Venus and Earth
dbo...@mindspring.com
Even Stephen Hawking makes this mistake. People tend to take the idea
that earth and Venus are "Sister Planets" too seriously. If they are
sisters, then mama solar system was fooling around with both the
milkman and meter reader cuz they are nothing like each other except in
mass and even there Venus is only 80% of earth. In fact, Venus is so
much closer tot he sun that it gets twice the solar irradiance of
earth. Venus atmosphere is primarily CO2 with large amounts of SO2 and
not much water vapor. By contrast, CO2 is a trace gas in earths
atmosphere and earth has much more water vapor than Venus. Earth's
temp is primarily moderated by the presence of water vapor while Venus
is made hellish by CO2 and it's soalr irradiance being twice that of
earth.
Many people think there is some possibility of eartth becoming like
Venus due to CO2 but a simple calculation shows that you would have to
increase the atmospheric density of CO2 by over 3200X to get close to
what Venus has. Even then it wouldnt be enough because Venus has a
thicker atmosphere than earth and greater solar irradiance. A simple
calc will show that you would need to increase the atmospheric density
of CO2 by over 10,000X to make earth anything like Venus.
Even if you do try to slowly increasre the CO2 content of earths
atmosphere, it has an interesting stabilization feedback mechanism
called...........LIFE. Increased CO2 causes increased plant life ,
particularly in the oceans. This make it a little harder to increase
CO2 than if our earth was sterile.
Note that this is not an anti-Anthropogenic Global Warmign argument but
simply an argument against hyperbole by people who should know better.
Prosecute SCAIFE for Global Warming FLOOD Damages
Quack...
One must always admire David B. O'Hara's contortionist exertions, how
he is able to wiggle and turn so as to get his whole arm all the way up
to his shoulder up his butt to pull out facts fresh, warm and
stinking... examples abound below...
dbo...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Many people tend to think that Venus is somehow a model for earth.
> Even Stephen Hawking makes this mistake. People tend to take the idea
> that earth and Venus are "Sister Planets" too seriously. If they are
> sisters, then mama solar system was fooling around with both the
> milkman and meter reader cuz they are nothing like each other except in
> mass and even there Venus is only 80% of earth.
Of course this comes up because O'Hara's own kids have strong
resemblences to the milkman AND the meter reader. Then again, so does
his wife who obviously come from a culture where incest is not a taboo.
David is very sensitive about this subject, so we shouldn't discuss it
where he might see it. Since his habit is to come drop his drawers and
lay a big turd in the newsgroup and go, he usually never comes back to
address the replies in threads he creates so here is a safe place to
discuss the lack of O'Hara genes in "his offspring".
> In fact, Venus is so
> much closer tot he sun that it gets twice the solar irradiance of
> earth. Venus atmosphere is primarily CO2 with large amounts of SO2 and
> not much water vapor. By contrast, CO2 is a trace gas in earths
> atmosphere and earth has much more water vapor than Venus. Earth's
> temp is primarily moderated by the presence of water vapor while Venus
> is made hellish by CO2 and it's soalr irradiance being twice that of
> earth.
Here it comes:
> Many people think there is some possibility of eartth becoming like
> Venus due to CO2 but a simple calculation shows that you would have to
> increase the atmospheric density of CO2 by over 3200X to get close to
> what Venus has.
My what a load of poop that was.
> Even then it wouldnt be enough because Venus has a
> thicker atmosphere than earth and greater solar irradiance. A simple
> calc will show that you would need to increase the atmospheric density
> of CO2 by over 10,000X to make earth anything like Venus.
Ahhhh, those simple calcs of his. He never tells you what primary facts
he inserts into his calcs. I reverse engineered his calc to derive the
original data points: The putative lenght of his wee-wee (one inch)
divided by the number of times he was dropped on his head as a kid,
times the length of time his virginity persisted after he was married,
plus the change he found between the sofa seat cushions. Let's just
round that out to any nearest 10,000 and by gosh, you get the number
10,000. How come his 10,000 is all brown though?
> Even if you do try to slowly increasre the CO2 content of earths
> atmosphere, it has an interesting stabilization feedback mechanism
> called...........LIFE. Increased CO2 causes increased plant life ,
> particularly in the oceans.
The carbonic acid of dissolved excess CO2 may have something to say
about life in the future oceans. But plants aren't made of carbon
anyway. According to fertilizer sales industry you need N-P-K in the
correct ratio if you want your plants to thrive. Nitrogen, Phosphorus
and Potassium are not increasing in the oceans as a general rule,
although they are increasing in pollution points where they cause DEAD
ZONES. Opps... back to the drawing board for David B. O'Hara, Quack
Extrodinaire.
Phil Hays
>Many people tend to think that Venus is somehow a model for earth.
>Even Stephen Hawking makes this mistake. People tend to take the idea
>that earth and Venus are "Sister Planets" too seriously. If they are
>sisters, then mama solar system was fooling around with both the
>milkman and meter reader cuz they are nothing like each other except in
>mass and even there Venus is only 80% of earth. In fact, Venus is so
>much closer tot he sun that it gets twice the solar irradiance of
>earth.
> Venus atmosphere is primarily CO2 with large amounts of SO2 and
>not much water vapor. By contrast, CO2 is a trace gas in earths
>atmosphere and earth has much more water vapor than Venus. Earth's
>temp is primarily moderated by the presence of water vapor while Venus
>is made hellish by CO2 and it's soalr irradiance being twice that of
>earth.
Venus and the Earth started out similar, but have developed very
differently. Sisters at birth, quite similar when they were younger,
but how have they have changed. Venus and the Earth started with
similar amounts of water, and with the faint early Sun, both probably
had oceans. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas, and increases with
increasing temperature. As a result water vapor amplifies warming.
CO2, on the other hand, is removed faster by rock weathering at
increasing temperatures in the presence of liquid water, so serves as
the moderating gas. Venus would have been both wet and hot, so most
of the CO2 in it's early atmosphere would have been removed. Earth
would have had a much higher CO2 level, CO2 would have been released
until the surface was warm enough for liquid water.
As the faint early Sun became less faint, Venus would have started to
lose water, or more correctly hydrogen. Once CO2 in Venus's
atmosphere was mostly removed, then water vapor concentration would
rise, not only at the surface (~1bar), but at the top of the
atmosphere as well. This is a "runaway moist greenhouse". Water
vapor in the upper atmosphere splits into atoms, and the hydrogen
escapes. Venus would have then developed an oxygen atmosphere, a tiny
fraction of which still remains. When all of the water vapor escaped,
then there would be no more liquid water on the surface to remove CO2.
CO2 levels would then increase until most of the CO2 in the crust was
in the atmosphere.
>Many people think there is some possibility of eartth becoming like
>Venus due to CO2 but a simple calculation shows that you would have to
>increase the atmospheric density of CO2 by over 3200X to get close to
>what Venus has.
As the Sun continues to produce more heat, the Earth will become more
like Venus. 500 million to 1 billion years in the future, the Earth
will go into a runaway moist greenhouse, and once the hydrogen escapes
to space, then will develop a thick, dry and hot CO2 atmosphere much
like Venus has.
> Even then it wouldnt be enough because Venus has a
>thicker atmosphere than earth and greater solar irradiance. A simple
>calc will show that you would need to increase the atmospheric density
>of CO2 by over 10,000X to make earth anything like Venus.
>Even if you do try to slowly increasre the CO2 content of earths
>atmosphere, it has an interesting stabilization feedback mechanism
>called...........LIFE. Increased CO2 causes increased plant life ,
>particularly in the oceans. This make it a little harder to increase
>CO2 than if our earth was sterile.
Life is both a positive and negative feedback into CO2 levels. If the
planet is cold, warming it will add to the mass of living and once
living things storing carbon, reducing CO2 and the warming. If the
planet is hot, warming it will reduce the mass of living and once
living things storing carbon, releasing CO2 and amplifying the
warming.
--
Phil Hays