Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: "mb" <azyth...@hotmail.com>
Date: 19 Apr 2006 20:07:52 -0700
Local: Wed, Apr 19 2006 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: Origin of Katharevousa
António Marques wrote: Where else would the place be on Usenet? I'm flattered but I'm not one > I'm sorry if this is not the place, but here are 5 questions: of the experts who write the books. Answers are strictly personal interpretations: > - How removed was byzantine from classical greek? In the continuosly diglossic situation, for *written high-register Byz., the measure of distance is a little like that of late Latin in Romance lands, ie like asking the distance from the Ciceronian model. A good measure of the distance from the *spoken language of the educated is also like in Romance lands for Cic. Lat. : the frequency and kind of mistakes and of stylistic bloopers. A continuously increasing distance over 2000+ years. A precise measure for the written-to-spoken language is not really > Was there a There sure was a common high dialect for the educated. As for speech, > 'byzantine' greek (pick any other name) or were the languages spoken in > Epirus, Smyrna and Trebizon too diverse? the peripheral areas did develop dialects that diverged over time, some a lot, to the point of becoming non-inter-intelligible like Pontic or Cappadocian. But again, there is a lot that is reconstructed / inferred with the help of the late, recorded dialects. Crete is an exception, having produced a popular literature from the 15th C or so. > - How far removed is the 'other' modern greek language of Greece from With all that diglossic confusion we also get some confusion on what to > the standard? call what. The modern standard is basically demotic Greek --the continuation of the old spoken language-- heavily influenced by a century and a half of compulsory education in Katharevoussa and The War On Loanwords. It finally looks as the end of 25 centuries of diglossia: The "Kathomilouménê" or spoken standard is general, Demotic proper is not used, local dialect regresses fast and merges with standard (with some regional standards), and Kathraevoussa is dead and buried with no flowers on its grave (except for the Church and some traditionalists). > - Constantinople was the centre of a rich cultural life for centuries. Pardon my partly unorthodox interpretation of reading the texts: The > What happened to that cultural life after 1453, within the greek world? Church then suddenly became the guardian of the "Millet", or Greek nation under the Ottomans. The only central point with no lay counterpart, and practically only dispenser of education. Church language was already strongly marked by the non-Attic NT Greek. Also, while the upper clergy was highly proficient in Ancient Attic, most of the clergy was uneducated. We see the written language get the characteristics of Katharevoussa from then on (spoken language substratum but with mostly mechanical replacement of many parts by features of the Attic grammar of the schoolbooks, with set phrases from antique authors and the NT thrown in, and words suspect of Turkish origin carefully replaced by one from the old dictionary). In lands that remained in other hands (Venetian) spoken language > - The greek nationalist movement succeeded first in Achaea. What were Hard to separate Achaea from the rest of the Peloponnese, and hard to > the prospects and ambitions of contemporary greeks outside Achaea? ignore the huge role of Epirus and of the Albanophone Greeks. Prospects and ambitions were not so much linguistic or cultural --see the sizable proportion of Albanian speakers-- as they were religious. Greeks nearer to Constantinople were more efficiently repressed and often a minority in their settlements. Hard to judge ambitions and aspirations with such practical obstacles. > - Does modern Constantinople occupy any special place in modern greek Only if "modern Greek public life" includes myth and the occasional > public life? madman. But of course, it's still the see and seat of the Patriarch and important for the religious-minded. Way more important in cultural references than any other place. But back to language: With only very few Greek speakers left living there, the spoken dialect is dying-to-dead. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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