Scallywag ...
Heidi Graw
Something I picked up along the way...
odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
шалапут - Ukrainian
vaurien - French
varmint - English
These look like logical transitions.
http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definition/varmint
What do you make of it?
Take care,
Heidi
Brian M. Scott
<hg...@telus.net> wrote in <news:gdf2k.13$L03.5@edtnps92> in
sci.lang:
> To my rascally friend Dusan,
> Something I picked up along the way...
> odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
> шалапут - Ukrainian
> vaurien - French
> varmint - English
> These look like logical transitions.
I can't imagine why you think so; Ukrainian <shalaput>
doesn't bear even a superficial resemblance to any of the
others. You've misquoted the Serbo-Croatian: both entries
are two-word phrases, <odvratna osoba> and <odvratna
z^ivotinja>, in which I strongly suspect that <odvratna> is
a pejorative adjective, since <osoba> and <z^ivotinja> are
more or less 'person' and 'beast'.
<Vaurien> is a 16th century contraction of French <vaut
rien>. <Varmint> is a dialect variant of <vermin>, from Old
French <vermin(e)>, from Vulgar Latin *<vermi:num, -i:na>,
from Latin <vermis> 'worm'.
[...]
Harlan Messinger
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:19:56 GMT, Heidi Graw
> <hg...@telus.net> wrote in <news:gdf2k.13$L03.5@edtnps92> in
> sci.lang:
>
>> To my rascally friend Dusan,
>
>> Something I picked up along the way...
>
>> odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
>> шалапут - Ukrainian
>> vaurien - French
>> varmint - English
>
>> These look like logical transitions.
>
> I can't imagine why you think so; Ukrainian <shalaput>
> doesn't bear even a superficial resemblance to any of the
> others.
Maybe she thought the first letter was a Cyrillic W.
António Marques
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Brian M. Scott wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:19:56 GMT, Heidi Graw
> > <hg...@telus.net> wrote in <news:gdf2k.13$L03.5@edtnps92> in
> > sci.lang:
>
> >> To my rascally friend Dusan,
>
> >> Something I picked up along the way...
>
> >> odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
> >> vaurien - French
> >> varmint - English
>
> >> These look like logical transitions.
>
> > I can't imagine why you think so; Ukrainian <shalaput>
> > doesn't bear even a superficial resemblance to any of the
> > others.
>
> Maybe she thought the first letter was a Cyrillic W.
Look; all of the above have a few vowels mixed with a bunch of
consonants. So cut her some slack, will you? Gesus.
Paul J Kriha
news:dfc53c7a-cac5-4622...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>On Jun 6, 8:04 pm, Harlan Messinger
><hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Brian M. Scott wrote:
>> > On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:19:56 GMT, Heidi Graw
>> > <hg...@telus.net> wrote in <news:gdf2k.13$L03.5@edtnps92> in
>> > sci.lang:
>>
>> >> To my rascally friend Dusan,
>>
>> >> Something I picked up along the way...
>>
>> >> odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
>> >> vaurien - French
>> >> varmint - English
>>
>> >> These look like logical transitions.
>>
>> > I can't imagine why you think so; Ukrainian <shalaput>
>> > doesn't bear even a superficial resemblance to any of the
>> > others.
>>
>> Maybe she thought the first letter was a Cyrillic W.
>
>Look; all of the above have a few vowels mixed with a bunch of
>consonants. So cut her some slack, will you? Gesus.
If you knock off the feminine genderizing suffix -a in "odvratna"
you'll find that all four are exactly seven letters long. That can't
be just a simple coincidence, can it? What's the chance of that
happening? One in the zillion billions!
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
The Serbo-Slavic adjective 'odvratan' (Russ. отвратительный/
atvratitelniy abominable; Cz. odvratitelný avertable) means
detestable, repulsive, hideous, repugnant, revolting... from the
Slavic verb odvratiti (side track, divert, repulse, avert, answer;
Russ. отвращать, Cz. odvrátit) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.lang/msg/ac58ac602e4a1b81?hl=en&
Compare Slavic od-vratiti and English ad-vert, di-vert, advertising.
Latin prepositions ad- and de- are equal to the Slavic prefixes do-
(to, towards) and od-(away from) and it clearly shows that both Latin
deverto and Slavic odvratiti (divert) are "made" of od- or de-
prefixed verb verto (Serb. vrteti to turn).
The Serbian syntagma "odvratna životinja" has the meaning "hideous
animal" and I don't understand why the Webster Dictionary translated
it as "varmint". In Bulgarian it is translated as bezobraznik,
pakostnik and the same words exist in other Slavic languages (Russ.
безобразник/bezobraznik hooligan, roughneck; пакостник/pakostnik
debauchee; Serb. bezobraznik, pakosnik).
The Slavic noun životinja (animal) is derived from the same ur-basis
(Gon-Bel-Gon) from which originated the Latin word animal -alis (the
living being, h/animal; from h/anibal, /b/ => /m/ sound change;). It
is interesting to mention the German past participle gelebt (lived),
which seems to be close to Slavic gibl-/živl-/življenje (living;
permuted Bel => Leb syllable; similar as Serbian kobeljanje /trudging;
rolling about/; from Gno-Blak/oblak cloud => kolebanje /teetering,
seesaw/ => gibanje /movement/). Latin vivo and Serbian živo are
related to the Latin word anima (living being, soul), because the all
of these words are derived from the same ur-basis (ur-syllables Gon-
Bel-Gon).
Serbian adjektive živahan (animated, merry, spirited, lively) is
related to Serbian oživljen (reanimated, enlivened) as well as to the
English adjective jovial (from Lat. Jovialis "of Jupiter", Jovis,
Jovius; biblical Javan/Tubal, Serb. Jovan; Serb. javljanje /
appearance, jubilation/). Now we can see that "jubilate" is the same
word as jovial/jolly and Serb. živ(l)ahan (Serb. življe livelier).
There is a big problem with the etymology of the words worm and Slavic
crv. Namely, it is not easy to say, are these two words cognates or
not? Maybe, the English verb "to worm" (to move in a twisting or
contorted motion - especially when struggling), because, if we compare
Serbo-Slavic krivo (curved; Russ. кривая/krivaya curve; Cz. křivka)
and Latin curvus -a -um (curved) we could be able to understand that
Lat. orbicular-is (encircling; orbicular, circular) is related to Lat.
vermicular-is (resembling a worm in form or motion); i.e. uorbiculus
=> vermiculus. It means that Slavic crv/cherv is related to krivljenje
(curving) in the same way as it happened to Latin vermis (from h/orbis
from curvis curving).
An inevitable and final conclusion, according to above analysis, is
self-evident: Latin vermis and Slavic cherv/crv are derived from the
same Hor-Bel-Gon basis and these two words are akin to each other.
As for Ukrainian shalaput (rascal; rake; prodigal; playboy; Russ.
шалопут), I think, it could be compared to Serbian šaljivdžija (joker;
Serb. šala joke). On the other hand, Ukrainian шалапут/shalaput means
"sad", similar to Serb. žaloban, žalobitan (sad, unfotunate); from h/
obli-vati (suffuse; Gon-Bel-Bel-Gon basis; cf. suffuse and Serb. sluz
slime; suze tears). All these words demand a much longer explanation,
of course... :-)
Best wishes to you and your GNOBLE (royal) family!
Dušan
Dušan Vukotić
> My dear Empress von Gnaben-Stein!
>
> The Serbo-Slavic adjective 'odvratan' (Russ. отвратительный/
> atvratitelniy abominable; Cz. odvratitelný avertable) means
> detestable, repulsive, hideous, repugnant, revolting... from the
> Slavic verb odvratiti (side track, divert, repulse, avert, answer;
Of course, You are absolutely right that "scallywag" is related to
Ukrainian shalaput (sad) and Russian shaloput (rascal, playboy); Serb.
šaljivdžija, šaljivac joker. There is the Serbian verb iskaliti (to
pour out /frustration, anger etc./); also. compare the Serbian
adjective raskalašan (wanton, unbridled, abandoned; Russ.
раскольнический schismatic; Serb. raskol schism) and English rascal.
Scottish scallag (rustic) is similar to Serbian seljak (peasant,
rustic); seoblo => Serb. selo (village); seb(l)ičan => sebičan
(egoistic);
I have no time at the moment and I must leave the above analysis
unfinished at least until tomorrow. Nevertheless, I must add that
Heidi is right (as usual) in her "guessing".
DV
Craoi...@gmail.com
You are a very bad person, Heidi.
Dušan Vukotić
Now comes the most interesting question: are the words Eng. rascal and
Serb. raskolnik (dissenter, dissident, schismatic, secessionist,
splitter; Russ. раскольник) related? Serbo-Slavic raskol/raskolnik is
a ras- (raz-) prefixed or compound word combined of rezanje/rez (cut)
+ kolo (circle). If we compared Serbo-Slavic rezanje (cuting; Russ.
резание) with the Serbian word režanj (slice, gyrus) we would see that
this word is derived from the Hor-Gon basis; i.e. from the Slavic noun
krug (circle; Latin circus, girus; Gr. κρίκος ring, circle).
Let me make a small digression at this point. Can anyone explain the
kinship between Serbo-Slavic kralj/korolj (king; Church Sl. краль) and
Latin rex (king)? Is there any relation between Serbian adjective
kraljevski/kraljev (kingly) and Latin regalis (royal)? The lingua
science wrongly accepted an almost unanimous opinion that Slavic kralj
(king) is a borrowing from the Frankish name Karl (Karl the Great,
Charlemagne, Carolus, Charls); even Vasmer says that Slavic kralj/
король is "заимствование из имени Карла Великого" (borrowing from the
name of the Frankish king Karl the Great". This is the one of the
apparent examples of scientific blindness. In reality, Slavic kralj
(king) is derived from the noun kraljevina (realm), which is a
compound word derived of the two agglutinated basis (Hor-Gon + Bel-
Gon) or of two other words: krug (circle) + oblo (round; cf. Serb.
oblast district). Now we can reconstruct an approximate proto IE form
*krh(b)le(h)na, wherefrom the Serbian words okruglo (round), okrug
(district), kralj (king; the master of KRAJ /realm/) and kraj/krajina
(region; cf. Ukraina). The similar situation is in English: roundly/
ringlet, region, royal (from Lat. h/regalis); German Kreisel,
rundlich, kreisen (circulate; Serb. kruženje), Be-reich/Be-zirk (cf.
Serb. po/d/-ručje region); Latin rex (king), region (district,
province), regalis (royal, kingly). Finally, if we compare Serb.
kraljevina (kingdom) and one of the names of the Frankish king -
Charlemagne, from the Carolingian dinasty - we will understand that
Serb. kraljevina (kingdom) is equal to Carolingian and Charlemagne!
Back to the main subject again. We've already seen that Serbian
rezanje (cutting) is coming from režanj (region; a part of a circle;
krug /circle/ => h/regan => režanj /slice/, gyrus). The same happened
to VL rāsica, rāsicāre (scratch) and Lat. ab-rado -radere -rasi -rasum
(to scrape off , shave; Serb. ob-rada /workup/, obrijati /shave/). It
means that English rascal is also a compound word ras-cal, where -cal
is wholeness (Serb. celina). According to the HSF the "kl-"
phonestheme is born from the Gon-Bel basis and therefore the Serbian
word na-seob(l)ina => na-seobina, selo (settlement, village; in-
habitance) is related to kolo (round, wheel) and celina (wholeness).
Additional proof that Serb. celina (entirety, wholeness) is related to
selo (village; from seblo) are the Serbian words raselina (cleft) and
ras-ceplina (cleft) - "rezana celina", "režanj celine" (a section of
an entirety or "region of whole"). It means that rascal is a person
who "cuts" or "splits" the society (whole, entirety), the person that
is "exorcised" (Serb, is-krčiti, is-kružiti /to take out from a circle/
whole/).
DV
Harlan Messinger
And Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy both had seven letters in their last
names, and Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy while Kennedy had a
secretary named Lincoln. And both were assassinated, Lincoln at Ford's
Theater and Kennedy while riding in a car made by Ford--a Lincoln
Continental. And both were succeeded by their vice presidents, both
named Johnson. Etc.
Peter T. Daniels
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Paul J Kriha wrote:
> > "António Marques" <ento...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:dfc53c7a-cac5-4622...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jun 6, 8:04 pm, Harlan Messinger
> >> <hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> Brian M. Scott wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:19:56 GMT, Heidi Graw
> >>>> <hg...@telus.net> wrote in <news:gdf2k.13$L03.5@edtnps92> in
> >>>> sci.lang:
> >>>>> To my rascally friend Dusan,
> >>>>> Something I picked up along the way...
> >>>>> odvratna - Serbo-Croatian
> >>>>> vaurien - French
> >>>>> varmint - English
> >>>>> These look like logical transitions.
> >>>> I can't imagine why you think so; Ukrainian <shalaput>
> >>>> doesn't bear even a superficial resemblance to any of the
> >>>> others.
> >>> Maybe she thought the first letter was a Cyrillic W.
> >> Look; all of the above have a few vowels mixed with a bunch of
> >> consonants. So cut her some slack, will you? Gesus.
>
> > If you knock off the feminine genderizing suffix -a in "odvratna"
> > you'll find that all four are exactly seven letters long. That can't
> > be just a simple coincidence, can it? What's the chance of that
> > happening? One in the zillion billions!
>
> And Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy both had seven letters in their last
> names, and Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy while Kennedy had a
> secretary named Lincoln. And both were assassinated, Lincoln at Ford's
> Theater and Kennedy while riding in a car made by Ford--a Lincoln
> Continental. And both were succeeded by their vice presidents, both
More to the point, both names have two n's and two vowels (If you
don't count "and sometimes y"). K is one letter before L and c is one
letter before d.