Is this Archaic Greek?
Peter T. Daniels
Jacques Guy wrote:
>
> A book has been reprinted recently, claiming to give
> a decipherment of the Phaistos Disk. Its title "Glyphbreaker"
> and you can order it from www.amazon.com. It is accompanied
> by this blurb:
>
> Synopsis:
> Written by the greatest decipherer that ever lived, Steven Roger
> Fischer--the only person to ever decipher two ancient
> scripts--"Glyphbreaker" is the remarkable story of his two
> decipherments, . the Rongorongo script of Easter Island and the
> Phaistos Disk, and their historical significance. Filled with accounts
> of the remarkable journeys and cultures he encountered,
> the book is fascinating reading for anyone interested in the subject.
<snip>
>
> I have (easily) made my mind about it, but what do *you* think?
Emmett Bennett's review of Fischer's old Phaistos decipherment will
appear in the first issue of *Written Language and Literacy* (which
should be out this spring; the publisher is Benjamins, the editor is
William Bright). Bennett (the leading American scholar of Linear B)
says that *every* Phaistos decipherment (and he gets 'em all!) is
*correct*--because there is absolutely no way of *dis*proving any of
them. If, somehow, the various attempts don't agree among themselves,
well, that's for the individual "decipherers" to fight about, since
there is no possibility of checking them.
His Rongorongo book--which had no takers at its half-price offering of
$82.50 at the Linguistic Society meeting last Sunday--has not convinced
anyone.
BTW, the very first person to decipher any ancient script, Jean-Jacques
Barthelemy, deciphered three of them (Palmyrene, Epigraphic Aramaic,
and Phoenician). So maybe Fischer is right to claim no one else has
deciphered *two* ...
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
Jacques Guy
Please take me seriously, even though it is about the
Phaistos Disk.
A book has been reprinted recently, claiming to give
a decipherment of the Phaistos Disk. Its title "Glyphbreaker"
and you can order it from www.amazon.com. It is accompanied
by this blurb:
Synopsis:
Written by the greatest decipherer that ever lived, Steven Roger
Fischer--the only person to ever decipher two ancient
scripts--"Glyphbreaker" is the remarkable story of his two
decipherments, . the Rongorongo script of Easter Island and the
Phaistos Disk, and their historical significance. Filled with accounts
of the remarkable journeys and cultures he encountered,
the book is fascinating reading for anyone interested in the subject. 15
illus., 5 in color Pub: 8/97.
It goes for the piddling sum of $17.50, but, thanks to an Internet
correspondent of mine, I got the gist of it in one very short
e-mail. My Classical Greek is very rusty, and my Archaic Greek
non-existent. Still, I can hardly believe what I can make out
of this claimed decipherment. To me, it looks like solecism piled
upon solecism. Here it is:
RETRIEVAL STAGE 10 -- FINAL SYLLABIC TEXT
Side A: e-qe ku-ri-ti, / de-ni qe, / ma pa-si, / ma ma-pi. / e-qe
do-ni-di/ ta pa-si qe / ta wo-nu. / e-qe me-ti / o-ra te / e-qe pudate /
ri-pu
ni-si. / e-qe re mo ka. / i-to / e-ta-ne a mo-ti / ke-ri. / e-qe o-ra .
/e-qe ta ta-te-se-ja / di mo/ e-qe o-ra . / e-ta-ne a mo-ti / ke-ri . /
e-qe o-ra . / e-qe ta pe-re-ti-ta / me-ti ro-da / o-ra qe. / e-qe ku-ri
/mo
da-te. / a na-ka. / e-qe ta ta-te-se-ja / ku-ri. / a na-ka.
Side B: e-qe wa ni-si / ta pa-si te / e-se-mo-wi. / wa ne-ta / di-deki
qe / u-mo-ti-mi. / ku-ri i-di / po-si ku-ri-ti. / wa se-we ne / si deni
te /
e-ra-ru-ni / ta-ne ka-ri / ma de-de-ki te / u-pe-ti / ma di-ri. / me
te-re i-di. / e-ko ta-ri. / ma ru-si nu. / ma nu-ku / ma pa-si. / wa ma
ru-si
nu. / ta pi-mo-ne / si ti te / si pa-si, / si mo-ti de. / wa ma ru-si
nu. /
ko-tu i-ti si. / e me te-mo-si / ma pi-mo-ne / pa-si.
RETRIEVAL STAGE 11 -- PROVISIONAL EDITED TEXT OF THE PHAISTOS DISK
Side A: "Ekue, Kurwitis Deneoi-que: ma pasis, ma mapoi! Ekue, Donaidis:
ta pasis-que, ta wosnu! Ekue, melai holwa, te ekue, Puda te Libu nisoi!
Ekue, rheus mon ga: Hillos enta ne an molois Keriun. Ekue holwa! Ekue,
ta
thaleseian Dhioi, mon ekue holwa: enta ne an molois Keriun. Ekue
holwa! Ekue, ta plethita melai lodha holwa-que! Ekue, kurioi, mon
dhates: ans
Nax! Ekue, ta thaleseian kurioi: ans Nax!"
Side B: "Ekue, was nisoi, ta pasis te esemowoi; was nestas dideskoi-que
umotimoi; kurioi Idaioi; ponsis Kurwitis: was seue ne sin Deneis te
erarunai tans Karis, ma dedwekoi, te uphelin ma dweiloi. Me tere,
Idaioi: ekho tarweis. Man lusai nu. Ma nux, ma pasi: was man lusai nu.
Ta pimone
sis toioi te sis pasis, sis moloi de: was man lusai nu. Kotu-ithi sis!
E, me temosai ma pimone pasis!"
RETRIEVAL STAGE 12 -- PROVISIONAL FREE TRANSLATION OF THE PHAISTOS DISK
Side A: "Hear ye, Cretans and Greeks: my great, my quick! Hear ye,
Danaidans, the great, the worthy! Hear ye, all blacks, and hear ye,
Pudaan
and Libyan immigrants! Hear ye, waters, yea earth: Hellas faces battle
with the Carians. Hear ye all! Hear ye, Gods of the Fleet, aye hear ye
all:
faces battle with the Carians. Hear ye all! Hear ye, the multitudes of
black people and all! Hear ye, lords, yea freemen: To Naxos! Hear ye,
Lords of the Fleet: To Naxos!"
Side B: "Hear ye, ye immigrants, the great and the small; ye countrymen
skilled, most stalwart; lords Idaian; all Cretans: Strike ye out with
the Greeks and smite the Carians, mine enemy, and succor my stricken.
Safeguard me, Idaians: I am sore afraid. Loose me now. My night, my
great: Ye
loose me now. These afflictions so terrible and so great, verily so
molestful:
Ye loose me now. Down to the sea, everyone! Yea, deliver me of my great
afflictions!"
Jacques Guy
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Bennett (the leading American scholar of Linear B)
> says that *every* Phaistos decipherment (and he gets 'em all!) is
> *correct*--because there is absolutely no way of *dis*proving any of
> them.
Yes, that in cryptological circles, is know as the "laundry list"
effect. Given a short enough text, it is possible to decipher it
as anything. Your laundry list can be used to prove that you are
a KGB agent, a serial killer, or Shakespeare himself.
> His Rongorongo book--which had no takers at its half-price offering of
> $82.50 at the Linguistic Society meeting last Sunday--has not convinced
> anyone.
I have come to think that the man is clinically insane. What annoys me
is that he has been published in Nature and New Scientist, and that
these journal have flatly refused to publish my rectifications where
I list the logical flaws and the absurdities of the decipherments
proposed. Even the Journal of the Polynesian Society started by
completely ignoring a letter to the editor and an article I sent
them more than a year ago. Towards the middle of next year,
however, they asked me for that article again. But now, they are,
again, looking for excuses not to publish it. I have no intention
of putting up with that kind of crap, however. If it comes to that
I will complain to the board of the Polynesian Society.
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:39:09 -0800, Jacques Guy
<j....@trl.telstra.com.au> wrote:
>Steven Roger Fischer deciphered:
>RETRIEVAL STAGE 10 -- FINAL SYLLABIC TEXT
>
>Side A: e-qe ku-ri-ti, / de-ni qe, / ma pa-si, / ma ma-pi. / e-qe
>do-ni-di/ ta pa-si qe / ta wo-nu. / e-qe me-ti / o-ra te / e-qe pudate /
[snip]
>RETRIEVAL STAGE 12 -- PROVISIONAL FREE TRANSLATION OF THE PHAISTOS DISK
>
>Side A: "Hear ye, Cretans and Greeks: my great, my quick! Hear ye,
>Danaidans, the great, the worthy! Hear ye, all blacks, and hear ye,
>Pudaan
I know of only two Greek verbs for "to hear": akouo: (*akous-), and
kluo: (*kleu-). Neither of them can be descended from "Archaic Greek"
*ekw-. So we can start by scrapping all the "hear ye's".
And what's left after that isn't Archaic Greek either.
==
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ~ ~
Amsterdam _____________ ~ ~
m...@wxs.nl |_____________|||
========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
Harlan Messinger
What is the Phaistos disk? What's the deal with it?
--
Stop phone spam. Help restore quiet to our homes.
When you answer the phone and hear silence, hang up.
If the autodialers pass nothing but hangups to the
operators, the phone spammers will have to give up.
Peter T. Daniels
Harlan Messinger wrote:
>
> What is the Phaistos disk? What's the deal with it?
>
A (baked) clay circular disk, about six inches across and a half inch
thick, excavated at Phaistos, near Knossos, Crete, at the beginning of
the 20th century, which has on each side a spiraling line of symbols
impressed with a set of stamps (like rubberstamps). The symbols are
enclosed in boxes of a few (suggesting perhaps words or sentences). It
sure looks as though it's meant to be a linguistic record, but it can't
be interpreted because there is nothing remotely approaching a
bilingual text--no such symbols have ever been found anywhere. The date
is very early (something like 1700 BC), and the clay has been analyzed
and shown not to come from Crete. (This makes interpretation even
harder, since we have no idea where the object might have been made.)
It's often used to illustrate books on ancient stuff, because it's both
pretty and exotic-looking, as well as mysterious. (You'd know it if you
saw it.)
Anthony West
Jacques Guy (j....@trl.telstra.com.au) wrote:
: Please take me seriously, even though it is about the
: Phaistos Disk.
: A book has been reprinted recently, claiming to give
: a decipherment of the Phaistos Disk.
[snip the bulk of Fischer's reading, up to its stirring
climax:]
: "Ye loose me now. Down to the sea, everyone! Yea, deliver me of my great
: afflictions!"
: I have (easily) made my mind about it, but what do *you* think?
Ye lose me now, Fischer. Down to the sea, for Pete's sake!
Deliver me of my great afflictions.
-Tony West aaw...@critpath.org
Philadelphia
Loren Petrich
In article <69otcb$b...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>His Rongorongo book--which had no takers at its half-price offering of
>$82.50 at the Linguistic Society meeting last Sunday--has not convinced
>anyone.
I wonder if he's gone on the Internet -- distribution is *much*
cheaper that way.
--
Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
pet...@netcom.com And a fast train
My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
Loren Petrich
In article <34C136...@trl.telstra.com.au>,
Jacques Guy <j....@trl.telstra.com.au> wrote:
>> His Rongorongo book--which had no takers at its half-price offering of
>> $82.50 at the Linguistic Society meeting last Sunday--has not convinced
>> anyone.
>I have come to think that the man is clinically insane. What annoys me
>is that he has been published in Nature and New Scientist, and that
>these journal have flatly refused to publish my rectifications where
>I list the logical flaws and the absurdities of the decipherments
>proposed. Even the Journal of the Polynesian Society started by
>completely ignoring a letter to the editor and an article I sent
>them more than a year ago. Towards the middle of next year,
>however, they asked me for that article again. But now, they are,
>again, looking for excuses not to publish it. I have no intention
>of putting up with that kind of crap, however. If it comes to that
>I will complain to the board of the Polynesian Society.
I propose the ultimate in vanity publication: the Internet.
Simply rent some webspace from some ISP (there are some that specialize
in doing that, such as Webcom), and put the documents there -- and the
whole sad story.