Web Images Videos Maps News Shopping Gmail more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
Message from discussion review of Greenberg Re: Nostratic
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Peter T. Daniels  
View profile  
 More options Sep 18 2004, 10:38 am
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast, sci.lang
From: "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:38:50 GMT
Local: Sat, Sep 18 2004 10:38 am
Subject: review of Greenberg Re: Nostratic

benlizross wrote:
> > Is it January 1994?  Colin Renfrew 116-123, "World Linguistic
> > Diversity"?  I'm not sure, I read the issue in 1991-94 when I was at
> > university.  It caused a horrendous stir at the time.  I read it in
> > hardcover and I didn't make a copy.  I don't know the issue but there
> > was a horrendous uproar over it so someone can find it. I am a ways away
> > from my university library now.

Renfrew's article is the idiotic one that claimed "Afroasiatic" -- of
which he knows only of Egyptian and Semitic -- originated on the north
coast of Anatolia.

> I guess I have copies of most of the articles from that period, and I
> could dig through and find it. But you have to realize that SciAm does
> not have an unimpeachable track record (I'm being very polite) with this
> kind of stuff in recent years. And your statistical figure sounds
> completely bogus -- in fact the only thing I am curious about is who
> hung out their reputation by even citing such a number?

*Language* is many years behind in publishing Book Notices, and I'm
tired of waiting for this one. I'll just Copy and Paste it from a Word
file, so the diacritics will go away, but it'll be enough for
"anti-imperialist." NB the copyright is (will be?) owned by the LSA.

Heh -- I already made a "Text" version, so maybe not too many diacritics
will go away.

> Indo-European and its closest relatives: The Eurasiatic language family, vol. 1: Grammar.
> By Joseph H. Greenberg. Stanford: Stanford University Press, 2000. Pp. xiv, 326.
> ISBN 0-8047-3812-2.
> Indo-European and its closest relatives: The Eurasiatic language family, vol. 2: Lexicon.
> By Joseph H. Greenberg. Stanford: Stanford University Press, 2002. Pp. xii, 216.
> ISBN 0-8047-4624-9.

> No one can deny that Joseph Greenberg was one of the great anthropological
> linguists of the twentieth century (W. Croft, Lg. 77 [2001]: 815–30]). Trained as an
> Africanist, his first contributions were to bring order from the chaos of African language
> classification—he insisted on eliminating appeal to speakers’ ‘racial’ characteristics in
> language grouping, and excluded typological data from consideration. (On my one meeting
> with G, introduced by C. F. Hockett after G’s LSA presidential address in Chicago in
> 1977, I asked whether his typological studies were done because of their intrinsic interest,
> or in order to clarify his genetic endeavors: emphatically the latter, he said.) The importance
> of his work on Afroasiatic languages, on typology, and on universals has never waned. But
> G was not content to wrest order from the chaos of African languages; he gradually
> englobed the entire world, and the climax of his labors is the announcement of a Eurasiatic
> superphylum containing Etruscan, Indo-European, Uralic-Yukaghir, Altaic, Korean-
> Japanese-Ainu, Gilyak, Chukotian, and Eskimo-Aleut.
> G’s African results were published between 1949 and 1954, in articles reprinted
> with revisions in 1955. Not until 1959 did he hit upon what would later be called ‘mass
> comparison’, and the ensuing reduction from 12 African language families to 4 phyla
> (presented in the 1963 Languages of Africa) is increasingly questioned as specialists
> acquire further data (neither Nilo-Saharan nor Khoisan seems likely to survive intense
> scrutiny). ‘The Indo-Pacific hypothesis’ (Current trends in linguistics 8 [1971]: 808–71)
> sank virtually without a trace (R. Blust, Lg. 54 [1978]: 475–77, anticipated most types of
> criticism that would be leveled a decade later), but then the eagerly awaited Language in the
> Americas (1987, adumbrated as early as 1953 and 1960) was delivered into the hands of
> Americanists, and their critique was devastating. Aside from the notorious ‘should be
> shouted down’ (Current Anthropology 27 [1986]: 488), with its evocation of the
> censorious reaction to Immanuel Velikovsky that undeservedly turned him into a media
> star in 1951, which has been quoted ever since to ‘prove’ that professional linguists are
> hostile to exciting new ideas, a panel spread over several numbers of the International
> Journal of American Linguistics 58 (1992) detailed problems of methodology and of
> misinterpreted data. G’s reply (IJAL 62 [1996]: 131–64; similarly those in CA 27: 492f.,
> 28 [1987]: 664–66, and Lg. 65 [1989]: 107–14) defended the data but as to methodology
> mostly referred to the treatment in Essays in linguistics (1957, chap. 3), which includes
> probably the first of many irrelevant invocations of the discovery of Indo-European as the
> pattern for mass comparison. G never came to terms with the fact that IE is unique among
> the world’s language phyla in the shallowness of its branching and the depth of its
> attestation over multiple families. No other phylum has the luxury of such ancient diversity
> as Hittite, Vedic and Avestan, and Mycenaean—or even Homeric, Italic, and Gothic from
> more recent centuries.
> The title of the present volumes was derived from that of Orrin W. Robinson’s Old
> English and its closest relatives: A survey of the earliest Germanic languages (Stanford,
> 1992; cf. Lg. 69 [1993]: 836–39), perhaps in an attempt to suggest its content was similar.
> This only does a disservice to the earlier book. Vol. 1, Grammar, comprises 3 chapters: 1,
> ‘The historical background’ (1–23), surveys prior ‘long-ranger’ proposals and tries to
> show that the Eurasiatic defended here isn’t all that different from the Nostratic of Illich-
> Svitych and his Moscow school, despite G’s exclusion of Afroasiatic, Dravidian, and
> Kartvelian. 2, ‘Some aspects of the comparative phonology of Eurasiatic’ (24–60), does
> not discuss comparative phonology at all: it shows or suggests that all the branches of
> Eurasiatic had some form of vowel harmony. These harmonies are of various types, and
> no attempt is made to show how all of them could have derived from some common
> ancestor; and is not the presence of vowel harmony one of those ‘typological criteria’
> whose ‘exclusion’ G called ‘central’ (Word 45 [1994]: 24)? 3, ‘Grammatical evidence for
> Eurasiatic’ (61–239), discusses, in less than one to a few pages each, 72 putative
> morphemes found in more than one branch (the last few occurring in Altaic only). Again,
> there is no attempt to display any coherent paradigms, nor any attempt at showing their
> development through the millennia.
> Vol. 2, Lexicon, offers 437 ‘etymologies’ (in alphabetical order of their glosses,
> rendering utterly otiose the ‘Semantic index’ [205–10]), ‘focus[ing] on those that involve
> languages and families that have generally been excluded from the Nostratic family’ (9);
> unlike in LIA, a ‘phonetic’ form is provided for each one. From the ‘Phonetic index’
> (211–16) the putative phonemic inventory of Eurasiatic can be extracted:
> p  t       t‘    c       k       q               i                               u
> b  d                       g                               e               o
>    s               c*                                              a
> m  n                       N
> v  r       l
> w  y                               h
> (most forms are CVC; a few consonant clusters occur). It also reveals that as many as 5
> independent etyma could have exactly the same shape (and sets of 2, 3, or 4 are frequent):
> from ter are derived Proto-Altaic(!) *t‘e¯r´u ‘dung’, *tÌa¯re ‘narrow’, *t‘era ‘hair, wool’,
> *tÌorku ‘star’, and *t‘Ìaru ‘curse’ (the first four corresponding respectively to Middle
> Korean t@¯l ‘dirty’, tj@la- ‘short’, t@lhi ‘hair’, and tal ‘moon’). Neither of these findings
> seems prima facie likely.
> Prominent at the end of vol. 1 chap. 1 is ‘The question of Etruscan’ (22f.), which
> claims ‘I have cited Etruscan grammatical elements in Chapter 3’—but I cannot find a
> single mention of Etruscan anywhere therein, and the reference list (283–311) includes not
> a single source by an Etruscanist. A total of two Etruscan forms is given in vol. 2, tul
> ‘stone’ < *tul and tur ‘give’ <  *to. Does this suffice to join an ill-understood language to a
> superphylum?
> Supposing that G is correct in his postulation of Eurasiatic and that all his data are
> impeccable, he has conspicuously failed to carry out what was previously an important part
> of his program: subgrouping language families (cf. Essays chap. 4, LIA, CA 27: 479, 28:
> 651, etc.): the 11 branches of Amerind fall into 6 groups of 1, 2, or 3—but the 8 branches
> of Eurasiatic are simply presented as coordinate. G’s previous classifications are
> publications of what others would consider the base, not the apex, of their work: suggested
> groups of languages, which might or might not be confirmed through the real work of
> comparative linguistics, the demonstration of systematic correspondences (ideally, of
> shared morphological innovations; R. Hetzron, Lingua 38 [1976]: 89–104). The Eurasiatic
> material does not achieve even the level of the Amerind.
> Also absent from these volumes are tables like the useful ones in LIA appendix C
> showing the distribution of morphemes among the ‘etymologies’. A liberal scattering of
> typos in the English prose, and the identification in the reference list of vol. 2 (196–202) of
> ‘Greenberg 2000a’ as LIA rather than as vol. 1, do not bolster confidence in the accuracy
> of the data included. [Peter T. Daniels, New York, NY]

[Larry Trask noted that I'd missed one other Etruscan cite -- it got
into the submitted version.]
--
Peter T. Daniels                       gramma...@att.net

    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google