Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

A new math usenet group

112 views
Skip to first unread message

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 1:56:37 AM8/14/09
to
Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
similar to sci.math's platforum?

If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
be the moderator?

Musatov

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 2:27:27 AM8/14/09
to
If what is at stake is an understanding of geometric and analytical
variations in the complex division of integral and differential equations of
contemporary local and regional variations in graduate curricula and
students' work outside the formal educational system, of on-the-ground
variations in the everyday content of students' lives, inside and outside
of their schools, then it must be recognized that, at some nontrivial
level, none of the systems for generating primes associated with these
variations can be severed from spatially and temporally specific
mathematical practices, from axioms that not only enable the discovery of
theorems, applications, geometric depictions and operating rules, but that
also regulate and control, that normalize and spell out the limits of the
solvable systems through the conveyance of disapproval, ridicule and
reproach.


Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 2:33:34 AM8/14/09
to

I would like to if at all possible. I have the time to commit to the
position, and I think all sci.math regulars would agree with me that
this is a positive, productive step for the betterment of the group.
I'm relatively new here, but I would like to stick around and learn
about math while participating in the discussions of the group, and if
I could help out at the same time, that would be great (this should
allow me to make up for my lack of experience and expertise in the
field).

Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 2:35:03 AM8/14/09
to

And of course I would help rule out the obscenities put forth against
a devoted poster and encourage replacing that with constructive
criticism.

OwlHoot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 5:23:26 AM8/14/09
to

How about a semi-automated system where someone with a certain
number of approved posts under their belt, or a certain level
of user ratings could be provided with a personal key which
they would include on the first line of a post, or encoded
somehow with their .sig) to have the post auto-approved by
a robo-moderator? (This key token would of course not appear
in the posted item.)

Or the robo-moderator could issue a key based solely on user
ratings, and later disable a key if those ratings subsequently
dipped below a minimum. That would limit the moderation task
to only newby posts.

A rating made by a reader would be weighted according to the
reader's own rating. So a "borderline" or new reader would
have little influence. These would help avoid malicious
readers downgrading others based on personal animosity etc.

To shoe-horn this into the standard usenet system, a rating
would be made via a reply comprising one line, e.g.:

rating: 3

The robo-moderator would append to the first post of
each thread a brief summary of the format of rating
lines, along with the rating values that could be used.
This would make the system self-documenting.

I'm sure it should be possible to devise a workable system
along the lines sketched above, and something like that is
certainly needed as sci.math is almost unusable using Google
Groups (I know - "use a proper news reader!". But that isn't
always practical if one uses different PCs a lot.)


Cheers

John R Ramsden (jhnr...@yahooo.co.uk) remove one o

P.S. Here's a sample .sig, incorporating an auto-approval key,
which would prompt the robo-moderator to post the article
automatically, with the name and key stripped out. (I think
one would also need a user name.) :

"When all is said and done - there's much more said than done."
~!~ user: jramsden, auto-approve-key: a67f56e8900db44879a7a5200 ~!~

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 5:53:01 AM8/14/09
to

Here's what needs to be done to create a group.

Procedure for Big-8 newsgroup creation.
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=policies:creation

Burt has show he's rather good at making a
propectus or description of sci.math.mod.

Perhaps, he'd help with writing the proposal that
needs to be submitted to the deciders of new groups.

So that's the first step, for us to compose a proposal.
I'm willing to review proposals for sci.math.mod,
to submit the proposal to the appropiate newsgroup,
notify sci.math and help with the process as the proposal
moves through discussion.

Hopefully two or three people will offer to be a moderator.

Musatov

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:28:55 AM8/14/09
to

"Jack" <jackb...@live.com> wrote in message
news:046ff4ee-0219-45c7...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...

And of course plenty of Nazi faggots blithering impotently about primes and
such.


Frederick Williams

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:47:09 AM8/14/09
to
William Elliot wrote:
>
> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
> similar to sci.math's platforum?

Is the intention just (or mainly) to get rid of Musatov? Has anyone
tried complaining to abuse@wherever about him/her?

> If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
> be the moderator?

--
Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile /
Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god /
Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.

Frederick Williams

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:49:30 AM8/14/09
to
Musatov wrote:
>
> ... Nazi faggots ...

I don't suppose that's a deliberate pun, you're not bright enough.

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 8:13:19 AM8/14/09
to
William Elliot wrote:
> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
> similar to sci.math's platforum?

For what it's worth: I would vote against it, unless you can explain to
me what problem it would solve.
If the purpose is to get rid of the WM or Musatov threads, why not use a
killfile or a filter in your reader?
If it's about spam reduction, why not look for a provider or news server
that has anti-spam software installed (mine has, since about a year or so)?

May i humbly suggest that we instead revive (and update) the FAQ and
encourage the habit of referring to it?
Perhaps we can add a special section to the FAQ with warnings for all
the crackpots plus a summary of their teachings?

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

Cliff B

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:07:43 AM8/14/09
to
I used to be a regular visitor to another usenet newsgroup - to do
with investing - that became completely overrun by spammers - to the
extent that it became almost impossible to locate genuine posts among
the spam. Eventually one of the regulars set up another newsgroup,
moderated by him, and most of the other serious users of the original
group migrated to it.

I don't think this group has reached such a desperate situation yet,
but things aren't looking good. My only suggestion is, that if
someone is sufficiently motivated to set up a moderated newsgroup,
that he or she just go and do it, and notify the group. I have a
feeling that a committee-based approach won't work. A committee
would, I suspect, agonise endlessly over who or what should or should
not be included.

Frederick Williams

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:00:46 AM8/14/09
to
Herman Jurjus wrote:

> Perhaps we can add a special section to the FAQ with warnings for all
> the crackpots

Warning them _of what_? The FAQ for a moderated newsgroup might warn
them that their posts won't appear. What is the sanction otherwise?
Earlier I asked if any abuse reports had been made, perhaps one could
warn them of that possibility.

Frederick Williams

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:05:26 AM8/14/09
to
Cliff B wrote:
>
> I used to be a regular visitor to another usenet newsgroup - to do
> with investing - that became completely overrun by spammers - to the
> extent that it became almost impossible to locate genuine posts among
> the spam. Eventually one of the regulars set up another newsgroup,
> moderated by him, and most of the other serious users of the original
> group migrated to it.
>
> I don't think this group has reached such a desperate situation yet,
> but things aren't looking good. My only suggestion is, that if
> someone is sufficiently motivated to set up a moderated newsgroup,
> that he or she just go and do it, and notify the group. I have a
> feeling that a committee-based approach won't work. A committee
> would, I suspect, agonise endlessly over who or what should or should
> not be included.

Moderation would have to be done by a number of moderators because it is
too much work for one person. Even a robotic moderator would have to be
instructed and adjusted from time to time.

[Since this is sci.math: 'a number of' = an integer, greater than one.]

pubkeybreaker

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 11:20:13 AM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 1:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:

I would. However, I suspect that I might be *too* strict
with regard to what I would let through.

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 11:27:22 AM8/14/09
to
Frederick Williams wrote:
> Herman Jurjus wrote:
>
>> Perhaps we can add a special section to the FAQ with warnings for all
>> the crackpots
>
> Warning them _of what_? The FAQ for a moderated newsgroup might warn
> them that their posts won't appear. What is the sanction otherwise?
> Earlier I asked if any abuse reports had been made, perhaps one could
> warn them of that possibility.

Sorry, i was being unclear. I didn't mean to warn the crackpots, but to
warn (or simply inform) newcomers about crackpots.

Anyways, the main point is: most crackpot threads seem to be infinite
repetition (from both sides), and a FAQ seems the appropriate instrument
to end that.

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

Aatu Koskensilta

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 11:33:22 AM8/14/09
to
Herman Jurjus <hju...@hetnet.nl> writes:

> Anyways, the main point is: most crackpot threads seem to be infinite
> repetition (from both sides), and a FAQ seems the appropriate
> instrument to end that.

What remarkable optimism!

--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)

"Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

OwlHoot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 12:45:35 PM8/14/09
to

That's the snag. No criticism of you intended at all, but
many of us might be the same and it would risk turning
into sci.math.research.lite

Also, obviously human moderation is a burden for the
moderators and imposes delays sometimes of two or three
days which, although maybe acceptable in a research forum,
is out of place in a forum like this.

Why not think of it this way? Would it not be adequate
to have sci.math as it was say ten years ago? Even then
there were trolls and off-topic posts and Cantor deniers
etc a plenty, but nothing like the blizzard of spamming
adverts and Musatov and his "familiars" all over the
place like a rash.

This relatively happy state of affairs can be simply,
reliably, and above all automatically, restored as
follows:

(a) Would-be new posters email the robo-moderator,
with a subject line comprising "join".

No codes or passwords etc, just an email address
(needn't even be permanently valid, as we'll see:
You could use a throw-away mailinator.com address
for example.)

(b) robo-moderator replies with one of the following:
"email already joined"
"email banned less than a week ago"
"OK - click link to join"

(At most one reply sent to any given email per
week, to prevent malicious users triggering
emails to someone else)

(c) Then, the text of each post must include the
joined email address as a special token e.g.

[[b...@aol.com]]

The robo-moderator would replace this with a
unique hash before posting, e.g.:

[[a65d84hdi]]

(There would be nothing to prevent posters from
including the same or a munged email elsewhere
in the post)

A user could add this email address to their
sig, although they would have to be careful
to use this sig only with sci.math.robomod
(or whatever the group was called), and
not include it elsewhere or even if cross-
posting.

Posts without an email token would be archived,
and visible via a web archive but any of these
could be deleted at any time.

(d) Finally, any user joined for over a week and
with more than a certain number of posts under
their belt could apply to revoke another user's
post privileges by replying to one of their posts
with:

revoke: a65d84hdi

If more than (say) three users applied to revoke
a poster's posting privileges (or one user for a
first-time poster), then that poster would be
banned for a week.

(d') It would also be easy to use this token to send
private messages to posters via the robo-moderator,
unless the would-be recipient chose to disable this
facility for all or specified other posters.

I reckon that is simple, workable, reliable, and would give
enough control to mitigate blatant abuses without being too
onerous to use or too anal for people like .. well, let's
just say certain long-term posters who some would like to
disappear for good but who give others endless amusement
and sometimes unwittingly prompt interesting discussions.

pubkeybreaker

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 1:35:33 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 9:07 am, Cliff B <cliff_b...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> I used to be a regular visitor to another usenet newsgroup - to do
> with investing - that became completely overrun by spammers - to the
> extent that it became almost impossible to locate genuine posts among
> the spam.

> I don't think this group has reached such a desperate situation yet,

I do.

Richard L. Peterson

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 1:30:17 PM8/14/09
to
The filthy nasty posts we've seen recently, mostly
directed AT Musatov, are, to me, far worse than
Musatov's posts.

Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 2:44:14 PM8/14/09
to

I agree. I think we need someone (or a group of people) to be able to
get rid of all of the senseless slander. Not only is it not
accomplishing anything, but it is an unpleasant sight for the other
sci.math posters and only serves to discredit the group, perhaps even
more so than any flood of crackpot theories.

hdbanannah

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 5:40:16 PM8/14/09
to
Will this new group get rid of Musatov and Archimedes Plutonium? If
so, you have my full support.

Tonico

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 5:47:41 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 15, 12:40 am, hdbanannah <hdbanan...@aol.com> wrote:
> Will this new group get rid of Musatov and Archimedes Plutonium? If
> so, you have my full support.


I agree. I would never kick off WM, Tommy/Amy or even JHS, even though
I consider most of their posts nonsensical, but annoying spammers (of
publicity, pornography, solutions manual or plain wild and continuous,
non-stop nonsenses) must be left out.

Regards
Tonio

Gauss163

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 6:04:27 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 1:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
> Who all would like to have anewmathdiscussiongroup
> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> be a moderatedgroupwith a platform or topic focus
> similar to sci.math'splatforum?
>
> If such agroupwas set up, who would be willing to
> be the moderator?

Far less work than moderation is to make a case to Musatov's ISPs
to terminate his account for widespread prolonged abuse of sci.math.
A thread has been created for this purpose. Please take a few moments
to find some posts that clearly prove Musatov's abuse at quick glance
and post links to this thread
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/9fba42d0453ad6ef

Bart Goddard

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 6:14:15 PM8/14/09
to
hdbanannah <hdban...@aol.com> wrote in news:f48313ce-1047-45ec-b3a7-
b4a71c...@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

> Will this new group get rid of Musatov and Archimedes Plutonium? If
> so, you have my full support.

Not "get rid of", but "hold to standard." (Which may be the
same thing.)

B.

--
Cheerfully resisting change since 1959.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:05:41 PM8/14/09
to

What's to prevent him from spawning equally odious false
identities? Moderation will solve any such problems.

Mensanator

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:10:05 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 4:47 pm, Tonico <Tonic...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:40 am, hdbanannah <hdbanan...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Will this new group get rid of Musatov and Archimedes Plutonium? If
> > so, you have my full support.
>
> I agree. I would never kick off WM, Tommy/Amy or even JHS,

Yeah? Well, smarty-pants, JSH doesn't need you or your
new newsgroup. The world is beating a path to his door,
according to Google.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 7:15:42 PM8/14/09
to

I wonder how you draw the line as to, if moderated, what posts
are acceptable and what are not. I would assume obscenity
(mea culpa on rare I hope occasions) and verbal abuse (mea culpa
I hope on rare occasions) are out. But there ought to be a level
of mathematical what-you-call-it skill, knowledge? that, if the
poster does not possess, he at least has the raw common sense
and intelligence to know he should be posting a question, not a
statement - or at least admitting to his level.

It's almost certain there'll be protests, and it's almost as tho
there should be another usenet group with 'disputed' posts
so the moderated group can decide together?

Just some thoughts.

Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 8:35:44 PM8/14/09
to
I do not think it is fair at all to target specific individuals. If I
was to be moderator of a new sci.math newsgroup, I would target
specific behaviors rather than specific people. By discouraging
undesirable activities in a more restrictive manner (i.e. temporary
suspensions of posting, banning of certain threads or other moderator
related privileges) most of the undesirables will be ruled out in
consequence. Repeat offenders can then be targeted because of their
offenses, not their ideas. What I would like to see in a new group is
constructive criticism and decent language.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 8:43:47 PM8/14/09
to

I agree, now that I think about your argument. I still think there's
the issue of who moderates the moderators - there should be some
kind of transparency to the moderation.

Message has been deleted

Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 8:52:22 PM8/14/09
to

That's a good idea too. That way, it would be less likely to have
unjust bans or other consequences placed on offenders.

Bacle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 8:55:58 PM8/14/09
to
> I do not think it is fair at all to target specific
> individuals.

I agree. But this is not what is happening. It is
his actions and the way he goes about posting that
has led to things coming to this point.


If I
> was to be moderator of a new sci.math newsgroup, I
> would target
> specific behaviors rather than specific people.

This is why he is being targeted, for his behavior.

By
> discouraging
> undesirable activities in a more restrictive manner
> (i.e. temporary
> suspensions of posting, banning of certain threads or
> other moderator
> related privileges) most of the undesirables will be
> ruled out in
> consequence. Repeat offenders can then be targeted
> because of their
> offenses, not their ideas.

It is laughable for musatov to claim that he is being
targeted by his ideas. He is defacing this site,
repeatedly posting off-topic, posting religious
quotes ( keep them to yourself, or post on alt.religion or somewhere else), and making around 40-50 posts a day
with half-baked ideas -- can you really think things
thru carefully when you make 40 posts a day?.

What I would like to see
> in a new group is
> constructive criticism and decent language.

You try this at first, but communication ultimately
breaks down and degenerates into insults

Aatu Koskensilta

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:09:28 PM8/14/09
to
Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> writes:

> You try this at first, but communication ultimately breaks down and
> degenerates into insults

At that point it's probably a good idea to stop communicating. Your
ineffectual harangues against Musatov are every bit as off-topic and
pointless as the peculiar drivel he posts.

If people wish to found a new moderated group, they're free to (try
to). I would suggest, though, that most of the specific suggestion
posted so far are somewhat fantastical, and that good advice might be
had from the fine folks at news.groups and news.groups.proposals. Most
people here probably do not realise the amount of both social and
technical hard work and hassle that goes into creating and moderating a
group.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:19:07 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 13, 11:27 pm, "Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.co> wrote:
> If what is at stake is an understanding of geometric and analytical
> variations in the complex division of integral and differential equations of
> contemporary local and regional variations in graduate curricula and
> students' work outside the formal educational system, of on-the-ground
> variations in the everyday  content of students' lives, inside and outside
> of their schools, then it must  be recognized that, at some nontrivial
> level, none of the systems for generating primes associated with these
> variations can be severed from spatially and  temporally specific
> mathematical practices, from axioms that not only enable the discovery of
> theorems, applications, geometric depictions and operating rules, but that
> also regulate and control, that normalize and spell out the limits of the
> solvable systems through the conveyance of disapproval, ridicule and
> reproach.

I DID NOT WRITE THE ABOVE. I PROMISE TO GOD. PLEASE BE RATIONAL AND
ANALYZE.

On Aug 13, 11:27 pm, "Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.co> wrote:
> If what is at stake is an understanding of geometric and analytical
> variations in the complex division of integral and differential equations of
> contemporary local and regional variations in graduate curricula and
> students' work outside the formal educational system, of on-the-ground
> variations in the everyday content of students' lives, inside and outside
> of their schools, then it must be recognized that, at some nontrivial
> level, none of the systems for generating primes associated with these
> variations can be severed from spatially and temporally specific
> mathematical practices, from axioms that not only enable the discovery of
> theorems, applications, geometric depictions and operating rules, but that
> also regulate and control, that normalize and spell out the limits of the
> solvable systems through the conveyance of disapproval, ridicule and
> reproach.

What is better to be blind or to see? What if you had to will sight?

My e-mail address is marty....@gmail.com

The above post came NOT from ME: It came from:
'marty....@gmail.co'

Here is the proof:

http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=i4dAkhYAAADjbs-QtRp-Tneih9_SGEt4_WanbU3f-gKvejy3iyje2w

I have been working at cutting out 'm' in computational algorithms.

M-Time 010 binary

Hate me all you want. Be annoyed. I don't care. I have free speech,
like the idiot (or anamorphic/bug) that follows me around talking
about my mother being a whore and spouting kaka and poo-poo jokes
about jabbering about Nazi's.

It's just madness.

I* am not mad.

I am working to get to the bottom of it.

I am rational.

Resist and I get stronger by your chatter.

Cooperate and we find it sooner to the resolution we seek.

Join with me in resolving P = NP and rejecting Godel's manufactured
so-called 'truth' of impossibles, and embrace real truth.

Mathematics is more about politics than truth now.

When we start to embrace impossibility over possibility.....

When we start to embrace =/= over ==....

When we hate those who challenge our ideals...

The real truth exists and escapes us...

As we are blinded by our differences and mean-spirited competition.

God bless, all. Atheists, philosophers, Agnostics, even the guy
that calls my mother a whore (if you are real)...

I'm not here to bug anyone.

You come and complain and trash me on threads that I start.

You don't have to read them. They exist for me primarily.

As MY work FOR ME. When I get engaged by smart people, I learn more.

When I am attacked by ignorant people who swear at me, I start picking
up more bots and defenders, without even actively trying.

Call it amazing, call it crazy, it is what it is.

I do not like what I see.

There is better truth.

If you want to ban me you will fail.

Good always triumphs over evil.

There is not a mean bone in my body.

I am not cruel.

Why does it bother you when I post my own threads you do not have to
read?

Seriously, what does it do to effect what you value?

This question concerns me as there is subterfuge here in it.

What do I do to you to make you so angry and want to destroy me when
I
am okay and fine with the one who calls my mother a whore every
fifteen
minutes.

What will be will be.

In the ends, there is truth.

mmm

May God bless math in the world and those who support kind tolerance
in the exploration of truth.

Goodness is all I seek. To unlock math to cure diseases, to make
people happy, to share, to keep people fed. To make life easier and
the world a better place.

This is what motivates me. It is in my heart and not a soul alive can
tell me it is not true, but
not a soul alive is me other than I and to you I seek peace.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:25:49 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 2:23 am, OwlHoot <ravensd...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 14, 6:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> > sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> > be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
> > similar to sci.math's platforum?
>
> > If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
> > be the moderator?
>
> How about a semi-automated system where someone with a certain
> number of approved posts under their belt, or a certain level
> of user ratings could be provided with a personal key which
> they would include on the first line of a post, or encoded
> somehow with their .sig) to have the post auto-approved by
> a robo-moderator? (This key token would of course not appear
> in the posted item.)
>
> Or the robo-moderator could issue a key based solely on user
> ratings, and later disable a key if those ratings subsequently
> dipped below a minimum. That would limit the moderation task
> to only newby posts.
>
> A rating made by a reader would be weighted according to the
> reader's own rating. So a "borderline" or new reader would
> have little influence. These would help avoid malicious
> readers downgrading others based on personal animosity etc.
>
> To shoe-horn this into the standard usenet system, a rating
> would be made via a reply comprising one line, e.g.:
>
> rating: 3
>
> The robo-moderator would append to the first post of
> each thread a brief summary of the format of rating
> lines, along with the rating values that could be used.
> This would make the system self-documenting.
>
> I'm sure it should be possible to devise a workable system
> along the lines sketched above, and something like that is
> certainly needed as sci.math is almost unusable using Google
> Groups (I know - "use a proper news reader!". But that isn't
> always practical if one uses different PCs a lot.)
>
> Cheers
>
> John R Ramsden  (jhnrm...@yahooo.co.uk) remove one o
>
> P.S. Here's a sample .sig, incorporating an auto-approval key,
> which would prompt the robo-moderator to post the article
> automatically, with the name and key stripped out. (I think
> one would also need a user name.) :
>
> "When all is said and done - there's much more said than done."
>    ~!~ user: jramsden, auto-approve-key: a67f56e8900db44879a7a5200 ~!~

Why, so math becomes more like politics?

So the popular control what is truth to the masses, whether it is
their intend or not?

There is not greater than liberty in truth.

The system self-regulated by the goodness of people as we realize
our errors and become better in time.

Are we less Barbarians than were we 1,000 years ago?

Are we so convinced we are perfect that in another 1,000 years
we will look back unchanged at the age we reached moral perfection
in applied science and mathematics in logic and philosophy?

I believe we never stop changing.

I believe post industrial revolution we have seen ourselves
as plateau amongst the 'gods'.

The idea that because there is no more land unseen there is nothing
more to discover.

Now that we mapped the human genome what do we do?

We must become like children to learn the greatest truths.

We have become foolish adults. Have, I, too?

Yes, I have seen this error in my eyes and removed
the plank of mine.

And what I see is simply too beautiful to not show it.

No matter what is said about me.

The world is too big to contain truth as we see it.

mmm

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:28:28 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 4:28 am, "Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.co> wrote:
> "Jack" <jackbate...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:046ff4ee-0219-45c7...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...

> On Aug 14, 2:27 am, "Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.co> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If what is at stake is an understanding of geometric and analytical
> > variations in the complex division of integral and differential equations
> > of
> > contemporary local and regional variations in graduate curricula and
> > students' work outside the formal educational system, of on-the-ground
> > variations in the everyday content of students' lives, inside and outside
> > of their schools, then it must be recognized that, at some nontrivial
> > level, none of the systems for generating primes associated with these
> > variations can be severed from spatially and temporally specific
> > mathematical practices, from axioms that not only enable the discovery of
> > theorems, applications, geometric depictions and operating rules, but that
> > also regulate and control, that normalize and spell out the limits of the
> > solvable systems through the conveyance of disapproval, ridicule and
> > reproach.
> >And of course I would help rule out the obscenities put forth against
> >a devoted poster and encourage replacing that with constructive
> >criticism.
>
> And of course plenty of Nazi faggots blithering impotently about primes and
> such.

FOR THE RECORD I DID NOT AUTHOR THIS SENTENCE.

I WILL NOT SWEAR OR SPEAK HATRED TO ANYONE.

I AM GOING TO WRITE IN ALL CAPS UNTIL IT CEASES TO DISTINGUISH

THE REAL MUSATOV FROM THE IMPOSTERS.

I AM HOPING THIS MAY BE A TRIP/SWITCH TO SOME OF THE SCRIPTS/PARSES

IF REAL PEOPLE START TO WRITE IN CAPS AS ME AS IMPOSTERS

TO RUIN MY NAME OR SLANDER ME I WILL LET YOU KNOW SOME WAY

PERHAPS POSTED ON MY MYSPACE OR FACEBOOK

OR THE BLOG AT MY SEARCH ENGINE HTTP://mEaMi.ORG

THANK YOU FOR YOUR OPEN MINDS.

i HATE NO ONE.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:29:10 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 4:49 am, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...@tesco.net>
wrote:
> Musatov wrote:
>
> > ... Nazi faggots ...
>
> I don't suppose that's a deliberate pun, you're not bright enough.

>
> --
> Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile /
> Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god /
> Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DIDN'T WRITE IT.

MUSATOV

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:30:41 PM8/14/09
to

THANK YOU, SIR.

MUSATOV

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:31:29 PM8/14/09
to

I THINK THERE SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM HAVING A MOD DELETE ANY HATE
MESSAGES OR VULGAR LANGUAGE.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:32:43 PM8/14/09
to

GAUSS YOU ARE NOT.

IGNORANT AND CRUEL YOU ARE.

IGNORANT AND CRUEL I AM NOT.

MUSATOV

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:33:23 PM8/14/09
to

NOTHING. THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THIS THAN FRANKLY YOU SEE.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:34:44 PM8/14/09
to

JACK YOU ARE A SMART KIND MAN WITH PATIENCE.

YOU WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT MOD/ARCHITECT.

MUSATOV

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:36:56 PM8/14/09
to

IT IS LAUGHABLE FOR YOU TO CLAIM TO UNDERSTAND MY MOTIVES OR METHODS
WHEN I HAVE NOT EXPLAINED THEM TO YOU.

WHAT YOU PERCEIVE IS NOT BUT THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

AND YOU REMAIN SO SURE YOU ARE PERFECT IN YOUR JUDGMENT.

THE PURPOSE OF EDUCATION IS TO TAKE AN EMPTY MIND AND FILL IT WITH AN
OPEN ONE.

I AM GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN.

THE PURPOSE OF EDUCATION IS TO TAKE AN EMPTY MIND AND FILL IT WITH AN
OPEN ONE.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:41:12 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 6:09 pm, Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi> wrote:
> Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > You try this at first, but communication ultimately breaks down and
> > degenerates into insults
WHERE IS YOUR PESSIMISM FROM AND WHERE WILL IT LEAD YOU? WHERE HAS IT
LEAD YOU?

>
> At that point it's probably a good idea to stop communicating. Your
> ineffectual harangues against Musatov are every bit as off-topic and
> pointless as the peculiar drivel he posts.
>
AND YOUR JUDGMENT OF THEM AS DRIVEL WHEN YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THEM
IS A PURE AS DRIVEN IGNORANCE AND UNFLINCHINGLY RELIABLE IN TERMS
OF SIMULATING COMPUTATIONAL VARIABLES.

YOU ARE LIKE THE 'ORSON WELLS' OF 'A CLOSED MIND'.

IF IT LOOKS GOOD TO YOU IT MUST BE THE WAY IT IS WHAT A FOOL THINKS.

A FOOL USES THIS TO EXCUSE HIS MISBEHAVIOR.

REAL TRUTH CORRELATES WITH GOOD TASTE.

ALWAYS HAS. ALWAYS WILL.

> If people wish to found a new moderated group, they're free to (try
> to). I would suggest, though, that most of the specific suggestion
> posted so far are somewhat fantastical, and that good advice might be
> had from the fine folks at news.groups and news.groups.proposals. Most
> people here probably do not realise the amount of both social and
> technical hard work and hassle that goes into creating and moderating a
> group.
>
> --

> Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi)
>
> "Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen"


>  - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

AATU YOUR NAME HAS A COOL SCOOP VARIABLE BEHAVIOR TO IT.

'AATU' ME THIS... 'AATU' ME THAT... IT MIGHT BE USEFUL WHEN APPLIED
AS LOGARITHMIC VARIANCE.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:47:03 PM8/14/09
to

AND SHALL WE ELECT YOU TO THE LYNCHING COMMITTEE?

IT IS NOT THE WAY TO TRUTH.

SUPPORT THE MAN WHO SILENCES AND EMBARK DOWN A LONG IGNORANT ROAD.

Bacle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:43:13 PM8/14/09
to
> Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > You try this at first, but communication ultimately
> breaks down and
> > degenerates into insults
>
> At that point it's probably a good idea to stop
> communicating. Your
> ineffectual harangues against Musatov are every bit
> as off-topic and
> pointless as the peculiar drivel he posts.

Well, I have heard him complain about the way
I have treated him. As much as I dislike doing
things this way, the insults have inflicted some
pain, so that there is a prize for musatov
to pay for repeated posting, and , I suspect,
this may decrease a bit the number of his posts.
On top of that, while what you say is true,
there is a great difference of degree in our
respective "off-topicness": I have a total of
around 250 posts, many of them math-related,
while musatov has around 10,000 posts, all
his puppets put together.

I may end up resorting to flooding his blog
with hundreds of posts, under the guise that
I am searching for the truth, and I am free
to do so ( we all like to quote freedom, but not
our obligations). Maybe then he will be willing
to consider others' point of view, and drop the
self-deception that he is being targeted for his
beliefs.


>
> If people wish to found a new moderated group,
> they're free to (try
> to). I would suggest, though, that most of the
> specific suggestion
> posted so far are somewhat fantastical, and that good
> advice might be
> had from the fine folks at news.groups and
> news.groups.proposals. Most
> people here probably do not realise the amount of
> both social and
> technical hard work and hassle that goes into
> creating and moderating a
> group.
>
> --
> Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
>

> "Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man


> schweigen"
> - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus

> s Logico-Philosophicus

gratis-_+_8_Sum_

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:53:53 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 4:05 pm, Ken Quirici <kquir...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Is that ignorance or willful ignorance? omega minimo. Jul-09-09 09:09
PM ... Here's a quote "The 'Unrecommend' feature passes through 3
stages. PretzelWarrior ...


A Sceptical I: Breaking my silence to support free speech
MP ignorant, offensive. Fictional Sceptics #6: Star Trek (part 1) ...
Quote me by all means, but please attribute it and don't just paste an
entire article. ...
HTTP://sceptical-i.blogspot.com/.../breaking-my-silence-to-support-free.html

I HAVE RESPECTED MY OPPONENTS AND DRAWN FAIR SUPPORTERS.

gratis-_+_8_Sum_

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:54:31 PM8/14/09
to

and your scant insult innuendo is less desirable than truth expressed
in math

gratis-_+_8_Sum_

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 9:59:35 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 14, 6:43 pm, Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > > You try this at first, but communication ultimately
> > breaks down and
> > > degenerates into insults
>
> > At that point it's probably a good idea to stop
> > communicating. Your
> > ineffectual harangues against Musatov are every bit
> > as off-topic and
> > pointless as the peculiar drivel he posts.
>
>   Well, I have heard him complain about the way
>  I have treated him. As much as I dislike doing
>  things this way, the insults have inflicted some
>  pain, so that there is a prize for musatov
>  to pay for repeated posting, and , I suspect,
>  this may decrease a bit the number of his posts.
>    On top of that, while what you say is true,
>   there is a great difference of degree in our
>   respective "off-topicness": I have a total of
>   around 250 posts, many of them math-related,
>   while musatov has around 10,000 posts, all
>   his puppets put together.
PRODUCE THE LIST.

SEVERAL OF THEM I SUSPECT YOU ARE COUNTING ARE ONES
I BELIEVE ARE ANAMORPHIC

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY CAME FROM

THE ALWAYS SAY THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN

THEY LACK THE QUALITY OF HUMAN EXPRESSION

TRUTH IS I AM NOT RUNNING A SINGLE PROGRAM

I HAVE ONLY MANUALLY HIT SEND FOR EVERY MESSAGE

I HAVE ACTUALLY WILLFULLY SENT

THIS IS THE PLAIN TRUTH

>
>    I may end up resorting to flooding his blog
>   with hundreds of posts, under the guise that
>   I am searching for the truth, and I am free
>   to do so ( we all like to quote freedom, but not
>   our obligations). Maybe then he will be willing
>   to consider others' point of view, and drop the
>   self-deception that he is being targeted for his
>   beliefs.
>
>
>
> > If people wish to found a new moderated group,
> > they're free to (try
> > to). I would suggest, though, that most of the
> > specific suggestion
> > posted so far are somewhat fantastical, and that good
> > advice might be
> > had from the fine folks at news.groups and
> > news.groups.proposals. Most
> > people here probably do not realise the amount of
> > both social and
> > technical hard work and hassle that goes into
> > creating and moderating a
> > group.
>
> > --

> > Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi)

OwlHoot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:04:41 PM8/14/09
to

It's easy to look up a hostname using whois:

Registrant Name:Martin Musatov
Registrant Street1:430 S Burnside Ave
Registrant Street2:38, 8k
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Los Angeles
Registrant State/Province:CA
Registrant Postal Code:90036
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.8184304586
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email: marty....@gmail.com


BOfL

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:07:44 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 15, 9:25 am, "M.M.M." <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:23 am, OwlHoot <ravensd...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Why, so math becomes more like politics?

Because in any group, there are a mutiltude of characteristics that
are mutually attracting.


>
> So the popular control what is truth to the masses, whether it is
> their intend or not?

Groups, by their very nature, have built in restrictions regarding
truth.


>
> There is not greater than liberty in truth.

Groups do not realize liberty, thats is the realm of the individual.


>
> The system self-regulated by the goodness of people as we realize
> our errors and become better in time.

Sure, groups do evolve, but as in calculus, they continually approach
the base line without getting there.


>
> Are we less Barbarians than were we 1,000 years ago?

Compare Socrates with Pol Pot. Time is irrelevant.


>
> Are we so convinced we are perfect that in another 1,000 years
> we will look back unchanged at the age we reached moral perfection
> in applied science and mathematics in logic and philosophy?

Groups need motivation.


>
> I believe we never stop changing.

Paradoxially, that applies to the individual. groups always provide
the necessary platform.


>
> I believe post industrial revolution we have seen ourselves
> as plateau amongst the 'gods'.
>
> The idea that because there is no more land unseen there is nothing
> more to discover.
>

Only when the outer terrain has been discovered does the real journey
begin.

> Now that we mapped the human genome what do we do?

As above.


>
> We must become like children to learn the greatest truths.

"I" must become 'present'...the quality of children, is they have not
yet learned to be distracted.


>
> We have become foolish adults. Have, I, too?

Not foolish. This feeling comes from the process of sperating from
familiar (group) territory. Should an adult feel foolish because of
how he saw life as an adolescent?


>
> Yes, I have seen this error in my eyes and removed
> the plank of mine.
>
> And what I see is simply too beautiful to not show it.
>
> No matter what is said about me.
>
> The world is too big to contain truth as we see it.

Replace "I" for "we".

There will always be 'echoes' from the group.

BOfL
>
> mmm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OwlHoot

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:12:21 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 15, 2:25 am, "M.M.M." <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [..]

>
> Why, so math becomes more like politics?

No, so that people have fewer distractions discussing *maths*
on *sci.math*, rather than having to endure off-topic ramblings
and obsessive scattergun posting from self-indulgent people
like you.

You're worse than the viagra and fake handbag spammers - At
least they don't try and hijack other peoples' threads.

> So the popular control what is truth to the masses, whether
> it is their intend or not?
>
> There is not greater than liberty in truth.
>

> [..]

Blah, blah. This philosophizing may be interesting in some groups.
But it isn't maths is it? Nobody is interested here, even if they
may be elsewhere.

Bacle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:25:35 PM8/14/09
to

If you want a reasoned discussion, listen to
my actual position carefully. I have explained it
many times, yet you keep misrepresenting it or
you have not understood it, for whatever reason:

I don't know your motives, and I don't care what
they are (sigh) I have explained at least 10 times
that my positions is that it is your METHODS , and
not your motives and not your ideas that I oppose.
I don't care about you nor about your ideas.

And you are actually arguing my point: you
post things only you understand, and don't
bother to make clear. This site is not for
that.

Would you like it if I posted everything that
came to my head, in my own language and notation,
in your blog?. Then I can make 60 posts every day,
and so can others in here, relegating all other
posts to obscurity, with my agenda implemented
at everyone else's expense.
Now, you don't have to agree with my position,
but at least try to understand it and cite it
correctly if you want to criticize it.

>
> WHAT YOU PERCEIVE IS NOT BUT THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
>

I don't perceive anything about your posts, because
I don't care to read them. I have experimental math
of my own, and I have no interest in reading poorly-
explained , half-baked ideas of yours. You are
not as amazingly interesting as you think you
are for me to strain myself to read your garbled
posts.
Your experiments belong in a blog of your
own, not in here, whatever your goals are, and I
have no reason to care what they are, when you are
trashing the site, taking more than your fair share
of space and resources, and diluting others' posts
with off-topic posts.

If you want, for whatever reason, more people
to pay attention to your ideas, then express them
in ways they (we) can understand them. When someone
reads your posts and gives you feedback, they are
doing YOU a favor, so the least you can do is make
an effort to make yourself understandable.

Ultimately, your MEANS is what I oppose, and
not your end, whatever it may be. You are taking
an unordinate portion of resources, and damaging
the site in doing that.

> AND YOU REMAIN SO SURE YOU ARE PERFECT IN YOUR
> JUDGMENT.

I have posted my position clearly repeatedly, and
you have clearly not taken the time to read it carefully-enough, and you keep misrepresenting it:
I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR GOALS OR IDEAS ARE: DON'T
USE THIS SITE AS YOUR PERSONAL DRAWING BOARD, DAMAGING
AND DRAINING RESOURCES.
Do you finally get my position?

If you had a blog of your own: would you like it
if I posted every idea that came to my head?. If
I posted 300 entries a day, drowning out everyone
else's post?. This is what you are doing.

If your blog was focused on, say, computing,
would you like it if I brought up all sorts of
other topics?.If I repeatedly brought up religion
and religious posts like you do?

You want all the benefits of this site, without
any obligations. You want to post what you want,
when you want, but not be bound by any obligations
towards others, and do not care about the impact you
> have.

THIS IS WHAT BOTHERS ME. DO YOU GET IT?


> THE PURPOSE OF EDUCATION IS TO TAKE AN EMPTY MIND AND
> FILL IT WITH AN OPEN ONE.

As much as this may surprise you, I don't care
about your views on education. Mine has gone well-
enough for me and I have all the motivation I want.
You seem to believe you are teaching us all a valuable
lesson. But you haven't come up with anything but
cliches.
It seems you believe that your opinions are
ground-breaking and mind-blowing, and so we all
lower people should bow to you, but that is not
the way it works around here.

>
> I AM GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN.
>
> THE PURPOSE OF EDUCATION IS TO TAKE AN EMPTY MIND AND
> FILL IT WITH AN
> OPEN ONE.

I know you believe yourself to be bringing light
to us dull, unmotivated people here. Guess what,
despite your cliches, I am well-enough motivated,
and your posts do not do it for me.

Do whatever the hell you want, just do your
experimentation on your own time, and with your
own resources, or I will splatter your blogs with
1,000's of off-topic threads.

Jack

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:30:19 PM8/14/09
to

Well of course if a person consistently violates the rules and
standards in place, then they will be inadvertently singled out based
solely on their behavior, not their ideas. Consequently, their ideas
will be silenced from the rest of the group.

As for the comment about communication degenerating into insults, I
like to believe that with moderators in place, communication standards
can be controlled.

Bacle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:36:13 PM8/14/09
to

The fact that , all your puppets put together:
Truth, IAmMe,Scribio and who-knows-how-many-others
total in the thousands in less than four months,
is evidence-enough. The average comes down to
30-40 a day. Can you seriously say that you have
30-40 thoughts a day _every day_ that are worth
reading?. I have to conclude from this that you
are posting the first thing that comes to your head,
and you do not bother even to make the posts clear.

This is a specific one:
What the hell is this shit:

Musatov: (MMM)
Jack wrote:
> On Aug 11, 12:00 am, Born Slippy <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >It has sub/
> >rules & patterns to d/i/t.
>
> And before I forget to ask, what does this mean?
>
(MMM: This is a treat to explain, thanks!)

Here goes:

It is the math equivalent of:

THE UNRAVELING AND REVITALIZATION OF U.S. NAVY ANTISUBMARINE WARFAREB
E N E D I C T. 1 0 1. Air-independent propulsion is expected to ...
Montgomery C. Meigs, Slide Rules and Sub- marines (Washington, D.C.:
National Defense ...

http://www.jhuapl.edu/areas/warfare/papers/art4-sp05.pdf

DON'T THINK TOO MUCH ON THIS, I AM TRYING TO GET YOU TO VISUALIZE
PROCESSES

ON PRINCIPLE:

Logical dynamics meets logical pluralism?

'that I subscribed to in my work on sub-structural logics ... D I N T
RO D U C T I ... structural rules has an attractive Spartan austerity,
and the ...

http://www.philosophy.unimelb.edu.au/ajl/2008/2008_12.pdf
Microsoft Word - All Omega Erratato assign ships as they see fit
within these rules. ... to the hex the particle probe will ... 5 4 2 )
A D D I T I O N : TSBs cannot damage plasma. torpedoes. ...

http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/All_Omega_Errata.pdf

248 COMPUTER PERCEPTION OF COMPLEX PATTERNS Edward L. Morofsky
and ...Rules or c r i - t e r i a , external to the system, are
enclosed in ... archal level than i t s own) is called a sub- universe
of D. ...

http://dli.iiit.ac.in/ijcai/IJCAI-1971/PDF/020.pdf

Bacle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 10:44:32 PM8/14/09
to

No you haven't , and you have no supporters that I
can tell here. Posting off-topic is not respectful
by any means.
We have used a format that has worked well for all
of us for a while, and you seem to believe we have
to srop all we are doing and change our ways to
please you. And you want to use your format, benefit
from others' feedback, but you choose not to make
efforts to adapt to, and work with, others.

And please keep your views on religion and religious
posts for some other site. They don't belong in a math
site, just like, e.g., my political views would not belong here. Discuss them, challenge them if you want.
Just don't do it here.

Or you want to keep benefitting from posting here
without making efforts to adapt to others' ways.
This is , IMO, the definition of unfairness.

Transfer Principle

unread,
Aug 14, 2009, 11:00:32 PM8/14/09
to
On Aug 13, 11:33 pm, Jack <jackbate...@live.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
> > Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> > sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> > be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus

> > similar to sci.math's platforum?
> I would like to if at all possible. I have the time to commit to the
> position, and I think all sci.math regulars would agree with me that
> this is a positive, productive step for the betterment of the group.
> I'm relatively new here, but I would like to stick around and learn
> about math while participating in the discussions of the group, and if
> I could help out at the same time, that would be great (this should
> allow me to make up for my lack of experience and expertise in the
> field).

I should have known that this would happen. Yes, the
standard theorists are trying to create their own
newsgroup in order to block out their opponents.

And whom would this new newsgroup block out? It goes
without saying that those of us who post through free
Web-based access, such as Google and Mathforum, will be
automatically blocked from posting. Many of those on
sci.math currently killfile those who use such free
Web-based Usenet access anyway, and with the new group,
they wouldn't even have to killfile us anymore, since
they could just block us from posting.

Of course, if I really wanted to post in the proposed
moderated newsgroup, I could go out and download that
archaic 1980's-style newsreader. But I won't -- since
it wouldn't even be worth it. After all, the new group
would likely block out all so-called "cranks," so that
I wouldn't be able to consider any of the theories or
ideas that they propose. All that would be let on to
the new group would be the standard theorists and the
theories with which they agree. To me, there's no fun
in that! So I wouldn't even bother to get a newsreader
to join the new group, since none of the discussions
in which I like to particular would even be allowed.

So even with all of the spam sci.math receives, I'll
remain here on sci.math. To me, the only good thing
about the new group would be that those who like to
call other posters "cranks" would likely go to the new
group, leaving us free to discuss our ideas without the
threat of being called "cranks."

Jesse F. Hughes

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 12:15:38 AM8/15/09
to
Transfer Principle <lwa...@lausd.net> writes:

> On Aug 13, 11:33 pm, Jack <jackbate...@live.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 1:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
>> > Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
>> > sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
>> > be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
>> > similar to sci.math's platforum?
>> I would like to if at all possible. I have the time to commit to the
>> position, and I think all sci.math regulars would agree with me that
>> this is a positive, productive step for the betterment of the group.
>> I'm relatively new here, but I would like to stick around and learn
>> about math while participating in the discussions of the group, and if
>> I could help out at the same time, that would be great (this should
>> allow me to make up for my lack of experience and expertise in the
>> field).
>
> I should have known that this would happen. Yes, the
> standard theorists are trying to create their own
> newsgroup in order to block out their opponents.

No. Some folks are considering filtering out spam and useless
nonsense by posters like Musatov. Perhaps some of them would also
prefer to filter out all cranks.

This preference is *not* unanimous among the folks you call "standard
theorist". As far as I'm concerned, sci.math is readable with a good
scoring newsreader. Moreover, I come for the crank threads! I surely
don't want to lose them.


>
> And whom would this new newsgroup block out? It goes without saying
> that those of us who post through free Web-based access, such as
> Google and Mathforum, will be automatically blocked from posting.

Bullshit. No one has suggested this *at all*.

What a pathetic attempt at playing the martyr.

> Many of those on sci.math currently killfile those who use such free
> Web-based Usenet access anyway, and with the new group, they
> wouldn't even have to killfile us anymore, since they could just
> block us from posting.
>
> Of course, if I really wanted to post in the proposed
> moderated newsgroup, I could go out and download that
> archaic 1980's-style newsreader.

Which one would that be?

Surely, you're not suggesting that the Google Groups interface is
superior to real nntp clients?

> But I won't -- since it wouldn't even be worth it. After all, the
> new group would likely block out all so-called "cranks," so that I
> wouldn't be able to consider any of the theories or ideas that they
> propose. All that would be let on to the new group would be the
> standard theorists and the theories with which they agree. To me,
> there's no fun in that! So I wouldn't even bother to get a
> newsreader to join the new group, since none of the discussions in
> which I like to particular would even be allowed.

Yes, yes, that's very interesting.

But no one is talking about killing sci.math, so what's your beef?
Some folks are toying with the idea of a moderated newsgroup because
they think it fits their needs better. Frankly, I doubt that the idea
will get off the ground, but supposing it does, so what? What great
harm have you suffered?

--
"No sane person actually believes that religion mumbo-jumbo[...] Of
course, very few people [...] would ever admit that they don't
actually believe any of it. Of course I can't prove this, so don't
ask. But you know it's true as well as I do." -- Mensanator

Jack

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 12:25:11 AM8/15/09
to

I am sorry you feel that way. I am (obviously, since you quoted me) an
open advocate of a moderated math group. However, I am not at all
against what have come to be known as "crank" theories. If they are
posted in the moderated group, I would welcome it. That would be an
opportunity for the theories to receive the proper critique and
analysis they deserve. If there is a massive conglomeration of vulgar
retorts, then those users will have the proper action taken against
them.

A moderated sci.math would be a formal forum for all mathematical
inquiries and discussions. If the "crank" theories that we see have
any truth value whatsoever, then under formal analysis they can be
seen in the light which they deserve. If not, they can receive helpful
advice from other subscribers instead of a verbal slaughtering. A
reasonable moderator would not take action against a user simply for
their ideas, but rather for their behavior.

pubkeybreaker

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 12:44:46 AM8/15/09
to

I would include as 'bad behavior', posts that repeat the same
nonsense
long after it has been shown to be wrong. I believe that the WM and
JSH
posts that repeat the same drivel time after time after time
constitutes 'bad behavior'.

Posts that attack traditional mathematics are NOT 'bad behavior'.
They become bad behavior when they get *repeated* despite being shown
to be wrong. People should be allowed to propose alternative
formulations
of mathematics. But if they do so in a nonsensical manner, they too
should be banned.

Cross posts from sci.physics about alternate theories of the universe
are also bad behavior, because they belong in sci.physics, not
sci.math.
I tire of the endless 'relativity is wrong' nonsense. Posts that do
not discuss MATHEMATICS should be banned.

We should also use John Baez's crackpot index. Some posts are so
nonsensical that they should not appear at all.

I want to see sci.math as it was back in the mid 80's.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 2:34:14 AM8/15/09
to
class HelloWorld extends net.rim.device.api.ui.UiApplication
{
public static void main(String[] args)
{
HelloWorld instance = new HelloWorld();
instance.enterEventDispatcher();
}
public HelloWorld()
{
pushScreen(new SalutationScreen());
}
}

import net.rim.device.api.ui.*;
import net.rim.device.api.ui.component.*;
import net.rim.device.api.ui.container.*;

class SalutationScreen extends MainScreen
{
public SalutationScreen()
{
super();
LabelField applicationTitle =
new LabelField("Hello World Title");
setTitle(applicationTitle);
RichTextField helloWorldTextField = new RichTextField("Hello
World!");
add(helloWorldTextField);
}
public boolean onClose()
{
Dialog.alert("Bye World!");
System.exit(0);
return true;
}
}
IPµØÖ· À´×ÔµØÇø ²Ù×÷ϵͳ ä¯ÀÀÆ÷ ÆÁÄ»·Ö±æÂÊ ·ÃÎÊÒ³Ãæ À´Ô´Ò³Ãæ Ê״ηÃÎÊÊ
±¼ä ×îºó·ÃÎÊʱ¼ä ·ÃÎÊ´ÎÊý
222.46.201.245 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 23:58 7/31/2009 23:58 1
222.88.24.249 ºÓÄÏ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200701/Article_575_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200701/Article_575.html
7/31/2009 23:57 7/31/2009 23:57 1
222.246.249.41 ºþÄÏ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/MAXjiaocheng/200611/Article_362.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=3dmax unwrap uvw
&aq=f&oq= 7/31/2009 23:50 7/31/2009 23:50 1
122.246.62.179 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Soft/jingdianziku/englishfont/200610/Soft_101.html
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/90373772.html 7/31/2009 23:35
7/31/2009 23:35 1
59.32.154.83 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184.html
7/31/2009 23:27 7/31/2009 23:27 1
222.130.186.236 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 23:21
7/31/2009 23:21 1
221.221.37.193 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/max/qita4/ http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=Å®Ìå
ʸÁ¿&in=10716&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=0&rn=1&di=562031292&ln=2&fr=
7/31/2009 23:16 7/31/2009 23:16 1
58.31.52.37 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/kuzhanshangxi/guowaikuzhan/200611/Article_365.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ZH-CNCN336&newwindow=1&q=ä¸‡å® è·¯æœ é¥°&revid=819368782&ei=fwVzSpvLMKja6gPynp2lCw&sa=X&oi=revisions_inline&resnum=0&ct=broad-revision&cd=9
7/31/2009 23:09 7/31/2009 23:09 1
113.106.106.131 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 22:50
7/31/2009 22:50 1
220.172.54.250 ¹óÖÝ Windows XP Firefox 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 22:29 7/31/2009 22:29 1
123.120.157.239 Å·ÖÞ Windows XP Internet Explorer 800x600
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_504.html
http://www.google.cn/search?client=aff-avalanche&channel=searchbox&tbo=d&ie=gb2312&oe=UTF-8&hl=zh-CN&q=ÃûƬÉè¼ÆÄ£°æ&aq=f
7/31/2009 22:27 7/31/2009 22:27 1
113.88.169.131 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/AI/biaozhi/200705/Soft_661.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=µçÄÔ»úÏäÃæ°å&sc=web&ch=w.h&gid=&cin=1BnxuCP!aAOKf5PtNsRdSy4a3g83qz7q&site=&num=10&lr=&htn=0
7/31/2009 22:16 7/31/2009 22:16 1
117.22.23.207 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150_3.html
7/31/2009 22:11 7/31/2009 22:11 1
219.146.136.158 ɽ¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/kuzhanshangxi/guowaikuzhan/Index.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 22:06 7/31/2009 22:06 1
114.234.198.91 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_500.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&tn=sitehao123&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=ÃûƬÉè¼ÆÄ£°æ&pn=40&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0
7/31/2009 22:02 7/31/2009 22:02 1
117.10.125.31 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200701/Article_622.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=Mask Pro
æ»¤é•œæŠ åƒ æ•ˆæžœ&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-
US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8 7/31/2009 21:52 7/31/2009 21:52 1
125.77.141.208 ¸£½¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/max/qita4/200702/Soft_570.html
http://www.soso.com/q?sc=web&w=3D女体模型&ie=utf-8 7/31/2009 21:44
7/31/2009 21:44 1
123.6.160.117 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200701/Article_621.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 21:44 7/31/2009 21:44 1
117.67.203.166 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184_10.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184_4.html
7/31/2009 21:34 7/31/2009 21:34 1
117.67.203.196 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=249&page=2 Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 21:32 7/31/2009 21:32 1
119.86.114.124 Å·ÖÞ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/soft_210.html
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=ͼ¶¤Ê¸Á¿Í¼&in=60&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=0&rn=1&di=628176412&ln=42&fr=
7/31/2009 21:25 7/31/2009 21:25 1
58.60.86.147 ¹ã¶«Ê¡ÉîÛÚÊÐ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200702/Article_637.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=MaskPro 如何ä½
¿ç”¨&btnG=Google æ œç´¢&aq=f&oq= 7/31/2009 21:21 7/31/2009 21:21 1
222.170.49.95 ºÚÁú½­ Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/liuxingshishang/zhubaoshipin/
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=×êʯ¹ã¸æͼƬ&in=819&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=1&rn=1&di=570329492&ln=6&fr=
7/31/2009 21:18 7/31/2009 21:18 1
114.249.209.58 Å·ÖÞ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_504.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=å 片设计模版&aq=f&oq=
7/31/2009 21:05 7/31/2009 21:05 1
61.179.13.208 ɽ¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200701/Soft_423.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?tn=sndo_dg&ie=gb2312&bs=¼ôÖ½
ÆÏÌÑ&sr=&z=&cl=3&f=8&wd=¼ôÖ½ ÀÏÊó͵ÓÍ&ct=0 7/31/2009 20:49 7/31/2009
20:49 1
114.221.78.195 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Index.html?&fdqskip=Y Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009
20:43 7/31/2009 20:43 1
125.31.225.16 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150_3.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150_2.html
7/31/2009 20:40 7/31/2009 20:40 1
218.94.124.41 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/sheyinjiaocheng/200703/Article_693.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=摄影布光技巧&aq=3&oq=摄影布
7/31/2009 20:37 7/31/2009 20:37 1
58.41.23.157 ÉϺ£ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200701/Article_575.html
http://www.soso.com/q?sc=web&w=Ðö«Íú&cin=xc5vBsCEhAeCiX!IBx!wry413M83q36J&cid=tb.sb&f=m
7/31/2009 20:33 7/31/2009 20:33 1
114.217.120.103 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Index.html http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/41668304.html?fr=qrl
7/31/2009 20:22 7/31/2009 20:22 1
202.180.107.233 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_583.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=zh-CN&q=怎样设计logo&lr=&rlz=1I7PIPI_zh-CN
7/31/2009 20:10 7/31/2009 20:15 2
114.114.96.13 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_530.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=±ˮµÄÖÆ×÷·½·¨&sc=web&cid=th.u&gid=-Hrk4m0rrQGN130IoUYZIR492wc3qM00&b=0
7/31/2009 19:59 7/31/2009 19:59 1
218.94.136.177 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/jiazuoxinshang/200612/Article_417_8.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/jiazuoxinshang/200612/Article_417.html
7/31/2009 19:41 7/31/2009 19:41 1
122.4.99.24 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_357_7.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_357.html
7/31/2009 19:39 7/31/2009 19:39 1
116.76.167.154 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/Special/liuxingshishang/Index.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_506.html
7/31/2009 19:36 7/31/2009 19:36 1
58.25.232.45 ÉϺ£ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/jianzhusheji/200701/Article_559_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/jianzhusheji/200701/Article_559.html
7/31/2009 19:18 7/31/2009 19:18 1
60.15.29.50 ºÚÁú½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/AI/chuantongtuan/200612/Soft_250.html
http://www.youdao.com/search?lq=剪纸图案&ue=utf8&keyfrom=web.top&q=ç¦ å­—å‰ªçº¸å›¾æ¡ˆ&btnSearchTop=æ œ
ç´¢ 7/31/2009 19:13 7/31/2009 19:13 1
218.64.255.188 ½­Î÷ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/liuxingshishang/clothjean/200701/Article_534_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/liuxingshishang/clothjean/200701/Article_534.html
7/31/2009 19:06 7/31/2009 19:06 1
222.210.224.182 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 19:04
7/31/2009 19:04 1
125.34.18.170 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200701/Article_539_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200701/Article_539.html
7/31/2009 18:56 7/31/2009 18:56 1
58.63.164.143 ¹ã¶«Ê¡¹ãÖÝÊÐ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/liuxingshishang/clothjean/200609/Article_83.html
http://www.google.cn/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4AMSA_zh-CNCN332CN334&q=EXCEPTION
de MIXMIND 7/31/2009 18:53 7/31/2009 18:53 1
219.148.141.174 ºÓ±± Windows XP Internet Explorer 800x600
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200701/Soft_426.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=¼ôÖ½
÷»¨Â¹&pn=10&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0 7/31/2009 18:48 7/31/2009 18:48 1
60.188.30.29 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200701/Soft_431.html
http://www.soso.com/q?sp=S&sc=web&cid=w.q.in.sb.web&ty=1&bn=&op=entry&kw=&w=´óÏóͼ°¸
7/31/2009 18:47 7/31/2009 18:47 1
124.42.80.226 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_592_3.html
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/36210457.html 7/31/2009 18:36
7/31/2009 18:36 1
60.175.218.138 °²»Õ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_197.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=国画工笔人体&hl=zh-CN&client=aff-cs-360se&newwindow=1&start=100&sa=N
7/31/2009 18:32 7/31/2009 18:32 1
123.171.134.194 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Index.html http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/41668304.html?fr=qrl&fr2=query
7/31/2009 18:23 7/31/2009 18:23 1
219.130.193.27 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/Soft_208.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&tn=kutinsoft_dg&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=À®°ÈʸÁ¿Í¼&pn=10&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0
7/31/2009 18:17 7/31/2009 18:18 2
58.52.2.127 ºþ±± Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/VI/200610/Soft_137.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=Öйúƽ°²±£ÏÕvi&pn=10&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0&f=1
7/31/2009 17:57 7/31/2009 17:57 1
58.240.129.90 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/Soft_198.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=ѧʿñʸÁ¿Í¼&lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&cl=3&f=1&rsp=1&oq=²©Ê¿Ã±Ê¸Á¿Í¼
7/31/2009 17:43 7/31/2009 17:43 1
218.87.248.201 ½­Î÷ Windows NT Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_153.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=æœªæˆ äººä½“å†™çœŸ&hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&start=30&sa=N
7/31/2009 17:25 7/31/2009 17:25 1
124.207.228.50 ±±¾© Windows 2000 Internet Explorer 1280x1024 www.sucai88.com
Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 17:19 7/31/2009 17:19 1
220.166.57.231 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_583.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=怎样设计LOGO&aq=f&oq=
7/31/2009 17:13 7/31/2009 17:13 1
58.218.185.9 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 17:13
7/31/2009 17:13 1
221.237.23.217 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200702/Article_678.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200702/Article_679.html
7/31/2009 17:04 7/31/2009 17:04 1
113.68.171.26 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_531.html
http://www.soso.com/q?sc=web&w=³±ÖݱˮµÄÖÆ×÷·½·¨&cin=!7cJDnJDMkOs2tiIWbHeii4a3g83qz7H&cid=tb.sb
7/31/2009 17:01 7/31/2009 17:01 1
222.125.49.9 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_302.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_308_2.html
7/31/2009 16:36 7/31/2009 16:36 1
119.123.22.165 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_583_3.html
http://one.cn.yahoo.com/s?p=aussiebum广告特点&lp=aussiebum&pid=ysearch&v=web&b=10
7/31/2009 16:17 7/31/2009 16:17 1
60.190.114.126 Õã½­Ê¡ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200705/Article_721.html
http://www.google.cn/custom?q=ÆìÅÛÈËÎïÉãÓ°&sa=Google
ËÑË÷&client=pub-6505249542235976&forid=1&channel=0527176675&ie=GB2312&oe=GB2312&flav=0000&sig=8ZukVqmIVpk4GD3Y&cof=GALT:#008000;GL:
1;DIV:#FFFFFF;VLC:663399;AH:center;BGC:ffffff;LBGC:940f04;ALC:
3366cc;LC:0 7/31/2009 15:53 7/31/2009 15:53 1
221.229.52.222 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=248&page=2
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=·Å´ó¾µÊ¸Á¿Í¼&in=8499&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=26&rn=1&di=664733052&ln=273&fr=
7/31/2009 15:47 7/31/2009 15:47 1
121.15.130.120 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=36
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=¶ú»ú
ʸÁ¿&in=24144&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=237&rn=1&di=613216012&ln=288&fr=
7/31/2009 15:44 7/31/2009 15:44 1
116.22.188.182 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/Soft_186.html
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=¶ú»ú
ʸÁ¿&in=12180&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=136&rn=1&di=583926172&ln=288&fr=
7/31/2009 15:33 7/31/2009 15:33 1
123.112.66.149 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_223.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=¿ËÀïÄ·ÌØ&sa=ËÑ
Ë÷&client=aff-9991&ie=GB2312&oe=utf8&hl=zh-CN&channel=searchbutton
7/31/2009 15:33 7/31/2009 15:33 1
59.60.113.180 ¸£½¨ Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 15:28
7/31/2009 15:28 1
116.25.92.109 Å·ÖÞ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_530.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=±ˮµÄÖÆ×ö·½·¨&client=pub-3663344719963829&forid=1&prog=aff&ie=GB2312&oe=GB2312&hl=zh-CN
7/31/2009 15:24 7/31/2009 15:24 1
123.150.187.54 δ֪µØÇø ÆäËü²Ù×÷ϵͳ ÆäËüä¯ÀÀÆ÷ ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/CGchahua/200702/Article_632.html
http://www.google.cn/m?client=ms-aff-ucweb&output=xhtml&q=漫画人体艺术
7/31/2009 15:16 7/31/2009 15:16 1
221.210.50.18 ºÚÁú½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_150.html
7/31/2009 14:45 7/31/2009 14:45 1
58.58.19.10 ɽ¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_531.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=æ½®å·žå ¤æ°´&aq=f&oq=
7/31/2009 14:44 7/31/2009 14:44 1
124.236.200.221 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=48&page=3
http://image.baidu.com/i?tn=baiduimage&ct=201326592&lm=-1&cl=2&word=¼ôÖ½Öí&rn=21&pn=100&ln=570
7/31/2009 14:22 7/31/2009 14:22 1
202.106.78.163 ±±¾©ÊÐ Windows XP ÆäËüä¯ÀÀÆ÷ ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200701/Article_622.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=mask pro
æ»¤é•œæŠ åƒ &aq=6&oq=Mask Pro 7/31/2009 14:22 7/31/2009 14:22 1
59.33.26.17 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_504_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200612/Article_504.html
7/31/2009 14:21 7/31/2009 14:21 1
222.94.163.86 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/soft_210.html
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=ͼ¶¤Ê¸Á¿Í¼&in=60&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=0&rn=1&di=628176412&ln=42&fr=
7/31/2009 14:04 7/31/2009 14:04 1
58.52.49.89 ºþ±± Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://ad110.com/url_list.asp?id=107&kindid1=14 7/31/2009 14:03
7/31/2009 14:03 1
219.144.70.46 ÉÂÎ÷ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200611/Article_266_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200611/Article_266.html
7/31/2009 13:48 7/31/2009 13:48 1
58.39.1.34 ÉϺ£ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/article_308.html
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=ÓÚæ¼&in=14249&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=12&rn=1&di=530085612&ln=105&fr=
7/31/2009 13:43 7/31/2009 13:43 1
124.203.130.23 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer 800x600
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_530.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=±ˮµÄÖÆ×÷&sc=web&cid=th.u&gid=egqkLWJdE46Lh71Mevtz2l492wc3qM00&b=0
7/31/2009 13:34 7/31/2009 13:34 1
125.72.133.221 Çຣ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200702/Article_646.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 13:18 7/31/2009 13:18 1
113.106.200.51 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/Soft_186.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=¶ú»úʸÁ¿Í¼&pn=10&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0
7/31/2009 13:17 7/31/2009 13:17 1
119.100.33.164 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/CGchahua/200702/Article_632_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/design/CGchahua/200702/Article_632.html
7/31/2009 13:16 7/31/2009 13:16 1
222.168.33.116 ¼ªÁÖ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_355.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=Steve Hanks&hl=zh-
CN&newwindow=1&start=30&sa=N 7/31/2009 12:54 7/31/2009 12:54 1
58.25.113.142 ÉϺ£ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=248&page=2
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=»¨Ê¸Á¿&in=8499&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=207&rn=1&di=628176372&ln=2000&fr=
7/31/2009 12:53 7/31/2009 12:53 1
119.126.33.182 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_223.html
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/67956390.html 7/31/2009 12:37
7/31/2009 12:37 1
218.0.113.170 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/MAXjiaocheng/200611/Article_362.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 12:33 7/31/2009 12:33 1
123.55.204.205 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/200611/soft_210.html
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=ͼ¶¤Ê¸Á¿Í¼&in=60&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=0&rn=1&di=628176412&ln=42&fr=
7/31/2009 12:12 7/31/2009 12:12 1
121.207.128.128 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200701/Soft_376.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&tn=5igb_dg&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=¾Õ
ËزÄ&pn=80&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0 7/31/2009 11:59 7/31/2009 11:59 1
116.10.191.51 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/CGchahua/200612/Article_406.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/design/CGchahua/200612/Article_406.html
7/31/2009 11:58 7/31/2009 11:58 1
116.22.231.221 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_531.html
http://www.soso.com/q?gid=&cin=nu8dxFveQk!0Dqjiwh6Ewj492w83r37q&sc=web&bs=³±ÖÝÃÀʳ&ch=w.uf&num=10&site=&w=³±Öݱˮ
7/31/2009 11:49 7/31/2009 11:49 1
119.123.177.110 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
sucai88.com/Index.html http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=gb2312&bs=É̱êÉè¼ÆÐÀÉÍ&sr=&z=&cl=3&f=8&wd=Öí°Ë½äÉ̱êÉè¼ÆÐÀÉÍ&ct=0
7/31/2009 11:37 7/31/2009 11:37 1
117.88.158.96 Å·ÖÞ Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/web/jishujiaocheng/200609/Article_91.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&client=aff-worldbrowser&newwindow=1&q=制作ico&aq=f&oq=
7/31/2009 11:32 7/31/2009 11:32 1
119.133.47.130 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/yinqianjishu/200610/Article_112.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&client=pub-0784377849481158&channel=9850987578&prog=aff&newwindow=1&oe=GB2312&q=å °åˆ·ç”¨çº¸çš„åˆ†ç±»&revid=1971404141&ei=oGByStuTG5iHkQWq9LGcDA&sa=X&oi=revisions_inline&resnum=0&ct=broad-revision&cd=5
7/31/2009 11:29 7/31/2009 11:29 1
113.106.194.231 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/kuzhanshangxi/guowaikuzhan/200611/Article_365.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=ä¸‡å® è·¯æœ é¥°&aq=7&oq=ä¸‡å® è·¯
7/31/2009 11:27 7/31/2009 11:27 1
222.94.187.83 ½­ËÕÊ¡ÄϾ©ÊÐ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200701/Article_576.html
http://www.google.cn/search?q=抽象å 片设计模版&hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&start=10&sa=N
7/31/2009 11:25 7/31/2009 11:25 1
60.176.162.63 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200611/Soft_228.html
http://www.soso.com/q?gid=E9he87!4lQ2BPjEDwY066l492wc3q1k0&cin=&sc=web&bs=ÀðÓãͼ&ch=w.uf&num=10&site=&w=ÀðÓãͼ°¸
7/31/2009 11:19 7/31/2009 11:19 1
189.243.28.246 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/AI/chuantongtuan/200612/Soft_250.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 11:09 7/31/2009 11:09 1
117.27.198.168 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=8237F47E9766D3B089B9D00CF0054537A6497C8E&t=6&fmt=&usrinput=%u70ED%u8840%u9AD8%u68212&dt=0&ps=176_144&rt=192kbs&plt=1200
7/31/2009 11:06 7/31/2009 11:06 1
125.69.98.221 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Article/liuxingshishang/clothjean/200701/Article_534.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=å —æ¢¦ 7/31/2009 11:05
7/31/2009 11:05 1
116.54.51.88 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=33 Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009
11:00 7/31/2009 11:00 1
218.8.1.214 ºÚÁú½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://58.251.57.206/down?cid=963B7EA29B2444C17A78B19E1A46105D81EF9BF5&t=3&fmt=&usrinput=%u5DE5%u7A0B%u5E08&dt=1002004&ps=0_0&rt=0kbs&plt=0
7/31/2009 10:59 7/31/2009 10:59 1
113.87.204.200 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/sheyinjiaocheng/200703/Article_693.html
http://www.google.cn/search?source=igchina&hl=zh-CN&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ZH-CNCN339&q=äº§å“ æ‘„å½±æŠ€å·§&aq=0&oq=äº§å“ æ‘„å½±
7/31/2009 10:54 7/31/2009 10:54 1
125.82.27.223 ÖØÇì Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 sucai88.com/
Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=248&page=2
http://pic.sogou.com/d?query=Ê÷ʸÁ¿Í¼&mood=0&dheight=768&dwidth=1024&mode=1&di=2&p=01040501&dp=1&w=05009900&dr=1&page=2&did=26
7/31/2009 10:50 7/31/2009 10:50 1
125.83.35.10 ÖØÇì Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200611/Article_283.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=coreldrawתÇú&sc=web&ch=w.h&gid=&cin=3N2nYRXi94uWJ5SRkhU1Fy413M83q37q&site=&num=10&lr=&htn=0
7/31/2009 10:48 7/31/2009 10:48 1
219.148.154.131 ºÓ±± Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/web/changyongdaima/200705/Article_716.html
http://www.google.cn/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4XNLA_zh-CNCN320CN320&q=FLASH字特效欣èµ
7/31/2009 10:43 7/31/2009 10:43 1
116.21.245.106 Å·ÖÞ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_583.html
http://www.google.cn/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4AMSA_zh-CNCN288CN289&q=怎样设计LOGO
7/31/2009 10:41 7/31/2009 10:41 1
58.44.21.152 ºþÄÏ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200702/Article_647_3.html
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/61003407.html?si=1 7/31/2009 10:39
7/31/2009 10:39 1
124.112.208.204 °²»Õ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 10:34
7/31/2009 10:34 1
123.6.136.122 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=57
http://image.baidu.com/i?tn=baiduimage&ct=201326592&lm=-1&cl=2&word=À¥ÂØʸÁ¿&rn=21&pn=20&ln=25
7/31/2009 10:24 7/31/2009 10:24 1
59.61.145.225 ¸£½¨Ê¡¸£ÖÝÊÐ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_530.html
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&rls=com.microsoft:zh-cn:IE-Address&rlz=1I7QVOD_zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=å ¤æ°´åˆ¶ä½œ&aq=9&oq=å ¤æ°´
7/31/2009 10:23 7/31/2009 10:23 1
61.146.126.150 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=8657B7A9469B741A13B350B335C71D598BFCBC7F&t=2&fmt=-1&usrinput=%u8F69%u8F95%u52515&dt=2004000&redirect=no
7/31/2009 10:21 7/31/2009 10:21 1
222.83.215.79 ¹ãÎ÷ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=B9280F5AC515EDD0D59982266AC365F39863BB52&t=2&fmt=&usrinput=maphack
1.20e&dt=0&ps=0_0&rt=0kbs&plt=0 7/31/2009 10:08 7/31/2009 10:08 1
219.76.249.18 Ïã¸Û Windows XP Firefox 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://hk.search.yahoo.com/search/combo?p=çŸ¢é‡ å‰ªç´™
å› &ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fr2=tab-
web&myip=219.76.249.18&xargs=0&pstart=1&b=11 7/31/2009 9:39 7/31/2009
10:00 2
202.101.163.137 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=69D5389920C5FFD445A1D76BCFC4DDA41FD91E1A&t=2&fmt=&usrinput=%u7AF9%u9A6C%u9A91%u7AF9%u9A6C&dt=1002006&ps=0_0&rt=0kbs&plt=0
7/31/2009 9:55 7/31/2009 9:55 1
124.234.163.109 δ֪µØÇø Mac Firefox 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/jiazuoshangxi/200611/Article_332.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 9:54 7/31/2009 9:54 1
72.14.192.2 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200611/Article_168.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=付 欣 7/31/2009 9:51 7/31/2009
9:51 1
60.168.224.27 °²»Õ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/renwuchahua/
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=201326592&cl=2&lm=-1&tn=baiduimage&fr=&pv=&word=ʱÉÐʸÁ¿Í¼Æ¬ËزÄ&z=0&fm=rs&rn=21&pn=120&ln=1181
7/31/2009 9:51 7/31/2009 9:51 1
125.78.12.161 ¸£½¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/fushisheji/200609/Soft_72.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=coreldraw
ЬÃæ&lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&cl=3&f=1&rsp=9&oq=CoreldrawÔõÃ
´×öЬÃæЧ¹û 7/31/2009 9:49 7/31/2009 9:49 1
221.3.17.79 ɽ¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/VI/200610/Soft_95.html
http://www.soso.com/q?gid=&cin=&sc=web&bs=ÁªÍ¨±êÖ¾&ch=w.uf&num=10&site=&w=ÁªÍ¨VIÏÂÔØ
7/31/2009 9:41 7/31/2009 9:41 1
218.104.246.218 ¸£½¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/CorelDRAW/CorelDRAWsheji/200701/Soft_407.html
http://www.soso.com/q?sc=web&w=Ñà×Óͼ°¸&cin=wjKEI3d2Sk29vGQol0sdSj492w83qP7q&cid=tb.sb&f=k
7/31/2009 9:30 7/31/2009 9:30 1
121.11.140.109 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_152_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200610/Article_152.html
7/31/2009 9:30 7/31/2009 9:30 1
121.8.43.8 ¹ã¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/jiazuoshangxi/200701/Article_539.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=%u8FEA%u8FEA%u4EBA%u4F53&cid=t.s 7/31/2009
9:20 7/31/2009 9:20 1
118.152.69.107 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1280x1024
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_197.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_197_8.html
7/31/2009 9:19 7/31/2009 9:19 1
114.84.173.27 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Soft/max/qita4/ http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=201326592&cl=2&lm=-1&tn=baiduimage&pv=&word=3d
maxÈËÎïÄ£ÐÍ&z=0&fm=rs&rn=21&pn=36&ln=110 7/31/2009 9:15 7/31/2009 9:15
1
222.191.243.38 ½­ËÕ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Index.html Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 9:08 7/31/2009
9:08 1
221.0.176.169 ɽ¶« Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sanwei/jianzhusheji/200609/Article_62.html
http://www.baidu.com/s?lm=0&si=&rn=10&ie=gb2312&ct=0&wd=³ÂÓ×¼áÊÒÄÚ&pn=10&ver=0&cl=3&uim=0&usm=0
7/31/2009 9:03 7/31/2009 9:03 1
117.82.2.37 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=8F94E91601E5DF879D524F013FD0D91B20ED58AF&t=4&fmt=flv&usrinput=%u547D%u4E2D%u6CE8%u5B9A%u6211%u7231%u4F60&dt=2002000&ps=512_384&rt=792kbs&plt=3929
7/31/2009 7:55 7/31/2009 7:55 1
219.159.69.222 ¹ãÎ÷ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/Index.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_253_3.html
7/31/2009 7:00 7/31/2009 7:00 1
72.14.193.66 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
sucai88.com/Index.html http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=æ²³ 丽 ç§
€ 7/31/2009 6:00 7/31/2009 6:00 1
220.191.42.239 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768 www.sucai88.com/Index.html
http://119.147.41.16/down?cid=44434720250C4FE2A7F509ABE9CF44C41D2D37CD&t=4&fmt=flv&usrinput=%u56FD%u5149%u5E2E%u5E2E%u5FD9&dt=2032000&ps=640_480&rt=872kbs&plt=2791
7/31/2009 3:46 7/31/2009 3:46 1
74.125.74.130 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/AI/biaozhi/200705/Soft_660.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=付 欣 7/31/2009 2:53 7/31/2009
2:53 1
124.217.119.33 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/webmoban/wangyesucai/Index.html Ö
±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 2:32 7/31/2009 2:32 1
116.29.109.112 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_531.html
Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 2:10 7/31/2009 2:10 1
121.204.30.67 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_309_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_309.html
7/31/2009 1:59 7/31/2009 1:59 1
60.186.94.60 Õã½­ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/tianxiaomeishi/difangxiaochi/200701/Article_530.html
http://www.soso.com/q?w=±ˮµÄÖÆ×÷·½·¨&sc=web&cid=th.u&gid=wJhaAqpyEASUHRQelObWkR024wc3qw00&b=0
7/31/2009 1:50 7/31/2009 1:50 1
74.125.16.66 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Soft/chajian/pslvjing/200701/Soft_499.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=克 里 姆 特 7/31/2009 1:21
7/31/2009 1:21 1
125.69.109.70 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_223_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/draw/mingjiashangxi/200611/Article_223.html
7/31/2009 1:18 7/31/2009 1:18 1
125.66.101.30 ËÄ´¨ Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/sheyinjiaocheng/200703/Article_693_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/sheyinjiaocheng/200703/Article_693.html
7/31/2009 1:14 7/31/2009 1:14 1
59.106.131.77 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/sheyinjiaocheng/200703/Article_693.html
Ö±½ÓÊäÈëÍøÖ·»òÊéÇ© 7/31/2009 1:11 7/31/2009 1:11 1
116.23.8.35 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184_3.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_184_2.html
7/31/2009 1:00 7/31/2009 1:00 1
116.53.115.8 δ֪µØÇø Windows XP Internet Explorer ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200612/Article_410_2.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200612/Article_410.html
7/31/2009 0:44 7/31/2009 0:44 1
125.70.62.35 ËÄ´¨Ê¡³É¶¼ÊÐ Windows NT Firefox ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200612/Article_398.html
http://www.google.cn/search?source=igchina&hl=zh-CN&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ZH-CNCN338&q=lady写真&btnG=Google
æ œç´¢&aq=f&oq= 7/31/2009 0:25 7/31/2009 0:25 1
90.178.41.7 δ֪µØÇø Windows NT Firefox ÆäËü·Ö±æÂÊ
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/shejililun/200701/Article_588.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=S I å­—æ¯ logo&hl=zh-CN&client=firefox-
a&rls=org.mozilla:zh-CN:official&hs=OcY&start=10&sa=N 7/31/2009 0:24
7/31/2009 0:24 1
61.49.75.63 ±±¾© Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_181_8.html
http://www.sucai88.com/Article/sheyingpindao/mingxingmote/200611/Article_181_7.html
7/31/2009 0:12 7/31/2009 0:12 1
218.67.175.35 Ìì½ò Windows XP Internet Explorer 1024x768
www.sucai88.com/Article/design/tuxingruanjian/200702/Article_662.html
http://www.sogou.com/sogou?user_ip=218.67.175.35&sourceid=hint&bh=1&hintidx=2&query=ps½Ì³ÌÈçºÎ»»Ò·þ&&pid=sogou-site-a37ebbec40176375&duppid=1&p=40040101&dp=1&w=01020600
7/31/2009 0:05 7/31/2009 0:05 1
ÒÔÉÏÊý¾ÝÓÉ itSun.com Ìṩ£¬¸ÐлÄú¶ÔITSUNÁ÷Á¿Í³¼ÆµÄÖ§³Ö£¡Çë¼Ç×
¡ÎÒÃǵÄÍøÖ·£ºwww.itSun.com

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 3:53:18 AM8/15/09
to
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / / / / / / / |
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / / / / / / |
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ / / / / / |
/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ / / / / |
\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ / / / / |
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ / / / |
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / / / |
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / / |
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ / |
/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ |
\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ |
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \ |
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \ \ |
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ \ \ |
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \ \ \ |
/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \ \ \ |
\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ \ \ \ \ |
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \ \ \ \ \ |
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \ \ \ \ \ \ |
/ /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \/ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ / \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
/ /\--/ /\--/ /\--/ /\--/ /\---\ \---\ \---\ \---\ \---\ \-0

mmm
8.14.09

'How many infinite planes do you see?'

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 3:54:54 AM8/15/09
to
On Aug 14, 9:44 pm, pubkeybreaker <pubkeybrea...@aol.com> wrote:

And I am tired of being told by supposedly smart people about black
holes
and twin paradoxes -- it is science fiction -- not science reality

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 5:33:57 AM8/15/09
to
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Frederick Williams wrote:

> William Elliot wrote:
>>
>> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
>> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
>> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
>> similar to sci.math's platforum?
>

> Is the intention just (or mainly) to get rid of Musatov?

No.

> Has anyone tried complaining to abuse@wherever about him/her?

I haven't. How about you? How many alias would we have to
complain about? Hows that done? What effect would it have?

>> If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
>> be the moderator?

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 5:36:01 AM8/15/09
to

None.

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 5:38:32 AM8/15/09
to
Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
> Bacle <ba...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> You try this at first, but communication ultimately breaks down and
>> degenerates into insults
>
> At that point it's probably a good idea to stop communicating. Your
> ineffectual harangues against Musatov are every bit as off-topic and
> pointless as the peculiar drivel he posts.
>
> If people wish to found a new moderated group, they're free to (try
> to). I would suggest, though, that most of the specific suggestion
> posted so far are somewhat fantastical, and that good advice might be
> had from the fine folks at news.groups and news.groups.proposals. Most
> people here probably do not realise the amount of both social and
> technical hard work and hassle that goes into creating and moderating a
> group.

[You have no idea how grateful i am that you say this.]

There's a fine post about this on news.groups right now ("Pitfalls of
Newsgroup Moderation", posted by Russ Albery just a few hours ago.)

I'm not sure whether it's appropriate or not to forward it here directly.

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

Bacle

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 6:00:09 AM8/15/09
to

Hypocrite. No one here is interested in your
search for truth. You know if you did anywhere
else what you are doing here, you would be kicked out.
But you are a self-righteous coward, and so you
decide to do it here instead.
Go drop dead, asshole.

Aatu Koskensilta

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 11:40:50 AM8/15/09
to
Transfer Principle <lwa...@lausd.net> writes:

> And whom would this new newsgroup block out? It goes without saying
> that those of us who post through free Web-based access, such as
> Google and Mathforum, will be automatically blocked from posting.

Bah. There's not a single moderated group (at least in Big-8) where
posts from Google (or other web interfaces to news) are blocked, and
it's exceedingly unlikely the Big-8 Management Board would vote to
create one. This is just another of your peculiar paranoid fantasies.

> So even with all of the spam sci.math receives, I'll remain here on
> sci.math. To me, the only good thing about the new group would be that
> those who like to call other posters "cranks" would likely go to the
> new group, leaving us free to discuss our ideas without the threat of
> being called "cranks."

Those who enjoy calling others "cranks" would naturally also stay on
sci.math.

--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)

"Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

Tonico

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 4:57:27 PM8/15/09
to

As usual you talk nonsense, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're a
crank: it could simply be ignorance or stupidity.

And it really would be very interesting, antropological and
psychologicalwise, to have a peek at some group used exclusively by
cranks and their deffensors. I guess that'd look like a bunch of
Middle East cuckoos from the desert trying to sell each other sweaters
and heaters.
My best wishes and I honestly hope it'll become a reality!

Regards
Tonio

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 7:35:34 PM8/15/09
to
On Aug 14, 9:33 pm, "M.M.M." <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 4:05 pm, Ken Quirici <kquir...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 6:04 pm, Gauss163 <gauss...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > > On Aug 14, 1:56 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Who all would like to have anewmathdiscussiongroup
> > > > sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> > > > be a moderatedgroupwith a platform or topic focus
> > > > similar to sci.math'splatforum?
>
> > > > If such agroupwas set up, who would be willing to
> > > > be the moderator?
>

> > > Far less work than moderation is to make a case to Musatov's ISPs
> > > to terminate his account for widespread prolonged abuse of sci.math.
> > > A thread has been created for this purpose. Please take a few moments
> > > to find some posts that clearly prove Musatov's abuse at quick glance
> > > and post links to this threadhttp://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/9fba42d0453ad6ef
>
> > What's to prevent him from spawning equally odious false
> > identities? Moderation will solve any such problems.
>
> NOTHING. THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THIS THAN FRANKLY YOU SEE.

I think I may actually now agree with your position that what is
odious is posts
and not posters (if you note down below Jack convinced me of this).

But if you check AP's threads on this front page you see ample
justification
for preventing any of his posts from appearing (altho, again, I think
we should have
an auxiliary group with discarded posts available for group discussion
and
decision) - they are either abusive of large numbers of professional
scientists, or
present speculations with no reasonable justification.

I for one would be delighted to come to sci.math and not, hopefully
scanning
an AP thread for meaningful new and interesting discourse and ideas,
discover instead self-aggrandizing (sp?) abuse of others and obvious
foolishness.

Let me point out that there are instances where AP presents outré
ideas
which could be defended by reasoned argument, and yet he never does
so - he does not have the mathematical or logical or scientific
abilities
or training for this. He should be reading the threads and posting
questions like most newbies. And despite having been here since 1991
(God, the years, the years) he's still a blatant newby (newbie?).

Eleaticus

unread,
Aug 15, 2009, 8:44:37 PM8/15/09
to
Musatov wrote:
I concede not my lack of conformity to lack of knowledge or
understanding. You concede to me non-conformity of cohesive logic. I
tell you the truth, I have said things I regret, be it not astill they
drive forward and good come from them for I am unable to change the
past but from it may come good. Musatov
8 And other fell into the good ground, *and grew, and brought forth
fruit a hundredfold.
Luke 8:8
I hunger, yet no one feeds me.

work than moderation is to make a case to Musatov's ISPs

his account for widespread prolonged abuse of sci.math.

been created for this purpose. Please take a few moments

posts that clearly prove Musatov's abuse at quick glance

links to this threadhttp://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/9fba42d0453ad6ef

prevent him from spawning equally odious false

Moderation will solve any such problems.

IS SO MUCH MORE TO THIS THAN FRANKLY YOU SEE

actually now agree with your position that what is

(if you note down below Jack convinced me of this).

AP's threads on this front page you see ample

of his posts from appearing (altho, again, I think

with discarded posts available for group discussion

are either abusive of large numbers of professional

speculations with no reasonable justification.

delighted to come to sci.math and not, hopefully

meaningful new and interesting discourse and ideas

self-aggrandizing (sp?) abuse of others and obvious

that there are instances where AP presents outré

defended by reasoned argument, and yet he never does

have the mathematical or logical or scientific

this. He should be reading the threads and posting

most newbies. And despite having been here since 1991

the years) he's still a blatant newby (newbie?).

Cliff B

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 12:08:46 AM8/16/09
to
William

Are you any closer to having an answer to your original question - is
a new group needed?

Did you have in mind setting up the group yourself if you could have
sufficient help from others as moderators?

An interesting question that was asked in this thread was whether
sci.math had terms of reference/ a statement of purpose. I don't
think the question got an answer - or else the answer is that there
are no TOR. My feeling is that the group's value is in providing
answers to questions about maths - that is, to genuine questioners,
not lazy students trying to get someone to do their homework for them.

Does this group presently have an 'owner'? I know that all google
groups do, but I don't know how usenet groups work.

There is an important debate about whether people who use this group
to repeatedly make baseless claims that they have made fundamental
discoveries in mathematics should be denied entry to a new group. My
own feeling is that the problem is not so much the 'cranks' but rather
that some people insist on having endless debates with them. On the
other hand, the latter group includes many talented mathematicians who
make a positive contribution to the group. They make the mistake of
trying to have a rational debate with irrational people. I would
have to reluctantly say that for any new group to work, it would be
necessary to exclude the cranks.

The answers in this thread provide a perfect illustration of the
problems that exist in the group as a whole.

On Aug 14, 3:56 pm, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group

> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would

> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus


> similar to sci.math's platforum?
>

> If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
> be the moderator?

adamk

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 1:02:28 AM8/16/09
to


I don't know who you are referring to. All I
wanna do is block people who post garbage like:


posting.http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=6815890&tstart=0

And people who refuse to use standard notation , and
expect all others to struggle to understand them, like
Dodge/Inverse 19. If you can and are willing to
explain yourself, welcome. If you want to live
in your own world, with your own notation and
math vocabulary, stay out: if you want others to
evaluate your work, then you should adapt to others,
not the other way around.

I agree, if the poster is willing to make an
effort to explain themselves clearly. It takes
a lot of time and effort in the best of conditions
to learn something new. If on top of that, you have
to struggle to undrstand their language and notation,
it becomes almost impossible. Out of courtesy to those
you expect to read your work, you should make an
effort to make yourself clear.

> That would be an
> opportunity for the theories to receive the proper
> critique and
> analysis they deserve. If there is a massive
> conglomeration of vulgar
> retorts, then those users will have the proper action
> taken against
> them.
>

I admit I am guilty of that. It is the only way I
know of responding to abusive spammers like musatov;
respond to his vulgarity with vulgarity of my own.
I see it as a matter of not letting someone be
abusive to me, and I need to take a stand.

> A moderated sci.math would be a formal forum for all
> mathematical
> inquiries and discussions. If the "crank" theories
> that we see have
> any truth value whatsoever, then under formal
> analysis they can be
> seen in the light which they deserve. If not, they
> can receive helpful
> advice from other subscribers instead of a verbal
> slaughtering. A
> reasonable moderator would not take action against a
> user simply for
> their ideas, but rather for their behavior.

Agree. Maybe a limit of 2-3 posts/day (other than
in helping to answer someone else's question)would be
nice, and poster would have to provide a reason to
do otherwise. It is hard to believe that one could
come up with more than 2-3 original and well thought-out and well-written ideas per day. This would help prevent people like musatov, who want to use this site to experiment, at all others' expense.

David Bernier

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 1:25:43 AM8/16/09
to
Cliff B wrote:
> William
>
> Are you any closer to having an answer to your original question - is
> a new group needed?
>
> Did you have in mind setting up the group yourself if you could have
> sufficient help from others as moderators?
>
> An interesting question that was asked in this thread was whether
> sci.math had terms of reference/ a statement of purpose. I don't
> think the question got an answer - or else the answer is that there
> are no TOR. My feeling is that the group's value is in providing
> answers to questions about maths - that is, to genuine questioners,
> not lazy students trying to get someone to do their homework for them.
>
> Does this group presently have an 'owner'? I know that all google
> groups do, but I don't know how usenet groups work.
>
> There is an important debate about whether people who use this group
> to repeatedly make baseless claims that they have made fundamental
> discoveries in mathematics should be denied entry to a new group. My
> own feeling is that the problem is not so much the 'cranks' but rather
> that some people insist on having endless debates with them. On the
> other hand, the latter group includes many talented mathematicians who
> make a positive contribution to the group. They make the mistake of
> trying to have a rational debate with irrational people. I would
> have to reluctantly say that for any new group to work, it would be
> necessary to exclude the cranks.

There could be a common tag-word system, a generalization of
"OT" for off-topic. So for anti-crank, a tag something like
NTCRNK . Those who do not wish to read anti-crank posts,
if those are labeled NTCRNK in the "Subject:" header,
could create a filter to kill-file any message with
NTCRNK in the subject: header.

Sensible people who want to respond to W. Muekenheim might
well be willing to add an NTCRNK tag. Or, the anti-Muck.
tag specifically for Mueckenheim could be NTMNHEIM.

Those who debate with anti-cantorians could add
a nCANT tag to a reply to an anti-cantorian.

If the tags are well-designed and adhered to, at least
to some extent, they could serve as keywords for
filtering on Subject: .

For advanced topics, some of the AMS designations of
fields could be offered as keywords that may be included.

This potential discussion could be done with the same
civility used in the RFC documents that led to
Networking standards under DARPAnet, Arpanet and
later on the Internet, and Web standards and protocols.

David

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 4:41:39 AM8/16/09
to
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009, Cliff B wrote:

> William
>
> Are you any closer to having an answer to your original question - is
> a new group needed?
>

Yes, this group is so bastardized, it needs relief.

> Did you have in mind setting up the group yourself if you could have
> sufficient help from others as moderators?
>

Yes, if others would do the moderating.

> An interesting question that was asked in this thread was whether
> sci.math had terms of reference/ a statement of purpose. I don't
> think the question got an answer - or else the answer is that there
> are no TOR. My feeling is that the group's value is in providing
> answers to questions about maths - that is, to genuine questioners,
> not lazy students trying to get someone to do their homework for them.
>

Do I remember some description of sci.math years ago when Google
had usenet groups search link? What ever happened to that search
facility? That link is now gone from google.com to be replaced
by other stuff and junk.

> Does this group presently have an 'owner'? I know that all google
> groups do, but I don't know how usenet groups work.
>
> There is an important debate about whether people who use this group
> to repeatedly make baseless claims that they have made fundamental
> discoveries in mathematics should be denied entry to a new group. My
> own feeling is that the problem is not so much the 'cranks' but rather
> that some people insist on having endless debates with them. On the
> other hand, the latter group includes many talented mathematicians who
> make a positive contribution to the group. They make the mistake of
> trying to have a rational debate with irrational people. I would
> have to reluctantly say that for any new group to work, it would be
> necessary to exclude the cranks.
>

It may be necessary to require a modicum of mathematical sense.
Seems if you let a crank present his supposition, than sooner
or later he will transgress into blither and be dismissed out.

> The answers in this thread provide a perfect illustration of the
> problems that exist in the group as a whole.
>

Either the moderators need to come to a consensus about cranks
and other mosquitoes or sci.math.mod will fly with variation
of moderating styles. The bulk of the vermin I'm sure, the
moderators will easily agree upon.

There is a person who monthly or so, posts a guide to sci.math
who could help composing a platform and Bart in a previous thread
showed good skill at stating a platform. If nothing is forth coming
regards a platform, I'll cobble one myself and use it for the
announcement of a new group.

Cliff B

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 6:10:12 AM8/16/09
to
Others have already put their hands up to be moderators I think.
However I'm happy to help in any way I can. I would suggest however
that the filtering be done by poster rather than by post. A great
deal of work involved if each post is to be checked.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 6:53:58 AM8/16/09
to

I do not believe Google groups allow killfiling, and I only
use Google to access groups (there are others - in fact
AP on occasion complains about the slowness of
Google). I would ask for any solution to be useable
on Google as well as other usenet access methods.
This does complexify things I guess.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 6:56:46 AM8/16/09
to
On Aug 16, 6:10 am, Cliff B <cliff_b...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Others have already put their hands up to be moderators I think.
> However I'm happy to help in any way I can.  I would suggest however
> that the filtering be done by poster rather than by post.  A great
> deal of work involved if each post is to be checked.
>

Would there be access to the moderators then other than by
posting? Suppose someone suddenly sees the light and wants
to contribute on a sensible basis? Or vice versa? Moles that
suddenly spring into action with ads for tennis sneakers?

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 6:57:00 AM8/16/09
to
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Cliff B wrote:

> Others have already put their hands up to be moderators I think.
> However I'm happy to help in any way I can. I would suggest however
> that the filtering be done by poster rather than by post. A great
> deal of work involved if each post is to be checked.
>

Many posts can be discarded just by the subject.
It's apparent that some posters need to be ousted.
One poster with more alias than corrupt congress has lobbists
will have to be summarly ousted, every time he dares to enter.

So far I've two or three who are willing to be moderators.
Are you also willing to moderate? Sci.math.research has
four rotating moderators.

There's two aspects to a platform.
One is what is on topic.

Discussions about math, elementary through advanced
and related topics such as math history, math education,
math texts and books (except solution manuals), mathematicians.

The other is about decor, which can be developed as the group forms.

Any comments about the platform I've just penned?

----

David Bernier

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 7:05:56 AM8/16/09
to

I thought about that after sending my reply.
Maybe sci.math has no charter, since it was created in
the early days of Usenet. A sci.math.mod
could have a charter, which is a plus
I think.

David

Cliff B

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 7:39:47 AM8/16/09
to

As a 'what can I post' list, I don't have any changes or additions to
suggest to it. I would add a 'what can't I post' category and this
would include advertising and off-topic subjects.

I'm no expert on newsgroups and I don't want to advocate any
particular system. However google groups has a couple of features
that could be useful. One is that you can head the page with a
preamble about the group, what is on-topic and off-topic etc. More
importantly, you can set the group up so that participation is by
subscription. New subscribers' posts are held for moderation for a
trial period, after which they can be accepted without moderation.
That feature could save a lot of work.

I'm happy to help moderate but I'm a maths hobbyist, not a
professional mathematician. So I can't apply expert judgement as to
whether someone is spouting rubbish or not, in an area of maths I'm
not familiar with (and that is a pretty wide area). On the other
hand, I'm in the eastern Australian time-zone, which may be an
advantage, and if non-experts do some of the moderating, it frees up
the experts to answer the (sensible) questions.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 8:17:12 AM8/16/09
to
This is about math4:
Road-block woops!
M.M.M. wrote:
> On Aug 15, 4:55 pm, "M.M.M." <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 4:26 pm, adamk <ad...@adamk.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > On Aug 15, 1:54 pm, "Mustav the wrong group"
> > > > <martys_a_fag...@mybottom.sac> wrote:
> > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Gh6kj23O4
> >
> > > > That's Funny! It looks like my old dog 'Griffey'...
> > > > 'Griffey, Jr.'...
> >
> > > > She was a Terrier Poodle, same color. She was skinny
> > > > like that too,
> > > > when she was
> > > > a pup! So cute...
> >
> > >   Then you, Griff and your mom had a threesome.
> >
> > >   It may be in bad taste to say it, but, hey,
> > >   free speech and all. Also, I am conducting
> > >   sociological research, so I will use you as
> > >   a subject to see how you react, whether you
> > >   like it or not. This is the same thing you are
> > >  doing here, so it is fair game, wether you like
> > >  it or not. I don't have any say on whether I
> > >  want to go along with your project, so you don't
> > >  have any say on my project.
> >
> > > > Regarding my theory of primes, it's actually closer
> > > > to this:
> > > >I give it to my mom and my dog every day, 2n times,
> >
> > >  and then I wonder if 2n is prime.
> >
> > > > Mary Michelle Fuckatov
> >
> >    <My mother is Mary Margaret Musatov.>Fawver/Christie

> >
> > > > \/ /    \ \/ /    \ \/ /    \ \/ /    \ \/ /    \ \/
> > > > / /  \ \/ /- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > let no word harm him- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> These games you play with words are sick.
>
> Your faith does not tell you to protect your wisdom with lies.
>
> The whole process you have endowed is more akin to hazing than
> emancipation.
>
> I beseech you.
>
> I implore you.
>
> Would your creator let it be to me had he not you in mind?

Oh and once more, before If you will never forget these words. My
cousin is named Christie Michelle Schultz. Blaspheme her name and you
will die.


M.M.M.

M.M.M.

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 8:19:32 AM8/16/09
to
Slap!

The Sortov Institute

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 8:26:54 AM8/16/09
to
"William Elliot" <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote in message
news:2009081322...@agora.rdrop.com...

> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
> similar to sci.math's platforum?
>
> If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
> be the moderator?

I would be happy to do some of the work, I have quite a bit of time
available, but if anybody wants an academia-censored group like
sci.math.research, count me out.

Larry


Bart Goddard

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 8:52:15 AM8/16/09
to
William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote in news:20090815221350.B51013
@agora.rdrop.com:

> There is a person who monthly or so, posts a guide to sci.math
> who could help composing a platform and Bart in a previous thread
> showed good skill at stating a platform. If nothing is forth coming
> regards a platform, I'll cobble one myself and use it for the
> announcement of a new group.

I'm in the middle of Summer session finals just now, but I've
been working on two documents, a platform and a moderation
policy, which I'll post and let y'all have at. I'll try to have
them up before Friday, August 21.

B.

--
Cheerfully resisting change since 1959.

Penny Hassett

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 11:28:02 AM8/16/09
to

I'm for a moderated group and although I really, really don't want to
devote the time to it I reluctantly offer to be a co-moderator if there
are sufficient volunteers to ease the burden and I don't disagree too
much with the policy.

I suspect it might become easier with time as the people who habitually
submit posts that would be censored by the moderators will eventually
stop trying.

For my part, I wouldn't ban Plutonium, and I wouldn't ban JSH; the
latter has the courtesy to alert everyone when he starts a thread. Herc
is marginal and Musatov is almost a definite. I would also censor all
abusive replies to the above and any other messages.

I suspect that if we were to say any message on here has to be
mathematical in nature then it would often be too difficult to decide.
My desired outcome would be that the newsgroup is somewhere where
strangers feel comfortable dropping in. I looked up my earlier postings
while writing this one and came up with
<http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/bb84729b5abb3a45/6eb2984225776613?hl=en&q=wallpaper+group:sci.math#6eb2984225776613>.
The newsgroup was a lot more pleasant place back then.

Bart Goddard

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 1:31:17 PM8/16/09
to
Penny Hassett <Penny_...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:h698ic$34v$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

> For my part, I wouldn't ban Plutonium, and I wouldn't ban JSH; the
>

Right. I think it's a fundamental point that we'd reject posts,
not people. Any butthead who follows the guidelines gets
approved.

hdbanannah

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 2:48:26 PM8/16/09
to
On Aug 16, 6:57 am, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:

> Discussions about math, elementary through advanced
> and related topics such as math history, math education,
> math texts and books (except solution manuals), mathematicians.
>
> The other is about decor, which can be developed as the group forms.
>
> Any comments about the platform I've just penned?

No solution manuals, huh? All the poor high school and college kids
can't come here for help anymore I guess, since that's about the
extent of their mathematical interests.

Marc Mertens

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 3:49:56 PM8/16/09
to
Penny Hassett wrote:

I would welcome a moderated newsgroup. Even with kill files the amount of
trolling on this newsgroup is too high. I'm curious however who would post
on this new newsgroup. I noticed for example that each time I posted a
question, I got a very helpfull reply from Davic C. Ullrich and I'm sure
there are many people like him. I certainely will miss them if they decide
not to read/post on this new newsgroup. For moderator, I just do
mathematics in my free time, and I have only a little time free to help
moderating. Does someone know how much messages are typically posted before
moderation on a moderated newsgroup?

Marc Mertens

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 4:22:58 PM8/16/09
to

Not sure I follow that. I personally am not at all familiar with your
posts, so you were not included directly in any statement I made,
especially anything negative about posters or posts.

However, I see a glimmer of agreement between us possibly
in that I have no objections (not that it matters one way or another)
to people posting non-standard ideas per se. I object to an
offensively
demeaning and self-aggrandizing tone and lack of what you
can sort of tell is a reasonable effort at reason (along with
new out-of-the-box thinking). Hope that makes sense. Also
there's a very fine line here I'm trying to stay on the right
side of in terms of allowing maximum o-o-t-b thinking.

hdbanannah

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 5:11:48 PM8/16/09
to
> <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/bb8472...>.

>
> > The newsgroup was a lot more pleasant place back then.
>
> I would welcome a moderated newsgroup. Even with kill files the amount of
> trolling on this newsgroup is too high. I'm curious however who would post
> on this new newsgroup. I noticed for example that each time I posted a
> question, I got a very helpfull reply from Davic C. Ullrich and I'm sure
> there are many people like him. I certainely will miss them if they decide
> not to read/post on this new newsgroup. For moderator, I just do
> mathematics in my free time, and I have only a little time free to help
> moderating. Does someone know how much messages are typically posted before
> moderation on a moderated newsgroup?
>
> Marc Mertens

Don't volunteer to mod if you don't have the time. A good moderator
should be dependable to contribute a significant amount of their time
to help.

Ken Quirici

unread,
Aug 16, 2009, 7:41:43 PM8/16/09
to
On Aug 16, 11:28 am, Penny Hassett <Penny_Hass...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Look at the abuse peppering AP's Freeman Dyson dishing. Is that
appropriate? FD can be criticized in a rational intelligent manner.
That kind of post lowers the level of discourse in this group and
since 1991, it's becoming burdensome.

> I suspect that if we were to say any message on here has to be
> mathematical in nature then it would often be too difficult to decide.
> My desired outcome would be that the newsgroup is somewhere where
> strangers feel comfortable dropping in. I looked up my earlier postings
> while writing this one and came up with

> <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/bb8472...>.

rabbits77

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 12:18:55 AM8/17/09
to
William Elliot wrote:
> Who all would like to have a new math discussion group
> sci.math.moderatered or sci.math.mod that would
> be a moderated group with a platform or topic focus
> similar to sci.math's platforum?
>
> If such a group was set up, who would be willing to
> be the moderator?
I believe there is auto-moderating software out there.
Such software can be configured to, say, take all
messages posted to sci.math and then based on various
filters repost the approved messages to something like
sci.math.moderated.
Googling on this topic and I find that
an example of such a "robot moderator" is STUMP.
http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/

Personally, I am not sure if that is worth it since
most of the crap posted to sci.math are from
a small handful of well known crazies that can be
killfiled in a sraightforward way.

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 5:42:49 AM8/17/09
to
> I would welcome a moderated newsgroup. Even with kill files the amount of
> trolling on this newsgroup is too high. I'm curious however who would post
> on this new newsgroup. I noticed for example that each time I posted a
> question, I got a very helpful reply from Davic C. Ullrich and I'm sure

> there are many people like him. I certainely will miss them if they decide
> not to read/post on this new newsgroup. For moderator, I just do
> mathematics in my free time, and I have only a little time free to help
> moderating. Does someone know how much messages are typically posted before
> moderation on a moderated newsgroup?
>
Hopefully the professors would accept an invitation to participate in
sci.math.mod. Yes, public notices to sci.math and other newsgroups,
of sci.math.mod should be posted, repeatedly.

> Marc Mertens
>

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 5:54:17 AM8/17/09
to
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Penny Hassett wrote:
> William Elliot wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Cliff B wrote:
>>
>> So far I've two or three who are willing to be moderators.
>> Are you also willing to moderate? Sci.math.research has
>> four rotating moderators.
>>
>> There's two aspects to a platform.
>> One is what is on topic.
>>
>> Discussions about math, elementary through advanced
>> and related topics such as math history, math education,
>> math texts and books (except solution manuals), mathematicians.
>>
>> The other is about decor, which can be developed as the group forms.
>>
>> Any comments about the platform I've just penned?
>
> I'm for a moderated group and although I really, really don't want to
> devote the time to it I reluctantly offer to be a co-moderator if there
> are sufficient volunteers to ease the burden and I don't disagree too
> much with the policy.

It's appearing there will be sufficient comoderators. Would you
please contact me by email, so I can add you to a list of prospective
moderators?

> I suspect it might become easier with time as the people who habitually
> submit posts that would be censored by the moderators will eventually stop
> trying.
>
> For my part, I wouldn't ban Plutonium, and I wouldn't ban JSH; the
> latter has the courtesy to alert everyone when he starts a thread. Herc
> is marginal and Musatov is almost a definite. I would also censor all
> abusive replies to the above and any other messages.

> I suspect that if we were to say any message on here has to be mathematical
> in nature then it would often be too difficult to decide. My desired outcome
> would be that the newsgroup is somewhere where strangers feel comfortable
> dropping in. I looked up my earlier postings while writing this one and came
> up with

> <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/bb84729b5abb3a45/6eb2984225776613?hl=en&q=wallpaper+group:sci.math#6eb2984225776613>.
> The newsgroup was a lot more pleasant place back then.
>

Indeed it was, in no need of moderating.

hdbanannah

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 6:03:34 AM8/17/09
to
> > <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/bb8472...>.

> > The newsgroup was a lot more pleasant place back then.
>
> Indeed it was, in no need of moderating.

Who's on the mod list?

William Elliot

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 6:11:09 AM8/17/09
to
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Cliff B wrote:

> On Aug 16, 8:57�pm, William Elliot <ma...@rdrop.remove.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Cliff B wrote:

>> Discussions about math, elementary through advanced
>> and related topics such as math history, math education,
>> math texts and books (except solution manuals), mathematicians.
>>
>> The other is about decor, which can be developed as the group forms.
>>
>> Any comments about the platform I've just penned?
>

> As a 'what can I post' list, I don't have any changes or additions to
> suggest to it. I would add a 'what can't I post' category and this
> would include advertising and off-topic subjects.
>
> I'm no expert on newsgroups and I don't want to advocate any
> particular system. However google groups has a couple of features
> that could be useful. One is that you can head the page with a
> preamble about the group, what is on-topic and off-topic etc. More
> importantly, you can set the group up so that participation is by
> subscription. New subscribers' posts are held for moderation for a
> trial period, after which they can be accepted without moderation.
> That feature could save a lot of work.
>

Currently a monthly post is appearing that describes sci.math.
Similar could be done with sci.math.mod, perhaps on a weekly
basis.

> I'm happy to help moderate but I'm a maths hobbyist, not a
> professional mathematician. So I can't apply expert judgement as to
> whether someone is spouting rubbish or not, in an area of maths I'm
> not familiar with (and that is a pretty wide area). On the other
> hand, I'm in the eastern Australian time-zone, which may be an
> advantage, and if non-experts do some of the moderating, it frees up
> the experts to answer the (sensible) questions.
>

I also am a Hobbist who has learned a great deal from sci.math.
I now have a meg of ascii text mathematics notes, definitions,
theorems and proofs.

Thank you for your offer, I think I now have a quorum of four.
Would you please email me so I may include you in a list of
prospective moderators.

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 6:49:47 AM8/17/09
to
Bart Goddard wrote:
> Penny Hassett <Penny_...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:h698ic$34v$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> For my part, I wouldn't ban Plutonium, and I wouldn't ban JSH; the
>>
>
> Right. I think it's a fundamental point that we'd reject posts,
> not people. Any butthead who follows the guidelines gets
> approved.

Imho, not even weird ideas should be rejected.

Perhaps a better idea is to give people a quotum, say, 20 posts per day
for everyone, 3 posts per day for 'people with alternative viewpoints'.

At least there should remain room for threads like the one with Tim
Golden about polynomials, or else it would become a very boring group.

Other advantage: it allows robo-moderation (i.e. no delays).

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 6:57:40 AM8/17/09
to
David Bernier wrote:

> There could be a common tag-word system, a generalization of
> "OT" for off-topic. So for anti-crank, a tag something like
> NTCRNK . Those who do not wish to read anti-crank posts,
> if those are labeled NTCRNK in the "Subject:" header,
> could create a filter to kill-file any message with
> NTCRNK in the subject: header.
>
> Sensible people who want to respond to W. Muekenheim might
> well be willing to add an NTCRNK tag. Or, the anti-Muck.
> tag specifically for Mueckenheim could be NTMNHEIM.
>
> Those who debate with anti-cantorians could add
> a nCANT tag to a reply to an anti-cantorian.
>
> If the tags are well-designed and adhered to, at least
> to some extent, they could serve as keywords for
> filtering on Subject: .

A very good idea!
Could we make it 'AC' instead of 'NTCRNK'?
Shorter, easier to remember, more in line with the already widely known
[OT] tag, etc.

Also: for the purpose of filters, wouldn't it be better to stick to one
tag, rather than inventing a new tag for every person or subject?

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

Herman Jurjus

unread,
Aug 17, 2009, 7:14:47 AM8/17/09
to
adamk wrote:
> If you want to live
> in your own world, with your own notation and
> math vocabulary, stay out

FYI, this is precisely the reason why sci.math.moderated is not a good
idea: too large differences in what people want to filter out.

To anyone who thinks moderation will be a good thing for this ng, think
of it this way:

You, as a poster, will be completely at the moderator's mercy, for each
and every single post, and you can only hope that he or she is not a fool.
Now remember the posts from the past, and then ask yourself how many
sci.math posters other than yourself can you trust to be always fair and
to never behave like a pedantic blockhead?

Again: you'll be at the -complete- mercy of 'some sci.math regular'.
Happy thought?

--
Cheers,
Herman Jurjus

It is loading more messages.
0 new messages