"He died Oct. 23 of heart failure while mountain biking with friends in the desert near Moab, Utah"
Mike Vandeman
in action!
Mike
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005129425
Todd Johnston, 41
Four Seasons Spa & Pool owner and founder Todd Johnston was
tremendously active—skiing, biking, playing ice hockey, raising
children and loving his wife of 17 years, Vicki. He lived life to the
fullest and did everything with vigor and enthusiasm. After growing up
in Illinois, Todd grew to love the mountains of Idaho and the West. He
died Oct. 23 of heart failure while mountain biking with friends in
the desert near Moab, Utah.
Jeff Strickland
"Mike Vandeman" <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:771f7b4c-129f-4baf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
in action!
Mike
<JS>
Happy Fucking New Year, you sick bastard.
</JS>
Edward Dolan
"Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hho6jf$9cn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Mike Vandeman" <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:771f7b4c-129f-4baf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
> in action!
>> Happy Fucking New Year, you sick bastard.
You are confused. It was this Todd Johnston guy who was the sick fuck. He
was only 41 and is now moldering in his grave because of his mountain biking
mania. I say good riddance.
Middle-aged folks should be out walking, not riding mountain bikes in rugged
terrain. But the dumb and the stupid are not known for living long lives.
I think we all know who is the sick bastard here.
Fucking Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Ed Holman
"Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hho6jf$9cn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >
> > "Mike Vandeman" <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:771f7b4c-129f-4baf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> > So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
> > in action!
>
> >> Happy Fucking New Year, you sick bastard.
>
> You are confused. It was this Todd Johnston guy who was the sick fuck. He
> was only 41 and is now moldering in his grave because of his mountain biking
> mania. I say good riddance.
>
> Middle-aged folks should be out walking, not riding mountain bikes in rugged
> terrain. But the dumb and the stupid are not known for living long lives.
>
> I think we all know who is the sick bastard here.
Yeah, those evolutionally deficient mental misfits from
Minnesota who voted a socialist Arab nigger into the presidency,
and a clown into the Senate.
Tom Sherman °_°
> In article <a8ef$4b401ec6$d8102c96$52...@KNOLOGY.NET>
> "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:hho6jf$9cn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Mike Vandeman" <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:771f7b4c-129f-4baf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>> So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
>>> in action!
>>>> Happy Fucking New Year, you sick bastard.
>> You are confused. It was this Todd Johnston guy who was the sick fuck. He
>> was only 41 and is now moldering in his grave because of his mountain biking
>> mania. I say good riddance.
>>
>> Middle-aged folks should be out walking, not riding mountain bikes in rugged
>> terrain. But the dumb and the stupid are not known for living long lives.
>>
>> I think we all know who is the sick bastard here.
>
> Yeah, those evolutionally deficient mental misfits from
> Minnesota who voted a socialist Arab nigger into the presidency,
> and a clown into the Senate.
>
for the already rich.
Furthermore, whatever Obama is, he is not an Arab - you should be able
to tell by looking at him that he is not Semitic.
Of course, your use of "nigger" says all we need to know about you.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Every American government since Reagan has essentially been
consumed with the task of denuding the middle and working
classes of their paltry share of the national pie, in order to
deliver those dollars into the hands of wealthy political
benefactors." - David Michael Green
hlil...@juno.com
> Middle-aged folks should be out walking, not riding mountain bikes in rugged
> terrain. But the dumb and the stupid are not known for living long lives.
Hah! A durn sight more middle aged folks die at the table, attending
a sporting event, or in front of the TV set than while getting
cardiovascular exercise. Maybe you want to tell them not to eat,
attend sporting events, or watch TV.
Cardiovascular exercise is great but those who are out of shape should
see a doctor first.
Edward Dolan
"Ed Holman" <eho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e33e2b8e9b52d42b...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...[...]
>> I think we all know who is the sick bastard here.
>
> Yeah, those evolutionally deficient mental misfits from
> Minnesota who voted a socialist Arab nigger into the presidency,
> and a clown into the Senate.
Well Hells Bells, you don't think I was stupid enough to vote for either of
them, do you? Minnesota is liberal. It also has a very bad climate. What
does any of that have to do with me?
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:7c60f326-d2d8-4a41...@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Exercise is fine, but it is stupid to do it at the risk of life and limb.
Instead of cycling in the mountains, why not hike. You can get excellent
exercise from hiking and at little or no risk to life and limb.
Mike Vandeman
>
> news:hho6jf$9cn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > "Mike Vandeman" <mike.vande...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:771f7b4c-129f-4baf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> > So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
> > in action!
> >> Happy Fucking New Year, you sick bastard.
>
> You are confused. It was this Todd Johnston guy who was the sick fuck. He
> was only 41 and is now moldering in his grave because of his mountain biking
> mania. I say good riddance.
>
> Middle-aged folks should be out walking, not riding mountain bikes in rugged
> terrain. But the dumb and the stupid are not known for living long lives.
>
> I think we all know who is the sick bastard here.
>
> Fucking Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Thanks for brightening my day, as always! The truth will do that....
That's why we who tell the truth are much happier than these lying
half-wit bastards.
Paul O
> So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
> in action!
>
> Mike
>
>
> http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005129425
>
> Todd Johnston, 41
> Four Seasons Spa & Pool owner and founder Todd Johnston was
> children and loving his wife of 17 years, Vicki. He lived life to the
> fullest and did everything with vigor and enthusiasm. After growing up
> in Illinois, Todd grew to love the mountains of Idaho and the West. He
> died Oct. 23 of heart failure while mountain biking with friends in
> the desert near Moab, Utah.
>
<http://www.gazette.com/articles/incline-56531-rescue-manitou.html>
<http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2009-12-21/19024/German%20hiker%20dies%20of%20heart%20attack>
<http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slug=1307831
<http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slug=1307831>>
<http://www.hikerhell.com/2008/12/hiker-dies-of-apparent-heart-attack-on-camelback-mountain-arizona/>
<http://m.missoulian.com/breaker/article_1e3fc4c4-0ff0-577f-868b-970792834d8c.html>
<http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12882985>
Expensive mountain bikes and riding accessories are not required....
--
Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)
hlil...@juno.com
> Exercise is fine, but it is stupid to do it at the risk of life and limb.
> Instead of cycling in the mountains, why not hike. Â You can get excellent
> exercise from hiking and at little or no risk to life and limb.
And your medical or exercise science credentials are just what? I'm
not a physician but am a first responder and have talked to physicians
and those with exercise science degrees. No reason a middle aged or
older person in good health should not exercise vigorously, in fact
there are many reasons such a person should do so. I'm 64, run
usually 5 miles per day or do interval training, bike, climb mountains
etc. The doc says my risk of heart attack is essentially zero and
encourages me to keep it up.
Mike Vandeman
He obviously hasn't thought much about the risks of mountain biking,
which is FAR more dangerous than hiking (see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb_dangerous).
You have the additional risks of high speed, less stability than when
walking, being higher off the ground, and trying to negotiate
unpredictable terrain, while at the same time (as mountain bikers
always CLAIM) "enjoying the scenery" (or was that last part a LIE,
which is more likely?).
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:e9d73fda-0f18-47e7...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
Mountain biking is particularly dangerous because of the potential for
accidents, especially for middle aged men. I don't even think mountain
biking is a particularly good cardiovascular activity. And of course it
harms the environment and discombobulates hikers. It is socially
unacceptable.
A little exercise is a good thing, a lot of excercise is crazy. All that a
sensible person should ever want is good health, not superman strength and
endurance. I just about die of laughter every time a runner drops dead of a
heart attack. In fact, look up the original Marathon. That runner also
dropped dead at the end of it.
Edward Dolan
"Paul O" <first....@company.com> wrote in message
news:hht2vo$4j2$1...@news.nems.noaa.gov...
> Mike Vandeman wrote, On 1/2/2010 2:11 PM:
>> So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
>> in action!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005129425
>>
>> Todd Johnston, 41
>> Four Seasons Spa & Pool owner and founder Todd Johnston was
>> children and loving his wife of 17 years, Vicki. He lived life to the
>> fullest and did everything with vigor and enthusiasm. After growing up
>> in Illinois, Todd grew to love the mountains of Idaho and the West. He
>> died Oct. 23 of heart failure while mountain biking with friends in
>> the desert near Moab, Utah.
>>
> Hiking causes heart attacks!
> <http://www.gazette.com/articles/incline-56531-rescue-manitou.html>
> <http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2009-12-21/19024/German%20hiker%20dies%20of%20heart%20attack>
> <http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slug=1307831
> <http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slug=1307831>>
> <http://www.hikerhell.com/2008/12/hiker-dies-of-apparent-heart-attack-on-camelback-mountain-arizona/>
> <http://m.missoulian.com/breaker/article_1e3fc4c4-0ff0-577f-868b-970792834d8c.html>
> <http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12882985>
>
> Expensive mountain bikes and riding accessories are not required....
I have been reading stories all of my life about hikers who get into trouble
with their treks and even die from them. Almost always it is case of error
in judgment on the part of the trekker. Hiking is not inherently dangerous
if you exercise common sense. Some folks are so out of shape they should
never attempt a hike no matter how easy. Better to start with just some
walking around town. Climbing mountains however is dangerous and I would
never think of doing it.
On the other hand, mountain biking is dangerous even if you have common
sense. It is an activity which encourages risk taking. Sooner or later,
there is the Devil to pay.
Mike Vandeman
> "Paul O" <first.d.l...@company.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hht2vo$4j2$1...@news.nems.noaa.gov...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike Vandeman wrote, On 1/2/2010 2:11 PM:
> >> So much for the alleged healthfulness of mountain biking.... Evolution
> >> in action!
>
> >> Mike
>
> >>http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005129425
>
> >> Todd Johnston, 41
> >> Four Seasons Spa & Pool owner and founder Todd Johnston was
> >> tremendously active—skiing, biking, playing ice hockey, raising
> >> children and loving his wife of 17 years, Vicki. He lived life to the
> >> fullest and did everything with vigor and enthusiasm. After growing up
> >> in Illinois, Todd grew to love the mountains of Idaho and the West. He
> >> died Oct. 23 of heart failure while mountain biking with friends in
> >> the desert near Moab, Utah.
>
> > Hiking causes heart attacks!
> > <http://www.gazette.com/articles/incline-56531-rescue-manitou.html>
> > <http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slu...
> > <http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910927&slu...>>
> > <http://www.hikerhell.com/2008/12/hiker-dies-of-apparent-heart-attack-...>
> > <http://m.missoulian.com/breaker/article_1e3fc4c4-0ff0-577f-868b-97079...>
> > <http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12882985>
>
> > Expensive mountain bikes and riding accessories are not required....
>
> I have been reading stories all of my life about hikers who get into trouble
> with their treks and even die from them. Almost always it is case of error
> in judgment on the part of the trekker. Hiking is not inherently dangerous
> if you exercise common sense. Some folks are so out of shape they should
> never attempt a hike no matter how easy. Better to start with just some
> walking around town. Climbing mountains however is dangerous and I would
> never think of doing it.
>
> On the other hand, mountain biking is dangerous even if you have common
> sense. It is an activity which encourages risk taking. Sooner or later,
> there is the Devil to pay.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is no significant exercise to be had on the downhill part of a
mountain bike trip. On the level portion, the exercise value is
minimal, because a bike is, first and formost, an ENERGY-SAVING
device. The bicycle is the most energy-efficient form of
transportation we know of. That leaves only the uphill portion for
exercise (which is generally extreme). Walking, on the other hand,
spreads the exertion more evenly across the entire trip. Hence, it is
less dangerous.
hlil...@juno.com
nacceptable.
>
> A little exercise is a good thing, a lot of excercise is crazy.
I ask again: And your medical or exercise science credentials are
just what?
hlil...@juno.com
> On the other hand, mountain biking is dangerous even if you have common
> sense. It is an activity which encourages risk taking. Sooner or later,
> there is the Devil to pay.
Life is dangerous, even if you have common sense. We just have to
decide for each activity if the rewards justify the risk. If you want
to confine yourself to walking you are quite free to do so. I chose
to ski, bike, climb mountains etc. My life, my choice and at the end
of life I expect to be able to say that I enjoyed it.
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:9446ac51-aaaa-4793...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
I inherited an excessive amount of good common sense from my mother. My
father was crazy like you.
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:614b7611-5c07-49dc...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
The fact remains that mountain biking is particularly dangerous. A single
snag can send you to your death. The Great Mike Vandeman posts messages on
RBS of hundreds of such events on a regular basis. If I were you, I would
read those posts and learn from them.
If you want an adrenalin rush, I suggest an amusement park. I understand
they have toys now that can give one quite a thrill.
Paul O
I hope that you are aware that you have chosen to argue with two of the
most notorious trolls on these news groups.
fuâ‹…tilâ‹…iâ‹…ty [fyoo-til-i-tee]
–noun, plural -ties for 2, 3.
1. the quality of being futile; ineffectiveness; uselessness.
2. a trifle or frivolity: the large collection of futilities that
clutter our minds.
3. a futile act or event.
Edward Dolan
> hlil...@juno.com wrote, On 1/5/2010 7:43 PM:
>> On Jan 4, 10:15 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On the other hand, mountain biking is dangerous even if you have common
>>> sense. It is an activity which encourages risk taking. Sooner or later,
>>> there is the Devil to pay.
>>>
>>
>> Life is dangerous, even if you have common sense. We just have to
>> decide for each activity if the rewards justify the risk. If you want
>> to confine yourself to walking you are quite free to do so. I chose
>> to ski, bike, climb mountains etc. My life, my choice and at the end
>> of life I expect to be able to say that I enjoyed it.
>>
> hlilly,
> I hope that you are aware that you have chosen to argue with two of the
> most notorious trolls on these news groups.
>
>
> -noun, plural -ties for 2, 3.
> 1. the quality of being futile; ineffectiveness; uselessness.
> 2. a trifle or frivolity: the large collection of futilities that clutter
> our minds.
> 3. a futile act or event.
Both the Great Mike Vandeman and I are reasonable and will listen to a
reasonable argument. But reason eludes mountain bikers because they are
purely testosterone driven. I suggest mountain bikers relieve themselves of
some of their testosterone by fucking off and then perhaps they will be able
to make a reasonable argument for their despicable sport.
hlil...@juno.com
>> just what are your credentials?
>
> I inherited an excessive amount of good common sense from my mother. My
> father was crazy like you.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
(Einstein)
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:8b861a1c-bb23-4951...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
For heaven's sakes, it is just the opposite of that. Teenagers have no sense
at all, common or otherwise. Their brains are not fully developed.
By the way, Einstein was an idiot on any subject except physics.
Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are lucky
enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read themselves
into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the species.
He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up my
mind about you yet.
Wolf Leverich
>
> By the way, Einstein was an idiot on any subject except physics.
Eh? Don't know anything about historical figures?
> Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are lucky
> enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
> exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read themselves
> into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the species.
> He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up my
> mind about you yet.
Ah, all of the sudden I understand. *You* are an idiot.
I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
Speaking of common sense, amazing about all those weapons
of mass destruction. And that banking deregulation thing
sure turned out well, didn't it?
Idiots. All idiots.
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
"Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhkaqmp....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
> On 2010-01-06, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> By the way, Einstein was an idiot on any subject except physics.
>
> Eh? Don't know anything about historical figures?
Einstein never seemed to be able to say whether there was a God or not. But
at least he had enough sense to flee Germany.
>> Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are lucky
>> enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
>> exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read
>> themselves
>> into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the
>> species.
>> He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up my
>> mind about you yet.
>
> Ah, all of the sudden I understand. *You* are an idiot.
>
> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
> Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
> waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
> crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
That is because you move in very small circles. Americans are right of
center and only an idiot like you would not know that.
> Speaking of common sense, amazing about all those weapons
> of mass destruction. And that banking deregulation thing
> sure turned out well, didn't it?
>
> Idiots. All idiots.
Don't be so hard on yourself. It is the human condition.
hlil...@juno.com
> > Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are lucky
> > enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
> > exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read themselves
> > into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the species.
> > He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up my
> > mind about you yet.
>
> Ah, all of the sudden I understand. Â *You* are an idiot.
Well, probably not an idiot in terms of IQ. More likely his
intellectual arrogance is such that he reads only by the light of his
own conceit. That causes people to create in their own minds a model
of what they think is true uncontaminated by reality.
> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
You need to get out more. There are several famous people of high
intelligence who are self-described conservatives, eg. Condi Rice,
Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, the late Milton Friedman etc. Though
I'm not famous and you don't really know me I am rather right of
center and all the testing when I was in school would put me in the
high intelligence category.
However this is not a political group so I suggest we end it here and
agree to give Dolan the treatment he deserves by ignoring his posts
henceforth.
hlil...@juno.com
> > I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
> > better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>
> You need to get out more. Â There are several famous people of high
> intelligence who are self-described conservatives, eg. Condi Rice,
> Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, the late Milton Friedman etc. Â Though
> I'm not famous and you don't really know me I am rather right of
> center and all the testing when I was in school would put me in the
> high intelligence category.
PS, if anyone doubts I'm right of center politically, you may peruse
my blog at
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:412c04aa-7d3a-4d7f...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 6, 9:02 pm, "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote:
> > Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are
> > lucky
> > enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
> > exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read
> > themselves
> > into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the
> > species.
> > He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up
> > my
> > mind about you yet.
>
> Ah, all of the sudden I understand. *You* are an idiot.
>>> Well, probably not an idiot in terms of IQ. More likely his
intellectual arrogance is such that he reads only by the light of his
own conceit. That causes people to create in their own minds a model
of what they think is true uncontaminated by reality.
I have created a persona for myself with regard to these newsgroups based on
the kind of intelligence that regularly displays itself. Anyone who attempts
to be serious on these newsgroups is unreal. An unmoderated newsgroup is
strictly a playground for idiots. Either get with it or get lost!
> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>>> You need to get out more. There are several famous people of high
intelligence who are self-described conservatives, eg. Condi Rice,
Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, the late Milton Friedman etc. Though
I'm not famous and you don't really know me I am rather right of
center and all the testing when I was in school would put me in the
high intelligence category.
>>> However this is not a political group so I suggest we end it here and
agree to give Dolan the treatment he deserves by ignoring his posts
henceforth.
Anyone who cannot take the heat should indeed get out of the kitchen.
Edward Dolan
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:e849ae1d-b4f5-4de2...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.hallillywhite.blogspot.com
For God's sakes, stop apologizing for being a conservative. It is these god
damn fucking liberal assholes who ought to be apologizing. All they ever
know how to do is to make a mess of everything. They can't even get a health
care reform bill right. Fuck 'em!
Wolf Leverich
>
> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhkaqmp....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>> On 2010-01-06, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> By the way, Einstein was an idiot on any subject except physics.
>>
>> Eh? Don't know anything about historical figures?
>
> Einstein never seemed to be able to say whether there was a God or not. But
> at least he had enough sense to flee Germany.
>
>>> Common sense only comes with age and a bit of experience if you are lucky
>>> enough to have had a parent who had some. All liberals, without any
>>> exceptions whatever, are devoid of common sense. They have read
>>> themselves
>>> into a kind of idiocy. I give you Tom Sherman as an example of the
>>> species.
>>> He is smart, but he absolutely has no common sense. I have not made up my
>>> mind about you yet.
>>
>> Ah, all of the sudden I understand. *You* are an idiot.
>>
>> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
>> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>> Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
>> waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
>> crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
>
> That is because you move in very small circles. Americans are right of
> center and only an idiot like you would not know that.
Yup, of course. And that's why Obama, a liberal, beat McCain,
a right-of-center candidate, in pretty much a landslide.
Idiot.
We'd be yet another European socialist state if not for the
convenient fact that Democrats don't vote and, in fact, are
such pansies that they let us disenfranchise them en masse.
The number of rightwing wackjobs is about 20% of the country by
headcount. We've managed to rule for years because we vote, we
disenfranchise the bad guys, and rich bastards fund us.
But don't buy into this "Americans are right of center" crap
unless you want to spend the rest of your life with Obamas
as President. We're a small minority, we vote, we prevent them
from voting, rich guys fund us, and we win.
Love, B.
Wolf Leverich
Yup, boy, the liberals sure made a mess of Iraq, and goddam
them for the invasiveness of the Patriot Act, and this whole
economic mess is their fault.
Jeez.
Look, here's Reality 101. "Liberals" aren't always wrong,
and "conservatives" aren't always right. In particular,
since the idiots' wing has gained ascendancy in the Republican
Party, our batting average has pretty much sucked dead lizard
entrails.
It's about time that the adults sent the idiots back to their
NASCAR, and stopped the party from doing stupid shit like
invading the wrong countries, turning the government loose to
read all our e-mails, deregulating rapacious bastards who can
(and just did) make a happy fortune by crashing the country's
financial system, and so on.
And we gotta knock off bullshit crap like the country is
center right, and get back to the fundamentals of turning our
people out to vote and keeping the Blacks and other Democratic
constituencies from making it to the polls.
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
>>> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
>>> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>>> Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
>>> waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
>>> crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
>>
>> That is because you move in very small circles. Americans are right of
>> center and only an idiot like you would not know that.
>
> Yup, of course. And that's why Obama, a liberal, beat McCain,
> a right-of-center candidate, in pretty much a landslide.
We conservatives hated McCain. He was the pick of the liberal mass media,
not conservatives.
> Idiot.
>
> We'd be yet another European socialist state if not for the
> convenient fact that Democrats don't vote and, in fact, are
> such pansies that they let us disenfranchise them en masse.
>
> The number of rightwing wackjobs is about 20% of the country by
> headcount. We've managed to rule for years because we vote, we
> disenfranchise the bad guys, and rich bastards fund us.
>
> But don't buy into this "Americans are right of center" crap
> unless you want to spend the rest of your life with Obamas
> as President. We're a small minority, we vote, we prevent them
> from voting, rich guys fund us, and we win.
Ah, a conspiracy nut job. The far left is wacko and most likely insane.
Edward Dolan
>> For God's sakes, stop apologizing for being a conservative. It is these
>> god
>> damn fucking liberal assholes who ought to be apologizing. All they ever
>> know how to do is to make a mess of everything. They can't even get a
>> health
>> care reform bill right. Fuck 'em!
>
> Yup, boy, the liberals sure made a mess of Iraq, and goddam
> them for the invasiveness of the Patriot Act, and this whole
> economic mess is their fault.
Iraq may well end up on our side in the war against Islamic terrorism
because Bush had the good sense to change that regime at very little cost to
us. The economic mess was the end result of Americans spending more than
they had to spend. That is ever the reward of spendthrifts. Obama is only
going to make matters worse.
I only wish Cheney had been president instead of Bush. He is a real ass
kicker, not a pretend ass kicker. Poor Obama can't even find his own ass.
Everyone in the world is going to kick his sorry ass. Iran is already doing
it.
[...]
Wolf Leverich
>
> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhkc76t....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
> [...]
>>>> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
>>>> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>>>> Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
>>>> waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
>>>> crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
>>>
>>> That is because you move in very small circles. Americans are right of
>>> center and only an idiot like you would not know that.
>>
>> Yup, of course. And that's why Obama, a liberal, beat McCain,
>> a right-of-center candidate, in pretty much a landslide.
>
> We conservatives hated McCain. He was the pick of the liberal mass media,
> not conservatives.
>>
>> Idiot.
And goodie for you. And you all voted for Obama, or stayed
home? Idiot.
What happened is that Democratic voters who usually are too
lazy to vote actually showed up at the polls, and we got
creamed.
This is why we need to keep the Blacks and other liberal
constituencies away from the polls. They outnumber us.
By a lot.
>>
>> We'd be yet another European socialist state if not for the
>> convenient fact that Democrats don't vote and, in fact, are
>> such pansies that they let us disenfranchise them en masse.
>>
>> The number of rightwing wackjobs is about 20% of the country by
>> headcount. We've managed to rule for years because we vote, we
>> disenfranchise the bad guys, and rich bastards fund us.
>>
>> But don't buy into this "Americans are right of center" crap
>> unless you want to spend the rest of your life with Obamas
>> as President. We're a small minority, we vote, we prevent them
>> from voting, rich guys fund us, and we win.
>
> Ah, a conspiracy nut job. The far left is wacko and most likely insane.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Republican activist since Barry Goldwater. I just don't
come from the idiots' wing of the party.
You do. Go watch NASCAR and burn crosses on your Black
neighbors' lawns or whatever turns you on. We'll be better
off without you. (Just keep showing up at the polls.)
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhkc76t....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>>> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
>> [...]
>>>>> I literally do not know a single person today of normal or
>>>>> better intelligence who self-describes as conservative.
>>>>> Everybody of moderate or better intelligence is in hiding
>>>>> waiting for the idiots to go back to NASCAR and burning
>>>>> crosses on the lawns of their unfortunate Black neighbors.
>>>>
>>>> That is because you move in very small circles. Americans are right of
>>>> center and only an idiot like you would not know that.
>>>
>>> Yup, of course. And that's why Obama, a liberal, beat McCain,
>>> a right-of-center candidate, in pretty much a landslide.
>>
>> We conservatives hated McCain. He was the pick of the liberal mass media,
>> not conservatives.
>>>
>>> Idiot.
>
> And goodie for you. And you all voted for Obama, or stayed
> home? Idiot.
Nope, I held my nose and voted for McCain. After all, I am not a
liberal-socialist-communist like Mr. Sherman.
> What happened is that Democratic voters who usually are too
> lazy to vote actually showed up at the polls, and we got
> creamed.
Blacks vote overwhelmingly Dem no matter what. Most Jews also vote Dem for
some strange reason.
> This is why we need to keep the Blacks and other liberal
> constituencies away from the polls. They outnumber us.
> By a lot.
The country is center right, not center left.
[...]
> Republican activist since Barry Goldwater. I just don't
> come from the idiots' wing of the party.
Their day has come and gone. It is now time for conservatives to take
charge.
> You do. Go watch NASCAR and burn crosses on your Black
> neighbors' lawns or whatever turns you on. We'll be better
> off without you. (Just keep showing up at the polls.)
The folks who like NASCAR and your Blacks are as alien to me as you are. I
actually have more in common with Tom Sherman (a most notorious
liberal-socialist-communist) than I do with them - or you for that matter.
Wolf Leverich
>
> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhkc7tj....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> [...]
>>> For God's sakes, stop apologizing for being a conservative. It is these
>>> god
>>> damn fucking liberal assholes who ought to be apologizing. All they ever
>>> know how to do is to make a mess of everything. They can't even get a
>>> health
>>> care reform bill right. Fuck 'em!
>>
>> Yup, boy, the liberals sure made a mess of Iraq, and goddam
>> them for the invasiveness of the Patriot Act, and this whole
>> economic mess is their fault.
>
> Iraq may well end up on our side in the war against Islamic terrorism
> because Bush had the good sense to change that regime at very little cost to
> us. The economic mess was the end result of Americans spending more than
> they had to spend. That is ever the reward of spendthrifts. Obama is only
> going to make matters worse.
Idiot, idiot, and more idiot.
The original Baathist regime was a secular Stalinist
organization. The last thing on Earth they would support
was Islamic fundamentalism.
What we're gonna leave behind is a Shiite almost-Iran.
Prolly with Sharia law.
Great progress that was.
And "very little cost"? Tell that to 4373 dead soldiers,
and to some tens of thousands with serious physical or
psychological problems. You're not just an idiot, you
obviously think our troops are shit.
And more than $2 trillion in long-term costs from Iraq alone.
Dunno about you, but I wouldn't ordinarily characterize that
as "very little cost".
And the economic mess was caused by deregulated, too-large-to-
fail banks making bad Las Vegas bets. There's a reason why,
even in the midst of the worst recession since the Great
Depression, personal bankrupcies are being filed by well under
1% of consumers but 100% of the banks are on life support in
the form of dozens of explicit and implicit Federal subsidies.
And, based on history since 1960, your remark about Obama is
correct but pretty much misses the point. When does the
deficit *really* grow? Under Republicans. Look at the
historical time series.
Look, STUPID, *we* just screwed up. We screwed up by being
stupid and drifting away from Republican principles. We need
to salute the fact that Bush was a straight-up disaster and
figure out how not to do that again.
> I only wish Cheney had been president instead of Bush. He is a real ass
> kicker, not a pretend ass kicker. Poor Obama can't even find his own ass.
> Everyone in the world is going to kick his sorry ass. Iran is already doing
> it.
> [...]
Right. You wanna replace a drunken, indolent draft-dodger
who managed to at least squeak through Yale with another
draft-dodger who failed to make it through Yale and who is
so stupid and irresponsible that he drinks a few beers,
picks up a gun, and then goes and shoots a friend in the face.
You want a draft-dodging college failure with a drinking
problem and a lack of personal responsiblity running your
country.
Wow.
Did your mother drop you, or did you just come out of the
womb with a serious intelligence deficit?
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Love, Wolf.
Wolf Leverich
Are you insane? By definition, Obama is where the country *is*.
Is Obama center right? What do words mean to you?
It is possible to have a consistent center right government in
a center left country if you vote and you prevent the left from
doing so. We have done that for years. We failed in 2008.
We will succeed in the future as long as we stay grounded in
reality and understand that there's more of them than us, and
we win by voting and by keeping them from voting.
One of my biggest nightmares is that our people start believing
this center-right hogwash and then failing to vote in the same
way the Democrats do. If we voted like they do, we'd never win
anywhere outside of Utah ...
>> Republican activist since Barry Goldwater. I just don't
>> come from the idiots' wing of the party.
>
> Their day has come and gone. It is now time for conservatives to take
> charge.
No, you mean "idiots to take charge".
Conservatives don't run deficits.
Conservatives don't expand Medicare: they're pledged
to kill it.
Conservatives don't waste money on pointless foreign
wars.
You people aren't conservatives: you're idiots. Stop
substituting stupidity for policy in my party.
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
But they were supporting it. But other than that, there were many other
reasons to take out that regime.
> What we're gonna leave behind is a Shiite almost-Iran.
> Prolly with Sharia law.
>
> Great progress that was.
Not necessarily. After all, there is a sizeable Sunni and Kurdish population
that cannot be ignored. Also the Iraqi Shiites will not cater to Iran.
> And "very little cost"? Tell that to 4373 dead soldiers,
> and to some tens of thousands with serious physical or
> psychological problems. You're not just an idiot, you
> obviously think our troops are shit.
Nope, like I said, very little cost. Read your history of WWI and WWII to
get an idea of what true wars cost. The Iraq War was over in a matter of a
few weeks. The insurgency was more a police operation than a war.
> And more than $2 trillion in long-term costs from Iraq alone.
> Dunno about you, but I wouldn't ordinarily characterize that
> as "very little cost".
But I would. See what Obama and the Dems are spending now in comparison.
> And the economic mess was caused by deregulated, too-large-to-
> fail banks making bad Las Vegas bets. There's a reason why,
> even in the midst of the worst recession since the Great
> Depression, personal bankrupcies are being filed by well under
> 1% of consumers but 100% of the banks are on life support in
> the form of dozens of explicit and implicit Federal subsidies.
Even so, do not the folks who were getting those loans not have any
responsibility? Let's face it, it was a bubble in the economy brought on by
generalized greed.
> And, based on history since 1960, your remark about Obama is
> correct but pretty much misses the point. When does the
> deficit *really* grow? Under Republicans. Look at the
> historical time series.
Bush was not my kind of conservative at all. He also wanted to admit
Mexicans into the US no matter the laws.
> Look, STUPID, *we* just screwed up. We screwed up by being
> stupid and drifting away from Republican principles. We need
> to salute the fact that Bush was a straight-up disaster and
> figure out how not to do that again.
Bush will go down in history as a great president for taking on the Islamic
terrorists. He protected the country when it was at risk. Who knows what
Obama is going to do about the problem.
>> I only wish Cheney had been president instead of Bush. He is a real ass
>> kicker, not a pretend ass kicker. Poor Obama can't even find his own ass.
>> Everyone in the world is going to kick his sorry ass. Iran is already
>> doing
>> it.
>> [...]
>
> Right. You wanna replace a drunken, indolent draft-dodger
> who managed to at least squeak through Yale with another
> draft-dodger who failed to make it through Yale and who is
> so stupid and irresponsible that he drinks a few beers,
> picks up a gun, and then goes and shoots a friend in the face.
I prefer that presidents not ever be in the military at all. Those who have
been have not turned out to be great presidents. I give you Grant and
Eisenhower as examples. Most commentators at the time regarded Goldwater as
being incredibly stupid.
> You want a draft-dodging college failure with a drinking
> problem and a lack of personal responsiblity running your
> country.
Bush got acceptable grades while at Yale. You and I would most likely flunk
out.
> Wow.
>
> Did your mother drop you, or did you just come out of the
> womb with a serious intelligence deficit?
Insults roll off me like water off a duck's back.
A Bush-Cheney hater like you could not possibly be a Repub. Get on over and
kiss Obama's ass why don't you!
Edward Dolan
>> The country is center right, not center left.
>> [...]
>
> Are you insane? By definition, Obama is where the country *is*.
> Is Obama center right? What do words mean to you?
Obama is not where the country is. He is a mere blip on the radar screen of
presidents.
> It is possible to have a consistent center right government in
> a center left country if you vote and you prevent the left from
> doing so. We have done that for years. We failed in 2008.
>
> We will succeed in the future as long as we stay grounded in
> reality and understand that there's more of them than us, and
> we win by voting and by keeping them from voting.
>
> One of my biggest nightmares is that our people start believing
> this center-right hogwash and then failing to vote in the same
> way the Democrats do. If we voted like they do, we'd never win
> anywhere outside of Utah ...
I do think the country is ripe for more welfare programs, especially health
care reform. It should have a public option of course and ideally it would
be a single payer system like they have in Canada and Britain. But there is
no appetite for socialism in this country.
Old style Repubs and old style Dems cannot win anymore. The country has
moved beyond that. It is now liberal vs. conservative. Woe betide any Repub
who thinks he can be a moderate. The Dems own that territory. Repubs must
become unabashedly conservatives if they ever want to win at the polls.
>>> Republican activist since Barry Goldwater. I just don't
>>> come from the idiots' wing of the party.
>>
>> Their day has come and gone. It is now time for conservatives to take
>> charge.
>
> No, you mean "idiots to take charge".
>
> Conservatives don't run deficits.
>
> Conservatives don't expand Medicare: they're pledged
> to kill it.
>
> Conservatives don't waste money on pointless foreign
> wars.
I think you are more libertarian than you are Repub. Repubs (conservatives)
do all those things that you say they don't do. If they didn't do them, they
would never win an election anywhere, except like you said, in Utah. God
bless all those retrograde Mormons.
Wolf Leverich
Cites?
And as far as reasons to take out that regime, those
same reasons would lead us to take out dozens of other
regimes, including regimes we ourselves installed in
places like Chile.
>> What we're gonna leave behind is a Shiite almost-Iran.
>> Prolly with Sharia law.
>>
>> Great progress that was.
>
> Not necessarily. After all, there is a sizeable Sunni and Kurdish population
> that cannot be ignored. Also the Iraqi Shiites will not cater to Iran.
Yes, and Tinkerbell may come down and scatter pixie dust
across the country.
We've disarmed the Sunnis. A majority of the country is
Shiite. They have explicit support from across the
Iranian border.
The fact that Iraqi Shiites are prolly not interested in
becoming Iranian pawns does not mean that they're gonna
be a force for modern secularism. Sharia isn't peculiar
to Tehran.
>> And "very little cost"? Tell that to 4373 dead soldiers,
>> and to some tens of thousands with serious physical or
>> psychological problems. You're not just an idiot, you
>> obviously think our troops are shit.
>
> Nope, like I said, very little cost. Read your history of WWI and WWII to
> get an idea of what true wars cost. The Iraq War was over in a matter of a
> few weeks. The insurgency was more a police operation than a war.
Idiot.
4373 dead is 4373 dead. For a negative result.
>> And more than $2 trillion in long-term costs from Iraq alone.
>> Dunno about you, but I wouldn't ordinarily characterize that
>> as "very little cost".
>
> But I would. See what Obama and the Dems are spending now in comparison.
Actually, if you untangled the dead hand of Bush's fiscal policies,
HCR is the big recurring cost and at this point it looks like it's
at least tied to compensating tax increases, which means it's
deficit neutral.
Things like Bush's wars, Bush's tax cuts for the rich, and Bush's
expansion of Medicare were not matched with tax increases, so the
last thing they were is deficit neutral.
I don't know how to score TARP, all the implicit subsidies to the
banks, and the stimulus package. TARP and the subsidies were done
by Bush to clean up a Republican-caused mess. Part of the stimulus
prolly ought to be charged to Bush, but Obama clearly didn't choose
the most-bang-for-the-buck stimulus mechanisms and so prolly ought
to be charged for the cost of the program beyond what the most
efficient stimulus would have been.
>> And the economic mess was caused by deregulated, too-large-to-
>> fail banks making bad Las Vegas bets. There's a reason why,
>> even in the midst of the worst recession since the Great
>> Depression, personal bankrupcies are being filed by well under
>> 1% of consumers but 100% of the banks are on life support in
>> the form of dozens of explicit and implicit Federal subsidies.
>
> Even so, do not the folks who were getting those loans not have any
> responsibility? Let's face it, it was a bubble in the economy brought on by
> generalized greed.
Idiot.
The bad loans themselves were a (relatively) trivial part
of the problem. Estimates for end-of-the-day losses on
subprimes are around $400 billion, which in real terms in
not a whole lot scarier than the savings-and-loan crisis
from 20ish years ago.
The actual cause of the banking crisis were CDOs and their
friends, where you had third parties making literal casino
bets on whether loans held by other people would go bad or
not. Unwinding the casino bets, along with uncertainty
about how big or how bad the bets actually were, is what
provoked the credit crisis.
>> And, based on history since 1960, your remark about Obama is
>> correct but pretty much misses the point. When does the
>> deficit *really* grow? Under Republicans. Look at the
>> historical time series.
>
> Bush was not my kind of conservative at all. He also wanted to admit
> Mexicans into the US no matter the laws.
>
>> Look, STUPID, *we* just screwed up. We screwed up by being
>> stupid and drifting away from Republican principles. We need
>> to salute the fact that Bush was a straight-up disaster and
>> figure out how not to do that again.
>
> Bush will go down in history as a great president for taking on the Islamic
> terrorists. He protected the country when it was at risk. Who knows what
> Obama is going to do about the problem.
The stupid generally don't get the opportunity to write
history.
Bush will be remembered as an unimpressive President who
pointlessly invaded Iraq and debased the economy.
>>> I only wish Cheney had been president instead of Bush. He is a real ass
>>> kicker, not a pretend ass kicker. Poor Obama can't even find his own ass.
>>> Everyone in the world is going to kick his sorry ass. Iran is already
>>> doing
>>> it.
>>> [...]
>>
>> Right. You wanna replace a drunken, indolent draft-dodger
>> who managed to at least squeak through Yale with another
>> draft-dodger who failed to make it through Yale and who is
>> so stupid and irresponsible that he drinks a few beers,
>> picks up a gun, and then goes and shoots a friend in the face.
>
> I prefer that presidents not ever be in the military at all. Those who have
> been have not turned out to be great presidents. I give you Grant and
> Eisenhower as examples. Most commentators at the time regarded Goldwater as
> being incredibly stupid.
What can I say? If you think draft-dodging is a qualification
for being President ...
>> You want a draft-dodging college failure with a drinking
>> problem and a lack of personal responsiblity running your
>> country.
>
> Bush got acceptable grades while at Yale. You and I would most likely flunk
> out.
I graduated from Harvard. With departmental honors. I've
seen Bush's transcript. Singularly unimpressive, even for
a legacy at a school populated by Harvard rejects.
>> Wow.
>>
>> Did your mother drop you, or did you just come out of the
>> womb with a serious intelligence deficit?
>
> Insults roll off me like water off a duck's back.
>
> A Bush-Cheney hater like you could not possibly be a Repub. Get on over and
> kiss Obama's ass why don't you!
You bet I'm a Republican. Fiscal conservative, pro-
business, anti-socialism, the whole enchilada. Just
not stupid.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>>> aka
>>> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhkcgbd....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>>> The original Baathist regime was a secular Stalinist
>>> organization. The last thing on Earth they would support
>>> was Islamic fundamentalism.
>>
>> But they were supporting it. But other than that, there were many other
>> reasons to take out that regime.
>
> Cites?
It was believed universally at the time that Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction. That was more than reason enough to change the regime.
> And as far as reasons to take out that regime, those
> same reasons would lead us to take out dozens of other
> regimes, including regimes we ourselves installed in
> places like Chile.
Chile does not sit on top of the world resources of oil. I think the US
should be the world's cop, but I recognize that most Americans will not
support that position.
[...]
> We've disarmed the Sunnis. A majority of the country is
> Shiite. They have explicit support from across the
> Iranian border.
The Iraqi Shiites are nationalists more than they are Shiites.
> The fact that Iraqi Shiites are prolly not interested in
> becoming Iranian pawns does not mean that they're gonna
> be a force for modern secularism. Sharia isn't peculiar
> to Tehran.
But the Shiites in Iraq are stuck with the Sunnis and the Kurds. That will
prevent any extremism.
>>> And "very little cost"? Tell that to 4373 dead soldiers,
>>> and to some tens of thousands with serious physical or
>>> psychological problems. You're not just an idiot, you
>>> obviously think our troops are shit.
>>
>> Nope, like I said, very little cost. Read your history of WWI and WWII to
>> get an idea of what true wars cost. The Iraq War was over in a matter of
>> a
>> few weeks. The insurgency was more a police operation than a war.
>
> Idiot.
>
> 4373 dead is 4373 dead. For a negative result.
God Damn it all the way to Hell and back! Quit fucking around and look up
the casualties of the main battles of WWI and WWII. 4000 dead is next to
nothing in a nation of 300 million. I think 40,000 people die in this
country every year of motor vehicle accidents. There has got to be something
wrong with the way your brain functions!
[...]
>>> And the economic mess was caused by deregulated, too-large-to-
>>> fail banks making bad Las Vegas bets. There's a reason why,
>>> even in the midst of the worst recession since the Great
>>> Depression, personal bankrupcies are being filed by well under
>>> 1% of consumers but 100% of the banks are on life support in
>>> the form of dozens of explicit and implicit Federal subsidies.
>>
>> Even so, do not the folks who were getting those loans not have any
>> responsibility? Let's face it, it was a bubble in the economy brought on
>> by
>> generalized greed.
>
> Idiot.
>
> The bad loans themselves were a (relatively) trivial part
> of the problem. Estimates for end-of-the-day losses on
> subprimes are around $400 billion, which in real terms in
> not a whole lot scarier than the savings-and-loan crisis
> from 20ish years ago.
>
> The actual cause of the banking crisis were CDOs and their
> friends, where you had third parties making literal casino
> bets on whether loans held by other people would go bad or
> not. Unwinding the casino bets, along with uncertainty
> about how big or how bad the bets actually were, is what
> provoked the credit crisis.
Nope, the crisis was initiated by all the bad loans (mortgages), especially
those by the two government backed loan agencies. Bush tired to correct the
situation on several occasions, but a liberal Congress prevented any
reforms. They wanted the poor to own their own houses.
>>> And, based on history since 1960, your remark about Obama is
>>> correct but pretty much misses the point. When does the
>>> deficit *really* grow? Under Republicans. Look at the
>>> historical time series.
It grows even more under Dems. Clinton was stuck with a Repub Congress which
reined him in.
[...]
> Bush will be remembered as an unimpressive President who
> pointlessly invaded Iraq and debased the economy.
Bush will be remembered as the president who took on the Islamic terrorists
and began their destruction. No one can debase the economy like free
spending Dems. No comparison at all.
[...]
>> Bush got acceptable grades while at Yale. You and I would most likely
>> flunk
>> out.
>
> I graduated from Harvard. With departmental honors. I've
> seen Bush's transcript. Singularly unimpressive, even for
> a legacy at a school populated by Harvard rejects.
Bush got gentlemanly C's. That is good enough for anyone. Most scholars are
a pain in the ass. Wilson was an intellectual and one of our worst
presidents.
[...]
> You bet I'm a Republican. Fiscal conservative, pro-
> business, anti-socialism, the whole enchilada. Just
> not stupid.
You've got to win elections. That is the main thing. I am everything you say
you are, but I make allowances for the general welfare. Not every one can
succeed in a dog eat dog kind of society. The welfare state is coming to
this country whether you like it or not. Too many people are not getting a
slice of the pie.
Wolf Leverich
>
> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhkcmjq....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>> On 2010-01-07, Edward Dolan <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Wolf Leverich" <leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnhkcgbd....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
> [...]
>>>> The original Baathist regime was a secular Stalinist
>>>> organization. The last thing on Earth they would support
>>>> was Islamic fundamentalism.
>>>
>>> But they were supporting it. But other than that, there were many other
>>> reasons to take out that regime.
>>
>> Cites?
>
> It was believed universally at the time that Iraq had weapons of mass
> destruction. That was more than reason enough to change the regime.
"Universally?" In the intelligence community? I don't think so.
Show some cites.
There was confusion among the public and even Congresscritters,
because the administration was absorbing all the uncertainty.
(Which is intelligence-community-talk that translates roughly
to "lying" in English.)
###
>> And as far as reasons to take out that regime, those
>> same reasons would lead us to take out dozens of other
>> regimes, including regimes we ourselves installed in
>> places like Chile.
>
> Chile does not sit on top of the world resources of oil. I think the US
> should be the world's cop, but I recognize that most Americans will not
> support that position.
> [...]
Chile just has copper ... ;)
>> We've disarmed the Sunnis. A majority of the country is
>> Shiite. They have explicit support from across the
>> Iranian border.
>
> The Iraqi Shiites are nationalists more than they are Shiites.
Cites?
###
>> The fact that Iraqi Shiites are prolly not interested in
>> becoming Iranian pawns does not mean that they're gonna
>> be a force for modern secularism. Sharia isn't peculiar
>> to Tehran.
>
> But the Shiites in Iraq are stuck with the Sunnis and the Kurds. That will
> prevent any extremism.
Eh? Like it currently prevents bombings?
###
>>>> And "very little cost"? Tell that to 4373 dead soldiers,
>>>> and to some tens of thousands with serious physical or
>>>> psychological problems. You're not just an idiot, you
>>>> obviously think our troops are shit.
>>>
>>> Nope, like I said, very little cost. Read your history of WWI and WWII to
>>> get an idea of what true wars cost. The Iraq War was over in a matter of
>>> a
>>> few weeks. The insurgency was more a police operation than a war.
>>
>> Idiot.
>>
>> 4373 dead is 4373 dead. For a negative result.
>
> God Damn it all the way to Hell and back! Quit fucking around and look up
> the casualties of the main battles of WWI and WWII. 4000 dead is next to
> nothing in a nation of 300 million. I think 40,000 people die in this
> country every year of motor vehicle accidents. There has got to be something
> wrong with the way your brain functions!
> [...]
And so, by your argument, the deaths in 9/11 were next to nothing.
So remind me why we launched this war?
###
Cites?
If you look at what happened, you're dealing with elephant-rabbit
stew. The losses due to subprime mortgages are going to be, after
the dust settles, about $400 billion. That's the rabbit. The
elephant is a bunch of bad Las Vegas bets, where there's an issue
even sorting out quite how bad or where the bets are. You don't
have the Federal government injectiong $13-17T of liquidity into
a system that just has an easily-understood $400B problem.
###
>>>> And, based on history since 1960, your remark about Obama is
>>>> correct but pretty much misses the point. When does the
>>>> deficit *really* grow? Under Republicans. Look at the
>>>> historical time series.
>
> It grows even more under Dems. Clinton was stuck with a Repub Congress which
> reined him in.
> [...]
Cites?
You're a moron. If you check the historical time series,
you will observe that the debt has been growing faster under
Republicans than Democrats for the last 50 years or so.
This is, btw, a highly lamentable bit of reality. Maybe
Nixon should be given a pass because he was stuck with
LBJ's war and new social programs, but there's just no
excuse for Reagan or GWB.
###
>> Bush will be remembered as an unimpressive President who
>> pointlessly invaded Iraq and debased the economy.
>
> Bush will be remembered as the president who took on the Islamic terrorists
> and began their destruction. No one can debase the economy like free
> spending Dems. No comparison at all.
> [...]
"Free spending Dems"? That is, in fact, oxymoronic since LBJ.
"Free spending Republicans" is the practical reality since 1968.
Look at the time series for deficit growth, dummy.
###
>>> Bush got acceptable grades while at Yale. You and I would most likely
>>> flunk
>>> out.
>>
>> I graduated from Harvard. With departmental honors. I've
>> seen Bush's transcript. Singularly unimpressive, even for
>> a legacy at a school populated by Harvard rejects.
>
> Bush got gentlemanly C's. That is good enough for anyone. Most scholars are
> a pain in the ass. Wilson was an intellectual and one of our worst
> presidents.
> [...]
"Gentlemanly Cs" went away before Bush was there -- grade
inflation, dude. I know with certainty, because I was at
Harvard not so long after GWB was at Yale. "Cs" in graduate
school were literally failing grades then, and "Cs" in an
undergraduate class were prolly the lowest grade a faculty
member would give anyone who was vaguely present.
And yeah, some scholars can be pains in the asses. People
who understand what's going on tend to be intolerant of
opinionated idiots who don't.
###
>> You bet I'm a Republican. Fiscal conservative, pro-
>> business, anti-socialism, the whole enchilada. Just
>> not stupid.
>
> You've got to win elections. That is the main thing. I am everything you say
> you are, but I make allowances for the general welfare. Not every one can
> succeed in a dog eat dog kind of society. The welfare state is coming to
> this country whether you like it or not. Too many people are not getting a
> slice of the pie.
Eh?
We'll see.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>>>>> aka
>>>>> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Love, Wolf.
Edward Dolan
>> It was believed universally at the time that Iraq had weapons of mass
>> destruction. That was more than reason enough to change the regime.
>
> "Universally?" In the intelligence community? I don't think so.
> Show some cites.
I hope you are not going to tell me that only you knew otherwise.
[...]
>> The Iraqi Shiites are nationalists more than they are Shiites.
>
> Cites?
Why have they not already welcomed Iran into their territory?
[...]
>> God Damn it all the way to Hell and back! Quit fucking around and look up
>> the casualties of the main battles of WWI and WWII. 4000 dead is next to
>> nothing in a nation of 300 million. I think 40,000 people die in this
>> country every year of motor vehicle accidents. There has got to be
>> something
>> wrong with the way your brain functions!
>> [...]
>
> And so, by your argument, the deaths in 9/11 were next to nothing.
Almost next to nothing, just like Pearl Harbor was next to nothing in terms
of individual deaths. It is what it portends that matters.
> So remind me why we launched this war?
We, along with the entire world, thought Saddam had weapons of mass
destruction. And he was stupid enough to want us to think exactly that.
[...]
> You're a moron. If you check the historical time series,
> you will observe that the debt has been growing faster under
> Republicans than Democrats for the last 50 years or so.
Did not Johnson vastly expand the government and the spending that went
along with it.
> This is, btw, a highly lamentable bit of reality. Maybe
> Nixon should be given a pass because he was stuck with
> LBJ's war and new social programs, but there's just no
> excuse for Reagan or GWB.
I will admit you have a point. But deficit spending is not the be all and
end all of either of those two administrations. Reagan won the Cold War and
Bush kicked Islamic ass. That counts for more with me than anything else.
[...]
>> Bush got gentlemanly C's. That is good enough for anyone. Most scholars
>> are
>> a pain in the ass. Wilson was an intellectual and one of our worst
>> presidents.
>> [...]
>
> "Gentlemanly Cs" went away before Bush was there -- grade
> inflation, dude. I know with certainty, because I was at
> Harvard not so long after GWB was at Yale. "Cs" in graduate
> school were literally failing grades then, and "Cs" in an
> undergraduate class were prolly the lowest grade a faculty
> member would give anyone who was vaguely present.
Like I said, gentlemanly C's are good enough for anyone except scholars.
> And yeah, some scholars can be pains in the asses. People
> who understand what's going on tend to be intolerant of
> opinionated idiots who don't.
So very many scholars do not know how to come to a conclusion. They get lost
in trivia. Politicians know what matters and that is why they rule for
better or worse.
[...]
Al Munday
news:slrnhkaqmp....@askin-17.linkpendium.com:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great
deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the
greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others,
Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of
a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is
in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003