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English "fell"
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anal...@hotmail.com
Oct 28, 2012, 7:19:52 PM10/28/12
to
The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
causative?
"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
causative?
Paul Madarasz
Oct 28, 2012, 7:35:09 PM10/28/12
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
<anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
Lay and lie.
--
"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue
<anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
--
"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue
Trond Engen
Oct 28, 2012, 7:57:05 PM10/28/12
to
anal...@hotmail.com:
It's ubiquitous in Germanic in general. The old causative derivational
ending *-i(j)an- was worn down but left a shift in vowel quality of the
stem and membership in a different verb class. There's a tendency that
the two verbs in each pair are confused and eventually merged, but this
is a slow process.
--
Trond Engen
ending *-i(j)an- was worn down but left a shift in vowel quality of the
stem and membership in a different verb class. There's a tendency that
the two verbs in each pair are confused and eventually merged, but this
is a slow process.
--
Trond Engen
benl...@ihug.co.nz
Oct 28, 2012, 8:55:30 PM10/28/12
to
On Oct 29, 12:35 pm, Paul Madarasz <paul.madar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "analys...@hotmail.com"
> <analys...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
Heal and whole/hale.
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "analys...@hotmail.com"
> <analys...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>
> >The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
> >"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
> >only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
> >causative?
>
> Lay and lie.
> --
>
> "One thing happened after another, and before
> we knew it, we were dead"
> -- Michael O'Donoghue
Set and sit.
> >The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
> >"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
> >only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
> >causative?
>
> Lay and lie.
> --
>
> "One thing happened after another, and before
> we knew it, we were dead"
> -- Michael O'Donoghue
Heal and whole/hale.
Brian M. Scott
Oct 28, 2012, 11:01:20 PM10/28/12
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:35:09 -0700, Paul Madarasz
<paul.m...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:v8gr88ds8k7po10n2...@4ax.com> in
sci.lang:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>> The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact
>> causative form of "fall". Is it unique or are they
>> other English/other IE examples with only a change of
>> vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>> causative?
> Lay and lie.
<Set>, causative from <sit>; <drench>, historically
causative from <drink>; <raise>, causative from <rise>.
Such pairs are ubiquitous in Germanic.
Brian
<paul.m...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:v8gr88ds8k7po10n2...@4ax.com> in
sci.lang:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>> The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact
>> causative form of "fall". Is it unique or are they
>> other English/other IE examples with only a change of
>> vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>> causative?
> Lay and lie.
causative from <drink>; <raise>, causative from <rise>.
Such pairs are ubiquitous in Germanic.
Brian
Peter T. Daniels
Oct 29, 2012, 12:02:35 AM10/29/12
to
On Oct 28, 7:55 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
> analys...@hotmail.com:
I thought the question would be about the adjective "fell." The last
time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
word stood out in that way.
> analys...@hotmail.com:
time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
word stood out in that way.
Pierre Jelenc
Oct 29, 2012, 1:58:28 AM10/29/12
to
In article <4b216e91-b25b-468c...@g4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>I thought the question would be about the adjective "fell." The last
>time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
>word stood out in that way.
He needed a signature word, and Lovecraft had dibs on "eldritch".
>
>I thought the question would be about the adjective "fell." The last
>time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
>word stood out in that way.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
Brian M. Scott
Oct 29, 2012, 2:25:08 AM10/29/12
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:02:35 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
<news:4b216e91-b25b-468c...@g4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[...]
> I thought the question would be about the adjective
> "fell." The last time I read LotR, I noticed how much
> Tolkien overused it. No other word stood out in that way.
Nor does that one to me. I suspect that for some reason you
simply got sensitized to it this time and therefore noticed
it more than on previous readings; I've noticed that this
can happen for no apparent reason.
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
<news:4b216e91-b25b-468c...@g4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[...]
> I thought the question would be about the adjective
> "fell." The last time I read LotR, I noticed how much
> Tolkien overused it. No other word stood out in that way.
simply got sensitized to it this time and therefore noticed
it more than on previous readings; I've noticed that this
can happen for no apparent reason.
anal...@hotmail.com
Oct 29, 2012, 7:56:22 AM10/29/12
to
In English, to sit / to seat : to settle, and in German, sitzen/
setzen : stehen/stellen form pairs of causatives/resultatives
Also "grow" in the transitive sense - can it be considered the
causative form of "grow" (intransitve)?
English does seem to have a regular lengthening causative form from
adjectives/nouns - lengthen, elongate, madden, gladden,sadden etc.
garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk
Oct 29, 2012, 8:42:49 AM10/29/12
to
is the causative suffix, and -iĝi the intransitiviser, and
you seldom derive both from the same verb)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
António Marques
Oct 30, 2012, 12:30:19 AM10/30/12
to
Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <4b216e91-b25b-468c...@g4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> I thought the question would be about the adjective "fell." The last
>> time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
>> word stood out in that way.
>
> He needed a signature word, and Lovecraft had dibs on "eldritch".
I don't recall any single word standing out in Lovecraft, though it's a (n
> In article <4b216e91-b25b-468c...@g4g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> I thought the question would be about the adjective "fell." The last
>> time I read LotR, I noticed how much Tolkien overused it. No other
>> word stood out in that way.
>
> He needed a signature word, and Lovecraft had dibs on "eldritch".
unrelated) fact that I've never met 'eldritch' outside him & co.
--
Sent from one of my newsreaders
António Marques
Oct 30, 2012, 12:30:21 AM10/30/12
to
António Marques
Oct 30, 2012, 12:30:26 AM10/30/12
to
adjective or the causative verb (what with all the felled trees and felled
enemies with fell faces).
pauljk
Oct 30, 2012, 2:35:25 AM10/30/12
to
"António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
news:k6nl52$32n$3...@dont-email.me...
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 30, 2012, 9:11:29 AM10/30/12
to
On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:35:05 AM UTC+1, Paul Madarasz wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>
> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>
>
>
> >The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
>
> >"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
>
> >only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>
> >causative?
>
>
>
> Lay and lie.
>
> --
This is one more example how the etymology may be unusual. English fall is related to Serbian padati, pasti (Russ, падать, упасть, Cz. padati; O.Slav. падѫ, пасти), and Russian валить 'fall' (Serb. svaliti; O. Slav. вълати сѩ) although it doesn't look like that. First, Vasmer thought that Slavic padati is a cognate of Latin pes pedis 'foot' and Gr. πώς, ποδός. Of course pedis is related to Serbian peta 'heel' (O. Slav. пѩта) and all the above words are related in the final instance, because all of them are based on the ancient *bal-hn- form (cf. Serb. obaliti se 'fall down', panuti 'to fall'.
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>
> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>
>
>
> >The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
>
> >"fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
>
> >only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>
> >causative?
>
>
>
> Lay and lie.
>
> --
As a matter of fact, all these comes out from the *(h)obl- ur-basis (round form). It is the reason why Serbian obala 'coast' is related to obaliti 'fall'.
It is distantly related: obala, obaliti, valjati se 'to turn about, walzen', wall, Serb. val 'wave', Lat, volvere 'to roll'; hence valve too and thousands of other words in different European languages (all from *hobl- 'round'.
The language evolved logically and nothing happened by chance. The Serbian verb padati 'fall' is closely related to položiti, polagati 'put down, lay down'; Russ. положить, Cz. položit, poloha 'lay, layer'). Serbian podloga and pod 'bottom, basis, foundation' contains unetymological /d/, only to differentiate this word from polog 'deposit, layer, nest egg'. From there are coming words like pod 'floor', pad 'fall',peta 'heel'.
In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau, field, Serb, poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
Brian M. Scott
Oct 30, 2012, 10:41:33 AM10/30/12
to
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 04:30:21 +0000 (UTC), António Marques
<anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in
<news:k6nl4t$32n$2...@dont-email.me> in sci.lang:
What about it?
Brian
<anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in
<news:k6nl4t$32n$2...@dont-email.me> in sci.lang:
Brian
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 30, 2012, 1:14:57 PM10/30/12
to
Stablo 'stem' is the "source" of the verbs staviti 'put on' and stajati 'stand'; but also stopiti 'merge, unite, amalgamate' and stupati 'march'. Using different vowels the meaning of the verb is changed. Sometimes there is not such drastic change in meanings and sometimes different vowels are used to make difference between imperfective and perfective verbs (for example; stapati versus stopiti, both in sense of 'fusing, merging, uniting')
Nevertheless, the initial 'st' in stablo 'stem' is very interesting and it demands a much longer analysis. In short, stablo came from the *(h)obl- basis and stablo in serbian is also cold deblo (deblo 'trunk, stem, log). Finally, deblo is in fact (h)oblo (cf. Serb. oblica 'cylinder, round log').
António Marques
Oct 30, 2012, 6:10:51 PM10/30/12
to
Dušan Vukotić <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:35:05 AM UTC+1, Paul Madarasz wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>>
>> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>>
>>
>>
>>> The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
>>
>>> "fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
>>
>>> only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>>
>>> causative?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lay and lie.
>>
>> --
>
> This is one more example how the etymology may be unusual. English fall
> is related to Serbian padati, pasti (Russ, ?040BL, C?0ABL, Cz. padati;
> On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:35:05 AM UTC+1, Paul Madarasz wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>>
>> <anal...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>>
>>
>>
>>> The verb "fell" = "cause to fall" is a very compact causative form of
>>
>>> "fall". Is it unique or are they other English/other IE examples with
>>
>>> only a change of vowel or other non-lengthening paradigms to form the
>>
>>> causative?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lay and lie.
>>
>> --
>
> This is one more example how the etymology may be unusual. English fall
> O.Slav. ?04k, ?0AB8), and Russian 20;8BL 'fall' (Serb. svaliti; O. Slav.
> 2J;0B8 Ai) although it doesn't look like that. First, Vasmer thought that
> Slavic padati is a cognate of Latin pes pedis 'foot' and Gr. ¿}¬, ¿ø¥y¬.
> Of course pedis is related to Serbian peta 'heel' (O. Slav. ?iB0) and all
> the above words are related in the final instance, because all of them
> are based on the ancient *bal-hn- form (cf. Serb. obaliti se 'fall down',
> panuti 'to fall'.
>
> As a matter of fact, all these comes out from the *(h)obl- ur-basis
> (round form). It is the reason why Serbian obala 'coast' is related to obaliti 'fall'.
>
> It is distantly related: obala, obaliti, valjati se 'to turn about,
> walzen', wall, Serb. val 'wave', Lat, volvere 'to roll'; hence valve too
> and thousands of other words in different European languages (all from *hobl- 'round'.
>
> The language evolved logically and nothing happened by chance. The
> Serbian verb padati 'fall' is closely related to polo~iti, polagati 'put
> are based on the ancient *bal-hn- form (cf. Serb. obaliti se 'fall down',
> panuti 'to fall'.
>
> As a matter of fact, all these comes out from the *(h)obl- ur-basis
> (round form). It is the reason why Serbian obala 'coast' is related to obaliti 'fall'.
>
> It is distantly related: obala, obaliti, valjati se 'to turn about,
> walzen', wall, Serb. val 'wave', Lat, volvere 'to roll'; hence valve too
> and thousands of other words in different European languages (all from *hobl- 'round'.
>
> The language evolved logically and nothing happened by chance. The
> down, lay down'; Russ. ?>;>68BL, Cz. polo~it, poloha 'lay, layer').
> Serbian podloga and pod 'bottom, basis, foundation' contains
> unetymological /d/, only to differentiate this word from polog 'deposit,
> layer, nest egg'. From there are coming words like pod 'floor', pad 'fall',peta 'heel'.
>
> In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau, field, Serb,
> poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
> unetymological /d/, only to differentiate this word from polog 'deposit,
> layer, nest egg'. From there are coming words like pod 'floor', pad 'fall',peta 'heel'.
>
> In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau, field, Serb,
> poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
Brian M. Scott
Oct 30, 2012, 11:58:44 PM10/30/12
to
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Dušan Vukotić
<dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:ba9b0b1f-b42e-4d3d...@googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[...]
> The language evolved logically and nothing happened by
> chance.
<SPLORK!!!>
[...]
> In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau,
> field, Serb, poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
there.
<dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:ba9b0b1f-b42e-4d3d...@googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[...]
> The language evolved logically and nothing happened by
> chance.
[...]
> In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau,
> field, Serb, poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
there.
pauljk
Oct 31, 2012, 2:20:19 AM10/31/12
to
"António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
news:k6pj9b$k2$1...@dont-email.me...
Is that a verse from some communist youth song?
pjk
news:k6pj9b$k2$1...@dont-email.me...
> Dušan Vukotić <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:35:05 AM UTC+1, Paul Madarasz wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>>
>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:35:05 AM UTC+1, Paul Madarasz wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "anal...@hotmail.com"
>>
pjk
Yusuf B Gursey
Oct 31, 2012, 3:29:41 AM10/31/12
to
On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
translation?
>
> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
Franz Gnaedinger
Oct 31, 2012, 4:54:59 AM10/31/12
to
On Oct 31, 4:58 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
> Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
> there.
You know that such a comment is an invitation to join
>
> Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
> there.
a discussion? Well, I never thought about the etymology
of English flat, but I would tentatively associate it with
the permutation group of POL for a fortified settlement,
often built on the flat top of a hill. PLO names the wattle
and daub technique of making walls of flat surfaces,
POL PLO a fortified settlement built in the wattle and daub
technique, also its dwellers, Old Latin poplo Latin populus
Italian popolo French peuple English people, while Latin
populus (long o) naming the poplar tree may refer to the
quick growing straight vertical branches of Populus niger
that may well have been used for the vertical elements
in the wattle and daub technque (Greek plokos for
wickerwork) while flexible willow twigs were used for
the horizontal elements. POL DOK names a fortified
settlement POL (Greek polis) built of poles, beams
and rafters DOK (Greek dokos) wherefrom German Volk
English folk, inhabitants of such a settlement. POL may
aöso account for English wall, pole, build, fell and fall -
think of the many trees that had to be felt for a woodhenge
-, and for PIE *vel- 'turn', from the practise to move felt trees,
then also big stones, on wooden rolls. English flat may be
akin to Greek platys, and to plateau, as ground of a POL PLO,
a fortified settlement built in the wattle and daub technique,
on a flat ground in elevated postition, granting an wide look
over the plain.
Could the Serbian words mentioned by Dushan fit in?
pauljk
Oct 31, 2012, 5:07:17 AM10/31/12
to
"Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
that's what I think it means.
Not quite sure about "zhitata", "zito" in West Slavic means "rye".
IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
pjk
news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, Ant�nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
>>
>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>
> translation?
Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>
>>
>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>
> translation?
Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
that's what I think it means.
Not quite sure about "zhitata", "zito" in West Slavic means "rye".
IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
pjk
pauljk
Oct 31, 2012, 5:09:49 AM10/31/12
to
"pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
And again in UTF8.
pauljk
Oct 31, 2012, 5:11:05 AM10/31/12
to
"pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>>
>>> translation?
>>
>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>
>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>> that's what I think it means.
>>
>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "žito" in West Slavic means "rye".
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>>
>>> translation?
>>
>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>
>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>> that's what I think it means.
>>
>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>>
>> pjk
>
> And again in UTF8.
and again....
>>
>> pjk
>
> And again in UTF8.
Arnaud F.
Oct 31, 2012, 5:25:12 AM10/31/12
to
That kind of wattle is mostly holes to paste mud on it...
And incidentally French daube means crap in slang.
A.
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 31, 2012, 5:52:11 AM10/31/12
to b.s...@csuohio.edu
On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:58:56 AM UTC+1, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Dušan Vukotić
>
> <> wrote in
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:11:29 -0700 (PDT), Dušan Vukotić
>
>
>
> in sci.lang:
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > The language evolved logically and nothing happened by
>
> > chance.
>
>
>
> <SPLORK!!!>
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau,
>
> > field, Serb, poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
>
>
>
> Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
>
> there.
Copy/Paste Rainy, you better stay out of this discussion. This is too complicated for your withered Brain.
>
> in sci.lang:
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > The language evolved logically and nothing happened by
>
> > chance.
>
>
>
> <SPLORK!!!>
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > In reality, round (hobl-) gave birth to flat (plateau,
>
> > field, Serb, poljana; Serb. pljosnato 'flat').
>
>
>
> Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
>
> there.
DV
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 31, 2012, 6:10:42 AM10/31/12
to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 31, 2012, 6:15:23 AM10/31/12
to
not звезтите but звездите 'stars'
Dušan Vukotić
Oct 31, 2012, 7:34:37 AM10/31/12
to
In fact, these words are closeli related to our "almighty" *(h)obl- 'round' basis ("you go round and round"). Namely, oplata, plot 'fence, hurdle' is derived from the same ancient form as obloga 'bandage, sheathing, coating'; i.e. to put something around an object, to wind or to plait around!
On the other side plateau (cf. Gr. πλάτας, πέλτον 'platform') is the same word as Serbian ploča, ploha 'plate, table': oplata/obloga 'coating, sheathing'; although that word initially depicted the round wrapping later was understood as any kind of sheath or layer which was placed above another object, doesn't matter was that object round or flat.
Of course, obloga/oblaganje (from *h/obl- 'round') 'sheathing or coating' may be different, with different material and therefore at the end we have wattle (made of branches plaited around the poles; Serb. plot, oplata), and many other plaited (bandaged) things.
DV
António Marques
Oct 31, 2012, 9:36:03 PM10/31/12
to
from some communist youth song (a number of Ladytron songs include or have
Bulgarian lyrics taken from somewhere else). How did you guess it? Some
shared imagery?
António Marques
Oct 31, 2012, 9:36:03 PM10/31/12
to
"pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>> translation?
>
> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>
> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
> that's what I think it means.
>
> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "zito" in West Slavic means "rye".
> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
I've seen 'corn fields' (in Portuguese we do have specific words for
>>
>>>
>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>> translation?
>
> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>
> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
> that's what I think it means.
>
> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "zito" in West Slavic means "rye".
> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
expanses of cereals: trigal 'wheat field', milharal 'corn field', though I
had no idea they had corn fields in Bulgaria, and I a botanist...). My
intention was precisely to see how well our resident Slavs would understand
it (afaik we have no Bulgarians here), and that you came out quite well was
gratifying.
António Marques
Oct 31, 2012, 9:36:04 PM10/31/12
to
Dušan Vukotić <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote:
You were getting me worried there.
I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
I quite like polish, though I've never managed to get very far with it. I
must admit that from what I've heard of spoken Bulgarian it doesn't sound
that Italian to me.
> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10:43 AM UTC+1, Duaan Vukoti wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
>>
>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> translation?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> that's what I think it means.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "~ito" in West Slavic means "rye".
>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
>>
>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> translation?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> that's what I think it means.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> pjk
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> And again in UTF8.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> and again....
>>
>>
>>
>> Bulgarian song: @57 3>@8B5, ?@57 ?>;OB0, ?>4 7257B8B5, 68B0B0
>>>
>>
>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> pjk
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> And again in UTF8.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> and again....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
>>
>>
>>
>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
>
> Sorry, I made a typing error:
> not 7257B8B5 but 725748B5 'stars'
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
>>
>>
>>
>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
>
> Sorry, I made a typing error:
You were getting me worried there.
I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
I quite like polish, though I've never managed to get very far with it. I
must admit that from what I've heard of spoken Bulgarian it doesn't sound
that Italian to me.
pauljk
Nov 1, 2012, 1:10:11 AM11/1/12
to
"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8079aaaf-a5cf-4658...@googlegroups.com...
markers didn't make it look like any of the "Yugoslav" languages.
I was completely wrong about the genre. It's sentiment reminded
me of some of those gung-ho-red-army-attack communist songs.
The false friend "горите" tripped me up big way. "гора" is a "forest",
not "mountain" or "worse". Even in close by Macedonian it's "mountain"
just like in most of the WS and ES languages.
pjk
pauljk
Nov 1, 2012, 1:19:42 AM11/1/12
to
"António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
news:k6sjm3$nok$1...@dont-email.me...
> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> "António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
>> news:k6pj9b$k2$1...@dont-email.me...
[...]
>> "António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
>> news:k6pj9b$k2$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>> Is that a verse from some communist youth song?
>
> Duscian is right that I took it from Discotraxxx, but aiui the whole _is_
> from some communist youth song (a number of Ladytron songs include or have
> Bulgarian lyrics taken from somewhere else). How did you guess it? Some
> shared imagery?
Yes, the imagery reminded me of a typical gung-ho sentiment
>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>
>> Is that a verse from some communist youth song?
>
> Duscian is right that I took it from Discotraxxx, but aiui the whole _is_
> from some communist youth song (a number of Ladytron songs include or have
> Bulgarian lyrics taken from somewhere else). How did you guess it? Some
> shared imagery?
repeated ad nauseam in many commie victory celebrating songs.
pjk
pauljk
Nov 1, 2012, 1:26:12 AM11/1/12
to
news:k6sjm3$nok$2...@dont-email.me...
The "false friend" gorite tripped me up. Even if I knew it was
Bulgarian, it wouldn't occur to me to consult a dictionary.
Gora is a mountain in most of the Slavic languages, but now
I find it's a forest in Bulgarian.
pjk
Bulgarian, it wouldn't occur to me to consult a dictionary.
Gora is a mountain in most of the Slavic languages, but now
I find it's a forest in Bulgarian.
pjk
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 1, 2012, 4:19:18 AM11/1/12
to
On Oct 31, 12:34 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wattle is pletar/pleter or oplata/plot in Serbian. Hence pletenje
> 'knitting', verb plesti 'knit, plait', pletenica 'pigtail' etc. In fact,
> these words are closeli related to our "almighty" *(h)obl-
> 'round' basis ("you go round and round"). Namely, oplata,
> plot 'fence, hurdle' is derived from the same ancient form
> as obloga 'bandage, sheathing, coating'; i.e. to put something
> around an object, to wind or to plait around!
>
> On the other side plateau (cf. Gr. πλάτας, πέλτον 'platform')
> is the same word as Serbian ploča, ploha 'plate, table':
> oplata/obloga 'coating, sheathing'; although that word initially
> depicted the round wrapping later was understood as any
> kind of sheath or layer which was placed above another object,
> doesn't matter was that object round or flat.
>
> Of course, obloga/oblaganje (from *h/obl- 'round') 'sheathing
> or coating' may be different, with different material and therefore
> at the end we have wattle (made of branches plaited around
> the poles; Serb. plot, oplata), and many other plaited (bandaged)
> things.
The Serbian words for wattle are nice. In English we have
>
> Wattle is pletar/pleter or oplata/plot in Serbian. Hence pletenje
> 'knitting', verb plesti 'knit, plait', pletenica 'pigtail' etc. In fact,
> these words are closeli related to our "almighty" *(h)obl-
> 'round' basis ("you go round and round"). Namely, oplata,
> plot 'fence, hurdle' is derived from the same ancient form
> as obloga 'bandage, sheathing, coating'; i.e. to put something
> around an object, to wind or to plait around!
>
> On the other side plateau (cf. Gr. πλάτας, πέλτον 'platform')
> is the same word as Serbian ploča, ploha 'plate, table':
> oplata/obloga 'coating, sheathing'; although that word initially
> depicted the round wrapping later was understood as any
> kind of sheath or layer which was placed above another object,
> doesn't matter was that object round or flat.
>
> Of course, obloga/oblaganje (from *h/obl- 'round') 'sheathing
> or coating' may be different, with different material and therefore
> at the end we have wattle (made of branches plaited around
> the poles; Serb. plot, oplata), and many other plaited (bandaged)
> things.
plaster, the mixture of clay with straw and sometimes dung,
covering the wickerwork, and, in the end, forming a flat
surface. The permutation group of POL for a fortified
settlement has six words, including LOP for the enveloping
wall, PLO for the wattle and daub technique, and OPL for
the guards, wherefrom Greek hoplitaes, an armed foot soldier.
Look at the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disc, representing
Middle Helladic Tiryns, a city guarded roundabout by soldiers
with their round shields that are a symbol of the watchful eye
of Argos, a city union of the Argolis, with a central dot and six
dots along the circle, the central dot representing the ruler
of the attentive mind CO, the six dots the guards along
the circle, the guards of the open eyes OC along the wall
LOP, together CO OC LOP wherefrom *kwekwlos 'wheel'
English wheel Sanskrit chakra, but also Cyclops and
Cyclopic wall, the most famous cyclope having been
Polyphem 'Much Famous', Homeric symbol of Troy,
his one eye the acropolis, and his body dontown Troy VIIa
that provided protected shelter for five to ten thousand people.
Also English round is related to guards who make their rounds ...
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 1, 2012, 4:38:05 AM11/1/12
to
times?
pauljk
Nov 1, 2012, 8:32:55 AM11/1/12
to
news:c4618b34-b802-4186...@j18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Well, even if they didn't, they sure had words for them.
Here the Franz's testimony neatly demonstrates, amongst other things,
the spectacular retrograde effects of morphophonemic oscillations
throughout the millennia of Magdalenian language evolution.
pjk
Here the Franz's testimony neatly demonstrates, amongst other things,
the spectacular retrograde effects of morphophonemic oscillations
throughout the millennia of Magdalenian language evolution.
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 1, 2012, 12:36:52 PM11/1/12
to
DV
Message has been deleted
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 1, 2012, 2:26:30 PM11/1/12
to
In all the cases, it seems, there are many transpositions of sounds inside the two above mentioned "proto-bases" (obl > pol > lep).
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 1, 2012, 3:11:06 PM11/1/12
to
António Marques
Nov 1, 2012, 9:45:02 PM11/1/12
to
>, but now
> I find it's a forest in Bulgarian.
across some word in a Romance language that differs in meaning from its
obvious cognates, and then I find out that it has the usual meaning in many
or most of the dialects. Of course, right now I can't recall any example.
Such semantic drift is why I maintain that semantics can't be decisive when
doing comparative linguistics. What's to keep Bulgarian's forest to move
even further away, through metaphor and association, from mountain? More to
the point, its meaning simply cannot be taken into account when determining
the phonetic history of the word. Yes, it can be easily understood - after
we have decided it is cognate with the other goras. Or take portuguese
lagarto 'lizard' from lacertus - whereas lagarta means caterpillar ()maybe
because they're green and lizards are thought of as green over here) and
nowadays it's those bands excavators have instead of tires (possibly from
Caterpillar Inc, but no one over here knows that the English word
caterpillar has anything to do with animal caterpillars).
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 2, 2012, 3:24:49 AM11/2/12
to
On Nov 1, 5:36 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do you think that there were no fortifications and walls in Magdalenian
> times? The problem might be in the way in which you understand the
> notion of "fortified settlements" and "walls".
The problem also is that Paul doesn't consider the full
>
> Do you think that there were no fortifications and walls in Magdalenian
> times? The problem might be in the way in which you understand the
> notion of "fortified settlements" and "walls".
meaning of LOP for the enveloping hedge or fence
or wall. You can fortify a camp with branches of brambles,
for example, with fallen wood, and other materials.
They had poles for making tents and huts, so they could
also make fences. Later on, these were refined as
wattle and daube constructions, turned into walls,
then walls were made more solid by using stone
instead of wood. Dolni Vestonice, in Czechia, 26,000
years old, was dubbed New York of the Stone Age,
a big camp, the houses made of mammoth bones
and tusks, covered in hides. Here the oldest figurines
of burned clay were found. You can be certain that is was
protected by some sort of hedge or fence. Isn't Paul pride
of his country and the very ancient roots in the Ice Age?
Apparently not, he makes fun of all considerations
of the Ice Age, for many years now.
As for round and guards making the rounds: English
round seems to go back to Latin rotundus 'round'
which I derive from RYT meaning spear thrower, archer,
Greek rhytaer 'archer, protector' - picture an archer on top
of a tower, shooting arrows in all directions. The flying
arrows can appear as radii emerging from a central point,
RYT accounting for Latin radius, or as spokes of a wheel,
RYT accounting for German Rad 'wheel', the flying arrows
covering a large circle, a round form, RYT accounting for
Latin rotundus and English round.
pauljk
Nov 2, 2012, 7:29:51 AM11/2/12
to
"António Marques" <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in message
news:k6sjm4$nok$3...@dont-email.me...
> Dušan Vukotić <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10:43 AM UTC+1, Duaan Vukoti wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>> news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>>> news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>>
>>>>>>> translation?
>>>
>>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>>
>>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>>>>>> that's what I think it means.
>>>>>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "~ito" in West Slavic means "rye".
>>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>>>
>>>
>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10:43 AM UTC+1, Duaan Vukoti wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>> news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>> "pauljk" <paul....@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>>> news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>>>
>>>>>>> translation?
>>>
>>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>>>
>>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
>>>>>> that's what I think it means.
>>>>>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "~ito" in West Slavic means "rye".
>>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>>>
>>>
>>> Bulgarian song: @57 3>@8B5, ?@57 ?>;OB0, ?>4 7257B8B5, 68B0B0
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
>>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
>> Sorry, I made a typing error:
>> not 7257B8B5 but 725748B5 'stars'
>
> You were getting me worried there.
> I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
> but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
Routledge's "The Slavonic Languages" (1078 pages) gives you
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
>>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
>> Sorry, I made a typing error:
>> not 7257B8B5 but 725748B5 'stars'
>
> You were getting me worried there.
> I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
> but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
a good run down on basics of all Slavonic languages including
Old and Proto Slavonic and basics of evolution of the Sl subfamilies
from the Proto-Sl.
You can pick one you fancy and read up on it in detail.
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 2, 2012, 12:19:19 PM11/2/12
to
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 2, 2012, 12:59:15 PM11/2/12
to
António Marques
Nov 2, 2012, 7:35:30 PM11/2/12
to
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 3, 2012, 4:42:48 AM11/3/12
to
> As for round and guards making the rounds: English
> round seems to go back to Latin rotundus 'round'
> which I derive from RYT meaning spear thrower, archer,
> Greek rhytaer 'archer, protector' - picture an archer on top
> of a tower, shooting arrows in all directions. The flying
> arrows can appear as radii emerging from a central point,
> RYT accounting for Latin radius, or as spokes of a wheel,
> RYT accounting for German Rad 'wheel', the flying arrows
> covering a large circle, a round form, RYT accounting for
> Latin rotundus and English round.
and in the item Ross und Reiter 'horse and rider'.
Rider, horse hoss, radius, round have then the same
origin, and are the result of semantical forkings.
In PIE, each of these words has a different root,
I guess. A model of semantic branching lacks in PIE.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 3, 2012, 10:58:33 AM11/3/12
to
In this specific case, everything seems to be starting from circle (circulate; Gr. κρίκος 'ring'; OE hring; Serb. krug 'circle, ring'; OSl. крѫгъ; Ger. Kreis kreisen); "going in circles", "going round", like cruising (Serb. kružiti 'go around', 'to circle'; cf. Serb, krenuti, kreni 'start, go away' and Eng. run (Ger. rennen; Russ. кретать).
For instance, Slavic hrt (Russ. хорт/hort 'greyhound'), appeared to be related to horse, because hrt/hort comes out as an agile animal (OHG hrutig 'swift'); compare it with the Slavic kret- (go, move).
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 3, 2012, 11:22:47 AM11/3/12
to
Arnaud F.
Nov 3, 2012, 11:43:24 AM11/3/12
to
Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 16:22:47 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> I mistyped hrutig instead of hurtig
***
>
> I mistyped hrutig instead of hurtig
You're welcome.
Problema njet, durak.
A.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 3, 2012, 11:54:44 AM11/3/12
to
In fact, it is not your fault that you are a perfect idiot.
Arnaud F.
Nov 3, 2012, 12:06:55 PM11/3/12
to
indeed, I'm not at all angry,
As you say in a lightning strike of lucidity, it's a fact that it's not your fault if you are a perfect idiot.
A.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 3, 2012, 12:44:01 PM11/3/12
to
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:06:55 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 16:54:44 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> > On Saturday, November 3, 2012 4:43:24 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 16:22:47 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >
>
> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > I mistyped hrutig instead of hurtig
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > ***
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> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > You're welcome.
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > Problema njet, durak.
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> > >
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> > > A.
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> >
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> >
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> > Don't be angry.
>
> >
>
> > In fact, it is not your fault that you are a perfect idiot.
>
>
>
> ***
>
>
>
> indeed, I'm not at all angry,
Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 16:54:44 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> > On Saturday, November 3, 2012 4:43:24 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 16:22:47 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > I mistyped hrutig instead of hurtig
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > ***
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > You're welcome.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Problema njet, durak.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > A.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Don't be angry.
>
> >
>
> > In fact, it is not your fault that you are a perfect idiot.
>
>
>
> ***
>
>
>
> indeed, I'm not at all angry,
Nevertheless, do not be worried, you'll find your company somewhere else - in some mental institution, for instance.
The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
Nov 3, 2012, 2:32:39 PM11/3/12
to
On Oct 31, 10:55 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 4:58 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
> > there.
>
> You know that such a comment is an invitation to join
> a discussion?
Come on Franz, you never needed an invitation.
> On Oct 31, 4:58 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Not quite up to Franz's standard of silliness, but getting
> > there.
>
> You know that such a comment is an invitation to join
> a discussion?
Come on Franz, you never needed an invitation.
Arnaud F.
Nov 3, 2012, 5:26:24 PM11/3/12
to
Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
>
>
> Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
***
>
> > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
>
>
> Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
Lol,
and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
A.
***
>
>
>
> Nevertheless, do not be worried, you'll find your company somewhere else
I'm afraid you're the one who is not in the right place here, untalented idiot.
You have nothing to state but your nonsense, I don't even bother give a distant look at.
A.
***
- in some mental institution, for instance.
You're just an insignificant jerk.
Contrary to some other people, like Tavi, Franz or Olcott, who are incompetent but have some kind of personality flavor, you have nothing. Just a jerk, an ersatz of rottening jellyfish stranded on nowhere.
I won't add you to my collection of world web trolls and idiots,
you do not deserve that honor.
A.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 12:19:50 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
>
>
> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> ***
>
> Lol,
> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
>
>
> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> ***
>
> Lol,
> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
pauljk
Nov 4, 2012, 1:51:10 AM11/4/12
to
news:58f21f0b-171b-4e93...@a6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get is
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
Possibly derived from dialectal ды́ня "тыква" (pumpkin) contaminated with бура́к.
AFAICT, the word is a Russian invention, i.e. etymologically not pan-Slavic.
pjk
[...]
> On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>>
>> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Lol,
>> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
:-)
>> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>>
>> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Lol,
>> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get is
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
Possibly derived from dialectal ды́ня "тыква" (pumpkin) contaminated with бура́к.
AFAICT, the word is a Russian invention, i.e. etymologically not pan-Slavic.
pjk
[...]
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 1:08:56 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 12:50 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:58f21f0b-171b-4e93...@a6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
I googled for "durak serbian" and obtained the placename, which may be
Turkish, unless there is a different etymology.
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:58f21f0b-171b-4e93...@a6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> >> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> >> ***
>
> >> Lol,
> >> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> > what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> > Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> > placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> > stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
>
> :-)
>
> It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get ishttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
>
thanks.
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> >> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> >> ***
>
> >> Lol,
> >> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> > what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> > Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> > placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> > stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
>
> :-)
>
> It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get ishttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
>
I googled for "durak serbian" and obtained the placename, which may be
Turkish, unless there is a different etymology.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 3:26:48 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 12:50 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:58f21f0b-171b-4e93...@a6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> >> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> >> ***
>
> >> Lol,
> >> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> > what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> > Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> > placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> > stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
>
> :-)
>
> It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get ishttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
>
"Ruskij nye panimay" is the phrase I best know in Russian. when I was
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 3, 5:26 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> Le samedi 3 novembre 2012 17:44:01 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> >> > > indeed, I'm not at all angry,
>
> >> > Yes you are, but as a perfect idiot you are unable to grasp it.
>
> >> ***
>
> >> Lol,
> >> and you think you can assess what I grasp, durak?
>
> > what language is "durak" and what does it mean. Googling I found some
> > Serbian ethnic Turks or Muslims surnamed "Durak" and it seems to be
> > placename in Serbia. it sounds like Turkish "durak" which means a
> > stop, a waystation, a bus or train stop.
>
> :-)
>
> It's Russian, if you google for "дурак", the first hit you get ishttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
>
in the Soviet Union I kept repeating that until Ifound somebody that
speaks Turkic.
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 4, 2012, 3:28:27 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
>
> Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
> understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
Our different approach to early language is well justified.
> understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
Several people have felt that the comparative method,
a top down approach, has to be complemented with
an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
into linguistics, semantic branching. While PIE sees
flowers on a meadow - each blossom or couple of blossoms
growing on their own stalks -, we see blooming bushes
or a tree - from a trunk to the big branches to the small
branches to the twigs and the twiglets covered in blossoms.
We don't need a root for each and every word, we see
how the semantics branched from an old word, whether
we get it wright or rong, but the general idea holds, even
if many details don't.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 3:33:37 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 3:28 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
you don't even "complement" the comparative method. you just do away
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
with causality, which Dušan does not do, att least explicitly.
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 4:02:45 AM11/4/12
to
The fact is that many Serbs of Islamic faith have the surname Durak. I think it may be descended from Turkish durak in sense of "steadfast, adamant, sedate"; Tur. dur, durağan 'constant, stable', durgun 'calm, quiet, placid', durak; but it originally might also have been coming from Skr. duroṇá 'residence , dwelling, home'(via Persian; Serb. dvorana, dvor, dvorac 'house, castle, mansion'; cf. Serb. tvoriti 'make, constitute', tvorac 'maker, creator').
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 4:29:03 AM11/4/12
to
Dursun is a quite common Turkish name "may he stay (healthy)" or if
the family had had enough children (cf. Yeter "enough" a girl's name
given after a series of female births, expressing the wish for a boy;
I know somebody with that name).
> originally might also have been coming from Skr. duroṇá 'residence , dwelling, home'(via Persian; Serb. dvorana, dvor,
Scythians, Alans etc.; related Iranian tribes even accompanied the
Bulghars) and common, "Persian" words are not (unless via Turkish or
other Turkic)
> dvorac 'house, castle, mansion'; cf. Serb. tvoriti 'make, constitute', tvorac 'maker, creator').- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 5:30:40 AM11/4/12
to
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:28:27 AM UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
>
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
>
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
>
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
>
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
>
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
>
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
>
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
>
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
>
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
>
> so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
>
> all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
>
> into linguistics, semantic branching. While PIE sees
>
> flowers on a meadow - each blossom or couple of blossoms
>
> growing on their own stalks -, we see blooming bushes
>
> or a tree - from a trunk to the big branches to the small
>
> branches to the twigs and the twiglets covered in blossoms.
>
> We don't need a root for each and every word, we see
>
> how the semantics branched from an old word, whether
>
> we get it wright or rong, but the general idea holds, even
>
> if many details don't.
Yes, I agree.
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
>
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
>
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
>
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
>
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
>
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
>
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
>
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
>
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
>
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
>
> so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
>
> all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
>
> into linguistics, semantic branching. While PIE sees
>
> flowers on a meadow - each blossom or couple of blossoms
>
> growing on their own stalks -, we see blooming bushes
>
> or a tree - from a trunk to the big branches to the small
>
> branches to the twigs and the twiglets covered in blossoms.
>
> We don't need a root for each and every word, we see
>
> how the semantics branched from an old word, whether
>
> we get it wright or rong, but the general idea holds, even
>
> if many details don't.
Arnaud F.
Nov 4, 2012, 5:43:58 AM11/4/12
to
Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 09:26:48 UTC+1, Yusuf B Gursey a écrit :
>
> "Ruskij nye panimay" is the phrase I best know in Russian. when I was
>
> in the Soviet Union I kept repeating that until Ifound somebody that
>
> speaks Turkic.
>
***
>
> "Ruskij nye panimay" is the phrase I best know in Russian. when I was
>
> in the Soviet Union I kept repeating that until Ifound somebody that
>
> speaks Turkic.
>
It should be russkiy nye panimayoo or ruskij nje panimaju
if you apply some consistency in spelling.
A.
Arnaud F.
Nov 4, 2012, 5:49:35 AM11/4/12
to
Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 09:28:27 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
>
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
>
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
>
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
>
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
>
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
***
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
>
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
>
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
>
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
>
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
>
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
There's nothing new in your (absence of) method.
Basically your "method" is a combination of peepeekakalooloo theories with a handle of "phono-primitives" with wild cut-and-paste cratylo-isodorianism.
Nothing new.
if you ever had opened a book on the history of linguistics, you'd avoid making silly claims.
A.
***
>
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
>
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
>
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
>
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
>
> so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
>
> all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
>
> into linguistics, semantic branching.
Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
A.
***
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 6:01:05 AM11/4/12
to
colloquial version. is that correct.
Arnaud F.
Nov 4, 2012, 6:02:35 AM11/4/12
to
Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 10:02:46 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
***
>
> I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
I'm not Albanian, you gypsy faggot.
A.
***
>
>
>
> The fact is that many Serbs of Islamic faith have the surname Durak. I think it may be descended from Turkish durak in sense of "steadfast, adamant, sedate"; Tur. dur, durağan 'constant, stable', durgun 'calm, quiet, placid', durak; but it originally might also have been coming from Skr. duroṇá 'residence , dwelling, home'(via Persian; Serb. dvorana, dvor, dvorac 'house, castle, mansion'; cf. Serb. tvoriti 'make, constitute', tvorac 'maker, creator').
A Serb told me Bosnyak means "stupid".
So it may not be chance coincidence that durak means "insane, idiot".
A.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 6:03:26 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 3:28 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 3:58 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
> so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
> all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
> into linguistics, semantic branching. While PIE sees
> flowers on a meadow - each blossom or couple of blossoms
> growing on their own stalks -, we see blooming bushes
> or a tree - from a trunk to the big branches to the small
> branches to the twigs and the twiglets covered in blossoms.
> We don't need a root for each and every word, we see
> how the semantics branched from an old word, whether
> we get it wright or rong, but the general idea holds, even
you go it "rong" it should be "right or wrong".
>
>
>
> > Absolutely. An enormous number of so called PIE "roots"
> > (and sound changes) is making the real problem of language
> > development invisible. Franz is right, we must start to
> > understand the way in which the words evolved one from
> > another, following the certain pattern of bound meanings.
>
> Our different approach to early language is well justified.
> Several people have felt that the comparative method,
> a top down approach, has to be complemented with
> an alternative approach, bottom up, following the arrow
> of time. We can't get everything right right from the begin,
> so a lot of brainstorming has to be done, but it is worth
> all the trouble: we introduce a new and powerful feature
> into linguistics, semantic branching. While PIE sees
> flowers on a meadow - each blossom or couple of blossoms
> growing on their own stalks -, we see blooming bushes
> or a tree - from a trunk to the big branches to the small
> branches to the twigs and the twiglets covered in blossoms.
> We don't need a root for each and every word, we see
> how the semantics branched from an old word, whether
> we get it wright or rong, but the general idea holds, even
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 7:35:43 AM11/4/12
to
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:02:35 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
> Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 10:02:46 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
>
> > I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
>
> ***
> I'm not Albanian, you gypsy faggot.
Arnaut, it is pretty sad... to be ashamed of your origin and your compatriots:
> Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 10:02:46 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
>
> > I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
>
> ***
> I'm not Albanian, you gypsy faggot.
* ARNAUT, s. m. pl. peuples d'Albanie, sur la côte orientale du golfe de Venise; ils sont errans & vagabonds. On donne aussi le nom d'Arnautes aux Albanois qui se sont fixés dans l'île de Nio, une de celles de l'Archipel.
>
> > The fact is that many Serbs of Islamic faith have the surname Durak. I think it may be descended from Turkish durak in sense of "steadfast, adamant, sedate"; Tur. dur, durağan 'constant, stable', durgun 'calm, quiet, placid', durak; but it originally might also have been coming from Skr. duroṇá 'residence , dwelling, home'(via Persian; Serb. dvorana, dvor, dvorac 'house, castle, mansion'; cf. Serb. tvoriti 'make, constitute', tvorac 'maker, creator').
> A Serb told me Bosnyak means "stupid".
And that Serb is one of your kind - an imbecile!
Bosniak (Bošnjak) or Bosnian (Bosanac) is every man born in Bosnia.
> So it may not be chance coincidence that durak means "insane, idiot".
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 8:05:36 AM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 7:35 am, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:02:35 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
> > Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 10:02:46 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> > > I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
>
> > ***
> > I'm not Albanian, you gypsy faggot.
>
> Arnaut, it is pretty sad... to be ashamed of your origin and your compatriots:
>
> * ARNAUT, s. m. pl. peuples d'Albanie, sur la côte orientale du golfe de Venise; ils sont errans & vagabonds. On donne aussi le nom d'Arnautes aux Albanois qui se sont fixés dans l'île de Nio, une de celles de l'Archipel.
>
Enc, of Islam II:
> On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:02:35 PM UTC+1, Arnaud F. wrote:
> > Le dimanche 4 novembre 2012 10:02:46 UTC+1, Dušan Vukotić a écrit :
>
> > > I wouldn't say this word is Russian "invention". There is Ukrainian дурни́й 'stupid',probably related to Serbian durenje, duriti se, na-duriti (to be angry without any rational reason, similar to this Albanian guy - Arnaut F.). On the other hand, there is the Serbian word durati 'to suffer, endure'; Lat. durum 'hard', indurare 'to harden'.
>
> > ***
> > I'm not Albanian, you gypsy faggot.
>
> Arnaut, it is pretty sad... to be ashamed of your origin and your compatriots:
>
> * ARNAUT, s. m. pl. peuples d'Albanie, sur la côte orientale du golfe de Venise; ils sont errans & vagabonds. On donne aussi le nom d'Arnautes aux Albanois qui se sont fixés dans l'île de Nio, une de celles de l'Archipel.
>
<<
᾿Αλβανοι or ᾿Αρβανίται in Greek, Arbanenses or Albanenses in Latin
and Arbanaci in Slavic sources. The Ottomans first used the Greek form
Arvanid and then its turcicised versions Arnavud and Arnawut.
>>
Arnawut should be Arnavut
>
>
> > > The fact is that many Serbs of Islamic faith have the surname Durak. I think it may be descended from Turkish durak in sense of "steadfast, adamant, sedate"; Tur. dur, durağan 'constant, stable', durgun 'calm, quiet, placid', durak; but it originally might also have been coming from Skr. duroṇá 'residence , dwelling, home'(via Persian; Serb. dvorana, dvor, dvorac 'house, castle, mansion'; cf. Serb. tvoriti 'make, constitute', tvorac 'maker, creator').
> > A Serb told me Bosnyak means "stupid".
>
> And that Serb is one of your kind - an imbecile!
>
> Bosniak (Bošnjak) or Bosnian (Bosanac) is every man born in Bosnia.
population.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 8:29:18 AM11/4/12
to
> >
>
> > > So it may not be chance coincidence that durak means "insane, idiot".
>
> >
>
> > You are still angry with yourself! I told you, stop blaming yourself, it is not your fault - stupidity is genetic.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 8:33:41 AM11/4/12
to
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 2:05:36 PM UTC+1, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
>
>
> Enc, of Islam II:
>
> ᾿Αλβανοι or ᾿Αρβανίται in Greek, Arbanenses or Albanenses in Latin
>
> and Arbanaci in Slavic sources. The Ottomans first used the Greek form
>
> Arvanid and then its turcicised versions Arnavud and Arnawut.
>
> Arnawut should be Arnavut
>
In Serbian and French Arnavut is Arnaut (like Arnaut F.)
>
>
>
> Enc, of Islam II:
>
> ᾿Αλβανοι or ᾿Αρβανίται in Greek, Arbanenses or Albanenses in Latin
>
> and Arbanaci in Slavic sources. The Ottomans first used the Greek form
>
> Arvanid and then its turcicised versions Arnavud and Arnawut.
>
> Arnawut should be Arnavut
>
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 8:39:58 AM11/4/12
to
rather than their differences. that being said, "Muslim by
nationality" was recognized for Slavic speaking Muslims by Yugoslavia
in 1971. you have that as a nationality in China for "Hui" i.e.
"Muslim" for Chinese speaking Muslims as well (distinct from "Han").
it is the only nationality in China that is not based on language.
websites currently give Montenegrin Muslims split between "Bosniak"
and "Muslim" (by nationality)
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 9:05:09 AM11/4/12
to
Arnaute fumant au nez d'un chien
Un lévrier qui n'aime pas le tabac
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr39/vukotic/2012-11-04_144447.jpg
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 10:50:41 AM11/4/12
to
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 1:24:42 PM11/4/12
to
is that *my personal choice* would rather have "Serbo-Croatian" rather
than the current Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and now it seems
Montenegrin. but that is the way they now want it so I cannot say
more.
on the ethnic side, I feel it was a good idea during Tito days of
having the option of "Yugoslav" nationality.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 1:29:59 PM11/4/12
to
(Bos,nak), though I don't think it was based entirely based on
religion, as Islamization was still in flux.
Evliya Ce,lebi, the 17th cent. traveller gives seperate information on
"Bosnian" (as well Croatian and Serbian) though he notes the mutual
intelligibility of the various Slavic idioms.
Dušan Vukotić
Nov 4, 2012, 3:43:15 PM11/4/12
to
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 7:24:43 PM UTC+1, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> let me avoid explicit politics, but it translates in linguistic terms
>
> is that *my personal choice* would rather have "Serbo-Croatian" rather
>
> than the current Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and now it seems
>
> Montenegrin. but that is the way they now want it so I cannot say
>
> more.
Although I have my reserves about the Croatian language I think the best choice for the naming of this common language would be Serbo-Croatian. Historically it is not quite true because through the centuries this "Yugo" language was called either Serbian or Slavic. But, nevertheless, we used to be accustomed to this name. I would say Serbo-Croatian was much better than inventing different names to the same language.
>
> let me avoid explicit politics, but it translates in linguistic terms
>
> is that *my personal choice* would rather have "Serbo-Croatian" rather
>
> than the current Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and now it seems
>
> Montenegrin. but that is the way they now want it so I cannot say
>
> more.
> on the ethnic side, I feel it was a good idea during Tito days of
>
> having the option of "Yugoslav" nationality.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 6:06:05 PM11/4/12
to
different if they wished to. only by recoginzing this right can you
build unity.
DKleinecke
Nov 4, 2012, 7:53:55 PM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>
We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?) but he would object.
> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>
There seems to be two kinds of semantics. The formal kind looks
useless to me - and is justly described as not part of linguistics.
But a more modest semantics seem necessary to study such things as
derivation within the lexicon and border line phenomena like the
Arabic verb forms.
pauljk
Nov 4, 2012, 8:51:01 PM11/4/12
to
"Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:644ab1c8-98f4-4207...@s12g2000vbw.googlegroups.com...
The first person declarative is "panimaju".
I'd say: Ja nje ponimaju po ruski.
However, it doesn't matter that much at all. A Russian will understand
that you are not kidding about not speaking the language.
pjk
António Marques
Nov 4, 2012, 10:15:03 PM11/4/12
to
Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Historically it is not quite true because through the centuries this
>> "Yugo" language was called either Serbian or Slavic. But, nevertheless,
>> we used to be accustomed to this name. I would say Serbo-Croatian was
>> much better than inventing different names to the same language.
>>
>>> on the ethnic side, I feel it was a good idea during Tito days of
>>
>>> having the option of "Yugoslav" nationality.
>>
>> Yes it was a noble idea.
Unfortunately, it's ideas that have to be made for people, not the reverse.
>> All those "ethnicities" (Serbs, Croats, Muslims/Bosniaks) are the same
>> people,divided along the religious lines (Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims).
Speaking the same language is not the same as being the same people. At
all.
> but remember, Tito simultaneously recognized their right to be
> different if they wished to. only by recoginzing this right can you
> build unity.
What unity do you think was built over those decades?
--
Sent from one of my newsreaders
> On Nov 4, 3:43 pm, Duaan Vukoti <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012 7:24:43 PM UTC+1, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>
>>> let me avoid explicit politics, but it translates in linguistic terms
>>
>>> is that *my personal choice* would rather have "Serbo-Croatian" rather
>>
>>> than the current Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and now it seems
>>
>>> Montenegrin. but that is the way they now want it so I cannot say
>>
>>> more.
>>
>> Although I have my reserves about the Croatian language I think the best
>> choice for the naming of this common language would be Serbo-Croatian.
Have I mentioned I quite like 'Yugoslav(ian)' for the language?
>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012 7:24:43 PM UTC+1, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>
>>> let me avoid explicit politics, but it translates in linguistic terms
>>
>>> is that *my personal choice* would rather have "Serbo-Croatian" rather
>>
>>> than the current Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and now it seems
>>
>>> Montenegrin. but that is the way they now want it so I cannot say
>>
>>> more.
>>
>> Although I have my reserves about the Croatian language I think the best
>> choice for the naming of this common language would be Serbo-Croatian.
>> Historically it is not quite true because through the centuries this
>> "Yugo" language was called either Serbian or Slavic. But, nevertheless,
>> we used to be accustomed to this name. I would say Serbo-Croatian was
>> much better than inventing different names to the same language.
>>
>>> on the ethnic side, I feel it was a good idea during Tito days of
>>
>>> having the option of "Yugoslav" nationality.
>>
>> Yes it was a noble idea.
>> All those "ethnicities" (Serbs, Croats, Muslims/Bosniaks) are the same
>> people,divided along the religious lines (Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims).
all.
> but remember, Tito simultaneously recognized their right to be
> different if they wished to. only by recoginzing this right can you
> build unity.
--
Sent from one of my newsreaders
António Marques
Nov 4, 2012, 10:15:04 PM11/4/12
to
DKleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>>
>
> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>>
>
> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
a couple of lines from them.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2012, 10:33:58 PM11/4/12
to
On Nov 4, 10:15 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
it is unfortunate that centrifugal forces took over, but that is a
long, political story.
long, political story.
Nathan Sanders
Nov 4, 2012, 9:52:12 PM11/4/12
to
In article <k77avo$42u$3...@dont-email.me>,
Sorry, I'm here and fine. The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
it was hard enough to disrupt travel. I was in Georgia for my high
school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
back on my originally scheduled flight. So I've been busy the past
week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
was gone.
I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
been able to post as much here.
Thanks for the concern, though!
Nathan
--
Department of Linguistics
Swarthmore College
http://sanders.phonologist.org/
it was hard enough to disrupt travel. I was in Georgia for my high
school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
back on my originally scheduled flight. So I've been busy the past
week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
was gone.
I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
been able to post as much here.
Thanks for the concern, though!
Nathan
--
Department of Linguistics
Swarthmore College
http://sanders.phonologist.org/
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 5, 2012, 3:18:39 AM11/5/12
to
On Nov 4, 11:30 am, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree.
And by the fury that new approach causes
we can tell how important our new way
of looking out for semantical branching is.
>
> Yes, I agree.
And by the fury that new approach causes
we can tell how important our new way
of looking out for semantical branching is.
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 5, 2012, 4:21:26 AM11/5/12
to
On Nov 5, 9:18 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
exhaustion, immense intelligence is wasted on
perfection of perfection of perfection, for example
epicycles of epicycles of epicycles in Ptolemaic
astronomy, or the geometry of the needle arm in
gramophones in the 1970s. Then came CD and
CD player, and all the tedious discussions were over.
The transition to modern astronomy was not so easy.
Ptolemaic astronomy provided better results than
Copernicus, but this one paved the way for Kepler
who got it right, planets travel along ellipses ...
The heliocentric model caused a lot of fury, it was
dangerous to follow Copernicus and Kepler.
All those who had invested a lot of time and energy
in the complicated old ways felt menaced by the
new ones. You can see the same sort of fury in
sci.lang. Interestingly, modern astronomy, with
Einstein and the NASA, returned to the Ptolemaic
model, however, on a far higher level achieved
by temporarily abandoning the Ptolemaic model.
The same will happen, I dare predict, with PIE
and our alternative approach to early language
that includes and builds on semantic branching.
> On Nov 4, 11:30 am, Du¹an Vukotiæ <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I agree.
>
> And by the fury that new approach causes
> we can tell how important our new way
> of looking out for semantical branching is.
Why the fury? When a prevailing paradigm reaches
>
> > Yes, I agree.
>
> And by the fury that new approach causes
> we can tell how important our new way
> of looking out for semantical branching is.
exhaustion, immense intelligence is wasted on
perfection of perfection of perfection, for example
epicycles of epicycles of epicycles in Ptolemaic
astronomy, or the geometry of the needle arm in
gramophones in the 1970s. Then came CD and
CD player, and all the tedious discussions were over.
The transition to modern astronomy was not so easy.
Ptolemaic astronomy provided better results than
Copernicus, but this one paved the way for Kepler
who got it right, planets travel along ellipses ...
The heliocentric model caused a lot of fury, it was
dangerous to follow Copernicus and Kepler.
All those who had invested a lot of time and energy
in the complicated old ways felt menaced by the
new ones. You can see the same sort of fury in
sci.lang. Interestingly, modern astronomy, with
Einstein and the NASA, returned to the Ptolemaic
model, however, on a far higher level achieved
by temporarily abandoning the Ptolemaic model.
The same will happen, I dare predict, with PIE
and our alternative approach to early language
that includes and builds on semantic branching.
benl...@ihug.co.nz
Nov 5, 2012, 4:44:56 AM11/5/12
to
On Nov 5, 3:52 pm, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Hey Nathan, good to have you back and undamaged.
So...what do Georgians think of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo?
Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
Ross
> In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
So...what do Georgians think of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo?
Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
Ross
DKleinecke
Nov 5, 2012, 9:57:49 PM11/5/12
to
On Nov 4, 6:52 pm, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
> In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
António Marques
Nov 5, 2012, 10:08:31 PM11/5/12
to
Nathan Sanders <san...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <k77avo$42u$3...@dont-email.me>,
> António Marques <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
>> DKleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
>>
>> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
>> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
>> a couple of lines from them.
>
> Sorry, I'm here and fine.
That's very nice to know.
> In article <k77avo$42u$3...@dont-email.me>,
> António Marques <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
>> DKleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
>>
>> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
>> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
>> a couple of lines from them.
>
> Sorry, I'm here and fine.
> The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
> it was hard enough to disrupt travel. I was in Georgia for my high
> school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
> back on my originally scheduled flight. So I've been busy the past
> week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
> was gone.
>
> I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
> been able to post as much here.
Yet still finding time to meet with old friends...
> Thanks for the concern, though!
>
> Nathan
--
Franz Gnaedinger
Nov 6, 2012, 2:29:14 AM11/6/12
to
On Nov 5, 10:44 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
Is that a question of voting? What about de Saussure?
>
> Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
And what about semantic branching? A model of that
is missing in linguistics.
Nathan Sanders
Nov 6, 2012, 2:16:15 PM11/6/12
to
In article <k79uvf$1hn$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Yet still finding time to meet with old friends...
Yes, the reunion was really nice. There were friends who I was fairly
close to in high school, but hadn't seen in person since graduation.
We've stayed in touch via Facebook, but that's just not the same.
Ant�nio Marques <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> Nathan Sanders <san...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <k77avo$42u$3...@dont-email.me>,
> Nathan Sanders <san...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <k77avo$42u$3...@dont-email.me>,
> > Ant�nio Marques <anton...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> >
> >> DKleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
> >>
> >> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> >> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
> >> a couple of lines from them.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm here and fine.
>
> That's very nice to know.
>
> > The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
> > it was hard enough to disrupt travel. I was in Georgia for my high
> > school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
> > back on my originally scheduled flight. So I've been busy the past
> > week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
> > was gone.
> >
> > I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
> > been able to post as much here.
>
> It's also nice to know others have lots of work to do as well! :)
It's not so nice for me!
> >
> >> DKleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
> >>
> >> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> >> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
> >> a couple of lines from them.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm here and fine.
>
> That's very nice to know.
>
> > The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
> > it was hard enough to disrupt travel. I was in Georgia for my high
> > school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
> > back on my originally scheduled flight. So I've been busy the past
> > week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
> > was gone.
> >
> > I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
> > been able to post as much here.
>
> It's also nice to know others have lots of work to do as well! :)
> Yet still finding time to meet with old friends...
close to in high school, but hadn't seen in person since graduation.
We've stayed in touch via Facebook, but that's just not the same.
Nathan Sanders
Nov 6, 2012, 3:00:27 PM11/6/12
to
In article
<9bb169cb-58f8-487c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
> So...what do Georgians think of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo?
Ha! I think most of them despise as much as the rest of us do. I'll
have to ask my family next time I'm in town.
> Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
Agreed.
<9bb169cb-58f8-487c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
"benl...@ihug.co.nz" <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 3:52�pm, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> > �Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> >
> > > DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
> >
> > > > We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
> >
> > > I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> > > contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would
> > > welcome
> > > a couple of lines from them.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm here and fine. �The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
> > it was hard enough to disrupt travel. �I was in Georgia for my high
> > school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
> > back on my originally scheduled flight. �So I've been busy the past
> > week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
> > was gone.
> >
> > I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
> > been able to post as much here.
> >
> > Thanks for the concern, though!
>
> On Nov 5, 3:52�pm, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <k77avo$42...@dont-email.me>,
> > �Ant nio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> >
> > > DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
> >
> > > > We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
> >
> > > I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> > > contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would
> > > welcome
> > > a couple of lines from them.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm here and fine. �The Philly area wasn't hit very hard, but
> > it was hard enough to disrupt travel. �I was in Georgia for my high
> > school reunion the weekend right before Sandy hit, and I couldn't fly
> > back on my originally scheduled flight. �So I've been busy the past
> > week with travel and catching up on work I didn't get to do while I
> > was gone.
> >
> > I'm back now, but this has been a pretty busy semester, so I haven't
> > been able to post as much here.
> >
> > Thanks for the concern, though!
>
> Hey Nathan, good to have you back and undamaged.
Thanks!
> So...what do Georgians think of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo?
have to ask my family next time I'm in town.
> Oh btw for my vote: Semantics is part of linguistics.
António Marques
Nov 6, 2012, 4:47:54 PM11/6/12
to
wrote something on the 30th, but...)
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 6, 2012, 6:14:46 PM11/6/12
to
On Nov 2, 6:35 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> > "António Marques" <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote in messagenews:k6sjm4$nok$3...@dont-email.me...
> >> Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10:43 AM UTC+1, Duaan Vukoti wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
> >>>>> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message >>>>
> >>>>>news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message >>>>>
> >>>>>>news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>
> >>>>>>>> translation?
>
> >>>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>
> >>>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
> >>>>>>> that's what I think it means.
> >>>>>>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "~ito" in West Slavic means "rye".
> >>>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>
> >>>> Bulgarian song: @57 3>@8B5, ?@57 ?>;OB0, ?>4 7257B8B5, 68B0B0
> >>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
> >>>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
> >>> Sorry, I made a typing error:
> >>> not 7257B8B5 but 725748B5 'stars'
>
> >> You were getting me worried there.
> >> I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
> >> but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
>
> > Routledge's "The Slavonic Languages" (1078 pages) gives you
> > a good run down on basics of all Slavonic languages including
> > Old and Proto Slavonic and basics of evolution of the Sl subfamilies
> > from the Proto-Sl.
>
> > You can pick one you fancy and read up on it in detail.
>
> You know what? That's actually a very nice idea. Thank you.
Also, the Cambridge Green book on Slavic is now finally in paperback
-- it's not an edited volume, and the other single-author IE books in
the series have been rather odd (Romance, Germanic).
Wouldn't Russian have the richest literature, hands-down?
> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> > "António Marques" <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote in messagenews:k6sjm4$nok$3...@dont-email.me...
> >> Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10:43 AM UTC+1, Duaan Vukoti wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:11:00 AM UTC+1, pauljk wrote:
> >>>>> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message >>>>
> >>>>>news:k6qpsm$kq4$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>> "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message >>>>>
> >>>>>>news:k6qpnt$k2a$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>>> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:e037472b-0059-4ad3...@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 6:10 pm, AntÛnio Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Prez gorite, prez poljata, pod zvezdita nad zhitata.
>
> >>>>>>>> translation?
>
> >>>>>>> Over the mountains, over the plains, under the stars, above the fields.
>
> >>>>>>> Even though I am not sure exactly which South or East Slav language it is,
> >>>>>>> that's what I think it means.
> >>>>>>> Not quite sure about "zhitata", "~ito" in West Slavic means "rye".
> >>>>>>> IIRC, in SS it's something more generic like "fields".
>
> >>>> Bulgarian song: @57 3>@8B5, ?@57 ?>;OB0, ?>4 7257B8B5, 68B0B0
> >>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKsxbrGR8ok
> >>>> Through the woods, across the fields, under the stars, above the corn-fields
> >>> Sorry, I made a typing error:
> >>> not 7257B8B5 but 725748B5 'stars'
>
> >> You were getting me worried there.
> >> I'd like to learn the basics of some Slavic language written in Cyrillic,
> >> but I don't know which one to choose. Any advice?
>
> > Routledge's "The Slavonic Languages" (1078 pages) gives you
> > a good run down on basics of all Slavonic languages including
> > Old and Proto Slavonic and basics of evolution of the Sl subfamilies
> > from the Proto-Sl.
>
> > You can pick one you fancy and read up on it in detail.
>
> You know what? That's actually a very nice idea. Thank you.
Also, the Cambridge Green book on Slavic is now finally in paperback
-- it's not an edited volume, and the other single-author IE books in
the series have been rather odd (Romance, Germanic).
Wouldn't Russian have the richest literature, hands-down?
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 6, 2012, 6:27:41 PM11/6/12
to
On Nov 4, 10:15 pm, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
the storm surge had ebbed) and returned at 1:12 am on Saturday 3
November, but my internet didn't come back until today -- it seems the
outage or the return caused part of my surge protector to malfunction:
precisely the four outlets on it that have "emergency battery backup"
for 10 minutes or so, so that equipment can be properly shut down when
the power fails, whreas the two outlets with "surge protector only"
were fine. The modem was plugged into one of the former, and the
printer into one of the latter so I didn't know anything was amiss
when I printed something from the laptop.
Now the two working outlets are the modem and the wireless router, and
I'll have to go get a new surge protector so I can plug in the printer
(and the desktop and monitor that I no longer use).
I am atop the southern end of the Palisades, the cliff west of the
west bank of the Hudson, so had no water damage. We had little rain
and not particularly high winds -- a few smaller limbs broke off
trees, one tree on my street is leaning at 45 degrees against its
neighbor, and a tree on a side street fell against the facade of a
house but doesn't appear to have broken either a window or a wall.
The deluged Hoboken is due east and about 30 meters lower than me.
> DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>
> > We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
>
> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
> a couple of lines from them.
My electricity stopped about 11:00 pm on Monday 29 October (_after_
> > On Nov 4, 2:49 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >> Semantics is not a part of linguistics.
>
> > We seem to have lost Nathan (to the hurricane?)
>
> I'm not so lighthearted about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about those USan
> contributors of ours who haven't said anything in a while and would welcome
> a couple of lines from them.
the storm surge had ebbed) and returned at 1:12 am on Saturday 3
November, but my internet didn't come back until today -- it seems the
outage or the return caused part of my surge protector to malfunction:
precisely the four outlets on it that have "emergency battery backup"
for 10 minutes or so, so that equipment can be properly shut down when
the power fails, whreas the two outlets with "surge protector only"
were fine. The modem was plugged into one of the former, and the
printer into one of the latter so I didn't know anything was amiss
when I printed something from the laptop.
Now the two working outlets are the modem and the wireless router, and
I'll have to go get a new surge protector so I can plug in the printer
(and the desktop and monitor that I no longer use).
I am atop the southern end of the Palisades, the cliff west of the
west bank of the Hudson, so had no water damage. We had little rain
and not particularly high winds -- a few smaller limbs broke off
trees, one tree on my street is leaning at 45 degrees against its
neighbor, and a tree on a side street fell against the facade of a
house but doesn't appear to have broken either a window or a wall.
The deluged Hoboken is due east and about 30 meters lower than me.
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