Illyrian = Albanian
Trond Engen
> [...] in "An Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Indo-European
> Language", a revised version of "Indogermanisches Etymolgisches
> Wörterbuch" by Pokorny [...], most of my etymologies and my view
> about laryngeal hardening in Albanian were accepted as true
> arguments. Especially is to be noticed the sign of equation between
> Illyrian and Albanian.
I've been bursting with curiosity for days. Would you mind expanding on
this?
--
Trond Engen
Sløv men interessert
Trond Engen
I'm sorry that I posted this request to the wrong newsgroup. I
immediately deleted my message and reposted it to sci.lang. That worked
on my news server, but apparently Google Groups takes no notice of such
efforts.
> The relation of Illyrian with Albanian was denyed by many linguists on
> the wrong basis that Illyrian is centum and Albanian is satem
> language. Based on Waclaw Cimochowski's research, especially on his
> well-known study "The Linguistic position of Balkan Illyrian on the
> circle of IE languages", I came to same conclusion that as Illyrian,
> as PAlbanian were satem languages with centum characteristics. For
> further information see Cybalist's messages on this topic. I think
> that about Os-inium, Argyruntum and other place names in -untum; about
> place names Aul-ona, Vlab-ona, Gir-ona, Aen-ona, Grab-ona/Grab-ana,
> Scamp-ini-, D-ril-on, D-rin-on, D-riv-astum, K-riv-aça, K-ril-eva,
> Llap, Gallap; Dardanian FN Gall-abroi (see FN Abroi), Illyrian royal
> name Genti-us, Teuta/Tri-teuta/Teut-ana/Teut-aples and many other
> place, river, personal names, my contribution can't be denyed. For
> further information see some entry in my "Albanian Inherited Lexicon"
> and "Liburnian place names" on sci.lang.
Yes, I will, and I have. You may have noticed that I've read your
messages with great pleasure and interest. It all amounts to an
overwhelming list of examples, and I was hoping that you had your
conclusions compiled into a neat description of the systematic
relationship, or a sketch of such, for a simple mind to grasp.
I'm quoting in full, crossposting and setting the follow-up to the right
group.
--
Trond Engen
- waiting for the book
Dušan Vukotić
Serbian liti (pour), uliti (pour in), English lake; Serbian politi
(pour); Greek πολυχοος/ πολυχυτος widely diffused; all these words
were derived from Latin libamentum, libatio (a drinkoffering, pour
out); Serbian livanje (pouring); cf. Greek λίμνη (lake, loch); also
Latin lĭtus (from lino - besmearing, anointing): Serbian linuti
(pour), uliti (pour in), ulje (oil), uljiti, na-uljiti (smear)...
Let us now see what we can find in Albanian; pour (derdh), lake
(liqen; from Latin lacus; Italian lago, Romanian lac); oil is in
Albanian vaj (looks as if Albanian borrowed this word from Hungarian
vaj /butter, butterfat/; interesting, unlike Albanian, even Hungarian
have word olaj for oil - a Slavic borrowing; Estonian oli, Finish
öljy; ; acording to the outspread of the word OIL among all European
people we could say that Albanian is less Indo-European than
Hungarian, Finish and Estonian!). One more thing, Albanian has the
word ulli (olive; from Italian oliva)...
ap- (water, river) *Hap- 'water', 'river' - this word or prefix comes
from the reduplicated ancient basis BEL: Latin bibo, bibere/poto,
potare (drink), Serbian popiti, piti (drink); Albanian pi, pije
(drink; loan word from Serbian - imp. pi! drink!); Romanian bea,
băutură (drink); Latin flumen (river), Romanian fluviu (river),
Albanian lumë (river); Srbian plaviti (flow), Albanian rrjedhë
(flow; from Latin rheuma /flow/, redundo /overflow/; Greek ρευμα flow,
stream; Serbian reka /river/, roniti /dive, running of tears)
barba- (a swamp) (in Metubarbis - a toponym) , Sanskrit barburam
(water), Greek borboros (slime), Serbian bara (bog, pond; also Serbian
lokva pond); I have taken this list of so-called Illirian words from
the internet page http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/illy.html;
Nerozniak and company compared alleged Albanian berrak (swampy soil),
obviously not knowing that this word comes to Balkan from Arabic bahr
(see) and Semitic BRH (pool, pond; cf. Hebrew brekha /pool/), via
Turkish (cf. Turkish batir swamp)...
I will continue to analyze all of about 20 so-called Illyrian words to
show everyone here that Albanian is maybe less connected to that small
vocabulary than Estonian, Finish or Hungarian...
DV
Abdullah Konushevci
> Besiani <akonushe...@gmail.com> skreiv:> >>AbdullahKonushevciskreiv i en annen tråd:
Dear Trond,
As you may have noticed, I was very tired from some other non-pleasant
posts.
I will try to make some further explanation about some place, folks,
river and personal names and from time to time to enlarge as much as
possible the list.
Lets start from first entry: abhro- 'strong, mighty': 1a. Alb afër
'close, near', cf O.C.S. blizь (r/l shift); b. afronj 'bring close,
squeeze', cf. Ltv. blaîzît ‘squeeze, clash, hit'. I will add here
freely Dardanian folk name (FN) Gal-abroi (Strabo, Geographica, VII,
3,18) as well as Illyrian FN Abroi and Thrac PN Abro-.
*ab-/*ap- 'water, river'. 1. Alb amë 'river, source', pl. emna, from
*ab-no through -bn-/-mn- mutation; amull 'backwater' derived from
*akWa:-/*agWa;- through the shift -gW- > -b-, -kW- > -p-, attested in
Greek, Illyrian and Celtic languages, as well as in some Albanian
derivatives, cf. Lat amnis 'river', Ir ab 'river' and Illyrian place
name Am-antia/Ab-antia, RN Am-ar, Am-ana (Krahe, Beekes). It is to be
notices m/b alternation like in other words.
Root *ades-/*ados- 'sort of cereal' evolved from an older root *heg'h-
'a kind of grain' through phonetic mutation -g'h- > -d- found only in
Alb-Illyrian and Baltic languages, cf. Alb dardhë ‘pear, pear tree’
from *Heg’hord- with regular change -g’h- > -d- from full-grade
*g’hord- and Greek akhrados ‘wild pear’ Huld, BAE, page 48).
Botanically is proved that Dard-ania was the most suitable region of
growing of wild pear. There are many place names with appellative
dardhë ‘pear’ in Albania and Dardania (now Kosova).
So, till now, we have these material: ABROI, GAL-ABROI, probably ABRO,
AM-ANTIA/AB-ANTIA, AM-AR, AM-ANA, DARD-ANIA that could be explained
with Albanian appellatives afr-onj, amë, dardhë. We have as well –g’h-
> -d- and –gW- > -b- and -kW- > -p- mutation and m/b alternation.
Konushevci
Dušan Vukotić
Again, Slavic blizu and Albanian afroj have nothing in common.
I wonder what "similar" Abdullah could have found between this two
words. Albanian afroj may be compared with the Serbian words prići
(from prigoniti; come closer) and prionuti (prijanja stick together,
cleave; cf. German Freund, English friend, Serbian prijatelj, prijan,
prika /friend/): once again Serbian prijanja (stick together, cleave)
<=> Albanian afroj/afronj (near, bring close, squeeze)... Of course
there are other cognates like Serbian prezanje/na-prezanje/pregnuće
(pressing), English press (from Latin presso, pressare); Greek
βαρησις
(pressure, oppression); Serbian prignati/prigoniti (drive closer) and
the great number of words in other IE languages, which are expressing
the status of reciprocal action with the opposite directions.
> *ab-/*ap- 'water, river'. 1. Alb amë 'river, source', pl. emna, from
> *ab-no through -bn-/-mn- mutation; amull 'backwater' derived from
> *akWa:-/*agWa;- through the shift -gW- > -b-, -kW- > -p-, attested in
> Greek, Illyrian and Celtic languages, as well as in some Albanian
> derivatives, cf. Lat amnis 'river', Ir ab 'river' and Illyrian place
> name Am-antia/Ab-antia, RN Am-ar, Am-ana (Krahe, Beekes). It is to be
> notices m/b alternation like in other words.
No, it is not truth! Compare Latin flumen, fluminis, and amnis and you
will understand whence comes the Albanian river (emna); Latin fluminis
- amnis; Albanian lumë pl. lumenj => ame, emna. This words, both
Latin and Albanian have nothing in commen with aqua or root *akWa,
because they were derived from the same source as English lake,
Serbian plima (tide) or Greek λίμνη (lake); compare Greek ληνός
(trough) and Serbian oluk (trough) just for a little brain gymnastics;
Serbian plinuti (pour down), plimni (tidal).
> Root *ades-/*ados- 'sort of cereal' evolved from an older root *heg'h-
> 'a kind of grain' through phonetic mutation -g'h- > -d- found only in
> Alb-Illyrian and Baltic languages, cf. Alb dardhë ‘pear, pear tree’
> from *Heg’hord- with regular change -g’h- > -d- from full-grade
> *g’hord- and Greek akhrados ‘wild pear’ Huld, BAE, page 48).
> Botanically is proved that Dard-ania was the most suitable region of
> growing of wild pear. There are many place names with appellative
> dardhë ‘pear’ in Albania and Dardania (now Kosova).
> So, till now, we have these material: ABROI, GAL-ABROI, probably ABRO,
> AM-ANTIA/AB-ANTIA, AM-AR, AM-ANA, DARD-ANIA that could be explained
> with Albanian appellatives afr-onj, amë, dardhë. We have as well –g’h-
Albanian dardhë is the borrowing from Greek άχερδος and you explained
well the phonetic changes g/h => d. Do you not see that Greek
akherdos, Serbian kruška and Albanian were derived from the same Hor-
Gon basis or, to be more understandable, from the word which denotes
CIRCLE (Greek κρίκος, Serbian krug, Albanian rreth). And you are
saying: "Botanically is proved that Dardania was the most suitable
region of growing of wild pear." Using such childish logic I would
also say that Dardani were Darodani (Slavic name Darodan) and in
Sebian 'darodan' or 'nadaren' means 'gifted' ; in Bulgaria Darodan is
"the one who was given as a gift" (Дародан - който е даден в дар).
Which one of these two crazy stories (your "pear-Dardanians" and my
"gifted-Dardanians") is more plausible?
Do you not see a difference between folk-etymology and real science? I
am surprised that people (some of them are serious scientists or
should be serious) on Sci.lang seem to believe in your Cinderella's
midnight runaway chariot and lost shoo. Ridiculous!
DV
Trond Engen
> On Jul 2, 7:18 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>
>> It all amounts to an overwhelming list of examples, and I was hoping
>> that you had your conclusions compiled into a neat description of
>> the systematic relationship, or a sketch of such, for a simple mind
>> to grasp.
>
> As you may have noticed, I was very tired from some other non-pleasant
> posts.
Yes I understand, and that was part of my reason to ask only for the
underlying laws, not the examples that our HORBEL SUR-bian is trying to
drown in noise.
> I will try to make some further explanation about some place, folks,
> river and personal names and from time to time to enlarge as much as
> possible the list.
>
> Lets start from first entry: abhro- 'strong, mighty': 1a. Alb afër
> 'close, near', cf O.C.S. blizь (r/l shift); b. afronj 'bring close,
> squeeze', cf. Ltv. blaîzît ‘squeeze, clash, hit'. I will add here
> freely Dardanian folk name (FN) Gal-abroi (Strabo, Geographica, VII,
> 3,18) as well as Illyrian FN Abroi and Thrac PN Abro-.
"The Celtic branch of Abroi"?
> [...]
>
> So, till now, we have these material: ABROI, GAL-ABROI, probably ABRO,
> AM-ANTIA/AB-ANTIA, AM-AR, AM-ANA, DARD-ANIA that could be explained
> with Albanian appellatives afr-onj, amë, dardhë. We have as well –g’h-
> > -d- and –gW- > -b- and -kW- > -p- mutation and m/b alternation.
Thank you. That's the kind of simple information that even I might have
a chance to remember.
Is it possible to read the scarse Illyrian texts -- inscriptions, I mean
-- in light of reconstructed stages of Albanian?
--
Trond Engen
- hoping you will stick to your work. The hostility you have met is
hardly worth answering in a serious manner.
Abdullah Konushevci
> Abdullah Konushevci skreiv:
>
> > On Jul 2, 7:18 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>
> >> It all amounts to an overwhelming list of examples, and I was hoping
> >> that you had your conclusions compiled into a neat description of
> >> the systematic relationship, or a sketch of such, for a simple mind
> >> to grasp.
>
> > As you may have noticed, I was very tired from some other non-pleasant
> > posts.
>
> Yes I understand, and that was part of my reason to ask only for the
> underlying laws, not the examples that our HORBEL SUR-bian is trying to
> drown in noise.
>
> > I will try to make some further explanation about some place, folks,
> > river and personal names and from time to time to enlarge as much as
> > possible the list.
>
> > Lets start from first entry: abhro- 'strong, mighty': 1a. Alb afër
> > 'close, near', cf O.C.S. blizь (r/l shift); b. afronj 'bring close,
> > squeeze', cf. Ltv. blaîzît ‘squeeze, clash, hit'. I will add here
> > freely Dardanian folk name (FN) Gal-abroi (Strabo, Geographica, VII,
> > 3,18) as well as Illyrian FN Abroi and Thrac PN Abro-.
>
> "The Celtic branch of Abroi"?
Probably. Taking into consideration Cletic tribe Skordiskoi, so much
present in Dardania from the second century BC and its ending -oi,
common on both tribe names, we may guess that we have to deal, like on
the case of Japodes, a mixing Celto-Illyrian tribe, with Dardanian-
Celtic symbiosis of two tribes.
>
> > [...]
>
> > So, till now, we have these material: ABROI, GAL-ABROI, probably ABRO,
> > AM-ANTIA/AB-ANTIA, AM-AR, AM-ANA, DARD-ANIA that could be explained
> > with Albanian appellatives afr-onj, amë, dardhë. We have as well –g’h-
> > > -d- and –gW- > -b- and -kW- > -p- mutation and m/b alternation.
>
> Thank you. That's the kind of simple information that even I might have
> a chance to remember.
>
> Is it possible to read the scarse Illyrian texts -- inscriptions, I mean
> -- in light of reconstructed stages of Albanian?
I ma not ready to say anything for sure about it.
Yusuf B Gursey
> Nerozniak and company compared alleged Albanian berrak (swampy soil),
> obviously not knowing that this word comes to Balkan fromArabicbahr
> (see) and Semitic BRH (pool, pond; cf. Hebrew brekha /pool/), viaTurkish(cf.Turkish batir swamp)...
>
swamp is bataklIk in turkish and has nothing to do with semitic. it
comes from bat= "to sink"
Dušan Vukotić
> swamp is bataklIk in turkish and has nothing to do with semitic. it
> comes from bat= "to sink"
Thanks Yusuf, you are right. Probably I mixed it with batirmak
(submerge); it seems that batirmak and batak were connected somehow.
Turkish bat/batak seems to be related to the Serbian potok (brook,
stream), Serbian v'oda je potekla' (water has run); cf. Serbian
'potonuti' sink.
DV
phog...@abo.fi
Dušan Vukotić
All this might be a good indicator that main Euro-Asian branches of
languages came from the same source. What to say about Serbian bara
(marsh, bog, pool, pond) and Semitic baḥrā (sea); Greek παραγχῠσία
stagnant pool; παράγω produce, generate, turn out? In Serbian,
etymology of the word bara (pool, pond, marsh) is well known - it
comes from Serbian 'oborina' (any downfall or precipitation), i.e.
from obaranje (overthrow, turning down), obrnuti (reverse, turn over)
- from secondary ancient IE basis Br-Gon (opposite driving).
DV
Franz Gnaedinger
> *ab-/*ap- 'water, river'. 1. Alb amë 'river, source', pl. emna, from
> *ab-no through -bn-/-mn- mutation; amull 'backwater' derived from
> *akWa:-/*agWa;- through the shift -gW- > -b-, -kW- > -p-, attested in
> Greek, Illyrian and Celtic languages, as well as in some Albanian
> derivatives, cf. Lat amnis 'river', Ir ab 'river' and Illyrian place
> name Am-antia/Ab-antia, RN Am-ar, Am-ana (Krahe, Beekes). It is to be
> notices m/b alternation like in other words.
A minor question of mine (the main one follows later):
could *ab-/*ap- for water, river, also come from ad?
da was another word for water, present in Poteidas,
Doric form of Poseidon, meaning lord of water
(a petrified vocative plus the genitive of da) and
in Demeter, mother of the fertile water da (Michael
Janda). You may have seen my Magdalenian experiment.
I reconstructed three figurative compounds for water,
AC CA and AD DA and AS SA. Ab would come from
AC, but is a derivation from AD also possible in your
opinion? the inverse DA would then have been da for
water, originally meaning from, coming from a source,
that is.
Now for my main question concenring Tirana: how old
is the capital of Albania? do you know the ancient names
of this city? I wasn't able to find them, but I wonder
whether (and assume that) it may go back to a form of
TYR meaning he who overcomes, also she who overcomes,
in Armenia the sun archer, a woman with the head of
a lioness (on battle belts of the Late Bronze Age, see
Gregory E. Areshian), in Latium SA TYR NOS --- mind
(nos) of the one who overcomes in the double sense of
rule and give (tyr) from above (sa), which became Saturnus
or Saturn, the supreme Roman god who founded a golden
age, before Jupiter took over (Jupiter, I learned, is Mushtari
or so in Arabic, and in this word I recognize MAS TYR
meaning the master who overcomes). TYRSANOS is
written on a sherd found on the acropolis of Athens,
a dedication by an Etruscan - also they, I believe,
worshipped a god by the name of Tyr. Moreover,
when I studied the ancient maps of Illyria, it seemed
to me that I can see a couple of regions where some
of the proto-Etruscans may have settled (by this term
I mean a relatively small group of people who came
from the highland of Armenia). Very speculative, of
course, and I can't go on with my work until my main
question is answered: does the name of Tirana go
back to a similar form in an ancient language, Illyrian
for one? can we assume that the founders of ancient
Tirana worshipped one TYR or Tyr or Tir ?
Regards Franz Gnaedinger
Abdullah Konushevci
Dear Franz,
Regarding your main question about the etymology of Tirana/Tirona,
capital of Albania, I am inclined to see it motivated by river name,
like Illyrian Duria, Ger. Tyra, Thur, probably from suffixed and
lengthened zero-grade form *dhu:-ro with regular change of long *u: >
i in PAlab, cf. mu:s > Alb mi 'mouse', *su:s > Alb thi 'pig' (cf also
Tyra, mod. Dniestr, Zosimi "Historia Nova', 38,17-41,19), suffixed in -
ana, like Ulpi-ana/Ulki-ana, Grab-ana, Barb-ana etc. The today river
name is Lana < Tyr-ana, probably truncated, modified and Albanicized
form. There are also folk etymologies that links it to Teheran or to
place of Tyrant, especially during th E. Hoxha's dictatorship etc.
According to "An Etymologica Dictionary of the Proto-Indo-European
Language" (page 12), root *ad(u)-/*ad-ro- are of IE origin, both
evolved from older form *Heg'hero, due to -g'h- > -d- mutation.
Konushevci
Dušan Vukotić
>
> > *ab-/*ap- 'water, river'. 1. Alb amë 'river, source', pl. emna, from
> > *ab-no through -bn-/-mn- mutation; amull 'backwater' derived from
> > *akWa:-/*agWa;- through the shift -gW- > -b-, -kW- > -p-, attested in
> > Greek, Illyrian and Celtic languages, as well as in some Albanian
> > derivatives, cf. Lat amnis 'river', Ir ab 'river' and Illyrian place
> > name Am-antia/Ab-antia, RN Am-ar, Am-ana (Krahe, Beekes). It is to be
> > notices m/b alternation like in other words.
>
> A minor question of mine (the main one follows later):
> could *ab-/*ap- for water, river, also come from ad?
> da was another word for water, present in Poteidas,
> Doric form of Poseidon, meaning lord of water
> (a petrified vocative plus the genitive of da) and
> in Demeter, mother of the fertile water da (Michael
> Janda). You may have seen my Magdalenian experiment.
> I reconstructed three figurative compounds for water,
> AC CA and AD DA and AS SA. Ab would come from
> AC, but is a derivation from AD also possible in your
> opinion? the inverse DA would then have been da for
> water, originally meaning from, coming from a source,
> that is.
Your AC CA and AD DA and AS SA. is close to *ab-/*ap- as invented
Illyrian is to Alabanian.
Reduplicated BEL basis (Latin bibo; Serbian piti/ popiti (drink);
Albanian pi; cf. Latin libation; Serbian livati (pour) from oblivati
(Bel-Bel, affuse); Serb. bljunuti (gush, vomit); pljunuti (spit);
Greek ἁλίπλοος (covered with water), ἐπιπο-τίζω (water), λιβάζω
(trickle), ἀπόπλῠμα (dilution); Sanskrit plavita (submerged,
inundated), plavate (float, svim)..
> Now for my main question concenring Tirana: how old
> is the capital of Albania? do you know the ancient names
> of this city? I wasn't able to find them, but I wonder
> whether (and assume that) it may go back to a form of
> TYR meaning he who overcomes, also she who overcomes,
> in Armenia the sun archer, a woman with the head of
> a lioness (on battle belts of the Late Bronze Age, see
> Gregory E. Areshian), in Latium SA TYR NOS ---
What about Serbian saterati (pound), satiranje (extermination), terati
(drive), teranje (driving); Greek τύραννος (an absolute sovereign);
Latin terreo, territo (to frighten); now compare Serbian teranje
(drive), satiranje (destruction, extermination) and strah (terror,
fear)... We can see that all above words (Greek, Latin and Serbian)
are logically connected.
Let us now see what we have in Albanian
tmerr - horror, fright; tmerrshëm dreadfull (from Latin timor /fear/;
Italian timore)
drejtoj - drive (probably a loan word from Serbian terati /drive/;
Serbian syntagm "teraj to!" /drive it!/). Also Albanian vozis, vozita
(drive) has been borrowed from Serbian voziti (drive).
tiran, tiranizoj - bully (from Latin tyrannia tyranny; via Italian
tiranneggiante /hectoring, bullying/)
frikësoj, tremb - frighten (from Italian tremebondo; and from Latin
periculum; Italian pericolo, periglio, pericolo /perilous/; from Greek
παρακίνδυνος (risk); cf. Serbian oprezan (alert, cautious); OE
fryhto...
As we can see all the Albanian words denoting "fear", "drive" and
"tyranny" are the loan words from Greek, Italian and Serbian.
DV
Franz Gnaedinger
Thanks for the reply. On my maps I find Macedonian
Dyrrhachium which must be the older form of Albanian
Durresi. Is that town on the same river Lana as Tirana?
I would have interpreted Dyrrhachium as TYR AC ---
land (ac, an expanse of land with water) of a ruler (tyr)
- be it a human ruler, a divine ruler, a god in the heavens,
or a river that rules a plain, at least in former times before
rivers were 'corrected' and reduced to mere channels.
I see the same hypothetical TYR AC as origin of Turicum
Zurich, my hometown at the end of lake Zurich, 5,000
years ago a wide river plain with a small hill on whose top
only recently remains of an ancient settlement have been
found. TYR seems to be such a wide-spread word
with so many derivates that I consider it a very ancient
word indeed, and roots such as *dhu:-ro could all have
been derivates of TYR. It is a hypothesis of mine, and my
simple question is: could it have been like this in your opinion?
could TYR in principle have been the origin of *dhu:-ro? is that
possible according to the sound laws? As for *Heg'hero I will
look it up, thanks for the hint.
By the way, there are plenty Albanians living in Zurich,
also Kossovo-Albanians and Serbs, coexisting more
or less peacefully. The magic word is learning. The
young ones learn a lot in our schools, and this keeps
them busy, and raises hope in them for a better life.
Only that the Kossovari, when they return home, find
no job, because nobody invests in the Kossovo as long
as the political situation is that insecure. The best would
be to give the Kossovo autonomy, so the young people
can do something reasonable, otherwise they will be
a constant menace for Serbia - a friend of mine has
just returned from the Kossovo and told me an hour
ago how bad the situation is down there. So I really
hope the Serbs come to reason, and they themselves
got a lot of work in their own area and can hardly
afford another war.
Let's hope
Franz Gnaedinger
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> Reduplicated BEL basis (Latin bibo; Serbian piti/ popiti (drink);
> Albanian pi; cf. Latin libation; Serbian livati (pour) from oblivati
> (Bel-Bel, affuse)
Do you really believe that the formula SUR HOR BEL GON UM
'sun sun sun motion mind' was revealed to the Serbs a long time
ago, and that those five words are the origin of Indo-European?
You can't be serious. It may do for a poem and be considered
a pretty literary aperçu, but it can't do as a linguistic hypothesis.
You are correct in one point: the constructive approach to early
language is promising, and has been widely ignored until now,
although it was proposed by several people, and not just cranks
but professors and linguists, for example Prof. Dr. Richard
Fester (who, by the way, subsumes your GON under his KALL).
No regards for the time being, as you are spouting so many
invectives in your replies to almost everybody. Invectives
can't replace arguments, whether they come from Prof. Dr.
Nathan Sanders, professor Brian M. Scott, Peter T. Daniels
(for example in the thread on Armenian, Sumerian, etc.),
or whether they come from you, Dusan.
Franz Gnaedinger
> As for *Heg'hero I will look it up, thanks for the hint.
I just consulted Pokorny's online Wörterbuch and found
eg'hero 'lake, inner sea'. This can't really be the root
of da 'water' ? as in Doric Poteidas 'lord of water', oldest
form of Poseidon known so far, in Demeter 'mother of the
fertile water' (Michael Janda), and in Vedic danuna 'heavenly
water' ?
Abdullah Konushevci
Why you don't take a look on revised version:
http://dnghu.org/en/Indo-European%20etymological%20dictionary/. I
believe that you are or you could be better informed who are author(s)
of this version. I will be very grateful to you.
Konushevci
Dušan Vukotić
What a childish behavior! An enemy of my friend is my enemy too! As I
see, you put me together with those who criticized you sharply not so
long ago. And you did it despite the fact that I have never referred
to you in a degrading manner.
Do you remember the times when you "defended" Brian M. Scott from my
"insulting" remarks?
I exchanged a lot of heavy words with Brian M. Scott and some with
Peter T. Daniels; but, nevertheless, I respect them for they erudition
and the most profound knowledge they have showed on many occasions,
here on Sci.lang. Put differently, it means that there are no foul
words in the world which could change my opinion about people I found
to be highly educated and above-average intelligent.
Of course, the arsenal of invectives is unfailing and, if they said
"idiot!" I would shoot (shout!) back "imbecile!" And what the
consequences of such a "bloody" barrage would be?
None at all, my friend... none at all if you are not a real idiot or
imbecile!
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> > swamp is bataklIk in turkish and has nothing to do with semitic. it
> > comes from bat= "to sink"
>
> Thanks Yusuf, you are right. Probably I mixed it with batirmak
> (submerge); it seems that batirmak and batak were connected somehow.
batIr= is just the causative of bat=
Dušan Vukotić
> The best would
> be to give the Kossovo autonomy,
Franz, if you have forgotten, this is a linguistic forum, not a
political tribune.
Nevertheless, I would advice you not to say a single word when
politics is concerned. Your Albanian friends will be terrible mad at
you because you have just offered them the same thing the Serbian
Government has been offering for years - the largest possible
autonomy!
A fatal mistake - unless you are the Serbian spy!
DV
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> Why you don't take a look on revised version:http://dnghu.org/en/Indo-European%20etymological%20dictionary/. I
> believe that you are or you could be better informed who are author(s)
> of this version. I will be very grateful to you.
>
> Konushevci
Normally I don't consult online dictionaries, I prefer
going to the university libraries where we have
two editions of Pokorny. His work is great, but not
the gospel - a step on the ladder, not the top of the
building. IE studies came a long way from him. Do
you have access to new publications? for example
the proceedings of the annual UCLA IE conferences?
Martin E. Huld, whom you frequently mention, is
one of the editors of the more recent volumes, and
he contributed a couple of very fine articles. In the
proceedings of the seventeenth IE conference you
can find a brillant paper on the religion of the Indo-
Europeans by Michael Janda at the university of
Regensburg, therein _da_ for water, present in
Doric Poteidas, in Dameter (damater), and in Vedic
danuna 'heavenly water'. Heg'hero can hardly be
the origin of da 'water'. (I rather see the origin of
Heg'hero in Magdalenian LAK which became lake
Loch etc., inverse of KAL for cave, Underworld,
Quelle 'spring', German Kallbach 'spring brook',
also Keltoi Celts, Helvetii, etc, referring to ancient
miners, Helen as symbol of tin in Homer's Odyssey,
Helen a symbol of Dawn according Michael Janda,
ultimately going back to the sun reappearing from
the Underworld. Da 'water' must have been another
word.) Are you near a university? don't you have
recent publications in your library? If so, you may
contact me via e-mail, and I might give you an
advice how you could get the above proceedings
for your university library. I see that you are doing
serious work, and I find it a pity if you can't start from
recent results but must rely on old sources only
(if that's really the case, I don't know but assume so).
Regards Franz Gnaedinger
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> What a childish behavior! An enemy of my friend is my enemy too! As I
> see, you put me together with those who criticized you sharply not so
> long ago. And you did it despite the fact that I have never referred
> to you in a degrading manner.
I told you a long time ago that you should use
arguments instead of invectives. I tell the same
to Prof. Dr. Nathan Sanders, to professor Brian
M. Scott, to Peter T. Daniels who gave invited
lectures in three continents, and to others who
use invectives instead of arguments. Arguments
are all that count in a scientific discussion. I told
you so a long time ago, but you neglected my
advice - you have a right to use invectives, you
told me then. You never used them on me,
you rather hope for my support, but I can't
support anyone who spouts invectives instead
of providing arguments.
Franz Gnaedinger
Franz Gnaedinger
PS. I just looked up the etymological dictionary by
Dr. phil. et iur. et litt. celt. h. c. Julius Pokorny
(who, by the way, was also teaching at the university
of Zurich) from 1959, and he gives da- (long a) 'liquid,
flowing', Danu- 'river'. My Magdalenian reconstructions
for water are the figurative compounds AC CA and
AD DA and AS SA. Da 'water' might then be an
abbreviation of ad-da, and *ab or *ap for water might
also come from ad-da, rather than from ac-ca *akwa.
That was my question: is the shift from ad-da to *ab
and *ap possible according to the sound laws of PIE ?
Dušan Vukotić
A childish answer again... We are not here to support people but
facts!
How could I be expecting your help if I knew that my Xur-Bel-Gon
speech formula is a dead enemy of your Magdalenian hypoteses? How many
times I told that you dared not answer my questions? After you
expressed your ill-considered delight, after my initial appearing on
Sci.lang (even you wanted to learn Serbian), you were "friendly"
advised (or better said - forced) to "calm down".
I never told you that "I have a right to use invectives". It is a
blatant lie and I did not expect you to go so far in your partiality.
I said that I have a right to answer in the same manner and in the
same abusive language that somebody has used against me.
In your case situation is clear, you have never used foul words and
you have never attacked me personally, so I was in no need of the
"employment" of venomous language.
DV
Abdullah Konushevci
Yes, as far as I know, -gW- > -b- and -kW- > -p- is regular phonetic
mutation on Greek, Celtic, Illyrian-Albanian, cf. Rom apa 'water' from
*akWa:- or Dardanian Ulkiana (*wl.kWo-ana), besides Ulpiana or Alb umb
'small polwshare' from * from *unkW-ni, zero-grade of *wekW-ni (gW and
kW - labiovelars).
Regards,
Konushevci
Dušan Vukoti
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Abdullah!
Now I understand that the Serbian word 'luk' (arcus) is derived from
the English loop, or... it was vice versa - loop is some kind of arc?
Thanks for explaining me that Latin volpe (fox) was derived from
Slavic volk (wolf)!
How else could I know that Serbian verb ''ulivati' (to pour in) came
from other Serbian word with the almost same meaning - 'ulokati
se' (booze); of course, we need a famous Abdullah's Shqip-Illyrian law
ulk => ulb; a miracle sound-change we have been waiting for
millenniums!
Why do you not say people that Ulkiana is the name you invented
yourself. Would you be so kind to specify the source where that, so-
called Illyrian place, was mentioned under the name Ulkiana.
Maybe you thought Ullikana, a Hawaiian tale!?
Try to google it:
Ulpiana 30,800 Ulkiana; 58 (mainly Albanian web pages)
Books: Ulpiana 640, Ulkiana none(!)
DV
Franz Gnaedinger
> mutation on Greek, Celtic, Illyrian-Albanian, cf. Rom apa 'water' from
> *akWa:- or Dardanian Ulkiana (*wl.kWo-ana), besides Ulpiana or Alb umb
> 'small polwshare' from * from *unkW-ni, zero-grade of *wekW-ni (gW and
> kW - labiovelars).
Sorry that I didn't make myself clear enough. The shift
from *akwa to ab/ap is accepted, my question is whether
also a shift from ad-da to ab / ap would have been
possible. Here my hypothesis again, more explicitely:
AC CA --- earth (ac) sky (ca); Latin aqua, Indo-European
earth goddess akka (Pokorny)
AD DA --- toward (ad) from (da); English water, the rump
form (ad)da would have become da for water, as in Doric
Poteidas 'lord of water', damater 'mother of the fertile water',
Vedic danuna 'heavenly water'
AS SA --- upward (as) downward (sa); German Wasser
AD DA AC CA would have become Avestan udaka for water
AS SA AD DA would have become Latin sudor for sweat
and any sort of humidity (evaporating, raising into the sky,
falling down as rain ...), ancient Greek hydor (as-sa reduced
to a sigma, then fading to a mere aspiration of the ypsilon)
My question concerns ab or ap for water. It can be
derived from *akwa (although some seem to deny it).
Now I wonder: could ab / ap also be derived from ad
or from my above ad-da ?
Don't feel obliged to answer, if my question is too silly
for you. Or perhaps you answered it already and I don't
understand? did you tell me that gw can become d and
then b ?
Thanks for your patience, and regards
Franz Gnaedinger
PS. The book you showed me in a link is not in my general
university library. If you have the patience I'd be interested
in the *Heg'hero word you mentioned. Could you elaborate
on it a little more? Only if you got the time, of course
Abdullah Konushevci
> On Jul 5, 11:01 am,AbdullahKonushevci<akonushe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 5, 9:20 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 5, 8:48 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> ulk => ulb; a miracle sound-change we have been waiting for
> millenniums!
>
> Why do you not say people that Ulkiana is the name you invented
> yourself. Would you be so kind to specify the source where that, so-
> called Illyrian place, was mentioned under the name Ulkiana.
> Maybe you thought Ullikana, a Hawaiian tale!?
>
> Try to google it:
> Ulpiana 30,800 Ulkiana; 58 (mainly Albanian web pages)
>
> Books: Ulpiana 640, Ulkiana none(!)
>
> DV
Try Ulciana. It was my tipo.
Abdullah Konushevci
No, I say that voiced aspirated stop -g'h- evolved in -d- in Illyrian-
Albanian, so *ad(u)-, *ad-ro- have evolved from oldest form *Heg'hero.
> Thanks for your patience, and regards
>
> Franz Gnaedinger
>
> PS. The book you showed me in a link is not in my general
> university library. If you have the patience I'd be interested
> in the *Heg'hero word you mentioned. Could you elaborate
> on it a little more? Only if you got the time, of course
See above.
Regards,
Konushevci
Dušan Vukoti
Maybe you think Portuguese province Luciana (prefecture Ulciana) ;-)
Again only Albanian web pages...
[...Po ky fenomen, sipas mendimit tim, do t'i ketë përfshirë edhe
emrat Ulcinium - Ulqin; Ulciana - Ulpiana të formuara nga fjala ilire
ulk e ruajtur edhe në shqipen po si ulk, ujk..]
Translated from Albanian: "But this phenomenon (wolf), according to
some opinions, includes also the names Ulcinum - Ulqin; Ulciana -
Ulkiana; from where the Albanian words like ulk and ujk were allegedly
formed.
Abdullah and other Albanian scientist are trying to say that Albanian
word 'ujk' (wolf) is derived from a certain Illyrian word. Of course,
Albanian 'ulk/ujk' is a clear derivative of the Slavic volk (wolf).
Nevertheless, the name of this city (Ulcinj, Ulcinum) probably has not
been connected with the name of volk (wolf). Ulcinj is well-know after
its numerous (coastal) olive trees and it is more plausible that this
city aquired its name in accordance with the Serbian/Slavic word
'ulje' (oil) or Latin oleum, olei; similar to the name Uljanik (island
in Croatia, also known after its Olive production).
Finally, as we can see, it does not matter if Ulcinj (Lat. Ulcinum)
has got the name from 'volk' (wolf) or 'ulje' (oil), because both
words clearly belong to the Slavic vocabulary (or Latin - oleum.
olei).
There is another possibility that Ulcinj was named by the Slavic word
'luka' (port), for instance, Serbian 'ulu iti brod' (bringing a ship
into a port), but I do not know that Ulcinj ever was an important port
town.
DV
Dušan Vukoti
> > Don't feel obliged to answer, if my question is too silly
> > for you. Or perhaps you answered it already and I don't
> > understand? did you tell me that gw can become d and
> > then b ?
>
> No, I say that voiced aspirated stop -g'h- evolved in -d- in Illyrian-
> Albanian, so *ad(u)-, *ad-ro- have evolved from oldest form *Heg'hero.
Abdulah is right here Franz. I cannot believe that you do not
understand such a simple sort of sound changes!
On the other side Abdulah is saying that labio-velar gw could be
changed into labial b, but such change is impossible in case of akW
and ap-. Such changes were noted in Celtic languages (gw to b), but I
do not think it is well substantiated; cf. Old Irish ben (woman),
allegedly from the IE *g en-; but it seems that Gaelic ìnghnean (young
woman) has been forgotten here. Compare woman and human (Gothic guma)
and you will see that initial glottal <h> (human, Latin homo) changed
to approximant <w> via vocal <u> (Italian uomini /men/, human being;
Latin femina, woman; in Italian uomo (man) => femmina (wife). It means
that any kind of a direct velar or labio-velar changes to bilabial or
labio-dental are hardly imaginable without the help of the approximant
(w) and its vocalic cousin (u).
DV
Dušan Vukoti
> On Jul 6, 12:05 am, Abdullah Konushevci <akonushe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Don't feel obliged to answer, if my question is too silly
> > > for you. Or perhaps you answered it already and I don't
> > > understand? did you tell me that gw can become d and
> > > then b ?
>
> > No, I say that voiced aspirated stop -g'h- evolved in -d- in Illyrian-
> > Albanian, so *ad(u)-, *ad-ro- have evolved from oldest form *Heg'hero.
>
> Abdulah is right here Franz. I cannot believe that you do not
> understand such a simple sort of sound changes!
Abdulah is right but he forgot to say that such sound changes are not
limited only to Albanian and his confabulated Shqip-Illyrian.
DV
Dušan Vukotić
Root gWher-
The phonetic shift gWh > zj took place in Alb. alone as a typical Alb.
phonetic mutatIon. Hence Slav languages borrowed Alb. (Illyrian)
cognate in O.C.S. žeravъ “ blazing “, požarъ “blaze”.Maybe other Alb.
cognates: zjej “boil, cook”, zi adj., m.”black, burnt”, (duplicated
zezë adj., f. “black, burnt”.
Also Alb.Tosk zjarr “fire, glow, heat, fervour “ : Rom. jar “fire,
glow, heat, fervour “ which proves the migration from Albania to
Rumania after the Turkish invasIon.
Lat. formus “warm” (Festus), fornus, furnus (*gʷhorno-s), fornāx “oven
(latter in a fem. āstembe ing based on), fornix, -icis “ dome
“ (*fornicos “die Gestalt an Ofens habend”);
_________________________________________________________
What to say about Abdullah's insolence? What to say about G.
Starostin's and A. Lubotsky's (un)wittingly negligence? Please my dear
friends, would you mind to read again this Abdulah's unbelievable
statement. He says: "gWh > zj is typical Alb. phonetic mutation...
HENCE SLAVIC LANGUAGES BORROWED ALBANIAN (ILLYRIAN) COGNATE IN O.C.S.
ŽERAV blazing, POŽAR blaze."
Slavic žerav and žar are clearly and logically connected to the Common-
Slavic root *gērъ or common IE basis Hor-Gon (Serbian goreti burn,
Czech vyhořet burn down, Russian горящий/garyashciy burning, Slovak
horiet). Slavic žar and žerav are the words that were derived from the
lengthened basis Bel-Hor-Gon (Serbian pogoreti /burn down/; same as
the above Czech vyhořet. It means that verb 'pogoreti' (burn down)
gave the noun 'požar' (palatalization) and 'žar' was a product of the
reduction of the noun 'po-žar'.
Once again: POGORETI => POŽAR =>ŽAR and its later derivation ŽERAVICA.
On the other side, we have no word in Albanian with the meaning of
burning, that begins with velar except (as far as I know) hi, hiri
(ashes). Ash is the product of burning and if it is derived from the
IE root gWher- it means that it comes at the end of a logical process;
burning begins with fire and ends with ashes. Only in the heads of
Albanian (Shqip-Illyrian scientists it looks different - it starts in
an inverted manner - first ashes and then fire!
Albanian djeg - burn (a borrowing form Slavic/Serbian žega; this word
is derived from reduplicate Gon basis - Serbian džagnuti, džagati,
prodžagati (poke the fire); cf. Serbian žacnuti (sting /like a bee/;
in sense of burning); there are a great number of similar Gon
derivatives in Serbian like ćušnuti, kucnuti, kučiti, čuknuti, tuknuti/
taknuti/tući (all with the meaning close to English kick); Irish dóigh
burn, Lithuanian dagas fire, heat; Serbian žestok (furious,
scorching); žestoka vatra (wild fire), žestina (ardor, fervor, zeal),
žiža (focus), žižak/žiška (ember) and hundreds of other Serbian words
which are clearly and logically interlaced. Of course this analysis
should also take in consideration words like German Tag, Serbian dan
(day) and many others from different European languages, but I have no
time for this at the moment. Nevertheless, above examples would be
enough to understand that Albanian is the last language in Europe that
would be able to help us to understand the history of any (single)
Indo-European word. Why? Because Albanian is formed of loan words
altogether... Greek, Latin (Italian, Romanian) and Serbian
zjarr - fire (the word is borrowed from Slavic; there is no way that
anyone can explain the history of that word in Albanian; If you do not
believe me - please ask Abdulah - he will confirm my words).
tym - smoke (loan word from Serbian 'dim'; also word derived from
reduplicated Gon basis (see above-mentioned Irish dóigh and Lithuanian
dagas burn, fire); in fact, dim came from the Serbian/Slavic verb
'duhnuti/dunuti/dahnuti' blow, breathe; disati (breathe);
DV
____________________________________
*Abdullah's above note is from the "updated" and "enhanced" Proto-
Indo-
European Etymological Dictionary A Revised Edition of Julius Pokorny’s
Indogermanisches Etymologisches Wörterbuchhttp://dnghu.org/-
"revised" by George Starostin and Alexander Lubotsky.
Abdullah Konushevci
> ________________________________________________________
> Root gWher-
>
> The phonetic shift gWh > zj took place in Alb. alone as a typical Alb.
> phonetic mutatIon. Hence Slav languages borrowed Alb. (Illyrian)
> cognates: zjej "boil, cook", zi adj., m."black, burnt", (duplicated
> zezë adj., f. "black, burnt".
> Also Alb.Tosk zjarr "fire, glow, heat, fervour " : Rom. jar "fire,
> glow, heat, fervour " which proves the migration from Albania to
> Rumania after the Turkish invasIon.
> (latter in a fem. stembe ing based on), fornix, -icis " dome
> " (*fornicos "die Gestalt an Ofens habend");
> _________________________________________________________
>
> What to say about Abdullah's insolence? What to say about G.
> Starostin's and A. Lubotsky's (un)wittingly negligence? Please my dear
> friends, would you mind to read again this Abdulah's unbelievable
> statement. He says: "gWh > zj is typical Alb. phonetic mutation...
> HENCE SLAVIC LANGUAGES BORROWED ALBANIAN (ILLYRIAN) COGNATE IN O.C.S.
> ŽERAV blazing, POŽAR blaze."
>
> Slavic žerav and žar are clearly and logically connected to the Common-
> Czech vyho et burn down, Russian /garyashciy burning, Slovak
> horiet). Slavic žar and žerav are the words that were derived from the
> lengthened basis Bel-Hor-Gon (Serbian pogoreti /burn down/; same as
> gave the noun 'požar' (palatalization) and 'žar' was a product of the
> reduction of the noun 'po-žar'.
>
> Once again: POGORETI => POŽAR =>ŽAR and its later derivation ŽERAVICA.
>
> On the other side, we have no word in Albanian with the meaning of
> burning, that begins with velar except (as far as I know) hi, hiri
> (ashes). Ash is the product of burning and if it is derived from the
> IE root gWher- it means that it comes at the end of a logical process;
> burning begins with fire and ends with ashes. Only in the heads of
> Albanian (Shqip-Illyrian scientists it looks different - it starts in
> an inverted manner - first ashes and then fire!
>
> Albanian djeg - burn (a borrowing form Slavic/Serbian žega; this word
> is derived from reduplicate Gon basis - Serbian džagnuti, džagati,
> prodžagati (poke the fire); cf. Serbian žacnuti (sting /like a bee/;
> in sense of burning); there are a great number of similar Gon
> taknuti/tu i (all with the meaning close to English kick); Irish dóigh
How I can confirm your obvious stupidity? Are you really crazy? Again,
I have nothing to do with this entry and please leave me alone with
your chauvinistic orgies and pseudo-scientific 'theories'. Every
serious linguist knows that labiovelars followed by high vowel /e/
yields in Albanian /z/, probably through /ž/, cf. Alb zall and
Croatian žal. So, I could only back up such explanation.
Konushevci
Dušan Vukotić
> How I can confirm your obvious stupidity? Are you really crazy? Again,
> I have nothing to do with this entry and please leave me alone with
> your chauvinistic orgies and pseudo-scientific 'theories'. Every
> serious linguist knows that labiovelars followed by high vowel /e/
> yields in Albanian /z/, probably through /ž/, cf. Alb zall and
> Croatian žal. So, I could only back up such explanation.
>
> Konushevci
What is going on now? Didn't you tell that you cooperated and finally
contributed by your own addendum to this "revised" version of
Pokorny's E-dictionary?
Is there any scientist in the world, with a sound mind, who would
claim that Slavic ever borrowed a single word from a confabulated and
never-existed Illyrian?
If you did not write above entry, as you say, who did it then?
I could not believe that anyone would be so brainless to write such an
idiocy and destroy his own reputation for ever.
DV
Abdullah Konushevci
> On Jul 7, 2:00 am, Abdullah Konushevci <akonushe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > How I can confirm your obvious stupidity? Are you really crazy? Again,
> > I have nothing to do with this entry and please leave me alone with
> > your chauvinistic orgies and pseudo-scientific 'theories'. Every
> > serious linguist knows that labiovelars followed by high vowel /e/
> > yields in Albanian /z/, probably through /ž/, cf. Alb zall and
> > Croatian žal. So, I could only back up such explanation.
>
> > Konushevci
>
> What is going on now? Didn't you tell that you cooperated and finally
> contributed by your own addendum to this "revised" version of
> Pokorny's E-dictionary?
> Is there any scientist in the world, with a sound mind, who would
> claim that Slavic ever borrowed a single word from a confabulated and
> never-existed Illyrian?
As you see, there are and well-know world's linguists. I think it is
just a drop on the sea of other borrowed words from Illyrian (never
extincted)-Albanian: PAlb *k'wer-na: > Alb sorrë 'crow' > Slav *sórka,
cf. Rom cioara, Alb vatra/votra 'hearth, fire-place' > Srb-Cr vatra
'fire' etc., etc.
>
> If you did not write above entry, as you say, who did it then?
> I could not believe that anyone would be so brainless to write such an
> idiocy and destroy his own reputation for ever.
>
> DV
How can they destroy their reputation? By of genius penetration to the
heart of the problem, without prejudices and not being vulnerable by
positivism, like many other linguists on Cybalist and sci.lang.
If you have ever read any of my posts, you will be able to see that
the hardening of laryngeal was my idea and many etymologies, like, to
mention just few, Alb katund, katua (see: Meanings of the root *ket-
'room, hut, chamber, storage pit' on sci.lang) has exactly my
interpretation, for till know it has completely different
interpretation; that Alb nalt/lart and Alb pak are inherited words,
not a loans from Latin; that in case of Alb kingj/qengj we have the
hardening of laryngeal and many many others, but I numbered just those
that come to me out of my head.
Konushevci
rjur...@gmail.com
> Abdullah Konushevci skreiv i en annen tråd:
>
> > [...] in "An Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Indo-European
> > Language", a revised version of "Indogermanisches Etymolgisches
> > Wörterbuch" by Pokorny [...], most of my etymologies and my view
> > about laryngeal hardening in Albanian were accepted as true
> > arguments. Especially is to be noticed the sign of equation between
> > Illyrian and Albanian.
>
> I've been bursting with curiosity for days. Would you mind expanding on
> this?
>
>
> --
> Trond Engen
> Sløv men interessert
Dushan your ignorance is simply astonishing. You consider words to be loanwords just because they are similar. Do you even have a clue of what Indoeuropean linguistics is about?? Have you even read a single work about the Albanian language to derive its lexicon "90% from Serbian" (something which is quite ridiculous for Albanian is a much older language then Serbian, as every serious scholar admits)?? Sadly enough, your "Caucasian origin" of Albanian and Albanians is a nice product ready for use made by the megalomaniac minds which, unfortunately, have characterized Serbian politics for decades. And you're making use of this product in a quite diligent way!!!
R