Fake "Green" Work
Eric Gisin
http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/12/29/fake-%E2%80%9Cgreen%E2%80%9D-work/
December 29, 2009 11:45 AM EST by John Stossel
USA Today reports that "green" energy is the popular new field at universities around the country:
Nationwide, more than 100 majors, minors or certificates were created this year in energy and
sustainability-focused programs at colleges ... Students want the courses, and employers want the
trained students ...
Oh yes, students are obsessed with "sustainability." When I speak at colleges, there's always a
fuss about it. What's not taught is that private businesses like factory farms are most concerned
about sustainability. Their livelihood depends on it. If they use too much pesticide or fertilizer,
or deplete the soil, they're out of work. But students think "sustainability" has something to do
with Michelle Obama's White House garden.
It's another reason that the politicians' push to get more kids to attend college is a giant
mistake. College is a rip-off for many students. A recent survey asked thousands of students: Would
you go to your college again? About 40 percent said no. Silly government-subsidized
"sustainability" courses don't help students find lasting work that will allow them to pay off
their huge college loans.
The "green" jobs that await students are mostly government-funded make-work.
Illinois State University in Normal, Ill... has 65 majors in renewable energy, a program started in
2008 with help from a $1 million Department of Energy grant. The program has "more students wanting
in than we can handle," says Richard Boser, chair of the Department of Technology. Nearby
employers, including those in wind energy, hope to hire future graduates, Boser says.
So he says. But Minnesota Public Radio reported this month that one stimulus-funded weatherization
training program in Minneapolis graduated 130 students -- but only 19 have found jobs.
Even if USA Today is right, and the green energy graduates will find work. It's not necessarily a
good thing, because the jobs will be mostly funded by the taxpayer -- and won't really contribute
to society's wealth. Creating "green jobs" may be a mantra on the left. But when government creates
the jobs, they're little better than welfare.
One provision in the stimulus bill promises that the government will fund 30 percent of the cost of
new wind farms. According to the EIA, wind energy receives 13 times more in subsidies per unit of
energy produced than traditional fossil fuel suppliers.
Then there are the hydrogen fuel experiments. Cash-strapped California recently bought hydrogen
busses that cost 30 times more than regular busses to operate.
I got a free golf cart thanks to government using your tax dollars to subsidize "electric vehicles".
The subsidy increases sales, so Golf car companies will hire some extra employees, yet Americans
will be poorer than if we had been allowed to spend our tax money on the items we really wanted.
matt sykes
> Has anyone seen a working hydrogen bus? Vancouver plans to use some for the Olympics.
>
Nice aeroport has quite a few biofuel busses.
I M @ good guy
wrote:
>Has anyone seen a working hydrogen bus? Vancouver plans to use some for the Olympics.
>
>http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/12/29/fake-%E2%80%9Cgreen%E2%80%9D-work/
I am pretty sure one runs on a nearby route, paid
for by a government grant to the city, the top looks
cluttered up with protrusions, and I think it cost about
five times what a regular bus would cost.
I don't know how they would fill the tanks,
at 5000 PSI the tank is restricted to about 12
or 15 inches in diameter due to material "belt"
strength.
Maybe each big city can afford one to
satisfy the grapevine.
$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto
> Has anyone seen a working hydrogen bus? Vancouver plans to use some for the Olympics.
>
>
> December 29, 2009 11:45 AM EST by John Stossel
>
> USA Today reports that "green" energy is the popular new field at universities around the country:
>
The only green energy worth pursuing is nuclear.
noo b
Poetic Justice
> On Jan 2, 12:56 pm, "Eric Gisin" <er...@nospammail.net> wrote:
>> Has anyone seen a working hydrogen bus? Vancouver plans to use some for the Olympics.
>>
>> http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/12/29/fake-%E2%80%9Cgreen%E...
>>
>> December 29, 2009 11:45 AM EST by John Stossel
>>
>> USA Today reports that "green" energy is the popular new field at universities around the country:
Are they teaching how impractical it is.
--
Surfer
>
>Has anyone seen a working hydrogen bus?
>
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/greentransport/19527.asp
".......At the conclusion of the trial, the EcoBuses had travelled
approximately 258,000km, consumed over 46 tonnes of hydrogen and
carried over 320,000 passengers.
All participants of the trial agreed that the EcoBuses had performed
beyond expectation and by the end of the trial the buses had achieved
reliability similar to that of the conventional CNG buses. While there
were some difficulties with the reliability of the refuelling station,
this improved as the trial progressed....."
".......The LCA found that the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of the
fuel cell bus system ranked slightly worse than diesel and slightly
better than CNG. This was due to the method of hydrogen production
used in the trial. While the GWP profile of the diesel and CNG bus
systems were dominated by the operation phase (particularly tailpipe
emissions) the GWP for fuel cell bus systems was instead dominated by
the fuel production process (which involved the bi product of an oil
refinery process). Production of hydrogen from renewable sources would
have substantially lowered the GWP for the fuel cell buses, providing
them with a significant advantage over CNG and diesel vehicles....."
"......While hydrogen fuel cells have a number of advantages (ie
greatly reduced tail pipe emissions, greater energy efficiency,
improved fuel supply security and potentially reduced maintenance
costs) they are also currently much more expensive than conventional
technologies. Technological improvements and mass production of
hydrogen technologies will need to occur before hydrogen fuel cell
buses become economically competitive....."
Mauried
They arnt working now.
All have been withdrawn from service, and no more are being ordered.
Too expensive to run.
The most expensive public transport flop WA has ever undertaken.
The article also left out the unreliability and the overheating
problems of the fuel cells.
Surfer
It was a trial. As such the main purpose would be to collect data that
could contribute to future improvements. In that respect it seems
successful.
>
>The article also left out the unreliability and the overheating
>problems of the fuel cells.
>
Enthusiasts are tackling such problems
http://forums.alternative-energy-news.info/thread-54.html
I am sure solutions will eventually be found !
Peter Webb
"Surfer" <n...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:fke0k51l9lpr5pq2p...@4ax.com...
I see. The plan to use Hydrogen fuel cells in busses was a success, because
it showed that it was a stupid plan in the first place.
Dunno how much the whole thing cost, but I could of told them that for free.
Mauried
To make such a trial even relevant, the hydrogen needed to be obtained
from renewable sources, and the cost of building the renewable
sources factored into the costs of running the trial.
Getting the hydrogen from the Kwinana Oil refinery and then claiming
the busses were ghg clean , is like running an electric car from the
electricity generated by a Coal Fired Power station, and then claiming
the car is clean.
Surfer
<webbf...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Surfer wrote:
>>
>> It was a trial. As such the main purpose would be to collect data that
>> could contribute to future improvements. In that respect it seems
>> successful.
>>
>
>I see. The plan to use Hydrogen fuel cells in busses was a success, because
>it showed that it was a stupid plan in the first place.
>
I don't see anything stupid about participating in a such a trial.
By allowing problems to be identified, it would have contributed to
the development of this much improved generation.
Daimler debuts next-gen Citaro fuel cell bus in Hamburg, cuts fuel
consumption in half
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/17/daimler-debuts-next-gen-citaro-fuel-cell-bus-in-hamburg-half-th/
<Start extract>
Daimler this week unveiled the first of its new generation
Mercedes-Benz Citaro FuelCELL-Hybrid transit buses. Thirty of these
new buses will be going into service in 2010 with the first 10 going
to Hamburg Germany where previous-generation fuel cell buses have
already been in service for several years. The new buses use the
latest iteration of Daimler's fuel cell drive system which consists of
a modular stack design. By building the fuel cell stack in modules, it
can be scaled for different applications with the same hardware used
in the bus and the new series of B-class F-Cell cars. Twenty of the
fuel cell B-Classes will also be going to Hamburg for use by the
transit company.
The combination of the new stack design and a hybrid configuration
using lithium ion batteries allows the fuel cells to operate at a more
constant output with the batteries taking care of the transient
acceleration needs. The result is that fuel consumption is cut in half
compared to the older buses and the new buses have a range of 155
miles. The bus deployment is part of the Clean Energy Partnership
which will see four new public hydrogen filling stations constructed
in Hamburg.
<End extract>