Caucasus - a Germanic name?
Mistranslator
I am wondering what is the origin of the word "Caucasus".
Now I find in the Online Etymology Dictionary
(http://www.etymonline.com/h4etym.htm) that the ancient Germanic word
for "high" was Kaukhaz. And there are also Lithuanian words: kaukas
for "fir-cone" and kaukara for "hill".
So, is it possible the Caucasus was named by Germanic or Baltic tribes
who lived nearby?
Thanks for help
Merlijn De Smit
Well, what I've heard is that the word Caucasus stems from a term
"Mountain of Languages" but I've heard the same claim made as for
Dagestan. Someone else should comment on this - on the face of it, I
wouldn't look for a Germanic source of the name. Germanic and Baltic
tribes did not perhaps live that far away, but not exactly nearby
either. As to your Germanic root - *kaukaz would, I believe, be really
pre-Germanic or extremely early proto-Germanic, with actual
proto-Germanic being *xauxaz or *hauhaz from which German hoch,
English high and so forth. If I recall correctly, Ante Aikio from Oulu
recently suggested that the Germanic term has been preserved in
Finnish quite well as kauas, kaukaa- "long".
My own pet theory is that "Caucasus" is a borrowing from the Finnish
"kaukaisuus" 'distance' since the Caucasus is a really long way from
Finland.
M.
Igor Sklar
> My own pet theory is that "Caucasus" is a borrowing from the Finnish
> "kaukaisuus" 'distance' since the Caucasus is a really long way from
> Finland.
Why not? :->
Would you believe it, "Siberia" has a Hunnic root. The country got its
name from the Sabirs (=Suvars? Chuvash?), a Hunnic tribe mentioned by
Procopius and Menandros.
Hopefully Yusuf will comment on this point.
regards
mb
> Well, what I've heard is that the word Caucasus stems from a term
> "Mountain of Languages" but I've heard the same claim made as for
> Dagestan.
No "language" in Daghestan = mountain country.
> My own pet theory is that "Caucasus" is a borrowing from the Finnish
> "kaukaisuus" 'distance' since the Caucasus is a really long way from
> Finland.
That's a nice one, almost as good another one that was once invoked to
settle yet another claim to Turkish origins, "Karjala" meaning "lick
the snow".
In the same series there was of course a Turkish claim to the Caucasus
(Kafkas), too. It only takes a little phonetic distortion, Kaf is the
name of a mythical mountain in Turkish fairy tales, has is "genuine",
et voilà.
Toni Keskitalo
[s]
> My own pet theory is that "Caucasus" is a borrowing from the Finnish
> "kaukaisuus" 'distance' since the Caucasus is a really long way from
> Finland.
I remember seeing on a map that there's a place called "Coucana" or
something like that next to the Michigan lake. That is also clearly
from Finnish: "kaukana" 'far away'!
Toni
--
# NB! You should replace ".invalid" with ".fi" when e-mailing me #
"Jos aivastan, koko seinä kaikuu." (Tommi Liimatta)
Jacques Guy
> I remember seeing on a map that there's a place called "Coucana" or
> something like that next to the Michigan lake. That is also clearly
> from Finnish: "kaukana" 'far away'!
And there's a lake nearby, and we know that "lake" is
found as "ko" both in Japan and in British Columbia
(Phil Deitiker, pub.com.). Now "Coucana" has "Co"
in it, and Finnish "kaukana" has "kau" in it, which
is pretty close to "ko".
Not only that, but your own name "Keskitalo" is
obviously French "qu'est-ce que t'as? l'eau?"
[kEsk@talo] i.e. "What's that you've got? Water?"
And lakes, as we all know, are full of water.
Proof positive of the ultimate unity of Finnish,
Japanese, French, and whatever languages were spoken
in British Columbia and in Michigan.
Nostratic is looking better and better by the
minute.
Igor Sklar
> Would you believe it, "Siberia" has a Hunnic root. The country got its
> name from the Sabirs (=Suvars? Chuvash?), a Hunnic tribe mentioned by
> Procopius and Menandros.
>
> Hopefully Yusuf will comment on this point.
>
> regards
As Yusuf is nowhere around, I will comment myself :-)
I made some inquiries, and it appears that the ethnonym "Sabir" is
connected with the Mongolian word for 'damp terrain, thicket' /s'iwr?/
The city of Seber, or Seberqala ('the fortress of the Sabirs') was
first mentioned by the 13th-century Persian historian Rashid ad-Din.
It became the capital of the Tatar khanate of Sibir, hence the name
for the country.
regards
Igor Sklar
> Hello to everyone,
>
> I am wondering what is the origin of the word "Caucasus".
I believe the origin is Scythian.
Click http://tinyurl.com/4o3dw for more info.
regards
Yusuf B Gursey
> > My own pet theory is that "Caucasus" is a borrowing from the Finnish
> > "kaukaisuus" 'distance' since the Caucasus is a really long way from
> > Finland.
>
> Why not? :->
>
> Would you believe it, "Siberia" has a Hunnic root. The country got its
> name from the Sabirs (=Suvars? Chuvash?), a Hunnic tribe mentioned by
> Procopius and Menandros.
IIRC Peter Golden believes they spoke "standard Turkic"
but it may be challenged, their name ends with the collective
suffix -r rather than "standard" -z
the etymology of "chuvash" is debated.
>
> Hopefully Yusuf will comment on this point.
>
Yusuf is on a vacation in Turkey after attending a conference
there, and has limited internet access until mid-October.
I will rejoin you onm a regulşar basis then.
> regards
Yusuf B Gursey
the qa:f mountain appears in early Islamic literature
the Qur'an (?) and is a garbled account of the Caucasus.
Yusuf B Gursey
yes, IIRC the widely accepted etymology is "Icy Mouıntains"
from Iranian, so in Enc. Iranica
Yusuf B Gursey
see:
From: e.karlo...@uea.ac.uk (Vassil Karloukovski)
Newsgroups:
alt.history.ancient-worlds,soc.culture.turkish,soc.history.ancient
Subject: Re: Saka tribes and Scythians problem
Date: 15 Aug 2000 16:37:22 GMT
Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, UK
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <8nbrk2$ou5$1...@cpca14.uea.ac.uk>
References: <1ed0huc.3dikbixbybncN%tt0...@bcmail.brooklyn.cuny.edu>
<8jim48$mmb$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Here is one example of Scythian glosses occasionally reported by
the ancient authors. Pliny (NH VI, 50) has:
" ... Scythae ipsi Persas Chorsaros et Caucasum Croucasim, hoc
est nive candidum..."
" ...The Scythians themselves (call) the Persians Chorsar-,
and the Caucasus - Croucasi-, that is "white from snow".
"Croucasi" for the Caucasus from the Iranian *xrohu, shining ice.
(W. Eilers, M. Mayhofer, Namenkundliche Zeugnisse der indischen
Wanderung? Eine Nachpruefung, Die Sprache, VI, 1960, S. 116-117).
mb
> > In the same series there was of course a Turkish claim to the Caucasus
> > (Kafkas), too. It only takes a little phonetic distortion, Kaf is the
> > name of a mythical mountain in Turkish fairy tales, has is "genuine",
> > et voilà.
>
>
> the qa:f mountain appears in early Islamic literature
> the Qur'an (?) and is a garbled account of the Caucasus.
Possibly Caucasus, OK, or other mountains in the general area. My beef
was with the Kaf + Has (re) construction. Folk etymologies are more
fun to collect than stamps.
Yusuf B Gursey
> yaro...@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote in message news:<870e846a.04092...@posting.google.com>...
> > Would you believe it, "Siberia" has a Hunnic root. The country got its
> > name from the Sabirs (=Suvars? Chuvash?), a Hunnic tribe mentioned by
> > Procopius and Menandros.
> >
> > Hopefully Yusuf will comment on this point.
> >
> > regards
>
> As Yusuf is nowhere around, I will comment myself :-)
thanks.
>
> I made some inquiries, and it appears that the ethnonym "Sabir" is
> connected with the Mongolian word for 'damp terrain, thicket' /s'iwr?/
>
> The city of Seber, or Seberqala ('the fortress of the Sabirs') was
qala is a l.w. from arabic (qal3a(t) )
> first mentioned by the 13th-century Persian historian Rashid ad-Din.
> It became the capital of the Tatar khanate of Sibir, hence the name
> for the country.
but the Sabirs were around before. IIRC they are mentioned among
people related to the Khazars by King Joseph in his letter.
>
> regards