as possible" to
> the radio. Like any good engineer, I followed the instructions to the
> letter and added about 33lbs (15kg) of lead weights to the radio,
> converting it from a fly weight, to a boat anchor. Anything worth
> doing, is also worth overdoing. Marketing wisely scaled back the
> added weight to about 7lb (3kg) and switched from lead to steel plate.
> They sent one of the sales people on tour of the local dealers to
> retrofit their radios in stock. Sales immediately improved. For my
> efforts, I was awarded a similar trip to the east coast, which I used
> to interview with a potential client (and competitor). It never
> ceases to amaze me why I wasn't fired.
>
(and probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
Art
Tom Del Rosso
May 1, 2013, 5:50:45 PM5/1/13
to
Artemus wrote:
> >
> The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB
> (and probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
> increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
holder when you put it down.
Jeff Liebermann
May 1, 2013, 10:10:58 PM5/1/13
to
On Wed, 1 May 2013 17:50:45 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>Artemus wrote:
>> >
>> The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB
>> (and probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
>> increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
>
>It probably also prevented the coiled cord from springing the mic out of its
>holder when you put it down.
It's much more complexicated than that and it didn't originate with
<tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>Artemus wrote:
>> >
>> The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB
>> (and probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
>> increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
>
>It probably also prevented the coiled cord from springing the mic out of its
>holder when you put it down.
CB. Way back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, there was a TV show
called California CHP with Broderick Crawford. (Yes, I'm showing my
age).
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l3jYfV8BtQ>
To be seen talking on the radio, a new innovation in the 1950's, he
was usually standing outside his Buick, talking into the Motorola
microphone. When done, he would often would throw the microphone into
the vehicle, where it would presumably land on the seat. That's
because the "persuader" microphone of the era was made out of heavy
cast zinc, had a rather large heavy carbon microphone element, and
included a really heavy duty coil cord, more suitable for an electric
power tool than a microphone. It was good, reliable, and survivable.
Enter the 1970's and Motorola decided that smaller and lighter radios
needed smaller and lighter microphones. Never mind that there was no
correspondent shrinkage in the size of the users. The new mic was
made from light plastic and had a light dynamic mic element. The
heavy duty coil cord didn't change. The result was when the typical
Broderick Crawford wannabe would release the microphone, the tension
in the coil cord spring would launch the mic towards the pre safety
dashboard and crack the plastic case. When I was running a 2-way
radio shop in Smog Angeles area, I was forever replacing Motorola
microphone cases for customers.
The initial Motorola solution was to add some weight to the mic, but
that made things worse. The Motorola mic didn't have much space for
much added weight, so the mic slammed into the dashboard with even
more force. Eventually, Motorola ran out of heavy duty coil cords,
and installed something lighter. The problem was they also switched
from a decent rubber coil cord, to a not so wonderful plastic coil
cord, which would crumble into small pieces when frozen. It took
about 10 years for Motorola to finally get a reliable microphone. The
plastic was thicker, the shell was solvent welded together, some
weight is added inside, it was filled with waterproof foam, and the
coil cord could easily be disconnected and replaced with an RJ45
connector at both ends. The mic element was now electret, but still
simulated a carbon microphone. At the time, replacing the chronic
broken locking tabs on the RJ45 connectors was the only remaining
problem. GE and RCA were not far behind Motorola and successfully
repeated all of Motorola's mistakes and subsequent fixes.
I'm not sure what point CB radio discovered adding "heft" to the
microphone. Oddly, as CB radios shrank, CB microphones became larger
and heavier. There's some odd psychology involved, but since this is
a family newsgroup, I won't go there.
Anyway, the weight added to the microphones had little to do with
marketing, and more to do with users trying to emulate the Boderick
Crawford style of microphone launching.
benj
May 1, 2013, 10:53:01 PM5/1/13
to
On Wed, 01 May 2013 19:10:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 1 May 2013 17:50:45 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>>Artemus wrote:
>>> >
>>> The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB (and
>>> probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
>>> increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
It's pretty funny. I have this plastic chinese battery clock that I use
> On Wed, 1 May 2013 17:50:45 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> <tom...@verizon.net.invalid> wrote:
>>Artemus wrote:
>>> >
>>> The same thing was done with the hand held microphones of CB (and
>>> probably other) radios in the 70's. A metal plate was added to
>>> increase the "heft" and assumed quality of the mike.
in the bathroom. It has a nice "heft" to it. One day it fell off the
shelf and split open. What to my wondering eyes doth appear but ROCKS
shoved into the base of the clock to make it feel "expensive".
> It took about 10 years for
> Motorola to finally get a reliable microphone. The plastic was thicker,
> the shell was solvent welded together, some weight is added inside, it
> was filled with waterproof foam, and the coil cord could easily be
> disconnected and replaced with an RJ45 connector at both ends. The mic
> element was now electret, but still simulated a carbon microphone. At
> the time, replacing the chronic broken locking tabs on the RJ45
> connectors was the only remaining problem. GE and RCA were not far
> behind Motorola and successfully repeated all of Motorola's mistakes and
> subsequent fixes.
timers reminisce magazine review) when AT&T spent a LOT of effort
perfecting telephones. Heavy. Indestructible. Totally sonically tweaked
for intelligibility. You couldn't kill one and you actually could
understand the person on the other end...pretty much no matter what.
Then all of a sudden all of what I call "real phones" disappeared and
cheap plastic versions with electret mics appeared. Now you'd THINK that
a nice wide band electret mic would sound better. And at first it does.
But soon they all seem to develop a severe case of overload distortion
and it makes conversations all guesswork. Oddly nobody seems to notice
this problem! And it's not just my kitchen phone that looks like a banana
that does this, it's lots of large business systems. So you try to place
an order and all you get is mush. My doctor's phone is like that. I swear
I'm going to have to buy him a new phone so I can talk to him!
I remember even as a kid when my ears still worked well, the cop would
get a call on the police radio and all I'd hear is:
Razzafrazzasbuzzarumblebuzz, but the cop would somehow understand it all
perfectly and respond: "You bet! I'll be there in 15 minutes!" I'd be
amazed! "How does he DO that," I'd wonder?
Jeff Liebermann
May 2, 2013, 1:10:28 AM5/2/13
to
On Thu, 02 May 2013 02:53:01 GMT, benj <be...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>My favorite whine has to do with electret mics. Time was (time for old-
>timers reminisce magazine review) when AT&T spent a LOT of effort
>perfecting telephones. Heavy. Indestructible. Totally sonically tweaked
>for intelligibility. You couldn't kill one and you actually could
>understand the person on the other end...pretty much no matter what.
You have a short memory. The old AT&T (Western Electric) were solidly
>My favorite whine has to do with electret mics. Time was (time for old-
>timers reminisce magazine review) when AT&T spent a LOT of effort
>perfecting telephones. Heavy. Indestructible. Totally sonically tweaked
>for intelligibility. You couldn't kill one and you actually could
>understand the person on the other end...pretty much no matter what.
built, but could still be killed. The dials required lubrication
every few years. The carbon mics would "pack". I had to pound them
on the table before talking. It was standard practice for carbon
dispatch microphone to be banged on the table before transmitting.
Some also sucked enough current that they got warm. The old telco
handsets were made from bakelite, which is durable, but also
expensive. If I tried to manufacture a WE model 500 phone today, it
would probably need to sell for over $200, mostly due to the high
labor content.
>Then all of a sudden all of what I call "real phones" disappeared and
>cheap plastic versions with electret mics appeared. Now you'd THINK that
>a nice wide band electret mic would sound better. And at first it does.
>But soon they all seem to develop a severe case of overload distortion
>and it makes conversations all guesswork.
capsules simply lose their charge. Basically, an electret mic is a
condenser (capacitor) microphone, without the external power supply to
charge the condenser. If the charge partially leaks away, the mic
will sound awful. I don't think you can proclaim all such electret
mics to be defective. Of the huge number of electret microphones I've
seen in numerous radios, headsets, computer mics, and cell phones,
I've identified maybe a half dozen as defective and easily replaced
them. There may be a problem with some electret mics, but it's
nowhere as bad as you make it seem.
>Oddly nobody seems to notice this problem!
>And it's not just my kitchen phone that looks like a banana
>that does this, it's lots of large business systems. So you try to place
>an order and all you get is mush. My doctor's phone is like that. I swear
>I'm going to have to buy him a new phone so I can talk to him!
capsule before buying a new phone. Saliva and dirt do a wonderful job
of blocking the audio path.
>I remember even as a kid when my ears still worked well, the cop would
>get a call on the police radio and all I'd hear is:
>Razzafrazzasbuzzarumblebuzz, but the cop would somehow understand it all
>perfectly and respond: "You bet! I'll be there in 15 minutes!" I'd be
>amazed! "How does he DO that," I'd wonder?
the voice in the presence of noise. Anyone who uses a radio initially
has the same problem. Actually, anyone who visits a foreign country
also has a similar problem. Everything initially sounds like noise or
garble. Extracting intelligence from the noise is difficult.
Eventually, the human ear (and brain) adjusts, and the intelligence
becomes much easier to extract. I had this problem when I switched
from designing FM marine radios to HF SSB radios. I couldn't
understand anyone talking on the HF radios. After a few weeks of
listening to HF SSB, I couldn't understand anyone on the FM radios. Oh
well. If you listen on the scanner long enough, you should eventually
be able to extract the speech from the noise.
rickman
May 4, 2013, 11:46:09 AM5/4/13
to
On 4/30/2013 11:26 PM, benj wrote:
>
> I can only wonder what they'd have come up with if they gave that million
> buck to engineers and said "design the best copier you can".
Duh! The model 8001 of course!
>
> I can only wonder what they'd have come up with if they gave that million
> buck to engineers and said "design the best copier you can".
Engineers aren't magicians and a million dollars is not a lot of
engineering money.
--
Rick
rickman
May 4, 2013, 11:58:10 AM5/4/13
to
never heard the message either..
--
Rick
rickman
May 1, 2013, 4:27:53 AM5/1/13
to
On 4/30/2013 2:51 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 30/04/2013 08:27, quasi wrote:
What do you tell smart Americans? Or are there none?
> A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it was fully
> redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974 parliamentary answer
> to match the US (aka international) definition. US dictionaries do not
> seem to have kept pace with this "recent" development.
>
> In fact both forms of billion existed in the UK up until the mid 60's
> but from 1951 onwards the US definition was becoming prevalent in the
> small circle of people that actually needed to use such large numbers.
I remember reading a short story in Reader's Digest a long time ago
about a guy who was visiting the UK and was in a pub. He was just
talking, but because we are two countries divided by a common language,
his statements came out rather wrong and he ended up getting the honor
of "The Biggest Liar" as in tall tales. One of them was because he
referred to something as a Billion and of course they thought he was
saying a million million.
--
Rick
> On 30/04/2013 08:27, quasi wrote:
>> RichD wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>>
>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>
>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>
>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>
> Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid Americans.
>
What do you tell smart Americans? Or are there none?
> A UK billion was a long time ago a million millions but it was fully
> redefined by Harold Wilson's government in a 1974 parliamentary answer
> to match the US (aka international) definition. US dictionaries do not
> seem to have kept pace with this "recent" development.
>
> In fact both forms of billion existed in the UK up until the mid 60's
> but from 1951 onwards the US definition was becoming prevalent in the
> small circle of people that actually needed to use such large numbers.
I remember reading a short story in Reader's Digest a long time ago
about a guy who was visiting the UK and was in a pub. He was just
talking, but because we are two countries divided by a common language,
his statements came out rather wrong and he ended up getting the honor
of "The Biggest Liar" as in tall tales. One of them was because he
referred to something as a Billion and of course they thought he was
saying a million million.
--
Rick
rickman
May 1, 2013, 4:29:41 AM5/1/13
to
On 4/30/2013 4:32 AM, quasi wrote:
> managed to get the UK to change _their_ usage (at least
> officially) to match ours.
Now if we could only get the world to agree on numerical usage of the
period and comma.
--
Rick
> Martin Brown wrote:
>> quasi wrote:
>>> RichD wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>>
>>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>>
>>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>>
>> Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid
>> Americans.
>
> Actually, it seems that we Americans (stupid or not) have
>> quasi wrote:
>>> RichD wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yesterday, I was on a college shuttle bus. The driver
>>>> was telling a passenger about the alumni donors, that
>>>> you have to give a billion $ to get your name on a
>>>> monument; "Do you know how much is a billion?
>>>> It's about a hundred million"
>>>>
>>>> Are bus drivers allowed to vote? This explains much.
>>>
>>> In the UK, a billion _is_ equal to 100 million.
>>
>> Utter rubbish - that is something daft we tell stupid
>> Americans.
>
> managed to get the UK to change _their_ usage (at least
> officially) to match ours.
Now if we could only get the world to agree on numerical usage of the
period and comma.
--
Rick
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
May 4, 2013, 11:03:26 PM5/4/13
to
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
John Larkin
May 5, 2013, 1:17:01 PM5/5/13
to
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Alfred Einstead
May 15, 2013, 6:40:35 PM5/15/13
to
On Apr 30, 12:42 pm, f...@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
> quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
> >So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
> >perhaps I could drive a bus.
> Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
> wheel is totally on the wrong side and the other drivers tend
> to come right at you, honking their horns and forcing you up
> onto the sidewalk.
The real problem is that bus drivers are usually obese, or become that
> quasi <qu...@null.set> wrote:
> >So in the US, I may be qualified to vote, and in the UK,
> >perhaps I could drive a bus.
> Forget it. Busses there are really hard to drive. The steering
> wheel is totally on the wrong side and the other drivers tend
> to come right at you, honking their horns and forcing you up
> onto the sidewalk.
way if they're on the job long enough. There is no remedy for the
underlying cause (sitting all day) that easily comes to mind.
Robert Baer
May 15, 2013, 9:01:35 PM5/15/13
to
higher, gas, brake etc pedals might not all be kept on floor afrer shape
mods).
See?
Just use your mind ...oh..you said you did not have one; sorry.
1treePetrifiedForestLane
May 15, 2013, 10:28:36 PM5/15/13
to
where can I get one/not a SegwayTM ??
timro21
May 16, 2013, 12:33:46 AM5/16/13
to
Reminds me of when George W was informed by one of his aides that two Brazilian soldiers had been killed in Iraq. "My God", he said. Then, after a short pause, "How many exactly is a brazillion?".
1treePetrifiedForestLane
May 16, 2013, 7:04:49 PM5/16/13
to
I stand corrected.
> > STAND while driving; slight mod of controls (steering wheel
> > higher, gas, brake etc pedals might not all be kept
> > on floor after shape mods).
> > STAND while driving; slight mod of controls (steering wheel
> > higher, gas, brake etc pedals might not all be kept
1treePetrifiedForestLane
May 17, 2013, 12:54:00 AM5/17/13
to
;wait ,no
> > > STAND while driving;
> > > STAND while driving;
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