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Sir Six  
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 More options Apr 8 1990, 10:01 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math, rec.puzzles
Followup-To: sci.math
From: ph600...@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Sir Six)
Date: 8 Apr 90 17:05:36 GMT
Local: Sun, Apr 8 1990 1:05 pm
Subject: Paper puzzle

     Given one rectangular sheet of paper of dimensions 8.5"x11.0",
I want to cut out two identical squares that are as large as
possible.  (Obiously, they cannot overlap.  Also, no gluing, taping,
etc. is allowed.)  Can I do better than 5.5"?  If not, can you prove
it?  If so, what is the best I can do, and how?

Sir Six


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Randolph James Finder  
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 More options Apr 9 1990, 4:17 pm
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles, sci.math
From: rf...@andrew.cmu.edu (Randolph James Finder)
Date: 9 Apr 90 12:46:57 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 9 1990 8:46 am
Subject: Re: Paper puzzle
Just off the top of my head 5.5" is not optimal. You can do at least 7
2/3 " by putting two squares of that size next to each other and
turning them so that the diagonals of each square run H & V.

Randolph Finder
rf...@andrew.cmu.edu

"And yet I would give it all up to be human" - Lt. Cmdr Data


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Keith Miyake  
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 More options Apr 9 1990, 10:00 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
Followup-To: sci.math
From: miy...@cs.purdue.EDU (Keith Miyake)
Date: 9 Apr 90 19:00:01 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 9 1990 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: Paper puzzle

In article <9...@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> ph600...@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Sir Six) writes:

>     Given one rectangular sheet of paper of dimensions 8.5"x11.0",
>I want to cut out two identical squares that are as large as
>possible.  (Obiously, they cannot overlap.  Also, no gluing, taping,
>etc. is allowed.)  Can I do better than 5.5"?  If not, can you prove
>it?  If so, what is the best I can do, and how?

>Sir Six

I believe that 5.5" is the maximum dimension for the squares.  Consider
the center point of the paper.  Every solution to the problem (two identical
squares) can be made to be symmetric about that point.

But by observation with a 5.5" square, the only suitable solution occurs when
the square is parallel to the paper, so a larger square will not work.

Keith
--
ARPA:   miy...@cs.purdue.edu
UUCP:   ...!{decwrl,gatech,ucbvax}!purdue!miyake


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Laszlo Csirmaz  
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 More options Apr 10 1990, 12:31 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: csir...@porthos.rutgers.edu (Laszlo Csirmaz)
Date: 9 Apr 90 21:55:42 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 9 1990 5:55 pm
Subject: Re: Paper puzzle

In article <9...@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> ph600...@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Sir Six) writes:
>      Given one rectangular sheet of paper of dimensions 8.5"x11.0",
> I want to cut out two identical squares that are as large as
> possible.  (Obiously, they cannot overlap.  Also, no gluing, taping,
> etc. is allowed.)  Can I do better than 5.5"?  If not, can you prove
> it?  If so, what is the best I can do, and how?

> Sir Six

Let the paper be ABCD (AB < BC), draw lines at 45 degree from A and C
these intersect the median of the paper parallel to AB at E and F (see
the fig.)
            ^                          X|
            |                           |\
            |                           | \<-separator line
            B-----+-----C               |  \
            |     |/   /|               |   \  E
            |    E/   / |               |    \/
            |    /|  /  |               |... /\
            |   / | /   |               |   /. \
            |  /  |/    |               |  / .  \
            | /   /F    |               | /  .   \
            |/   /|     |               |/   .    \Y
            A-----+-----D               A----------------------

If two squares are cut from the paper, there is a line which separates
them. W.l.o.g we may assume that this line has a common point with the
ray AB starting at A. (If it is parallel to AB, then at least on part
is too small to have a square of size 5,5".) This means that the line
must have a common point either with segment AE or with segment CF.
Suppose again that this is AE. In this case one of the squares lies
entirely inside the rectangular triangle AXY. Now it is easy to check
that the biggest square inside a rectangular triangle is the one with
two sides at the rectangular corner (shown by dots), thus its diagonal
is part of AE, therefore has length < AE. Consequently the side of the
square cannot be > 5.5", QED.

The same idea can be used to prove that if the unit square contains
two disjoint squares with sides a and b, then a+b<=1.

Problem: Which is the smallest square into which all the squares with
sides 1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ... can be packed without overlapping?

Laci Csirmaz

csir...@cs.rutgers.edu


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John Sahr  
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 More options Apr 10 1990, 2:02 pm
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles, sci.math
From: jo...@calvin.spp.cornell.edu (John Sahr)
Date: 10 Apr 90 15:44:41 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 10 1990 11:44 am
Subject: Re: Paper puzzle
In article <Aa88F1m00Ws9Q3t...@andrew.cmu.edu> rf...@andrew.cmu.edu (Randolph James Finder) writes:

>Just off the top of my head 5.5" is not optimal. You can do at least 7
>2/3 " by putting two squares of that size next to each other and
>turning them so that the diagonals of each square run H & V.

>Randolph Finder
>rf...@andrew.cmu.edu

>"And yet I would give it all up to be human" - Lt. Cmdr Data

This would be a wondrous solution indeed.

The area of an 8.5x11 piece of paper is 93.5;

The area of 2  7 2/3 sided squares is 117 5/9.

I believe that the original question is equivalent to "what is the
largest square that will fit into a trapzeoid constructed by drawing a
(straight) line through the center of an 8.5x11 rectangle."  Among
other limits, such a square certainly cannot have a side longer than
hypot(5.5, 4.25), which is 7.10633...

--
John Sahr,                   | Electrical Engineering - Space Plasma Physics
jo...@alfven.spp.cornell.edu | Cornell University,         Ithaca, NY  14853


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Discussion subject changed to "Sign of a permutation" by john baez
john baez  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 7:18 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: b...@x.ucr.edu (john baez)
Date: 11 Apr 90 02:46:12 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 10 1990 10:46 pm
Subject: Sign of a permutation

Help!!!  I'd like a short proof if possible that the
sign of a permutation is really well-defined, i.e.,
that any element which is a product of an even number of
interchanges is not the product of an odd number.

Please DON'T give me a proof that says "just take
the determinant of the matrix of zeros and ones representing
the permutation" unless you have a definition of the
determinant that doesn't depend on the sign of a
permutation being well-defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I.e., no circular arguments please.

And can you do it by tomorrow morning????

No, this is not a homework problem!!!!!!!!
I'M TEACHING THE COURSE.


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paul pedersen  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 9:48 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: peder...@acf4.NYU.EDU (paul pedersen)
Date: 11 Apr 90 13:48:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation

The question was:  how do you demonstrate that the sign of a permutation
is well-defined?  This is no problem.  You use the polynomial:

   p(x_1,...,x_n) = \prod_{i<j} (x_i - x_j).

S_n acts on  p  by permuting the variables.  Then p^(sigma) = +- p.
For any transposition  sigma = (rs),

   p^(sigma)(x_1,...,x_r,...,x_s,...,x_n) = p(x_1,...,x_s,...,x_r,...,x_s(n))
                                          = - p(x_1,...,x_n).

Therefore, tau \in S_n cannot have representations as both an even and
an odd number of transpostions, for in the first case the action would
change the sign of p, and in the second case it would not.  We require
that p neq -p, which follows because p is not identically zero, as can
be seen by specializing the variables appropriately, say x_i = i.

What is happening here is that we define a mechanism for specifying
the sign of each term of a determinant quite independently of any
discussion of permutations.  If you consider the Vandermonde matrix

   [  1         1         ... 1         ]
   [  x_1       x_2       ... x_n       ]
   [  x_1^2     x_2^2     ... x_n^2     ]  ,
   [       .....................        ]
   [  x_1^{n-1} x_2^{n-1} ... x_n^{n-1} ]

then each possible term of its determinant is uniquely determined by the
vector (e_1,...,e_n) of exponents of x_1,...,x_n which it entails.  Each
term x_1^{e_1}...x_n^{e_n} for 0 <= e_i <= n-1 also appears in  p, however.
Use the sign appearing in  p  as the sign for the term in the determinant.
This makes  p  equal to the Vandermonde determinant, and everything else
works out from then on.

...Paul Pedersen


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Chris Long  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 10:00 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: cl...@topaz.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Date: 11 Apr 90 08:39:46 GMT
Local: Wed, Apr 11 1990 4:39 am
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation

In article <5...@ucrmath.UCR.EDU>, John Baez writes:
> Help!!!  I'd like a short proof if possible that the
> sign of a permutation is really well-defined, i.e.,
> that any element which is a product of an even number of
> interchanges is not the product of an odd number.

The following (due to Hans Liebeck) is my favorite proof of this
result.

If a permutation f is the product of both an odd and an even number
of transpositions then we may write the identity e as the product
of an odd number of transpositions.  Assume WLOG
e = (x_1 y_1) * ... * (x_n y_n) with 1 =< x_i < y_i, where n is odd.
Next, replace (x_i y_i) with (1 x_i)(1 y_i)(1 x_i) if x_i > 1.  We
now have that e = (1 z_1) * ... * (1 z_m) with m odd and z_i>1 for
all i.  This gives a contradiction, since each symbol (1 k) with k>1
must appear an even number of times, and m is odd.

Q.E.D.
--
Chris Long, 272 Hamilton St. Apt. 1, New Brunswick NJ  08901  (201) 846-5569

"In a study of schoolboys, an educator discovered a correlation between size
 of feet and quality of handwriting.  The boys with the larger feet were,
 on the average, older."        Wallis & Roberts, _The Nature of Statistics_


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Dean Hickerson  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 11:56 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: H...@psuvm.psu.edu (Dean Hickerson)
Date: 11 Apr 90 15:56:57 GMT
Local: Wed, Apr 11 1990 11:56 am
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation
In article <Apr.11.04.39.43.1990.20...@topaz.rutgers.edu>,
cl...@topaz.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) says:

>If a permutation f is the product of both an odd and an even number
>of transpositions then we may write the identity e as the product
>of an odd number of transpositions.  Assume WLOG
>e = (x_1 y_1) * ... * (x_n y_n) with 1 =< x_i < y_i, where n is odd.
>Next, replace (x_i y_i) with (1 x_i)(1 y_i)(1 x_i) if x_i > 1.  We
>now have that e = (1 z_1) * ... * (1 z_m) with m odd and z_i>1 for
>all i.  This gives a contradiction, since each symbol (1 k) with k>1
>must appear an even number of times, and m is odd.

This doesn't work.  For example,
        e = (1 2) (1 3) (1 2) (1 3) (1 2) (1 3)
but (1 2) appears an odd number of times.
-------
Dean Hickerson,  Dept. of Math., Penn State Univ., University Park, PA 16802
h...@psuvm.psu.edu

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H. Enderton  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 11:58 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: h...@sonia.math.ucla.edu (H. Enderton)
Date: 11 Apr 90 15:58:16 GMT
Local: Wed, Apr 11 1990 11:58 am
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation

In article <5...@ucrmath.UCR.EDU> b...@x.UUCP (john baez) writes:
>Help!!!  I'd like a short proof if possible that the
>sign of a permutation is really well-defined, i.e., ....

Let's assume we are talking about a permutation of 1,2,...,n, so that
we can describe the permutation by a sequence, e.g. (5,1,3,2,4).
Define an _inversion_ to be a place where a larger number in the
sequence precedes a smaller one.  The above example has 5 inversions (5
precedes four smaller numbers; 3 precedes one).  Define the parity of
the permutation to be the parity of the number of inversions.

Lemma:  Any transposition (i.e., interchange) reverses the parity of
the permutation.

Corollary:  Any permutation that consists of an odd number of
transpositions is odd, i.e., has an odd number of inversions.
Similarly for even.

That does the job.


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William F. Hammond  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 12:04 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: wf...@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond)
Date: 11 Apr 90 16:04:27 GMT
Local: Wed, Apr 11 1990 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation

In article <5...@ucrmath.UCR.EDU> b...@x.UUCP (john baez) writes:

>Help!!!  I'd like a short proof if possible that the
>sign of a permutation is really well-defined, i.e.,
>that any element which is a product of an even number of
>interchanges is not the product of an odd number.
> . . .
>And can you do it by tomorrow morning????

>No, this is not a homework problem!!!!!!!!
>I'M TEACHING THE COURSE.

For a permutation in S_n define its sign to be 1 or -1 according to
what effect that permutation has on the polynomial

          product for 1 <= i < j <=n  of (x_i - x_j)

It is then obvious that the sign defined this way is a character, i.e.,
a homomorphism from  S_n  to the multiplicative group {1, -1}, that
assigns the value -1 to any transposition and, therefore, "counts mod 2"
the number of transpositions in any factorization of a permutation.
                                  -- Bill


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Mark Steinberger  
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 More options Apr 11 1990, 2:21 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: ms...@leah.Albany.Edu (Mark Steinberger)
Date: 11 Apr 90 18:21:23 GMT
Local: Wed, Apr 11 1990 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Sign of a permutation
In article <2...@leah.Albany.Edu> wf...@leah.albany.edu.UUCP (William F. Hammond) writes: