A portable GPS should use standard mini-USB power (but which ones do)?
sarah bennett
Does the Garmin Nuvi 350/360 use mini-USB to power & charge the batteries?
I am finally going to buy a portable GPS for utomobile & walking but I will
only buy portable electronics (camera, phone, gps, etc.) that uses standard
mini-USB to power and recharge the unit.
Why? Because that is better for the earth and for you and me. I can keep a
single USB charger in each vehicle. I can bring a single charger on
vacation. And in emergencies, I can recharge from the PC using a single
standard USB-to-miniUSB cable. In short, I'll never buy another portable
electronic unit which isn't mini-USB powered.
Having said that, I read the entire Consumer Reports article on portable
GPS navigation systems, and it doesn't say anywhere if the units use
standard mini-USB supplies to power the unit & charge the batteries.
Since the top-rated unit for Consumer Reports was the Garmin Nuvi 350/360,
may I ask you experts if the mini-USB connector is used for powering the
unit and recharging the batteries or just for data. If it's just for data,
that makes this GPS unit useless for portable applications.
What GPS units are powered and recharge their batteries using mini USB?
Andrew
<anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>What GPS units are powered and recharge their batteries using mini USB?
My Mio A701 does.
--
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Robert Peffers.
"Andrew" <spam...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:6qlm5398n0gjp7sst...@4ax.com...
were fitted to and were stand alone while in use.
--
Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Pieter
old USB port connector?? I have a Magellan Explorist 600 which is equipped
with a rechargable battery and can be charged via its USB connector. It
does have a downside - if I go on extended camping trips, a single battery
can't last the whole time, so I have two rechargable batteries. Now there
is an aftermarket holder for AAA batteries for those occasions where you
need a bit of extra time, but don't want to pay the big $$ for a second
rechargable battery. In addition, I don't think there is a dedicated
photovoltaic panel and connector available to recharge it, but it is
probably possible. It would just have to be the right voltage and plug in
to the connector for the "wall wart" transfomer/charger on the USB cable.
As a "cheap shot" let me point out that if you really want to be kind to the
environment, learn to use a map and compass and avoid using electricity at
all. I've used one compass and a single set of paper maps for the last
twenty years, and I bet the entire "system environmental cost" of that form
of navigation is less than a set of AAA batteries....or a whole GPS!
"sarah bennett" <anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:122501znuvawd$.18rtrqoxczkmc$.dlg@40tude.net...
sarah bennett
>>What GPS units are powered and recharge their batteries using mini USB?
>
> My Mio A701 does.
Hi there Andrew,
When I searched www.consumerreports.com for the "Mio A701", it returned
--> No results found
--> Your search for Mio A701 did not match any documents.
Googling, I see it's a phone + GPS rolled up in one. Now I see that it
makes sense since almost nobody buys a telephone anymore that doesn't use
the miniUSB charger. The rest are worthless.
So, you made a good choice in telephones but I'm looking for a portable GPS
unit for my car and for my pocket. I'll keep searching for a portable GPS
which uses miniUSB which all of us should insist on for all our pocket
electronics.
I see that the Garmin Nuvi 350 & Nuvi 360 has a mini USB connector but I
can't tell if it's just a data port or a bona fide mini USB charger
connection. Do you know?
sarah
sarah bennett
> I thought the whole idea was for them to be powered from the vehicle they
> were fitted to and were stand alone while in use.
Hi there Robert,
You are correct. In my vehicle and that of my friends, we simply keep a
single 12volt mini USB plug in adapter. This powers our telephone, our
earbud, our mp3 player, and even our pocket camera. Most people nowadays
won't buy ANY portable electronics that isn't powered by this single
standard mini USB power supply.
When we go on a vacation or a trip, we take a single 120/220 volt mini-USB
charger for the same reasons. In a pinch, we don't even need the electrical
chargers because a single USB to mini USB computer cable will charge all
our devices!
This is good for the environment because there is tremendously less waste.
This is good for your pocket because electronics will cost less now that
they don't need to supply a charger with every unit.
This is good for your bags because you don't have to bring a separate
charger for your phone, earbud, camera, mp3 player, and GPS unit.
This is good for the unit because if you lose or break the power supply,
you can pick one up at the very next drugstore. That's what standards are
all about. Green.
Having said that, I can't find in Garmin Nuvi 350 and Nuvi 360 reviews
whether the mini USB port is simply a data port or if it doubles as a
charger and power connector. If not, the unit is useless. If so, I'll buy
it.
Does anyone know if the Garmin Nuvi 350 or Nuvi 360 are powered by the mini
USB port?
sarah
sarah bennett
> As a "cheap shot" let me point out that if you really want to be kind to the
> environment, learn to use a map and compass
Hi there Pieter,
Does a (magnetic) compass work inside a (steel) automobile?
sarah
sarah bennett
> with a rechargable battery and can be charged via its USB connector.
Hi there Pieter,
USB is both an electrical standard and a set of connector standards.
There are at least three USB connectors I'm familiar with
1. Type A USB Connector (always faces upstream, spec in USB 1.0)
The "rectangular" USB "blade" that goes in the side of your PC
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/directron/Final-USB-A.jpg
2. Type B USB Connector (always faces downstream, spec in USB 1.0)
The mostly "square" USB "plug" that goes in the back of a USB printer
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/directron/Final-USB-B.jpg
3. Type "mini B" USB Connector (spec came only with USB 2.0)
The mostly "triangular" mini-USB "jack" that goes into a GPS unit
http://www.panintl.com/img/Mini-5pin.gif
Nowadays, all portable electronics should all use the new mini B USB
connector. Any other portable connector is literally a waste. A waste of
our money. A waste to the environment. A waste to reuse. A waste for
repair. A waste for efficiency. A waste for packing.
Having said that, the question becomes which are the "greenest" of the GPS
units which take the environment and your pocketbook into account?
Do enlightened GPS experts know if the Garmin Nuvi 350 or Nuvi 360 GPS
units charge the batteries from the mini B usb connection? If not, what
other portable GPS unit does?
sarah
Pieter
I believe the original post said something about "I am finally going to buy
a portable GPS for utomobile & walking ", and a map and compass (or road
signs) could suffice for both -IF one had that degree of concern for the
environment. Now my GMC pickup has a nice electronic compass built into the
mirror and since it draws power from the cars system, it has no
"environmental cost" for battery power.
"sarah bennett" <anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1m4whz4x8e5h0.9...@40tude.net...
Robert Peffers.
"Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
news:465b62be$0$16693$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
stand alone unit? Would you not then need something like a computer with a
USB port to charge the GPS up and lug it around with you? Kind of defeats
the idea of stand alone portable GPS.
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> Where can we find a list of which GPS units use standard mini-USB power?
> Does the Garmin Nuvi 350/360 use mini-USB to power & charge the batteries?
www.garmin.com has downloadable user guides for all of their units.
The Nuvi 350 can be charged via the USB connector.
My discontinued 60cs does not charge via USB, although it has a USB connector.
The current 60csx does charge from USB.
I don't know of a list, but http://gpsinformation.net might have one.
I consider the USB charge from laptop the primary charge for my devices
that will do it. Most will connect to the laptop for data transfer, so
charging there makes sense. The laptop itself has plenty of battery for
the task. The cable is always in my laptop bag.
The single USB-120v or 12v for multiple gadgets is a good thing. Sometimes
the unique charger isn't available when you need it.
Ranting about how anything else is useless seems an odd environmental tack,
though. Do you throw away your cell phone every two years to keep up with
advancements like USB charge ports?
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Robert Peffers.
everyday vehicle. My main hobbies all involve electronics. Still
photography, videography, (large semi-pro camcorder and two smaller ones),
video editing, computers, music and short wave radio. These all go with me
in the motor home. I also have an analogue TV, a DVD/CD player and a digital
TV tuner. Not to mention the usual mobile phone but no i-pod, (I use a
mini-disk unit instead). Now the point of all this is that all these units
need powered when I am away from home. Yet I have not one USB charger among
the whole lot. Instead I have a small settable mains voltage power supply
and a tiny case of power adapters. These work also with the 12 volt power
supply from the vehicle. Now, into the bargain, I broke my back years ago
and am often forced to use an electric mobility scooter. All the above are
able to be powered from the vehicle's 12 volt system. I do also have a small
inverter fitted under the passenger seat but need it very seldom. Oh! And I
have never had a flat battery on the equipment nor on the vehicle. I have
though, had several failed USB connectors.
karel
> Does a (magnetic) compass work inside a (steel) automobile?
Can't be sure about cars, but they have been known to work in aircraft.
And don't come and tell me these are aluminium: every plane contains
a fair amount of iron/steel, in the engine(s) at least.
KA
sarah bennett
> Yet I have not one USB charger among the whole lot.
> Instead I have a small settable mains voltage power supply
> and a tiny case of power adapters. All the above are
> able to be powered from the vehicle's 12 volt system.
Hi there Robert,
This is great! You have accomplished what I want to accomplish. A single
"universal" charger for all my portable electronics equipment. There's no
downside to it. It's good for us in all the ways that I can think of.
For you, it's the voltage regulator plus adapters.
For me, it's mini B USB power.
We both accomplish the same task. Now, for me, the question is to find a
portable GPS unit that charges via the mini B USB power supply. In my
email, I was told the Nuvi 350 does NOT charge via the USB "data" port. But
here someone said it did. So I'm still a bit confused.
I wonder if there is a web site which references what the power supply is
for portable GPS units???
sarah
sarah bennett
> a map and compass (or road signs) could suffice
> IF one had that degree of concern for the environment.
To be honest, I'm more concerned with getting a good CONVENIENT and
RELIABLE GPS unit than the environment, although I do strongly feel that if
electronics didn't need to come with a charger (because we'd be chock full
of them since they'd all be the same), not only would everything be thirty
dollars cheaper, but the environment would benefit from tens of millions of
chargers that wouldn't have to be manufactured every year because we
wouldn't neeed any more.
Having said that, always have a charger and a USB cable as a backup gives
us convenience and reliability that proprietary chargers can never match.
Now the trick is to find a web site that agrees with me enough for them to
show what charger is actually used by the portable GPS units!
sarah
sarah bennett
>>> What GPS units are powered and recharge their batteries using mini USB?
> I'm still wondering why a USB charger is of use for a portable GPS that is a
> stand alone unit?
Hi there Robert,
USB is not just for computers. Think of it as a "universal power adapter".
It happens to conform the the power supply requirements for USB, but
there's no "data" in a power adapter.
With a "universal power adapter" (ie the USB B power supply), you can
charge your telephone, your earbud, your mp3 player, your camera, and your
GPS ........ all from the same "universal power supply".
This is so very important for portable electronics that I'm shocked that
the GPS review web sites don't make it one of the number one criterias
(after performance metrics, of course).
Is there a web site that explains which power adapter is used by the
various GPS units under test?
sarah
sarah bennett
> Ranting about how anything else is useless seems an odd environmental tack,
> though. Do you throw away your cell phone every two years to keep up with
> advancements like USB charge ports?
Hi there dold,
Yes. This is a good point.
I may have come on too strong on the environment. I would NOT throw an
outdated portable GPS away just because it used outdated proprietary power
supplies.
But, I would only consider a modern power supply for any NEW portable
electronics.
And today, the ONLY modern power supply that is universally available is
the USB 2.0 mini B standard.
If I were rating GPS units, for example, out of 100 points, I would make at
least 10 points the power supply being USB (zero if it's not USB), it's
that important to have a modern power supply.
Now, the question is which web site has modernized it's GPS testing to rate
this one critical requirement for all portable electronics?
sarah
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> here someone said it did. So I'm still a bit confused.
http://www.tvnav.com/nuvi350.htm Darrel would probably be able to answer
questions about any of the Garmin units.
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> RELIABLE GPS unit than the environment, although I do strongly feel that if
> electronics didn't need to come with a charger (because we'd be chock full
> of them since they'd all be the same), not only would everything be thirty
> dollars cheaper, but the environment would benefit from tens of millions of
> chargers that wouldn't have to be manufactured every year because we
> wouldn't neeed any more.
I think it's odd that the devices that use the standard mini-usb cable seem
to come with them, like my Sony Mini-Disc, my camera, and the Garmin, but
devices that use oddball connectors, like my Motorola V551 cell phone,
don't. I have a pile of the "standard" cables, but not all of them charge,
only some of them have those wires.
Andrew
>I thought the whole idea was for them to be powered from the vehicle they
>were fitted to and were stand alone while in use.
But carrying my car with me when walking would be somewhat of an
inconvenience. It is a lot easier to use a USB battery powered
charger.
Andrew
<anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>So, you made a good choice in telephones but I'm looking for a portable GPS
>unit for my car and for my pocket. I'll keep searching for a portable GPS
>which uses miniUSB which all of us should insist on for all our pocket
>electronics.
My A701 does all that, Tomtom for driving, Anquet for walking off
road, and Beeline for Geocaching, plus I can connect to the net
anytime I like with it.
pcmob...@yahoo.com
> As a "cheap shot" let me point out that if you really want to be kind to the
> environment, learn to use a map and compass and avoid using electricity at
> all. I've used one compass and a single set of paper maps for the last
> twenty years, and I bet the entire "system environmental cost" of that form
> of navigation is less than a set of AAA batteries....or a whole GPS!
>
Well said.
Having all your devices able to be charged with one single piece of
charger you take is OK for convenience sake.
For sake of environment? Nonsense!!
You still get one piece of charger for every device you bought. Where
do you put them?
I cannot imagine any device without any supply of a charger!
Ron Hunter
connector, and will recharge the batteries. I plug it into my laptop,
and it will recharge the batteries, and also provide a connection to the
laptop mapping software.
Ron Hunter
Why does it have to be mini-USB? The eXplorist 400-600 units have a
cord that connects to a standard USB port and will recharge the battery.
An adaptor would connect it to a mini-USB charger, or power source. A
good place to look for these accessories would be iPod accessory providers.
Ron Hunter
The answer is yes, it will recharge from the computer.
Ron Hunter
Yes, but not well.
Ron Hunter
They do, as do the Magellan 400-600 eXplorist units, to my knowledge.
Ron Hunter
When one is near a source of power, the USB port is rather ubiquitous,
and provides a handy source of power at low voltage and up to 500
milliamps of current.
This means I can connect my GPS to my laptop and both use it as an imput
to my mapping software, and to power the GPS. Handy!
Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter
According to Google, the Nuvi 350 quick reference, it DOES.
Ron Hunter
My wife and I both have Motorola RAZR phones, and the Bluetooth
headsets. Each unit came with the same type of recharger, so we have 4
of them, and a 'car cord'. When we travel, we take two along, and the
'car cord' of course. Seems to me if they sold the units without the
charger, it would make better sense, and if they could be charged from
my laptop/desktop USB connections, I could dispense with chargers
completely, but there is no option to not get the additional chargers.
I suspect it is cheaper from the manufacturer's point of view to include
the charger (VERY cheap) rather than to maintain two different packages.
Ron Hunter
useful to me, at least, as I rarely travel without my laptop, or away
from a computer.
Jack Erbes
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:16:14 -0400, Pieter wrote:
>> As a "cheap shot" let me point out that if you really want to be kind to the
>> environment, learn to use a map and compass
>
>
> Does a (magnetic) compass work inside a (steel) automobile?
>
> sarah
If you are in the driver's seat and hold a handheld compass in your
right hand, sort of in the open space to your right, you may see a
fairly accurate display on the compass. But if you start moving the
compass nearer to the metal sides of the car or the metal, electrics,
and electronics in the dash area, the readings will change as the flux
fields around the compass are affected.
A compass in a car, boat, plane, ship, etc., is normally installed with
regard to the possible affects of nearby metal and electric fields.
Then it is calibrated to that location.
If you have a compass, stand outside your car (a few yards away) and
spot North. Then get in the car, with engine running and normal
electrics and electronics on, and see what the difference is. If you
can find a place to hold the compass where you can get the same North
reading, you have just calibrated your compass to the environment in the
car.
Do the same thing on the four cardinal headings and if the headings stay
consistently accurate, your compass will work in the car.
If your car happened to be parked over a large mass of metal (iron ore
in the ground for example) this might change as you move on.
One thing I like about using the GPS heading you get with a walking
speed movement or faster, is that it is calculated from the geometry of
your location and the satellites and is consistent and accurate.
Jack
Jack Erbes
<snip>
> USB is not just for computers. Think of it as a "universal power adapter".
> It happens to conform the the power supply requirements for USB, but
> there's no "data" in a power adapter.
>
> With a "universal power adapter" (ie the USB B power supply), you can
> charge your telephone, your earbud, your mp3 player, your camera, and your
> GPS ........ all from the same "universal power supply".
>
> This is so very important for portable electronics that I'm shocked that
> the GPS review web sites don't make it one of the number one criterias
> (after performance metrics, of course).
>
> Is there a web site that explains which power adapter is used by the
> various GPS units under test?
Sarah,
You're bordering on becoming a "zealot" for mini-USB as a charging
source without a complete understanding of it all. And I don't say that
with harsh intents or as an insult.
Mini-USB (and USB) are intended to provide up to a 500 mA power source
for devices. That they will charge some devices is purely incidental.
Their strong point is that, in most devices, they send a signal to the
device that the battery need not be used because 5V power is available
and that lets a smart device use that for power instead of depleting the
internal battery.
Another factor is the battery voltage of the device and the electronics
in the device. If the device has a 3.7V battery and the right
electronics, it is practical to use the USB's 5V source to charge the
battery. The device would have to regulate the charging voltage and
current down to levels that will charge the battery.
If the device has a 5V (or higher) battery, or if the size of the
battery requires a charging current of more than 500 mA, the USB port is
not a good choice for a charging source. And if you have a 5V device
that has too large a battery and demands too high a charging voltage and
current rate, you are threatening the electronics in the USB port,
especially if it is in a computer.
There is a complex interplay of battery voltage, battery capacity, and
charging voltages and rates that need to be considered before a USB or
Mini-USB port can bee considered for use as you describe.
Jack
Mr Physics
are the same. The charger for my Motorola Razr will not charge either my
wife's Blackberry or my GPSMap60cx. 5V power and a common connector do
not a standard make, unfortunately. As far as I can tell, the best that
can be said about this is that mixing and matching chargers will
probably not harm charger or device. I seem to remember reading that
this is a result of certain pins other than +5V and GND on the USB link
being held, high, low, or left to float to tell the device that it
should be in charge mode. Sometimes engineers are too smart for our own
good.
Greg
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> My wife and I both have Motorola RAZR phones, and the Bluetooth
> and if they could be charged from my laptop/desktop USB connections.
My Motorola V3xx charges from the PC-USB cord that came with my Garmin
GPS, but some cords don't supply charging voltage.
sarah bennett
> http://www.tvnav.com/nuvi350.htm Darrel would probably be able to answer
> questions about any of the Garmin units.
Hi there dold,
I fear the worst.
Looking at the URL you kindly provided, I see the separate listing for
# AC Charger
# USB interface cable
If they are not one and the same, then this otherwise lovely Nuvi350 /
Nuvi360 portable GPS unit uses an outdated power source. The failure to
update their unit to modern specifications makes it nearly useless to me
and many others who care to carry only one AC charger for all their
portable electronics needs. Sigh. And it was such a good unit otherwise.
But I'd better check before I throw the Nuvi 360 off my consideration list.
I don't know who "Darryl" is, but I suspect he's the person I'll speak to
when I call the number on the referred web site.
Since it's not looking good ... what's the nearest equivalent to the Nuvi
360 (with bluetooth) from Garmin that DOES use a modern power supply?
sarah
sarah bennett
> Why does it have to be mini-USB? The eXplorist 400-600 units have a
> cord that connects to a standard USB port and will recharge the battery.
Hi there Ron,
The reason is that AC power supplies for mini USB, 12 volt auto adapters
for mini USB, and PC USB A to USB mini B cables are a dime a dozen
nowadays. We always carry all three on all trips to charge our other
portable electronic units (cellphones, earbuds, mp3 players, cameras, etc).
I suspect your eXplorist is actually not what you think it is.
Are you sure BOTH ends of the eXplorist 400-600 units are USB A? I doubt
it. I suspect ONE end of the eXplorist power supply cord is USB A and the
other end of the eXplorist power cable is USB mini-B.
Can you check your eXplorist to see if it really has a large rectangular
half-inch wide USB A female or if it uses the standard 5 mm wide USB mini B
connection?
sarah
sarah bennett
> I think it's odd that the devices that use the standard mini-usb cable seem
> to come with them, like my Sony Mini-Disc, my camera, and the Garmin, but
> devices that use oddball connectors, like my Motorola V551 cell phone,
> don't.
Hi there dold,
I agree that seems backwards. I have so many of the modern mini-USB PC
cables, AC chargers, and DC adapters that I never need to purchase one
outright. As you said, AC + DC + PC cables & adapters come with the modern
units I bought.
I have so many that I keep a complete mini-USB AC + DC + PC cable set in my
car, another at work, another in my packed bags (I travel a lot), and yet
another set in my purse for day trips. I am never at a loss for power
whenever a unit runs down!
Having said that, I have so many modern mini-USB cables and adapters that I
keep them in my cable drawer (along with dozens of the old defunct
proprietary cables and chargers and adapters that used to power portable
units).
If I were to hazard a guess as to why the older-style portable electronics
doesn't always come with the necessary three AC + DC + PC cables &
adapters, I'd guess it's because they're fleecing you on the retail market
for those outdated power supplies. If anything thinks otherwise, please let
us know the reason!
sarah
Dale DePriest
The reason that this is true is that the standard for USB is very
limited in the power it can supply. A USB connector is only guaranteed
to be able to supply 100 mA and generally cannot supply over 500 mA.
Many GPS devices need more than this and if unchecked they might break
the hardware in your computer. That is the downside of using USB style
connectors for charging or powering tasks. USB was never designed for a
charging task but people like to use if for this so the designers have
come up with all kinds of techniques to detect is a real computer is
hooked up so that they can reduce current requirements of the device to
avoid destroying your computer. This is why a connector and 5V don't a
standard make. The engineers are not out to get you, they are trying to
protect you or your computer.
Dale
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
sarah bennett
> Seems to me if they sold the units without the
> charger, it would make better sense, and if they could be charged from
> my laptop/desktop USB connections, I could dispense with chargers
> completely, but there is no option to not get the additional chargers.
Hi there Ron,
I almost agree. Sure, a modern USB cable must be cheap to the manufacturer.
Probably the printing on the box costs more than it does to supply a modern
mass-produced USB cable.
But, a cable won't ALWAYS work!
The one caveat you MUST keep in mind for MOST (all?) modern portable
devices which use USB to charge is that the USB 2.0 PC will NOT charge a
completely dead portable device. Yup. The reason is that the device has to
TELL the PC to output the power to charge versus just supplying two-way
data transfer. Basically the portable GPS unit must ASK for power from the
PC! If it's completely dead, it can't do that.
While 95% of the time your modern portable device won't be COMPLETELY dead,
to plan for the other 5%, you'll need the modern AC or DC mini-USB adapter
in addition to the PC cable.
I'm sure there are people on this newsgroup who know the USB specification
better than I so please correct me if I'm wrong that a PC cable won't
charge modern electronics if the portable device is completely dead.
Maybe there is a way in PC software to TELL the USB device to output the
power in that case? Do experts on this newsgroup know?
sarah
Dale DePriest
sarah bennett wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 01:52:05 +0100, Robert Peffers. wrote:
>
>>>> What GPS units are powered and recharge their batteries using mini USB?
>> I'm still wondering why a USB charger is of use for a portable GPS that is a
>> stand alone unit?
>
> Hi there Robert,
>
> USB is not just for computers. Think of it as a "universal power adapter".
> It happens to conform the the power supply requirements for USB, but
> there's no "data" in a power adapter.
>
> With a "universal power adapter" (ie the USB B power supply), you can
> charge your telephone, your earbud, your mp3 player, your camera, and your
> GPS ........ all from the same "universal power supply".
>
> This is so very important for portable electronics that I'm shocked that
> the GPS review web sites don't make it one of the number one criterias
> (after performance metrics, of course).
>
> Is there a web site that explains which power adapter is used by the
> various GPS units under test?
>
> sarah
>
>
It would be nice if this were so but it is not a universal power adapter
since the USB standard is _very_ limited in the amount of current it can
supply thus you can blow up your computer if you try and hook a device
that needs 2 Amps to a computer interface. For this reason there are
lots of tricks in trying to make a connector that can power your unit
and can also hook it to a computer. These tricks usually involve the
other pins in the device to try and make it be able to tell what kind of
power that is available. There is no standard for these tricks thus
there is no standard for USB power adapters, particularly when fast
charger or high current power is needed.
sarah bennett
> It would be an error to assume that all 'USB' chargers or power sources
> are the same. The charger for my Motorola Razr will not charge either my
> wife's Blackberry or my GPSMap60cx.
Hi there Mr. Physics,
I use my Blackberry mini-USB AC adapter to charge my kid's Motorola RAZR
all the time! And vice versa. No damage yet. Nothing gets overly hot
either.
The only difference I've seen in the miriad of mini-USB adapters I have is
the maximum current (generally 400ma for earbuds, 500 ma for phones, and
750 ma for higher-powered devices).
For example, the maximum current on the Motorola RAZR mini-USB AC power
supply is 500 ma while the Blackberry AC adapter safely puts out 750 ma if
called upon. So, of course, it's safer to go with the Blackberry AC + DC
power supplies and adapters ... but both work just fine and both charge the
Motorola earbud also.
sarah
sarah bennett
> If the device has a 5V (or higher) battery, or if the size of the
> battery requires a charging current of more than 500 mA, the USB port is
> not a good choice for a charging source.
Hi there Jack,
My Blackberry AC adpater outputs has a mini USB connector yet it outputs
750ma at 5 volts.
MODEL = PSM04A-050RIM
PART NUMBER = ASY-07040-001
INPUT = 100 to 240 VAC, 50-60 Hz, 0.2A
OUTPUT = 5 volts c.c. 0.75A
BTW, what does "c.c." mean?
sarah
Mr Physics
Heaven knows I've tried. Maybe a more systematic approach would be
better. I can't get anything to charge the Razr except a purpose-built
charger and the USB cable to the pc. And the cable to the PC only seems
to work if the driver for the phone is loaded. I wonder if a newer phone
firmware would help. This is a very early model GSM Motorola.
In the past we've deliberately bought the same models of phone and
laptop to try to minimize logistical issues at work, at home and when we
travel.
On a grand scale this stuff ranks as annoyance but it is definitely
frustrating to deal with and can become an obsession for people like me.
Greg
Darren Dunham
> better than I so please correct me if I'm wrong that a PC cable won't
> charge modern electronics if the portable device is completely dead.
All I know is that my USB keyboard, mouse, and scanner don't have any
batteries, and they work. So there must be some way to draw power
immediately from USB without having to explicitly request it via an
internal power source.
It could even be the other way around. That some devices are
manufactured in such a way that the USB chip cannot charge the main
device unless it's already powered up to some extent.
--
Darren Dunham ddu...@taos.com
Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/
Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area
< This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. >
Ted Edwards
> Where can we find a list of which GPS units use standard mini-USB power?
> Does the Garmin Nuvi 350/360 use mini-USB to power & charge the batteries?
I have a Garmin 76Cx. This unit is far more convenient for walking than
a Nuvi and does quite well for us in the car. It is powered by two AA
cells and will run on those for two to three times as long as the Nuvi's
specified 5 hours. I use NiMH rechargeables in the unit so there is no
disposables.
This unit can get its power from the two AA cells, a 12 to 36V external
source (e.g. vehicle) or USB from an independent USB power source or my
laptop. When traveling, I carry spare NiMH cells and a Maha MH-C401FS
charger that will recharge 1, 2, 3 or 4 AA or AAA cells (I use AAA cells
in my pocket LED flashlight.) The Maha charger requires 12V which may
be supplied by a vehicle or a 100 to 240V power supply. The Nuvi uses a
Li-ion battery which I try to avoid except in my laptop computer because
they are expensive and proprietary. A small pack of NiMH cells gives me
spares for my flashlight, digital camera and GPS. A Kensington or APC
power supply can run from world wide wall power or a vehicle and
provides all the recharging capabilities I require.
Ted
Jack Erbes
I don't know what "c.c" is, maybe current capacity? That is not a
standard abbreviation as far as I know.
The USB and Mini-USB connectors have become widely used as a means to
provide power to, and charge batteries contained in, electronic devices.
I was not saying that USB cannot satisfy the power/charging needs you
describe, just that trying to charge devices from a USB port intended
for data I/O needs consideration on a case by case basis.
Just because you received an AC or DC adapter with a USB connector for
use in charging a device, does not mean that you can charge that device
from anything with the USB connector.
Your Blackberry adapter is an example. By its specs, it can provide at
least 50 per cent more power (750 mA) that a USB port on a computer (500
mA). If you assumed that the Blackberry with a nearly depleted battery
needed most of the AC adapter's capacity, a USB port on a computer would
not be able to meet the need. If your Blackberry were trying to draw
600 mA of current from a USB port, that is more than a USB port is ever
supposed to provide.
There is a good explanation of the power plan in USB ports and also some
discussion of how some devices that can misuse the USB power scheme here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
The USB and Mini-USB connectors have become a convenient way to supply
power to devices, but they also can be misused. Especially in the
marketing of low cost "gadget" items and in low cost replacements for
more expensive OEM items. The OEM items may have contained
sophisticated electronics and have been much more sophisticated than
that inexpensive replacement that does the same thing.
Jack
Larry G
I used AA and AAA NiMH batteries and a Maha charger but my experience
with the NiMH is that they do not hold an equivalent charge and,
seemed to me, in practice to last only about 1/2 as long as a regular
Alkaline. Since battery life in a GPS is already an issue - I found
the NiMH not as useful. Perhaps your mileage was better.
Also.. WRT "the environment" and recharging from your automobile
battery ... oh contrare....
folks might want to recognize that your car battery must be recharged
also.. and that you are using gasoline and a not-very-efficient power
generator (as compared to 110 electricity power generation). If it
were "better" to use gasoline engine power - all of us would have
gasoline generators outside our homes - instead of getting power of
the "grid" ... so ... sometimes thinking a particular strategy is
"good" for the environment.. can be misleading...
Des O'Donoghue
> It would be an error to assume that all 'USB' chargers or power sources
> are the same. The charger for my Motorola Razr will not charge either my
> wife's Blackberry or my GPSMap60cx. 5V power and a common connector do
> not a standard make, unfortunately. As far as I can tell, the best that
> can be said about this is that mixing and matching chargers will
> probably not harm charger or device. I seem to remember reading that
> this is a result of certain pins other than +5V and GND on the USB link
> being held, high, low, or left to float to tell the device that it
> should be in charge mode. Sometimes engineers are too smart for our own
> good.
> Greg
Funny that. When we had a Razr it would charge the blackberry no problem
but the blackberry charger and the car chargers wouldn't charge the Razr.
Dana
The connector on this Nuvi is a mini-USB.
The AC adapter, and the USB cable have a mini-usb connector for connection
to the Nuvi.
As an example, the AC adapter that came with my Blue-Tooth headset is able
to charge the Nuvi via its mini-usb plug also.
Now...the connection for the car is different though. The battery life is
only 3-4 hours, so when driving, you do need to plug it in. This unit is
desiged to pick up MSN Radio signals (trafic, etc), so you need to plug the
nuvi into the supplied windshield mounting bracet.
This connector works very well, but it's a connection to an edge of the
printed circut board. (10 pin connector). A little hard to describe, but
it's something that works ok.
So, to use Traffic, you must use the AC Car adapter, and the Window mount.
Otherwise, use a mini-usb to charge it.
When the unit is plugged into the computer, the USB will charge the unit.
However, Windows looks at the unit as a mass storage device. The unit comes
out of navagation mode. You can not navigate with the unit while plugged
into the computer. For $1000, you would think you would have that option!!
As a side note on Garmin units, one can go to their website and download
operating manuals if you have a specific question on any of their units.
Now... the Nuvi 680 is a great step ahead, but the unit has a lot of
Software bugs in it. I am really disappointed with the software design of
the Nuvi. The list is long. Garmin should have done a much better job.
--
Dana
"sarah bennett" <anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GqY6i.4266$u56....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
sarah bennett
> Hi Sarah. I have a Garmin Nuvi 680.
> The connector on this Nuvi is a mini-USB.
> The AC adapter, and the USB cable have a mini-usb connector for connection
> to the Nuvi.
Hi there Dana,
It's great you tell us about the Garmin Nüvi 680 power because even the
supposedly detailed product "reviews" don't even mention this most basic of
specifications.
For example, there is nothing about the USB power in the "GPS Magazine"
supposed "in-depth 26-page review". Hah! In depth review my buns.
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2007/02/garmin_nuvi_680_indepth_review.php
Likewise with the "PC Magazine" supposed "full review" of the Garmin nüvi
680 GPS! Hah. Full review my buns. For example, for power it simply says
"Power: Adapter, Battery". What a joke.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2079151,00.
It's a similar story with the supposed "full review" at GPS Lodge
http://www.gpslodge.com/archives/009315.php
Having said that, I must commend this newsgroup for helping a basic user
find out the most basic of information about a GPS unit that even the
supposedly complete reviewers don't even know!
The problem is this lack of electrical understanding by the GPS review
editors makes it extremely difficult to compare GPS units side by side
without actually purchasing the unit and testing it out. I thought the
whole purpose of a supposed detailed review was to save us the trouble!
sigh...
sarah
sarah bennett
> If it were "better" to use gasoline engine power - all of us would have
> gasoline generators outside our homes - instead of getting power of
> the "grid" ... so ... sometimes thinking a particular strategy is
> "good" for the environment.. can be misleading...
Hi there Larry,
I'm sorry I brought up the environment ... :)
sarah
sarah bennett
Hi Dale,
I met you once in the south bay. IIRC, you worked for a software company
and had a red compact car and lots of GPS units stuck to the dash with
sticky tape! I thought it was neat that you tested GPS units on your own!
You showed me every one!
Anyway, do you have any idea why supposedly "in-depth" GPS reviews don't
mention this simplest of all specifications?
For example, even the Garmin Nüvi 680 "in-depth" (ha) reviews in "GPS
Magazine" fail to mention what the power supply really is.
Is this sad or am I missing something very basic in GPS units (perhaps the
most basic specification there is)?
sarah
sarah bennett
It is not!
It's very hard to compare GPS units when all we have is hearsay as to what
the power supply REALLY is. I do thank people for telling me the power
supply of THEIR units, but this makes it extremely hard to compare as I
have to build my own comparison table based on the ad hoc information in
this thread.
You'd think a review or the Owners Manual would cover this most basic of
all specifications of GPS units!
for example, the Garmin Nüvi XXX Owners Manual is located here
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/1184_OwnersManual.pdf
On page 9 of 74 (page 3 in the Basic Operations chapter) it says
Charging the nüvi
To charge the nüvi, use one of the following methods:
- Connect the nüvi to the suction mount and the 12-Volt car adapter
- Connect the USB cable to the nüvi and your computer
- Connect the AC adapter to the nüvi and a wall outlet
Is the AC adaptor mini USB? You can't tell.
Is the DC adaptor mini USB? You can't tell.
Unfortunately, this nüvi Owners Manual tells us nothing about the format of
the DC and AC power adapters. The question remains unanswered by Garmin
whether they are mini-usb or not.
Of course, half the time one could hazard a "guess" that they might be -
but the other half the time, one could guess the AC & DC power supplies
connect to a different location than the USB power.
It's sad to say that an Owners Manual doesn't even tell us the most basic
of portable GPS unit specifications!
Short of having to ask you experts every time for every GPS unit ....
Is there ANYWHERE the power supply is correctly listed for Garmin nüvi unit
comparisons?
sarah
sarah bennett
> As a side note on Garmin units, one can go to their website and download
> operating manuals if you have a specific question on any of their units.
Hi there Dana,
You'd THINK that! But it's wrong.
Here is the Owners Manual for the Garmin nüvi 680 GPS unit you mentioned
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/nuvi680_OwnersManual.pdf
On page 6 of the "Getting Started" chapter (page 14 of 60 overall), it says
Charging your nüvi
- Connect the power cable to the nüvi's cradle and a power outlet in your
vehicle. Place the nüvi in the cradle. You may need to start your vehicle.
- Connect the USB cable to the nüvi and your computer
- Connect the AC adapter to the nüvi and a wall outlet
Notice there is NOTHING that says the DC and AC adapter are mini-USB
format! Of course, you might GUESS that they are - but you just as well
might guess that they are not.
It's amazing to me that neither the supposed reputable GPS magazines nor
the actual manufacturer's owners manual states what the specifications are
for something as basic as the AC and DC adapters for portable electronics.
It is just me that is shocked at how little there is out there of the most
basic of all specifications?
Is there any other way to find the answer other than to ask you for every
single GPS unit out there? What in the devil are the supposed "reviews" for
anyway if they don't even mention this most basic of portable electronics
specifications?
I am frustrated.
sarah
Su Nombre
<do...@68.usenet.us.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:f3fv4v$r0s$1...@blue.rahul.net...
> The current 60csx does charge from USB.
>
Double checked: My Garmin GPSMap 60CSx does NOT charge NiMH batteries.
Regards
Vicente
Ron Hunter
and the cable has a standard USB connector on the other end. It does
charge from the laptop's USB port, but the connectors are NOT miniUSB,
but the full size USB connector at the USB end.
The Nuvi models you mentioned so state that they will charge from a USB
port, but don't mention the connectors.
Ron Hunter
It isn't possible in normal use to completely discharge the battery in
my GPS, or cell-phones. They shut off when the battery voltage gets
critical.
Larry G
I actually like the idea of doing away with all the multiple chargers
and connectors for one or two simple ones but alas as pointed out -
each unit has some specifics - usually found in the small print on the
unit itself or the owners manual. It's stuff most folks just
ignore... in my car.. I have a multiple outlet 12-volt "block" for
plugging in the various cells and gps, etc... and at first the idea of
having a single charge point sounded really good.. and then reality
set in with the posts that pointed out the different power
requirements .. of different devices...
Larry G
no problem. It's a common mistake .. we all want to be "greener" but
it's our total energy footprint and what the bigger useages are...
so... charging from a car battery - itself recharged from burning
gasoline fuel - vs charging from a 110 outlet - powered by more
efficient burning of coal probably is miniscule in the bigger scheme
of things - like hot water heaters and/or air conditioning in the
home.. and just sheer miles driven in cars.
How much different? I have no clue but I suspect plugging in
electrical devices to recharge from your auto engine probably means
that instead of 20 mpg .. you might get 19.99992 mpg... or some such.
ditto if you chose home charging.. instead of 1000 killowatts.. you
might use 1000.0000002 killowats...
:-)
Ron Hunter
Bluetooth headset are identical. I am able to charge my eXplorist 400
from my laptop via the data/power cable, but I don't know if I can
charge the RAZR from the laptop with the phone to computer USB cable I
bought with the software to download pictures, ringtones, etc., from the
phone to the computer.
Quite possible, but I don't have any real reason to try it.
Ron Hunter
supply might take a while longer....
Dale DePriest
Hi Sarah
This is a rather new feature of products. In the past there was never a
reason to mention the type of connector on the end of the plug as it was
assumed that you would use the power adapter it came with. As connectors
become more standard there has become a serious problem with power as
the mini-USB connector becomes standardized for portable devices. Even
if they mention the type of connector you still will not know if a
generic power adapter will work for the unit.
The basic problem is mA capability of the power adapter they give you
with the unit. If it exceeds 500 mA then it is likely that they have
modified it to provide protection for you laptop. This is due to the
basic limitation in power available from a laptop. Many GPS devices have
requirements for power that exceed the ability of a laptop to supply. In
some cases they have intentionally shut down the unit to avoid using too
much power. Another user in this thread already commented that "How
could they be so stupid to do this" but he clearly is clueless as to the
power needs of a device but this doesn't even slow him down at
criticizing. Other units make changes in the behavior of the device to
attempt to limit the power needs when hooked to a computer but the trick
is how to design the unit to detect whether it is hooked to a computer
or to a power brick. This often requires modifying the brick.
I suggest that, in your case, you suggest politely to the reviewers that
this is an important feature for you and that you would appreciate them
adding it to the review. Reviewers don't go to school or get any
training in doing reviews and many, like myself, are just volunteers.
However, as I said, having the connector, is not enough to meet your
requirements anyway and could lead to a mistake.
Robert Peffers.
"karel" <adelc...@zeverSKYNET.BE> wrote in message
news:465bb0a7$0$13850$ba62...@news.skynet.be...> news:1m4whz4x8e5h0.9...@40tude.net...
>
>> Does a (magnetic) compass work inside a (steel) automobile?
>
> Can't be sure about cars, but they have been known to work in aircraft.
> And don't come and tell me these are aluminium: every plane contains
> a fair amount of iron/steel, in the engine(s) at least.
> KA
>
Sorry to disillusion you but ships, aircraft compasses are only made
possible due to the vehicles being degaussed, (demagnetised), and the
vehicle's natural magnetism neutralised with magnets. Not only that but they
use gyroscopes to assure the compass points to true North instead of the
magnetic North than actually moves around a bit. They are also mounted on
gimbals inside a binnacle.
--
Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Dale DePriest
This is generally true of all devices that permit Alkaline batteries. If
they allowed the charge circuit to work on the battery compartment and
you installed regular batteries you could cause serious problems. This
is why they don't do that.
Robert Peffers.
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 02:23:59 +0100, Robert Peffers. wrote:
>
>> Yet I have not one USB charger among the whole lot.
>> Instead I have a small settable mains voltage power supply
>> and a tiny case of power adapters. All the above are
>> able to be powered from the vehicle's 12 volt system.
>
> Hi there Robert,
>
> This is great! You have accomplished what I want to accomplish. A single
> "universal" charger for all my portable electronics equipment. There's no
> downside to it. It's good for us in all the ways that I can think of.
>
> For you, it's the voltage regulator plus adapters.
> For me, it's mini B USB power.
>
> We both accomplish the same task. Now, for me, the question is to find a
> portable GPS unit that charges via the mini B USB power supply. In my
> email, I was told the Nuvi 350 does NOT charge via the USB "data" port.
> But
> here someone said it did. So I'm still a bit confused.
>
> I wonder if there is a web site which references what the power supply is
> for portable GPS units???
>
> sarah
I really don't know what the USB situation is as GPS charging. I set up my
system years ago before USB charging had been thought of. To my mind, (not
always the best judge of things), USB charging could have disadvantage in
that the chargers are built in and electronics do go wrong. The dedicated
switchable charger, on the other hand, can be substituted. I actually have
one driven by the vehicle's electrics but which can use a Wall-Wart type
three pin 12 volts mains power unit too. Having had to replace several USB
connectors in the past I am just a bit wary of them.
sarah bennett
> However, as I said, having the connector, is not enough to meet your
> requirements anyway and could lead to a mistake.
Hi there Dale,
You're the GPS afficianado, so I take your word as Gospel. I do understand
the 500ma limit of the PC and the 5V requirement of the unit and I think,
by your words, that you understand why someone like I would want to know if
the GPS unit allows a "standard" modern connection.
Luckily, we're only talking about three things
- connector & pinout (pretty simple - there only a few wires here)
- supply voltage & current (pretty simple - eg 5v 500ma by the standard)
- charge voltage & current (pretty simple - eg 5v 400ma or 5v 700ma)
Since we're pretty much agreed on the first two items based on the USB
specification, we're mostly left with the third. And, I think we're agreed
that the third only "matters" when the charge current is greater than the
supply current.
In practice, this is pretty easily handled. Just bring a 750ma AC + DC
adapter and all the units will be happy. My Blackberry, mp3 player, earbud,
and camera all charge fine even with the 500 ma limitiation of the PC.
While you can sense my frustration and shock that neither the reviewers nor
the Owners Manuals detail these simple power supply specifications, I do
understand that the volunteer reviewers are here to help us.
I hope this thread gets noticed by at least one GPS reviewer who can then
let us all in on the simple power supply secret of the NEXT GPS unit that
undergoes a review.
If we all ask the reviewers to at least provide a "yes/no" checkbox to the
question below, we would have a BETTER GPS review. Adding the power
requirement spec would be a little bit of effort for a much larger gain and
no loss of data!
IMHO, the modern world requires this question in all good GPS reviews going
forward!
* Does this GPS unit support the USB 2.0 mini-B specification (Yes or No)
Otherwise, we're all forced to ask the question of each GPS unit under
consideration. Having said that, I'm still unsure which nuvi units support
the GPS specification for the AC + DC adapter! :(
sarah
Dana
All companies are guilty of providing poor documentation.
Another problem companies are now doing in software help is just providing a
Search Help for topics, but nothing really readable. You have to search for
a known keyword to use Help.
So basically, one is unable to sit down and read about your software.
One the Nuvi 680, the diagram on Page 1 points to the slot and calls it "USB
Connector."
The only place that I know of is on page 31, under "Loading Files." It
mentions "Connect the mini-usb connector to the side of the Nuvi."
But I agree, this is not the place to mention it, as it's hard to find.
It should be on the main "Technical Specifications" page, but it is not.
Neither is it at the link for "A complete list of specifications for the
Nuvi..."
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=8579
--
Dana
"sarah bennett" <anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:u097i.6270$C96....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
sarah bennett
> When the unit is plugged into the computer, the USB will charge the unit.
> However, Windows looks at the unit as a mass storage device. The unit comes
> out of navagation mode. You can not navigate with the unit while plugged
> into the computer.
Hi there Dana,
In re reading all the posts to find out which GPS units actually can use an
AC + DC mini-USB power supply, I realized from your earlier post there are
TWO basic questions all future GPS reviewers should answer if they wish to
provide useful modern information to modern GPS owners.
QUESTION A:
- Can the GPS unit be CHARGED by its mini-USB port?
QUESTION B:
- Can the GPS unit be OPERATED while connected to mini-USB power?
Since the Garmin downloaded owners manuals are useless in this regard,
likewise with all the reviews I found on the net :( .... I decided to buy a
Garmin nüvi 360 to test it out.
Guess what? Here's my addendum to all the reviews:
- Can the Garmin nüvi 350/360 be CHARGED by mini-USB power = YES!
- Can the Garmin nüvi 350/360 be OPERATED under mini-USB power = NO!
Sigh. Along with the nüvi 670/680, nother potential GPS unit bites the
dust. I'm returning it and searching for a GPS unit that is modern enough
to both charge and operate from the mini-USB power port.
We all benefit (there is no downside) from eliminating proprietary AC + DC
power supplies.
sarah
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> <do...@68.usenet.us.com> escribi? en el mensaje
> > The current 60csx does charge from USB.
> Double checked: My Garmin GPSMap 60CSx does NOT charge NiMH batteries.
Sorry. I got distracted by my lack of USB power... The 60csx can be
powered by the USB port. That isn't what the original ranter was after.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> This is generally true of all devices that permit Alkaline batteries. If
> they allowed the charge circuit to work on the battery compartment and
> you installed regular batteries you could cause serious problems. This
> is why they don't do that.
I have a portable CD player that charges NiCd batteries, but not NiMH,
when plugged in to external power. There is a "charging" LED that
would come on with NiCd, but not NiMH or Alkaline. That agreed with a
statement in the user's guide.
My Sony MiniDisc player will charge NiMH batteries when plugged in
to external power. I haven't tried Alkaline to see if there is some
circuitry to prevent charging those.
sarah bennett
> plugging in electrical devices to recharge from your auto engine
> probably means that instead of 20 mpg .. you might get 19.99992 mpg
Hi there Larry,
Actually, my "environment" issue was more a statement of the tremendous
waste of having a drawer chock full of proprietary power supplies and not
being able to use any of them on my modern electronics.
If they were all mini-USB (which all modern electronics should support
IMHO), then we could re-use them.
It would also be more convenient as we could keep a spare in our car, in
our mobile home, in our office, in our bags, etc.
And, we'd never be out either because every mom and pop drugstore would
have them in stock.
If standardizing on AA/A/C/D batteries is a good thing, then so is
standardizing on mini-USB power supplies!
If only the GPS reviews or Owners Manuals TOLD us which GPS units
standardized for our benefit on mini-USB charging and useage
a. Does your GPS unit CHARGE from a mini-USB port?
b. Does your GPS unit OPERATE from a mini-USB port?
Together, making the world a better place,
sarah
p.s. Operating your headlights lowers your gas mileage too!
Why? For ever action, there is an equal & opposite reaction!
sarah bennett
> The only place that I know of is on page 31, under "Loading Files." It
> mentions "Connect the mini-usb connector to the side of the Nuvi."
> But I agree, this is not the place to mention it, as it's hard to find.
> It should be on the main "Technical Specifications" page, but it is not.
Hi there Dana,
I see we need to separate USB DATA from USB POWER.
All GPS Owners Manuals & all the reviews I found seem to be clear on USB
data transfer, and some seem to be somewhat clear on USB charging, but none
seem to be clear on USB operation!
I suggest future modern portable electronics reviewers ask basic questions:
a. Does the portable unit CHARGE using standard (5v/500ma) mini-USB?
b. Does the portable unit OPERATE using standard mini-USB?
c. Does the portable unit transfer DATA using standard mini-USB?
We'd all benefit from the answers. There is no downside to having this
critical information for all portable electronic devices in the future.
My goal is a single AC + DC + PC suppy & cable for my cellphone, mp3
player, earbud, camera, and handheld GPS! I won't buy anything that's not
standard USB for charging, operation, and data!
sarah
sarah bennett
> Sorry. I got distracted by my lack of USB power... The 60csx can be
> powered by the USB port. That isn't what the original ranter was after.
Hi there dold,
Please don't mistake responsiveness for ranting.
Also, let's be clear what POWER means to users.
I suggest modern reviewers add to basic questions to GPS tests:
- USB power to CHARGE the device under test (yes/no)
- USB power to OPERATE the device under test (yes/no)
If the next reviewer adds these two questions to their GPS review, I think
that would be an improvement and of benefit to the users.
Do you think not?
sarah
Terran Melconian
> When the unit is plugged into the computer, the USB will charge the unit.
> However, Windows looks at the unit as a mass storage device. The unit comes
> out of navagation mode. You can not navigate with the unit while plugged
> into the computer. For $1000, you would think you would have that option!!
If necessary, one could construct a USB cable which connects the 5v and
ground pins, but not the data pins, allowing the unit to charge without
going into mass storage mode.
In fact, it appears that such an adapters can be purchased ready-made;
search for 'usb mini "power only"'.
I will not argue, however, that for $1,000, they could have at least put
one in the box!
Marc Ramsey
> Sorry to disillusion you but ships, aircraft compasses are only made
> possible due to the vehicles being degaussed, (demagnetised), and the
> vehicle's natural magnetism neutralised with magnets. Not only that but they
> use gyroscopes to assure the compass points to true North instead of the
> magnetic North than actually moves around a bit. They are also mounted on
> gimbals inside a binnacle.
This may be partially true of ship compasses, but talking as a pilot and
aircraft owner:
1. Aircraft are not de-gaussed.
2. Magnetic compasses are a still a primary navigation instrument
required in most aircraft.
3. Courses, headings, wind directions, runways, etc., are in magnetic
degrees by default.
4. The directional gyros in most (but not all) aircraft are periodically
manually reset to the current reading of the magnetic compass, and
normally point to magnetic north. Directional gyros are used as
magnetic compasses are subject to large acceleration errors while turning.
5. Aircraft magnetic compasses contain adjustable compensation magnets
which allow for removal of large errors due to masses of ferrous metal
in the aircraft. There is always a correction card on the compass which
the pilot uses to allow for any smaller errors that could not be removed
with the compensation magnets. Aircraft compasses are calibrated by
putting the aircraft on a compass rose painted on the tarmac, physically
rotating the aircraft, and adjusting the compass accordingly.
Marc
Dale DePriest
A $1000 unit will typically pull more than 500 mA from the needed
adapter. It likely needs 1 to 2 amps to power it thus the design choices
since trying to run it on you PC power would likely destroy the PC USB port.
Dale DePriest
sarah bennett wrote:
> My goal is a single AC + DC + PC suppy & cable for my cellphone, mp3
> player, earbud, camera, and handheld GPS! I won't buy anything that's not
> standard USB for charging, operation, and data!
>
> sarah
Sarah, It seems you will not buy anything needing more than 500 mA which
includes a lot of devices including just about any of the devices with
backlighted color screens and hard drivers. Someday perhaps power
requirements will be lower but for now you will only be able to buy very
simple units.
Dominic Sexton
<Da...@gpsinformation.het> writes
>A $1000 unit will typically pull more than 500 mA from the needed
>adapter. It likely needs 1 to 2 amps to power it thus the design
>choices since trying to run it on you PC power would likely destroy the
>PC USB port.
The USB specifications require that USB ports or host controllers and
powered hubs have in built current limiting to ensure that the port (and
the host / hub) are not damaged by devices connected to the port
attempting to draw too much current.
No damage will occur to hardware that adheres to the specifications no
matter what load is connected to the power supply from the port.
--
Dominic Sexton
do...@68.usenet.us.com
> On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:04:31 +0000 (UTC), do...@68.usenet.us.com wrote:
> > the original ranter
> Hi there dold,
> Please don't mistake responsiveness for ranting.
I am not. This was a nice thread.
You are beating on the wrong crowd with your ranting about a mini USB being
the most important feature/review/userguide item/purchase consideration.
> Also, let's be clear what POWER means to users.
> I suggest modern reviewers add to basic questions to GPS tests:
> - USB power to CHARGE the device under test (yes/no)
> - USB power to OPERATE the device under test (yes/no)
oooooo... "suggest". That works much better with the average crowd.
"CHARGE the device" should say "CHARGE the batteries", which might be
"permanent internal", "changeable proprietary", NiMH AA, NiCd-not-NiMH.
Joe Laur
view of electronics and batteries, to insist that all equipment in the
universe must be USB powered.
My Magellan 2200T has a great battery, lasts about 8 hours (therefore I
almost never plug it in while driving). But to recharge that, it takes a 2
amp adapter, and therefore it only takes a couple of hours to get a complete
charge. If limited to the 500 ma of a USB power supply, it would probably
take 8 hours to charge an 8 hour battery (which seems pointless).
Similarly, I have one digital camera (Fuji) that uses USB power, but my
Panasonic takes a 6 volt - 1 amp connection to run it, anything less is like
running on very slow (= dying) battery.
I do have 3 cell phones, all from different manufacturers, that use a
"common" cell phone adapter (~5mm round plug), so one adapter in the car can
charge any of them. Since none of the phones connect to a computer, I
imagine the manufacturer saw no need to use a computer standard to provide
power, when a common 5mm plug works just fine.
The USB connector works great when the battery and device are of the size
and design such that it's an appropriate power supply. But since not
everything in the universe fits that limited spec, it's inappropriate to
limit yourself to only those devices. Just go with the device that has the
best features, and live with the fact that there are multiple power
requirements.
Joe
"Dale DePriest" <Da...@gpsinformation.het> wrote in message
news:135rfi1...@corp.supernews.com...
karel
"Robert Peffers." <pef...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:qYKdnX0fwYm8DMDb...@bt.com...
Hm. And the gyroscopes are calibrated to what?
And how is this calibration carried out?
In other words how does the gyroscope learn "true North" ?
Without wanting to be rude, the other answer* corresponds
better to what I was taught in ground glass
and to what I saw my flight instructor doing.
And, err, could you give me a pointer to any
"aircraft degaussing facility" ?
On a sidenote, I once was told about a facility for
calibrating aircraft's magnetic compasses,
constructed out of wood and rotating on
big but delicate glass spheres, carefully avoiding
any metal in the whole construction.
This was at airfield Grimbergen EBGB at one time,
or so I was told.
Rgds,
Karel.
*by Mr. Mark Ramsey
Happy Trails
>Together, making the world a better place,
>sarah
>
>p.s. Operating your headlights lowers your gas mileage too!
>Why? For ever action, there is an equal & opposite reaction!
Would it hurt you to have someone point out that the hundreds of
man-hours spent typing responses on dozens of computers to your post
probably has wasted far more energy and natural resources and
increased the levels of CO2 contributing to global warming than the
manufacture of a significant number of chargers!
Dale DePriest
Good to know although I have had my PC crash and reboot itself over this
issue. It seemed at the time to be a hardware problem although perhaps
it didn't permanently damage it.
Jack Erbes
You can buy USB hubs that come with an external DC adapter so that you
can connect heavier loads through a single port. I have one that
converts one USB port to four ports.
The four ports all use the 5VDC from the computer unless I plug the DC
adapter in. Wit the DC adapter plugged in the hub is disconnected from
the computer's 5VDC source and the ports on the hub have a shared 5
Amp source.
Those are a good choice for connecting (via LPT to USB and serial to USB
adapters) older printers and scanners that have a heavy draw. Things
like the HP LaserJet II, III and IV series printers that seem to have a
service life measured in decades, not years.
I'm still using a LaserJet 4L that is dated march 1994, I got it in 2000
(at a yard sale for $2.00), and other than one toner cartridge it has
needed nothing since I got it.
Those printers honored the work ethics of the HP founders, the current
HP stuff has a service life that is about 2 days longer than the
warranty as near as I can tell.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
sarah bennett
> Sarah, It seems you will not buy anything needing more than 500 mA
Hi there Dale,
I understand what you're saying. But let's remember our Blackberry
"mini-usb" charger outputs 750ma c.c. so I think the "practical" upper
limit at least 50% higher than the "official" USB 2.0 spec already.
I've had no problems charging my blackberry from the PC, from the AC, or
from the DC adapters.
Still, don't you think these three yes/no questions are of use to users in
a GPS review?
a. Does the GPS CHARGE via mini-USB connector?
b. Does the GPS OPERATE off the mini-USB power?
c. Does the GPS transfer DATA through the mini-USB port?
susan
sarah bennett
> If necessary, one could construct a USB cable which connects the 5v and
> ground pins, but not the data pins, allowing the unit to charge without
> going into mass storage mode.
Hi Terran,
THIS IS A GREAT MOD!
If removing the 'data' pin from the mini-USB cable works to tell the GPS
it's POWER and not DATA, that's fantastic! It would all of a sudden make
the Garmin nuvi units usable for my purposes!
Being a herd animal, I wonder aloud ...
Has anyone ever done the USB-data-to-Power-only mod successfully
for GPS units such as the Garmin Nuvi's?
sarah
PS THis is what the usenet is all about! This is a GREAT idea!
sarah bennett
> A $1000 unit will typically pull more than 500 mA from the needed
> adapter.
Hi there Dale,
I think it's a fair limitation to assume the PC USB port will only put out
500 ma and to use the PC port mostly for the data purposes.
However, with this suggested modification, a standard mini-USB AC or DC
power supply could now run the wayward GPS unit that otherwise wouldn't
OPERATE with the AC or DC power supply.
Couldn't it?
sarah
sarah bennett
> The USB specifications require that USB ports or host controllers and
> powered hubs have in built current limiting to ensure that the port (and
> the host / hub) are not damaged by devices connected to the port
> attempting to draw too much current.
>
> No damage will occur to hardware that adheres to the specifications no
> matter what load is connected to the power supply from the port.
This is great news. It's probably why our Blackberrys work just fine even
though their AC + DC mini-USB adapters put out 750ma.
sarah
sarah bennett
> Path: newssvr11.news.prodigy.net!newsdbm03.news.prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!wasp.rahul.net!192.160.13.20.MISMATCH!rahul.net!azure.rahul.net!dold
> From: do...@68.usenet.us.com
> Newsgroups: alt.satellite.gps,alt.satellite.gps.magellan,sci.geo.satellite-nav
> Subject: Re: A portable GPS should use standard mini-USB power (but which ones do)?
> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:13:18 +0000 (UTC)
> Organization: "a2i network"
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> Xref: prodigy.net alt.satellite.gps:90649 alt.satellite.gps.magellan:7999 sci.geo.satellite-nav:414058
>
> In sci.geo.satellite-nav sarah bennett <anis...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:04:31 +0000 (UTC), do...@68.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
>>> the original ranter
>
>> Hi there dold,
>> Please don't mistake responsiveness for ranting.
>
> I am not. This was a nice thread.
> You are beating on the wrong crowd with your ranting about a mini USB being
> the most important feature/review/userguide item/purchase consideration.
Hi there dold,
I have read every post and I do believe this is a "nice" thread in that it
covers a topic which wasn't met in my prior google search which found you
boys in the first place.
Remember I read the reviews and chose the BEST in Consumer Reports to
consider for buying. It just turns out that ONE feature is a deal breaker
for me, that's all. That shouldn't qualify as ranting (don't you have
features that are deal breakers for you?).
ALso, it looks like we're learning a few things.
1. There are three modes to consider when evaluating mini-USB GPS
2. Few if any reviews and Owners Guides adequately cover those modes
3. USB power officially is limited to 1/2 A but Blackberry goes higher
4. You can't destroy the USB port by attempting to draw too much current
5. You can mod the cable to trick an errant GPS into charging
6. ?
> "CHARGE the device" should say "CHARGE the batteries", which might be
> "permanent internal", "changeable proprietary", NiMH AA, NiCd-not-NiMH.
Agreed! Good point! (reviewers take note.)
sarah
sarah bennett
> Would it hurt you to have someone point out that the hundreds of
> man-hours spent typing responses on dozens of computers to your post
> probably has wasted far more energy and natural resources and
> increased the levels of CO2 contributing to global warming than the
> manufacture of a significant number of chargers!
Hi there Happy Trails,
If the best of the future GPS reviews answered the three basic
power/data/charge questions, then the effort would have been worth it.
If a few manufacturers decided to offer mini-USB for power, charging, and
data as a result of consumer demand stimulated by this thread, then it
would have been worth it.
If any of us learned something we didn't know before the thread was
published, then it would have been worth it.
If this thread helps to reduce the number of adapters we consumers have to
take on a trip to one (from three or four or five) then it would have been
worth it.
If some of us were stimulated to modify a mini-USB cable to trick a GPS
unit into moving out of DATA mode and into OPERATIONAL mode, then this
would have been worth it.
If not, then it wasn't worth it.
Do you think any of these resulted?
sarah
Ron Hunter
> On Wed, 30 May 2007 07:37:21 -0700, Dale DePriest wrote:
>
>> However, as I said, having the connector, is not enough to meet your
>> requirements anyway and could lead to a mistake.
>
> Hi there Dale,
> You're the GPS afficianado, so I take your word as Gospel. I do understand
> the 500ma limit of the PC and the 5V requirement of the unit and I think,
> by your words, that you understand why someone like I would want to know if
> the GPS unit allows a "standard" modern connection.
>
> Luckily, we're only talking about three things
> - connector & pinout (pretty simple - there only a few wires here)
> - supply voltage & current (pretty simple - eg 5v 500ma by the standard)
> - charge voltage & current (pretty simple - eg 5v 400ma or 5v 700ma)
>
> Since we're pretty much agreed on the first two items based on the USB
> specification, we're mostly left with the third. And, I think we're agreed
> that the third only "matters" when the charge current is greater than the
> supply current.
>
> In practice, this is pretty easily handled. Just bring a 750ma AC + DC
> adapter and all the units will be happy. My Blackberry, mp3 player, earbud,
> and camera all charge fine even with the 500 ma limitiation of the PC.
>
> While you can sense my frustration and shock that neither the reviewers nor
> the Owners Manuals detail these simple power supply specifications, I do
> understand that the volunteer reviewers are here to help us.
>
> I hope this thread gets noticed by at least one GPS reviewer who can then
> let us all in on the simple power supply secret of the NEXT GPS unit that
> undergoes a review.
>
> If we all ask the reviewers to at least provide a "yes/no" checkbox to the
> question below, we would have a BETTER GPS review. Adding the power
> requirement spec would be a little bit of effort for a much larger gain and
> no loss of data!
>
> IMHO, the modern world requires this question in all good GPS reviews going
> forward!
> * Does this GPS unit support the USB 2.0 mini-B specification (Yes or No)
>
> Otherwise, we're all forced to ask the question of each GPS unit under
> consideration. Having said that, I'm still unsure which nuvi units support
> the GPS specification for the AC + DC adapter! :(
>
> sarah
Sarah,
Again, read the manuals. They are online at the Garmin site.
It IS in the quick reference manual, although the full manual doesn't
seem to answer the question definitively.
Ron Hunter
them inadequate in other ways, such as screen size as they are intended
for 'untethered' use.
Ron Hunter
when they sense a USB connection.
Ron Hunter
car. There are other types of compasses which are not subject to such
environmental considerations, such as laser types that are set and then
maintain the direction by inertial measurements. Out of the price range
of most compass users, of course.
Ron Hunter
all USB ports have power available, and when one 'extends' the USB
ports, say to a keyboard, or monitor, the power is often either less
than 500mA, or absent entirely.
Ron Hunter
run the 400 for about 17 hours, continuous. The battery charges with
the included AC adaptor in about 3.5 hours, but recharging from the USB
takes overnight. If one can accept the slower charge time, for the
added convenience, this is workable (it is for me). Generally, using a
lower current will work, but take longer, while a higher current may
damage the device, or the battery.