Ymir
Dušan Vukotić
> Could you please try to find a Magdalenian
> origin for "Audhumla?" To me that word
> sounds very mystical and mantric. I could
> put myself into a shamanic trance simply
> by repeating that word over and over again.
> Thanks,
> Heidi
>Your Gnaben(stein) is of great importance in this case -
>Heaven(stone) :-)
>It is interesting to compare Audhumla with Hindu mythical cow called
>Surabhi. If I remember well, god Krishna became Govinda after he drank
>(or was bathed in) the milk of Surabhi cow. This name (Govinda) is
>related to Serbian govedo (bull or cow; goveda cattle). According to
>my HSF the original basis of the word Govinda is the same as the basis
>of -humla - Gon-Bel-Gon. Here are also the names of other animals:
>Serb. kobila (mare), Lat. caballus (horse), camelus - all words
>related to Serb. gomila (heap), Brygian goddess Zemela, Slavic zemlja
>(earth), Arabic jamala (to bear); Hebrew sabal (to bear, laden).
>DV
Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
world, peace).
First, there is the Hindu deity of death called Yama, also known as
Yamarāja, who may be related to Ymir. On the other side is the Serbo-
Slavic word umor (death, tiredness, fatigue; Lat. mors, mortis death;
Skt. mṛtya death), wherefrom the other Serbian words as umirati (die),
izumirati (extinct) and smrt (death) are stemming. Slavic word smert
(*sъ-mьrtь) is closely related to Slavic mir (peace) and the verb
smiriti (appease, pacify, placate, moderate; OSlav. съмѣренъ quiet,
pacific); i.e. Slavic *smert- (death) is a direct derivation from the
word mir (peace); smiriti (appease) => smrt (death).
Now, let us try to compare Sanskrit nirvana (extinction) and Serbian
umirivanje (calm someone/something; make quiet). It seems that Slavic
mir comes from nir (n => m phonetic change; unirivanje => umirivanje;
Skt. nirvana).
It is supposed that Slavic word miro is a loanword from Greek μύρον
(sweet oil, unguent, perfume); but it sounds very unusual if we try to
translate the Serbian compound word miro-pomazanje (anointment).
Namely, Serbian miropomazanje is the Christian custom of anointing
with holy oil (Serb. sveti mir = holy oil) used during infant baptism.
Wouldn't it be more logical if we said that Jesus is God's Peace Child
(in Serb. dete Božjeg Mira; Božji Mir = God's Peace) and that
anointment symbolically denoted the parental wish that God would bring
paece to the infant? The most important thing parents would like to
see is that their child is protected by god and raised in peace
(Slavic mir = peace).
Slavic goddess of death, Morena (Morena, Mara) is the same goddess of
death, known in Hindu and Baltic mythology under the name Mara.
Obviously, all the above words are related to the Serbo-Slavic word
umiranje/morenje (dying; Serb. umoren killed).
As we can see, Ymir also was killed (Serb. umor-en) and, on the other
side, Ymir's body was the "starting material" for the creation of the
world (Russian mir /world/).
Ymir was created from the melting ice of Niflheim (misty house/House
of the Heaven; Nebeska Kuća in Serbian; Nebeška Hiša in Slovenian;
Nebel/Nebula Haus!)
DV
Heidi Graw
>"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:03a995d4-c894-4a59...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
>>Heidi had asked:
>>Could you please try to find a Magdalenian
>> origin for "Audhumla?"
>Dusan wrote:
>Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
>is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
>world, peace).
Hi Dusan,
There's still something I want to write about Audhumla and
Ymir. I plan to do this sometime this evening if I get a chance.
In the meantime...here's something you can laugh about...
I sewed this costume and decked myself out as
a Roman Matron...eine echte Matrone! LOL...
http://www.heidigraw.0catch.com/matron.html
ROTFL!!!
Take care,
Heidi
Dušan Vukotić
> On Mar 14, 10:23 pm, "Heidi Graw" <hg...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >"Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Trond Engen
> Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> world, peace).
The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
> First, there is the Hindu deity of death called Yama, also known as
> Yamarāja, who may be related to Ymir.
Yes. And perhaps Latin Remus < *yemus. I've even seen an attempt to
connect it to Finnish Jumala "God".
> On the other side is the Serbo-Slavic word umor (death, tiredness,
> fatigue; Lat. mors, mortis death; Skt. mṛtya death), [...]
A completely other side, that is. The rest is leading to
> Niflheim
--
Trond Engen
- nebulous
Paul J Kriha
> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
> > Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> > is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> > world, peace).
>
> The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
>
> > First, there is the Hindu deity of death called Yama, also known as
> > Yamarāja, who may be related to Ymir.
>
> Yes. And perhaps Latin Remus < *yemus. I've even seen an attempt to
> connect it to Finnish Jumala "God".
Did you know that Remus came all the way from the old Mesopotamia?
He never managed to get rid of his old habbit of signing his name,
Sumer, backwards.
pjk
Heidi Graw
>> > (snip)
>> > In the meantime...here's something you can laugh about...
>> >
>> > I sewed this costume and decked myself out as
>> > a Roman Matron...eine echte Matrone! LOL...
>> > http://www.heidigraw.0catch.com/matron.html
>> >
>> > ROTFL!!!
>Dusan writes:
>The conquering Roman Matron... :-)
http://vukotic.110mb.com/matron.htm
LOL...you're too funny! Btw, can you
tell me what program you're using for
your artwork?
As for more on Ymir, you'll have to wait
until tomorrow evening. It's getting
late and I'm too tired.
'til later,
Heidi
Dušan Vukotić
> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
> > Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> > is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> > world, peace).
>
> The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
similar umi-rati => mreti (pass away, die). There is Serbian word jama
(hole) and jamar (once again JAMA-R) is a man who is digging the holes
and jama is also a synonim for grave (jamar gravedigger). I suppose
that Sanskrit Yamarāja is equal to Serbian jamarenje (digging of
holes). Serbian phrase "završiti u jami" means "to end one's life in a
grave". In fact, Serbian jama is a distant cousin of words as Serbian
zemlja (earth), gomila (heap), kamara (heap), hum (mound) and English
hole and hill. I was talking earlier that a great number of words was
developed from the same basis from which their antonyms had also been
derived.
If you are able to grasp the relation among English words hill, whole,
hole and hell you are on a good path to understand the way in which
the human speech has benn developed. And you could call yourself an
expert if you were able to understand the relation among Serbian words
uzimanje (taking), izneti (take out), AS ge-nimen (to take, move an
object in the hand from its place, to pick up), Serbian zemlja
(earth), jamljenje (taking), hum (hill), English hill,heap, globe and
a thousands of other words I have no time to mention now.
DV
Joachim Pense
> On Mar 15, 2:24 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>>
>> > Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
>> > is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
>> > world, peace).
>>
>> The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
>
> Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
> obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
> similar umi-rati => mreti (pass away, die). There is Serbian word jama
> (hole) and jamar (once again JAMA-R) is a man who is digging the holes
> and jama is also a synonim for grave (jamar gravedigger). I suppose
> that Sanskrit Yamarāja is equal to Serbian jamarenje (digging of
> holes).
I'd rather think of the compound Yama + rāja, meaning king Yama.
Joachim
Dušan Vukotić
> "Dušan Vukotić" <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7eebd46d-7bcb-4740...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > (snip)
> >> > In the meantime...here's something you can laugh about...
>
> >> > I sewed this costume and decked myself out as
> >> > a Roman Matron...eine echte Matrone! LOL...
> >> >http://www.heidigraw.0catch.com/matron.html
>
> >> > ROTFL!!!
> >Dusan writes:
> >The conquering Roman Matron... :-)
>
> http://vukotic.110mb.com/matron.htm
>
> LOL...you're too funny! Btw, can you
> tell me what program you're using for
> your artwork?
Nothing special Heidi...Adobe Image Ready, for a minute or two...
Regards,
Dušan
Dušan Vukotić
You are right Joachim!
It could be taken as raja or rex (king) too, but if you could
understand that raja/rex is related to words as range, rank, and
Serbian red (row), rad (work) you would also seee that my Xur-Bel-Gon
formula (HSF) is not a product of an exuberant imagination. I talked
many times about the primeval Hor-Gon basis, which gave us the words
as circus, Serbian krug (circle), kretanje (movement), uređenje
(arrangement), rađenje (work). You must understand that words like
urge, work and Serb. rad are clearly related; i.e. Lat. urgeo is the
same word as English work or Serb. vergati (work). The u => v phonetic
change is clearly visible and this is another example that there was
no word in IE languages that started with the vowel in initial place
(horgon => uorgon => work; ON yrka). Now, I thing you are able to
conclude for yourself that English year is nothing else but
"circle" (from Hor-Gon basis; Serb. krug. Greek krugos) were from we
have Eng. "hour" (Lat. hornus "of this year"; Greek hora; Serb. ura
hour etc.).
DV
Brian M. Scott
<dusan....@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:a69b7174-802f-41dc...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Mar 15, 2:24 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>>> Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
>>> is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
>>> world, peace).
>> The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
> Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
> obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
Apparently time runs backwards in Dušan's world. This goes
a long way towards explaining the oral excretions.
[...]
Dušan Vukotić
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:38:03 -0700 (PDT), Dušan Vukotić
What happened to your Brian, copy/paste Brainy?
When you look at the mirror do you see thick green or yellow mucose
Brainy-Brian draining from your nose?
DV
Trond Engen
> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
>> First, there is the Hindu deity of death called Yama, also known as
>> Yamarāja, who may be related to Ymir.
>
> Yes. And perhaps Latin Remus < *yemus. I've even seen an attempt to
> connect it to Finnish Jumala "God".
I might add that, in spite of the association of Ymir to an IE "twin
myth", his name is not as close to Yama's as it may superficially look.
ON short y is generally from *wu- > *u, umlauted by -i-. It looks to me
as if the name is connected to the verb <ymja> "sound", which has
yielded several reflexes in the Scandinavian languages. That would make
it a fairly mainstream giant's name, I think, and perhaps even a
medieval invention.
--
Trond Engen
- ymter frampå
Paul J Kriha
I can't help thinking of "yammer" and "jabber". :-)
"Yammer" <-- Old English "geo:mrian" to grumble, complain;
OHG "ia:mar" misery, lamentation; ON "amra" to howl.
pjk
Paul J Kriha
news:upn8iaw2yz8u$.fgphuwihcbv2$.dlg@40tude.net...
You're not, are you trying to racionalize Dušan's world? Be careful, that
way lies madblahblahgemaedanblahgimeitblahblahmeithaoooooaaaargh.....
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> I can't help thinking of "yammer" and "jabber". :-)
>
> "Yammer" <-- Old English "geo:mrian" to grumble, complain;
> OHG "ia:mar" misery, lamentation; ON "amra" to howl.
These words are related to Serbian žamor (murmur, babble, unrest); all
comes from Gon-Bel-Hor basis: Spanish hablar (to speak, talk, Serbian
govor (speech), zboriti (speak), žubor (purl, babble).
As you see, Serbian žamor could be compared to ne-mir (unrest),
nemiran (restless, turbulant, unquiet) is maybe the same as OE
geomrian.
DV
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote in messagenews:upn8iaw2yz8u$.fgphuwihcbv2$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:38:03 -0700 (PDT), Dušan Vukotić
> > <news:a69b7174-802f-41dc...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
> > in sci.lang:
>
> > > On Mar 15, 2:24 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
> > >> Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
> > >>> Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> > >>> is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> > >>> world, peace).
>
> > >> The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
>
> > > Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
> > > obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
>
> > Apparently time runs backwards in Dušan's world.
>
> You're not, are you trying to racionalize Dušan's world? Be careful, that
> way lies madblahblahgemaedanblahgimeitblahblahmeithaoooooaaaargh.....
>
> pjk
Kriha, are you so immature that you always look for Brany's guiding
hand?
DV
Dušan Vukotić
The sons of Bor carried Ymir to the middle of Ginnungagap and the
world was made from him. Therefore I think it could be related to
Russian mir (world).
The primordial "pre-world" state is described in three levels: Muspel
(fire), Ginnungagap (abys) and Niflheim (realm of mist).
Ginnungagap is a gap (Serb. zjap) or sinus (Serb. zinuti yawn) or
Serb. zinuti zjap (yawning gap);
The history of the word nifl (mist, nebel, nebula, cloud; Serb. nebo
sky) is well known; but the etymology of the word Muspel remains
"unknown"; maybe it is related to Serbian vaseljena (cosmos,
universe), podneblje (under-nifl, uder-sky, climate), Serbian village
Paspalji (from bel-se(b)lje; cf. Serb. uspaljen fiery)?
DV
lora...@cs.com
> On Mar 15, 2:24 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>
> > Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
> > > Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> > > is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> > > world, peace).
>
> > The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
>
> Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
> obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
> similar umi-rati => mreti (pass away, die).
Very doubtful... as Baltic 'mir' (peace) pre-existed.
Dušan Vukotić
>
> - Show quoted text -
Latvian
miers peace
mierīgs peaceful
nerunīgs tacit
nomierināt quiet
Lithuanian
taikus peaceful
tylus tacit
tykumas quiet (also raminti, ramus; possible metathesis from Serbian
mirenje reconciliation)
Lithuanian taika (peace) is related to Serbian tiho, tih (quiet,
tacit) and tišina (silence) and Serbian tiho is related to other
Serbian words as disanje (breathing), duh (ghost), duša (soul); cf.
Serbian udahnuti (inspire); iz-dahnuti (expire), utihnuti (to get
quiet).
Would you try to make a similar comparison in Baltic? Maybe you could
begin with Lith. dvasia (soul, ghost) and Latv. dvēsele (soul)?
DV
lora...@cs.com
> On Mar 18, 7:46 am, lorad...@cs.com wrote:
>
> > On Mar 14, 11:38 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 15, 2:24 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>
> > > > Dušan Vukotić skreiv:
>
> > > > > Maybe, it could be interesting to see if the name of Nordic god Ymir
> > > > > is in any way related to Slavic word mir (Serb. mir peace; Russ. мир
> > > > > world, peace).
>
> > > > The -r of Ymir is the masculine nominative case ending.
>
> > > Of course! But Slavic mir is a compound word. Slavic mir (peace) is
> > > obtained from a compound word umirenje (pacification, mollification);
> > > similar umi-rati => mreti (pass away, die).
>
> > Very doubtful... as Baltic 'mir' (peace) pre-existed.
>
> miers peace
> mierīgs peaceful
> nerunīgs tacit
> nomierināt quiet
>
> Lithuanian
> taikus peaceful
> tylus tacit
> tykumas quiet (also raminti, ramus; possible metathesis from Serbian
> mirenje reconciliation)
Impossible for three reasons...
- Serbian is a recent language; more recent than either Baltic
language
- The only pertinent historic Serbian-Lithuanian language contact was
from Lithuanian to Serbian
(the administrative map makes this clear) http://viduramziu.lietuvos.net/en/
- 'Ramus' cannot be any sort of Serbian metathesis (a crutch you
overuse, anyway), because it is a common Baltic root; 'rams/ramis'
means the same thing in Latvia.
> Lithuanian taika (peace) is related to Serbian tiho, tih (quiet,
> tacit) and tišina (silence) and Serbian tiho is related to other
> Serbian words as disanje (breathing), duh (ghost), duša (soul); cf.
> Serbian udahnuti (inspire); iz-dahnuti (expire), utihnuti (to get
> quiet).
>
> Would you try to make a similar comparison in Baltic? Maybe you could
> begin with Lith. dvasia (soul, ghost) and Latv. dvēsele (soul)?
I don't understand what you are attempting here..
Are you trying to have me improve upon the Lithuanian-Serbian
correspondences that you have already made?
..
Anyway... back to basics.
The Latvian 'mir' pre-existed the Slavic one.
(How Russian subsequently confused 'peace' with 'the world' is beyond
me)
And it is indeed a native Baltic term as it serves as the root in
other Latvian terms:
mirejs, miris, mironis, mirstiiba, mirt...
Dušan Vukotić
> > Lithuanian taika (peace) is related to Serbian tiho, tih (quiet,
> > tacit) and tišina (silence) and Serbian tiho is related to other
> > Serbian words as disanje (breathing), duh (ghost), duša (soul); cf.
> > Serbian udahnuti (inspire); iz-dahnuti (expire), utihnuti (to get
> > quiet).
>
> > Would you try to make a similar comparison in Baltic? Maybe you could
> > begin with Lith. dvasia (soul, ghost) and Latv. dvēsele (soul)?
>
> I don't understand what you are attempting here..
> Are you trying to have me improve upon the Lithuanian-Serbian
> correspondences that you have already made?
No, I wanted you to see that you would not be able to understand the
history of Baltic dvasia/dvēsele without the help of Serbian/Slavic!
DV