Peek-a-boo
Matthew Montchalin
The three words 'peek a boo' are instantly recognizable to all speakers
of English. Is there a corresponding term in the other Germanic languages?
(I don't think there is one in Latin, and would be inclined to think that
the Romance languages, if they have that term, employ a wordy
circumlocution.)
--
Bettina Price
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7frmk7$147$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
>
>The three words 'peek a boo' are instantly recognizable to all speakers
>of English. Is there a corresponding term in the other Germanic languages?
>
In German, it is called "Kuckuck", which is the word for "cuckoo". I have
often wondered though whether it doesn't really stem from a doubling up of
the imperative of the verb "kucken", i.e. "kuck-kuck", which would translate
as "peek-peek". I do find it amazing how it can reduce my son to helpless
giggles every time we play it.
Bettina
--
Bettina Cornelia Price
bet...@pappnase.demon.co.uk
Technical translations Eng > Ger, tourist brochures only when desperate
Company motto: I can do waffle in my sleep
Martin Hilvers
--
MH ('77 96 '78 95 '79 96)
Remove NOSPAM from E-mail address.
Mary Cassidy
> >The three words 'peek a boo' are instantly recognizable to all speakers
> >of English. Is there a corresponding term in the other Germanic languages?
> >the Romance languages, if they have that term, employ a wordy
> >circumlocution.)
>
Bettina Price replied:
> In German, it is called "Kuckuck", which is the word for "cuckoo". I have
> often wondered though whether it doesn't really stem from a doubling up of
> the imperative of the verb "kucken", i.e. "kuck-kuck", which would translate
> as "peek-peek". I do find it amazing how it can reduce my son to helpless
> giggles every time we play it.
>
Actually, Italian doesn't employ a wordy circumlocution for once; as in
German, the usual word is "cuců!". (In Italian, this is the sound made
by the cuckoo, not its name, which is 'cuculo').
However, in the Lombardy dialects, "Bau...cetti!" (pronounced
'bow-chetty') is also commonly said when playing the same game. No idea
about about the derivation, though.
Whatever the word, it still reduces all small children to helpless
laughter, but I think the actual peeking has something to do with that.
Just to complicate matters, when I was a child in the UK we didn't say
"peek-a-boo", but "peep-bo!" I always assumed at the time that there was
a connection with "Bo-Peep" :-)
Mary
(remove "nospam" to reply)
Are dog biscuits made from collie flour?
Katie Gustafsson
Georges-Louis KOCHER
In French: "coucou" (designates the bird and what children use to shout when
they're playing hide-and-seek). Certainly an onomatopoeia, like "wolf",
"cow", "snake",
etc.
--
Cordialement/Regards,
Georges-Louis KOCHER
True philosopher (Beware of imitations, and pticly of Plato!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Non cogito, ergo felix sum. (Descartes revised)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Bettina Price wrote in message
<924946718.26005.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>
>Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7frmk7$147$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
>>
>>The three words 'peek a boo' are instantly recognizable to all speakers
>>of English. Is there a corresponding term in the other Germanic
languages?
>>
>>snip
>
>In German, it is called "Kuckuck", which is the word for "cuckoo". I have
>often wondered though whether it doesn't really stem from a doubling up of
>the imperative of the verb "kucken", i.e. "kuck-kuck", which would
translate
>as "peek-peek". I do find it amazing how it can reduce my son to helpless
>giggles every time we play it.
>
Matthew Montchalin
| In German, it is called "Kuckuck", which is the word for "cuckoo". I
| have often wondered though whether it doesn't really stem from a doubling
| up of the imperative of the verb "kucken", i.e. "kuck-kuck", which would
| translate as "peek-peek". I do find it amazing how it can reduce my son
| to helpless giggles every time we play it.
:)
What parts of Germany use 'kucken' for 'gucken,' and vice versa?
--
Matthew Montchalin
In a previous article, cassid...@gvo.it (Mary Cassidy) says:
>However, in the Lombardy dialects, "Bau...cetti!" (pronounced
Is this connected with the English verb 'boo' --- to boo a performer, as
to raise a hue and cry against a bad performance at a theater?
>'bow-chetty') is also commonly said when playing the same game. No idea
>about about the derivation, though.
I find this truly amazing... If the expression is purely European, or ...
Is there a correspondence in Hebrew and Arabic? What about the languages
in India?
>Whatever the word, it still reduces all small children to helpless
>laughter, but I think the actual peeking has something to do with that.
>Just to complicate matters, when I was a child in the UK we didn't say
>"peek-a-boo", but "peep-bo!"
Amazing! And is that the practice in ... what part of the UK was it?
>I always assumed at the time that there was a connection with "Bo-Peep" :-)
Ah!
--
Bettina Price
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7fsqnf$9sr$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
>
>snip
>What parts of Germany use 'kucken' for 'gucken,' and vice versa?
"Kucken" is mostly used in northern Germany, but I think the "kuckuck" is
nationwide.
Matthew Montchalin
Matthew Montchalin wondered:
>>What parts of Germany use 'kucken' for 'gucken,' and vice versa?
Bettina Price wrote:
>"Kucken" is mostly used in northern Germany, but I think the "kuckuck" is
>nationwide.
I was referring to the verb, not the noun, let alone the onomatopoeiac
interjection that sounds similar.
--
John Woodgate
inimitably wrote:
>However, in the Lombardy dialects, "Bau...cetti!" (pronounced
>about about the derivation, though.
It's obviously an arcane reference to Cetti's Warbler, which is prone to
rearing cuckoo chicks. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124.
Did you hear about the hungry genetic engineer who made a pig of himself?
Mary Cassidy
> In a previous article, cassid...@gvo.it (Mary Cassidy) says:
> >However, in the Lombardy dialects, "Bau...cetti!"
> ^^^
> >(pronounced bow-chetty') is also commonly said when playing the same game.
> >No idea about about the derivation, though.
> Is this connected with the English verb 'boo' --- to boo a performer, as
> to raise a hue and cry against a bad performance at a theater?
No, Italians don't boo, they whistle.
"Bau-bau" means "bow-bow", and "fare bau" means to frighten children.
At a guess I should think it's related to "babau" (bogeyman).
> >Just to complicate matters, when I was a child in the UK we didn't say
> >"peek-a-boo", but "peep-bo!"
>
> Amazing! And is that the practice in ... what part of the UK was it?
Leicestershire. Well, it was in my family, but I can't speak for anyone
else. And my father was Australian.
Mary Cassidy
> "Bau-bau" means "bow-bow" (snip)
Sorry, that should have been bow-wow, of course.
Bettina Price
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7ftcf2$eao$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
I know, Matthew, and that _is_ what I answered to. I capitalized the verb
"kucken" because it was at the beginning of the sentence (that rule sound
familiar?) and then stuck in the remark about the "kuckuck" because I had
brought the verb "kucken" up in that context (that's what this thread was
all about, if you remember).
I find the tone of your post quite patronizing. Is that something that
comes naturally to you, or was it just an accident?
Matthew Montchalin
>I find the tone of your post quite patronizing.
Sorry.
>Is that something that comes naturally to you, or was it just an accident?
Just that I was wondering more about gucken than kucken, and I've never
seen guckuck for kuckuck, and kuckuck looks curiously close to the more
readily recognizable cuculus. (If I may digress, tell me, is there an
Auskuck as there is an Ausguck, when it comes to nautical terminology?)
What year, roughly, did the 'g' become unvoiced? Or if the reverse
occurred, what year did the 'k' become voiced?
--
Bettina Price
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7g182l$f14$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
>
>Just that I was wondering more about gucken than kucken, and I've never
>seen guckuck for kuckuck,
No, neither have I. Since I had postulated the theory of "kuckuck" possibly
being related to "kucken", I realized I should mention it the differing
spread of usages, since it seemed to undermine said idea. I like my pet
theories, but only to a point.
and kuckuck looks curiously close to the more
>readily recognizable cuculus. (If I may digress, tell me, is there an
>Auskuck as there is an Ausguck, when it comes to nautical terminology?)
Yes.
>What year, roughly, did the 'g' become unvoiced? Or if the reverse
>occurred, what year did the 'k' become voiced?
What a question :-)! I really don't think it has an answer. From my point of
view, the only certain answer I can give you is "no later than 1967, since
that is when I was talking fluently and that is how it was pronounced then",
but realistically speaking, it is a regional variation that occurs in
northern Germany, and probably has always been pronounced like that. In
Plattdeutsch, the equivalent is "kieken" (as in "kiek mol wedder rin"), a
"Kieker" is colloquial for an "Ausguck". "Kieken" goes back to the times of
Mittelniederdeutsch (origins unknown). Possibly the northgermans just mixed
it with their pronunciation of gucken (from althochdeutsch "guckan" and that
from the westgermanic "guggjan") when trying to speak hochdeutsch, since the
words are so similar that one could almost think that the one was just the
plattdeutsche pronunciation of the other. (As a matter of fact, until I
looked things up just now, that is exactly what I thought. I was quite
surprised.)
It definitely isn't a recent development, though.
Anyhow, if you ever want to pick a fight up north in Germany, saying "Kuck'
nich' so blöd" in an aggressive tone to somebody is a good idea - it'll get
you instant attention...
Toby OCM
Bettina Price <bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> but realistically speaking, it is a regional variation that occurs in
> northern Germany, and probably has always been pronounced like that. In
> Plattdeutsch, the equivalent is "kieken" (as in "kiek mol wedder rin"),
Closely related to the Dutch 'kijken'.
But - he said coming in mid-thread - wouldn't 'kuckuck' be related to the
'cuckoo' noise that people make when playing peekaboo (I know that the
Dutch say 'koekoe' in this sense) rather than anything to do with looking?
mvg
Toby
Martin Hilvers
>
> Bettina Price <bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> > but realistically speaking, it is a regional variation that occurs in
> > northern Germany, and probably has always been pronounced like that. In
> > Plattdeutsch, the equivalent is "kieken" (as in "kiek mol wedder rin"),
>
> Closely related to the Dutch 'kijken'.
In the Groningen en Drenthe dialects (German border region) it is
"kiek'n" (with gluttural stop) for "kijken".
as in "Wos't wol ee'm kiek'n?" - (Do you want to take a look?) "Wil je
wel even kijken?"
> (I know that the Dutch say 'koekoe' in this sense) rather than anything to do with looking?
We say koekoek (for the bird) and kiekeboe for the
now-you-see-me-now-you-don't game.
Bettina Price
Toby OCM wrote in message <01be8ff0$ab637ea0$793770c2@vivamus>...
>
>
>Bettina Price <bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
>> but realistically speaking, it is a regional variation that occurs in
>> northern Germany, and probably has always been pronounced like that. In
>> Plattdeutsch, the equivalent is "kieken" (as in "kiek mol wedder rin"),
>
>Closely related to the Dutch 'kijken'.
>
>Dutch say 'koekoe' in this sense) rather than anything to do with looking?
>
I think this is becoming the thread of Ouroboros :-). It started out by
Matthew asking what the game of peek-a-boo was called in other languages, I
piped up with the fact that the game is called kuckuck (cuckoo), then
wondered whether it was maybe also related to the word "kucken", since that
means something like "peek", Mattew asked me where that verb was used, cause
he only knew gucken - and now we are back at the beginning. (soundfx: mad,
cackling laughter, ending in soft sobs and snuffles.)
You are right, Toby, but then, the thread is called peek-a-boo. Dead
giveaway there ;-)...
I'm going for a lie-down.
Les M
too...I'm warning you!
That's it, we're turning around and going home...
Bettina Price <bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:925035787.29318.2...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7ftcf2$eao$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
> >
> >Matthew Montchalin wondered:
> >>>What parts of Germany use 'kucken' for 'gucken,' and vice versa?
> >
> >Bettina Price wrote:
> >>"Kucken" is mostly used in northern Germany, but I think the "kuckuck"
is
> >>nationwide.
> >
> >I was referring to the verb, not the noun, let alone the onomatopoeiac
> >interjection that sounds similar.
>
>
> I know, Matthew, and that _is_ what I answered to. I capitalized the verb
> "kucken" because it was at the beginning of the sentence (that rule sound
> familiar?) and then stuck in the remark about the "kuckuck" because I had
> brought the verb "kucken" up in that context (that's what this thread was
> all about, if you remember).
> I find the tone of your post quite patronizing. Is that something that
> comes naturally to you, or was it just an accident?
>
Toby OCM
> now-you-see-me-now-you-don't game.
You are quite right, and it just goes to show how long it is since I was a
little Dutch boy (to all intents and purposes). Oh for the carefree days
of Autoloze Zondag (or should that be car-free?).
mvg
Toby
Matthew Montchalin
In a previous article, bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk ("Bettina Price") says:
>>But - he said coming in mid-thread - wouldn't 'kuckuck' be related to the
>>'cuckoo' noise that people make when playing peekaboo (I know that the
>>Dutch say 'koekoe' in this sense) rather than anything to do with looking?
What rascal suggested that it was related to the cry of the wild-eyed
cuckoo?! (It *could* be, come to think of it, but it wasn't yours truly
that came up with that proposition... As for the word 'boo' --- um, say,
could it be related to the Latin boare (to roar, echo), or the
interjection bombax (bang! Now, cf. tuxtax, thud!)??)
>I think this is becoming the thread of Ouroboros :-). It started out by
>Matthew asking what the game of peek-a-boo was called in other languages,
>I piped up with the fact that the game is called kuckuck (cuckoo), then
^^^^^
When it was suggested that some people in the UK played 'peep a boo' (or
something like that), were they just kidding me? I am fascinated with the
possibility that there is a connection with little Miss Bo Peep!
>wondered whether it was maybe also related to the word "kucken", since that
>means something like "peek", Mattew asked me where that verb was used, cause
>he only knew gucken - and now we are back at the beginning. (soundfx: mad,
>cackling laughter, ending in soft sobs and snuffles.)
Bwuahahaha
>You are right, Toby, but then, the thread is called peek-a-boo. Dead
>giveaway there ;-)...
>
>I'm going for a lie-down.
BTW, my 70 year old mother just now mentioned to me that there was once an
illustrated comic strip called Li'l Abner, and in that strip there was a
(probably fermented and distilled) beverage called 'Kickapoo Joy Juice' ---
now, could there be a connection between kickapoo and kiekeboe?
--
Mary Cassidy
> When it was suggested that some people in the UK played 'peep a boo' (or
> something like that), were they just kidding me? I am fascinated with the
> possibility that there is a connection with little Miss Bo Peep!
No, we really said "peep-bo" when I was a child, but I don't know if
it's common in the UK or was restricted to my family or district. Of
course, Peep-bo was a character in Gilbert and Sullivan's comic opera
The Mikado (another character was called Ko-ko).
I did a quick search of the web out of curiosity, and found these
amazing lyrics by the Cocteau Twins (I'm only quoting the first bit - it
goes on and on, and there are some gaps where the writer couldn't
understand what they were saying):
"Peep-bo
Peach blow
Pandora
Pompadour
Pale leaf
Pink sweet
Persephone
Near o ????
(Peep peep-bo)
Bit donimo
(Peep peep)
He didn't deal ????
(Peep peep-bo)
With the part animal
(Peep peep)
Near o ????
(Peep peep-bo)
Bit donimo
(Peep peep)
He didn't deal ????
(Peep peep-bo)"
Make what you can of that!
Bettina Price
Les M wrote in message <7g2k76$qcv$1...@news.smart.net>...
>Allright you two...don't make me turn this newsgroup around! I'll do it
>too...I'm warning you!
>That's it, we're turning around and going home...
>
>
Bettina Price
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message <7g312r$v8$1...@news2.OregonVOS.net>...
Toby said this, not me:
>>>But - he said coming in mid-thread - wouldn't 'kuckuck' be related to the
>>>'cuckoo' noise that people make when playing peekaboo (I know that the
>>>Dutch say 'koekoe' in this sense) rather than anything to do with
looking?
>
>What rascal suggested that it was related to the cry of the wild-eyed
>cuckoo?!
No, he is trying to say that they do that in Germany, I think (Tobes, where
are you? Help?). With the "he" Toby is referring to himself bursting in on
our debate (commenting on one's actions in the third person is often done to
soften the impact or for comic effect, she said patronizingly). Or is this
whole confusion caused by the fact that you don't
know that "Kuckuck" is the German word for cuckoo? No, that can't be right,
either.
> (It *could* be, come to think of it, but it wasn't yours truly
>that came up with that proposition...
No, me, me , me!
> As for the word 'boo' --- um, say,
>could it be related to the Latin boare (to roar, echo), or the
>interjection bombax (bang! Now, cf. tuxtax, thud!)??)
Or how about Hui-buh, the Schloßgespenst or the Buhmann (Bogeyman) ;-).
>>I think this is becoming the thread of Ouroboros :-). It started out by
>>Matthew asking what the game of peek-a-boo was called in other languages,
>>I piped up with the fact that the game is called kuckuck (cuckoo), then
> ^^^^^
>When it was suggested that some people in the UK played 'peep a boo' (or
>something like that), were they just kidding me? I am fascinated with the
>possibility that there is a connection with little Miss Bo Peep!
No, they weren't kidding, that is exactly what my husband plays with my son:
Peep-bo. Maybe she got her name by a simple inversion, since the words would
already have been familiar to children.
Who knows?
>>wondered whether it was maybe also related to the word "kucken", since
that
>>means something like "peek", Mattew asked me where that verb was used,
cause
>>he only knew gucken - and now we are back at the beginning. (soundfx: mad,
>>cackling laughter, ending in soft sobs and snuffles.)
>
>Bwuahahaha
>
>>You are right, Toby, but then, the thread is called peek-a-boo. Dead
>>giveaway there ;-)...
>>
>>I'm going for a lie-down.
>
>BTW, my 70 year old mother just now mentioned to me that there was once an
>illustrated comic strip called Li'l Abner, and in that strip there was a
>(probably fermented and distilled) beverage called 'Kickapoo Joy Juice' ---
>now, could there be a connection between kickapoo and kiekeboe?
Nope, the Kickapoo were an American native tribe (Algonquian) round the
Wisconsin/Illinois area. Before I make myself look like too much of a
smarty-pants, I knew they were a tribe, but I looked the rest up. My
bog-standard Websters had the information, would you believe it.
But then, maybe those natives had the habit of popping out of the underbrush
that briefly reminded the first Dutch settlers of their childhood games, as
in: "Oh, look, the funny man is playing kiekeb..- argh", thus making the
etymology of the name virtually impossible to trace...
How does Walter Skeat put it so nicely in his Dictionary of English
Etymology: Or. unknown, guesses wild, and unsatisfactory.
Greetings,
Matthew Montchalin
In a previous article, bettina...@pappnase.demon.co.uk ("Bettina Price") says:
>Or is this whole confusion caused by the fact that you don't know that
>"Kuckuck" is the German word for cuckoo?
I have a hard time visualizing cuckoo birds as the source of the
peek-a-boo game... When I think of cuckoo birds, I think of fried
chicken, or one of those little birds that come out of Grandfather Clocks.
Maybe, deep down inside, it seems like they aren't playing the game right
in Germany, if they cry out 'kuckuck' (in high note fashion) instead of in
the rhythmic fashion of 'PEEK a boo' ...
>No, that can't be right, either.
Doesn't seem to be.
>> (It *could* be, come to think of it, but it wasn't yours truly
>>that came up with that proposition...
>
>No, me, me , me!
>
>>As for the word 'boo' --- um, say, could it be related to the Latin boare
>>(to roar, echo), or the interjection bombax (bang! Now, cf.
>>tuxtax, thud!)??)
>
>Or how about Hui-buh, the Schloßgespenst or the Buhmann (Bogeyman) ;-).
hmmm :)
BTW, we have yet to find out whether the Irish ever played the game...
--
Mary Cassidy
> I think this is becoming the thread of Ouroboros :-).
Well, if we're going to get abstruse here... I'm sure we could somehow make the
connection via Ariadne's thread and Penelope's web to Little Miss Muffet. :-)
Toby OCM
> peek-a-boo game...
Cuckoo clocks, where they pop in and out, going cuckoo? (now you see them,
now you don't).
mvg
Toby
VernonH
>BTW, my 70 year old mother just now mentioned to me that there was once an
>illustrated comic strip called Li'l Abner, and in that strip there was a
>(probably fermented and distilled) beverage called 'Kickapoo Joy Juice' ---
>now, could there be a connection between kickapoo and kiekeboe?
>--
********
There is an Indian tribe named Kickapoo.
Vern
Vernon C. Hammond,O.D.
McAllen, TX 78501
Toby OCM
They spent a lot of time treading in bison pats.
Their neighbouring tribe, the Throwapoo, invented cow-chip throwing.
mvg
Toby