Turkish ada 'island'
Dušan Vukotić
Turkish)?
I tried many books but couldn't find anything essential. I would be
very grateful if someone could give me some hints...
Yusuf?
DV
Dušan Vukotić
What is going on with these threads ? I spent a lot of times to find
this message through the profile search option. I thought it was
deleted.
DV
Hans Aberg
> What is going on with these threads ? I spent a lot of times to find
> this message through the profile search option. I thought it was
> deleted.
You are probably using Google groups.
You might try Thunderbird
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/
with the newsserver
news.eternal-september.org
which somebody said is run by the Mozilla people.
Works fine with UTF-8.
Hans
Dušan Vukotić
Thanks! I'll try it.
Yes, I'm using Google groups (Firefox)
But now everything is ok again.
DV
Bart Mathias
I suspect that that somebody meant to say "run by the Motzarella
people." Motzarella recently changed its name due to some kind of
conflict. No connection with Mozilla, but it's what I use, and seems OK.
Hans Aberg
>> You might try Thunderbird
>> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/
>> with the newsserver
>> news.eternal-september.org
>> which somebody said is run by the Mozilla people.
>
> I suspect that that somebody meant to say "run by the Motzarella
> people." Motzarella recently changed its name due to some kind of
> conflict. No connection with Mozilla, but it's what I use, and seems OK.
Good to know. Yes, in the absence of an ISP or paid for service, this
newsserver seems fine. There is one nntp.aioe.org, news.aioe.org, which
was said to be Italian(?), but it showed lots of old article header with
unavailable body every once in a while.
Hans
PaulJK
Since my ISP got tired of providing efficient usenet service I use
motzarella, now called eternal-september. They do a very good job
for free.
Today is September, 5878 1993, the september that never ends :-)
pjk
Yusuf B Gursey
> What is the etymology of theTurkishword "ada" (Serb.ada; fromTurkish)?
yes. Hasan Eren references Abdulah Škaljić for Serbo-Croatian.
his book is "Turcizmi u srpkohrvatskom jeziku (Sarajevo, 1966)"
> I tried many books but couldn't find anything essential. I would be
> very grateful if someone could give me some hints...
> Yusuf?
>
> DV
well, there is H. Eren's turkish etymological dictionary (in turkish)
and Doerfer's Turkic and Mongolic loanwords in New Persian - TMEN (in
german). a loanword in persian as a:da:G (G = *gh*, frequently
represented by greek gamma)
Azeri ada , Turkmen a:da , Kazan Tatar ataw , Bashkir ataw ,
Karakalpak ataw , Chuvash ută (variant: otă) .
Codex Comanicus atov , Chaghatay (the standard of post-mongol
eastern turkic) adaq
the earliest attestation is in Ibn Muhanna's dictionary of eastern
turkic as adaG in the 13th cent. . but it is considerably older than
that (it is archaic) as evidenced by its presence in Chuvash. that
it has been in Chuvash for some time is evidenced by its presence
as a Chuvash loanword in Cheremiss otŏ and Votyak (Udmurt) as oton .
so it is not a loanword in Chuvash from other Turkic languages.
Chuvash is estimated to have diverged from the rest of Turkic
by about 2000 years or so, give or take a couple of centuries.
the reconstructed proto-form given by Doerfer is *a:taG .
nevertheless, many turkic languages have derivatives of Old Turkic
otruG "island". Kazan Tatar normally uses utraw . Chuvash has the
variant utrav which is regarded as a loan from other turkic languages.
probably Kazan Tatar. in Altay (S. Siberia) and Baraba it is ortalIk ,
with variants in neighboring turkic langauges, leading one to suspect
that this word has to do with orta (< ortu, orto) "middle" of
something.
there is also aral "island in other turkic languages, not an old
word.
I assume from ara (?< a:ra) "between, space in between, middle of a
thing, locality".
Yusuf B Gursey
the logic is that early eastern turkic preserves -G / -g
after the second syllable, later eastern turkic transorms
it to -q / -k ,languages like Kazan Tatar, Karakalpak
transform it into -w, Oghuz languages (Turkish, Azeri,Turkmen)
drop it, so does Chuvash, even if the voiced velar is in the
first syllable. Turkmen preserves the orginal long vowels.
OTOH if there was intervocalic -d- Chuvash has the sound
change -d- > *-*dh*- > *-z- > -r-. soit must have been
original -t-. the voiced -d- can be explained as due to
the original long vowel. hence *a:taG .
Dušan Vukotić
Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
<0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
: Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
what was the issue?
: DV
Dušan Vukotić
> In sci.lang Du??an Vukoti?? <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e-a1c3-9cbc458c2...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
>
> : Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
>
> you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
> what was the issue?
>
> : DV
You see... ada is a clear-cut Turkish loanword in Serbian; but there
is another Serbian word for island - otok. Some phonetic similarity
between these two words might, of coarse, be coincidental. On the
other hand, there are the Turkish words dağ 'mountain' and dağlamak
'brand, stigmatize', which might be in a certain mutual relation,
similar to Serbian planina mountain' and pečat 'stamp, seal, impress,
stigma' (from *plekotina, Lat. bulla 'bubble'); the Serbian verbs peći
'burn' and pečat 'stamp, seal, brand' are probable related via the
noun plik 'blister'.
It is a long story and I have no time to explain it in all details,
but the essence is that Turkish dağ and dağlamak are standing in a
similar relation as Serbian planina mountain' vs. pečat 'seal, stamp,
brand', i.e. peći 'burn'.
Sanskrit दह् dah 'burn', dehī́ 'mound' and Pers. daġ 'burn' (Ave.
dax) appeared to be related to both dağ and dağlamak (damga 'stamp'?).
Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)? There is Serbian word denuti
'hay mounting' and denjak 'bale, pack' (Turkish denk 'bale, pack',
denge 'balance'). I don't know if Turkish denk is an original Turkish
word or a loanword from Persian (Skt. दिह् dih 'increase,
accumulate'). In this case, Serbian denjak 'bale' seems to be clearly
derived from denuti/dignuti 'elevate, hoist, heave, pick up' (Serb.
denuti seno 'to stack the hay', and u-tegnuti 'tighten' (Goth. deigan)
but, nevertheless, it cannot be excluded that it has been borrowed
from Turkish.
Lat us now go back to Serbian otok 'bump, island'. This word is
clearly connected to earlier oteklina and odebljanje/zadebljanje
(swelling; all from *h/o-teh-(b)l-hna) and it might be, what is
astonishing, related to ada as well as to Turkish dağ and, possible,
dünya. This might also indicate that Turkic and IE used the same ur-
basis for the all above-mentioned words.
DV
Christopher Culver
> Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
> as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)?
Dünya is a Persian-Arabic loanword, while Turkic daγ is from
Proto-Turkic. No, they are not related.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Oct 6, 9:29 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
> > In sci.lang Du??an Vukoti?? <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > <0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e-a1c3-9cbc458c2...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > : Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
>
> > you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
> > what was the issue?
>
> > : DV
>
> You see... ada is a clear-cut Turkish loanword in Serbian; but there
> is another Serbian word for island - otok. Some phonetic similarity
> between these two words might, of coarse, be coincidental. On the
OTOH if no slavic or IE etymology is found, one could postulate
an Old Bulghar Turkic origin, but -k instead of -g would be a
problem. but that is just speculation.
> other hand, there are the Turkish words dağ 'mountain' and dağlamak
> 'brand, stigmatize', which might be in a certain mutual relation,
> similar to Serbian planina mountain' and pečat 'stamp, seal, impress,
> stigma' (from *plekotina, Lat. bulla 'bubble'); the Serbian verbs peći
> 'burn' and pečat 'stamp, seal, brand' are probable related via the
> noun plik 'blister'.
>
> It is a long story and I have no time to explain it in all details,
> but the essence is that Turkish dağ and dağlamak are standing in a
> similar relation as Serbian planina mountain' vs. pečat 'seal, stamp,
> brand', i.e. peći 'burn'.
> Sanskrit दह् dah 'burn', dehī́ 'mound' and Pers. daġ 'burn' (Ave.
> dax) appeared to be related to both dağ and dağlamak (damga 'stamp'?).
dağ (in the second meaning, from which dağla= is derived) means a
"brand"
and is from persian da:*gh* "brand, scar", but has nothing to do with
dağ "mountain". in Turkmen (which preserves the old turkic long
vowels)
"mountain" da:*gh* also has length, but just coincidence.
though there may be a long range connection between turkic yak=
"to burn" (< *ya-k=) and the Indo-European words for "to burn"
as *d- > * *dh*- > *j- > y- is a generally accepted sound change
by turkologists, altaicists and nostraticists.
an etymology I had heard for damga (tamga in eastern turkic) "stamp,
seal, brand" and is taken to have come from by some from dag-ma
(with -ma a turkic verbal noun suffix), the root being some old
iranian language. but this etymology is not mentioned by Doerfer
who is also an iranist. OTOH another etymology is from the root of
the Old Turkic verb tamI*dh*= "to blaze up" which according to
Clauson
comes from Archaic Chinese *diam (acc. to Karlgren; > Chinese yen)
"flame, blaze"; the old turkic verb surviving in some turkic
languages. the root may be attested in some turkic language, I am
not sure. this etymology is in Doerfer, without the ancient
chinese connection, but he does not seem to give his definite
blessings to it.
>
> Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
no, it is not. dünya is from arabic dunya: originally a feminine
adjective (which can be used as a nounmeaning "nearer,nearest",
(also "lower down") hence "the physical world" as opposed to the
Hereafter, a usage in the Qur'an (with the definite article). but
in the colloquials it is just the "world" of everyday experience. and
in turkish it usually simply "world". the lack of vowel harmony in
the word is a giveaway that it is a loanword.
> as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)? There is Serbian word denuti
> 'hay mounting' and denjak 'bale, pack' (Turkish denk 'bale, pack',
> denge 'balance'). I don't know if Turkish denk is an original Turkish
denk is a reborrowing from persian dang (pronounced like däng) which
in turn is from old turkish de*ng* (eastern turkic te*ng*) "equal".
denge "balance" is a neologism based on these words.
some, like Doerfer, derive it from Chinese têng (no aspiration
indicated, so t- might be slightly voiced as indicated by Menges,
and <ng> represents *ng*) "kind, sort" (a rare loanword in Old
Turkic) but this is rejected by Clauson on semantic grounds, but
accepted by Menges, so Clauson regards it as originally turkic.
> word or a loanword from Persian (Skt. दिह् dih 'increase,
> accumulate'). In this case, Serbian denjak 'bale' seems to be clearly
> derived from denuti/dignuti 'elevate, hoist, heave, pick up' (Serb.
> denuti seno 'to stack the hay', and u-tegnuti 'tighten' (Goth. deigan)
> but, nevertheless, it cannot be excluded that it has been borrowed
> from Turkish.
>
> Lat us now go back to Serbian otok 'bump, island'. This word is
> clearly connected to earlier oteklina and odebljanje/zadebljanje
> (swelling; all from *h/o-teh-(b)l-hna) and it might be, what is
> astonishing, related to ada as well as to Turkish dağ and, possible,
> dünya. This might also indicate that Turkic and IE used the same ur-
for dünya see above.
> basis for the all above-mentioned words.
that is connecting too much.
>
> DV
PaulJK
> On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 9:29 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In sci.lang Du??an Vukoti?? <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> <0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e-a1c3-9cbc458c2...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>>> Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
>>
>>> you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
>>> what was the issue?
>>
>>>> DV
>>
>> You see... ada is a clear-cut Turkish loanword in Serbian; but there
>> is another Serbian word for island - otok. Some phonetic similarity
>> between these two words might, of coarse, be coincidental. On the
>
> OTOH if no slavic or IE etymology is found, one could postulate
> an Old Bulghar Turkic origin, but -k instead of -g would be a
> problem. but that is just speculation.
I am sure Dusan knows that any phonetical similarity is indeed
coincidental. "-tok-" is a pan-Slavic word for "-flow-", "o-" means
about/around, hence "otok" in South Slavic languages = island.
pjk
[...]
benl...@ihug.co.nz
And cf Russian o-strov, formed in the same way from a different 'flow'
root.
Ross Clark
Yusuf B Gursey
:> >> On Oct 6, 9:29 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
:>
:> >>> In sci.lang Du??an Vukoti?? <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in
:> >>> <0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e-a1c3-9cbc458c2...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
:>
:> >>>> Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
:>
:> >>> you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
:> >>> what was the issue?
:>
:> >>>> DV
:>
:> >> You see... ada is a clear-cut Turkish loanword in Serbian; but there
:> >> is another Serbian word for island - otok. Some phonetic similarity
:> >> between these two words might, of coarse, be coincidental. On the
:>
:> > OTOH if no slavic or IE etymology is found, one could postulate
:> > an Old Bulghar Turkic origin, but -k instead of -g would be a
:> > problem. but that is just speculation.
:>
:> I am sure Dusan knows that any phonetical similarity is indeed
:> coincidental. "-tok-" is a pan-Slavic word for "-flow-", "o-" means
:> about/around, hence "otok" in South Slavic languages = island.
:> pjk
:>
:> [...]
: And cf Russian o-strov, formed in the same way from a different 'flow'
: root.
yes, ostrov, I thought so too, thanks
: Ross Clark
PaulJK
Correct. The same word, 'ostrov' meaning island, exists
also in some WSlavic languages, e.g. Czech.
The 'tok' in Czech and Russian means 'current' and lives in
other composite words, e.g. 'potok' = stream/brook.
'otok' in Czech means swelling, as in swollen ankle.
'stoka'=gutter, 'zátoka'=backwater, 'výtok'=outflow,
'vtok'=inflow, etc.
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
As you say Kriha, Slavic otok (Russ. отекать 'swell'; OSl токъ) is
'swelling bloating, bump' and that word, of coarse, is related to tok
'flow' - nobody denies it. But, otok is also related to words like
debljina 'fatness, thickness' and tegljenje 'towing. Tug'. as I said
above, otok is the same word as Serbian oteklina 'swelling' (from *ote
[h]-bl-gn-). In fact, Serb. tegljenje 'tugging' is nothing else but
udaljavanje/_udaljenje_ 'to make a distance, to move away' and it is
clearly related to the movement (flow) of water (Serb. odlinuti 'to
pour out', odlivanje 'decanting' => udaljavanje 'distancing'. Slavic
tok is, in fact, derived from the same basis as the above-mentioned
words, including other words from the root *do(b)l-g- (a variation of
*ohe(h)-bl-gn-), like Serbian dug 'long' (from *dol[b]g-; Russ. долго,
Cz. dlouho, Pol. długi).
DV
Dušan Vukotić
OSl токъ = current, flow
Dušan Vukotić
> Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 6, 9:29 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In sci.lang Du??an Vukoti?? <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>> <0bd3bef2-e3d0-425e-a1c3-9cbc458c2...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >>>> Thank you so much Yusuf. You've really been of great help.
>
> >>> you're welcome. always glad to discuss turkic languages. out of curiosity
> >>> what was the issue?
>
> >>>> DV
>
> >> You see... ada is a clear-cut Turkish loanword in Serbian; but there
> >> is another Serbian word for island - otok. Some phonetic similarity
> >> between these two words might, of coarse, be coincidental. On the
>
> > OTOH if no slavic or IE etymology is found, one could postulate
> > an Old Bulghar Turkic origin, but -k instead of -g would be a
> > problem. but that is just speculation.
>
> I am sure Dusan knows that any phonetical similarity is indeed
> coincidental.
Any...? generally or just in this specific case?
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
> > as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)?
>
> Dünya is a Persian-Arabic loanword,
No, it could hardly be a Persian-Arabic loanword (contardictio in
adjecto?); it might, I suppose, only be either a Persian loanword in
Arabic (via Turkish) or Arabic word that later entered Persian,
through Turkish again.
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Oct 7, 4:54 pm, Christopher Culver <crcul...@christopherculver.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
> > > as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)?
>
> > Dünya is a Persian-Arabic loanword,
>
> No, it could hardly be a Persian-Arabic loanword (contardictio in
many arabic words entered turkish through persian, so a priori there
is no contradiction. I don't think dünya, the arabic dunya: has a
simple
arabic etymology (see my post), is one of them as it is Qur'anic (so
it could have entered through the study of the Qur'an) and persian
prefers a native persian word jaha:n (also jiha:n), that is also used
in turkish, though less frequently, as cihan (also used as a proper
name, whereas dünya isn't). OTOH it is true that many arabic words
came through the intermediary of persian, as they agree in usage and
frequency with persian rather than classical arabic. historically,
the Turks were first introduced to Islam mainly through Persian (or
if you like Tajik, i.e. central asian persians) missionaries. this
is evidenced through the use of persian words for many fundamental
religious terms. so came the initial introduction to arabic, though
of course, Turks began to study classical arabic on their own.
BTW colloquial arabic words in Turkic languages is extremely rare,
in Turkish they are mostly colloquial words as well, and are found
in substantial numbers only in the dialects of Turkish in SW Anatolia.
Iraqi Turkmen, essentially a dialect ofAzeri (not to be confused with
Turkmen of Turkmenistan and adjoining areas), which uses the Turksish
of Turkey for literary purposes, is really the only Turkic language
which has a high degree of colloquial arabic loans and direct arabic
influence not through bookish learning.
> adjecto?); it might, I suppose, only be either a Persian loanword in
> Arabic (via Turkish) or Arabic word that later entered Persian,
persian loanwords through turkish in arabic exist but in modern
arabic, not classical arabic. classical arabic does contain a
non-trivial number of loanwords from middle persian or early
new persian.
> through Turkish again.
arabic words that entered through the intermediary of turkish
are very few in number, most would be 19th century coinages
of ottoman turkish of technical and social terms of modern
technical, social and political life. OTOH persian borrowed
and continues to borrow (although in Iran there was a moderate
purifaction movement) from arabic heavily.
>
> DV
lorad
Which corresponds to the more archaic Latvian 'tek'.. meaning 'to
flow, and 'aptek' meaning 'to flow around'.
lorad
Which corresponds to the more archaic Latvian 'strauve', meaning
'current'.
lorad
'Pateka' meaning 'to flow (a little bit')/'brook' in Latvian.
> 'otok' in Czech means swelling, as in swollen ankle.
> 'stoka'=gutter, 'zátoka'=backwater, 'výtok'=outflow,
> 'vtok'=inflow, etc.
> pjk-
lorad
I think you have confused similar (and even dis-similar) roots again.
These Baltic roots should help if you have enough lateral thinking:
.'Udens' = 'water'
'atdaliit' = 'to separate' usage eg 'to distance oneself from
something'
PS: "On the
other hand, there are the Turkish words dağ 'mountain' and dağlamak
'brand, stigmatize', which might be in a certain mutual relation, .."
No. 'Dag' is just from IE Baltic 'deg' meaning 'burn' - from which
German gets its 'dag' from also.
".. similar to Serbian planina mountain' and pečat 'stamp, seal,
impress,
stigma' (from *plekotina, Lat. bulla 'bubble'); .."
No. I don't know where the 'planina' for mountain came from, but
*plekotina seems to derive from the very real Baltic 'plekot' meaning
to 'lightly hammer'/planish. (compare Latvian 'burbuls' for Latin
'bulla')
"..the Serbian verbs peći
lorad
It means 'wet' or 'damp' in Latvian.
Yusuf B Gursey
nothing to do with the turksih words in question.
Yusuf B Gursey
turkish does not borrow from baltic! but yes, as I said before,
turkish
dağ meaning "brand" (not mountain) comes from persian da:*gh* "brand",
which in turn is related to the IE words.
Yusuf B Gursey
no such language policy was instituted in Afghanistan, but the persian
of Afghanistan (called Dari by the government) has some genuine
survivals of words derived from middle persian that were lost in
persian of Iran (called Farsi by the government). both modern
languages have many laonwords from various turkic languages, in Iran
including some from the Ottoman Turkish.
>
>
>
>
>
> > DV
Dušan Vukotić
Serbian optok, optakati, opticati, opticaj (the same meaning:
'circulation'). All this words are coming from *obl-te(h)- 'a round
movement, turning'; cf. Serb. obilaziti/obla-ziti 'bypass'.
DV
Dušan Vukotić
What? Dünya?
Dušan Vukotić
Is it not straume and strāva 'current'?
DV
Dušan Vukotić
Lithuanian seems to be much more "archaic" than Latvian (Lith. srovė,
tėkmė 'current', like in Slavic). What do you think?
DV
Dušan Vukotić
> On Oct 8, 7:00 pm, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 7, 4:54 pm, Christopher Culver <crcul...@christopherculver.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > Now the question is, is Turkish dağ related to dünya 'world' (similar
> > > > as Latin globus is a kind of swelling)?
>
> > > Dünya is a Persian-Arabic loanword,
>
> > No, it could hardly be a Persian-Arabic loanword (contardictio in
>
> many arabic words entered turkish through persian, so a priori there
> is no contradiction.
I suppose you are right. I was thinking about that (borrowing and re-
borrowing) process more "geographically".
>I don't think dünya, the arabic dunya: has a
> simple
> arabic etymology (see my post), is one of them as it is Qur'anic (so
> it could have entered through the study of the Qur'an) and persian
> prefers a native persian word jaha:n (also jiha:n), that is also used
> in turkish, though less frequently, as cihan (also used as a proper
> name, whereas dünya isn't).
Maybe, the Sanskrit word चिह्न cihna 'sign, mark, stamp' could be of
some help here. I am more than sure that Serbian znak 'sign' is a
cognate of Latin signum signi as well as I am sure that znak was
derived from the same basis as zemlja 'earth' (zemnik = znak 'sign';
sign originally meant "an object on the land that marks the border of
something"). There is another Skr. word सञ्चक sañcaka 'stamp, mould',
a possible cognate of Turkish sancak 'sanjak, district, flag, ensign';
cf. OTur. sanç- 'pain, twinge, _stitch_'; a similar logic as Serbian
ubod 'stitch' vs. obod 'margin, border'). Now we can speculate about
Turkish cihan (derived from the OPers. gēhān 'universe') as to be
related to Greek γη, 'earth', γέηθεν 'from the earth', ModGr. γήινος
'earthly'.
Sign (znak, oznaka, Tur. simba from signum or more plausible fro Gr.
σύμβολον 'symbol', which the same word as the above-mentioned Serbian
zemnik, from *he-m[b]l-gnik => zemljanik => zemnik => znak) is also
related to znanje 'knowlede' and hence, probably, the Serbian word
zanat 'art, ploy, craft, trade' (Skr. jñata 'knowledge'; Serb. znati
'to know how'; zanimati se 'to be interested in'). In fact, the words
znanje 'knowledge' is logically connected to the words znak/oznaka
'sign' because we can not acquire any new knowledge without the
learning the "signs' first; and, at the dawn of humankind, those signs
were the signs that were put/found on Earth (na zemlji; zemlja
'earth'; Serb. znamen, znamenje, znak 'sign').
Of course, I do not know is it possible to draw a similar parallel
among these words in Arabic (sancat 'craft' etc.)?
DV