garmin rebate

[mi...@sushi.com]

Just an FYI, the Garmin $50 rebates require a purchase by the end of
the year.

I toyed with the idea of upgrading my old emap to a 60csx, but the 1D
compass bothers me since I know there is better gear out there, such as
the 3D used by Magellan.

[Chris Malcolm]

Yes, but to what accuracy can that 3D compass be calibrated?

--
Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[Jack Yeazel]

Chris Malcolm wrote:
>
> mi...@sushi.com wrote:
> > Just an FYI, the Garmin $50 rebates require a purchase by the end of
> > the year.
>
> > I toyed with the idea of upgrading my old emap to a 60csx, but the 1D
> > compass bothers me since I know there is better gear out there, such as
> > the 3D used by Magellan.
>
> Yes, but to what accuracy can that 3D compass be calibrated?

Our tests show it to be about as accurate as Garmin's 2D,
and a lot easier to use, because you can get a compass
reading (to a GOTO, say) with the unit held in the position
for best reception...
--
Jack

Get general GPS information at:
http://www.gpsinformation.net/

[mi...@sushi.com]

Here is my issue. When you hike steep or rugged terrain, i.e. a path
where you can't make decent forward progress, a virtual compass is
pretty worthless since the differential readings (perhaps sequential
is a better word) are not far enough apart. I'd like the compass not
to be fussy. It really wouldn't have to be all the accurate for hiking,
but I've seen the Garmin compass in action on older models and it just
won't do.

[Jack Erbes]

mi...@sushi.com wrote:

Magellan has a compass that gives both bearing and look angle? Or are
you talking about the 3D view you could get on a PC with the Topo 3D
software? Here is a good review of Topo 3D:

http://www.gpsinformation.net/waas/Mag3-D/Mag-Contours.html

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

[peter]

Jack Erbes wrote:
> mi...@sushi.com wrote:
>
> > Just an FYI, the Garmin $50 rebates require a purchase by the end of
> > the year.
> >
> > I toyed with the idea of upgrading my old emap to a 60csx, but the 1D
> > compass bothers me since I know there is better gear out there, such as
> > the 3D used by Magellan.
>
> Magellan has a compass that gives both bearing and look angle?

No, but the magnetic sensor used in some of the Magellan models doesn't
require the unit to be held level the way the Garmin ones do. Kind of
like the difference between a flat plate hiking compass (which must be
held level) and a pivoting marine compass (which doesn't).

[Dale DePriest]

mi...@sushi.com wrote:

> Here is my issue. When you hike steep or rugged terrain, i.e. a path
> where you can't make decent forward progress, a virtual compass is
> pretty worthless since the differential readings (perhaps sequential
> is a better word) are not far enough apart. I'd like the compass not
> to be fussy. It really wouldn't have to be all the accurate for hiking,
> but I've seen the Garmin compass in action on older models and it just
> won't do.

while your concerned is well founded it is not based on how the GPS
actually computes direction. It is not done with sequential readings but
is computed from the Doppler shift from the satellite data. Only one
reading is needed but there has to be a velocity component that is not
zero or nearly zero.

Dale

>
>> Get general GPS information at:
>> http://www.gpsinformation.net/
>

--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

[mi...@sushi.com]

Dale DePriest wrote:
> mi...@sushi.com wrote:
>
> > Here is my issue. When you hike steep or rugged terrain, i.e. a path
> > where you can't make decent forward progress, a virtual compass is
> > pretty worthless since the differential readings (perhaps sequential
> > is a better word) are not far enough apart. I'd like the compass not
> > to be fussy. It really wouldn't have to be all the accurate for hiking,
> > but I've seen the Garmin compass in action on older models and it just
> > won't do.
>
> while your concerned is well founded it is not based on how the GPS
> actually computes direction. It is not done with sequential readings but
> is computed from the Doppler shift from the satellite data. Only one
> reading is needed but there has to be a velocity component that is not
> zero or nearly zero.
>
> Dale
>
> >
> >> Get general GPS information at:
> >> http://www.gpsinformation.net/

Your website doesn't seem to agree with you:

http://www.gpsinformation.net/main/gpsbearing.htm
"The GPS computes it's bearing to the next waypoint based on knowing
the coordinates of the target AND the GPS receiver's current location.
(Assuming the target is a km or more away, the bearing will normally
be very accurate indeed. This is true if or not the GPS is in motion or
at rest.) HOWEVER, the GPS computes it's DIRECTION OF TRAVEL (as
opposed to bearing to the next waypoint) by computing its position at
approximately 1 second intervals and calculating DIRECTION OF
MOVEMENT."

[Dale DePriest]

Guess I'll have to have a talk with Joe :-)

Dale

[Jack Erbes]

peter wrote:

<snip>

>>Magellan has a compass that gives both bearing and look angle?
>
>
> No, but the magnetic sensor used in some of the Magellan models doesn't
> require the unit to be held level the way the Garmin ones do. Kind of
> like the difference between a flat plate hiking compass (which must be
> held level) and a pivoting marine compass (which doesn't).
>

Thanks, Peter.

I still don't "get" the fascination with having a GPS with a built in
magnetic compass. Most of them seem to be labor intensive or sort of
troublesome in use.

If you need a compass you should have one with you. I always have a
good magnetic compass around on boats. And I usually carry a magnetic
compass (a companion to my paper topo maps) if I'm doing anything in the
woods where there is a need for more serious navigation. I'm just not
comfortable with putting all my eggs in one basket by having the GPS and
compass combined.

I'm starting to visualize a new generation of hikers that won't have a
clue about how to find their way back out of the woods if their GPSr
quits working.

[mi...@sushi.com]

If you are trying to follow a route or trail and moving slowly, the
heading indicated by the GPS will fluctuate. This is because the
virtual compass in a GPS is based on differential readings of your
sequantial location. When you are moving slowly, the location is not
changing quickly, and the difference gives a poor indication of your
heading. A compass would help IF it is integrated in the tracking
(traceback) subroutine.

When you are moving at even a moderate pace, this isn't much of an
issue. However, try to follow a trail on steep terrain and the GPS
guidance becomes somewhat useless. What I do under these conditions is
to have a route planned out and then measure the distance to the route
waypoint. While the heading reading is jumping around, at least you
can see if you are closing in on the waypoint.

[Jack Yeazel]

Jack Erbes wrote:
>
> If you need a compass you should have one with you. I always have a
> good magnetic compass around on boats. And I usually carry a magnetic
> compass (a companion to my paper topo maps) if I'm doing anything in the
> woods where there is a need for more serious navigation. I'm just not
> comfortable with putting all my eggs in one basket by having the GPS and
> compass combined.

The (basic) function of a GPS compass is not to find out
which way north is (although it does do that) but to find
out which way it is to a waypoint or routepoint while
standing still...

The Magellans have a nice additional function on their
compasses,
called COG (Course Over Ground) Pointer and Icon...

This pointer, not available in the Garmin units, is quite
useful... When using the Compass Screen to steer to a
destination, the goal is to align the destination Pointer
and the COG Pointer together...

When both of these pointers are lined up, regardless of your
heading, you are moving in a straight line to your
destination. This is a welcome feature for sailing
enthusiasts...
--
Jack

[Jack Erbes]

Jack Yeazel wrote:

<snip>

> The Magellans have a nice additional function on their
> compasses,
> called COG (Course Over Ground) Pointer and Icon...
>
> This pointer, not available in the Garmin units, is quite
> useful... When using the Compass Screen to steer to a
> destination, the goal is to align the destination Pointer
> and the COG Pointer together...
>
> When both of these pointers are lined up, regardless of your
> heading, you are moving in a straight line to your
> destination. This is a welcome feature for sailing
> enthusiasts...

And that is one of the pages that I still miss having when I use the
76Cx on boats. Their implementation of the "Highway" is pretty lame for
marine use.

I wish Garmin would pay more attention to the things that people use and
like on the other brands and models. Like the Card Utilities menu on
the Magellans...

The Garmin software development department seems to be severely
constrained by the "Not Invented Here is Not Good" syndrome.

[Dan Anderson]

Jack Erbes wrote:
[snip]

> I wish Garmin would pay more attention to the things that people use and
> like on the other brands and models. Like the Card Utilities menu on
> the Magellans...

I'll second that!

> The Garmin software development department seems to be severely
> constrained by the "Not Invented Here is Not Good" syndrome.

In some cases the entity that invented something holds a
patent so that others can't do it that way.

In other cases...
The Garmin 12XL gave you "495 Used" "5 Empty" for the waypoint
storage area. They replaced that with a useless total memory
indicator - no way to know how much memory is left for
waypoints. Fortunately they kept the memory used for the
track log although they went from an exact "863/1024" to
a percentage that is approximate.

--
Dan
(email change 2001 to 2004)
(www.gpsmap.net)

[Mike Coon]

Jack Yeazel wrote:
> When both of these pointers are lined up, regardless of your
> heading, you are moving in a straight line to your
> destination. This is a welcome feature for sailing
> enthusiasts...

So long, of course, that they are not going to compensate an offset on one
tide with an opposite set on the next, in which case a rather wiggly line
may be the "best" route...

Mike (who likes to sail in tideless waters!).
--
If reply address = connectfee, add an r because it is free not fee.

[Jack Yeazel]

Jack Erbes wrote:
>
> Jack Yeazel wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > The Magellans have a nice additional function on their
> > compasses,
> > called COG (Course Over Ground) Pointer and Icon...
> >
> > This pointer, not available in the Garmin units, is quite
> > useful... When using the Compass Screen to steer to a
> > destination, the goal is to align the destination Pointer
> > and the COG Pointer together...
> >
> > When both of these pointers are lined up, regardless of your
> > heading, you are moving in a straight line to your
> > destination. This is a welcome feature for sailing
> > enthusiasts...
>
> And that is one of the pages that I still miss having when I use the
> 76Cx on boats. Their implementation of the "Highway" is pretty lame for
> marine use.
>
> I wish Garmin would pay more attention to the things that people use and
> like on the other brands and models. Like the Card Utilities menu on
> the Magellans...
>
> The Garmin software development department seems to be severely
> constrained by the "Not Invented Here is Not Good" syndrome.

Garmin has been pretty good at 'innovating' ahead of the
'pack' in the past, but yes, including things like COG and
3-D compasses surely isn't a paten problem, but might be...

What puzzles Joe and I most is that Garmin's 'Business
Model' seems to be absolutely against putting all their nice
features in one unit!

JY

[Charlie Sorsby]

In article <HPSdnbB1GoDZ3gTY...@adelphia.com>,
Jack Erbes <jack...@adelphia.net> wrote:
= peter wrote:
=
= <snip>
= >>Magellan has a compass that gives both bearing and look angle?
= >
= >
= > No, but the magnetic sensor used in some of the Magellan models doesn't
= > require the unit to be held level the way the Garmin ones do. Kind of
= > like the difference between a flat plate hiking compass (which must be
= > held level) and a pivoting marine compass (which doesn't).
= >
=
= Thanks, Peter.
=
= I still don't "get" the fascination with having a GPS with a built in
= magnetic compass. Most of them seem to be labor intensive or sort of
= troublesome in use.

Same here! Not the least of that troublesomeness is that the GPSr
must be on and in hand. I suppose that that's OK if the objective
of being where you are is to play with the GPSr but if it's to do
something else, I would find that to be extremely annoying.

= If you need a compass you should have one with you.

Exactly. How hard is it to hang a compass round your neck to use
when needed? Certainly easier than carrying the GPSr in hand and
diddling with all the buttons. Personally, I think it's the "new
toy syndrome."

I take my GPSr out of the case to take a fix and store a waypoint
at the location I want to return to and to use goto either to
return to that point or to go to some other known point.

Once goto tells me which way to go, I turn off the GPSr, put it
back into its' case, and use my compass. Even that is only in my
hand briefly while I sight on some distant object if possible.
Then I head towards that object. If, during my movement towards
that object, I find that I want to explore an area (or more likely
I make game and want to resume hunting), no big deal. I just do so.
When I've finished, I do another goto, take another sight with the
compass, and resume.

I guess that, in a sense, I don't get all the use out of my GPSr
that I could do -- but it does the job I got it for: making it
easier to go directly to a point.

= I always have a
= good magnetic compass around on boats. And I usually carry a magnetic
= compass (a companion to my paper topo maps) if I'm doing anything in the
= woods where there is a need for more serious navigation. I'm just not
= comfortable with putting all my eggs in one basket by having the GPS and
= compass combined.

Amen!

= I'm starting to visualize a new generation of hikers that won't have a
= clue about how to find their way back out of the woods if their GPSr
= quits working.

--
Charlie Sorsby
c...@swcp.com
Edgewood, NM 87015
USA