Meanings of the root *ket- 'room, hut, chamber, storage pit'
Abdullah Konushevci
–und/-unt, as bound morpheme in compound kat-und ‘village’ from
*ket-/*kot- ‘room’: OE heaðor ‘enclosure, prison’: OCS
koti:ci: ‘chamber’: Av kata –‘chamber’ and active participle
of zero-grade form *us-nt- and, due to *-sn- > -n-, we have final
–unt- with accent in last syllable with compensatory lengthenin of
dropped /s/, so much attested in Illyrian place names: Argyr-untum,
Dall-untum, Mal-untum, Odr-untum, Pit-untium, Sall-untum, Sipar-unt,
Tar-untum etc. Other derivative is katua/katue ‘stable, basement,
cellar’, pl katonj. Primary form was *katón < *kot-e:-no <
*kot-wes-no. It is to be pointed out that with meaning ‘hut’ this
word was borrowed in all Balkan languages.
Taking into consideration that this word was borrowed in Finnish as
kota ‘dwelling, tent, hut’ and that this words appears in other
languages also with meaning ‘hole’: Av ča:iti ‘in a hole’, Skt
ca:tva:la- ‘hole for sacrificial fire’, Toch B kotai- ‘hole’
and, we will add Alb katua ‘cellar, basement’, we should agree with
Mallory-Amdams view that primary meaning of root *ket- was something
like a ‘storage pit’. (Mallory-Adams ket- 222.)
Any help?
Konushevci
Douglas G. Kilday
I don't see why 'covered place, shelter, room, chamber' shouldn't be
considered the primary sense, with 'storage pit' a secondary
specialization from 'underground room'.
Latin <casa> 'hut, cottage, cabin' may belong here. With its
intervocalic -s-, it is probably a late borrowing from Sabine, in which
we know that -di- was assibilated to -s-. If -ti- was also assibilated
in Sabine (as in the Oscan dialect of Bantia), <casa> could represent
an earlier *katia, itself borrowed from a pre-Italic IE language in
which inherited /o/ regularly became /a/, as in Illyrian.
Abdullah Konushevci
Really, very striking idea. I take a look in Çabej’s studies, as
well as in Orel’s dictionary, but I cannot find any etymology of Alb
kasolle ‘shed; shack, hut’ with Gheg variant kësollë, due to
accent in penultima. Nevertheless, speaking about Alb suffix –ola,
Çabej claims that Alb kasollë should be from Latin casa + ola. But,
in this case we would expect Latin /s/ to become Alb /sh/, like, for
example, it become in Alb këmishë ‘linen shirt, night gown’ from
Latin camisia. So, Latin loan, phonetically speaking, is implausible.
Possibility to be also Alb kasollë, where –ollë is diminutive
suffix, from *kόtia with regular assibilation of –ti-/-ty- to /s/ is
much more possible as in Oscan dialect of Bantia.
Trond Engen
> Taking into consideration that this word was borrowed in Finnish as
> kota ‘dwelling, tent, hut’ [...]
A few simple points of which you probably are aware:
The word is present in Samic as 'guotta' "a type of hut". The
Finnish/Samic word looks like a regular loan from Germanic. The word is
alive as Swedish 'kåta', Norwegian 'kota'/'kote'/'kåte' "small simple
hut". Its ON form was <kota> f. I can't see any trace of "cave" in its
current Scandinavian meaning.
It's also known from other Germanic languages, as are some other
derivations from the same root. Thus it's improbable that the word was
borrowed the other way. And that's not your suggestion anyway.
--
Trond Engen
- has been asleep in a few of them
Toni Keskitalo
The Finnish "kota" is considered to be a Finno-Ugric word, a cognate in
Hungarian is "ház":
http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/Hki/f-h-ety.html
Of course, it could be a loan from Indo-European, as the original poster
says, but the Germanic would then be a loan from Baltic-Finnic. The
SAOB says the word is of controversial origin but the article was
written in 1939:
http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/show.phtml?filenr=1/135/34455.html
A word descended from Indo-European to Germanic would begin with h as
the Old English "heaðor" cited.
Toni
Brian M. Scott
<ton...@jippii.invalid> wrote in
<news:m9v634-...@news.inet.fi> in sci.lang:
> Trond Engen <tron...@engen.priv.no> writes:
>> Abdullah Konushevci skreiv:
>>> Taking into consideration that this word was borrowed in
>>> Finnish as kota ‘dwelling, tent, hut’ [...]
>> A few simple points of which you probably are aware:
>> The word is present in Samic as 'guotta' "a type of hut".
>> The Finnish/Samic word looks like a regular loan from
>> Germanic. The word is alive as Swedish 'kåta', Norwegian
>> 'kota'/'kote'/'kåte' "small simple hut". Its ON form was
>> <kota> f. I can't see any trace of "cave" in its current
>> Scandinavian meaning.
I don't know a feminine <kota>, but there's definitely a
neuter <kot> 'a hut, a small farm'; de Vries says that it's
only attested late. Beside this, though, is the roughly
synonymous OE <cot> (neut., pl. <cotu>) in the Lindisfarne
Gospels.
>> It's also known from other Germanic languages, as are
>> some other derivations from the same root. Thus it's
>> improbable that the word was borrowed the other way. And
>> that's not your suggestion anyway.
> The Finnish "kota" is considered to be a Finno-Ugric word,
> a cognate in Hungarian is "ház":
> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/Hki/f-h-ety.html
> Of course, it could be a loan from Indo-European, as the
> original poster says, but the Germanic would then be a
> loan from Baltic-Finnic. The SAOB says the word is of
> controversial origin but the article was written in 1939:
> http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/show.phtml?filenr=1/135/34455.html
> A word descended from Indo-European to Germanic would
> begin with h as the Old English "heaðor" cited.
Not if it came from a root beginning with *g.
Brian
Franz Gnaedinger
Physicists go back in time for 13,7 billion years, so allow
me to go back for 15,000 years. My Magdalenian word
for hut is KOD, comparative form KOS. You may google
for kod kos in the groups, and you'll find my derivations
of KOD KOS and permutations, all in all a dozen words,
in a message in my etymological thread. I am pleased
to find many new versions of that word here in your thread,
so it must have been a very important word, and probably
much older, perhaps from the Aurigniacian? over 40,000
years old? As the art of building evolved, as tents became
huts and houses and castles (note the kos form) with many
different rooms, including storage rooms, the hypothetical
words KOD and KOS split up into a lot of variants.
Regards Franz Gnaedinger www.seshat.ch
Trond Engen
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:05:45 GMT, Toni Keskitalo
> <ton...@jippii.invalid> wrote in
> <news:m9v634-...@news.inet.fi> in sci.lang:
>
>> The Finnish "kota" is considered to be a Finno-Ugric word,
>> a cognate in Hungarian is "ház":
>> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/Hki/f-h-ety.html
I suppose this pair have cognates in other branches of Fenno-Ugric,
ruling out that the Finnish and the Hungarian word are false cognates.
The use of <kota> f. in Scandinavian mainly for small, temporary
mountain or forest shelters definitely makes a finnic origin more
probable. That wouldn't really solve anything in Germanic, though, as it
can hardly explain <kot> n. in all branches of the family. Maybe <kota>
is a case of contamination in either Finnish or Scandinavian, an
inherited word with its meaning altered upon identification with a foreign.
>> A word descended from Indo-European to Germanic would
>> begin with h as the Old English "heaðor" cited.
>
> Not if it came from a root beginning with *g.
Which is possible, although it's not clear to me which root that might be.
This is a long shot, I think, and far beyond the limits of my capacity,
but <kot> n. could be related to the word known as ON <skot> n. "plank
wall; shed, shelter", e.g. loosing its /s-/ through reanalysis of
compound words. This word is usually treated as one of many meanings of
<skot> n. "shot". And that's fine, as it's a perfectly good company to
be in, along with words like Eng. <shut> "close". But I believe it may
also be derived from the root /*(s)kew-/ "cover". That would make <skot>
a <hut> with an /s-/.
This hypothesis has an obvious weakness. <Kot> seems to be far more
common than <skot> "shelter", and it's the only one making compound
words like <kotkarl> "cottager". That could suggest that the
relationship -- assuming there is one -- is the other way around, with
<skot> "shelter" gaining the /s-/ from compounds upon being identified
with <skot> "shot, shut".
--
Trond Engen
- using days to figure out this little
Dusan Vukotic
Why KOD and why not KOG? In this case, it seems that Serb. KUĆA
(house) and hut (Serb. KATUN, koliba) are coming out from the geminated
GON syllable (GOGNA, the same basis as the Latin cogno- / knowledge).
Compare Avestan zanga- 'ankle', German Kni (Kniegelenk, knee), Latin
'genu' (knee), Lith. zengiu 'I stride' with the Serbian
GEGANJE-GAŽENJE (stumping, shambling, walking). I talked about it
recently when I tried to explain the history of the word 'goose', but I
would say, no body understood what I wanted to declare.
Let us go astray from the main subject for a moment: look at the German
'Kniegelenk', a compound word constituted from KNIE (knee) and GELENK
(joint); and if we compare this German word with the Serbian KOLENO
(knee) and KOLENICA (knee of an animal, pork knee), we shall see that
these words have appeared from the same source (GON-LI-GON). There are
other words which look to be totally unrelated to the words as
GAŽENJE, GEGANJE, GEHEN (GEGANGEN), GANG, although in fact there are:
COLUMN; COLONNADE, CALENDAE and even the Greek ΚΟLΟΝ (large
intestine, food, meat; limb!!!) and KOLΟΝΑ (column, pillar).
In Russian 'host' is 'hazyain' (хозяин) and that 'host' is the
Serbian 'GAZDA'; on the other side there is the Russian
'хозяйство' (hazyaystvo), equal to the Serbian 'gazdinstvo'
and to the English 'husbandry / economy'. In addition, Serbian word
KUĆENJE means 'economizing'; compare it with the Serbian HOĐENJE
(walking), HODNIK (corridor, hallway), KUT (angle), KUTIJA (box)…
Now, I hope, everyone is able to see clearly the source whence the
English 'house' and 'husband' sprung.
Regards,
Dušan Vukotić
Dusan Vukotic
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
Additional data for an extraordinary BRAIN gymnastics (-;
κιβώτιο (box), οικία, οίκος, οίκημα (house,
home), οικονομία, (economy); οικοδεσπότης (host);
καλύβα (hut, Serb. koliba); Serb, KONAČIŠTE, KONAK (Gr.
ξενώνας hostel);
the place where I was born is bearing the name GOSTELJA (Serb. Gazda
<=> Gost relation Host <=> Guest);
am I not born in a HOSTEL? He, he, he...
Interesting:
Ital. ospito (from Lat. hospito host) and Serbian 'gospodin' (sir),
GOSPOD (god!!!) are the words from the same origin Hors-Bel-Gon (Skt.
gopas = shepherd; metathesis gopas > gospa); GOPAS-ODIN (Russ. один
ađin ( one) SHEPHERD - THE ONLY ONE (Jesus is the good Shepherd);
Latin 'hospito, hospitare' and Serbian 'gospodariti' (tyrannize,
dominate, reign, prevail, overrule), 'gospodarenje' ruling are
obviously the branches from the same stem.
There are more miracles to come... Stay tuned!
DV
Dusan Vukotic
It would be interesting to see if Abdulah would be able to explain the
origin of the Albanian word 'kolibe' (hut, Serb. koliba; Ukr. kolyba).
In Serbian, this word clearly come from the adverb 'okolo' (round) and
the verb 'biti' (beat, strike). Serbian 'glib' (mud) is the first
material used in the hut construction. Albanian 'baltë' seems to be a
clear-cut borrowing from the Serbian ('blato' mud). 'Koliba' was made
of 'GLIB' as 'palata' (palace, Alb. palatt) was "upraised" from
'BLATA'.
Albanian "rule" is 'ZAKON', the same word which in Serbian means
"rule", "law", "custom". In fact, Serbian ZAKON originated from the
reduplicated GON syllable in the similar way as it happened to other
Serbian words as 'kuća' (home), 'konak' (hostel), ZAGONITI (drive
something behind someone's back), ZAKUĆITI (SKUĆITI, economize,
husband). Of course, there are hundreds of other words with the same
ancestral history, for instance Serb. ISKATI (eng. ask). All what had
been ISKAZANO (told, agreed by talks) became later the part of written
or custom law (ZAKON) and anyone who would dare to break such law
should be subjected to punishment (Serb. KAZNA).
The modern Albanians are trying to prove that Albanian is the
descendant of ancient (extinct) Illyrian language. The fervent
'dëshirë' (desire, Lat. desidere) of the Albanian scientists to prove
impossible is understandable and their young fiery (Alb. 'zjarrtë',
Serbian žariti, žarovit; ra-zjariti to rage; RA-ZJAREN choleric,
angry; Serb. ŽAR > Alb. ZJARR) national zealotry, but it looks
enormously ridiculous when some West-European scientists are trying to
help the Albanian colleagues to build the miraculous linguistic castle
between earth and sky. I think that the Albanian MJEGULL (Serb. MAGLA
fog) should be dispersed (Alb. shpërthej, Ger. sprengen, Serb.
prsnuti. isprskati, brz, prognati, pregnuti, spregnuti) in order to see
the fundament (Alb. themeloj < Serb. temelj) of Albanian languages,
which has been completely made of Greek, Latin and Serbian vocabulary
and a few words Shqiptar have brought from their old Caucasian land.
DV
Dusan Vukotic
I hoped that the descendant of the old Illyrian tribes would have the
theory how it happened that "Illyro-Shqiptar" language borrowed so many
Slavic (Serbian) words. I was wrong, obviously.
He, he... Alb. kastravec (cucmber), metathesis from the Serbian
'krastavac'
Sometimes the Albanian loan-words are so garbled and deformed that it
make almost impossible to see where they really came from. For
instance, who would say that Albanian 'drejtim' is related to the Latin
'directus'?; or the Albanian 'shekull' (century) to the Greek
κύκλος (L.L. 'cyclus');
Albanian 'mbresë' (scar) sprung from the nasalised Serbian 'obrezati'
(cut, circumcize; obrez > oMbrez; similar Alb. ëmbël nicely, from
Italian 'bello'): Albanian adjective 'përzhitur' (scorched) from the
Serbian 'pržiti' (scorch);
Albanian 'këngëtar' (singer) from the Latin ,canto';
in Albanian 'motër' is 'sister'!!! (Serbian 'mater' mother);
Albanian 'shpërlaj' (rinse) from the Serbian ispirati, isprati,
ispralo se, prati, pranje (wash out, rinse);
Albanian 'rrënjë' (root) from the Serbian 'ko-renje' (roots);
Albanian 'djal' (devil) from the Serbian 'đavo-l' (Serb. dialectal
'đavl');
Albanian 'rradhë' (row) from the Serbian 'red' (raw, order);
Albanians are well-known weapon admirers, but they are still using the
Serbian word for the gun (pushkë); from the Serbian verb 'pucati'
(puknuti, puci explode; puška gun);
Albanian 'gardh' (hedge) from the Serbian 'ograda' (fence): 'bregore'
(hillock) from Serbian 'breg' (hill);
For instance, how to understand the Albanian word 'padurim'
(impatience) where the Latin 'duratus' is well visible?
I know that Konjushevic will remain silent again and I wrote this only
to show some Western scientists that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian" story is
the most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the unripe, uneducated and
naive, half idiotic people.
DV
Colin Fine
Ah, here it comes at last, the calling card of the crank: "They don't
answer my ranting, so they can't answer it, and I must be right!"
Colin
Dusan Vukotic
Very clever indeed!
DV
Brian M. Scott
<ne...@kindness.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:el2a2o$n2l$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk> in sci.lang:
> Dusan Vukotic wrote:
>> Dusan Vukotic wrote:
>>> Abdullah Konushevci wrote [nothing that remains]:
[...]
>> I know that Konjushevic
Tsk. Can't get his name right even when it's staring you in
the face.
>> will remain silent again and I wrote this only to show
>> some Western scientists that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian"
>> story is the most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the
>> unripe, uneducated and naive, half idiotic people.
> Ah, here it comes at last, the calling card of the crank:
> "They don't answer my ranting, so they can't answer it,
> and I must be right!"
When in this case the truth is that (1) DV is a boring
crank, and (2) lunacy so patent hardly needs refutation:
anyone whose BS detector isn't triggered is probably a lost
cause anyway. (I don't think that we've had an entertaining
crank since Steve Whittet.)
Brian
Dusan Vukotic
Brian's BS eating Brain in action again!
ps
Ask Abdulah (Konjusevic > Konushevci) what his Serbian surname was
before conversion.
Abdullah Konushevci
Not only Dushan attempts to Slavicize my surname(see also
http://pub37.ezboard.com/fistorijabalkanafrm15.showMessageRange?topicID=125.topic&start=61&stop=75),
believing that it is Slavic, for it resembles with Slavic konj
'horse', doing so as well in Cybalist, where he was banned to be a
regular member and sending me some postings in my e-mail, claiming that
Proto-Albanian even didn't exists. I get used to be attacked by
Slavic chauvinists, like I was attacked as nationalist by TANJUG,
Yugoslav state agency of information, when I have just finished
faculty, later by most authoritative magazine in Serbian "NIN" in
an article "Piši, Abdullah, piši" and so on.
Simply, knowing that they are blinded by chauvinism and that they have
nothing to do with literature and linguistics, I didn't react. I am
sorry that Brian was forced to react in such disgusting posts, for as
he also knows, this is not a first time that I was attacked by Dushan.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
>
> I know that Konjushevic will remain silent again and I wrote this only
> to show some Western scientists that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian" story is
> the most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the unripe, uneducated and
> naive, half idiotic people.
>
> DV
Abdullah Konushevci argues carefully, on the basis of
a linguistic knowledge, while you are throwing words
together without any recognizable method. You arrive
from any word A to any word B, thus you can prove
anything, while actually proving nothing. I recognize
valid intuitions in your word fields, but your attitude of
attacking people instead of providing solid arguments
will not help you survive in sci.lang. The same attitude
brought Serbia down. You Serbs won't keep Albania
much longer.
Franz Gnaedinger
bulkington63
Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>
> Abdullah Konushevci argues carefully, on the basis of
> a linguistic knowledge, while you are throwing words
> together without any recognizable method. You arrive
> from any word A to any word B, thus you can prove
> anything, while actually proving nothing.
>
He's not the only one, eh, Franz?
Dusan Vukotic
I have no intention to mingle in politics here.
BTW, Albania is a sovereign state and I did not understand what you
meant by the following: "Serbs won't keep Albania much longer".
Dušan Vukotic
Dusan Vukotic
I see, you have found your Brainy crying-shoulder!
DV
Peter T. Daniels
He was probably thinking of Kossovo.
Dusan Vukotic
Of course, he thought of Kosovo.
It seems that Franz wrote this message with the mixed emotions of anger
and hate.
I think, it would be more constructive if he tried to show what was
wrong with my "journey" from the word A (not any word but the one of
those I mentioned above) to the word B. We need clear argumentation and
valid examples (evidences) instead of empty words and sterile rhetoric.
Franz continues to "advise" me "to stop attacking" Mr. BRAIN not seeing
at all that the facts speak for themselves: Brian was always the one
who started the foul conversation and it is not difficult to check
that. Naturally, it does not bother me; usually it makes the discussion
livelier, more amusing and interesting.
DV
ps
I have nothing against any person, race, religion or nation, but I must
repeat the undeniable truth that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian" story is the
most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the unripe, uneducated and
naive, half-idiotic people.
Colin Fine
Brian was actually echoing me - I decided that I had had enough of the
poisonous know-nothing and answered back.
But his rudeness to you in respect of your name is despicable (I did not
know he had attacked you before). The contrast between your thoughtful,
carefully researched and illuminating posts and his impressionistic
meanderings could not be more marked.
Falemnderit.
Colin
Dusan Vukotic
I think you should be more descrete in your affectionate behaviour to
Abdulah.
DV
ps
Be carefull Colin, synthetic condoms fail the safe sex test.
Abdullah Konushevci
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
> ps
>
> I have nothing against any person, race, religion or nation, but I must
> repeat the undeniable truth that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian" story is the
> most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the unripe, uneducated and
> naive, half-idiotic people.
Believe me, I didn't except nothing better from you!
Konushevci
Dusan Vukotic
Maybe "expect"?
You are the one who dares not to enter a serious disscusion concerning
Sqiptar-Illyrian fiction.
DV
Dusan Vukotic
I forgot to ask you... Tell me what misdeed Brian did to Abdulah? (-;
DV
Abdullah Konushevci
> Sqiptar-Illyrian fiction.
>
> DV
Yes, it's the first time that you have right, but what is the point to
discuss with someone who have no clue about linguistics.
Dusan Vukotic
You are using the most easier way to avoid an earnest discourse and
your final defeat. You must remember the hell Piotr (Gasiorowski) went
trough trying to defend wrong conceived RUKI rule. I proved that the
"great scholar" was unable to think properly; he was so deeply engulfed
in "science" that he could not understand even his own (Polish) mother
language.
Let mu remind you
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist_admin/message/145
Piotr: "That's the problem with you: since you lack the basics, even as
regards the simplest facts of Slavic phonology, we speak past each
other. < jesam> has no "h > s"; it is the root *jes < PIE *h1es-
plus the 1sg. ending, i.e. Proto-Slavic *jesmI (= OCS jesmI) < PIE
*h1es-mi, which also underlies Lat. sum, Gk. eimi, Skt. asmi, etc. The
/-h-/ in PSl.*-xU (OCS -xU, Serbian -h) comes from *s in the old
locative ending *-isu (of PIE origin). This *s changed into *x in
pre-Slavic in accordance with the so-called RUKI rule, basically when
preceded by *r, *u, *k or *i (there are similar developments in Baltic
and Indo-Iranian). But I'm afraid I'm wasting my time trying to explain
it in detail. It will be Greek to you unless you show some willingness
to begin with the beginning rather than reinvent linguistics, ignoring
all the achievements of the last 200 years."
Dear Piotr,
First, I do not ignore scientific achievements but trying to observe
them critically. On the other hand, even thousand years of researches
could not be taken as a key argument. In fact, after 200 years of
linguistic "exploration", it seems, we are not far a way from the
starting point. Could you tell me why? Meiner unmaßgeblichen Meinung
nach, if we want to resolve the problem of the evolution of IE
languages we must use semantic and logic at first place in order to
arrange phonological system and phonetic rules afterwards. Sometimes
"the simplest rules" could appear as more complicated and beyond the
reason as we ever expected. Pedersen law sounds to me like, "do you
rather believe to your own eyes than those I am saying"? In other
words, do you rather believe others than you trust yourself?
Let us analyze the basis of "jesam". Is it not an "affirmative" form of
the verb "biti" (bejah, bejasmo)? How do you mean to apply RUKI rule
here? Compare Slavic "istina" (voistina b > v change) and you will
clearly see that "jesam" primarily sounded like "jestham" (jeste, Lat.
est, Ger. ist, "it is"). Follow your mother language (Polish) and you
will find above "jestHam" in form "jestem" (Polish "ja jestem" - I
am). Istina (truth) is static (sta) or unchangeable reality.
Additionally, istina (truth) is a word "glued" by two syllables (sta +
gon) similar to "stegnuti" (constrict, constrain, grip), "stignuti"
(overtake, catch), "stanje" (state, condition, situation), "stanuti"
(step, stop Serb. stopa foot), "stati" (Lat, stagnatio, status,
statio). In fact, Slavic "jest" and "istina" are containing another
one, "hidden" third "syllable" je- or i- coming from gi- (hi-) where
the initial velar was retracted to "i" (je). I am not an expert in
phonetics but I suppose that we could apply here a famous Saussure's
"laryngeal" theory. In this way we are getting the basis g(n)-st-gn,
the same one wherefrom we got "gnezdo" (nest), "nastati" (arise,
originate), "nestati" (vanish), "gost" (guest), "gazda" (host) and a
great number of other words, with different meanings but logically
firmly interwoven (exchange of static and dynamic condition - go +
stay)...
Ja jestem = cogito ergo sum
Regards,
Dušan Vukotic
Dusan Vukotic
You are claiming you have been attacked by me; would you be so kind to
tell me when and how? Post my "chauvinistic" messages and let everybody
see my "ill-composed" character.
Something like this one:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist_admin/message/162
Abdulah obviously believes that Python “sprang out” from Typhon’s
“hurricane”. In reality, there are two bases, one: bli-da-gna
(Python) and the other is da-bli-gna. Of course, the process of
metathesis is evident in these "roots". Python is dragon killed by
Apollo at Delphi and Typhon was a monster with a hundred heads and one
of the whirlwinds.
I know you are allergic to Slavic languages but these words could be
explained only with the help of Slavic vocabulary (especially Serbian).
Namely, Apollo killed “question” (Delphi!), Serbian “pitanje”
(erstwhile plitanje). On the other side is Typhon, strong wind (Serbian
“duvanje” – blowing of the wind, Persian and Arab Tufân –
cyclonic wind, gr. typhein to smoke (Serbian 'duvan' tobacco).. Are you
able to see any resemblance among ‘duvan’, ‘tobacco’ and
Typhon?
Now, after you have ostracized me from your forum I hope you are going
to be more playful in your sterile environment of the baffling
thoughts.
Regards,
Dusan Vukotic
Franz Gnaedinger
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
>
> Of course, he thought of Kosovo.
Yes, the Albanian part of Serbia.
> It seems that Franz wrote this message with the mixed emotions of anger
> and hate.
My feelings are deception. I see valid intuitions in your
word fields, and I see you make mistakes. Believe me,
I got a lot of experience in scientific online fora, and I
fought many a battle with Brian M. Scott and others.
I gave you my advice on the basis of that experience.
The only way you can survive in sci.lang is by providing
arguments. You are of course allowed to defend yourself
if you are being attacked on the personal level, but keep
polite and provide arguments.
> I think, it would be more constructive if he tried to show what was
> wrong with my "journey" from the word A (not any word but the one of
> those I mentioned above) to the word B. We need clear argumentation and
> valid examples (evidences) instead of empty words and sterile rhetoric.
You make a mistake of many posters who try to impress
people with a plethora of cases instead of concentrating
on a single case. Present that single case, and people
will discuss it.
> Franz continues to "advise" me "to stop attacking" Mr. BRAIN not seeing
> at all that the facts speak for themselves: Brian was always the one
> who started the foul conversation and it is not difficult to check
> that. Naturally, it does not bother me; usually it makes the discussion
> livelier, more amusing and interesting.
>
> DV
This will be the last time I repeat myself.
> ps
>
> I have nothing against any person, race, religion or nation, but I must
> repeat the undeniable truth that the "Sqiptar-Illyrian" story is the
> most ridiculous fiction and a myth for the unripe, uneducated and
> naive, half-idiotic people.
My advice was lost on you. I won't repeat myself again.
Franz Gnaedinger
Franz Gnaedinger
bulkington63 wrote:
>
> He's not the only one, eh, Franz?
Here are my rules for improving the Usenet, repeated
once again againer againestly for you (feel flattered):
1) If you are not happy with a message, offer something
better (just complaining won't help)
2) If your kook alarm rings, ask the person in question
to provide one single valid idea, and insist
3) If the previous advice doesn't help, pick out the
worst that person says, and insist
4) All that counts in the sciences are arguments: who
got the better ones? Don't escape to meta- and meta-
meta- and meta-meta-meta-discussions, a-prioris and
ex-cathedras, provide arguments
Rule 3 applies in my case. Pick out the worst I say,
and I shall discuss it.
Franz Gnaedinger
Dusan Vukotic
What about the German part of France? Or Italian part of Switzerland?
Maybe, the Pakistani part of England? Please, do not make a fool of
yourself.
We were discussing linguistic matter and I can not see what interest
you have to advocate the Albanian political aspiration. Especially here
on sci.lang.
Regards,
Dušan Vukotic
Colin Fine
the contrary he is unfailingly polite and good-natured, however contrary
the responses to his posts.
Colin
Dusan Vukotic
- Please, if you see my mistakes why are you not pointing at them
directly?
"Believe me,"
- I believe only what I see with my own eyes and what had been
radically "chawed up" by the voracious jaws of my critical mind.
"I gave you my advice on the basis of that experience."
- Thanks!
"The only way you can survive in sci.lang is by providing
arguments."
- Perfectly natural! It is just what I am trying to do!
Arguments, arguments and nothing but the arguments!
Truth and nothing but the truth!; scientific of course and not the
political one.
"You are of course allowed to defend yourself
if you are being attacked on the personal level, but keep
polite and provide arguments."
- Thank you again, this time for allowing me the right to defend myself
(nothing to do with the Nice ICTY)! Go back to my messages and you will
see they were polite as much as it was possible in corresponding
circumstances.
DV
Dusan Vukotic
You might be right. It is the reason why I began my answer with "it
seems that Franz wrote..."
DV
Dusan Vukotic
Congratulations Franz!
It seems you have achieved your first "excellent" grade. Just follow
the present route of highly specialized advanced Sqiptar-Illyrian
education and you will become the most esteemed scientist in Albania.
Best regards,
Dušan Vukotic