Maybe OT, but

[anal...@hotmail.com]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gingrich-hits-romney-knowing-speak-french-150300235.html

Just how dumb must the makers of this ad think Republican primary
voters are to present a rival's ability to speak French as a negative
(politicians of all stripes pander to Hispanic voters by speaking good
bad or indifferent Spanish during campaigns and it considered to be
OK)?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 16, 9:54 pm, "analys...@hotmail.com" <analys...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gingrich-hits-romney-knowing-speak...

>
> Just how dumb must the makers of this ad think Republican primary
> voters are to present a rival's ability to speak French as a negative
> (politicians of all stripes pander to Hispanic voters by speaking good
> bad or indifferent Spanish during campaigns and it considered to be
> OK)?

You obviously know nothing of recent American history and politics.
Shoemaker, stick to your last.

Except we haven't a clue what your "last" may be.

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

It was my impression that the OP was asking a _question_ about
American politics. I too was puzzled when I heard this. Perhaps you
could give us the benefit of your knowledge of recent American history
and politics, and explain why speaking French should be considered
unseemly in a presidential candidate. Or is "speaking French" a code
for something else?

[Pierre Jelenc]

benl...@ihug.co.nz <benl...@ihug.co.nz> writes:
>
> Or is "speaking French" a code for something else?

Being an effete "Old Europe" big-government collectivist, for one.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Nathan Sanders]

In article
<b7695386-3506-4435...@hs8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Note that in general, it's only considered unseemly by a certain
portion of the (ultra-)conservative part of the country. Americans
are mostly monolingual, and this particular brand of conservatives
tends to be very xenophobic, because of their blind belief in
"American exceptionalism":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

They also tend not to be well-educated and thus are distrustful of
those who are. So any politician (especially a Democrat or moderate
Republican) who is multilingual will be seen by these voters as
unAmerican and part of the dreaded educated elite.

As for why French specifically is a target, hatred of the French has a
long history in the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States

These same issues all came up 8 years ago when John Kerry, who is
fluent in French, was the Democratic nominee for President.

Nathan

--
Department of Linguistics
Swarthmore College
http://sanders.phonologist.org/

[yangg]

On Jan 17, 7:13 am, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <b7695386-3506-4435-b18c-b7ad73fa8...@hs8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

***

Needless to say that French-bashing obsessions have nothing
exceptional.

More seriously a political agenda that * needs * hatred of some
external force/group of persons has a problem.
This betrays the absence of a positive program, that would make hatred
off the mark, and a severe decay into various forms of fascism.

Unfortunately it would seem that the USA has become one of the worst
propagators of fascism, mass torture, illegal deportation and colonial-
imperial adventures.

And sooner or later we'll talk about what is touted as a "liberation"
of Iraq and what is in fact a genocide: one or two millions civilian
casualties, about two or three millions refugees, whole areas strewn
with radioactive bomb debris, which cause numerous new-born monsters.
The Iraqi genocide is worse than the 1915 Armenian genocide.

A.

[yangg]

On Jan 17, 7:13 am, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <b7695386-3506-4435-b18c-b7ad73fa8...@hs8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>
>

> As for why French specifically is a target, hatred of the French has a
> long history in the US:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States
>
> These same issues all came up 8 years ago when John Kerry, who is
> fluent in French, was the Democratic nominee for President.
>
> Nathan
>

***

A French judge has just requested to visit Guantanamo in relationship
with accusations made by 3 Frenchmen that they have been tortured and
detained for months in that place. The judge wants to investigate
these issues.

I expect some new bout of fun.

A.

[anal...@hotmail.com]

On Jan 17, 1:13 am, Nathan Sanders <sand...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <b7695386-3506-4435-b18c-b7ad73fa8...@hs8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>

> Swarthmore Collegehttp://sanders.phonologist.org/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Apparently not in your neck of the woods:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091213184838AAAN4jB

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 16, 11:39 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

> On Jan 17, 5:29 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 9:54 pm, "analys...@hotmail.com" <analys...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gingrich-hits-romney-knowing-speak...
>
> > > Just how dumb must the makers of this ad think Republican primary
> > > voters are to present a rival's ability to speak French as a negative
> > > (politicians of all stripes pander to Hispanic voters by speaking good
> > > bad or indifferent Spanish during campaigns and it considered to be
> > > OK)?
>
> > You obviously know nothing of recent American history and politics.
> > Shoemaker, stick to your last.
>
> > Except we haven't a clue what your "last" may be.
>
> It was my impression that the OP was asking a _question_ about

analys... never "ask[s a simple] _question_." His or her agenda is
always to tout the inadequacies of all things non-Sanskrit.

> American politics. I too was puzzled when I heard this. Perhaps you
> could give us the benefit of your knowledge of recent American history
> and politics, and explain why speaking French should be considered
> unseemly in a presidential candidate. Or is "speaking French" a code
> for something else?

Have you really never heard of "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"?
(Spoken by the Scotsman Willie the Groundskeeper on The Simpsons
nearly 20 years ago.)

Did you not hear Newt Gingrich's explanation that he was merely
pointing out the inadequacies of "Massachusetts Moderate" Mitt Romney,
this example being placing him next to John Kerry also saying
something in extremely inadequate French? (Apparently Romney did his
Mormon "missionary" work in France many years ago.)

Do you not recall that a rightwing Congress required the US Capitol
cafeteria to rename french fries as "freedom fries" when France
refused to participate in the Gulf War of 1991?

[yangg]

***

You idiotic asshole,

France, under the guidance of Mitterand's Socialist rule, * did * take
part in the first 1991 Gulf war against Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

You lousy bastard are confusing the first Gulf 1991 war with the G. W.
Bush's 2003 Genocide war on Iraq.

Anyway, if it were still necessary, this shows where you stand, you
asshole fraud.

A.

[Nathan Sanders]

In article
<a3c9696d-760d-4af9...@a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,

> Apparently not in your neck of the woods:
>
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091213184838AAAN4jB

That person is not a politician.

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

On Jan 18, 3:27 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 16, 11:39 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 5:29 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > On Jan 16, 9:54 pm, "analys...@hotmail.com" <analys...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gingrich-hits-romney-knowing-speak...
>
> > > > Just how dumb must the makers of this ad think Republican primary
> > > > voters are to present a rival's ability to speak French as a negative
> > > > (politicians of all stripes pander to Hispanic voters by speaking good
> > > > bad or indifferent Spanish during campaigns and it considered to be
> > > > OK)?
>
> > > You obviously know nothing of recent American history and politics.
> > > Shoemaker, stick to your last.
>
> > > Except we haven't a clue what your "last" may be.
>
> > It was my impression that the OP was asking a _question_ about
>
> analys... never "ask[s a simple] _question_."

As you punctuate, I didn't say "simple". And the (formal) question was
more rhetorical than anything else.

>His or her agenda is
> always to tout the inadequacies of all things non-Sanskrit.

In this case the dumbness of certain sectors of American politics. I
think the matter was sufficiently on-topic for sci.lang, but your
reply failed to expand on it. Try to keep in mind that some of us,
through no fault of our own, live in foreign countries, and are not
kept abreast of every nuance of American politics.

>
> > American politics. I too was puzzled when I heard this. Perhaps you
> > could give us the benefit of your knowledge of recent American history
> > and politics, and explain why speaking French should be considered
> > unseemly in a presidential candidate. Or is "speaking French" a code
> > for something else?
>
> Have you really never heard of "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"?
> (Spoken by the Scotsman Willie the Groundskeeper on The Simpsons
> nearly 20 years ago.)

Well, yes, I have. So certain parts of the American population have
still not got over this childish episode?

> Did you not hear Newt Gingrich's explanation that he was merely
> pointing out the inadequacies of "Massachusetts Moderate" Mitt Romney,
> this example being placing him next to John Kerry also saying
> something in extremely inadequate French? (Apparently Romney did his
> Mormon "missionary" work in France many years ago.)

No, I don't think I did (see note above).
I do recall some sort of media report of this particular moment, to
which I was not necessarily paying full attention. I did hear a bite
of someone (perhaps Kerry?) saying "Laissez bons temps rouler", which
if I'm not mistaken is a familiar saying from Louisiana, where there
are quite a few French speakers. I wonder how all this plays in Cajun
country?

> Do you not recall that a rightwing Congress required the US Capitol
> cafeteria to rename french fries as "freedom fries" when France
> refused to participate in the Gulf War of 1991?

Re-read comment on Simpsons catchphrase.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 17, 12:33 pm, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 3:27 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 16, 11:39 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz>
> > wrote:
>
> > Do you not recall that a rightwing Congress required the US Capitol
> > cafeteria to rename french fries as "freedom fries" when France
> > refused to participate in the Gulf War of 1991?
>
> ***
>
> You idiotic asshole,
>
> France, under the guidance of Mitterand's Socialist rule, * did * take
> part in the first 1991 Gulf war against Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
>
> You lousy bastard are confusing the first Gulf 1991 war with the G. W.
> Bush's 2003 Genocide war on Iraq.

Different bush. So what? The Gulf War was no more legitimate.

[yangg]

> Re-read comment on Simpsons catchphrase.-
***

This phrase was first said in 1995, four years after after the first
Iraq-gulf war.

But PTD, the idiotic fraud, seems to alzheimerize all years together
in a huge mess.

A.

[yangg]

> Different bush. So what? The Gulf War was no more legitimate.-
***

The first Gulf war in 1991 had a full mandate for the United-Nations
Organization and it was not about torturing and deporting people.

Got it, Alzheimer?

A.

[anal...@hotmail.com]

> Re-read comment on Simpsons catchphrase.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And PTD misses the point. Till recently 'Ted Kennedy' was invoked in
the American South to bring out visceral feelings. Kennedy is now
dead and at any rate Romney ran against him. However -
"Massachusetts' is sufficiently venomous to Southern Republican
primary voters and the French-speaking adds nothing to suggest 'he is
not one of us'.

All the "surrender monkey", 'freedom fries' stuff was mostly the
province of rabid right-wing talk radio types and didn't resonate very
long with average bubbas.

[Tak To]

In 1988, in one of the debates for the Rupblican
nominee for the presidential race, George Bush
the senior humiliated opponent Dupont decisively
by calling him by his real name -- Pierre.
(Dupont was campaigning under the name Pete.)

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[anal...@hotmail.com]

On Jan 20, 3:08 pm, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:

>  [taode takto ~{LU5B~}]      NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

In the words of NY Times columnist Charles Blow

"Gingrich is appealing to (and exposing) an ugly, gut-level anger and
animosity among a sizable portion of the Republican electorate."

"Democrat party", "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" etc. are the linguistic
expressions of this ugliness and yes "Pierre" for "Pete" would be a
milder example. Shakespeare was wrong of course ("whats in a name")
- even in everyday life I have heard "Stanley" for "Stan" or "Steven"
for 'Steve" as needling devices.

[Tak To]

> In the words of NY Times columnist Charles Blow
>
> "Gingrich is appealing to (and exposing) an ugly, gut-level anger and
> animosity among a sizable portion of the Republican electorate."

It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt"
is so obviously an easy target for ridicule that
no one dares to use it publicly. (OTOH I don't
know how anybody called "Newt" can survive
high school.)

> "Democrat party", "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" etc. are the linguistic
> expressions of this ugliness and yes "Pierre" for "Pete" would be a
> milder example.

Yes, but since "Pierre" is really his actual name
there is no way for him to parry.

> Shakespeare was wrong of course ("whats in a name")
> - even in everyday life I have heard "Stanley" for "Stan" or "Steven"
> for 'Steve" as needling devices.

??What needling power does "Stanley" and "Steven"
have?? (Sorry, I didn't attend high school in the
US.)

Btw, is it my impression or fact that there are
more Stephen's in Rightpondia than Steven's?

Ethnic first names are easy targets. Even at the
peak of Mario Cuomo's political career there was
still sayings that no one called "Mario" would be
elected President of the US.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 21, 12:58 pm, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:

> On 1/21/2012 7:59 AM, analys...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 20, 3:08 pm, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:

> >> In 1988, in one of the debates for the Rupblican
> >> nominee for the presidential race, George Bush
> >> the senior humiliated opponent Dupont decisively
> >> by calling him by his real name -- Pierre.
> >> (Dupont was campaigning under the name Pete.)
>
> > In the words of NY Times columnist Charles Blow
>
> > "Gingrich is appealing to (and exposing) an ugly, gut-level anger and
> > animosity among a sizable portion of the Republican electorate."
>
> It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt"
> is so obviously an easy target for ridicule that
> no one dares to use it publicly.  (OTOH I don't
> know how anybody called "Newt" can survive
> high school.)

(Did you miss Michelle Bachmann's "Newt Romney" kick? She was claiming
that their policies were identical, and also playing off "Knute
Rockne.")

His name is Newton. (On the basis of which, many people suppose that
Romney's name is Mitten. It's actually Willard; Mitt is his middle
name.)

As a boy he was probably more concerned about being teased as a very
well known fig cookie than as a little-known salamander.

> > "Democrat party", "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" etc. are the linguistic
> > expressions of this ugliness and yes "Pierre" for "Pete" would be a
> > milder example.
>
> Yes, but since "Pierre" is really his actual name
> there is no way for him to parry.
>
> > Shakespeare was wrong of course ("whats in a name")
> > - even in everyday life I have heard "Stanley" for "Stan" or "Steven"
> > for 'Steve" as needling devices.
>
> ??What needling power does "Stanley" and "Steven"
> have??  (Sorry, I didn't attend high school in the
> US.)

When your mother uses your full name, she's not pleased with your
behavior.

> Btw, is it my impression or fact that there are
> more Stephen's in Rightpondia than Steven's?
>
> Ethnic first names are easy targets.  Even at the
> peak of Mario Cuomo's political career there was
> still sayings that no one called "Mario" would be
> elected President of the US.

And no one has.

His son Andrew, the wildly popular governor of New York, looks like a
contender in '16.

[Joe Fineman]

Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> writes:

> It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt" is so obviously an
> easy target for ridicule that no one dares to use it publicly.
> (OTOH I don't know how anybody called "Newt" can survive high
> school.)

Why? When I lived in Virginia, newts were sweet, utterly harmless
little reddish-orange animals. It annoyed me that Mr Gingrich
(already infamous) could be so called.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: People, not peoples, have rights. :||

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 21, 5:44 pm, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> writes:
> > It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt" is so obviously an
> > easy target for ridicule that no one dares to use it publicly.
> > (OTOH I don't know how anybody called "Newt" can survive high
> > school.)
>
> Why?  When I lived in Virginia, newts were sweet, utterly harmless
> little reddish-orange animals.  It annoyed me that Mr Gingrich
> (already infamous) could be so called.

To this day, Isaac Newton is considered one of the greatest intellects
of all time. That should be an even further cause of annoyance by his
name!

The BBC made the impressive margin of his South Carolina victory today
the top story on its 11 pm (0400 UT, she said -- how did we get 7 hr
behind?) "bulletin" and the ensuing news hour. But they have still not
said what that margin was!

[Pierre Jelenc]

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> The BBC made the impressive margin of his South Carolina victory today
> the top story on its 11 pm (0400 UT, she said -- how did we get 7 hr
> behind?) "bulletin" and the ensuing news hour. But they have still not
> said what that margin was!

CBS says (with almost all counted) Gingrich 40%, Romney 28%, Santorum
17%, Paul 13%.

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

At least he probably never had the expression "pissed as a newt" to
deal with. Is there any story (plausible or entertaining) to explain
how this inoffensive amphibian became associated with extreme
intoxication?

[pauljk]

<benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c01b138f-9103-4fcf...@nu6g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

I always thought it was hinting at the way drunken people walk,
like newts swimming in a zigzag motion. I may have heard it said
but I have no references.

pjk

[Joe Fineman]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:

> On Jan 21, 5:44 pm, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> writes:
>> > It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt" is so obviously an
>> > easy target for ridicule that no one dares to use it publicly.
>> > (OTOH I don't know how anybody called "Newt" can survive high
>> > school.)
>>
>> Why?  When I lived in Virginia, newts were sweet, utterly harmless
>> little reddish-orange animals.  It annoyed me that Mr Gingrich
>> (already infamous) could be so called.
>
> To this day, Isaac Newton is considered one of the greatest
> intellects of all time. That should be an even further cause of
> annoyance by his name!

Despite long acquaintance with physicists, I have never heard him
referred to as Newt. It is, however, recorded that at Los Alamos they
used to call neutrons neuts.

--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: One martini is just right. Two are too many, and three are :||
||: not enough. :||

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Jan 22, 9:34 am, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:

> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> > On Jan 21, 5:44 pm, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> writes:
> >> > It is ironic that Gingrich's first name "Newt" is so obviously an
> >> > easy target for ridicule that no one dares to use it publicly.
> >> > (OTOH I don't know how anybody called "Newt" can survive high
> >> > school.)
>
> >> Why?  When I lived in Virginia, newts were sweet, utterly harmless
> >> little reddish-orange animals.  It annoyed me that Mr Gingrich
> >> (already infamous) could be so called.
>
> > To this day, Isaac Newton is considered one of the greatest
> > intellects of all time. That should be an even further cause of
> > annoyance by his name!
>
> Despite long acquaintance with physicists, I have never heard him
> referred to as Newt.  It is, however, recorded that at Los Alamos they
> used to call neutrons neuts.

They might have called Isaac Newton Ike, just as they call Newton
Gingrich Newt.