Google Groups Home
Help | Sign in
The nature of uncomputability
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  4 messages - Collapse all
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
djr...@bath.ac.uk  
View profile
 More options Aug 6, 6:08 pm
Newsgroups: sci.logic
From: djr...@bath.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 6 2008 6:08 pm
Subject: The nature of uncomputability
I have read a bit about second order arithmetic and increasing
complexity, and how some sets of numbers are uncomputable (e.g. the
set of numbers corresponding to Chaitin's constant). Does the notion
of an uncomputable set extend any higher, i.e. to sets of sets of
numbers (third order arithmetic)?

    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
djr...@bath.ac.uk  
View profile
 More options Aug 7, 7:33 am
Newsgroups: sci.logic
From: djr...@bath.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 04:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Aug 7 2008 7:33 am
Subject: Re: The nature of uncomputability
On Aug 6, 11:08 pm, djr...@bath.ac.uk wrote:

> I have read a bit about second order arithmetic and increasing
> complexity, and how some sets of numbers are uncomputable (e.g. the
> set of numbers corresponding to Chaitin's constant). Does the notion
> of an uncomputable set extend any higher, i.e. to sets of sets of
> numbers (third order arithmetic)?

Actually, I guess I mean "complexity" rather than "uncomputability".
No computer program can rattle off one by one the elements of an
uncountable set!

[Also, "number" means "natural number", naturally.]


    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Baudouin Le Charlier  
View profile
 More options Aug 9, 5:09 am
Newsgroups: sci.logic
From: Baudouin Le Charlier <baudouin.lecharl...@uclouvain.be>
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 02:09:36 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Aug 9 2008 5:09 am
Subject: Re: The nature of uncomputability
On 7 août, 00:08, djr...@bath.ac.uk wrote:

> I have read a bit about second order arithmetic and increasing
> complexity, and how some sets of numbers are uncomputable (e.g. the
> set of numbers corresponding to Chaitin's constant). Does the notion
> of an uncomputable set extend any higher, i.e. to sets of sets of
> numbers (third order arithmetic)?

Computable means: there is an algorithm (a Turing machine) to compute
it. For instance, le real number pi is computable because there is an
algorithm that 'lists' all its digits. It will never stops but we can
go on until we reach any desired precision. Most reals are not
computable in this sense however since the set of Turing machines is
countable.

Baudouin


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
ju...@diegidio.name  
View profile
 More options Aug 9, 5:21 am
Newsgroups: sci.logic
From: ju...@diegidio.name
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 02:21:43 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Aug 9 2008 5:21 am
Subject: Re: The nature of uncomputability
On 6 Aug, 23:08, djr...@bath.ac.uk wrote:

> I have read a bit about second order arithmetic and increasing
> complexity, and how some sets of numbers are uncomputable (e.g. the
> set of numbers corresponding to Chaitin's constant). Does the notion
> of an uncomputable set extend any higher, i.e. to sets of sets of
> numbers (third order arithmetic)?

You might be interested in this article, which I have googled anyway:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-higher-order/#4

"We have seen that, although the set V¹ of valid formulas of first-
order logic is computably enumerable, the corresponding set V² for
second-order logic (with the standard semantics) is vastly more
complex.   This phenomenon does not continue into the higher orders."

-LV


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
End of messages
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2008 Google