German into Brazilian Portuguese?

joe

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Jun 21, 2009, 1:58:41 PM6/21/09

to

Could someone please translate the title of this German book 'Deutsche
Geschichte de j�ngsten Vergangenheit und Gegenwart' into Brazilian
Portuguese?

Cheers, Joe

Ekkehard Dengler

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Jun 23, 2009, 9:22:18 AM6/23/09

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I'm afraid I can't, but a European Portuguese translation would be "Hist�ria
alem� do passado (mais) recente at� � actualidade/ao presente". "De" should
be "der", by the way.

Regards,
Ekkehard

joe

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Jun 23, 2009, 6:50:04 PM6/23/09

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"Ekkehard Dengler" wrote:

> I'm afraid I can't, but a European Portuguese translation would be
> "Hist�ria
> alem� do passado (mais) recente at� � actualidade/ao presente". "De"
> should
> be "der", by the way.

Thank you for that Ekkehard

Joe

Gabe Bokor

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Jun 27, 2009, 12:46:46 PM6/27/09

to joe

The only difference in Brazilian Portuguese would be that the spelling
would be "atualidade" instead of "actualidade."

Gabe

--
Gabe Bokor
Poughkeepsie, NY, USA
http://accurapid.com
Translation Journal: http://translationjournal.net
or: http://accurapid.com/journal

Gabe Bokor

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Jun 27, 2009, 12:50:15 PM6/27/09

to joe

One more thing: I think "Hist�ria da Alemanha" (History of Germany)
would be a better translation of Deutsche Geschichte than the literal
translation "hist�ria alem�," and this probably in both European and
Brazilian Portuguese.

Gabe

Ekkehard Dengler

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Jun 27, 2009, 2:27:57 PM6/27/09

to

>> "Ekkehard Dengler" wrote:
>>
>>> I'm afraid I can't, but a European Portuguese translation would be
>>> "Hist�ria
>>> alem� do passado (mais) recente at� � actualidade/ao presente". "De"
>>> should
>>> be "der", by the way.

Gabe Bokor wrote:
> The only difference in Brazilian Portuguese would be that the spelling
> would be "atualidade" instead of "actualidade."

As far as I know, BP uses "at�" (=> "at� a actualidade/o presente") where EP
uses "at� a".

Regards,
Ekkehard

Ekkehard Dengler

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Jun 27, 2009, 2:32:21 PM6/27/09

to

Gabe Bokor wrote:
> One more thing: I think "Hist�ria da Alemanha" (History of Germany)
> would be a better translation of Deutsche Geschichte than the literal
> translation "hist�ria alem�," and this probably in both European and
> Brazilian Portuguese.

In EP, the two expressions are interchangeable.

Regards,
Ekkehard

Gabe Bokor

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Jun 27, 2009, 8:53:35 PM6/27/09

to Ekkehard Dengler

>
> Gabe Bokor wrote:
>> The only difference in Brazilian Portuguese would be that the spelling
>> would be "atualidade" instead of "actualidade."
>
> As far as I know, BP uses "at�" (=> "at� a actualidade/o presente") where EP
> uses "at� a".

BP uses "at�" both with and without the preposition "a."

Gabe

Ekkehard Dengler

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Jun 29, 2009, 3:22:02 AM6/29/09

to

Gabe Bokor wrote:
>> Gabe Bokor wrote:
>>> The only difference in Brazilian Portuguese would be that the
>>> spelling would be "atualidade" instead of "actualidade."
>>
>> As far as I know, BP uses "at�" (=> "at� a actualidade/o presente")
>> where EP uses "at� a".
>
> BP uses "at�" both with and without the preposition "a."

Please compare the following:

site:pt "at� ao presente" => 9,590 Google hits
site:pt "at� o presente" => 989 Google hits

site:br "at� ao presente" => 1,880 Google hits
site:br "at� o presente" => 283,000 Google hits

Regards,
Ekkehard

Gabe Bokor

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Jun 30, 2009, 11:43:59 AM6/30/09

to Ekkehard Dengler

That's not a lot of hits even with site:pt for "até ao presente," is it?
Not surprising, given the awkward pronunciation of "até ao." Compare this
with 191,000 hits for "até +à" site:br. True, you'll find 867,000 hits
for "até +à" site:pt, but I didn't dispute your statement that the use
of preposition after "até" is more common in Portugal than it is in
Brazil. I only said that in Brazil both forms are used.

Gabe

> Please compare the following:
>
> site:pt "até ao presente" => 9,590 Google hits
> site:pt "até o presente" => 989 Google hits
>
> site:br "até ao presente" => 1,880 Google hits
> site:br "até o presente" => 283,000 Google hits
>
> Regards,
> Ekkehard
>
>

Ekkehard Dengler

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Jun 30, 2009, 12:27:02 PM6/30/09

to

Gabe Bokor wrote:

>> Please compare the following:
>>
>> site:pt "at� ao presente" => 9,590 Google hits
>> site:pt "at� o presente" => 989 Google hits
>>
>> site:br "at� ao presente" => 1,880 Google hits
>> site:br "at� o presente" => 283,000 Google hits

> That's not a lot of hits even with site:pt for "at� ao presente," is
> it?

You do realise that Portugal has a population of about 10.5 million? Since
we're talking about relative frequencies, absolute numbers aren't really
relevant anyway.

>Not surprising, given the awkward pronunciation of "at� ao."

"At� ao" is definitely the more common form in European Portuguese. It's not
awkward to pronounce at all. The usual pronunciation of "ao" is [O] ("at� �
presente").

> Compare this with 191,000 hits for "at� +�" site:br.

Not all of which are relevant, though, for instance "Voltamos a ser os
perdul�rios de sempre, em rela��o at� � pr�pria vida". I suggest using
longer search strings and comparing the actual frequencies.

> True, you'll
> find 867,000 hits for "at� +�" site:pt, but I didn't dispute your
> statement that the use of preposition after "at�" is more common in

> Portugal than it is in Brazil. I only said that in Brazil both forms
> are used.

Both forms are considered correct, but "at� a" is *relatively* unusual:

283,000 : 1,880 = 151 ("at� o presente") : 1 ("at� ao presente")

Regards,
Ekkehard