sci.materials Google Group

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-07T22:32:16Z

That's interesting. A similar process for the wine industry
has become controversial in Europe. Using membrane filtration
to extract water from low-grade grape juice or wine concentrates
the flavor, but some wine fans seem to think this is cheating or
somehow violates the wine-making tradition.

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-07T12:11:07Z

Yes jon, I did read the wiki.
You say;
" a.. To match the combustion characteristics of gasoline, the utilization
of butanol fuel as a substitute for gasoline requires fuel-flow increases
(though butanol has only slightly less energy than gasoline, so the
fuel-flow increase required is only minimal, maybe 10%, compared to 40% for

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-07T03:36:55Z

Ethanol is frequently distilled using something like an osmotic
membrane:
[link]
I believe its much more efficient than the vaporization process. There
was some news about a small home ethanol plant that fermented sugar and
distilled the product for motor fuel use. It used the membrane method.

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-07T01:59:31Z

amdx wrote:
I personally couldn't tell you but before long DuPont and BP will be able
to, as they are building the first butanol as motor fuel plant in the UK.
It should be online soon.
DuPont claims to have some enhanced process AIUI that overcomes some
traditional difficulties brewing the stuff (and DuPont has a good record).

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-07T01:41:40Z

Looks good, although I don't see anything to do with distillation.
Ah, good point. But how much power is spent doing that, and does it compare
at all to 99% H2O? It sure takes a lot of energy to evaporate water.
Tim

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T22:39:29Z

You gotta read them for it to mean anything? ;)

Selective etch of SiO2 over SiCr

2008-08-06T22:02:55Z

Hi,
Does anyone know of a good selective etch (either dry or wet) that
etches SiO2 (or SiNx) but stops on SiCr (or other thin film resistor
materials such as WSi2)? Will BOE work?
thanks
Erji

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T21:53:38Z

Do you mean the third link in my original post?
Mike

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T19:56:23Z

Easily dealt with by modern ECUs.
Ethanol certainly so. Butanol is benign IIRC.
Never heard of that one.
Requires specific engine redesign, ideally turbos and very enhanced ECUs. E.g.
Saab Bio-Power models.
Graham

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T19:39:38Z

When I was looking up on Ethonal I ran across it and I thought the same. But
IIRC there was one sticking point for it that make it less viable than
Ethanol.
Potential problems with the use of butanol fuel
The potential problems with the use of butanol are similar to those of
ethanol:[citation needed]

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T19:13:15Z

Dear legg:
...
It has a much lower solubility than ethanol, and is close to that of
gasoline itself.
Its health rating on MSDS shows it being less hazardous than reagent
grade ethanol, and less hazardous than gasoline (with or without
MTBE).
What hazard did you have in mind?
David A. Smith

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T18:56:57Z

Yes, that's my understanding also.
So even if ethanol takes even more energy to distill, is there some
equalization
of costs because ethanol must be trucked and Butanol doesn't?
Mike

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T18:19:01Z

Doesn't it's solubility in water represent a signifigantly greater
health and safety issue?
RL

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T17:01:58Z

amdx wrote:
Butanol doesn't have that problem AIUI.
Graham

Re: Why not Butanol?

2008-08-06T17:00:58Z

amdx wrote:
So have I. For some time indeed.
Ask DuPont. Together with BP and British Sugar they are building a pilot butanol plant right
now.
Try googling various of those terms at google.co.uk and request uk specific results in the tick
box.
Graham