Re: High-level grammar question
Ben Finney
> I have a question about a grammatical form that's been bothering me
> for a while, ~たまえ. From the contexts I have heard this used in I
> suspect it's some sort of old-fashioned command form, but does anyone
> know for sure?
Can you give a concrete example from a NSoJ, in context?
--
\ “We must find our way to a time when faith, without evidence, |
`\ disgraces anyone who would claim it.” —Sam Harris, _The End of |
_o__) Faith_, 2004 |
Ben Finney
Shimpei Yamashita
> Monica <remote...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have a question about a grammatical form that's been bothering me
>> for a while, ~たまえ. From the contexts I have heard this used in I
>> suspect it's some sort of old-fashioned command form, but does anyone
>> know for sure?
It comes from the classical Japaense 〜賜ふ or 〜給ふ, literally "to
grant (to someone of lower rank)." the same meaning still exists in
contemporary Japanese, but is rarely used outside of history books,
since the word can only be applied to royalty or high nobility.
In classical Japanese, the word was also used more widely to modify
other verbs to denote respect (e.g. 〜のりたまふ, to ride). This
usage, as a general construct, is mostly gone in contemporary spoken
Japanese, although you can still see remnants in e.g. うけたまわる（承
る）, which means "acknowledge" but with a respectful attitude.
Anyway, the imperative form of 〜たまふ is 〜たまへ, which is the
direct ancestor of the modern 〜たまえ. The Japanese language often
degrades respectful words into normal or derogatory words over time,
and this is no exception; 〜たまえ now denotes command toward "someone
of equal or lower rank, showing mild respect or intimacy" (source: Goo
dictionary).
Hope that helps.
Shimpei.
Bruce
wrote:
> Monica <remote.ze...@gmail.com> writes:
> > I have a question about a grammatical form that's been bothering me
> > for a while, ~たまえ. From the contexts I have heard this used in I
> > suspect it's some sort of old-fashioned command form, but does anyone
> > know for sure?
>
> Can you give a concrete example from a NSoJ, in context?
How about 主の祈り?
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%BB%E3%81%AE%E7%A5%88%E3%82%8A
プロテスタント訳（1880年） [編集]
下記の訳文は、プロテスタント系の讃美歌集の多くに掲載されている文語訳のもので、現在でも多く用いられている。
天にまします我らの父よ
願わくは
み名をあがめさせたまえ
み国を来たらせたまえ
み心の天に成る如く地にもなさせたまえ
我らの日用の糧を今日も与えたまえ
我らに罪を犯す者を我らが赦す如く我らの罪をも赦したまえ
我らを試みに遭わせず悪より救い出したまえ
国と力と栄えとは限りなく汝のものなればなり
アーメン
Ben Finney
> On Nov 10, 8:01 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:
> > Monica <remote.ze...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > I have a question about a grammatical form that's been bothering me
> > > for a while, ~たまえ.
[…]
> >
> > Can you give a concrete example from a NSoJ, in context?
>
> How about 主の祈り?
Yes, I'm sure many people here can give their *own* examples. I wanted
the original poster to give an example of what *they* are asking, so we
can see the context.
--
\ “I wrote a song, but I can't read music so I don't know what it |
`\ is. Every once in a while I'll be listening to the radio and I |
_o__) say, ‘I think I might have written that.’” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney
Bruce
> > On Nov 10, 8:01 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
> > wrote:
> > > Monica <remote.ze...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > I have a question about a grammatical form that's been bothering me
> > > > for a while, ~たまえ.
> […]
>
> > > Can you give a concrete example from a NSoJ, in context?
>
> > How about 主の祈り?
>
> Yes, I'm sure many people here can give their *own* examples. I wanted
> the original poster to give an example of what *they* are asking, so we
> can see the context.
I have another example.
君！ 男なら正々堂々と闘いたまえ！ = Fight like a man!
かっこいー！ I wish I could say that.