questions for yusuf b gursey
man06
some ppl make up strange links between qur'anic arabic words and
hebrew words.
for example a person assumed the BAKKA of the Qur'an is really the
BAKKAH of the hebrew bible.what i want to knw is why assume this? is
it because they sound the same? it is true that hebrew is very close
to arabic , but the roots for both terms are different, right?
what methods do etymologists use to prove or disprove links between
words?
Yusuf B Gursey
bakka(t) for makka(t) i.e. Makkah / Mecca is indeed unusual. one
theory is that they are both contractions of a longer, now forgotten
name. the association with the biblical valley is just pious exegesis,
islamic efforts to find a Biblical antecedent for Makkah. I don't
think there s a person of that name.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Nov 23, 11:18 am, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Greetings Yusuf
>
> > some ppl make up strange links between qur'anic arabic words and
> > hebrew words.
> > for example a person assumed the BAKKA of the Qur'an is really the
> > BAKKAH of the hebrew bible.what i want to knw is why assume this? is
> > it because they sound the same? it is true that hebrew is very close
> > to arabic , but the roots for both terms are different, right?
it's the "Valley of Baca" (Heb ba:ka: [bA*kh*A]). there is no
gemination on the /k/ in Hebrew, so at least formally they are of
different roots.
> > what methods do etymologists use to prove or disprove links between
> > words?
>
> bakka(t) for makka(t) i.e. Makkah / Mecca is indeed unusual. one
> theory is that they are both contractions of a longer, now forgotten
so Enc. of the Qur'an "Mecca" by J. Chabbi
perhaps the original name was something like Macroba (the place
mentioned by Ptolemy)
man06
i have more questions.
yudh'hiba
some have interpreted "yudh'hiba" to mean "KEEP AWAY," i think because
of dogmatical reasons.How does the Qur'an understand the word?
man06
AHZAB V 33
i read the verb is in the subjunctive mood
LI UDHIBA
"...the subjunctive mood is a verb mood typically used in dependent
clauses to express wishes, commands, emotion, possibility, judgment,
opinion, necessity, or statements that are contrary to fact at
present. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it
often follows a conjunction. "
NOTE the words "...CONTRARY to fact at present."Does this mean that
"ARijsah" IS NOT removed yet,but WILL be removed, because ALLAH (swt)
WISHES to remove it?
thanks
man06
the words "yudhiBA" "rijSA" "yutahiRA"
i see that the capitalized words have fatha mark .
"yutahiRA" i think is mansuub
this means their CURRENT state is not purified yet, BUT ALLAH WILL
purify them.
is this understanding correct?
alan
> On 20 Dec, 20:11, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 20 Dec, 19:27, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Greetings Yusuf
>
> > > i have more questions.
>
> > > yudh'hiba
>
> > > some have interpreted "yudh'hiba" to mean "KEEP AWAY," i think because
> > > of dogmatical reasons.How does the Qur'an understand the word?
My apologies for answering a question you directed to Yusuf, but AFAIK,
yu_dh_hiba
(يُذْهِبَ ) would have the meaning of take away, remove, make something or
someone disappear, and it is in that sense used in the qur'an. I am unaware
of anyone's attempt to justify its meaning as "keep away".
>
> > AHZAB V 33
>
> > i read the verb is in the subjunctive mood
>
> > LI UDHIBA
>
> > "...the subjunctive mood is a verb mood typically used in dependent
> > clauses to express wishes, commands, emotion, possibility, judgment,
> > opinion, necessity, or statements that are contrary to fact at
> > present. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it
> > often follows a conjunction. "
>
> > NOTE the words "...CONTRARY to fact at present."Does this mean that
> > "ARijsah" IS NOT removed yet,but WILL be removed, because ALLAH (swt)
> > WISHES to remove it?
>
> > thanks
In order to ascertain meaning, it is always better to take into
consideration the context of the entire sentence, rather than focusing on a
couple of its words:
إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيُذۡهِبَ عَنڪُمُ ٱلرِّجۡسَ أَهۡلَ ٱلۡبَيۡتِ
وَيُطَهِّرَكُمۡ تَطۡهِيرً۬ا
("God wishes to remove uncleanness from you, Folk of the Household, and
cleanse you with a cleansing.")
It merely states that God *wants* to, not that he *will*. The issue of
whether or not God in fact will do everything he wants to is a theological
issue, and not one to be decided by linguistic or grammatical analysis.
> the words "yudhiBA" "rijSA" "yutahiRA"
>
> i see that the capitalized words have fatha mark .
>
> "yutahiRA" i think is mansuub
> this means their CURRENT state is not purified yet, BUT ALLAH WILL
> purify them.
> is this understanding correct?
No, it is not correct. There is nothing in that sentence that implies what
God *will* do ---- merely what he *wants* to do . . .
Yusuf B Gursey
there does not seem to be the meaning "keep away". the primary meaning
is "to cause to go away". hence "make disappear", "remove", "eliminate"
Yusuf B Gursey
> On 20 Dec, 19:27, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Greetings Yusuf
>
> > i have more questions.
>
> > yudh'hiba
>
> > some have interpreted "yudh'hiba" to mean "KEEP AWAY," i think because
> > of dogmatical reasons.How does the Qur'an understand the word?
>
> AHZAB V 33
>
> i read the verb is in the subjunctive mood
>
> LI UDHIBA
that would just make it into the first person, not the 3rd person
perfect.
>
> "...the subjunctive mood is a verb mood typically used in dependent
> clauses to express wishes, commands, emotion, possibility, judgment,
> opinion, necessity, or statements that are contrary to fact at
> present. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it
> often follows a conjunction. "
>
> NOTE the words "...CONTRARY to fact at present."Does this mean that
> "ARijsah" IS NOT removed yet,but WILL be removed, because ALLAH (swt)
the word used is rijs.
there is no "will", but "wishes", at least in grammatical terms. the
subjunctive is used to express wishes. it is not a future form, except
in negative sentences with lan , in which case it is an emphatic
denial of the future. as alan points out whether God will carry out
His wishes is a theological issue, not a grammatical one.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On 20 Dec, 20:11, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 Dec, 19:27, man06 <bnh_2...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Greetings Yusuf
>
> > > i have more questions.
>
> > > yudh'hiba
>
> > > some have interpreted "yudh'hiba" to mean "KEEP AWAY," i think because
> > > of dogmatical reasons.How does the Qur'an understand the word?
>
> > AHZAB V 33
>
> > i read the verb is in the subjunctive mood
>
> > LI UDHIBA
>
> > "...the subjunctive mood is a verb mood typically used in dependent
> > clauses to express wishes, commands, emotion, possibility, judgment,
> > opinion, necessity, or statements that are contrary to fact at
> > present. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it
> > often follows a conjunction. "
>
> > NOTE the words "...CONTRARY to fact at present."Does this mean that
> > "ARijsah" IS NOT removed yet,but WILL be removed, because ALLAH (swt)
> > WISHES to remove it?
>
> > thanks
>
> the words "yudhiBA" "rijSA" "yutahiRA"
it's yut.ahhira
>
> i see that the capitalized words have fatha mark .
>
> "yutahiRA" i think is mansuub
> this means their CURRENT state is not purified yet, BUT ALLAH WILL
> purify them.
> is this understanding correct?
God wishes to eliminate rijs (uncleanliness, or as Yusuf Ali puts it
"abomination") and God wishes to purify them (the 'ahl al bayt, the
Family, i.e. of the Prophet).
Yusuf B Gursey
I agree.
man06
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hello Yusuf and Alan
the reason why i started this thread was because some one tried to
argue that "yudhiba" means "KEEP AWAY". i thought that his redefining
of the word will make "TAHirA" confusing.if rijsah is KEPT away from
them and they are THR/SAFF right from birth, what is the point in God
wanting to "yuthira" them?
you confirmed what i thought before i started this thread. its not a
"Will do" but "wishes/wants to do" this is what i thought.
any input on this?
Yusuf B Gursey
Tahhara , in the causative
> them and they are THR/SAFF right from birth, what is the point in God
> wanting to "yuthira" them?
yes.
> you confirmed what i thought before i started this thread. its not a
> "Will do" but "wishes/wants to do" this is what i thought.
yes.
> any input on this?