Saginaw
António Marques
Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about. What I'm
wondering about is the profusion of Saginaws across the US. Not really
across, since they seem to be located within a relatively narrow N-S
strip, but still I wonder how a name that looks native american can be
found in places so different as Michigan and Texas. A number of
explanations come to mind, of course (settlers carrying the name
around, tribes being relocated, different native names coalescing,
etc), but it would be interesting to know the true story. And whether
there are any other widespread native names. Does anybody know?
Thanks.
Peter T. Daniels
From Bill Bright's *Native American Place Names of the United States*
(U OK Pr, 2004):
SAGINAW County (Mich.) \sag' i no^\. From Ojibwa (Algonquian) /
sa:ki:na:N/ 'in the *Sauk* country', referring to /osa:ki:/ 'Sauk,
people of the outlet' (of the *Saginaw River*) (I. Goddard p.c.). The
placename *Saginaw* has been transferred to several states (e.g.
Minn., St. Louis Co,; N.J., Sussex Co,; and Alaska, Port Alexander
D-1). Probably related placenames include *Osakis* (Minn., Douglas
Co.) and *Ozaukee County* (Wis.).
António Marques
Well, thank you.
To expose my ignorance: I had no idea native american languages had been
William Bright's chief field of interest.
I still wonder why Saginaw is so well known.
Peter T. Daniels
I think he would say that his interests were divided equally among
Native American (his heritage from Mary Haas), Dravidian (his heritage
from Murray Emineau), and sociolinguistics (where he seems himself to
have been the founder; at least, he edited the very first volume
bearing that title, and if I had it, I could see who organized the
conference it reported).
When I looked into the Encyclopaedia Britannica's treatment of
language and linguistics in the 15th edition (see, in fact, the Bright
Festschrift), the administrative assistant who handled that field for
Mortimer Adler told me that his article on North American languages
was the only article in the entire work where the editors did not
alter a word.
> I still wonder why Saginaw is so well known.-
Is it? Compared to what?
António Marques
> On Dec 22, 11:07 am, António Marques<antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>> To expose my ignorance: I had no idea native american languages had been
>> William Bright's chief field of interest.
>
> I think he would say that his interests were divided equally among
> Native American (his heritage from Mary Haas), Dravidian (his heritage
> from Murray Emineau), and sociolinguistics (where he seems himself to
> have been the founder; at least, he edited the very first volume
> bearing that title, and if I had it, I could see who organized the
> conference it reported).
Something else I had no idea of (sociolinguistics).
> When I looked into the Encyclopaedia Britannica's treatment of
> language and linguistics in the 15th edition (see, in fact, the Bright
> Festschrift), the administrative assistant who handled that field for
> Mortimer Adler told me that his article on North American languages
> was the only article in the entire work where the editors did not
> alter a word.
>
>> I still wonder why Saginaw is so well known.
>
> Is it? Compared to what?
The boatloads of small US cities that are larger than it (in Michigan alone
there seem to be quite a few) and yet the general public has never heard about.
Peter T. Daniels
You might check whether it was the home of a company that produced a
line that was marketed all over the country (no one would have heard
of Cupertino or Redmond but for that circumstance), or perhaps a
popular summer resort.
Adam Funk
I assumed it was well-known outside of the region mainly because of
the Simon & Garfunkel song that you mentioned earlier.
--
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway;
Whatever it is, I'm against it! [Prof. Wagstaff]
António Marques
> On 2009-12-22, António Marques wrote:
>
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote (22-12-2009 16:45):
> >> On Dec 22, 11:07 am, António Marques<antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> >>> I still wonder why Saginaw is so well known.
>
> >> Is it? Compared to what?
>
> > The boatloads of small US cities that are larger than it (in Michigan alone
> > there seem to be quite a few) and yet the general public has never heard about.
>
> I assumed it was well-known outside of the region mainly because of
> the Simon & Garfunkel song that you mentioned earlier.
And Lefty Frizzell's. But one would think that for them to choose to
mention it in a song, it should have some previous claim to
recognition. I also wonder why its name was transferred, as William
Bright says, to other states. Maybe it was a popular resort at some
point, as Peter suggests, and I thought that fact would still be well
known nowadays.
Prai Jei
continuum:
> Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
> from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
> and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about.
Excuse my ignorance of things Stateside, but Saginaw, Michigan certainly
seems a more exciting place than Toledo, Ohio that John Denver wrote a song
about.
(I am familiar with the first two Saginaw references from the OP but not the
third. Enlightenment please?)
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Peter T. Daniels
> António Marques set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
> > Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
> > from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
> > and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about.
>
> Excuse my ignorance of things Stateside, but Saginaw, Michigan certainly
> seems a more exciting place than Toledo, Ohio that John Denver wrote a song
> about.
>
> (I am familiar with the first two Saginaw references from the OP but not the
> third. Enlightenment please?)
I didn't know those are song references. Perhaps the name was used
simply for its stress pattern, as in the last Beach Boys hit,
"Kokomo" (which isn't by Brian Wilson).
António Marques
> António Marques set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>> Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
>> from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
>> and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about.
>
> Excuse my ignorance of things Stateside, but Saginaw, Michigan certainly
> seems a more exciting place than Toledo, Ohio that John Denver wrote a song
> about.
But why? Someone said Madonna was born in the respective Minneapolis, but
that can't be the reason. Maybe it was a seaside resort at some point.
> (I am familiar with the first two Saginaw references from the OP but not the
> third. Enlightenment please?)
Oh, just a youtube comment [on a Lefty Frizzell's TV performance of that
song]. Something like
"
I got stuck in traffic in Saginaw, Michigan, the other day.
I'm wondering whether I should write a song about that.
"
Prai Jei
continuum:
> On Dec 28, 7:45 am, Prai Jei <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> António Marques set the following eddies spiralling through the
>> space-time continuum:
>>
>> > Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
>> > from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
>> > and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about.
>>
>> Excuse my ignorance of things Stateside, but Saginaw, Michigan certainly
>> seems a more exciting place than Toledo, Ohio that John Denver wrote a
>> song about.
>>
>> (I am familiar with the first two Saginaw references from the OP but not
>> the third. Enlightenment please?)
>
> I didn't know those are song references. Perhaps the name was used
> simply for its stress pattern, as in the last Beach Boys hit,
> "Kokomo" (which isn't by Brian Wilson).
"I was born in Saginaw, Michigan" is the first line of a C&W ballad, where
the hero says he has struck gold up in Alaska, then freely hands over his
Klondike claim to his prospective father-in-law in exchange for his
daughter. The song ends with the father-in-law up in Alaska looking for the
gold he never found.
"It serves him right, and no-one here is missing him,
Least of all the newlyweds of Saginaw, Michigan."
"It took me four days to hitch-hike from Saginaw" is a line from the Simon
and Garfunkel classic "America".
Peter T. Daniels
> Peter T. Daniels set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 7:45 am, Prai Jei <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> António Marques set the following eddies spiralling through the
> >> space-time continuum:
>
> >> > Some were born in Saginaw, MI, to some it took 4 days to hitchhike
> >> > from there, and some just got stuck in the traffic there the other day
> >> > and are wondering whether that's worth writing a song about.
>
> >> Excuse my ignorance of things Stateside, but Saginaw, Michigan certainly
> >> seems a more exciting place than Toledo, Ohio that John Denver wrote a
> >> song about.
>
> >> (I am familiar with the first two Saginaw references from the OP but not
> >> the third. Enlightenment please?)
>
> > I didn't know those are song references. Perhaps the name was used
> > simply for its stress pattern, as in the last Beach Boys hit,
> > "Kokomo" (which isn't by Brian Wilson).
>
> "I was born in Saginaw, Michigan" is the first line of a C&W ballad, where
> the hero says he has struck gold up in Alaska, then freely hands over his
> Klondike claim to his prospective father-in-law in exchange for his
> daughter. The song ends with the father-in-law up in Alaska looking for the
> gold he never found.
> "It serves him right, and no-one here is missing him,
> Least of all the newlyweds of Saginaw, Michigan."
Maybe the author really was from Saginaw, MI. Just as Judy Garland
really was born (in a trunk?) in Pocatello, Idaho (as in the song from
*A Star Is Born*).
> "It took me four days to hitch-hike from Saginaw" is a line from the Simon
> and Garfunkel classic "America".
Could be an hommage to the earlier song?