yet another pronunciation of Nguyen
Peter T. Daniels
Mr. Nguyen "Gwynn." Is this typical of the Pac NW?
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Chris
> On this week's *John Doe* (a new series set in Seattle), everyone called
> Mr. Nguyen "Gwynn." Is this typical of the Pac NW?
Heck, here in the PNW you hear stuff like "Nagooyen" or "Gooyen" a lot
that there's no typical pronunciation.
On another note, my mother used to have a Vietnamese coworker. She
taught my mother to pronounce the <ng> as /l/. This is despite my
mother being a native Tagalog speaker who can already pronounce the
velar nasal initially. But now that I think about it, could this be
an accent issue?
--Chris
Horace LaBadie
vanis...@aol.com (Chris) wrote:
The show is filmed in Vancouver, B.C., researched and written in Los
Angeles, and the star is Australian. The rest of the cast are from Canada
and the US. You sort it out.
HWL
Kevin P. Miller
> Mr. Nguyen "Gwynn." Is this typical of the Pac NW?
I didn't see the original thread, so someone may have mentioned this
already, but I have heard [nudZ@n]. Blecch!
Kevin P. Miller
Prai Jei
(coming between G and H in the alphabet), since it frequently arises in our
language from mutation of initial C or G. We are more likely to get the [u]
wrong, but I presume a pronunciation similar to Welsh [w] is required.
Noswyth dda i pob yng Nghymru
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3D98BB...@worldnet.att.net...
Peter T. Daniels
significant Welsh-American community. But it does have a significant
Vietnamese-American community.
Timothy Nguyen
Timothy Nguyen
when I was a little kid
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
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fat...@attglobal.net
Vietnamese I know say it's pronounced like the English word "win". From the
spelling, I'd guess it's a velar nasal followed by "ujen" more or less as if
Latin. If that's the case, why wouldn't Nguyens tell English speakers to
say "new-yen"? It'd be closer.
Joe
"Timothy Nguyen" <Wand...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sA-dnc2Leaz...@News.GigaNews.Com...
michael farris
fat...@attglobal.net wrote:
> How is it pronounced?
It depends on where the speaker is from. Very generally, n the north [Nwien]
with the syllable peak being [i] and the tone will be high and tense and might
even contain a glottal stop, something like [Ngwi?en]
In the south, [Nwi@N] or [NwiN] or even [wiN] might be heard and the tone starts
lower doesn't go up as high and the glottal stricture is less.
> From the
> spelling, I'd guess it's a velar nasal followed by "ujen" more or less as if
> Latin. If that's the case, why wouldn't Nguyens tell English speakers to
> say "new-yen"? It'd be closer.
"closer" is in the ear of the hearer and anyway it's not the only criteria used
in such situations.
-michael farris
Ben Zimmer
michael farris wrote:
>
> fat...@attglobal.net wrote:
>
> > How is it pronounced?
>
> It depends on where the speaker is from. Very generally, n the north [Nwien]
> with the syllable peak being [i] and the tone will be high and tense and might
> even contain a glottal stop, something like [Ngwi?en]
> In the south, [Nwi@N] or [NwiN] or even [wiN] might be heard and the tone starts
> lower doesn't go up as high and the glottal stricture is less.
So the pronunciation of "Gwynn" [gwIn] mentioned by PTD is a
not-so-terrible approximation by Americans unfamiliar with the initial
velar nasal, and is certainly closer than a spelling pronunciation
like [n@'gu,yEn].
michael farris
Ben Zimmer wrote:
> So the pronunciation of "Gwynn" [gwIn] mentioned by PTD is a
> not-so-terrible approximation by Americans unfamiliar with the initial
> velar nasal, and is certainly closer than a spelling pronunciation
> like [n@'gu,yEn].
Yes, I can think of far worse options.
I once knew a Polish American with the unpromising last name of Krzyszton, instead of
bothering people with some kind of "authentic" pronunciation like (very roughly)
['kSIStojn] he pronounced it "Christian".
The guide to acceptability IMHO is what the persons with the name consider acceptable.
In English I pronounce my own last name ['fer@s] (I pronounce mary, marry and merry
alike) but in Poland I've found it more convenient to often adopt a spelling
pronunciation ['faris] (Spanish-like clear vowels in both syllables and a flapped r).
It makes life easier at times.
-michael farris
Lee Sau Dan
fatula> How is it pronounced? I know nothing of Vietnamese
fatula> orthography, and all the Vietnamese I know say it's
fatula> pronounced like the English word "win". From the
fatula> spelling, I'd guess it's a velar nasal followed by "ujen"
fatula> more or less as if Latin. If that's the case, why
fatula> wouldn't Nguyens tell English speakers to say "new-yen"?
fatula> It'd be closer.
I don't think a Vietnamese would really bother too much to get the
English speaker pronounce Nguyen "correctly". However "close" you
think your pronunciations are (e.g. being able to pronounce the
initial /ng/ sound), it's still very very far away, from the point of
view of Vietnamese sounds, if you can't get the tone right. And the
tone of this name Nguyen is pretty tricky. So, if I were a
Vietnamese, I'd rather tolerate with all sorts of variants that the
English speakers _can_ pronounce.
That's what I do with my Chinese (Cantonese) name. Instead of
teaching each of my Western friends to pronounce it (and remember the
pronunciation) correctly, I simply adapt it to a form that can be
easily pronounced (and memorized) by them, and never bother about
their "mis"pronunciation. (There are always 'foreign' sounds that
they cannot pronounce OR remember.) Anyway, to a Chinese, the more
important element of a name is the meaning and implications deep
inside, not the sounds on the surface.
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
E-mail: dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee
Jayson Elliot
President and Vice-President, respectively. (He, for President.)
I remember distinctly that his first name was pronounced "We," and his
surname pronounced "Win," because our slogan was "We Win With Guy
Nguyen!"
Dylan Sung
"Jayson Elliot" <jay...@permission3000.com> wrote in message
news:8b214e0f.02100...@posting.google.com...
In the kids cartoon, 'Hey, Arnold!', there is a character who is called 'Mr.
Win' who just happens to be a vietnamese.
Dyl.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> When I was in grade school, my friend Guy Nguyen and I ran for class
> President and Vice-President, respectively. (He, for President.)
That's what "respectively" means.
Jayson Elliot
> Jayson Elliot wrote:
> >
> > When I was in grade school, my friend Guy Nguyen and I ran for class
> > President and Vice-President, respectively. (He, for President.)
>
> That's what "respectively" means.
Wonderful. And can you tell me what "smug git" means?
Peter T. Daniels
No. What does it mean? What language is it?
Lee Sau Dan
Ben> So the pronunciation of "Gwynn" [gwIn] mentioned by PTD is a
Ben> not-so-terrible approximation by Americans unfamiliar with
Ben> the initial velar nasal,
What is "not-so-terrible" to Americans may turn out to be very
terrible to others! E.g. not getting the tones right may be extremely
unacceptably terrible already!
Ben> and is certainly closer than a
Ben> spelling pronunciation like [n@'gu,yEn].
I think the _length_ (i.e. duration) of this version matches that of
the Vietnamese pronunciation of Nguyen better than "Gwynn". Any
comments from a Vietnamese speaker?