Re: Niacin and/or Inositol Hexanicotinate for Cholesterol control?
Michael C Price
news:3533681.2...@192.168.1.1...
> I'm trying trying to lower LDL Cholesterol and have low HDL2C and small
> particle LDL which I'd need to increase in size. I'd like to both
increase
> my HDL2C (as well as total HDL) and increase my LDL particl size (peak).
> Lp(A) was low which is good and fibrinogen was in the normal range but I'm
> trying to lower it to low normal. C-Reactive Protein was low (good) but
> homocysteine was 17.5. I haven't checked APO B or E yet but blood sugar
is
> good. I've lowered homocysteine from 17.5 to 9 (and dropping) over the
> past 4 weeks and increased HDL from 31 to 49. Also lost 17 lbs over the
> past 2 months and started brisk walking with a goal of increasing to
> running 5 miles/day.
>
> I've read that niacin can increase homocysteine and negatively affect
blood
> sugar while increasing HDL, HDL2C, decreasing LDL, shifts small particle
> LDL to larger LDL particles, and lowers fibrinogen.
>
> I've started on 2 Grams/day of Niacin (to replace 10 mg Lipitor) and was
> wondering if there is any advantage to using Niacin or flush free Niacin
> (Inositol Hexanicotinate)?
Inositol Hexanicotinate is generally reckoned to be less toxic
than other forms of niacin. Google some of the threads in this
newsgroup for more details and other strategies.
> Perhaps I should be using both?
>
> Homocysteine was 17.5 on 2400 mcg folic acid, 25 mg B2, 125 mg B6, 1000
mcg
> B12, and 500 mg of TMG. I increased to 5000 mcg folic acid, 125 mg B2, 500
> mg B6 (until it comes down then will do about 300 mg) 50 mg P-5-P, 10,000
> mcg B12, and 6 G TMG/day. It took 4 weeks to lower homocysteine from 17.5
> to 10.5 (after two weeks) to 9.0 (after 4 weeks). My target for
> homocysteine is less than 6 and hopefully niacin won't affect my progress.
>
> I had a heart attack two months ago and had 4 stints placed and still have
> two blocked areas (100%) and (98%) with large collaterals around those
> areas. I should have had a full bypass but lack of insurance made the
> decision a financial one. I prefer the stints to the bypass. Age, mid
> 40's. After two months EKG shows no evidence of a heart attack. Total
> Cholesterol two months ago was 230 with HDL 31. Total is now 178 with HDL
> 49. Shooting for a a total in the 170 to 200 range with HDL above 70 and
> small LDL particle shifted to larger particles. Long term I don't want
> total too low but I don't want to have the same problem again either.
>
> I'd like to aggressively go after the problems that caused this heart
attack
> and so far it looks like small particle LDL, high homocysteine, and low
HDL
> are where to point the finger (as well as diet, exercise, and weight all
of
> which have and are being addressed). Following my existing Cardio's
> limited advice and testing would result in most of these NOT being
> addressed or even tested for and discovered. Niacin seems the best choice
> here as apposed to statins.
>
> So Niacin, Insoitol Hexanicotinate, or both? Which is the most compelling
> choice? Perhaps Zetia or a bile acid binder (resin) if I can't keep total
> LDL low enough? Which are the best choices?
>
Cheers,
Michael C Price
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ma...@toad-net.com
"Flush free" niacin has been implicated with abnormal liver tests, stick
with the standard form or the perscription extended release niaspan.
Flushing can be reduced by using a 325 mg aspirin 1/2 hour before the
niacin, taking the latter with meals. The niaspan is taken once a day at
bedtime. In any case, I highly suggest taking such large amounts of
niacin under a doctor's direction because of the liver levels and other
possible side effects.
>I'm trying trying to lower LDL Cholesterol and have low HDL2C and small
>particle LDL which I'd need to increase in size. I'd like to both increase
>my HDL2C (as well as total HDL) and increase my LDL particl size (peak).
>Lp(A) was low which is good and fibrinogen was in the normal range but I'm
>trying to lower it to low normal. C-Reactive Protein was low (good) but
>homocysteine was 17.5. I haven't checked APO B or E yet but blood sugar is
>good. I've lowered homocysteine from 17.5 to 9 (and dropping) over the
>past 4 weeks and increased HDL from 31 to 49. Also lost 17 lbs over the
>past 2 months and started brisk walking with a goal of increasing to
>running 5 miles/day.
>
>I've read that niacin can increase homocysteine and negatively affect blood
>sugar while increasing HDL, HDL2C, decreasing LDL, shifts small particle
>LDL to larger LDL particles, and lowers fibrinogen.
>
>I've started on 2 Grams/day of Niacin (to replace 10 mg Lipitor) and was
>wondering if there is any advantage to using Niacin or flush free Niacin
>(Inositol Hexanicotinate)? Perhaps I should be using both?
>--
>
>Pramesh Rutajit - p297622...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply.
nomail
considered safe to megadose on (eg, 2 grams a day). It's niacinamide
that can harm the liver in large doses.
Sco...@gmail.com
Clarification on forms of niacin:
--Niacin (gives many flushes). Can be hard on the liver and if you take
this, you should have your liver function tests monitored.
--Inositol Hexanicotinate is a "flush free" form that is supposed be as
good for lipids as plain niacin. In my limited experience it has not
had the lipid lowering effects of regular niacin (YMMV). It is however
probably not hepatotoxic (if I were taking it I would still probably
monitor my liver function tests to be safe--I am conservative).
--Time release niacin (I forget the other name). This one is harder on
the liver then regular niacin and not recommended.
Then there is niacinamide...which is a form of B3, but not relevant in
a discussion of lipid lowering.
Sco...@gmail.com
forget the details, but believe the one with the longer half life is
the one that you do not want.
foxo
questions about what it does to the mitochondria and the Kreb cycle.
I understand that in the short term you want to address your
immediate problem.
What I did want to say is that I hope you are taking Cod Liver oil
(Carter's Lemon flavoured is best) and you should also be looking
seriously at Coenzyme Q10 (say about 200-300 mg, per day. Discuss
that with your cardiologist.
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ma...@toad-net.com
No, the sustained release versions have a worse track record, the niaspan
has a shorter period of release and underwent testing speciffically to
test the liver problems of the sustained "flush free" versions, and it
didn't have the problem. What you are reading are the results of niaspan
and not other sustained release versions. Do a search for niacin and
liver in medline and the research will appear. Some studies also say the
sustained release, flush free, forms require higher doses to have the same
lipid results as the standard niacin.
Richard Schulman
>> I'm trying trying to lower LDL Cholesterol and have low HDL2C and small
>> particle LDL which I'd need to increase in size. I'd like to both
>>increase my HDL2C (as well as total HDL) and increase my LDL particl size (peak).
>>Also lost 17 lbs over the
>> past 2 months and started brisk walking with a goal of increasing to
>> running 5 miles/day.
You're losing weight too fast.
>> I've read that niacin can increase homocysteine and negatively affect
>blood
>> sugar while increasing HDL, HDL2C, decreasing LDL, shifts small particle
>> LDL to larger LDL particles, and lowers fibrinogen.
>>
>> I've started on 2 Grams/day of Niacin (to replace 10 mg Lipitor) and was
>> wondering if there is any advantage to using Niacin or flush free Niacin
>> (Inositol Hexanicotinate)?
Michael C. Price:
>Inositol Hexanicotinate is generally reckoned to be less toxic
>than other forms of niacin.
Inositol hexanicotinate is ineffective for lipid amelioration. See
http://tinyurl.com/6ta96.
Ask your physician, Pramesh, if prescription Niaspan would be
appropriate and arrange with him for periodic testing to make sure you
are not incurring liver damage. Dosage is generally started at 500 mg
and increased in steps, provided your body will tolerate the
increases. Beware of amateur advice, whether in this newsgroup or
elsewhere on the Internet.
Richard Schulman (for email reply, remove the "-xyz" part)
Michael C Price
>>Inositol Hexanicotinate is generally reckoned to be less toxic
>>than other forms of niacin.
>
> Inositol hexanicotinate is ineffective for lipid amelioration. See
> http://tinyurl.com/6ta96.
True, I suspect LDL suppression by various forms of niacin act
by interfering with "normal" liver function and are to be avoided.
Inositol hexanicotinate avoids the liver toxicity, any direct effect on
lowering LDL but has other benefits.
IMO, the best strategy for improving cardiovascular health would
a slew of generous helpings of B-vitamins, minerals, carnitine, lipoic
acid. Make sure the minerals include about a gram of magnesium.
And approx 500ug of selenium.
mjh123
came across your post.
Perhaps you should go a different route. Take a look at some products
called Res-Q 1250 and Res-Q LDL-X. My mother had bypass surgery last
year and soon after the doctor wanted to put her on Lipitor. My
brother heard about Res-Q and suggested to her to try it first.
Within 2 months her cholesterol dropped from 245 to 166. Her good
cholesterol went up, her trigylcerides dropped. Her doctor told her
that he has never seen any medication, including the statin drugs,
produce numbers like hers. She also has high blood pressure and
atrial fibrilation. Her blood pressure has lowered and the atrial
fibrilation seems to be getting better since taking the supplements.
She has also changed her diet. She is eating much healthier, which I
believe also makes a difference, but I don't believe that healthy
eating would make such a drastic difference in her cholesterol
numbers in such a short time.
The Res-Q LDL-X is made with Red Yeast Rice, which at one time was
taken off the market, as it was found to also contain statins. It was
allowed back into production after it the statins were removed. I did
research on the internet before my mother took it. I also called the
makers. They assured me that it does not harm the liver. My mother
has now been taking it since December 2003 and she recently had a
liver test and it is fine with no changes.
My brother started to take it also and found that it also took away
his chronic indigestion. He attributes it to the Res-Q, since it went
away after taking it for a few months. It has worked for my family so
I hope it works for you. I think it will. :)
Best of luck to you!
The Res-Q website is:
http://www.n3inc.com/index2.html
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