About the name Rasputin...
Heidi Graw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin
"The name Rasputin in Russian does not mean "licentious," as is often
claimed. There is, however, a very similar Russian adjective rasputny
(??????????) which does mean "licentious" and the corresponding noun
rasputnik. There is no definite explanation of the origin of this not
uncommon surname which does not have a "disgraceful" meaning, as the
contemporary Russian writer Valentin Rasputin would be quick to explain.
There are at least two options for the root of the word. One of them is
"put' ," which means "way," "road." Close nouns are rasputye, a place where
the roads diverge or converge and rasputitsa (??????????, "muddy road
season"). Some historians argue that the name Rasputin may be a place name,
since it roughly signifies "a place where two rivers meet", which describes
the area from which the Rasputin family originates. Another possibility is
"put', " which gives rise to the verb "putat' ": "entangle" or "mix up,"
with "rasputat' " being its antonym: "detangle," "untie," "clean up a
misunderstanding," etc.
However the most well founded explanation is a standard Russian surname
derivation from the old Slavic name "Rasputa" ("Rasputko") (recorded as
early as in sixteenth century) with the meaning "ill-behaved child," the one
whose ways are against traditions or the will of parents.
It is said that Rasputin tried to have his name changed to the inconspicuous
"Novykh" after his first pilgrimage to the Holy Land ("Novykh" - from the
Russian ?????, "New" connotes to "Novice"), but that is a subject of
dispute."
My own fancy:
Considering Rasputin believed himself to be a mystic and a healer...a man of
god,
"Like many spiritually minded Russians, Rasputin spoke of salvation as
depending less on the clergy and the church than on seeking the spirit of
God within. He also maintained that sin and repentance were interdependent
and necessary to salvation."
and he considered himself a mystic healer, I'm wondering if the name
Rasputin came from a completely different language...ie. Amharic or some
other Semitic language:
"Ras" meaning head, prince, in Amharic
I couldn't find anything regarding the rest of the word "putin." However,
in German the word "putin" pertains to the colour purple or crimson.
Rasputin: Prince-purple...purple being a royal colour. Jesus was also
reported to wear a red robe.
Any other ideas?
Heidi
Harlan Messinger
> My own fancy:
>
> Considering Rasputin believed himself to be a mystic and a healer...a man of
> god,
>
> "Like many spiritually minded Russians, Rasputin spoke of salvation as
> depending less on the clergy and the church than on seeking the spirit of
> God within. He also maintained that sin and repentance were interdependent
> and necessary to salvation."
>
> and he considered himself a mystic healer, I'm wondering if the name
> Rasputin came from a completely different language...ie. Amharic or some
> other Semitic language:
>
> "Ras" meaning head, prince, in Amharic
>
> I couldn't find anything regarding the rest of the word "putin." However,
> in German the word "putin" pertains to the colour purple or crimson.
>
> Rasputin: Prince-purple...purple being a royal colour. Jesus was also
> reported to wear a red robe.
>
> Any other ideas?
Yes, my idea is that it's highly doubtful that he was playing some kind
of hybrid cross-language word game like this, and I'd be astonished if
he had any knowledge of Amharic or that particular term, Rastafarians
not being so well known in his day.
Andreas Prilop
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
>
> (??????????) which does mean "licentious" and the corresponding noun
> ...
> the roads diverge or converge and rasputitsa (??????????, "muddy road
> ...
> Russian ?????, "New" connotes to "Novice"), but that is a subject of
> ...
> Any other ideas?
Tools > Options > Send
Mail Sending Format > Plain Text Settings > Message format MIME
News Sending Format > Plain Text Settings > Message format MIME
Encode text using: None
in your newsreader^W Outlook Express.
Heidi Graw
"Andreas Prilop" <AndreasP...@trashmail.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.63.07...@s5b004.rrzn.uni-hannover.de...
Aha! I had to fix the newsreader to MIME format. Thanks!
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>"Harlan Messinger" <hmessinger...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:526qubF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Heidi Graw wrote:
>> My own fancy:
>>
>> Considering Rasputin believed himself to be a mystic and a healer...a man
>> of god,
>>
>> "Like many spiritually minded Russians, Rasputin spoke of salvation as
>> depending less on the clergy and the church than on seeking the spirit of
>> God within. He also maintained that sin and repentance were
>> interdependent and necessary to salvation."
>>
>> and he considered himself a mystic healer, I'm wondering if the name
>> Rasputin came from a completely different language...ie. Amharic or some
>> other Semitic language:
>>
>> "Ras" meaning head, prince, in Amharic
>>
>> I couldn't find anything regarding the rest of the word "putin."
>> However, in German the word "putin" pertains to the colour purple or
>> crimson.
>>
>> Rasputin: Prince-purple...purple being a royal colour. Jesus was also
>> reported to wear a red robe.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
> Harlan wrote:
> Yes, my idea is that it's highly doubtful that he was playing some kind of
> hybrid cross-language word game like this, and I'd be astonished if he had
> any knowledge of Amharic or that particular term, Rastafarians not being
> so well known in his day.
Might he have been familiar with another Semitic language, though?
I didn't mean to imply that he created a name using two languages
to form that hybrid. I did mention that I could only find a meaning for
"Ras"...head, prince in the Amharic language. Yet, I couldn't find
anything to indicate what the "putin" might mean, except for what I
found in German. Perhaps that "putin" was derived from a Semitic
language of one kind or another.
And since Rasputin thought so highly of himself, I doubt he would
have chosen a derogatory name. It is entirely possible he
thought himself a royal prince of a religious kind. And since
he did travel to the Holy Land and moved among the
Semites, I think it might be an idea to investiget the
Semitic languages for the etymology of the name
"Rasputin."
Heidi
Harlan Messinger
This all leads me to wonder how you came up with the surname "Graw".
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>Harlan wrote:
> This all leads me to wonder how you came up with the surname "Graw".
The Canadian Immigration officials misread the hand-written Grau and printed
it as Graw.
The "u" had that flourish at the end which made it look like a "w".
However, the birth-record and the baptismal record indicate "Grau." And it
turned
into "Graw" just though adoption by more and more Grau family members until
they ended up using "Graw" in common on the official marriage and
birth-records.
There was no document regarding an official name change from Grau to Graw.
It was just adopted along the way.
Heidi
Harlan Messinger
In other words, you didn't come up with it yourself and there isn't
anything about the name's origin that relates to any characteristics of
yours. That is, unless your skin is gray.
So why are you imagining there to be associations between other people's
names and their characteristics?
phog...@abo.fi
Heidi Graw wrote:
>
> My own fancy:
Spare us your fancy. Rasputin is a common Russian name, especially in
Siberia, and entirely explainable as a Russian word. You could as
well think of a fancy explanation for Smith, Jones, or Williams.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>>Heidi wrote:
>> There was no document regarding an official name change from Grau to
>> Graw.
>> It was just adopted along the way.
>
> In other words, you didn't come up with it yourself and there isn't
> anything about the name's origin that relates to any characteristics of
> yours. That is, unless your skin is gray.
> Harlan
> So why are you imagining there to be associations between other people's
> names and their characteristics?
Perhaps, long ago, a famous aging leader was nicknamed "Gray-Beard." And
on account of his fame, his son may have called himself "Son of Graybeard."
Then from there, the "son of" was dropped and just the Graybeard remained,
and from there on the beard was dropped and all that remained was the Grey.
Heidi
António Marques
You could have started off with Gandalf the Grey, then to become the
White he had to drop the Grey, and one of your grizzly bear's ancestors,
passing by (or even having been lurking in some Shadow), finding it
lying around, picked it up and etc.
--
am
laurus : rhodophyta : brethoneg : smalltalk : stargate
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
António Marques
> Might he have been familiar with another Semitic language, though?
> I didn't mean to imply that he created a name using two languages
> to form that hybrid. I did mention that I could only find a meaning for
> "Ras"...head, prince in the Amharic language. Yet, I couldn't find
> anything to indicate what the "putin" might mean, except for what I
> found in German. Perhaps that "putin" was derived from a Semitic
> language of one kind or another.
>
> And since Rasputin thought so highly of himself, I doubt he would
> have chosen a derogatory name. It is entirely possible he
> thought himself a royal prince of a religious kind. And since
> he did travel to the Holy Land and moved among the
> Semites, I think it might be an idea to investiget the
> Semitic languages for the etymology of the name
> "Rasputin."
Who knows, it might also be an idea to investigate some Hellboy comics
or such.
Harlan Messinger
>
>> Harlan
>> So why are you imagining there to be associations between other
>> people's names and their characteristics?
>
> Perhaps, long ago, a famous aging leader was nicknamed "Gray-Beard." And
> on account of his fame, his son may have called himself "Son of Graybeard."
> Then from there, the "son of" was dropped and just the Graybeard remained,
> and from there on the beard was dropped and all that remained was the Grey.
Which would mean that the origin of your name has nothing to do with
*your* personal characteristics. So I repeat: Why are you imagining
Dušan Vukotić
Rasputin is not a compound word. It is ras- prefixed 'put' (road).
Semitic 'ras' (head, chief) could be compared with Latin 'rex' (king).
The name of Russia (Россия) is a 'ras' derivative; i.e. it was derived
from the ancient HOR-GON basis (Horusi, Hrsi, Rasi, Rusi). It seems it
would be interesting to mention national names as Belorus and Prussian
(Borusi), coming from the ur-basis BEL-HOR-GON. The same basis (bel-
hor-gon) was the source of the famous name Varangians (Varyags,
Варяги, Βαραγγίων).
This Varyag name (Varangians) corresponds well with the modern words
'bourgeois' and Sebian 'varoš' (town) and 'varošanin' (city dweller,
citizen), but it also corresponds with the Serbian nouns
'borenje' (fighting) and 'borac' (fighter, combatant).
In order to understand correctly what has really happened here we must
take in account the Latin word 'abrado' (abradere, abrasi, abrasus;
scrape, scratch, erase, wipe; cf. Serb. 'obrisati' wipe) and Serbian
'obrada' (arrangement, working, production, finishing; adjective
'obrađen' finished, arranged). In fact, if we have an enough sharp
mind we shall see that the English word 'working' also was derived
from the same above Bel-Hor-Gon basis (cf. Serb. 'vršenje' /working/,
iz-vršiti /work out). In fact, the starting Bel-Hor-Gon basis was
shortened here to secondary ur-basis BR-GON (opposite driving).
There are thousands of different IE words that sprang from the Bel-Hor-
Gon basis and one of them is Latin 'bello' (bellare; wage war, fight),
which is closely related with the Serbian ‘borenje’ (fighting;
erstwhile bolrenje, boyarenje, boy/ battle; thence Russ. bolyar,
boyar, Bulgarian болярин warrior, noble). There is a wrong opinion
among modern linguists that Old Russian ‘boljarin’ originated from
Turkic baylar, pl. of bay, rich (also ‘big’ and ‘protecting spirit’;
Mongolian ‘buʒgaj’ strong); because it could have happened only vice
versa. Namely, using Turkic (and all Altaic family) languages it would
be impossible to explain the words ‘baylar’ and ‘bay’, while on the
other (Slavic) side we have a great number of words logically
interlaced as ‘bogat’ (rich), ‘bolji’ (better), ‘bolyshoy’ большой
(big!), ‘velik’ (big, large), ‘valjan’ (good, Eng. valiant!),
‘velikan’ (hero). There is Serbian saying ‘živeti kao bog’ (live like
god; bog = god), where from we can clearly see the origin of the
Serbian word ‘bogat’ (rich).
Maybe, it would be interesting to mention here the Turkic word
‘baghatur’ and Russian ‘bogatyr’ богаты́рь (warrior). Who have
borrowed (from whom) the word BOGATYR, Russian from Turkic or Turkic
from Russian (Slavic)? The Russian ‘bogatyr’ is the same word as Old
Norse ‘vikingr’, because the both above words sprang from the
“antediluvian” BEL-GON-HOR basis. Is there any serious lingua-
scientist who would dare to say that the word ‘Viking’ is a loan word
from Altaic? Of course not, because it is impossible. At the same
time, the same scientists are unable to see that Viking originated
from the same source as the Russian Bogatyr or Serbian Vitez.
The surname Rasputin stemmed from basis HOR-GON-BEL-GON (‘raspuće’ a
place where from many roads diverge). Prefix ras- (raz-, raš-) is a
Hors variation; i.e. HOR-GON. Hor/Hors is the sun divinity and the
first words were developing from this basis according to the main
characteristics of the sun: KRUG (circle, round shape of the sun),
GORENJE (flaming, glowing, fire). On the other side, HARANJE
(plundering, destruction) and GRAĐENJE (construction) were connected
to the sun (Hors) because the ancient religions ascribed all
activities on Earth to the sun divinity. Actually, the prefix ras-
came from the word ‘KRUG’ (‘kruženje’, circling, ‘grananje’
branching); so, wherever we have prefix ras- the meaning of that word
is a “going away in different direction”.
The other part of Ras-putin’s name comes from the noun PUT (road,
path!). The basis of ‘put’ is BEL-GON, the same one where the words
‘pogon’ (propulsion), ‘polaženje’ (outset), ‘poletanje’ (take off,
fly!) and the verb ‘poći’ (go, depart) appeared from. It seems
unnecessary to explain the relation of the word ‘put’ (road) with the
other, above-mentioned words. Finally, it is hard to say what the real
meaning of the surname Rasputin could be, although it is clear that it
must be something that goes away towards all sides and directions
(Serbian ‘raspući se’ burst out, explode, ‘raspeće’ crucifix,
‘rasfućkati’ (easy spending of money and estates; lose all of your
assets as if by gambling).
DV
Dušan Vukotić
When Serbs lost their latest Balkan wars, it started with the General
named Kukanjac (pusillanimous, poor-spirited) and ended with the
President of Republic Srpska - Poplašen (frightened). ;-)
DV
António Marques
> The other part of Ras-putin’s name comes from the noun PUT (road,
> path!).
I wonder if that's where portuguese puta 'whore' comes from as well.
Dušan Vukotić
> Dušan Vukotić wrote:
> > The other part of Ras-putin’s name comes from the noun PUT (road,
> > path!).
>
> I wonder if that's where portuguese puta 'whore' comes from as well.
> --
Puta is whore in spanish. Putana - slut or prostitute in Italian. Also
I think this word is used as "fuck" or "bitch" in Spain. In Serbian
there are words 'putenost' (sensuality), 'putena' (carnal) and verb
'podati se' (woman who indulges in sexual activitiy).
After "democratization" and "westernization", Serbia and other East-
European countries are full of whores standing alongside the roads
(Serb. put, puta). ;-)
DV
Heidi Graw
>"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1170272449....@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>On Jan 31, 7:14 pm, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>> Dušan Vukotić wrote:
> > The other part of Ras-putin’s name comes from the noun PUT (road,
> > path!).
>>Antonio worte:
>> I wonder if that's where portuguese puta 'whore' comes from as well.
> --
>Dusan wrote:
>Puta is whore in spanish. Putana - slut or prostitute in Italian. Also
>I think this word is used as "fuck" or "bitch" in Spain. In Serbian
>there are words 'putenost' (sensuality), 'putena' (carnal) and verb
>'podati se' (woman who indulges in sexual activitiy).
...and in German a Pute is a turkey. ;-)
>After "democratization" and "westernization", Serbia and other East-
>European countries are full of whores standing alongside the roads
>(Serb. put, puta). ;-)
Ah...so an abundance of turkeys lined up alongside the roads??? ;-)
Ras-putin...King of the Turkeys!
Hmmmm....any chances Ras-putin could be related to the turkish language?
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>Dusan wrote:
>Rasputin is not a compound word. It is ras- prefixed 'put' (road).
(snip)
>....but it also corresponds with the Serbian nouns
>'borenje' (fighting) and 'borac' (fighter, combatant).
(snip)
>...In fact, the starting Bel-Hor-Gon basis was
>shortened here to secondary ur-basis BR-GON (opposite driving).
>There are thousands of different IE words that sprang from the Bel-Hor-
>Gon basis and one of them is Latin 'bello' (bellare; wage war, fight),
(snip)
>Dusan wrote:
>The surname Rasputin stemmed from basis HOR-GON-BEL-GON (‘raspuće’ a
>place where from many roads diverge).
(snip)
>... Actually, the prefix ras- came from the word ‘KRUG’
>(‘kruženje’, circling, ‘grananje’branching); so, wherever
>we have prefix ras- the meaning of that word
>is a “going away in different direction”.
So, would it be fair to say that "Rasputin" means "He who fights
to travel a different path?"
Heidi
Yusuf B Gursey
it's fromturkic but not AFAIK from baylar
> Mongolian ‘buʒgaj’ strong); because it could have happened only vice
> versa. Namely, usingTurkic(and all Altaic family) languages it would
> be impossible to explain the words ‘baylar’ and ‘bay’, while on the
> other (Slavic) side we have a great number of words logically
> interlaced as ‘bogat’ (rich), ‘bolji’ (better), ‘bolyshoy’ большой
> (big!), ‘velik’ (big, large), ‘valjan’ (good, Eng. valiant!),
> ‘velikan’ (hero). There is Serbian saying ‘živeti kao bog’ (live like
> god; bog = god), where from we can clearly see the origin of the
> Serbian word ‘bogat’ (rich).
>
> Maybe, it would be interesting to mention here theTurkicword
> ‘baghatur’ and Russian ‘bogatyr’ богаты́рь (warrior). Who have
> borrowed (from whom) the word BOGATYR, Russian fromTurkicorTurkic
slavic from turkic.
> DV- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dušan Vukotić
> >"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
You mean Christmas TURKEY language!?
DV
Dušan Vukotić
> >"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Very good! Just like that!
DV
Dušan Vukotić
> >"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
patak (drake) while the English 'duck' looks like to be a shortened
'pa-tak'! ;-)
DV
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>>Heidi wrote:
>> So, would it be fair to say that "Rasputin" means "He who fights
>> to travel a different path?"
>>
>> Heidi
>Dusan wrote:
>Very good! Just like that!
Then I must have a little bit of Rasputin in my genetic make-up!
I tend to look at where the herd is going and I keep myself
always to the outside edge. If I believe the herd is moving
in a direction I don't want to go towards, I have an easy
escape route...I'll split off to travel a different route so I don't
end up trapped in the middle of horde where I risk being trampled
or being forced along with them to plunge over the cliff!
I do the same when I'm in the theatre. I place myself near the exist
door. One whiff of smoke and I can be out of there before the
crush of a panicky crowd has the chance to trample me to death.
Wherever I go, I'm always looking for an escape route. I don't
believe there is safety in numbers. More often than not, I'm on
a different path, doing my thing, my way, even if it turns out
to be more of a struggle. I just feel safer on the edge than
right in the middle of what could end up total mayhem.
People are too unpredictable whenever they gather as a huge
crowd.
What about you? Do you run with the herd, or do you chart
your own course?
Heidi
Paul J Kriha
news:1170307634.2...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Serbian borrowed a word and it sounds similar to the original.
How interesting! :-)
pjk
Helmut Wollmersdorfer
> This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
> duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
In German it is Pute {f}, Puter {m}, or Truthuhn {f}, Truthahn {m}, but
never "Puthahn". Maybe "Pute" has some relationship with "pavo" as the
scientific name is 'gallopavo'.
The Serbian/Croatian 'patka' is similar to the Spanish and Portuguese
'pato'. In Spanish it's also Anade, which you can compare with the Latin
(scientific) Anas, and Ente [de], önd [is], antis [lt], Eend [nl], And
[no, sv], maybe Canard [fr, C-ana-rd].
Helmut Wollmersdorfer
Heidi Graw
>"Helmut Wollmersdorfer" <hel...@wollmersdorfer.at> wrote in message
>news:eps8n3$iid$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
(snip)
> In German it is Pute {f}, Puter {m}, or Truthuhn {f}, Truthahn {m}, but
> never "Puthahn".
Are you sure about that, Helmut? My German-English Dictionary "Das
Grosse Woerterbuch" that was given to me back in 1996 claims
one can say Puthahn and Puthenne. It also gives Pute and Puter.
Heidi
Helmut Wollmersdorfer
> My German-English Dictionary "Das
> Grosse Woerterbuch" that was given to me back in 1996 claims
> one can say Puthahn and Puthenne. It also gives Pute and Puter.
You are right. Concluding from "not usual somewhere" etc. is dangerous.
Helmut Wollmersdorfer
António Marques
> I tend to look at where the herd is going and I keep myself
> always to the outside edge. If I believe the herd is moving
> in a direction I don't want to go towards, I have an easy
> escape route...I'll split off to travel a different route so I don't
> end up trapped in the middle of horde where I risk being trampled
> or being forced along with them to plunge over the cliff!
You are so shrewd, you.
Dušan Vukotić
> >"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I do not have my pack. I am a lone wolf. :-)
DV
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> Dušan Vukotic <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Serbian word 'potok' (brook); basis BEL-GON-GON; i.e. pogoniti (to
power), počinjati, pođenuti (start, begin), podignuti (lift up),
potegnuti (pull, tug), potaknuti (instigate), poteknuti, poteći (run
from, flow), potok (fleet, rain, shower, brook, river, outburst), tok
( flow, stream, process, tide, lapse, tenor).
Patka (duck), patak (drake). Patak u potoku (duck in the brook)
DV
DV
Dušan Vukotić
There is a huge number of words in Serbian that stemmed from the BEL-
GON-GON basis. One of them is 'batak' (upper part of the fowl leg); no
direct connection with 'patak' (drake). If we compared the word
(batak) with 'butina' (thigh) we would see that these two words
appeared from the same source (above POGON, POGONJENJE propulsion,
move forward).
DV
Dušan Vukotić
Dušan Vukotić
English 'potency' (Lat. potentem. potens) is the "power" of Serbian
'potegnuti'
Compare Serbian 'potok' (brook), 'piti' (drink) with the English
'potagge', 'pot' and 'potion' (Lat. potus drink) and I hope you will
be able to grasp what I am trying to tell you.
DV
Dušan Vukotić
What did you say?
Yusuf B Gursey
> > > Maybe, it would be interesting to mention here theTurkicword
> > > ‘baghatur’ and Russian ‘bogatyr’ богаты́рь (warrior). Who have
> > > borrowed (from whom) the word BOGATYR, Russian fromTurkicorTurkic
>
> > slavic from turkic.
>
> What did you say?
it's of turkic origin.
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Dušan Vukotić
> On Feb 1, 2:24 pm, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Maybe, it would be interesting to mention here theTurkicword
> > > > ‘baghatur’ and Russian ‘bogatyr’ богаты́рь (warrior). Who have
> > > > borrowed (from whom) the word BOGATYR, Russian fromTurkicorTurkic
>
> > > slavic from turkic.
>
> > What did you say?
>
> it's of turkic origin.
And 'vikingr' also?
It is easy to say. Can you explain the history of that word in Turkic
languages. please?
Paul J Kriha
news:eps8n3$iid$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
>
> > This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
> > duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
It's interesting to see other Slavic names for the turkey.
It seems, they kept borrowing from all sorts of different
directions. Russian borrowed a name of another country:
"indyuk" {m} and "indeyka" {m}. And the Czech names are
"krocan" {m}, "krúta" {f}, and "krútě" {n}.
Do the Czech turkies sound like "krút krút krút"
while the German ones go "trut trut trut"? :-)
Americans, please note, your turkies are quite different
birds from the European ones so their calls are likely
to sound completely different.
pjk
Paul J Kriha
My Oxford German Dictionary agrees with Helmut.
And my Thieme Preusser from 1909 does too.
pjk
Nikolaj
> Helmut Wollmersdorfer <hel...@wollmersdorfer.at> wrote in message
> news:eps8n3$iid$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
>> Dušan Vukotić wrote:
>>
>>> This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
>>> duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
>
> It's interesting to see other Slavic names for the turkey.
> It seems, they kept borrowing from all sorts of different
> directions. Russian borrowed a name of another country:
> "indyuk" {m} and "indeyka" {m}. And the Czech names are
> "krocan" {m}, "krúta" {f}, and "krútě" {n}.
>
> Do the Czech turkies sound like "krút krút krút"
> while the German ones go "trut trut trut"? :-)
>
> Americans, please note, your turkies are quite different
> birds from the European ones so their calls are likely
> to sound completely different.
>
> pjk
In Slovene duck/drake is "raca (f)/racak or racman (m)". Turkey is
called "puran (m)/pura(f), purica(f - diminutive)" (and the birds sound
"pur pur"?)
Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
"misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
On one site someone wrote that is also has a Sanskrit cognate, but I
haven't found it yet.
Nikolaj
> Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
> "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
A nice link about the word turkey in various languages:
http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/7/7-174.html
MACEDONIAN
In Macedonian [Slavic] it is misir m., misirka f., from Misir [the
letters i should have no dots on top] (the Turkish name of Egypt) from
Arabic Misr.
António Marques
> It's interesting to see other Slavic names for the turkey.
> It seems, they kept borrowing from all sorts of different
> directions. Russian borrowed a name of another country:
> "indyuk" {m} and "indeyka" {m}. And the Czech names are
> "krocan" {m}, "krúta" {f}, and "krútě" {n}.
>
> Do the Czech turkies sound like "krút krút krút"
> while the German ones go "trut trut trut"? :-)
>
> Americans, please note, your turkies are quite different
> birds from the European ones so their calls are likely
> to sound completely different.
And turkey in portuguese is peru.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Feb 1, 10:47 pm, "Yusuf BGursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 1, 2:24 pm, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Maybe, it would be interesting to mention here theTurkicword
> > > > > ‘baghatur’ and Russian ‘bogatyr’ богаты́рь (warrior). Who have
> > > > > borrowed (from whom) the word BOGATYR, Russian fromTurkicorTurkic
>
> > > > slavic from turkic.
>
> > > What did you say?
>
> > it's of turkic origin.
>
> And 'vikingr' also?
no.
> It is easy to say. Can you explain the history of that word in Turkic
> languages. please?
>
>
it's found in Old and middle turkic and middle mongolian, ruling out
borrowingf from slavic.
Dušan Vukotić
>
> > > > > slavic from turkic.
>
> > > > What did you say?
>
> > > it's of turkic origin.
>
> > And 'vikingr' also?
>
> no.
>
> > It is easy to say. Can you explain the history of that word in Turkic
> > languages. please?
>
> it's found in Old and middle turkic and middle mongolian, ruling out
> borrowingf from slavic.
>
It rules out nothing. What is the history of that word in Turkic?
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Feb 2, 7:25 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > slavic fromturkic.
>
> > > > > What did you say?
>
> > > > it's ofturkicorigin.
>
> > > And 'vikingr' also?
>
> > no.
>
> > > It is easy to say. Can you explain the history of that word inTurkic
> > > languages. please?
>
> > borrowingf from slavic.
>
> It rules out nothing. What is the history of that word inTurkic?
it is impossible to have slavic words in asian turkic and mongolian at
those centuries.
Dušan Vukotić
I am not asking you what is possible or impossible, I am asking you to
present the history of the word 'bogatyr' in Turkic. Can you do it or
not?
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
that is the crux of the argument.
> present the history of the word 'bogatyr' in Turkic. Can you do it or
> not?
>
further history of turkic is unknown.
Douglas G. Kilday
>
> [...]
>
> I do the same when I'm in the theatre. I place myself near the exist
> door. One whiff of smoke and I can be out of there before the
> crush of a panicky crowd has the chance to trample me to death.
You go out the exist door? How do you get back into existence then?
Heidi Graw
>"Douglas G. Kilday" <fuf...@chorus.net> wrote in message
>news:1170628474.2...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> "Heidi Graw" wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I do the same when I'm in the theatre. I place myself near the exist
>> door. One whiff of smoke and I can be out of there before the
>> crush of a panicky crowd has the chance to trample me to death.
> Douglas wrote:
> You go out the exist door? How do you get back into existence then?
<chuckle>...a spelling mistake! I meant to write exit! ;-)
Heidi
Paul J Kriha
> Paul J Kriha pravi:
> > Helmut Wollmersdorfer <hel...@wollmersdorfer.at> wrote in message
> > news:eps8n3$iid$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
> >> Dušan Vukotić wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
> >>> duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
> >
> > It's interesting to see other Slavic names for the turkey.
> > It seems, they kept borrowing from all sorts of different
> > directions. Russian borrowed a name of another country:
> > "indyuk" {m} and "indeyka" {m}. And the Czech names are
> > "krocan" {m}, "krúta" {f}, and "krútě" {n}.
> >
> > Do the Czech turkies sound like "krút krút krút"
> > while the German ones go "trut trut trut"? :-)
> >
> > Americans, please note, your turkies are quite different
> > birds from the European ones so their calls are likely
> > to sound completely different.
> >
> > pjk
>
> In Slovene duck/drake is "raca (f)/racak or racman (m)". Turkey is
> called "puran (m)/pura(f), purica(f - diminutive)" (and the birds sound
> "pur pur"?)
>
> Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
> "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
Nice one, I presume "misir" was borrowed from Turkish
word for "Egypt". One shouldn't expect Turks to call this
bird a turkey.
> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
In WSl "kur" is a general term for "fowl" or "poultry".
Cz "kuře" is "chicken".
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
>
> > Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
> > "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
>
> Nice one, I presume "misir" was borrowed from Turkish
> word for "Egypt".
Misir is Semitic word. Hebrew 'matsor' (Egypt, fortress). Interesting,
the Serbian surname Macura might somehow be connected with matsor and
misir; also Mosor, mountain on the Adriatic, above Split; and Mostar;
possible from 'most' (bridge) or from 'mesto' (place), 'umestiti', 'na-
mestiti' (make), 'majstor' (craftsman, master); master Mizraim (!?);
Nothing serious, just guessing ;-)
DV
Paul J Kriha
news:1170918434....@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 8, 6:39 am, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
>wrote:
>
>> > Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
>> > "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
>>
>> Nice one, I presume "misir" was borrowed from Turkish
>> word for "Egypt".
>
>Misir is Semitic word.
So, are you telling me that Maşrمصر (Egyptian Arabic),
Mesir (Indonesian, Malay), Mısır (Turkish),
Mişr - مصر (Standard Arabic, Urdu, Persian), Misr (Hindi),
and Mitsroim - מצרים (Yiddish) are all borrowings from
Mitsrayim - מצרים (Hebrew)?
I don't really know, I am just asking.
However, be it as it may, and all things being equal,
no matter where Turkish got it from, what's wrong
with my saying:
"I presume 'misir' was borrowed from Turkish 'Mısır' (Egypt)."
Where else would Macedonian be more likely to have got it from?
>Hebrew 'matsor' (Egypt, fortress). Interesting,
>the Serbian surname Macura might somehow be connected with matsor and
>misir; also Mosor, mountain on the Adriatic, above Split; and Mostar;
>possible from 'most' (bridge) or from 'mesto' (place), 'umestiti', 'na-
>mestiti' (make), 'majstor' (craftsman, master); master Mizraim (!?);
Yeah, right!
pjk
Nikolaj
Paul J Kriha pravi:
>> Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
>> "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
>
> Nice one, I presume "misir" was borrowed from Turkish
> word for "Egypt". One shouldn't expect Turks to call this
> bird a turkey.
It seems so, yes (as that page said that I posted separately).
And you even posted the word in Turkish without the dots on i (Mısır)!!!
And it seems that Turkish 'turkey' is called 'hindi', how funny is that
(from the same page):
Turkey in Turkish is 'Hindi'. My etymology book says that it is named
after Hindistan, the Turkish name for India. Hindistan is usually
shortened to Hind. so it's Hindistan->Hind->Hindi. It also mentions that
we got the bird from India, after having exported to East Asia from
America. the source is:Turk Dilinin Etimoloji Sozlugu [The etymology of
the Turkish LAnguage], I.Z. Eyuboglu, Sosyal Yayinlari (publisher),
Istanbul, 1991, 2nd edition.)
>> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
>> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
>> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
>> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
>
> In WSl "kur" is a general term for "fowl" or "poultry".
> Cz "kuře" is "chicken".
So then the literary word is South-Slavic, but colloquially we still use
the WSl form for 'chicken' only ('poultry' is 'perutnina' - 'perut'
means 'wing').
In Slovene there are sometimes large similarities to WSl. I have read in
a grammar that most northern Slovene dialects still use the WSl prefix
vy- instead of SSl -iz (dialects in Austria - they were isolated from
the rest of Slovene speakes by an Alpine mountain range Karavanke).
Also one blogger (an American who married to Slovenia) has a category of
Slovenia-Slovakia mixups - that happens in all fields of life.
Particularly interesing was one about mail (there are tons of mail
delivered to Slovakia insead of Slovenia). He also got one packed via
Slovakia, and the postal workers wrote on the package:
Prišlo poškodené z cudziny.
Compare that to Slovene:
Prišlo poškodovano iz tujine.
(It came damaged from abroad).
and Croatian:
Došlo oštećeno iz inozemstva (or inostranstva?).
Other times I find same words in Slovene and Macedonian, but again not
in Croatian/Serbian. It is very strange how have different languages
retained some words and replaced other words with new ones.
Yusuf B Gursey
> (message didn't came, so I am resending)
>
> Paul J Kriha pravi:
>
> >> Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
> >> "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
> >
> > Nice one, I presume "misir" was borrowed from Turkish
> > word for "Egypt". One shouldn't expect Turks to call this
> > bird a turkey.
>
> It seems so, yes (as that page said that I posted separately).
> And you even posted the word in Turkish without the dots on i (Mısır)!!!
>
> And it seems that Turkish 'turkey' is called 'hindi', how funny is that
> (from the same page):
>
> Turkey in Turkish is 'Hindi'. My etymology book says that it is named
> after Hindistan, the Turkish name for India. Hindistan is usually
> shortened to Hind. so it's Hindistan->Hind->Hindi. It also mentions that
al-hind is the arabic word for "India", and the adjective is hindiyy
the portuguese introduced the bird into India, hence the name.
Yusuf B Gursey
> Paul J Kriha pravi:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Helmut Wollmersdorfer <hel...@wollmersdorfer.at> wrote in message
> >news:eps8n3$iid$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
> >> Dušan Vukotić wrote:
>
> >>> This is interesting! It seems we could compare Serbian 'patka' (pata
> >>> duck) with german Pute. If we say Puthahn it sounds close to Serb.
>
> > It's interesting to see other Slavic names for the turkey.
> > It seems, they kept borrowing from all sorts of different
> > directions. Russian borrowed a name of another country:
> > "indyuk" {m} and "indeyka" {m}. And the Czech names are
> > "krocan" {m}, "krúta" {f}, and "krútě" {n}.
>
> > Do the Czech turkies sound like "krút krút krút"
> > while the German ones go "trut trut trut"? :-)
>
> > Americans, please note, your turkies are quite different
> > birds from the European ones so their calls are likely
> > to sound completely different.
>
> > pjk
>
> In Slovene duck/drake is "raca (f)/racak or racman (m)". Turkey is
> called "puran (m)/pura(f), purica(f - diminutive)" (and the birds sound
> "pur pur"?)
>
> Also in Macedonian duck/drake is "patka/pator патка/патор" and turkey is
> "misir/misirka мисир/мисирка".
the bird was introduced into India by teh Portuguese and sold via
Egypt. Egypt was known as "Turkey" at teh time because of the Mamlukes
and later teh Ottomans. hence the name of the bird.
>
> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
> On one site someone wrote that is also has a Sanskrit cognate, but I
> haven't found it yet.- Hide quoted text -
Paul J Kriha
Dušan Vukotić
> > >> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> > >> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> > >> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> > >> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
> > So then the literary word is South-Slavic, but colloquially we still use
> > the WSl form for 'chicken' only ('poultry' is 'perutnina' - 'perut'
> > means 'wing').
Serbian 'perad' ;-))
> > Prišlo poškodovano iz tujine.
> > (It came damaged from abroad).
>
> > and Croatian:
>
> > Došlo oštećeno iz inozemstva (or inostranstva?).
>
> > Other times I find same words in Slovene and Macedonian, but again not
> > in Croatian/Serbian. It is very strange how have different languages
> > retained some words and replaced other words with new ones.
Serbian 'tuđina' (inostranstvo) ;-)
Nikolaj, can you not be more specific and serious? ;-))
DV
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> Dušan Vukotic <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Why are you so edgy? I just told that misr is Semitic word, not
specifically Hebrew. It is not even impossible that this word has been
borrowed from IE into Semitic.
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> > > >> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> > > >> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> > > >> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> > > >> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
>
> Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
phog...@abo.fi
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Feb 9, 3:15 am, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> > > > >> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> > > > >> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> > > > >> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
> >
> > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
> >
>
> horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
Yusuf, dostum, kardeshim, I know you are far too wise and learned to
lose your precious time on Dushan's stupidities. Instead, you could
tell me about those verbal participles (or whatever is the correct
term) that end in -ib (or -Ib, -ub, -üb). I am trying to learn some
Azeri (don't even ask why) and there are some kind of compound
constructions that have such a participle combined with a finite verb.
I found them singularly difficult to interprete. If I meet such a
construction, how should I approach them to find out what they mean?
What is usually the exact relation between the verbs and their
meanings?
phog...@abo.fi
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Feb 9, 3:15 am, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> What's interesting are words chicken/cock in Slovene. Nowadays the are
> > > > >> called "kokoš(f)/petelin(m)". But colloquially "kokoš" is "kura(f)" and
> > > > >> the corresponidng m. noun is "kurec", which seems to be archaic for
> > > > >> cock. Today "kurec" means only the m. sexual organ in coloquial speech.
> >
> > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
> >
>
> horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
Yusuf, dostum, kardeshim, I know you are far too wise and learned to
lose your precious time on Dushan's stupidities. Instead, you could
tell me about those verbal participles (or whatever is the correct
term) that end in -ib (or -Ib, -ub, -üb). I am trying to learn some
Azeri (don't even ask why) and there are some kind of compound
constructions that have such a participle combined with a finite verb.
I found them singularly difficult to interprete. If I meet such a
construction, how should I approach them to find out what it means?
What is usually the exact relation between the verbs and their
meanings in such a construction?
Yusuf B Gursey
IIRC they are a typeof past participle in Azeri.
phog...@abo.fi
They are (and they do function as a kind of past tense form too) but
they have a very curious function as part of a particular verb
construction too, which I don' t understand well. I'll find an example
for you as soon as I get back to my, uhh, research apparatus.
Dušan Vukotić
ech.
>
> > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
> horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
Absolutely impossible!
Serbian 'ćurka' is derived from the same basis as 'kurek' (Serb. 'ku-
kurikati' to crow; 'ku-kurek' cock; 'kurek'). Compare the names of
'kukuruz' (maize; Serbian vernacular 'kuruz'; kuruz maize <=> horoz
cock) with the word 'kurac' (penis). Serbian penis (kurac) comes out
of the verb 'gurati' (guranje, gurka-nje push); 'kuruz' (maize) is
pretty wel shaped as penis (Serbian 'kurac')! English <turkey> also
stemmed from the basis HOR-GON and it is a cognate of 'ćurka', 'horoz'
and 'kurek'!
DV
Dušan Vukotić
FogLoony, why are you so condescending towards your 'brother'? Are you
an ass-kisser?
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
in all (or perhaps nearly all) turkic languages they function as a
conjunctions, doing one action together with another.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Feb 9, 7:06 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
> ech.
>
>
>
> > > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
> > horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
>
> Absolutely impossible!
I'm sorry buth that is teh way it happens to be.
phog...@abo.fi
No, I gladly leave that job to you, you worthless, contemptible little
creature.
Dušan Vukotić
> On Feb 10, 10:39 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 10, 10:37 am, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 9, 7:06 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
> > > ech.
>
> > > > > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
> > > > horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
>
> > > Absolutely impossible!
>
> > I'm sorry buth that is teh way it happens to be.
No need to be sorry... if you think it is Turkish, please, try to
explain the history of the word 'horoz', of course, using Turkish
language. I suppose you would not be able to tell more than you did
last time when I asked you to be more precise about the word
'bogatyr'.
Once again, it is easy to say "it happenes this or that way" but it
becomes a litlle more difficult when you have to present logically
"this or that way".
Persian 'khorus' is IE word.
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Feb 10, 10:39 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 10, 10:37 am, "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 9, 7:06 pm, "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
> > > ech.
>
> > > > > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
> > > > horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
>
> > > Absolutely impossible!
>
> > I'm sorry buth that is teh way it happens to be.
>
> explain the history of the word 'horoz', of course, using Turkish
macedonian got it from turkish, turkish got it from persian.
> language. I suppose you would not be able to tell more than you did
> last time when I asked you to be more precise about the word
> 'bogatyr'.
> Once again, it is easy to say "it happenes this or that way" but to it
> becomes a litlle more difficult when you have to present logically
> "this or that way".
> Persian 'khorus' is IE word.
I have no problem with that.
>
> DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> > > > > > Serbian '(h)oroz'; the same HOR-GON basis as for 'kurec'
>
> > > > > horoz is from turkish, originaly persian xuro:s
>
> Persian 'khorus' is IE word.
that's modern iranian persian. classical persian (and dari) is xuro:s
(in some dari dialects xoro:s)
turkish avoids final -s in polysyllabic words, thus ottoman turkish
xoroz and modern turkish horoz .
>
> DV
Dušan Vukotić
Fogy Loony, do not get mad again - there are people in white coats
outside - strait jacket is eagerly waiting for you. ;-))
DV
Dušan Vukotić
I see, it is obvious! :-)
DV
phog...@abo.fi
Let us spell out a couple of things. You are hanging out in a
newsgroup for professional linguists and serious learners of
languages. You are cluttering up the newsgroup with crackpot theories
of no linguistic, historic or other justification whatsoever. Then
you have the hubris to insult other people when they do not believe in
your crackpot theories. By all measures, you are the scum of the earth.
phog...@abo.fi
Dušan Vukotić wrote:
> On Jan 31, 7:14 pm, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> > Dušan Vukotić wrote:
> > > The other part of Ras-putin’s name comes from the noun PUT (road,
> > > path!).
> >
> > I wonder if that's where portuguese puta 'whore' comes from as well.
> > --
>
> Puta is whore in spanish. Putana - slut or prostitute in Italian. Also
> I think this word is used as "fuck" or "bitch" in Spain. In Serbian
> there are words 'putenost' (sensuality), 'putena' (carnal) and verb
> 'podati se' (woman who indulges in sexual activitiy).
Are there specific Serbian verbs for mass rapes and murders of Muslim
girls, which seems to be the normal way for a Serbian man to indulge
in his "putenost" and a tradition in Serbia? How many did you rape and
kill back in the nineties by the way? Are you proud?
> After "democratization" and "westernization", Serbia and other East-
> European countries are full of whores standing alongside the roads
> (Serb. put, puta). ;-)
How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or just fifty cents.
Heidi Graw
><phog...@abo.fi> wrote in message
>news:1171187802.6...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
>phoglund wrote:
>Are there specific Serbian verbs for mass rapes and murders of Muslim
>girls, which seems to be the normal way for a Serbian man to indulge
>in his "putenost" and a tradition in Serbia? How many did you rape and
>kill back in the nineties by the way? Are you proud?
You might want to educate yourself about the Croatians and their
drive to become an independent state. Croatians also engaged in
their own ethnic cleansing and they committed massive atrocities, too.
Here's an article which offers a Serb sympathetic perspective which
makes the Croatians look like the bad guys.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/croatia.htm
However, I've got several major criticisms about what is written
about Tito's Regime...
"the multi-ethnic socialist Partisans led by Josip Broz Tito."
and
"During Tito's reign nationalist sentiments were repressed,"
Interesting how there is no mention of the Donau-Schwabian
genocide, an ethnic cleansing, of Germans who had lived
for 6 to 8 generations in the Banat and who had no intention
of leaving and who would have remained productive and
responsible citizens like they've always been no matter
what sort of government they were ruled by. These
Germans had always gotten along well with their
Croatian and Serbian neighbours. If Tito was really
so multi-cultural and non-nationalistic as this article claims
he was, he would not have ordered the murder of all
these innocent Germans who wanted nothing more than
to just to farm the land to feed the masses.
I'm also well aware that Dusan had nothing to do with that
German genocide. He has expressed his own disgust
with the atrocities of wars. It would behoove you not to
lay blame on someone who was not directly responsible
for any atrocities.
But, to be really honest, when I first noticed Dusan
was a Serbian, all sorts of anti-Serb propaganda
that the media had broadcasted here in Canada came
to mind, the Banat genocide first and foremost because
I have a personally vested interest in it. However, I
was intelligent enough to realize that Dusan was
*not* directly involved and he would have in no way
supported those kinds of atrocities. I'm not going to
hold him responsible for whatever war crimes Serbian
Partisans committed.
What I chose to do, though, is to engage Dusan into a
discussion and thereby use this opportunity to re-enforce
what past Germans living in the Banat had always done...
and that was to be good neighbours and good friends.
Tito was the villain, and *not* Dusan!
Heidi
Peter T. Daniels
> your crackpot theories. By all measures, you are the scum of the earth.-
What a sheltered life you must have led. Dusan isn't particularly
scummy even by the fairly unmolested measure of sci.lang.
Dušan Vukotić
> How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or just fifty cents.
Obviously, you are suffering from serious mental illness.
One can only imagine what crimes you could have committed if you had
not been restraned by regulations, rules and laws of a normal human
society.
Any dignified human being would have rather killed himself than ever
bring any harm to anybody's daughter in the world.
DV
Ruud Harmsen
in sci.lang:
>On Feb 11, 10:56 am, phogl...@abo.fi wrote:
>> How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or just fifty cents.
>Obviously, you are suffering from serious mental illness.
Read the Bible, it seriously dicusses such issues. I kid you not.
--
Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com
Nik
> You might want to educate yourself about the Croatians and
> their drive to become an independent state. Croatians also
> engaged in their own ethnic cleansing and they committed
> massive atrocities, too.
As I already said once, the role of Croats was not at all important in
the break-up of ex-Yu. From the beginning this was primarily Serbian-
Slovenian stuggle. Only later in the events, when the Milošević's
politics has failed in Slovenia and it became de-facto independent,
Croats became important.
So it is you who need some education.
> Interesting how there is no mention of the Donau-Schwabian
> genocide, an ethnic cleansing, of Germans who had lived
> for 6 to 8 generations in the Banat and who had no intention
> of leaving and who would have remained productive and
> responsible citizens like they've always been no matter
> what sort of government they were ruled by. These
> Germans had always gotten along well with their
> Croatian and Serbian neighbours. If Tito was really
> so multi-cultural and non-nationalistic as this article claims
> he was, he would not have ordered the murder of all
> these innocent Germans who wanted nothing more than
> to just to farm the land to feed the masses.
Never heard about a genocide of Germans. The resettlement and
expulsion of Germans that happened after WW2 was a solution devised by
Allies, particularly the UK, and implemented by those forces which
controlled the areas where those Germans lived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
Some replacements of German people were a direct responcibility of the
Nazis, for instance those in Slovenia and happened early in the war.
http://www.ff.uni-lj.si/oddelki/zgodovin/wwwrepe/20th/Migrations%20deportations.pdf
> What I chose to do, though, is to engage Dusan into a
> discussion and thereby use this opportunity to re-enforce
> what past Germans living in the Banat had always done...
> and that was to be good neighbours and good friends.
> Tito was the villain, and *not* Dusan!
While Tito might not have been an innocent soul, his policy was quite
adequate for protecting the county and ensuring its independence for
the West and the East, and he had a lot of respect for it, as the
mourners from all around the world showed at his funeral.
Dušan Vukotić
On Feb 11, 6:31 pm, "Nik" <nikolaj.kor...@uni-mb.si> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 11:50 am, "Heidi Graw" <h...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > You might want to educate yourself about the Croatians and
> > their drive to become an independent state. Croatians also
> > engaged in their own ethnic cleansing and they committed
> > massive atrocities, too.
>
> As I already said once, the role of Croats was not at all important in
> the break-up of ex-Yu. From the beginning this was primarily Serbian-
> politics has failed in Slovenia and it became de-facto independent,
> Croats became important.
The break up of Yugoslavia was planned in advance. And it is normal
that those nations (Slovene, Moslems and Croates in the first place)
cooperated on that separatist goal. Long before Slovenia launched the
war against the JNA Croatia started to arm their paramilitary forces
(the General Spegelj case).
Finally, if the Croats had not wanted to break Yugoslavia, Slovenia
would have never obtained her independence. Therefore, you are the one
who needs a serious "whip" of education! :-))
> So it is you who need some education.
>
> > Interesting how there is no mention of the Donau-Schwabian
> > genocide, an ethnic cleansing, of Germans who had lived
> > for 6 to 8 generations in the Banat and who had no intention
> > of leaving and who would have remained productive and
> > responsible citizens like they've always been no matter
> > what sort of government they were ruled by. These
> > Germans had always gotten along well with their
> > Croatian and Serbian neighbours. If Tito was really
> > so multi-cultural and non-nationalistic as this article claims
> > he was, he would not have ordered the murder of all
> > these innocent Germans who wanted nothing more than
> > to just to farm the land to feed the masses.
>
> Never heard about a genocide of Germans. The resettlement and
> expulsion of Germans that happened after WW2 was a solution devised by
> Allies, particularly the UK, and implemented by those forces which
> controlled the areas where those Germans lived.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
>
> Some replacements of German people were a direct responsibility of the
> Nazis, for instance those in Slovenia and happened early in the war.
>
> http://www.ff.uni-lj.si/oddelki/zgodovin/wwwrepe/20th/Migrations%20de...
>
> > What I chose to do, though, is to engage Dusan into a
> > discussion and thereby use this opportunity to re-enforce
> > what past Germans living in the Banat had always done...
> > and that was to be good neighbours and good friends.
> > Tito was the villain, and *not* Dusan!
>
> While Tito might not have been an innocent soul, his policy was quite
> adequate for protecting the county and ensuring its independence for
> the West and the East, and he had a lot of respect for it, as the
> mourners from all around the world showed at his funeral.
You are not right! What about Hungarian; they were shoulder to
shoulder with the Germans. No body has the right to expel people from
their homes. Those who were committed crimes deserved the punishment,
but what guilt innocent people, woman and children had to repay?
> Some replacements of German people were a direct responsibility of
the
> Nazis, for instance those in Slovenia and happened early in the war.
This is a clear-cut example of Nazi-like “objectivity”!
DV
Nik
> > > Prišlo poškodovano iz tujine.
> > > (It came damaged from abroad).
>
> > > Došlo oštećeno iz inozemstva (or inostranstva?).
>
> > > Other times I find same words in Slovene and
> > > Macedonian, but again not in Croatian/Serbian.
> > > It is very strange how have different languages
> > > retained some words and replaced other words
> > > with new ones.
>
> Serbian 'tuđina' (inostranstvo) ;-)
That is one word out of three, not counting the preposition.
> Nikolaj, can you not be more specific and serious? ;-))
I didn't say it is a frequent phenomenon, only that I find such word
here and there, when listening to Macedonian music.
For instance: Slovene and Macedonian: "volk, solza, sonce" vs. Serbian/
Croatian "vuk, suza, sunce" (wolf, tear, sun). I would conclude that
Serbian/Croatian must have made a sound change, that didn't appear in
Slovene and Macedonian.
Also verbs sometimes, now I can only quote verb 'zapomni' (memorize)
vs. 'zapamti':
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_zapomniti
You can check for more on the page about Slavic false friends:
'čas' (meaning 'time' in Slovene, WestSlavic, Belarussian and
Ukrainian, + more meanings in other l.)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_chas
'grad' (meaning 'castle, fortress' in Slovene and Czech,+ more
meanings in other l.)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_grad
'igrati' (the meaning 'play (in theatre)' same in Slo and Mac; + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_igrati
'kraj' (this map is a bit wrong as 'kraj' in Slovene doesn't mean
'end' - we use the same word as the Czech language 'konec')
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_kraj
'leto' (means 'year' in Slovene and Lower and Upper Sorbian + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_leto
'reč' (means 'matter' in Slovene, Polish and Belorussian + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_rech
'sad' (means 'fruit in Slovene and Lower and Upper Sorbian + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_sad
'sklep' (unique in Slovene meaning 'conclusion' or 'joint' + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_sklep
'slovo' (again unique in Slov. meaning 'farewell' + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_slovo
'stol' (meaning 'chair' in Slov., Mac., Bolg, Upper and Lower Sorbian,
'table' + more elsewhere )
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_stol
'stolica' (in Slov. 'stool' or 'professorship', 'chair' in Cro.,
Serb., Mac., Cz., Slovak + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_stolica
'vreden' (also interesing map. Means only 'precious' in Slovene,
'precious' and 'hard-working' in Cro., Serb., 'able' in Mac.+ more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_vredny
'zrak' (meaning 'air' in Slov., Cro., 'ray' in Serb., Mac., 'eyesight'
in Cz., Slovak, Belarussian + more)
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_zork
+ plenty more words that the page doesn't mention. My last interesting
find was that 'vrl' means 'virtous, honest' in Slovene and exactly the
opposite, 'bad', 'evil' in Macedonians. So at first I got the meaning
of the song quite wrong, when it speaks about 'vrlite Grci' (bad
Greeks)...
Heidi Graw
>"Nik" <nikolaj...@uni-mb.si> wrote in message
>news:1171215083....@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
>Never heard about a genocide of Germans. The resettlement and
>expulsion of Germans that happened after WW2 was a solution devised by
>Allies, particularly the UK, and implemented by those forces which
>controlled the areas where those Germans lived.
http://www.totenbuch-donauschwaben.at/en/history.htm
Members of my husband's family had chosen to remain in
Mramorak, Banat. They refused to allow themselves
to be expelled by Tito. They've lived there for 6 to 8
generations. Banat was their home and, despite some
past ups and down in past politics, they honestly
believed nothing bad would happen to them.
I counted 43 family members on my
husband's paternal side who were rounded up,
starved, tortured and worked to death, and/or otherwise
were executed point-blank. I haven't even begun to
count the number of dead on his maternal side.
The list is so huge and the subject matter so awful
I'm having great emotional difficulties getting through
this list.
The ones who committed these murders? Serbian
Partisans.
However, I'm well aware not all Serbs supported the
heinous acts, just as not all Germans supported Nazi
atrocities.
I was a child when my family moved to Canada.
That was back in 1966. You wouldn't believe the
amount of hatred that still existed against Germans
living here in Canada. As a 10-year old girl I was
accused of being a Nazi and a Jew killer. Hmmmm...
Fortunately, my parents were the kind of people who
could make friends very easily. In no time at all
they had British, Irish, Canadian, Jewish and Russian
friends. So, whatever happened to me at school
didn't matter. The kids were just being ignorant.
I could dismiss them and ignore their attacks.
It was the social life at home that kept me going.
I knew from the many friends of my parents
that it was o.k. to be German and one can be proud
to be one.
Peace.
Heidi
Nik
>
> > As I already said once, the role of Croats was not at all important in
> > the break-up of ex-Yu. From the beginning this was primarily Serbian-
> > Slovenian stuggle. Only later in the events, when the Milo¹eviæ's
> > politics has failed in Slovenia and it became de-facto independent,
> > Croats became important.
>
> The break up of Yugoslavia was planned in advance. And it is normal
> that those nations (Slovene, Moslems and Croates in the first place)
> cooperated on that separatist goal. Long before Slovenia launched the
> war against the JNA Croatia started to arm their paramilitary forces
> (the General Spegelj case).
Territorial defence was a legitimate armed force. Each republic had
one and it was under the command of the republic. JNA had no right to
disarm a legitimate army (which they succeed in Cro., but only partial
in Slo.). That was the reason why Croatia (and Slovenia too) started
to rearm their forces. I will not go into defending Croats here, when
they established a new armed force, instead of staying with the one
that was legal (TD).
But it is true that it was planned. Planned by that president of a
republic (Milošević) that had stolen a quarter of a federal budget and
used it to 'support' elections in his own republic and that president
who sent the tanks to the streets of Belgrade against his opposition
and students. All that happened a long before any of those events you
mention.
> Finally, if the Croats had not wanted to break Yugoslavia, Slovenia
> would have never obtained her independence. Therefore, you are the one
> who needs a serious "whip" of education! :-))
That is not how it happened.
> You are not right! What about Hungarian; they were shoulder to
> shoulder with the Germans. No body has the right to expel people from
> their homes.
I don't say anyone has that right, I am saying that was a policy
designed and approved by Allies.
> Those who were committed crimes deserved the punishment,
> but what guilt innocent people, woman and children had to repay?
You can tell that to the 8000 innocent high school students of
Kragujevac or hunderds of civilians handed or killed in Slovenia or
people of London, Dresden, Hiroshima, etc...
> > Some replacements of German people were a direct responsibility of
> the Nazis, for instance those in Slovenia and happened early in the war.
>
> This is a clear-cut example of Nazi-like “objectivity”!
Never heard of that? You also need some education...
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/gottsche.html
The first settlers in the Gottschee region arrived around 1330, the
municipalities operating under the rule of South German Law.
The region came to be part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, known as
Krain, until the treaties of 1919 which concluded the First World War.
At this point, Gottschee, or Kocevje, became part of the Kingdom of
Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
In 1941, as part of the population movement of over 31 million people
in East Central Europe associated with World War II, Germany and Italy
signed a bilateral treaty by which 15,000 Gottschee Germans were
resettled in recently acquired areas of the Third Reich. This was part
of a general Reich policy of resettling Volksdeutsche within the
Reich.
Following World War II, the Gottschee area became part of the country
of Yugoslavia, and on December 23, 1990, part of the Republic of
Slovenia.
http://www.gottschee.org/history.html
During World War II, the Gottscheers lost their homeland. When the
German and Italian armies invaded Yugoslavia in April 1941, an
agreement between Italy and Germany gave control of the Gottschee land
area to Italy. Nine months later, the German government resettled the
Gottscheer ethnic Germans from their 650-year homeland. This was done
in December 1941 and January 1942, when almost 12,000 Gottscheers were
relocated to Brezice (Rann), Slovenia that had been incorporated into
the German Reich during the war.
Dušan Vukotić
> On Feb 9, 9:15 am, "Du¹an Vukotiæ"
>
> > > > Pri¹lo po¹kodovano iz tujine.
> > > > (It came damaged from abroad).
>
>
> > > > Other times I find same words in Slovene and
> > > > Macedonian, but again not in Croatian/Serbian.
> > > > It is very strange how have different languages
> > > > retained some words and replaced other words
> > > > with new ones.
>
>
> That is one word out of three, not counting the preposition.
>
> > Nikolaj, can you not be more specific and serious? ;-))
>
> I didn't say it is a frequent phenomenon, only that I find such word
> here and there, when listening to Macedonian music.
Last time you told that average Serb can understand only about 10% of
the Slovaenian vocabulary. Now you are unable to find a couple of
words which are different in Slovenian and Serbian. ;-)
> For instance: Slovene and Macedonian: "volk, solza, sonce" vs. Serbian/
> Croatian "vuk, suza, sunce" (wolf, tear, sun). I would conclude that
> Serbian/Croatian must have made a sound change, that didn't appear in
> Slovene and Macedonian.
Do not be ridiculous! Serbian 'suza' is derived from 'slza' (Serb.
sluz slime. mucus); the same is with the word 'vuk' (from volk,
vlačiti, vući pool, drag).
> Also verbs sometimes, now I can only quote verb 'zapomni' (memorize)
> vs. 'zapamti':http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_zapomniti
Are you infantile? What about Serbian 'pomen' (remembrance); zapomni
=> zapamti - velar to dental change; Serb, pamćenje (memory, mind)
> You can check for more on the page about Slavic false friends:
>
> 'èas' (meaning 'time' in Slovene, WestSlavic, Belarussian and
> Ukrainian, + more meanings in other l.)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_chas
>
> 'grad' (meaning 'castle, fortress' in Slovene and Czech,+ more
> meanings in other l.)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_grad
>
Serbian 'građevina' (constructoin, building), 'grad' (city, citadel);
there from Serb. 'ograda' (fence)
> 'igrati' (the meaning 'play (in theatre)' same in Slo and Mac; + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_igrati
Igra, kretnja, krug, gre-ti > all comes from the same Hor-GON basis!
> 'kraj' (this map is a bit wrong as 'kraj' in Slovene doesn't mean
> 'end' - we use the same word as the Czech language 'konec')http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_kraj
Serbian 'konac' (end); na koncu (at the end) - what is wrong with you?
Are you realy so stupid? Are you a comic book character? You are
funnier than Abdullah!
> 'leto' (means 'year' in Slovene and Lower and Upper Sorbian + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_leto
Stop please! Do not spoil the picture about the Balkan wit!
Serbian:'koliko ti je leta'? (How old are you? Literally: How many
years you have?
Serbian 'leto' (year, summer)!
> 'reè' (means 'matter' in Slovene, Polish and Belorussian + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_rech
Have you recently passed through the nuclear cloud or menopause?
Slovenian/Serbian 'reče' he says; Serb. 'reč' (word); Slovenian
‘beseda’ (word), Serbian ‘beseda’ (speech, talk); Serbian: “O čemu je
REČ?” (What is the matter?)
> 'sad' (means 'fruit in Slovene and Lower and Upper Sorbian + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_sad
Serbian 'sad' (za-sad orchard); from 'saditi' (to seed)
> 'sklep' (unique in Slovene meaning 'conclusion' or 'joint' + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_sklep
You are a real menace! Serbian 'sklop' (joint)
> 'slovo' (again unique in Slov. meaning 'farewell' + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_slovo
Slovenian 'slovar' (dictionary); Serb. 'slovo' (letter', Russian
'slovo' (word)
> 'stol' (meaning 'chair' in Slov., Mac., Bolg, Upper and Lower Sorbian,
> 'table' + more elsewhere )http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_stol
>
> 'stolica' (in Slov. 'stool' or 'professorship', 'chair' in Cro.,
Much ado about nothing! ;-)) Sto, stolica (table, chair), four stilts
with the table above...:) Are you retarded or what...?
> Serb., Mac., Cz., Slovak + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_stolica
>
> 'vreden' (also interesing map. Means only 'precious' in Slovene,
> 'precious' and 'hard-working' in Cro., Serb., 'able' in Mac.+ more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_vredny
Do not be silly! Serbian 'vredan' (precious, hard-working)
> 'zrak' (meaning 'air' in Slov., Cro., 'ray' in Serb., Mac., 'eyesight'
> in Cz., Slovak, Belarussian + more)http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_zork
Bullshit! Serbian 'zrak' (ray, air); Serbian syntagm 'leteti kroz
zrak' (fly through the air)
> + plenty more words that the page doesn't mention. My last interesting
> find was that 'vrl' means 'virtous, honest' in Slovene and exactly the
> opposite, 'bad', 'evil' in Macedonians. So at first I got the meaning
> of the song quite wrong, when it speaks about 'vrlite Grci' (bad
> Greeks)...
Macedonian evil is 'zlo'; the same is in Serbian and Slovenian - zlo,
zao, лош, loš - evil, bad. There is only the word 'врлежен'/vrležen in
Macedonian (Serb. 'vrletan', 'vrlet' abrupt, precipitous, cliff);
Please, do not disappoint me again! Go to library if there is any in
Slovenia and try to learn (at least!) the basic things!
DV
Peter T. Daniels
> You might want to educate yourself about the Croatians and their
> drive to become an independent state.
Well, troll Heidi, are you proud of yourself for inviting miles of off-
topic postings on Yugoslav atrocities?
If you want to revel in such things, you can get your ass over to
soc.culture.balkans and LEAVE US ALONE, already.
Heidi Graw
>"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:1171227770....@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 11, 5:50 am, "Heidi Graw" <h...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> You might want to educate yourself about the Croatians and their
>> drive to become an independent state.
>
>
> Well, troll Heidi, are you proud of yourself for inviting miles of off-
> topic postings on Yugoslav atrocities?
Phoglund introduced the subject with the following post he/she posted
on Feb. 11 to Dusan:
****
>[Dusan wrote}
> Puta is whore in spanish. Putana - slut or prostitute in Italian. Also
> I think this word is used as "fuck" or "bitch" in Spain. In Serbian
> there are words 'putenost' (sensuality), 'putena' (carnal) and verb
> 'podati se' (woman who indulges in sexual activitiy).
phoglund wrote:
Are there specific Serbian verbs for mass rapes and murders of Muslim
girls, which seems to be the normal way for a Serbian man to indulge
in his "putenost" and a tradition in Serbia? How many did you rape and
kill back in the nineties by the way? Are you proud?
> After "democratization" and "westernization", Serbia and other East-
> European countries are full of whores standing alongside the roads
> (Serb. put, puta). ;-)
How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or just fifty cents.
****
>
> Peter wrote:
> If you want to revel in such things, you can get your ass over to
> soc.culture.balkans and LEAVE US ALONE, already.
Then tell it to phoglund...the person responsible for veering this
discussion off topic.
Heidi
>
Dušan Vukotić
You are right, this is off-topic, but Heidi did not start it.
It was Fogy Loony, a real troll who threw the "bone of contention".
DV
Nik
> Last time you told that average Serb can understand only about 10% of
> the Slovaenian vocabulary. Now you are unable to find a couple of
> words which are different in Slovenian and Serbian. ;-)
I still think so, only I didn't want to answer you (and I also don't
know how to prove my claim, as I am not a linguist). You are free to
take two dictionaries and start to compare.
Slovenes and Macedonians were learning Serbocroatian language in the
schools, what's the reason for that then? And why was Serbocroatian
made an official language of politics, diplomacy and army in Yu, if we
understand each other?
You also said you understand Resian dialect, that even Slovenes don't
understand normally. Only you used some biblical text, that is easily
understandable, more so because you probably already know what is
being said. I will believe you, if you transliterate and translate
this spoken Resian.
http://www.resianet.org/CCRD/Trs14Track05.wma
> > For instance: Slovene and Macedonian: "volk, solza, sonce" vs. Serbian/
> > Croatian "vuk, suza, sunce" (wolf, tear, sun). I would conclude that
> > Serbian/Croatian must have made a sound change, that didn't appear in
> > Slovene and Macedonian.
>
> Do not be ridiculous! Serbian 'suza' is derived from 'slza' (Serb.
> sluz slime. mucus); the same is with the word 'vuk' (from volk,
> vlačiti, vući pool, drag).
'vLk' comes from PIE, wherefrom are also derived Lithuanian vrkas
(nominative), and Sanskrit 'vRka' (stem form) and
'vRkas' (nominative). All these forms appear from PIE verb for 'to
tear' (IMO) - the noun in Sanskrit literally means 'tearer'. The verb
'vRk' in Sanskrit also means 'to take, to seize' which adequatly
describes wolf's activity, he is the 'taker (of lifestock)'.
(R, L - syllabic vowels).
> Are you infantile? What about Serbian 'pomen' (remembrance); zapomni
> => zapamti - velar to dental change; Serb, pamćenje (memory, mind)
I said that now the forms in Slovene and Macedoian are same and in
Serbian in different. Am I wrong and there exists 'zapomni' in
Serbian? 'Pomen' in Slovene means 'meaning' or Serbian 'značenje'.
> > 'kraj' (this map is a bit wrong as 'kraj' in Slovene doesn't mean
> > 'end' - we use the same word as the Czech language 'konec')http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Map_kraj
>
> Serbian 'konac' (end); na koncu (at the end) - what is wrong with you?
> Are you realy so stupid? Are you a comic book character? You are
> funnier than Abdullah!
The word 'end' is in Serbian 'kraj' or 'svršetak' and 'konac' means
'thread'. You are deliberately forging the meaning of Serbian words.
> > + plenty more words that the page doesn't mention. My last interesting
> > find was that 'vrl' means 'virtous, honest' in Slovene and exactly the
> > opposite, 'bad', 'evil' in Macedonians. So at first I got the meaning
> > of the song quite wrong, when it speaks about 'vrlite Grci' (bad
> > Greeks)...
>
> Macedonian evil is 'zlo'; the same is in Serbian and Slovenian - zlo,
> zao, лош, loš - evil, bad. There is only the word 'врлежен'/vrležen in
> Macedonian (Serb. 'vrletan', 'vrlet' abrupt, precipitous, cliff);
Here's a Macedonian song for you:
Si ja fatile mlada Ilena
si ja falile vrlite Turci:
- Kaži go, kaži, mlada Ileno,
kaži go, kaži, brata si Stojana...
And another with 'vrlite Grci':
http://mk.wikisource.org/wiki/1762_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE
Царска волја е да тргнеш
денеска за Цариграда
на тебе од врли Грци, голем поплак е.
Еј! Голем поплак е.
--------------------------------
Anyway, this is my last answer to you, you aren't normal. Every second
line in your response are insults and crap. Go find a shrink and FUCK
OFF from this newsgroup.
Christopher Culver
> Phoglund introduced the subject with the following post he/she posted
> on Feb. 11 to Dusan:
Just because someone else brought up an inappropriate subject does not
mean that you can continue it in any way.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Dušan Vukotić
I have already told that I do not have an intention to discuss
politics here. This time I was provoked by the FogLoony's hog-like
grunting.
To be honest, I did expect that more people would react to the hideous
sentence posted here: "How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or
just fifty cents."
Only person who did it was Heidi and I want to thank her from the
bottom of my heart.
Thank you Heidi!
Nik
> >"Nik" <nikolaj.kor...@uni-mb.si> wrote in message
> >news:1171215083....@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
I'm sorry about what happened to your family.
> Peace.
>
> Heidi
Yes, peace.
Heidi Graw
>"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1171230233.3...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...(snip)
>Dusan wrote to Nik:
> I have already told that I do not have an intention to discuss
>politics here. This time I was provoked by the FogLoony's hog-like
>grunting.
>To be honest, I did expect that more people would react to the hideous
>sentence posted here: "How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or
>just fifty cents."
>Only person who did it was Heidi and I want to thank her from the
>bottom of my heart.
>Thank you Heidi!
You're welcome, Dusan. What phoglund wrote was way too disgusting
to just let it go by. Something had to be said, so I did.
It is, however, telling that the ones who are being chastized are the ones
who've tried to *defend* against these vile and disgusting slurs.
Oh well...this tells me something about those who felt no need to
chastize phoglund...the one who's the real and actual troll.
It would be nice to see some others step forward to rap phoglund
over the knuckles.
Oh well, such is life on Usenet!
Heidi
Dušan Vukotić
Do not be so fragile! This is a chance for you to learn something
serious. If you decide not to communicate with me in the future, tell
me only does it mean 'konac' ili 'kraj'.
I am normal but I do not like liars.
Here you said: "The word 'end' is in Serbian 'kraj' or 'svršetak' and
'konac' means
'thread'. You are deliberately forging the meaning of Serbian words".
I cannot understand your lies because every one can go to the one of
the online Serbian dictionaries and type the word 'end' or 'konac'.
Underneath you have "results" of both words (English 'end' and Serbian
'konac').
Serbian 'konac' has the meaning thread, and it is the word from the
same source as Slovenian/Serbian word 'nit'; from the basis GON
(Serbian 'goniti' drive, 'gnječiti' knead); cf. English 'nit' and
Serbian 'gnjida'(nit); do you understand now how close are all IE
languages?
I hope you are getting the clue :-))
DV
end - cilj
end - dance
end - dance vrha
end - dno
end - dokrajciti
end - ishod
end - konac
end - kraj
end - namena
end - namera
end - okončati (se)
end - rezultat
end - smer
end - smrt
end - svrha
end - svršetak
end - svršiti (se)
end - završavati se
end - završiti
end - završiti se
end - završti se
konac - clue
konac - end
konac - ending
konac - file
konac - last
konac - rope
konac - string
konac - thread
konac - twist
konac - yarn
Helmut Wollmersdorfer
> How much does your daughter cost? One euro, or just fifty cents.
I hope you apologize to Dušan and to all other readers.
Helmut Wollmersdorfer