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Re: square meters Re: Olympic question(s)
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Robert Bannister
Oct 18, 2012, 10:44:43 PM10/18/12
to
On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
> eyelash" (flinch)?
>
I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an eyelash)"
- no eyes or bats involved.
I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching, although
"didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it doesn't
seem to be used in a positive sense.
An American dictionary, M-W says:
to wink especially in surprise or emotion <never batted an eye>.
--
Robert Bannister
>
> Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
> eyelash" (flinch)?
>
I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an eyelash)"
- no eyes or bats involved.
I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching, although
"didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it doesn't
seem to be used in a positive sense.
An American dictionary, M-W says:
to wink especially in surprise or emotion <never batted an eye>.
--
Robert Bannister
tony cooper
Oct 18, 2012, 10:46:51 PM10/18/12
to
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
wrote:
>On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>> caravan and
>>>>
>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>
>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>
>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>
>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>
>Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
holiday cottage substitute.
Current models similar to the Caravan are the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona,
Town & Country, Quest, and Routan. If logic and application was the
basis for vehicle names, we'd have the Soccer Mom, School Bus,
Suburban Housewife, Team Transport, and the Costco Carrier.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
wrote:
>On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>> caravan and
>>>>
>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>
>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>
>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>
>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>
>Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
holiday cottage substitute.
Current models similar to the Caravan are the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona,
Town & Country, Quest, and Routan. If logic and application was the
basis for vehicle names, we'd have the Soccer Mom, School Bus,
Suburban Housewife, Team Transport, and the Costco Carrier.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Robert Bannister
Oct 18, 2012, 10:49:51 PM10/18/12
to
On 19/10/12 4:42 AM, Skitt wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 6:34 PM, DKleinecke wrote:
>
>> I quote myself -
>>
>> I have no problem with the game but I want to be sure all the players
>> know it is a game.
>>
>> You don't know who is lurking. It would be a shame if someone came by
>> and. observing the genuine erudition being tossed around thought that
>> scholarship took the Book of Daniel seriously.
>>
>> Consider yourself blessed if you are free of evangelists (TV or
>> otherwise). And beware - the Mormons have just announced a big
>> increase in their missionary efforts.
>>
> Yeah, but you can spot them from a mile away.
>
There is something odd about two men, both about the same youngish age,
both wearing suits, walking (occasionally cycling) around a suburban
street where few pedestrians are usually seen.
--
Robert Bannister
> On 10/17/2012 6:34 PM, DKleinecke wrote:
>
>> I quote myself -
>>
>> I have no problem with the game but I want to be sure all the players
>> know it is a game.
>>
>> You don't know who is lurking. It would be a shame if someone came by
>> and. observing the genuine erudition being tossed around thought that
>> scholarship took the Book of Daniel seriously.
>>
>> Consider yourself blessed if you are free of evangelists (TV or
>> otherwise). And beware - the Mormons have just announced a big
>> increase in their missionary efforts.
>>
> Yeah, but you can spot them from a mile away.
>
There is something odd about two men, both about the same youngish age,
both wearing suits, walking (occasionally cycling) around a suburban
street where few pedestrians are usually seen.
--
Robert Bannister
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 18, 2012, 10:50:05 PM10/18/12
to
On Oct 18, 10:08 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:24 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > all religious viewpoints have an element of dogma, since they cannot
> > be established right or wrong empirically. in short God only exists as
> > an *idea* in the minds of people, it has no existance on its own.
> > which in short means "God does not exist"
>
> Only is you equate existence to presence in the physical universe.
>
matehmatics is different. I am talking about existance in the physical
universe.
> Plato was probably not the inventor but he did popularize the
> question.
>
> I might argue that quarks or the "Big Bang" does not exist except as
> an "idea" in the minds of scientists. But that would be cheating
> because I do understand what scientists are doing.
no, we can observe quarks through scattering experiments and the jets
of particles they emit while decaying at relativistic speeds. they
just can't be outside the nucleus, except in a "quark gluon plasma" (a
soup of quarks effectively making a giant nucleus)
>
> However it is a matter of real concern in mathematics. To what extent
> do the transfinite cardinals exist ? The physical universe is
> probably finite (in the useless sense of a VERY large number). At the
> very worst it has the cardinality of the continuum. Or to take the
> argument in a different direction - to what extent does a group
> exist,.
>
> In other words, being in the physical universe cannot be set up as a
> requirement for existence and, in fact, there is no consensus as to
> what existence entails.
> On Oct 18, 2:24 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > all religious viewpoints have an element of dogma, since they cannot
> > be established right or wrong empirically. in short God only exists as
> > an *idea* in the minds of people, it has no existance on its own.
> > which in short means "God does not exist"
>
> Only is you equate existence to presence in the physical universe.
>
matehmatics is different. I am talking about existance in the physical
universe.
> Plato was probably not the inventor but he did popularize the
> question.
>
> I might argue that quarks or the "Big Bang" does not exist except as
> an "idea" in the minds of scientists. But that would be cheating
> because I do understand what scientists are doing.
no, we can observe quarks through scattering experiments and the jets
of particles they emit while decaying at relativistic speeds. they
just can't be outside the nucleus, except in a "quark gluon plasma" (a
soup of quarks effectively making a giant nucleus)
>
> However it is a matter of real concern in mathematics. To what extent
> do the transfinite cardinals exist ? The physical universe is
> probably finite (in the useless sense of a VERY large number). At the
> very worst it has the cardinality of the continuum. Or to take the
> argument in a different direction - to what extent does a group
> exist,.
>
> In other words, being in the physical universe cannot be set up as a
> requirement for existence and, in fact, there is no consensus as to
> what existence entails.
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 18, 2012, 10:51:51 PM10/18/12
to
On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > Ḳur'ān
>
> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> computer could display anything like that.
>
> --
> Robert Bannister
actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
"character map"
> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > Ḳur'ān
>
> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> computer could display anything like that.
>
> --
> Robert Bannister
actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
"character map"
tony cooper
Oct 18, 2012, 10:51:49 PM10/18/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:37:26 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 18/10/12 2:32 PM, Dr Nick wrote:
>> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:57:54 +0100, Dr Nick
>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 06:50:00 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, at least, an outhouse (although not a part of my active
>>>>>> vocabulary) is a separate building with a toilet. Do you use it to
>>>>>> mean
>>>>>> only those without main drainage (and if so, are there any more
>>>>>> limitations). I ask as otherwise this reminiscence doesn't seem
>>>>>> particular relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Having lived for a short time as a child in a house with an
>>>>> outhouse, I have to marvel at an outhouse being described as a
>>>>> "building with a toilet". I would hardly describe a wooden plank
>>>>> with a hole cut in it, and a pit below, as a "toilet".
>>>>
>>>> I would. If I can describe a chemical toilet (a bucket with a hole
>>>> in
>>>> the lid) as such, and I can, then I can't see why a "composting
>>>> toilet"
>>>> can't be so described.
>>>>
>>>> Any others want to chip in. Is this pondian?
>>>
>>> Your sentence said "a building with a toilet". I would accept "a
>>> building that is a toilet", but not your description. Your
>>> description would make a cabin with a chemical toilet in a closet an
>>> outhouse.
>>
>> Yes, I think it would. Neither of the last two terms are ones
>> I'd use but I'd understand them in that context.
>>
>
>For me, an outhouse would usually have to be entered from outside even
>if it was built onto the main building. We have a number of houses like
>that where a verandah has been partially enclosed so that a bedroom or a
>bathroom or a toilet can only be entered from what remains of the verandah.
>
>If there is a door communicating directly into the main building, I
>don't think I could think of it as an outhouse or outbuilding.
I've not seen a house where the bathroom is built into the main
structure but only accessible from the outside, but a large percentage
of newer Florida homes have a bathroom that with access from a door in
the house and a door to the outside. That's called a "pool-planned"
house.
The idea is that if the house has a swimming pool, or if a pool is
added later, someone can enter the bathroom without going through the
house.
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 18/10/12 2:32 PM, Dr Nick wrote:
>> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:57:54 +0100, Dr Nick
>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 06:50:00 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, at least, an outhouse (although not a part of my active
>>>>>> vocabulary) is a separate building with a toilet. Do you use it to
>>>>>> mean
>>>>>> only those without main drainage (and if so, are there any more
>>>>>> limitations). I ask as otherwise this reminiscence doesn't seem
>>>>>> particular relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Having lived for a short time as a child in a house with an
>>>>> outhouse, I have to marvel at an outhouse being described as a
>>>>> "building with a toilet". I would hardly describe a wooden plank
>>>>> with a hole cut in it, and a pit below, as a "toilet".
>>>>
>>>> I would. If I can describe a chemical toilet (a bucket with a hole
>>>> in
>>>> the lid) as such, and I can, then I can't see why a "composting
>>>> toilet"
>>>> can't be so described.
>>>>
>>>> Any others want to chip in. Is this pondian?
>>>
>>> Your sentence said "a building with a toilet". I would accept "a
>>> building that is a toilet", but not your description. Your
>>> description would make a cabin with a chemical toilet in a closet an
>>> outhouse.
>>
>> Yes, I think it would. Neither of the last two terms are ones
>> I'd use but I'd understand them in that context.
>>
>
>For me, an outhouse would usually have to be entered from outside even
>if it was built onto the main building. We have a number of houses like
>that where a verandah has been partially enclosed so that a bedroom or a
>bathroom or a toilet can only be entered from what remains of the verandah.
>
>If there is a door communicating directly into the main building, I
>don't think I could think of it as an outhouse or outbuilding.
I've not seen a house where the bathroom is built into the main
structure but only accessible from the outside, but a large percentage
of newer Florida homes have a bathroom that with access from a door in
the house and a door to the outside. That's called a "pool-planned"
house.
The idea is that if the house has a swimming pool, or if a pool is
added later, someone can enter the bathroom without going through the
house.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 18, 2012, 11:21:31 PM10/18/12
to
On Oct 18, 9:09 pm, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 11:20 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 6:46 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >> On 17/10/12 8:38 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> On Oct 16, 11:12 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 17/10/12 10:51 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>>>> On Oct 16, 8:22 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 17/10/12 7:24 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Formal prayer is usually not, in my view., worship. That would
> >>>>>>> include the Mass. I would call it liturgy rather than worship. From
> >>>>>>> where I sit what the Muslims call prayer isn't worship But some
> >>>>>>> individual Muslims do worship. .
>
> >>>>>>> I do not consider formal religion and/or ritual serious religious
> >>>>>>> expression.
>
> >>>>>> It's serious enough when they're carrying guns.
>
> >>>>> That's not religious expression.
>
> >>>> An awful lot of people seem to express their religious beliefs with
> >>>> weapons - used to be swords, but firearms are the modern way.
>
> >>> For instance?
>
> >> Isn't that what we're in Afghanistan for? The Taliban aren't fighting
> >> with sermons.
>
> > The Taliban are fighting mostly to get rid of the invaders -- first
> > the USSR, currently NATO.
>
> By most account the Taliban was not formed after the
> Soviets withdrew. The official story was in 1994.
>
> > Remember, they offered Bin Laden on a silver platter for trial -- in
> > any jusrisdiction outside the US, and GWB declined the offer.
>
> They blew up the Buddha statutes at Bamyan.
They appeared to be idols.
> On 10/17/2012 11:20 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 6:46 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >> On 17/10/12 8:38 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> On Oct 16, 11:12 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 17/10/12 10:51 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>>>> On Oct 16, 8:22 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 17/10/12 7:24 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Formal prayer is usually not, in my view., worship. That would
> >>>>>>> include the Mass. I would call it liturgy rather than worship. From
> >>>>>>> where I sit what the Muslims call prayer isn't worship But some
> >>>>>>> individual Muslims do worship. .
>
> >>>>>>> I do not consider formal religion and/or ritual serious religious
> >>>>>>> expression.
>
> >>>>>> It's serious enough when they're carrying guns.
>
> >>>>> That's not religious expression.
>
> >>>> An awful lot of people seem to express their religious beliefs with
> >>>> weapons - used to be swords, but firearms are the modern way.
>
> >>> For instance?
>
> >> Isn't that what we're in Afghanistan for? The Taliban aren't fighting
> >> with sermons.
>
> > The Taliban are fighting mostly to get rid of the invaders -- first
> > the USSR, currently NATO.
>
> By most account the Taliban was not formed after the
> Soviets withdrew. The official story was in 1994.
>
> > Remember, they offered Bin Laden on a silver platter for trial -- in
> > any jusrisdiction outside the US, and GWB declined the offer.
>
> They blew up the Buddha statutes at Bamyan.
They appeared to be idols.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 18, 2012, 11:25:19 PM10/18/12
to
On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > Ḳur'ān
>
> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> computer could display anything like that.
In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > Ḳur'ān
>
> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> computer could display anything like that.
the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
depends on your version of Windows.
Robert Bannister
Oct 18, 2012, 11:36:40 PM10/18/12
to
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 18, 2012, 11:53:33 PM10/18/12
to
above. The entrance to one bedroom and to the bathroom required going
through the outside (lockable) door onto the back verandah. The bedroom
and bathroom had separate locks.
More usual in smaller Australian houses than the arrangement you
describe is an extra outside door on the laundry, which will also
contain a lockable toilet - not a half-bath - you're expected to use the
laundry sink for washing your hands.
To House ------------------|
| |
| laundry area |
| a bit squashed |
| |-------------------|
| | |
| \ |
| \ loo |
| | |
| | |
| |___________________|
To Garden
I'm not too good at this kind of drawing. The actual laundry area will
be much larger than that because there's got to be room for a washing
machine and a double sink and maybe for a dryer. It's still pretty
cramped because people seem to stick all sorts of junk in there.
--
Robert Bannister
Guy Barry
Oct 18, 2012, 11:57:10 PM10/18/12
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:aebt4t...@mid.individual.net...
> On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
> > eyelash" (flinch)?
>
> I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above. Flirting
> is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an eyelash)" - no eyes
> or bats involved.
> I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching, although
> "didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it doesn't seem
> to be used in a positive sense.
hearing either "eye" or "eyelash" in that expression.
--
Guy Barry
pauljk
Oct 19, 2012, 12:24:26 AM10/19/12
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
news:ae8qh6...@mid.individual.net...
> On 17/10/12 6:36 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:20:48 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/10/12 8:25 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2012-10-13, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Baptism is about the only Christian rite that can be carried out by
>>>>>> someone who isn't ordained.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, marriage also doesn't require
>>>>> a priest:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is now held as certain that in Matrimony the contracting
>>>>> parties are the ministers of the sacrament, because they make the
>>>>> contract and the sacrament is a contract raised by Christ to the
>>>>> dignity of a sacrament (cf. Leo XIII, Encyclical "Arcanum", 10
>>>>> Febr., 1880; see MATRIMONY).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That fits in with what I've read about marriage among "ordinary
>>>> people" in mediaeval Europe, as described on WP:
>>>>
>>>> With few local exceptions, until 1545, Christian marriages in
>>>> Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry
>>>> and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.[57][58] The
>>>> couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be
>>>> married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was
>>>> not required.[59] This promise was known as the "verbum." If freely
>>>> given and made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was
>>>> unquestionably binding;[57] if made in the future tense ("I will
>>>> marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. One of the functions
>>>> of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which
>>>> was not obligatory. There was no state involvement in marriage and
>>>> personal status, with these issues being adjudicated in
>>>> ecclesiastical courts.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#Europe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I love the way Melusina still has her horny hat on in bed, although I'm
>>> worried about the other woman in a pointy hat: what is she going to do
>>> with that bucket?
>>
>> It's the bishop who is holding the "bucket" in his right hand. It
>> presumably contains Holy Water which he is applying to the loved-up
>> couple using the sprinkler in his left hand.
>>
>> I notice that there is a chamber pot on the floor by the bed.
>>
>
> Right. I couldn't quite see who had whose hand where.
Have you tried to click on the woodcut to get a enlarged view of it?
> It is indeed a very prominent and quite large chamber pot, but I suppose if two
> people have to share the same one...
But not at the same time, I hope! :-)
pjk
pauljk
Oct 19, 2012, 12:34:28 AM10/19/12
to
news:ae8qjf...@mid.individual.net...
> On 17/10/12 7:17 PM, pauljk wrote:
>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
>> news:mu1t78pj93l72b0s6...@4ax.com...
>> I wonder if the picture hasn't been inverted left-to-right.
>> I could be wrong, but the bishop sprinkling holy water with
>> his left hand looks a bit strange.
>
> I can't see his left hand. I think it's under the sheets where Melusina is.
What's wrong with your computer display?
Click on the picture and then you can clearly see his left hand
raised to his face level with the ball of the aspergillum at his miter level.
pjk
PS.
aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
miter = bishop's hat
> On 17/10/12 7:17 PM, pauljk wrote:
>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
>> news:mu1t78pj93l72b0s6...@4ax.com...
>> I could be wrong, but the bishop sprinkling holy water with
>> his left hand looks a bit strange.
>
> I can't see his left hand. I think it's under the sheets where Melusina is.
What's wrong with your computer display?
Click on the picture and then you can clearly see his left hand
raised to his face level with the ball of the aspergillum at his miter level.
pjk
PS.
aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
miter = bishop's hat
Tak To
Oct 19, 2012, 2:29:08 AM10/19/12
to
than Window's Character Map.
http://www.babelstone.co.uk/software/babelmap.html
Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Dr Nick
Oct 19, 2012, 2:58:32 AM10/19/12
to
> On Oct 18, 2:56 pm, Dr Nick <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 18, 8:59 am, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>> > <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 04:47:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >On Oct 18, 2:28 am, Dr Nick <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk>
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> As I said above, "outhouse" isn't part of my active
>> >> >> vocabulary, so for all I know you'll say "that's not an
>> >> >> outhouse". But if I go to Google Books I can find hundreds of
>> >> >> snippets including the phrase "outside toilet" - perhaps you'd
>> >> >> do the same and tell me if any of them are outhouses.-
>>
>> >> >An "outside toilet" is very precisely _not_ an outhouse. It's
>> >> > plumbing
>> >> >that is outside the main building.
>> >> You are talking from an AmE POV. In BrE I would understand an
>> >> "outside toilet" associated with a house to be one that could be
>> >> accessed only by leaving the house. Whether the enclosing walls
>> >> and roof of the toilet are detached from or attached to the house
>> >> is not relevant.
>>
>> > How is that excluded from my description?
>>
>> >> It is still an outside toilet. "Outhouse" could be used of either
>> >> arrangement.
>>
>> > No.
>> So, to return to my original question, which to which you responded
>> with complete astonishment. What do YOU mean by an outhouse.
>> Instead of challenging every term used by the person asking, and
>> playing "no, it's not that, you've got 13 guesses left" with
>> everybody else, why not tell me exactly what you mean by "an
>> outhouse" and why a small building containing defecatory facilities
>> isn't one.-
>
> My complete description appears somewhere in this thread. Search "four
> feet square." Search "crescent-shaped."
And without that it's not an outhouse? Five foot square? three by five?
Round hole in the door? Bucket instead of pit?
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 18, 8:59 am, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>> > <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 04:47:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >On Oct 18, 2:28 am, Dr Nick <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk>
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> As I said above, "outhouse" isn't part of my active
>> >> >> vocabulary, so for all I know you'll say "that's not an
>> >> >> outhouse". But if I go to Google Books I can find hundreds of
>> >> >> snippets including the phrase "outside toilet" - perhaps you'd
>> >> >> do the same and tell me if any of them are outhouses.-
>>
>> >> >An "outside toilet" is very precisely _not_ an outhouse. It's
>> >> > plumbing
>> >> >that is outside the main building.
>> >> You are talking from an AmE POV. In BrE I would understand an
>> >> "outside toilet" associated with a house to be one that could be
>> >> accessed only by leaving the house. Whether the enclosing walls
>> >> and roof of the toilet are detached from or attached to the house
>> >> is not relevant.
>>
>> > How is that excluded from my description?
>>
>> >> It is still an outside toilet. "Outhouse" could be used of either
>> >> arrangement.
>>
>> > No.
>> So, to return to my original question, which to which you responded
>> with complete astonishment. What do YOU mean by an outhouse.
>> Instead of challenging every term used by the person asking, and
>> playing "no, it's not that, you've got 13 guesses left" with
>> everybody else, why not tell me exactly what you mean by "an
>> outhouse" and why a small building containing defecatory facilities
>> isn't one.-
>
> My complete description appears somewhere in this thread. Search "four
> feet square." Search "crescent-shaped."
And without that it's not an outhouse? Five foot square? three by five?
Round hole in the door? Bucket instead of pit?
R H Draney
Oct 19, 2012, 3:19:37 AM10/19/12
to
Robert Bannister filted:
No suits here, but skinny black ties, and *always* seen cycling....
It's too bad we put paid to that business about the police stopping people just
for walking in certain neighborhoods....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
It's too bad we put paid to that business about the police stopping people just
for walking in certain neighborhoods....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Snidely
Oct 19, 2012, 3:50:05 AM10/19/12
to
benl...@ihug.co.nz was thinking very hard :
> But a "Port-a-Potty" (repellent term) is?
It's a brand name that gets used as a generic term. The first
Port-a-Potty (tm) or maybe (r) that I dealt with was a molded box not
much bigger than a microwave oven, but the "door" was on top just like
you'd find on a porcelain shrine. Below the lid was a seat, below the
seat was a tank of blue water.
The transition to generic term refers not just to similar fixtures, but
also to portable outhouses (a brand name there is "Porta John", playing
off the slang term for restroom) and also to the folding stool that has
an open seat and a suspended plastic bag.
> Or "may _be_, maybe? Can you
> further illuminate this distinction?
Peter speaks for us all, doesn't he?
/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
> But a "Port-a-Potty" (repellent term) is?
It's a brand name that gets used as a generic term. The first
Port-a-Potty (tm) or maybe (r) that I dealt with was a molded box not
much bigger than a microwave oven, but the "door" was on top just like
you'd find on a porcelain shrine. Below the lid was a seat, below the
seat was a tank of blue water.
The transition to generic term refers not just to similar fixtures, but
also to portable outhouses (a brand name there is "Porta John", playing
off the slang term for restroom) and also to the folding stool that has
an open seat and a suspended plastic bag.
> Or "may _be_, maybe? Can you
> further illuminate this distinction?
Peter speaks for us all, doesn't he?
/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
Tak To
Oct 19, 2012, 8:58:50 AM10/19/12
to
On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>
>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>
>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>
>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>
>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>
>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>
> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
> holiday cottage substitute.
BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>
>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>
>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>
>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>
>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>
>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>
> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
> holiday cottage substitute.
http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> Current models similar to the Caravan are the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona,
> Town & Country, Quest, and Routan. If logic and application was the
> basis for vehicle names, we'd have the Soccer Mom, School Bus,
> Suburban Housewife, Team Transport, and the Costco Carrier.
it is very odd that something X is named with a word
that denote "group of X". It is analogous to naming a
boat "~ Fleet" or a team "~ League". There is a
fundamental semantic discord there, almost like a
grammatical error.
That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_
"caravan" for a vehicle model might mean that we have
subconsciously accepted that "caravan" the word can
denote a single vehicle.
Just a thought, not a rigorous proof.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 9:13:48 AM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
> > wrote:
>
> >> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
> >>> <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
> > wrote:
>
> >> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>
> >>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
> >>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
> >>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
> >>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
> >>>>>> caravan and
>
> >>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>
> >>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>
> >>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
> >>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>
> >>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>
> >> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
> >> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>
> > Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
> > exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
> > holiday cottage substitute.
>
> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> >>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
> >>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
> >>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
> >>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
> >>>>>> caravan and
>
> >>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>
> >>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>
> >>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
> >>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>
> >>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>
> >> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
> >> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>
> > Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
> > exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
> > holiday cottage substitute.
>
>
> > Current models similar to the Caravan are the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona,
> > Town & Country, Quest, and Routan. If logic and application was the
> > basis for vehicle names, we'd have the Soccer Mom, School Bus,
> > Suburban Housewife, Team Transport, and the Costco Carrier.
>
> I don't mean that a name should follow the function, but
> it is very odd that something X is named with a word
> that denote "group of X". It is analogous to naming a
> boat "~ Fleet" or a team "~ League". There is a
> fundamental semantic discord there, almost like a
> grammatical error.
>
> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_
> "caravan" for a vehicle model might mean that we have
> subconsciously accepted that "caravan" the word can
> denote a single vehicle.
>
> Just a thought, not a rigorous proof.
Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
> > Current models similar to the Caravan are the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona,
> > Town & Country, Quest, and Routan. If logic and application was the
> > basis for vehicle names, we'd have the Soccer Mom, School Bus,
> > Suburban Housewife, Team Transport, and the Costco Carrier.
>
> I don't mean that a name should follow the function, but
> it is very odd that something X is named with a word
> that denote "group of X". It is analogous to naming a
> boat "~ Fleet" or a team "~ League". There is a
> fundamental semantic discord there, almost like a
> grammatical error.
>
> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_
> "caravan" for a vehicle model might mean that we have
> subconsciously accepted that "caravan" the word can
> denote a single vehicle.
>
> Just a thought, not a rigorous proof.
they are identical with words that do have meanings.
You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
a minor demon, do you?
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 9:16:48 AM10/19/12
to
back door and the house proper, where you take off your muddy boots
and perhaps wash your hands, and maybe store your raincoat. (Note that
the formal "front door" of the house is used only on the most formal
occasions.)
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 9:18:24 AM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 2:29 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 11:25 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> >>> Ḳur'ān
>
> >> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> >> computer could display anything like that.
>
> > In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
> > the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
> > depends on your version of Windows.
>
> The free application BabelMap is much, much better
> than Window's Character Map.http://www.babelstone.co.uk/software/babelmap.html
(a) It doesn't come with, and (b) it is far more tool than most people
> On 10/18/2012 11:25 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> >>> Ḳur'ān
>
> >> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> >> computer could display anything like that.
>
> > In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
> > the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
> > depends on your version of Windows.
>
> The free application BabelMap is much, much better
> than Window's Character Map.http://www.babelstone.co.uk/software/babelmap.html
need. It can be quite intimidating on first acquaintance.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 9:19:59 AM10/19/12
to
You asked me to repeat my description of an outhouse. I provided
likely unique terms for you to search. If you will read the
description, all your bizarre quibbles will be answered.
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 19, 2012, 9:26:28 AM10/19/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:58:50 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>>
>>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>>
>>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>>
>>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>>
>>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>>
>> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
>> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
>> holiday cottage substitute.
>
>BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>
Except for those that are not trailers!
>On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>>
>>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>>
>>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>>
>>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>>
>>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>>
>> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
>> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
>> holiday cottage substitute.
>
>BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>
Just one example -
This Winnebago LeSharo Motorhome is described in BrE as a Motor Caravan:
http://www.lesharo.co.uk/
Below the image:
This is about the Winnebago LeSharo Motor Caravan.
A Google search for
motor caravan site:.uk
will find many examples.
The word "motorhome" is also used by Br caravaners/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tak To
Oct 19, 2012, 9:52:05 AM10/19/12
to
Names that uses common (not proper) nouns are
typical selected to evoke an idea or a theme. Mustang
evokes "power", "speed", "untamed", "free" etc.
Gremlin evokes "unconventional", "clever", etc.
There are implicit rules of thumb or conventions. For
example, names most often use nouns, rarely adverbs.
Adjective in the comparative form (e.g., "Healthier" as
a brand of cereal) would be extremely odd sounding
(and would perhaps make it more memorable). Likewise
a "numeric" mismatch would create a mental discord.
Thus the following are odd sounding: "Fleet" as the
name of a boat, "League" as a the name of a team,
or "Village" as the name of a manor.
But "Caravan" as the name of a single vehicle does not
sound odd. Why?
tony cooper
Oct 19, 2012, 10:01:15 AM10/19/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:52:05 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
Wait until you get around to thinking about the Ford Escort.
Guy Barry
Oct 19, 2012, 10:03:26 AM10/19/12
to
"Tak To" wrote in message news:8Wcgs.36801$2h5....@newsfe20.iad...
> There are implicit rules of thumb or conventions. For
> example, names most often use nouns, rarely adverbs.
> Adjective in the comparative form (e.g., "Healthier" as
> a brand of cereal) would be extremely odd sounding
> (and would perhaps make it more memorable).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_%28magazine%29
--
Guy Barry
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 11:41:54 AM10/19/12
to
Because the word isn't in most people's active vocabulary so just has
some vague association with transportation?
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 11:44:35 AM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 10:03 am, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "Tak To" wrote in messagenews:8Wcgs.36801$2h5....@newsfe20.iad...
It's not clear from the description whether the title evokes "nearer"
or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done." Of course
both might be intended, but the words aren't homonyms, so the jig is
up when someone mentions the title.
> "Tak To" wrote in messagenews:8Wcgs.36801$2h5....@newsfe20.iad...
or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done." Of course
both might be intended, but the words aren't homonyms, so the jig is
up when someone mentions the title.
Guy Barry
Oct 19, 2012, 11:52:00 AM10/19/12
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:cfc77fd9-7804-49cc...@b19g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
Anyway, I don't count in the PTD universe, because I'm British.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Oct 19, 2012, 11:58:27 AM10/19/12
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> On Oct 19, 10:03 am, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Clearly you haven't come across "Closer" magazine:
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_%28magazine%29
> It's not clear from the description whether the title evokes "nearer"
> or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done."
its title from a word for a high-powered businessperson?
It's a very downmarket magazine. I sold it for two years. All of my
customers asked for /'kl@Us@/. Not a single one asked for /'kl@Uz@/.
The TV commercials are pretty clear as well.
--
Guy Barry
tony cooper
Oct 19, 2012, 12:21:00 PM10/19/12
to
complete a sale and get the customer to "sign on the dotted line".
There's no "high-powered businessman" connotation. A storm window (UK
= double-glazing) salesman working door-to-door is a "closer" if he's
good at getting customers to buy.
In some businesses - automobile sales, for example - there will be one
person on the floor who is the "closer". He's the one the other
salesmen bring over when the customer shows indication of wanting to
buy but won't commit to buy.
Guy Barry
Oct 19, 2012, 12:27:07 PM10/19/12
to
"tony cooper" wrote in message
news:p3v288dib0pt8r2au...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:58:27 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> > news:4f31c18c-535f-4238...@l7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
> >> It's not clear from the description whether the title evokes "nearer"
> >> or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done."
>
> >You seriously think that a magazine devoted to celebrity gossip would
> >take
> >its title from a word for a high-powered businessperson?
>
> >It's a very downmarket magazine. I sold it for two years. All of my
> >customers asked for /'kl@Us@/. Not a single one asked for /'kl@Uz@/.
>
> >The TV commercials are pretty clear as well.
> A "closer", in the US business sense, is a person who is able to
> complete a sale and get the customer to "sign on the dotted line".
> There's no "high-powered businessman" connotation. A storm window (UK
> = double-glazing) salesman working door-to-door is a "closer" if he's
> good at getting customers to buy.
Then please argue with PTD and not with me. He introduced the description.
> >> or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done."
>
> >You seriously think that a magazine devoted to celebrity gossip would
> >take
> >its title from a word for a high-powered businessperson?
>
> >It's a very downmarket magazine. I sold it for two years. All of my
> >customers asked for /'kl@Us@/. Not a single one asked for /'kl@Uz@/.
>
> >The TV commercials are pretty clear as well.
> A "closer", in the US business sense, is a person who is able to
> complete a sale and get the customer to "sign on the dotted line".
> There's no "high-powered businessman" connotation. A storm window (UK
> = double-glazing) salesman working door-to-door is a "closer" if he's
> good at getting customers to buy.
--
Guy Barry
Jack Campin
Oct 19, 2012, 12:30:04 PM10/19/12
to
> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
never heard it used PTD's way until today.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Jack Campin
Oct 19, 2012, 12:43:18 PM10/19/12
to
In article <bogus-C09F06....@four.schnuerpel.eu>,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9423331/High-Court-rules-on-the-history-of-the-caravan.html
Lord Justice Rix comes across as PTD in a powdered wig.
> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
Weird use of the etymology of "caravan" in court:
> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9423331/High-Court-rules-on-the-history-of-the-caravan.html
Lord Justice Rix comes across as PTD in a powdered wig.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 1:39:02 PM10/19/12
to
any aggressive salesperson a high-powered businessperson?
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 1:40:29 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 12:30 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
> >http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> > That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
> > a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> > that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>
> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>
> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
A convoy is military -- Lend-Lease ships were convoyed across the
> > BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
> >http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
> > That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
> > a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
> > that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>
> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>
> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
Atlantic when FDR was trying to save the Brits' arses before Pearl
Harbor, and troop movements are convoys, too.
Paul Wolff
Oct 19, 2012, 12:40:53 PM10/19/12
to
In message <3ok288dmta2msid2a...@4ax.com>, "Peter
Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
In BrE, a caravan as such is a trailer - that is, an unmotorised vehicle
adapted to be drawn behind a car or van - with sides and roof, door and
windows, enclosing weathertight on-board living space.
When the caravan is self-propelled, there seem to be three different
terms principally used.
The smallest is the camper van, typified by the VW model which has been
evolving since the 1960s. Camper vans are hardly bigger than a car,
though they may have expanding roofs or even a telescopic rear end such
as at www.doubleback.co.uk/ (tediously long-to-load web site).
Larger are the motor caravans and motorhomes. I tend to think of motor
caravans as vans in which the van body behind the cab is either filled
with the fittings of a typical caravan (usually in a panel van
conversion), or replaced by a new shell containing those same fittings.
The new shell kind are a bit more accommodating because they can be made
a little wider and taller on the original van chassis.
The motor homes are likely to be completely coachbuilt on a rolling
chassis, with the driver's and front passenger's seats wholly inside the
domestic space, and these are the largest kind. I've been in one with an
upstairs bedroom and bathroom, and a laterally expanding body to
accommodate a spacious sitting room and kitchen.
Larger motor caravans and motor homes may include garages for parking
the leisure vehicles, or they may tow a small car (Smart seems to be a
favourite).
--
Paul
Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
adapted to be drawn behind a car or van - with sides and roof, door and
windows, enclosing weathertight on-board living space.
When the caravan is self-propelled, there seem to be three different
terms principally used.
The smallest is the camper van, typified by the VW model which has been
evolving since the 1960s. Camper vans are hardly bigger than a car,
though they may have expanding roofs or even a telescopic rear end such
as at www.doubleback.co.uk/ (tediously long-to-load web site).
Larger are the motor caravans and motorhomes. I tend to think of motor
caravans as vans in which the van body behind the cab is either filled
with the fittings of a typical caravan (usually in a panel van
conversion), or replaced by a new shell containing those same fittings.
The new shell kind are a bit more accommodating because they can be made
a little wider and taller on the original van chassis.
The motor homes are likely to be completely coachbuilt on a rolling
chassis, with the driver's and front passenger's seats wholly inside the
domestic space, and these are the largest kind. I've been in one with an
upstairs bedroom and bathroom, and a laterally expanding body to
accommodate a spacious sitting room and kitchen.
Larger motor caravans and motor homes may include garages for parking
the leisure vehicles, or they may tow a small car (Smart seems to be a
favourite).
--
Paul
Lanarcam
Oct 19, 2012, 2:01:15 PM10/19/12
to
Le 19/10/2012 04:37, Robert Bannister a écrit :
on a cold winter day when the snow covered the plank and
your buttocks froze. Been there, but that was a all nother
world.
> On 18/10/12 2:32 PM, Dr Nick wrote:
>
> For me, an outhouse would usually have to be entered from outside even
> if it was built onto the main building. We have a number of houses like
> that where a verandah has been partially enclosed so that a bedroom or a
> bathroom or a toilet can only be entered from what remains of the verandah.
>
> If there is a door communicating directly into the main building, I
> don't think I could think of it as an outhouse or outbuilding.
>
An outhouse or here the "cabinet" was where you had to go
>
> For me, an outhouse would usually have to be entered from outside even
> if it was built onto the main building. We have a number of houses like
> that where a verandah has been partially enclosed so that a bedroom or a
> bathroom or a toilet can only be entered from what remains of the verandah.
>
> If there is a door communicating directly into the main building, I
> don't think I could think of it as an outhouse or outbuilding.
>
on a cold winter day when the snow covered the plank and
your buttocks froze. Been there, but that was a all nother
world.
Paul Madarasz
Oct 19, 2012, 2:12:38 PM10/19/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:
And by extension, a bunch of trucks equipped with CB radios in a line
down the interstate, back in the '70s.
--
"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:
down the interstate, back in the '70s.
--
"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue
James Hogg
Oct 19, 2012, 2:16:50 PM10/19/12
to
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Oct 19, 12:30 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
>>> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
>>> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>
>> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
>> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
>> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
>
> A convoy is military --
except when it isn't.
> On Oct 19, 12:30 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
>>> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
>>> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>
>> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
>> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
>> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
>
> A convoy is military --
--
James
Jack Campin
Oct 19, 2012, 2:33:11 PM10/19/12
to
> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
But big enough to have toilets:
http://www.caravan-advice.co.uk/caravan-toilets.html
Hans Aberg
Oct 19, 2012, 2:46:55 PM10/19/12
to
On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
(i.e., character numbers).
Hans
> On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>>
>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>
>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>
>
> I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>>
>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>
>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>
>
You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
(i.e., character numbers).
Hans
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 19, 2012, 3:00:44 PM10/19/12
to
not, I think, be generally understood in the UK.
In my firm opinion the title of the magazine means "nearer".
Why that title was chosen is another matter. Perhaps the suggestion is
that its reporters get closer to celebrities than do other magazines'
reporters.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 19, 2012, 3:05:30 PM10/19/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
British, Canadian and US navies saved the arses of the Soviets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II
Tak To
Oct 19, 2012, 3:46:06 PM10/19/12
to
Mike L
Oct 19, 2012, 4:03:27 PM10/19/12
to
On 18 Oct 2012 20:54:54 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
wrote:
>On 2012-10-17, benl...@ihug.co.nz <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 10:57 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On Oct 17, 4:01 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 18, 8:32 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> > > A toilet is a separate piece of equipment (not quite "furniture," but
>>> > > in the ballpark). A plank seat that's part of an outhouse isn't a
>>> > > separate piece of equipment. A chemical toilet is.
>>>
>>> > > Port-a-Potties don't have a toilet inside them, it's all a single
>>> > > structure of molded plastic or Fiberglas or something.
>>>
>>> > So it is incorrect to call them "toilets"?! Apparently even some
>>> > Americans don't think so:
>>>
>>> A Port-a-Potty may _be_ a toilet, but it doesn't contain one inside
>>> it.
>>>
>>
>> So this is all we're quibbling over?
>> Thus there is no "pondian difference", and for all speakers "toilet"
>> may refer to either a special piece of equipment/furniture _or_ the
>> entire place (room, small building) dedicated to this purpose, whether
>> or not it contains any special piece of equipment.
>
>They're all euphemisms. Or even euphemisms for euphemisms, euphemisms not
>being what they were.
[...]
Certainly, but let's bear in mind that this is a Port-a-Potty in AmE,
but a Portaloo in BrE. (Other brands are available.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pme1sPcwJP8
These are BrE Port-a-Potties:
http://www.portapotti.net/
--
Mike.
wrote:
>On 2012-10-17, benl...@ihug.co.nz <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 10:57 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On Oct 17, 4:01 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 18, 8:32 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> > > A toilet is a separate piece of equipment (not quite "furniture," but
>>> > > in the ballpark). A plank seat that's part of an outhouse isn't a
>>> > > separate piece of equipment. A chemical toilet is.
>>>
>>> > > Port-a-Potties don't have a toilet inside them, it's all a single
>>> > > structure of molded plastic or Fiberglas or something.
>>>
>>> > So it is incorrect to call them "toilets"?! Apparently even some
>>> > Americans don't think so:
>>>
>>> A Port-a-Potty may _be_ a toilet, but it doesn't contain one inside
>>> it.
>>>
>>
>> So this is all we're quibbling over?
>> Thus there is no "pondian difference", and for all speakers "toilet"
>> may refer to either a special piece of equipment/furniture _or_ the
>> entire place (room, small building) dedicated to this purpose, whether
>> or not it contains any special piece of equipment.
>
>They're all euphemisms. Or even euphemisms for euphemisms, euphemisms not
>being what they were.
[...]
Certainly, but let's bear in mind that this is a Port-a-Potty in AmE,
but a Portaloo in BrE. (Other brands are available.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pme1sPcwJP8
These are BrE Port-a-Potties:
http://www.portapotti.net/
--
Mike.
Mike L
Oct 19, 2012, 4:16:14 PM10/19/12
to
into this American obsession with the preservation of arses.
--
Mike.
Paul Wolff
Oct 19, 2012, 4:20:51 PM10/19/12
to
In message <p6c388567luumsm9o...@4ax.com>, Mike L
<n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
Now I wonder if there's an opportunity for prêt-à-potty out there, or if
it wouldn't be falling between two stools.
--
Paul
<n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
it wouldn't be falling between two stools.
--
Paul
Jack Campin
Oct 19, 2012, 5:48:18 PM10/19/12
to
>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
> A convoy is military
There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
military usages.
James Hogg
Oct 19, 2012, 5:54:28 PM10/19/12
to
Jack Campin wrote:
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>> A convoy is military
>
> There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
> procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
> military usages.
Indeed. And don't forget the Sam Peckinpah film from 1978.
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>> A convoy is military
>
> There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
> procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
> military usages.
--
James
tony cooper
Oct 19, 2012, 5:59:20 PM10/19/12
to
The song "Convoy" hit the top of the pop and country charts in 1975.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk
Lotta trucker jargon here:
Ah, breaker one-nine, this here's the Rubber Duck. You gotta copy on
me, Big Ben, c'mon? Ah, yeah, 10-4, Big Ben, for sure, for sure. By
golly, it's clean clear to Flag Town, c'mon. Yeah, that's a big 10-4
there, Big Ben, yeah, we definitely got the front door, good buddy.
Mercy sakes alive, looks like we got us a convoy...
Was the dark of the moon on the sixth of June
In a Kenworth pullin' logs
Cab over Pete with a reefer on
And a Jimmy haulin' hogs
We is headin' for bear on I-one-oh
'Bout a mile outta Shaky Town
I says, "Big Ben, this here's Rubber Duck.
And I'm about to put the hammer down."
[Chorus]
'Cause we got a little ol' convoy
Rockin' through the night.
Yeah, we got a little ol' convoy,
Ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way.
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy
'Cross the U-S-A.
Convoy!
[On the CB]
Ah, breaker, Big Ben, this here's the Duck. And, you wanna back off
them hogs? Yeah, 10-4, 'bout five mile or so. Ten, roger. Them hogs is
gettin' in-tense up here.
By the time we got into Tulsa Town,
We had eighty-five trucks in all.
But they's a roadblock up on the cloverleaf,
And them bears was wall-to-wall.
Yeah, them smokies is thick as bugs on a bumper;
They even had a bear in the air!
I says, "Callin' all trucks, this here's the Duck.
"We about to go a-huntin' bear."
[Chorus]
'Cause we got a great big convoy
Rockin' through the night.
Yeah, we got a great big convoy,
Ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way.
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy
'Cross the U-S-A.
Convoy!
[On the CB]
Ah, you wanna give me a 10-9 on that, Big Ben? Negatory, Big Ben;
you're still too close. Yeah, them hogs is startin' to close up my
sinuses. Mercy sakes, you better back off another ten.
Well, we rolled up Interstate 44
Like a rocket sled on rails.
We tore up all of our swindle sheets,
And left 'em settin' on the scales.
By the time we hit that Shy-town,
Them bears was a-gettin' smart:
They'd brought up some reinforcements
From the Illinois National Guard.
There's armored cars, and tanks, and jeeps,
And rigs of ev'ry size.
Yeah, them chicken coops was full'a bears
And choppers filled the skies.
Well, we shot the line and we went for broke
With a thousand screamin' trucks
An' eleven long-haired Friends a' Jesus
In a chartreuse micro-bus.
[On the CB]
Ah, Rubber Duck to Sodbuster, come over. Yeah, 10-4, Sodbuster?
Lissen, you wanna put that micro-bus in behind that suicide jockey?
Yeah, he's haulin' dynamite, and he needs all the help he can get.
Well, we laid a strip for the Jersey shore
And prepared to cross the line
I could see the bridge was lined with bears
But I didn't have a dog-goned dime.
I says, "Big Ben, this here's the Rubber Duck.
We just ain't a-gonna pay no toll."
So we crashed the gate doing ninety-eight
I says "Let them truckers roll, 10-4."
[Chorus]
'Cause we got a mighty convoy
Rockin' through the night.
Yeah, we got a mighty convoy,
Ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way.
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy
'Cross the U-S-A.
Convoy! Ah, 10-4, Big Ben, what's your twenty?
Convoy! OMAHA? Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out
there for sure. Well, mercy
Convoy! sakes, good buddy, we gonna back on outta here, so keep the
bugs off your glass and the bears off your...
Convoy! tail. We'll catch you on the flip-flop. This here's the Rubber
Duck on the side.
Convoy! We gone. 'Bye, 'bye.
tony cooper
Oct 19, 2012, 6:13:19 PM10/19/12
to
consider an automobile salesman, an aluminum siding salesman, or
storm window salesman a "high-powered businessperson" even if the
person was extremely successful.
A man that owns several automobile dealerships could be a
"high-powered businessperson", though.
tony cooper
Oct 19, 2012, 6:15:45 PM10/19/12
to
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:48:18 +0100, Jack Campin
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>> A convoy is military
>
>There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
>procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
>military usages.
>
FWIW, we also have "cavalcade" as a description of a group of vehicles
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>> A convoy is military
>
>There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
>procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
>military usages.
>
traveling together.
Jerry Friedman
Oct 19, 2012, 6:34:50 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 2:26 pm, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <p6c388567luumsm9ojmr619rtub8jkm...@4ax.com>, Mike L
> <n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
--
Jerry Friedman
> In message <p6c388567luumsm9ojmr619rtub8jkm...@4ax.com>, Mike L
> <n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
...
> >Certainly, but let's bear in mind that this is a Port-a-Potty in AmE,
> >but a Portaloo in BrE. (Other brands are available.)
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pme1sPcwJP8
> >These are BrE Port-a-Potties:
> >http://www.portapotti.net/
>
> Now I wonder if there's an opportunity for pr t- -potty out there, or if
> >Certainly, but let's bear in mind that this is a Port-a-Potty in AmE,
> >but a Portaloo in BrE. (Other brands are available.)
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pme1sPcwJP8
> >These are BrE Port-a-Potties:
> >http://www.portapotti.net/
>
> it wouldn't be falling between two stools.
What malign fate made me read that?
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 6:37:10 PM10/19/12
to
On 19/10/12 12:34 PM, pauljk wrote:
>
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:ae8qjf...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 17/10/12 7:17 PM, pauljk wrote:
>>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
>>> news:mu1t78pj93l72b0s6...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:20:48 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/10/12 8:25 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>>> On 2012-10-13, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>>>>>> Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baptism is about the only Christian rite that can be carried out by
>>>>>>>> someone who isn't ordained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, marriage also doesn't
>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>> a priest:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is now held as certain that in Matrimony the contracting
>>>>>>> parties are the ministers of the sacrament, because they
>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>> contract and the sacrament is a contract raised by Christ to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> dignity of a sacrament (cf. Leo XIII, Encyclical "Arcanum", 10
>>>>>>> Febr., 1880; see MATRIMONY).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That fits in with what I've read about marriage among "ordinary
>>>>>> people" in mediaeval Europe, as described on WP:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With few local exceptions, until 1545, Christian marriages in
>>>>>> Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry
>>>>>> and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.[57][58]
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be
>>>>>> married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was
>>>>>> not required.[59] This promise was known as the "verbum." If
>>>>>> freely
>>>>>> given and made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was
>>>>>> unquestionably binding;[57] if made in the future tense ("I will
>>>>>> marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. One of the
>>>>>> functions
>>>>>> of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which
>>>>>> was not obligatory. There was no state involvement in marriage
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> personal status, with these issues being adjudicated in
>>>>>> ecclesiastical courts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#Europe
>>>>>
>>>>> I love the way Melusina still has her horny hat on in bed, although
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> worried about the other woman in a pointy hat: what is she going to do
>>>>> with that bucket?
>>>>
>>>> It's the bishop who is holding the "bucket" in his right hand. It
>>>> presumably contains Holy Water which he is applying to the loved-up
>>>> couple using the sprinkler in his left hand.
>>>
>>> I wonder if the picture hasn't been inverted left-to-right.
>>> I could be wrong, but the bishop sprinkling holy water with
>>> his left hand looks a bit strange.
>>
>> I can't see his left hand. I think it's under the sheets where
>> Melusina is.
>
> What's wrong with your computer display?
>
> Click on the picture and then you can clearly see his left hand
> raised to his face level with the ball of the aspergillum at his miter
> level.
>
> pjk
>
>
> PS.
> aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
> miter = bishop's hat
>
>
It never occurred to me that it was an enlargeable picture. Thank you,
and thank for explaining what that dishwasher thing is. We spell
bishop's hats and wood joints with an -re, of course.
--
Robert Bannister
>
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:ae8qjf...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 17/10/12 7:17 PM, pauljk wrote:
>>> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
>>> news:mu1t78pj93l72b0s6...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:20:48 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/10/12 8:25 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>>> On 2012-10-13, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>>>>>> Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baptism is about the only Christian rite that can be carried out by
>>>>>>>> someone who isn't ordained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, marriage also doesn't
>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>> a priest:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is now held as certain that in Matrimony the contracting
>>>>>>> parties are the ministers of the sacrament, because they
>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>> contract and the sacrament is a contract raised by Christ to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> dignity of a sacrament (cf. Leo XIII, Encyclical "Arcanum", 10
>>>>>>> Febr., 1880; see MATRIMONY).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That fits in with what I've read about marriage among "ordinary
>>>>>> people" in mediaeval Europe, as described on WP:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With few local exceptions, until 1545, Christian marriages in
>>>>>> Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry
>>>>>> and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.[57][58]
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be
>>>>>> married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was
>>>>>> not required.[59] This promise was known as the "verbum." If
>>>>>> freely
>>>>>> given and made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was
>>>>>> unquestionably binding;[57] if made in the future tense ("I will
>>>>>> marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. One of the
>>>>>> functions
>>>>>> of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which
>>>>>> was not obligatory. There was no state involvement in marriage
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> personal status, with these issues being adjudicated in
>>>>>> ecclesiastical courts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#Europe
>>>>>
>>>>> I love the way Melusina still has her horny hat on in bed, although
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> worried about the other woman in a pointy hat: what is she going to do
>>>>> with that bucket?
>>>>
>>>> It's the bishop who is holding the "bucket" in his right hand. It
>>>> presumably contains Holy Water which he is applying to the loved-up
>>>> couple using the sprinkler in his left hand.
>>>
>>> I wonder if the picture hasn't been inverted left-to-right.
>>> I could be wrong, but the bishop sprinkling holy water with
>>> his left hand looks a bit strange.
>>
>> I can't see his left hand. I think it's under the sheets where
>> Melusina is.
>
> What's wrong with your computer display?
>
> Click on the picture and then you can clearly see his left hand
> raised to his face level with the ball of the aspergillum at his miter
> level.
>
> pjk
>
>
> PS.
> aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
> miter = bishop's hat
>
>
It never occurred to me that it was an enlargeable picture. Thank you,
and thank for explaining what that dishwasher thing is. We spell
bishop's hats and wood joints with an -re, of course.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 6:41:58 PM10/19/12
to
use. I had never found a use for Character Viewer before. I use the
other one quite frequently when typing in Macedonian or Russian.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 6:47:09 PM10/19/12
to
On 19/10/12 9:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>
> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
> a minor demon, do you?
>
Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
"Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
"Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
--
Robert Bannister
> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>
> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
> a minor demon, do you?
>
Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
"Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
"Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 6:54:43 PM10/19/12
to
On 20/10/12 5:59 AM, tony cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 19, 12:30 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>>>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>>> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
>>>> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
>>>> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>>>
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>>
>>> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
>>> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
>>> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
>>
>> A convoy is military -- Lend-Lease ships were convoyed across the
>> Atlantic when FDR was trying to save the Brits' arses before Pearl
>> Harbor, and troop movements are convoys, too.
>
> And big rigs. Remember CB radios?
>
> The song "Convoy" hit the top of the pop and country charts in 1975.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk
>
> Lotta trucker jargon here:
>
I remember that song well.
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 19, 12:30 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>>>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>>> That we don't feel especially odd about the _name_ "caravan" for
>>>> a vehicle model might mean that we have subconsciously accepted
>>>> that "caravan" the word can denote a single vehicle.
>>>
>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>>
>>> If I heard someone using the word "caravan" for a group of vehicles
>>> travelling together I'd expect said vehicles all to have humps. I'd
>>> never heard it used PTD's way until today.
>>
>> A convoy is military -- Lend-Lease ships were convoyed across the
>> Atlantic when FDR was trying to save the Brits' arses before Pearl
>> Harbor, and troop movements are convoys, too.
>
> And big rigs. Remember CB radios?
>
> The song "Convoy" hit the top of the pop and country charts in 1975.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk
>
> Lotta trucker jargon here:
>
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 7:01:54 PM10/19/12
to
On 20/10/12 2:01 AM, Lanarcam wrote:
> Le 19/10/2012 04:37, Robert Bannister a �crit :
At grandma's, we used potties under the bed because it was far too scary
to go down the backyard in the dark even with a torch. I suspect we
didn't notice cold at that age* - it was the darkness that was off-putting.
* Discussion item: Do children have feelings? I seem to remember that
19th century doctors or some other group didn't think they did.
--
Robert Bannister
> Le 19/10/2012 04:37, Robert Bannister a �crit :
to go down the backyard in the dark even with a torch. I suspect we
didn't notice cold at that age* - it was the darkness that was off-putting.
* Discussion item: Do children have feelings? I seem to remember that
19th century doctors or some other group didn't think they did.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 19, 2012, 7:03:03 PM10/19/12
to
On 19/10/12 11:57 AM, Guy Barry wrote:
>
>
> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
> news:aebt4t...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>
>> > Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
>> > eyelash" (flinch)?
>>
>
>> I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
>> Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an
>> eyelash)" - no eyes or bats involved.
>
>> I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching,
>> although "didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it
>> doesn't seem to be used in a positive sense.
>
> I use "didn't bat an eyelid" to mean "didn't flinch". I don't recall
> hearing either "eye" or "eyelash" in that expression.
>
That's the bit I couldn't remember: eyelid. That's the expression. I
shouldn't have looked at dictionaries.
--
Robert Bannister
>
>
> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
> news:aebt4t...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>
>> > Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
>> > eyelash" (flinch)?
>>
>
>> I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
>> Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an
>> eyelash)" - no eyes or bats involved.
>
>> I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching,
>> although "didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it
>> doesn't seem to be used in a positive sense.
>
> I use "didn't bat an eyelid" to mean "didn't flinch". I don't recall
> hearing either "eye" or "eyelash" in that expression.
>
That's the bit I couldn't remember: eyelid. That's the expression. I
shouldn't have looked at dictionaries.
--
Robert Bannister
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 19, 2012, 7:25:06 PM10/19/12
to
means a procession of any kind, not just vehicular. The word derives
from the same origin as cavalry and cavalier: late Latin caballica-re to
ride on horseback, < caballus horse. [OED]
The OED's most recent quote is:
1941 N. Coward Australia Visited iv. 25, I was fortunate to be
able to administer a little artificial respiration to the
word:— 'Cavalcade'. Before I wrote the play of that name the word
had fallen into disuse... Now..there are..Cavalcades of fashion,
Hollywood Cavalcades,..Cavalcades of practically anything that can
be cavalcaded.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Oct 19, 2012, 7:30:12 PM10/19/12
to
Waterloo:
http://www.lyrics007.com/Abba%20Lyrics/Waterloo%20Lyrics.html
>(Other brands are available.)
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pme1sPcwJP8
>These are BrE Port-a-Potties:
>http://www.portapotti.net/
--
DKleinecke
Oct 19, 2012, 7:53:57 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 18, 7:44 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
> > Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
> > eyelash" (flinch)?
>
> I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
> Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an eyelash)"
> - no eyes or bats involved.
>
> I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching, although
> "didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it doesn't
> seem to be used in a positive sense.
>
> An American dictionary, M-W says:
> On 18/10/12 11:44 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
> > Does aue not distinguish "bat an eye" (flirt) from "bat an
> > eyelash" (flinch)?
>
> I can't think of "batting an eye" as meaning either of the above.
> Flirting is most definitely "fluttering eyelashes (possibly an eyelash)"
> - no eyes or bats involved.
>
> I can't think of an eye phrase that definitely means flinching, although
> "didn't bat an eye" does indicate not flinching. In fact, it doesn't
> seem to be used in a positive sense.
>
>
> to wink especially in surprise or emotion <never batted an eye>.
> --
> Robert Bannister
"Raising an eyebrow" expresses disapproval in some circles.
DKleinecke
Oct 19, 2012, 7:58:06 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 18, 7:50 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 10:08 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 18, 2:24 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > all religious viewpoints have an element of dogma, since they cannot
> > > be established right or wrong empirically. in short God only exists as
> > > an *idea* in the minds of people, it has no existance on its own.
> > > which in short means "God does not exist"
>
> > Only is you equate existence to presence in the physical universe.
>
> matehmatics is different. I am talking about existance in the physical
> universe.
>
> > Plato was probably not the inventor but he did popularize the
> > question.
>
> > I might argue that quarks or the "Big Bang" does not exist except as
> > an "idea" in the minds of scientists. But that would be cheating
> > because I do understand what scientists are doing.
>
> no, we can observe quarks through scattering experiments and the jets
> of particles they emit while decaying at relativistic speeds. they
> just can't be outside the nucleus, except in a "quark gluon plasma" (a
> soup of quarks effectively making a giant nucleus)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > However it is a matter of real concern in mathematics. To what extent
> > do the transfinite cardinals exist ? The physical universe is
> > probably finite (in the useless sense of a VERY large number). At the
> > very worst it has the cardinality of the continuum. Or to take the
> > argument in a different direction - to what extent does a group
> > exist,.
>
> > In other words, being in the physical universe cannot be set up as a
> > requirement for existence and, in fact, there is no consensus as to
> > what existence entails.
But you didn't say "in the physical universe" when you said "exist". I
forgot to mention Plato's bete noir - Justice (DIKE). In what sense do
ideas like justice and freedom exist. I don't think it is acceptable
to claim they do not exist..
> On Oct 18, 10:08 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 18, 2:24 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > all religious viewpoints have an element of dogma, since they cannot
> > > be established right or wrong empirically. in short God only exists as
> > > an *idea* in the minds of people, it has no existance on its own.
> > > which in short means "God does not exist"
>
> > Only is you equate existence to presence in the physical universe.
>
> matehmatics is different. I am talking about existance in the physical
> universe.
>
> > Plato was probably not the inventor but he did popularize the
> > question.
>
> > I might argue that quarks or the "Big Bang" does not exist except as
> > an "idea" in the minds of scientists. But that would be cheating
> > because I do understand what scientists are doing.
>
> no, we can observe quarks through scattering experiments and the jets
> of particles they emit while decaying at relativistic speeds. they
> just can't be outside the nucleus, except in a "quark gluon plasma" (a
> soup of quarks effectively making a giant nucleus)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > However it is a matter of real concern in mathematics. To what extent
> > do the transfinite cardinals exist ? The physical universe is
> > probably finite (in the useless sense of a VERY large number). At the
> > very worst it has the cardinality of the continuum. Or to take the
> > argument in a different direction - to what extent does a group
> > exist,.
>
> > In other words, being in the physical universe cannot be set up as a
> > requirement for existence and, in fact, there is no consensus as to
> > what existence entails.
But you didn't say "in the physical universe" when you said "exist". I
forgot to mention Plato's bete noir - Justice (DIKE). In what sense do
ideas like justice and freedom exist. I don't think it is acceptable
to claim they do not exist..
DKleinecke
Oct 19, 2012, 8:06:57 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 18, 7:51 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Robert Bannister
>
> actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
> "character map"
How to spell that name is still unsettled. For a while I used Qur'an
because this is a popular spelling and I dislike dots under letters.
But then I thought it is not customary to include such an apostrophe
in a fully Anglicized word so now I write Quran. I take the position
that Quran is now an English word and I admit it would better as Kuran
(or even Curan). But I have never seen that spelling although Google
claims it exists (where it does not say).
> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
> > On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > > Ḳur'ān
>
> > How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> > computer could display anything like that.
>
> > --
>
> > On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > > Ḳur'ān
>
> > How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> > computer could display anything like that.
>
> > Robert Bannister
>
> actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
> "character map"
How to spell that name is still unsettled. For a while I used Qur'an
because this is a popular spelling and I dislike dots under letters.
But then I thought it is not customary to include such an apostrophe
in a fully Anglicized word so now I write Quran. I take the position
that Quran is now an English word and I admit it would better as Kuran
(or even Curan). But I have never seen that spelling although Google
claims it exists (where it does not say).
DKleinecke
Oct 19, 2012, 8:15:02 PM10/19/12
to
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 19, 2012, 8:19:55 PM10/19/12
to
tin the third edition, where Q is used.
Hans Aberg
Oct 19, 2012, 8:20:45 PM10/19/12
to
On 2012/10/20 00:41, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 20/10/12 2:46 AM, Hans Aberg wrote:
>> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>>>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>>>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>>
>> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
>> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
>> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
>> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
>> (i.e., character numbers).
>
> I tried that first, but it seems to depend on which font is currently in
> use.
Make sure the character encoding of your file is UTF-8. The character
> On 20/10/12 2:46 AM, Hans Aberg wrote:
>> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>>>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>>>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>>
>> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
>> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
>> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
>> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
>> (i.e., character numbers).
>
> I tried that first, but it seems to depend on which font is currently in
> use.
produced is the always the same, but not all diacritical mark-letter
combinations work - a limitation of Unicode. If it does not display
correctly, try changing the font afterwards.
>I had never found a use for Character Viewer before.
> I use the
> other one quite frequently when typing in Macedonian or Russian.
paint on the keys differ, though there used to be a US keyboard with one
key or something less than the international. The key sends a key code
to the computer, which translates it into a character. You can make your
own key map, but it is time consuming:
http://scripts.sil.org/ukelele
DKleinecke
Oct 19, 2012, 8:30:24 PM10/19/12
to
hen and you will have to deal with an irate fowl.
Did I ever mention how amusing it was, in a place where both ran
around loose in the kitchen, that the day-old chicks intimidated the
guinea pigs. They learn to peck while still in the shell.
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 19, 2012, 8:34:15 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 8:19 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 8:06 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 7:51 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > > > > Ḳur'ān
>
> > > > How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> > > > computer could display anything like that.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Robert Bannister
>
> > > actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
> > > "character map"
>
> > How to spell that name is still unsettled. For a while I used Qur'an
> > because this is a popular spelling and I dislike dots under letters.
> > But then I thought it is not customary to include such an apostrophe
> > in a fully Anglicized word so now I write Quran. I take the position
> > that Quran is now an English word and I admit it would better as Kuran
> > (or even Curan). But I have never seen that spelling although Google
> > claims it exists (where it does not say).
Kur'an is the Turkish spelling (those who established the romamization
> On Oct 19, 8:06 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 7:51 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > > > > Ḳur'ān
>
> > > > How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> > > > computer could display anything like that.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Robert Bannister
>
> > > actually I copied it from a passage, but you can do it using
> > > "character map"
>
> > How to spell that name is still unsettled. For a while I used Qur'an
> > because this is a popular spelling and I dislike dots under letters.
> > But then I thought it is not customary to include such an apostrophe
> > in a fully Anglicized word so now I write Quran. I take the position
> > that Quran is now an English word and I admit it would better as Kuran
> > (or even Curan). But I have never seen that spelling although Google
> > claims it exists (where it does not say).
opted out of distinguishing kaf and qaf, although the difference
exists in Turkish, but is phonemic only when in loanwords. Azeri has
<q> but they pronounce it voiced), the hamza is retained because pious
people use it, and it distinguihes it from the Turkish word <kuran>
"founder".
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 10:45:31 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 7:25 pm, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
Does the film still exist? Is it perhaps the only Best Picture that
hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
or disk.
wrote:
hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
or disk.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 10:51:55 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 2:46 pm, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> > On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> >>>> Ḳur'ān
>
> >>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> >>> computer could display anything like that.
>
> >> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> >>>> Ḳur'ān
>
> >>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
> >>> computer could display anything like that.
>
> >> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
> >> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
> >> depends on your version of Windows.
>
> > I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>
> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
> (i.e., character numbers).
Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> >> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
> >> depends on your version of Windows.
>
> > I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>
> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
> (i.e., character numbers).
available diacritics. When I had to switch to PC, I was astonished
that there wasn't a uniform keying for the accented letters in every
app.
In Word, I've made what must be several hundred custom key assignments
for all the phonetic and accented letters I might ever need (and quite
a few I might not). It's annoying that they don't carry over even to
PowerPoint, so I have to use insert Character, or else type stuff in
Word and copy-paste into PP.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 10:52:55 PM10/19/12
to
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 10:54:49 PM10/19/12
to
> Did I ever mention how amusing it was, in a place where both ran
> around loose in the kitchen, that the day-old chicks intimidated the
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 19, 2012, 10:56:21 PM10/19/12
to
On Oct 19, 7:30 pm, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
No it doesn't, the r's are in different places!
wrote:
pauljk
Oct 20, 2012, 12:53:58 AM10/20/12
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
news:aee30m...@mid.individual.net...
>> PS.
>> aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
>> miter = bishop's hat
>
> It never occurred to me that it was an enlargeable picture. Thank you, and thank for
> explaining what that dishwasher thing is.
No worries mate.
>> aspergillum = holy water sprinkler
>> miter = bishop's hat
>
> It never occurred to me that it was an enlargeable picture. Thank you, and thank for
> explaining what that dishwasher thing is.
> We spell bishop's hats and wood joints with an -re, of course.
hat was spelled miter even in the Old Country, but you're right,
it's mitre as well. I don't remember ever having written about it.
Perhaps, I could have saved myself some moments of indecision
by calling it mitra.
pjk
Guy Barry
Oct 20, 2012, 2:35:51 AM10/20/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:e783881rancuiu4la...@4ax.com...
[Closer magazine]
> In my firm opinion the title of the magazine means "nearer".
I've never imagined that it meant anything else.
> Why that title was chosen is another matter. Perhaps the suggestion is
> that its reporters get closer to celebrities than do other magazines'
> reporters.
The French edition (though not the British one) was in the news recently for
printing topless photos of the Duchess of Cambridge, which were taken with a
telephoto lens from 1km away. If that's as close as they normally get then
I'm not too impressed.
--
Guy Barry
Lanarcam
Oct 20, 2012, 3:01:00 AM10/20/12
to
Le 20/10/2012 01:01, Robert Bannister a �crit :
They certainly do and those doctors were blinded by false
litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
Of course they do now.
litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
Of course they do now.
Guy Barry
Oct 20, 2012, 3:43:35 AM10/20/12
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
non-rhotic speakers. I accept that the names may not rhyme in Scotland and
some other parts of the UK but they're a perfect rhyme for me. I have been
known to sing "Portaloo" to the tune of the Abba song.
--
Guy Barry
Joachim Pense
Oct 20, 2012, 4:24:52 AM10/20/12
to
Am 20.10.2012 09:01, schrieb Lanarcam:
> They certainly do and those doctors were blinded by false
> litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
> reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
> infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
> Of course they do now.
If I am not mistaken, that opinion was still standard around 1970.
> They certainly do and those doctors were blinded by false
> litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
> reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
> infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
> Of course they do now.
Joachim
Hans Aberg
Oct 20, 2012, 5:06:28 AM10/20/12
to
On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Oct 19, 2:46 pm, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>
>>>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>
>>>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>>>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>>>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>
>>> I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>>
>> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
>> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
>> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
>> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
>> (i.e., character numbers).
>
> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> available diacritics.
That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> On Oct 19, 2:46 pm, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>> On 2012/10/19 05:36, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/10/12 11:25 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> On Oct 18, 9:02 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/10/12 5:22 PM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ḳur'ān
>>
>>>>> How do you do that little dot under the K? I didn't even know my
>>>>> computer could display anything like that.
>>
>>>> In Windows, go to Character Map and select the character you want (and
>>>> the font you're using, if your email lets you pick). Where to find it
>>>> depends on your version of Windows.
>>
>>> I use Mac, but I see it is called Character Viewer.
>>
>> You can open the Keyboard Viewer. Hold down <option> or <shift><option>
>> to see the combining characters (colored) in your key map (US Extended
>> has a lot of them). Type it followed by the letter. There is also a
>> Unicode Hex Input key map, for typing hexadecimal Unicode code points
>> (i.e., character numbers).
>
> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> available diacritics.
in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
using the US Extended key map, the Keyboard Viewer shows all letters it
will combine with. For example, it works with r which produces ṛ, but
not p, which just results in .p.
> .When I had to switch to PC, I was astonished
> that there wasn't a uniform keying for the accented letters in every
> app.
On Mac, it depends only on the key map. For example, the Swedish Pro
> app.
does not have underdot.
> In Word, I've made what must be several hundred custom key assignments
> for all the phonetic and accented letters I might ever need (and quite
> a few I might not). It's annoying that they don't carry over even to
> PowerPoint, so I have to use insert Character, or else type stuff in
> Word and copy-paste into PP.
applications. Searching for "IPA key map", gave
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=UniIPAKeyboard
One can also make ones own key maps, though this is time consuming. The
same site has for Mac:
http://scripts.sil.org/ukelele
Hans Aberg
Oct 20, 2012, 5:21:07 AM10/20/12
to
version was released August, 1994:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ResEdit
Early Mac OS X had no program for making ones own key maps (i.e.,
keyboard layouts), so that was why this Ukelele program was made. I
cannot immediately see any change in the current development package
Xcode (which has a decent UTF-8 text-only editor, though).
LFS
Oct 20, 2012, 6:51:56 AM10/20/12
to
On 20/10/2012 03:45, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>> The OED's most recent quote is:
>>
>> 1941 N. Coward Australia Visited iv. 25, I was fortunate to be
>> able to administer a little artificial respiration to the
>> word:— 'Cavalcade'. Before I wrote the play of that name the word
>> had fallen into disuse... Now..there are..Cavalcades of fashion,
>> Hollywood Cavalcades,..Cavalcades of practically anything that can
>> be cavalcaded.
>
> Does the film still exist? Is it perhaps the only Best Picture that
> hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
> or disk.
>
From http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cavalcade_(1933_film)?
>>
>> The OED's most recent quote is:
>>
>> 1941 N. Coward Australia Visited iv. 25, I was fortunate to be
>> able to administer a little artificial respiration to the
>> word:— 'Cavalcade'. Before I wrote the play of that name the word
>> had fallen into disuse... Now..there are..Cavalcades of fashion,
>> Hollywood Cavalcades,..Cavalcades of practically anything that can
>> be cavalcaded.
>
> Does the film still exist? Is it perhaps the only Best Picture that
> hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
> or disk.
>
The film is, at present, the only Best Picture Oscar winner not
currently available on a solitary DVD in Region 1 (with Wings released
on January 24, 2012). Cavalcade was released on DVD December 7, 2010, as
part of the three-volume "Twentieth Century Fox 75th Anniversary
Collection", a collection that sells for well over four hundred dollars.
[7] Fox has no plans to release Cavalcade separately.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 20, 2012, 7:38:44 AM10/20/12
to
On Oct 20, 6:51 am, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20/10/2012 03:45, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
> >> The OED's most recent quote is:
>
> >> 1941 N. Coward Australia Visited iv. 25, I was fortunate to be
> >> able to administer a little artificial respiration to the
> >> word: 'Cavalcade'. Before I wrote the play of that name the word
> >> had fallen into disuse... Now..there are..Cavalcades of fashion,
> >> Hollywood Cavalcades,..Cavalcades of practically anything that can
> >> be cavalcaded.
>
> > Does the film still exist? Is it perhaps the only Best Picture that
> > hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
> > or disk.
>
> Fromhttp://www.ask.com/wiki/Cavalcade_(1933_film)?
> On 20/10/2012 03:45, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>
>
> >> The OED's most recent quote is:
>
> >> 1941 N. Coward Australia Visited iv. 25, I was fortunate to be
> >> able to administer a little artificial respiration to the
> >> word: 'Cavalcade'. Before I wrote the play of that name the word
> >> had fallen into disuse... Now..there are..Cavalcades of fashion,
> >> Hollywood Cavalcades,..Cavalcades of practically anything that can
> >> be cavalcaded.
>
> > Does the film still exist? Is it perhaps the only Best Picture that
> > hasn't survived? Curious, I've been looking for it for years, on tape
> > or disk.
>
>
> The film is, at present, the only Best Picture Oscar winner not
> currently available on a solitary DVD in Region 1 (with Wings released
> on January 24, 2012). Cavalcade was released on DVD December 7, 2010, as
> part of the three-volume "Twentieth Century Fox 75th Anniversary
> Collection", a collection that sells for well over four hundred dollars.
> [7] Fox has no plans to release Cavalcade separately.
*Wings* I saw with a real orchestra playing the score that was written
> The film is, at present, the only Best Picture Oscar winner not
> currently available on a solitary DVD in Region 1 (with Wings released
> on January 24, 2012). Cavalcade was released on DVD December 7, 2010, as
> part of the three-volume "Twentieth Century Fox 75th Anniversary
> Collection", a collection that sells for well over four hundred dollars.
> [7] Fox has no plans to release Cavalcade separately.
for it -- it was one of the first programs in the auditorium of the
Harold Washington Library (the new central li9brary building in
Chicago), so it was in the early 90s.
Gary Cooper's 30-second scene made him a star. Rather like Mickey
Rourke's in *Body Heat*.
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 20, 2012, 7:47:05 AM10/20/12
to
On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> > available diacritics.
>
> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
> using the US Extended key map, the Keyboard Viewer shows all letters it
> will combine with. For example, it works with r which produces ṛ, but
> not p, which just results in .p.
That's odd. When I type one of the Combining Diacritics, Word (or
> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> > available diacritics.
>
> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
> using the US Extended key map, the Keyboard Viewer shows all letters it
> will combine with. For example, it works with r which produces ṛ, but
> not p, which just results in .p.
Office?) knows to substitute the unit character if it exists; if it
does not exist, then it simply displays the diacritic centered under
or over the letter.
> > .When I had to switch to PC, I was astonished
> > that there wasn't a uniform keying for the accented letters in every
> > app.
>
> On Mac, it depends only on the key map. For example, the Swedish Pro
> does not have underdot.
> > In Word, I've made what must be several hundred custom key assignments
> > for all the phonetic and accented letters I might ever need (and quite
> > a few I might not). It's annoying that they don't carry over even to
> > PowerPoint, so I have to use insert Character, or else type stuff in
> > Word and copy-paste into PP.
>
> You might try key maps - typing will then be the same in all
> applications. Searching for "IPA key map", gave
Well, I wouldn't want to have to try to get used to someone else's
keyings.
Oh. No. With Keyman, you have to switch keyboards to use them. That's
ok when switching scripts -- Arabic or Amharic or Devanagari use
contextual shape-changes, not a problem with a roman alphabet.
> One can also make ones own key maps, though this is time consuming. The
> same site has for Mac:
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 20, 2012, 8:11:18 AM10/20/12
to
On Oct 20, 7:47 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> > > available diacritics.
>
> > That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> > in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> > should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
Unicode has a character that places a dot under the preceding
> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> > > available diacritics.
>
> > That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> > in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> > should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
character. sometimes it doesn't display well though.
drivers or programs that remain in upper memory beforehand) to obtain
the extended ASCII characters, like left-Alt-u would produce u with an
umlaut in Turkish. some old computers made for use abroad used to even
call it the key alt-Grid
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 20, 2012, 8:21:25 AM10/20/12
to
keyboard designed for Turkish typewriters (I was told it is more
effiecient that QWERTY). the Q-keyboard is QWERTY with umlauts
relagated to other spots. the trouble I have with it is that the <I>
key gives you the Turkish undotted i and <i> has its own spot.
Hans Aberg
Oct 20, 2012, 8:58:42 AM10/20/12
to
On 2012/10/20 13:47, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
>>> available diacritics.
>>
>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>> using the US Extended key map, the Keyboard Viewer shows all letters it
>> will combine with. For example, it works with r which produces ṛ, but
>> not p, which just results in .p.
>
> That's odd. When I type one of the Combining Diacritics, Word (or
> Office?) knows to substitute the unit character if it exists; if it
> does not exist, then it simply displays the diacritic centered under
> or over the letter.
Then it is a property of your program: when a character does not exist
> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
>>> available diacritics.
>>
>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>> using the US Extended key map, the Keyboard Viewer shows all letters it
>> will combine with. For example, it works with r which produces ṛ, but
>> not p, which just results in .p.
>
> That's odd. When I type one of the Combining Diacritics, Word (or
> Office?) knows to substitute the unit character if it exists; if it
> does not exist, then it simply displays the diacritic centered under
> or over the letter.
in Unicode text-only format, it substitutes a combination in a styled
text format. It will not work if you are using a UTF-8 text only file,
though.
>>> .When I had to switch to PC, I was astonished
>>> that there wasn't a uniform keying for the accented letters in every
>>> app.
>>
>> On Mac, it depends only on the key map. For example, the Swedish Pro
>> does not have underdot.
>
> E-acute is keyed the same way in any Mac program. Not so in Windows.
key map.
>>> In Word, I've made what must be several hundred custom key assignments
>>> for all the phonetic and accented letters I might ever need (and quite
>>> a few I might not). It's annoying that they don't carry over even to
>>> PowerPoint, so I have to use insert Character, or else type stuff in
>>> Word and copy-paste into PP.
>>
>> You might try key maps - typing will then be the same in all
>> applications. Searching for "IPA key map", gave
>
> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=UniIPAKey...
>
> Well, I wouldn't want to have to try to get used to someone else's
> keyings.
> Oh. No. With Keyman, you have to switch keyboards to use them. That's
> ok when switching scripts -- Arabic or Amharic or Devanagari use
> contextual shape-changes, not a problem with a roman alphabet.
On your platform, one should be able to enter Unicode hexadecimal
directly, though it probably isn't very convenient to remembering those.
Hans Aberg
Oct 20, 2012, 9:02:52 AM10/20/12
to
On 2012/10/20 14:11, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Oct 20, 7:47 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
>>>> available diacritics.
>>
>>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
>>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
>>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>
> Unicode has a character that places a dot under the preceding
> character. sometimes it doesn't display well though.
Unicode rules are complicated: if one is using such a combining
> On Oct 20, 7:47 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
>>>> available diacritics.
>>
>>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
>>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
>>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>
> Unicode has a character that places a dot under the preceding
> character. sometimes it doesn't display well though.
character with a letter that is available as a single character, it
should be normalized. If that is not possible, I do not know exactly
what should happen. It is possible that the Mac key map just shows
combinations that can be reduced.
Tak To
Oct 20, 2012, 9:07:08 AM10/20/12
to
Try telling it to any mother. Any why just "no analgesics"?
Why not "no anesthetics"?
By any chance do you guys mean "fetus"?
Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 20, 2012, 9:22:26 AM10/20/12
to
On Oct 20, 9:02 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
> On 2012/10/20 14:11, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > On Oct 20, 7:47 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> >>>> available diacritics.
>
> >>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> >>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> >>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>
> > Unicode has a character that places a dot under the preceding
> > character. sometimes it doesn't display well though.
>
> Unicode rules are complicated: if one is using such a combining
> character with a letter that is available as a single character, it
> should be normalized. If that is not possible, I do not know exactly
AFAIK it does not. I have had the experience with the former web pages
> On 2012/10/20 14:11, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > On Oct 20, 7:47 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Oct 20, 5:06 am, Hans Aberg <haberg-n...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On 2012/10/20 04:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>>> Back when I had Macs (pre-Unicode), underdot wasn't one of the
> >>>> available diacritics.
>
> >>> That has changed with now: all is Unicode. I have used UTF-8 for years
> >>> in text files. Underdot is not available on all characters, but that
> >>> should be a Unicode limitation. If I type the underdot diacritical mark
>
> > Unicode has a character that places a dot under the preceding
> > character. sometimes it doesn't display well though.
>
> Unicode rules are complicated: if one is using such a combining
> character with a letter that is available as a single character, it
> should be normalized. If that is not possible, I do not know exactly
of Enc. of Islam II where k with an underdot UNICODE displays
correctly but some browsers don't display it correctly if it is k +
underdot
Tak To
Oct 20, 2012, 9:26:23 AM10/20/12
to
On 10/19/2012 6:47 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 19/10/12 9:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
>> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>>
>> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
>> a minor demon, do you?
>>
>
> Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
> stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
> what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
> "Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
> "Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
> names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
Rio de Janeiro.
Caravan -- roominess, adventure travel
A classical bad name for cars is the Dodge "Nova".
> On 19/10/12 9:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
>> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>>
>> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
>> a minor demon, do you?
>>
>
> Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
> stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
> what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
> "Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
> "Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
> names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
Rio de Janeiro.
Caravan -- roominess, adventure travel
A classical bad name for cars is the Dodge "Nova".
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 20, 2012, 9:32:14 AM10/20/12
to
In sci.lang Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in <c56e20b1-d1f1-43a0...@b12g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>:
OTOH you may be right.
:> what should happen. It is possible that the Mac key map just shows
:> what should happen. It is possible that the Mac key map just shows
Tak To
Oct 20, 2012, 9:39:19 AM10/20/12
to
On 10/19/2012 12:21 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 19, 10:03 am, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> Clearly you haven't come across "Closer" magazine:
>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_%28magazine%29
>>
>>> It's not clear from the description whether the title evokes "nearer"
>>> or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done."
>>
>> You seriously think that a magazine devoted to celebrity gossip would take
>> its title from a word for a high-powered businessperson?
>>
>> It's a very downmarket magazine. I sold it for two years. All of my
>> customers asked for /'kl@Us@/. Not a single one asked for /'kl@Uz@/.
>>
>> The TV commercials are pretty clear as well.
>
> A "closer", in the US business sense, is a person who is able to
> complete a sale and get the customer to "sign on the dotted line".
>
> There's no "high-powered businessman" connotation. A storm window (UK
> = double-glazing) salesman working door-to-door is a "closer" if he's
> good at getting customers to buy.
>
> In some businesses - automobile sales, for example - there will be one
> person on the floor who is the "closer". He's the one the other
> salesmen bring over when the customer shows indication of wanting to
> buy but won't commit to buy.
I don't think closer is an actual person in a car
dealership but a role that each salesperson takes
turn playing for each other. The sales people work
for commissions and are highly competitive among
themselves.
Ditto for any high-pressure sales situation --
timeshare condos for example.
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:58:27 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
>> news:4f31c18c-535f-4238...@l7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
>>
>>> On Oct 19, 10:03 am, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> Clearly you haven't come across "Closer" magazine:
>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_%28magazine%29
>>
>>> It's not clear from the description whether the title evokes "nearer"
>>> or "high-powered businessperson who gets the deal done."
>>
>> You seriously think that a magazine devoted to celebrity gossip would take
>> its title from a word for a high-powered businessperson?
>>
>> It's a very downmarket magazine. I sold it for two years. All of my
>> customers asked for /'kl@Us@/. Not a single one asked for /'kl@Uz@/.
>>
>> The TV commercials are pretty clear as well.
>
> A "closer", in the US business sense, is a person who is able to
> complete a sale and get the customer to "sign on the dotted line".
>
> There's no "high-powered businessman" connotation. A storm window (UK
> = double-glazing) salesman working door-to-door is a "closer" if he's
> good at getting customers to buy.
>
> In some businesses - automobile sales, for example - there will be one
> person on the floor who is the "closer". He's the one the other
> salesmen bring over when the customer shows indication of wanting to
> buy but won't commit to buy.
I don't think closer is an actual person in a car
dealership but a role that each salesperson takes
turn playing for each other. The sales people work
for commissions and are highly competitive among
themselves.
Ditto for any high-pressure sales situation --
timeshare condos for example.
Tak To
Oct 20, 2012, 9:48:05 AM10/20/12
to
On 10/19/2012 5:54 PM, James Hogg wrote:
In computing science there is the "convoy effect"
-- a pattern of cpu thrashing.
> Jack Campin wrote:
>>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>> A convoy is military
>>
>> There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
>> procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
>> military usages.
>
> Indeed. And don't forget the Sam Peckinpah film from 1978.
>>>> The BrE word for what the PTD idiolect calls a "caravan" is "convoy".
>>> A convoy is military
>>
>> There are OED citations for it with the meaning of a wedding or funeral
>> procession back to the early 16th century, predating any of their known
>> military usages.
>
In computing science there is the "convoy effect"
-- a pattern of cpu thrashing.
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 20, 2012, 9:51:36 AM10/20/12
to
On Oct 20, 8:11 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
first 640K RAM though, but keyboard programs were usually small. you
also had to have another TSR for the character set if it was not
included in the extended ASCII, though some computers used to have the
character set in ROM (which would cause a problem if you wanted to
switch to English). anyway I made some of these custom made for me
bymeslf using Assembly language, as well as small .com programs to
uninstall them.
tony cooper
Oct 20, 2012, 9:57:22 AM10/20/12
to
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:39:19 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
wrote:
Usually, the floor manager in a car dealership gets that position
because he's "the closer". When you negotiate for a car, in the US,
they give you a figure, you counter that figure and your salesman
takes it to the manager, the salesman returns with a counter-counter,
and so on for a number of exchanges.
I've never dealt with a floor salesman that ever took part in the
negotiation process, and I've bought a lot of cars. The salesman
always takes the counter-offer to the manager and returns with the
manager's counter to your counter.
If the exchange of counter offers stalls, the manager comes over.
You've just met the closer.
Some dealerships advertise as "no haggle" dealerships, but they still
haggle. They don't reduce the price of the car, but they will
increase the value of your trade-in or they will add accessories.
Same thing.
Years ago, I bought a new Jeep for my son. The salesman gave me a
price, I countered with a ridiculously low counter-offer, and the
salesman took that offer to the manager. He accepted it. I knew,
then, my ridiculously low counter offer wasn't low enough.
When the exchange of offers takes place just once, and the manager
doesn't come over, you know you've paid too much.
>Ditto for any high-pressure sales situation --
>timeshare condos for example.
I've never been tempted to even look at a timeshare.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
wrote:
because he's "the closer". When you negotiate for a car, in the US,
they give you a figure, you counter that figure and your salesman
takes it to the manager, the salesman returns with a counter-counter,
and so on for a number of exchanges.
I've never dealt with a floor salesman that ever took part in the
negotiation process, and I've bought a lot of cars. The salesman
always takes the counter-offer to the manager and returns with the
manager's counter to your counter.
If the exchange of counter offers stalls, the manager comes over.
You've just met the closer.
Some dealerships advertise as "no haggle" dealerships, but they still
haggle. They don't reduce the price of the car, but they will
increase the value of your trade-in or they will add accessories.
Same thing.
Years ago, I bought a new Jeep for my son. The salesman gave me a
price, I countered with a ridiculously low counter-offer, and the
salesman took that offer to the manager. He accepted it. I knew,
then, my ridiculously low counter offer wasn't low enough.
When the exchange of offers takes place just once, and the manager
doesn't come over, you know you've paid too much.
>Ditto for any high-pressure sales situation --
>timeshare condos for example.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Joachim Pense
Oct 20, 2012, 9:57:55 AM10/20/12
to
Am 20.10.2012 15:07, schrieb Tak To:
> On 10/20/2012 4:24 AM, Joachim Pense wrote:
>> Am 20.10.2012 09:01, schrieb Lanarcam:
>>
>>> They certainly do and those doctors were blinded by false
>>> litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
>>> reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
>>> infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
>>> Of course they do now.
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, that opinion was still standard around 1970.
>
> What are you guys talking about? Infants feel no pain??
> Try telling it to any mother. Any why just "no analgesics"?
> Why not "no anesthetics"?
>
> By any chance do you guys mean "fetus"?
>
Newborn children in the first couple of days after birth.
> On 10/20/2012 4:24 AM, Joachim Pense wrote:
>> Am 20.10.2012 09:01, schrieb Lanarcam:
>>
>>> They certainly do and those doctors were blinded by false
>>> litterary philosophical theories that had no link with
>>> reality. There was even once a time when doctors pretended
>>> infants didn't feel the pain and didn't use analgesics.
>>> Of course they do now.
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, that opinion was still standard around 1970.
>
> What are you guys talking about? Infants feel no pain??
> Try telling it to any mother. Any why just "no analgesics"?
> Why not "no anesthetics"?
>
> By any chance do you guys mean "fetus"?
>
Joachim
tony cooper
Oct 20, 2012, 9:59:50 AM10/20/12
to
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:26:23 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
wrote:
>On 10/19/2012 6:47 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 19/10/12 9:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
>>> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>>>
>>> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
>>> a minor demon, do you?
>>>
>>
>> Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
>> stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
>> what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
>> "Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
>> "Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
>> names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
>
>Rio de Janeiro.
>
>Caravan -- roominess, adventure travel
>
>A classical bad name for cars is the Dodge "Nova".
>
It would be a terrible move for Dodge since Chevrolet had a Nova
model. I owned one in the early 1970s.
wrote:
>On 10/19/2012 6:47 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 19/10/12 9:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Oct 19, 8:58 am, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Or, it could mean that proper names don't have meanings, even when
>>> they are identical with words that do have meanings.
>>>
>>> You don't imagine that a Ford Mustang is a horse, or an AMC Gremlin is
>>> a minor demon, do you?
>>>
>>
>> Surely we are meant to infer that one is as fast and strong as a wild
>> stallion and other is as mean as a little devil. It is hard to work out
>> what "Caravan" is intended to imply, but then my little car is called a
>> "Rio" and I haven't yet worked out the connection between "car" and
>> "Spanish river". I suppose somebody gets very well paid for finding
>> names that don't have dirty meanings in one language or another.
>
>Rio de Janeiro.
>
>Caravan -- roominess, adventure travel
>
>A classical bad name for cars is the Dodge "Nova".
>
model. I owned one in the early 1970s.
Tak To
Oct 20, 2012, 10:03:20 AM10/20/12
to
On 10/19/2012 9:26 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:58:50 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
>> On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>>>
>>>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>>>
>>>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>>>
>>>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>>>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>>>
>>> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
>>> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
>>> holiday cottage substitute.
>>
>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>
> Except for those that are not trailers!
>
> Just one example -
>
> This Winnebago LeSharo Motorhome is described in BrE as a Motor Caravan:
> http://www.lesharo.co.uk/
>
> Below the image:
>
> This is about the Winnebago LeSharo Motor Caravan.
>
> A Google search for
>
> motor caravan site:.uk
>
> will find many examples.
>
> The word "motorhome" is also used by Br caravaners/
You are right of course. I meant to say that "_many_
BrE caravans are trailers..." to add to another netter's
explanation that BrE caravans are non-mobile "mobile homes"
(maybe not the exact words...)
In any case, to summerize, BrE "caravan" covers AmE
"trailers", "RVs" (recreational vehicles), as well
as "mobile/trailer homes".
I think I first came across BrE "caravan" in a P. D.
James novel. I am pretty sure it was a trailer.
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:58:50 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
>
>> On 10/18/2012 10:46 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:56:41 -0400, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/17/2012 9:39 PM, tony cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:31:43 +0100, Dr Nick
>>>>> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>>>> I'm beginning to think perhaps it is pondian. We have friends who
>>>>>>>> are part way through re-activating part of an old farm. It doesn't
>>>>>>>> include the old farmhouse, and for the time being they live in a
>>>>>>>> caravan and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "trailer" or (fancy) "mobile home"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most definitely not in BrE.
>>>>>
>>>>> In his defense, I would say that he was providing the American terms
>>>>> for "caravan", not stating that these are the terms you would use.
>>>>>
>>>>> We do not use "caravan" to describe what you call a "caravan".
>>>>
>>>> Then why does Chrysler use "Caravan" and "Grand Caravan"
>>>> as the model names of their line of minivans[*]?
>>>
>>> Trying to determine a logical reason for vehicle names is a futile
>>> exercise. I owned a Plymouth Caravan. It was not designed to be a
>>> holiday cottage substitute.
>>
>> BrE "caravan" are trailers, some of them quite small.
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=caravan+british&tbm=isch
>>
> Except for those that are not trailers!
>
> Just one example -
>
> This Winnebago LeSharo Motorhome is described in BrE as a Motor Caravan:
> http://www.lesharo.co.uk/
>
> Below the image:
>
> This is about the Winnebago LeSharo Motor Caravan.
>
> A Google search for
>
> motor caravan site:.uk
>
> will find many examples.
>
> The word "motorhome" is also used by Br caravaners/
You are right of course. I meant to say that "_many_
BrE caravans are trailers..." to add to another netter's
explanation that BrE caravans are non-mobile "mobile homes"
(maybe not the exact words...)
In any case, to summerize, BrE "caravan" covers AmE
"trailers", "RVs" (recreational vehicles), as well
as "mobile/trailer homes".
I think I first came across BrE "caravan" in a P. D.
James novel. I am pretty sure it was a trailer.
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