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Telling a hawk from a handsaw
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Sh.Mandrake
May 18, 2012, 9:36:23 AM5/18/12
to
What does that mean?
--
Hakuna matata,
Le Magicien
--
Hakuna matata,
Le Magicien
Loekie Ratelkous
May 18, 2012, 10:16:10 AM5/18/12
to
Op 18-5-2012 15:36, Sh.Mandrake schreef:
> What does that mean?
>
Not my mother tongue, but my guess would be "seeing obvious facts".
--
groetsels
Loek
> What does that mean?
>
Not my mother tongue, but my guess would be "seeing obvious facts".
--
groetsels
Loek
Thor Kottelin
May 18, 2012, 11:16:26 AM5/18/12
to
"Sh.Mandrake" <mand...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
news:jp5j8j$5ci$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> What does that mean?
"I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
--
Thor Kottelin
http://www.anta.net/
news:jp5j8j$5ci$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> What does that mean?
"I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
--
Thor Kottelin
http://www.anta.net/
Sh.Mandrake
May 18, 2012, 11:36:40 AM5/18/12
to
Le 18/05/2012 17:16, Thor Kottelin a écrit :
> "Sh.Mandrake" <mand...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
> news:jp5j8j$5ci$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> What does that mean?
>
> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
Interesting quotation, but what does it mean exactly??
> "Sh.Mandrake" <mand...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
> news:jp5j8j$5ci$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> What does that mean?
>
> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
Thor Kottelin
May 18, 2012, 11:42:49 AM5/18/12
to
"Sh.Mandrake" <mand...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
news:jp5qa4$on9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Lanarcam
May 18, 2012, 12:02:12 PM5/18/12
to
Le 18/05/2012 17:42, Thor Kottelin a �crit :
exactly as you say:
"HAMLET - Je ne suis fou que par le vent du nord-nord
ouest: quand le vent est au sud, je peux distinguer
un faucon d'un h�ron."
http://www.pitbook.com/textes/pdf/hamlet.pdf
> "Sh.Mandrake" <mand...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
> news:jp5qa4$on9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Le 18/05/2012 17:16, Thor Kottelin a �crit :
> news:jp5qa4$on9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
>>> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
>>
>> Interesting quotation, but what does it mean exactly??
>
> I read it as insanity vs. (at least a kind of) sanity.
>
It was translated by Victor Hugo, no less and it is
>>> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
>>> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
>>
>> Interesting quotation, but what does it mean exactly??
>
> I read it as insanity vs. (at least a kind of) sanity.
>
exactly as you say:
"HAMLET - Je ne suis fou que par le vent du nord-nord
ouest: quand le vent est au sud, je peux distinguer
un faucon d'un h�ron."
http://www.pitbook.com/textes/pdf/hamlet.pdf
Ramsman
May 18, 2012, 12:35:35 PM5/18/12
to
On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
> What does that mean?
>
It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
old word for a heron.
Seems plausible to me.
--
Peter
> What does that mean?
>
It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
old word for a heron.
Seems plausible to me.
--
Peter
Sh.Mandrake
May 19, 2012, 1:10:53 PM5/19/12
to
Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a hawk
and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
Evertjan.
May 19, 2012, 4:59:34 PM5/19/12
to
Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>> What does that mean?
>>>
>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>
>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
>> of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
>> old word for a heron.
Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>> What does that mean?
>>>
>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>
>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
>> of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
>> old word for a heron.
> Seems plausible to me.
>
> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a hawk
> and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
[ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
(Zoology) A heron.
[ Written variously hernshaw , harnsey , etc.]
<http://www.encyclo.co.uk/webster/H/36>
<http://www.word-detective.com/2012/02/hawk-from-a-handsaw/>
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Lanarcam
May 19, 2012, 5:01:55 PM5/19/12
to
Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a �crit :
> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>
>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>
>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>
>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
>>> of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
>>> old word for a heron.
>
> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>
>> Seems plausible to me.
>>
>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a hawk
>> and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>
> Heronshaw noun
> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
>
>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>
>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>
>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives lots
>>> of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of "hernshaw", an
>>> old word for a heron.
>
> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>
>> Seems plausible to me.
>>
>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a hawk
>> and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>
> Heronshaw noun
> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
Evertjan.
May 19, 2012, 5:24:58 PM5/19/12
to
Lanarcam wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
> Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a écrit :
>> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>
>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>
>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>
>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>
>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>
>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>
>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>
>> Heronshaw noun
>> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of héron . See Heron .]
"-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
perhaps?
The "cel" suffix probably was not understood anymore
as being a diminuative,
[like in It. violoncello -> cello or
'demoiselle en détresse' -> 'damsel in distress'],
and so could more freely change as a meaningless suffix.
Just conjecture, ofcource.
>> (Zoology) A heron.
>> [ Written variously hernshaw , harnsey , etc.]
>>
>> <http://www.encyclo.co.uk/webster/H/36>
>>
>> <http://www.word-detective.com/2012/02/hawk-from-a-handsaw/>
>>
>
>
> Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a écrit :
>> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>
>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>
>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>
>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>
>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>
>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>
>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>
>> Heronshaw noun
>
> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
By the pronounciation change
> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
"-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
perhaps?
The "cel" suffix probably was not understood anymore
as being a diminuative,
[like in It. violoncello -> cello or
'demoiselle en détresse' -> 'damsel in distress'],
and so could more freely change as a meaningless suffix.
Just conjecture, ofcource.
>> (Zoology) A heron.
>> [ Written variously hernshaw , harnsey , etc.]
>>
>> <http://www.encyclo.co.uk/webster/H/36>
>>
>> <http://www.word-detective.com/2012/02/hawk-from-a-handsaw/>
>>
>
>
Lanarcam
May 19, 2012, 6:24:00 PM5/19/12
to
Le 19/05/2012 23:24, Evertjan. a �crit :
When I saw hernshaw at first, I didn't thought about a heron.
The pronounciation in French is far from that of hern.
> Lanarcam wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>
>> Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a �crit :
>
>>> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>>
>>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>>
>>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>>
>>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>>
>>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>>
>>> Heronshaw noun
>>> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
>>>
>>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>>
>>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>>
>>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>>
>>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>>
>>> Heronshaw noun
>>
>> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
>
> By the pronounciation change
> "-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
> perhaps?
Possible.
>> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
>
> By the pronounciation change
> "-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
> perhaps?
When I saw hernshaw at first, I didn't thought about a heron.
The pronounciation in French is far from that of hern.
>
> The "cel" suffix probably was not understood anymore
> as being a diminuative,
> [like in It. violoncello -> cello or
> 'demoiselle en d�tresse' -> 'damsel in distress'],
> The "cel" suffix probably was not understood anymore
> as being a diminuative,
> [like in It. violoncello -> cello or
Evertjan.
May 20, 2012, 4:44:20 AM5/20/12
to
Lanarcam wrote on 20 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
> Le 19/05/2012 23:24, Evertjan. a �crit :
>> Lanarcam wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>
>>> Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a �crit :
>>>> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>>>
>>>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>>>
>>>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>>>
>>>> Heronshaw noun
>>>> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
>>>
>>> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
>>
>> By the pronounciation change
>> "-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
>> perhaps?
>
> Possible.
The change from "cel" to 's'l" is evident in "dams'l",
> Le 19/05/2012 23:24, Evertjan. a �crit :
>> Lanarcam wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>
>>> Le 19/05/2012 22:59, Evertjan. a �crit :
>>>> Sh.Mandrake wrote on 19 mei 2012 in sci.lang.translation:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 18/05/2012 18:35, Ramsman :
>>>>>> On 18/05/2012 14:36, Sh.Mandrake wrote:
>>>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It means that he can tell things apart and is not entirely insane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As usual, GIYF. Searching for "I know a hawk from a handsaw" gives
>>>>>> lots of hits, often saying that "handsaw" is a corruption of
>>>>>> "hernshaw", an old word for a heron.
>>>>
>>>> Hamlet in conversation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
>>>>
>>>>> Seems plausible to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems plausible to me too, since there is not much link between a
>>>>> hawk and a handsaw. Thank you for your answer.
>>>>
>>>> Heronshaw noun
>>>> [ Old French heroncel , dim. of h�ron . See Heron .]
>>>
>>> Have you an idea how "cel" became "shaw"?
>>
>> By the pronounciation change
>> "-nsehl" -> "-nsuhl" -> -nshuhl? => "nshuh"
>> perhaps?
>
> Possible.
[called a "shwa"], see the d�tressed one below.
<http://www.anglaide.com/Pronunciation/schwa.asp>
> When I saw hernshaw at first, I didn't thought about a heron.
> The pronounciation in French is far from that of hern.
the English one on the "e",
where the "o" tents to become a shwa.
>> The "cel" suffix probably was not understood anymore
>> as being a diminuative,
>> [like in It. violoncello -> cello or
>> 'demoiselle en d�tresse' -> 'damsel in distress'],
>> and so could more freely change as a meaningless suffix.
>>
>> Just conjecture, ofcource.
>>
>>
>>>> (Zoology) A heron.
>>>> [ Written variously hernshaw , harnsey , etc.]
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.encyclo.co.uk/webster/H/36>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.word-detective.com/2012/02/hawk-from-a-handsaw/>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Ramsman
May 20, 2012, 12:04:59 PM5/20/12
to
There is a tool called a hawk, use by plasterers and bricklayers to hold
wet plaster or mortar. See:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/marshalltown-plasterer-s-hawk-13-x-13/26910
I have a home-made one (a biscuit tin lid screwed to a short length of
broom handle), as well as seven or so types of handsaw. They can all be
easily distinguished.
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary says that 'hawk' is Late Middle
English, but the origin is unknown. That means that Shakespeare could
well have known the word in that sense, and perhaps that's what he
meant. That was what I first thought, before I knew about the heron
thing. I still think it's possible.
Yet another mystery where the Bard is concerned.
--
Peter
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 22, 2012, 7:10:28 AM5/22/12
to
handsaw you have to be crazy, but to confuse a falcon with a heron you
just need to be unusually ignorant about birds.
--
athel
Lanarcam
May 22, 2012, 7:35:32 AM5/22/12
to
On May 22, 1:10 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
keeping the
equivalent wording or you translate the meaning but you can't, or
rarely, do both.
I suspect that in this particular passage, the author was playing with
the
fact that handsaw has a double meaning in English, either a handheld
saw
or a hernshaw (a heron) which doesn't make sens in English.
> On 2012-05-18 18:02:12 +0200, Lanarcam <lanarc...@yahoo.fr> said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Le 18/05/2012 17:42, Thor Kottelin a crit :
> >> "Sh.Mandrake" <mandr...@xanax.doux> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > Le 18/05/2012 17:42, Thor Kottelin a crit :
> >>news:jp5qa4$on9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >>> Le 18/05/2012 17:16, Thor Kottelin a crit :
>
> >>>> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
> >>>> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
>
> >>> Interesting quotation, but what does it mean exactly??
>
> >> I read it as insanity vs. (at least a kind of) sanity.
>
> > It was translated by Victor Hugo, no less and it is
> > exactly as you say:
>
> > "HAMLET - Je ne suis fou que par le vent du nord-nord
> > ouest: quand le vent est au sud, je peux distinguer
> > un faucon d'un h ron."
>
> >http://www.pitbook.com/textes/pdf/hamlet.pdf
>
> OK, but the French seems a bit watered down. To confuse a hawk with a
> handsaw you have to be crazy, but to confuse a falcon with a heron you
> just need to be unusually ignorant about birds.
>
Poetry is difficult to translate, either you translate it literally,
> >>> Le 18/05/2012 17:16, Thor Kottelin a crit :
>
> >>>> "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk
> >>>> from a handsaw." - Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
>
> >>> Interesting quotation, but what does it mean exactly??
>
> >> I read it as insanity vs. (at least a kind of) sanity.
>
> > It was translated by Victor Hugo, no less and it is
> > exactly as you say:
>
> > "HAMLET - Je ne suis fou que par le vent du nord-nord
> > ouest: quand le vent est au sud, je peux distinguer
> > un faucon d'un h ron."
>
> >http://www.pitbook.com/textes/pdf/hamlet.pdf
>
> OK, but the French seems a bit watered down. To confuse a hawk with a
> handsaw you have to be crazy, but to confuse a falcon with a heron you
> just need to be unusually ignorant about birds.
>
keeping the
equivalent wording or you translate the meaning but you can't, or
rarely, do both.
I suspect that in this particular passage, the author was playing with
the
fact that handsaw has a double meaning in English, either a handheld
saw
or a hernshaw (a heron) which doesn't make sens in English.
Sh.Mandrake
May 22, 2012, 8:05:01 AM5/22/12
to
Le 22/05/2012 13:35, Lanarcam a écrit :
> I suspect that in this particular passage, the author was playing with
> the
> fact that handsaw has a double meaning in English, either a handheld
> saw
> or a hernshaw (a heron) which doesn't make sens in English.
Why shouldn't it make sens in English?
> I suspect that in this particular passage, the author was playing with
> the
> fact that handsaw has a double meaning in English, either a handheld
> saw
> or a hernshaw (a heron) which doesn't make sens in English.
Lanarcam
May 22, 2012, 8:35:11 AM5/22/12
to
Sh.Mandrake
May 23, 2012, 7:20:47 AM5/23/12
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 25, 2012, 4:13:26 AM5/25/12
to
existed, but not finding any support for this idea in the dictionary
(probably my search wasn't thorough enough) I decided that I was
probably mistaken, so I didn't mention it. I doubt whether Victor Hugo
came across the word hernshaw when he was in Jersey and Guernsey, but
he was probably sufficiently puzzled about the handsaw to ask
knowledgeable people about it.
The discussion at
http://everything2.com/title/To+know+a+hawk+from+a+handsaw mentions the
idea that "handshaw" was a misprint for "hernshaw", which is plausible
enough, but also offers another plausible interpretation, that although
"hawk" is best known as the name of a bird it was also once used as a
nam of a mason's tool.
--
athel
Ramsman
May 25, 2012, 5:08:40 AM5/25/12
to
here's what I said:
There is a link, but in a different context.
There is a tool called a hawk, use by plasterers and bricklayers to hold
wet plaster or mortar. See:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/marshalltown-plasterer-s-hawk-13-x-13/26910
I have a home-made one (a biscuit tin lid screwed to a short length of
broom handle), as well as seven or so types of handsaw. They can all be
easily distinguished.
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary says that 'hawk' is Late Middle
English, but the origin is unknown. That means that Shakespeare could
well have known the word in that sense, and perhaps that's what he
meant. That was what I first thought, before I knew about the heron
thing. I still think it's possible.
Yet another mystery where the Bard is concerned.
HTH
There is a link, but in a different context.
There is a tool called a hawk, use by plasterers and bricklayers to hold
wet plaster or mortar. See:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/marshalltown-plasterer-s-hawk-13-x-13/26910
I have a home-made one (a biscuit tin lid screwed to a short length of
broom handle), as well as seven or so types of handsaw. They can all be
easily distinguished.
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary says that 'hawk' is Late Middle
English, but the origin is unknown. That means that Shakespeare could
well have known the word in that sense, and perhaps that's what he
meant. That was what I first thought, before I knew about the heron
thing. I still think it's possible.
Yet another mystery where the Bard is concerned.
--
Peter
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 25, 2012, 8:07:10 AM5/25/12
to
you link to very persuasive.
> (to which nobody responded), here's what I said:
>
> There is a link, but in a different context.
>
> There is a tool called a hawk, use by plasterers and bricklayers to
> hold wet plaster or mortar. See:
> http://www.screwfix.com/p/marshalltown-plasterer-s-hawk-13-x-13/26910
>
> I have a home-made one (a biscuit tin lid screwed to a short length of
> broom handle), as well as seven or so types of handsaw. They can all be
> easily distinguished.
>
> The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary says that 'hawk' is Late Middle
> English, but the origin is unknown. That means that Shakespeare could
> well have known the word in that sense, and perhaps that's what he
> meant. That was what I first thought, before I knew about the heron
> thing. I still think it's possible.
>
> Yet another mystery where the Bard is concerned.
>
>
> HTH
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