What Could they have been Like?
Automort
wonder what characteristics they may have had that might have worked agains
them. If the peoples were conquered and killed or enslaved, that would account
for their disappearance since they'd adopt the language of the dominant
societies. But some scenarios have Indo-european farmers simply settling more
or less peacefully and their neighbors learing agriculture from them.
Could lost languages have perhaps had some intrinsic properties that worked
against them?
Peter T. Daniels
No.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Automort
So it had to be just the military, technical, and population superiority of the
others --- which gave them higher status.
I'd still like to know something about those languages.
Peter T. Daniels
So would we all.
Let us know when your time machine (with sound) is available.
Automort
>> I'd still like to know something about those languages.
>
>So would we all.
>
>Let us know when your time machine (with sound) is available.
>--
Some years ago I read about experiments with recovering sound and voices from
clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned phonographs
did. I haven't heard anything more about this.
but that might be one way some scraps of languages could be recovered.
Fabian
"Automort" <auto...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Some years ago I read about experiments with recovering sound and
voices from
> clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned
phonographs
> did. I haven't heard anything more about this.
> but that might be one way some scraps of languages could be recovered.
If you sincerely believe that would work, I have some lovely beachfront
property in Arizona you might be interested in.
--
--
Fabian
Once you get over the initial panic stage, oxygen starvation is actually
a rather pleasant sensation, almost like falling asleep.
Paul L. Madarasz
wrote, perhaps among other things:
>
>"Automort" <auto...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
>> Some years ago I read about experiments with recovering sound and
>voices from
>> clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned
>phonographs
>> did. I haven't heard anything more about this.
>> but that might be one way some scraps of languages could be recovered.
>
>If you sincerely believe that would work, I have some lovely beachfront
>property in Arizona you might be interested in.
Hey! We here in Arizona have tons of beachfront property (it takes 4
hours to get to the ocean by car, but hell -- you want sand, we got
sand!).
Damn that Gadsen, anyway! He *could* have negociated a port for Our
Fair State, but didn't think it was that important. Oh, well...
--
Paul L. Madarasz
Tucson, Baja Arizona
"How 'bout cuttin' that rebop?"
-- S. Kowalski
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Automort
>If you sincerely believe that would work, I have some lovely beachfront
>property in Arizona you might be interested in.
>
In the late 1940s I had toys that could speak without electronics. Strips of
plastic pulled through cardboard imitated human voices and spoke
understandably.
If you believe that there are some valuable antiques for sale.
Automort
>e here in Arizona have tons of beachfront property
I live about 10 mi from the Gulf of Mexico. the road there is a couple of 100
yerds from where I'm sitting.
Unfortunately today it's 40 degrees & drizzling so I'm sitting here with you
geeks.
PJKriha
> >From: "Peter T. Daniels" gram...@worldnet.att.net
>
> >> I'd still like to know something about those languages.
> >
> >So would we all.
> >
> >Let us know when your time machine (with sound) is available.
> >--
>
> Some years ago I read about experiments with recovering sound and voices from
> clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned phonographs
> did.
Some thirty years ago I read a science-fiction novel based on this.
I don't recall the name of the author or the book.
But for goodness sake, it was a science-fiction!
> I haven't heard anything more about this.
I'm not surprised.
> but that might be one way some scraps of languages could be recovered.
Paul JK
Fabian
Chalk and cheese. these were designed to generate friction in a certain
pattern which will generate recognisable sound waves. The clay and paint
you want to make sounds are simply ancient raw or processed materials
designed with visual aesthetics or structural integrity in mind, not
acoustics. You can't make a table play music, even if it is made of teh
same wood as a piano.
Automort
> The clay and paint
>you want to make sounds are simply ancient raw or processed materials
>designed with visual aesthetics or structural integrity in mind, not
>acoustics.
Of course they weren't designed to record acuostics. Nevertheless, both are
used wet and dried. the idea is that sound might cause patterns in the material
as it hardens.
Automort
>thirty years ago I read a science-fiction novel based on this.
>I don't recall the name of the author or the book.
>But for goodness sake, it was a science-fiction!
>
I never read it, but I did read stories written 150 years ago about going to
the Moon.
Paul L. Madarasz
perhaps among other things:
(but first, someone else wrote...)
>> Some years ago I read about experiments with recovering sound and voices from
>> clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned phonographs
>> did.
>
>Some thirty years ago I read a science-fiction novel based on this.
>I don't recall the name of the author or the book.
>But for goodness sake, it was a science-fiction!
>
>> I haven't heard anything more about this.
>
>I'm not surprised.
>
>> but that might be one way some scraps of languages could be recovered.
>
>Paul JK
I think it was L. Sprague DeCamp, in a short story included in _A Gun
For Dinosaur_. But I could be wrong, as it was the same 30 years
since I read it. I'd put a buck or two on it, though.
Peter Gardner
> >> from
> >> clay and paint, which can record vibrations much as old-fashioned
> >> phonographs
> >> did.
Arthur C. Clarke mentioned it in his book _The View from Serindip_
(which is nonfiction, by the way.) Apparently, someone ran a phonograph
needle around an old painting and heard the word "blue" at one point.
Naturally, that book isn't one of the ones I brought with me this
semester, so I can't look it up for a while.
Peter
Automort
>Arthur C. Clarke mentioned it in his book _The View from Serindip_
>(which is nonfiction, by the way.) Apparently, someone ran a phonograph
>needle around an old painting and heard the word "blue" at one point.
I recall that, but I didn't know the source. Now we could use lasers.
Harlan Messinger
Phonograph records are (or were) not made by putting the blank on the
table and talking at it, and hoping the sounds would register
themselves in a spiral pattern starting at the outside and working
inward.
Why would one expect that method to be sufficient for any other
material?
--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Automort
>
>Why would one expect that method to be sufficient for any other
>material?
If I find the original article I'll refer you to the author.
Dkcsac
>phonographs
>> did.
>
>Some thirty years ago I read a science-fiction novel based on this.
>I don't recall the name of the author or the book.
I too read such a sci-fi story around that time, about a centuries-old pot made
on a potter's wheel; while it was spinning, its maker used a small tool to make
a spiral groove design on it. Someone in modern times rigged up a phonograph
needle to the groove, and managed to play back some words spoken while the
groove was being made centuries before. He had the ancient words translated and
they were something about future generations being able to hear his words,
since the speaker had a premonition that his words would be heard in the
distant future.
Automort
>He had the ancient words translated and
>they were something about future generations being able to hear his words,
>since the speaker had a premonition that his words would be heard in the
>distant future.
That has to be fiction.
Somebody with money just needs to look into this on their own.
Bobby D. Bryant
Without evidence we have nothing but speculation to go on.
One thing you could do is look at languages that are dying *today* and
construct a typology of causes. I suspect that you will find the causes
to be social (axe-wielding barbarians being a special case of "social"),
and never "linguistic" in the narrow sense.
As for what they were like... My best speculation is that most of them
were sister and cousin languages/families to the languages/families that
crowded them out, or to nearby surviving languages/families.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
Automort
> I suspect that you will find the causes
>to be social (axe-wielding barbarians being a special case of "social"),
>and never "linguistic" in the narrow sense.
I suspect you're right.
>As for what they were like... My best speculation is that most of them
>were sister and cousin languages/families to the languages/families that
>crowded them out, or to nearby surviving languages/families.
Yes, but not knowing the actual details is agonizing.
Bobby D. Bryant
I wonder whether some of the poorly attested languages from along the
northern shore of the Mediterranean might be direct evidence?
Peter T. Daniels
Which languages would those be?
Automort
>Which languages would those be?
Etruscan is the only one that comes to mind.
Peter T. Daniels
Doesn't fit.
Don't snip so much.
Automort
>> Etruscan is the only one that comes to mind.
>
>Doesn't fit.
Since we know so little of those languages, how do you know?
Peter T. Daniels
We have well over 10,000 Etruscan inscriptions, and they don't come from
the place mentioned in the posting to which you inappropriately
responded with the above suggestion of Etruscan.
Automort
>We have well over 10,000 Etruscan inscriptions, and they don't come from
>the place mentioned in the posting
Italy isn't on the northern side of the Mediterranean?
Peter T. Daniels
That's not what the posting said.
Bobby D. Bryant
Wasn't some shyster claiming to have a recording of Jesus' voice by this
method, a couple of years back?
Bobby D. Bryant
> auto...@aol.com (Automort) wrote in message
> news:<20030125193552...@mb-cp.aol.com>...
>> I haven't heard anything more about this.
>
> I'm not surprised.
Maybe if he squeezed the table a little harder?